Classical double bass players
Sam Cross
read this newsgroup?
--
Sam Cross,
Professor of Music (Double Bass)
James Madison University, Harrisonburg, VA
DRLUHTA
classical music history and my main instrument is the piano. I took up
the bass about four years ago on a dare from a friend cause I saw a group
of country musicians playing and wondered how they were all together
without any music or training...Anyway, I now play electric bass in a big
swing band and other little ondds and ends, musicals-in the pit and such.
I am trying to develope into a good reader at this instrument. I have a
'66 Gibson EB, a Fender Jazz and a Gibson Victory fretless. I am working
at the fretless and plan to bring it on line with the big band in '96.
But, as a classical musician, I enjoy reading the bass newsgroup
very much and learn alot. I haven't dared venture into classical bass
playing because that is another life-time of work and I just broke 41
years. I'll be happy to play big-band and rock and blues and some jazz
well, on the electric instrument.
Any other cross overs out there in electric bass land, from the
"classical" world?
DrJazzBass
classical, and i find it's a great way to keep my technique up.
drjazz(classical)bass
Mike Smith P125
orchestra.
Here's my story: a few years ago, at 40, I took the plunge and bought an
old Engelhardt plywood 3/4 off the net for $500. I took lessons for a
couple of years and advanced not very far when chronic pains in both
elbows forced me to lay off. I picked up an electric and play on Sundays
in the church choir.
This year there wasn't enough interest in 7th grade for a strings class at
school, so my daughter joined a local youth orchestra. They didn't have a
bass player, so my wife and daughter volunteered me.
So I've been stretching and icing, and taking a regular diet of aspirin and
ibuprophen trying to build up my chops.
We're playing William Grant Still's "Dances of Panama" and Vivaldi's
"4 seasons" in a couple of weeks. Both pose their own difficulties to
a player of meager abilities.
In Vivaldi, the bass really is a doubel (to the cellos), and the music is
pretty continuous and regular. Once I admit that I'm only going to play half
of what the cellos do in the next few weeks, it's not so hard to keep up.
Still is why they absolutely needed the bass, however. Providing the
pulse for the whole orchestra is a little daunting, but within my experience.
The real difficulty for me are the embellishments - those places where
after 6, 8, 12, or more measures of rest, the bass jumps in after 2 and half
beats with a couple of notes and then lies back for some other odd moment.
I'm embarrassed to admit that counting is silence and jumping in like this
is very hard for me.
Anyway, the reason they need the bass in Still is that the bass is doubling
someone else's part only rarely. Much more common is that it, along with
every one else, is playing fragments around the beat, which only emerges
when all the parts come together. Much more challenging than church choir
charts, but pretty cool when it works.
Playing in a youth orhestra is quite humbling. If I am not the poorest
instrumentalist in the orchestra, my competition is hiding. I am surely
the weakest principal. Whereas I have never played in an orchestra, most
of these kids are returning to this one, where they played these pieces
last year.
There is one other parent in the second violin section. While I'm struggling
to figure out which movement we've just finished, he's pointing out a
misprint in the score. I feel like Homer Simpson.
In short, I love it!
mps
Melanie Payne
studying double bass at Eastman School of Music, and I find scanning
this group very interesting. I am hoping to learn more about the bass
and music world, and if I read anything I think my son would be
interested in, I could send it on to him. I hope more classical people
do get involved with this group though.
Paul Mitchell
Kirk Hilse
> Any other cross overs out there in electric bass land, from the
>"classical" world?
Check this out.
I play the bass mandolin for the Seattle Mandolin Orchestra.
This is a 5 1/2 foot-tall 1913 Gibson mando-bass. Luckily, it
only has four strings, not the usual 8 string mandolin setup.
I started out life young as a violinist, so I got really good at
sight reading. Later, I switched to electric bass. About 1990,
these guys called me to sit in with them, and now I play with
them on-demand. They call me up 1-2 weeks before the gig,
so I can come in and sight-read the bass lines once or twice
through before going on stage. Not only that, but the owner
sewed up a custom-fitting soft case. THIS TURNS HEADS
at gigs like the Seattle Folklife Festival, the Italian Heritage
Festival, et al....
Kirk Hilse
Band -- Time In Trees (Psycho Funk Hippie Metal)
Work -- Spectral, Inc.
Robert Gargiullo
>
Any other cross overs out there in electric bass land, from the
> "classical" world?
Absolutely. My training is in piano but I picked up the bass in 1963
and I haven't put it down since.
B.
Rolf Hanson
<Melani...@ms1.mankato.msus.edu> wrote:
I don't know where this thread started, but hey, I am a classical double
bass player, and I read this group, so hey hey hey.
Carl Christensen
God, your arms must be sore!
------
Carl Christensen /~~\_/~\ ,,, For music fun in Windows
E-mail: ca...@netaxs.com | #=#==========# | download alcomp11.zip
C/C++/FoxPro Consultant \__/~\_/ ``` at a popular FTP site!
Philadelphia, PA Obligatory WWW page --> <http://www.netaxs.com/~carl>
Bob Comarow
In the most stupid move of my life, I sold my upright. So, I'm looking
for a great carved upright. Must have super sweet sound in the upper
registers and roar in the bass.
Send me email at
bcom...@bb.iu.net
Mccas929
yes, i am very interested in double bass, technique, repair, setup etc.
Currently own and maintain 3 german double basses. Playing all types and
ready to converse. please contact me!
bob mccaskey
John L. Fritz
TV.
No, that's not it. I'm actually an electric bassist who is very
interested in expanding my horizons by making the switch to
double bass. I'd like to hear from anyone who can give me advice
re: appropriate beginning instrument, approaches to learning,
etc.
In the last few years, I've become a more dedicated bass player,
as opposed to the least talented guitar player in a rock band
(although I'm still that too). I expect that the cross-over into
the classical world will do me good in terms of developing music
theory skills. I would be interested in developing a
correspondence with any of you classical bassists who could help
guide me along.
Thanks,
John
10630,16...@compuserve.com
Thomas R. Frank
fun to mess around on a DBL bass, I would never even consider myself a
musician while holding one. The difference between stand-up and electric
are huge...In the December 94 issue of Bass PLayer (before they went
crazy) they printed one of the best articles I have ever read on the
issue of stand-up vs. electric. Ron Carter and Anthony Jackson do both
instruments huge justice, but agree on the differences. If you really
want to expand your classical techniques, do it on your electric!! This
is how Stu Hamm started...... :)tommy(:
Paul Mitchell
>Theory: I'd personally love it if someone could suggest where to go
> in theroy once you can read bass & treble clefs, and the basic
> sclaes and chords. I'd like to know more about arranging.
There are two directions you can go. One is higher level theory and analysis.
Studying classic form is very useful in thinking about approaching
performing music, no matter WHAT you play. Analysis can be interesting,
but the esoteric levels (Schenkerian reduction) end up being pretty
useless mumbo-jumbo, IMHO.
The better direction is composition, on paper, for different groupings of
instruments. Here's where you can apply the basic kinds of theory to
aesthetic problems, including arranging.
Bob Comarow
Playing the double bass will open up many new worlds. Making a spruce top
sing with a bow is a very beautiful and spiritual thing. Real wood singing.
If I were starting, I wish I were trained in the newer techniques, where
one basically plays the upright like a big cello. It is well described
in Mark Morton's books. There are many advantages, but since I started
from the Simandle school, I never could make the adjustment.
Find a real teacher.
And for those that scoff at the parts, start checking out the bass
lines from Bach on up. They did really neat things. When you
get to Ludwig, well, that man was one wild bass part maker. Last
year I played Country Dance, a short lesser known piece, and my
reaction was "he did *that* with *those* notes". And this stuff
will transform itself to the rest of your music.
Then, join a community orchestra. The colors and sounds of all those
accoustic instruments will be like a pallete of new flavors. The
sounds of cellos and basses, sometimes with the bassoons playing a
figure together will be unlike anything you've ever experienced.
Good luck
LydiaN463
from the horn section, where I've played for >30 years (I have a lot of
experience in counting rests). I read this group only occasionally (about
once a month) because there's so little about classical playing. I took up
the bass a year ago at age 45, wanting to play some string chamber music,
and also wanting an instrument more relaxing to play (yes, it really is).
So now I study with a good teacher and have fun playing in a college
orchestra - so far only 20th century music; for Mahler & Schumann it's
back to the horn section.
Question: to the person who mentioned the newer method of playing the bass
like a big cello in contrast to the Simandl method - how? Do you tune the
strings in 4ths? And to what pitches? I recently saw a cellist play a bass
with the 2 upper strings tuned normally, and the 2 below that in 4ths. He
didn't recommend it, however.
Lydia Newcombe
Claremont, CA
Bob Comarow
LydiaN463 <lydi...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>Question: to the person who mentioned the newer method of playing the bass
>like a big cello in contrast to the Simandl method - how? Do you tune the
>strings in 4ths? And to what pitches? I recently saw a cellist play a bass
>with the 2 upper strings tuned normally, and the 2 below that in 4ths. He
>didn't recommend it, however.
>
>Lydia Newcombe
>Claremont, CA
Lydia,
No, tuning is normal, but the technique is sitting in a lower chair
with the bass back like a cello. There is much less stress
on the wrist and more consistency. If you look at the books
by Mark Morton, the technique is clearly outlined. Also,
they use all 4 fingers. But, tuning is the same.
I wish I started with this technique. It is clearly much
healthier for the human hand and wrist.
Note that Ludwig Striker has yet another point of view, with
the thumb behind the first finger and the weight of the arm helping.
This I could adopt to, but not the cello style technique. But the
kids coming up playing like a cello have a huge advantage.
Bob
Mccas929
I have done the same thing, and find double bass to be a really great
outlet for creativity.
Find a good bass, use spirocore strings, search for a good pickup, get
your bow re-haired by the best, use pops rosin at first, then the
euro-stuff that costs $20.00. play sitting on a stool, practice till your
hands are killing you. Buy three sets of expensive strings , then go to
step two.
Play at community theatre for free, forces you to practice till your hands
hurt.
regs.
bob mccaskey
Paul Mitchell
>with the bass back like a cello.
My legs don't spread that wide, Bob. 8-).
>There is much less stress
>on the wrist and more consistency. If you look at the books
>by Mark Morton, the technique is clearly outlined.
It SOUNDS reasonable. I don't use a very high stool when I'm seated. Many
people don't know how to sit properly, BTW.
> Also, they use all 4 fingers. But, tuning is the same.
Most people cannot play in tune in the lower positions with four fingers.
>I wish I started with this technique. It is clearly much
>healthier for the human hand and wrist.
1-2-4 is a more natural approach in the lower positions. It takes better
advantage of the symmetry and muscualr abilities of the hand.
>Note that Ludwig Striker has yet another point of view, with
>the thumb behind the first finger and the weight of the arm helping.
Ludwig Streicher is a huge man, built like a bear with a VERY big sound.
He uses a lot of strength, which he naturally possesses. I have seen students
(not his in particular) who were injured because their teachers were natural
athletes and not sensitive to bad playing habits.
It IS the weight of the arm that stops the strings, BTW.
>This I could adopt to, but not the cello style technique. But the
>kids coming up playing like a cello have a huge advantage.
We'll see.
Mike Smith P125
Harry DeBusk <hde...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>One comment on double-bass position: I found that one of the keys for
>me was making sure the instrument was at proper height. I'm forever
>seeing photos of players that usually have the bass too low, causing
>them to hunch over and *kill* the spine. Pains me just to look at
>them. Also messes with proper hand positioning. I guess my teacher
>told me this - I don't remember - the nut should be at least as high as
>the eyebrows, preferably mid-forehead. this forces one to stand erect
>with decent posture, which helps with supporting the bass and standing
>for prolonged periods. Something about the necessity of reaching back
>for first position being beneficial for technique and general comfort.
>Worked for me.
>
Funny, I have the opposite problem. At 5'3" (on tiptoe), my 3/4 bass at its
lowest is already towering over me. And I have to raise it some to be able
to bow far enough down the strings. So my setup is always a compromise between
the reach of my right and left hand. I also lean the monster back more than
most.
It's always something.
mps
Paul Mitchell
BTW, I've been told that Gary Karr is a total natural - he sounded good
from day one. Insecure about his third finger? Gimme a break.
Simandl may not be the last word anymore, but it is still a solid
foundation to get started. Once your flying, you should be able to make
your own technical decisions.
>In article <44jaq2$n...@cc.iu.net>, Bob Comarow <bcom...@bb.iu.net> wrote:
>>
>>If I were starting, I wish I were trained in the newer techniques, where
>>one basically plays the upright like a big cello. It is well described
>>in Mark Morton's books. There are many advantages, but since I started
>>from the Simandle school, I never could make the adjustment.
>>
>Sure to provoke controversy: Karr Talk in the latest ISB (Spring/Summer 95 -
>it's out early this year!). Here's the first paragraph:
> Yes, I studied assiduously Books I and II, the Etudes and his
> Gradus ad Parnassum, but I have spent the last 40 years trying
> to eschew all that they taught me. Simandl has been my constant
> nightmare, and I doubt if I will ever recover from the damage
> he inflicted on my early development. To this day, I am insecure
> about the use of my third finger, and I blame old Franz for all
> my agony.
>And here's the last:
> There now exists a plethora of good books with better fingering
> systems (i.e., Tom Gale's books, Knut Guettler's method, and
> Francois Rabbath's books to name a few). I predict that the
> Simandl method will be obsolete in the next century, and it may
> be put out of business by a greatly improved tuning system!
> But that's another story...
>I only know about Simandl through hearsay, but I know others in this group
>have recommended him, so I'll just step back now and listen.
>mps
100612
cro...@vax1.acs.jmu.edu (Sam Cross) wrote:
>Are there any classical double bass players, or people interested that
>read this newsgroup?
I am ( was?) a classical double bass player, studied at a german music
Highschool six years ago. Now, I'm teaching double bass at a common music
school, where I have only 3(!) dbl.bass students, but over 50 in teaching
electric bass, piano and keyboards.
Although I'm interesting in jazz with the string bass, I unfortunately
neglect the classical side. That means, playing Dittersdorf, Marcello,
Dragonetti and Koussevitzky (parts of my examination) is now a real
challenge for me.