Opinions on Pipes (Naill, MacMurchie, Gibson, Shepherd)
Jesiharis
Naill, MacMurchie, Gibson, and Shepherd. I'll be getting a set with a blackwood
chanter, and they will be used for both band and solo (I'm a beginner).
I would appreciate your opinions on the matter. What I'm interested in are
firsthand experiences with pipes, not rumors from the local pub. And, if it
isn't too much trouble, be descriptive--it would be much more helpful than,
"buy X."
Thanks, Jesi
beginn...@my-deja.com
This is a bogus post, just ignore him/her. Just another attempt to
start up the age old debate of whose best. Try sending private email
and see what happens...
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
John Mitchell
<beginn...@my-deja.com> wrote
> start up the age old debate of whose best. Try sending private email
> and see what happens...
Geeze Bill, trying to send someone your worthless opinion again!
-----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
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beginn...@my-deja.com
"John Mitchell" <sunn...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> <beginn...@my-deja.com> wrote
> > start up the age old debate of whose best. Try sending private email
> > and see what happens...
>
> Geeze Bill, trying to send someone your worthless opinion again!
>
Well since you opened your big, alcohol soaked mouth I'll chime in here.
BUY KRON KRON KRON KRON KRON KRON KRON KRON KRON KRON KRON KRON KRON
Because your short changing yourself by not adding that brand to the
mix. Now the above poster will tell you they suck, but he's never seen
or heard a properly set up set of Krons, I on the other hand have.
He'll tell you his Gibsons sound great, but he could set up Paki junk
to sound just as good.
So you can listen to someone who owns a set, or listen to stupid rumors.
dnimmo
John Mitchell wrote in message <3892f7f4$1...@127.0.0.1>...
>
>
><beginn...@my-deja.com> wrote
>> start up the age old debate of whose best. Try sending private email
>> and see what happens...
>
>Geeze Bill, trying to send someone your worthless opinion again!
Exactly John........besides......anyone that feels that Naill, MacM, Gibson
and Shepherd are in the same league.............what's the matter with
Kintail, Hardie, Piob Mhor, plastic Dunbars.....etc.....etc.........dare I
suggest they refer themselves to the p&d article ! ! ? ? ?
David........stir.......stir.....
Tom Steele
<beginn...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:86v5os$7f8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <3892f7f4$1...@127.0.0.1>,
> "John Mitchell" <sunn...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > <beginn...@my-deja.com> wrote
> > > start up the age old debate of whose best. Try sending private email
> > > and see what happens...
> >
> > Geeze Bill, trying to send someone your worthless opinion again!
> >
>
Royce Lerwick
Of that lot, NAILL!!!!!!!!!
Don't buy the chanter, get a Shepherd chanter, Mark II--NOT THE NEW
MARK III.
There. Problem solved.
Royce
beginn...@my-deja.com
Good point!
My reason for trying to email him/her privately was to advise them not
to limit themselves JUST to those choices. I think anyones whose hung
around here awhile should recognize this post that shows up every other
week or so, just so he/she/it can sit there laughing at us arguing over
which is better. If you check posting historys it's always an AOL
address with the same stupid question, but in a different form. This is
the second or third time I've tried responding to this question
privately, but I get a message saying "this account is not accepting
email".
And now I went and got myself into another arguement with the "offical
NG lunkhead", which I promised myself I wouldn't do when I returned
here. So I'll let him have the last word and go back to ignoring him
again. Sorry to everyone for getting into that again..
Iain Sherwood
wee Baggy's back on the steroid/Prozac colonics again?Sounds like it. Only
two weeks of relative quiet, and the Blabmeister's back flapping his gums.
He needs more time in detox....
IS
Lindsay Kirkwood
Shepherd,Sinclair( Band)
Naill's would be my choice for the drones!
A lot depends on your budget.
BOL.
Lindsay Kirkwood
beginn...@my-deja.com
After the total farce your starting with "Compana" you ACTUALLY have
the nerve to mention flapping gums? Your just massaging your overly-
inflated (like the rest of you) ego.
STEPHEN PANNONE
I love my a/b Booths!! nice set for the money...
steve
--
-----------------------------------------------------
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/
Jesiharis <jesi...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000129003815...@ng-cd1.aol.com...
> I'm going to be buying a set of pipes. The four names that I'm left with
are
> Naill, MacMurchie, Gibson, and Shepherd. I'll be getting a set with a
blackwood
> chanter, and they will be used for both band and solo (I'm a beginner).
>
> I would appreciate your opinions on the matter. What I'm interested in are
> firsthand experiences with pipes, not rumors from the local pub. And, if
it
> isn't too much trouble, be descriptive--it would be much more helpful
than,
> "buy X."
>
> Thanks, Jesi
John Mitchell
> > <beginn...@my-deja.com> wrote
>
> Well since you opened your big, alcohol soaked mouth I'll chime in here.
> BUY KRON KRON KRON KRON KRON KRON KRON KRON KRON KRON KRON KRON KRON
> Because your short changing yourself by not adding that brand to the
> mix
Bill, I believe the poster has narrowed it down to those 4 makers.
Is it any wonder that he didn't select Kron, as you are the only
self appointed spokesman for that company.
That's not saying much after I personally heard your setup
which would pass for an ailing duck with no asshole.
Lets just say that your ability to judge tone is no better than
a blindman trying to judge a skating contest.
Ron Bowen
factors or circumstances, this is my advice and reasons.
Buy a new or used Dunbar polypenco bagpipe and play it for two years.
1) They are virtually indestructible. Jesi, this is not intended to demean
you or anyone else (or Dunbar's bagpipe), however ANY blackwood pipe, new or
old, is at considerable risk in the hands of a beginner, especially in North
America. Chances are that you will abuse the pipe because of your
inexperience i.e. overhemping, letting it get too wet, letting it get too
dry, letting it get too hot, letting it get too cold, etc. etc. etc.
Dunbar's polypenco will withstand all of this, and more! It will survive a
multitude of your "sins" and still perform admirably.
2) It will be years ( 2 to 5, if you're lucky) to be able to "hear" a pipe
well enough to tune it, let alone distinguish between woods, man-made
materials, or makes of pipes. Use the next two years to develop your ear.
As you do, listen to all of the various makes of pipes and talk with those
who own them. Play as many of them as you are able to.
If you do this, you won't need to be asking a worldwide newsgroup what
bagpipe to buy. You'll KNOW what bagpipe to buy! and that's a whole lot
better!
Good piping and good luck!
Ringo
Robert Barker
"Ron Bowen" <Ron_...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:_8Nk4.14863$l82.2...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> There are so many factors to consider. Without knowing any of your
specific
> factors or circumstances, this is my advice and reasons.
>
> Buy a new or used Dunbar polypenco bagpipe and play it for two years.
This advice makes me wonder, how many out there are still playing the first
set
of pipes they ever owned? Is it common for people to "trade up" after a
couple of years
on the pipes? I personally bought the cheapest set of pipes I could find at
the time since
I was not playing yet and knew nothing about pipes (Thank God it was the
British Shop I was dealing with and not some Paki retailer!!!). This fall
with about 2 years playing experience I traded them in for a nicer looking
and sounding set. I'm thinking that this
is probably pretty common among pipers and it would have a pretty big impact
on how much money to spend on your first set of pipes.
Bob B.
Royce Lerwick
wrote:
>There are so many factors to consider. Without knowing any of your specific
>factors or circumstances, this is my advice and reasons.
>
>Buy a new or used Dunbar polypenco bagpipe and play it for two years.
With all due respect, what a load of rubbish. I can't even bring
myself to respond to the expanded drivel that follows. If you want to
get plastic drones, fine, but it's got nothing to do with
indestructibility or beginners being too stupid or unworthy to play
real pipes.
Buy any good set of pipes, wood or otherwise in your budget. If you
happen to get a good deal on Naills get those. I won't pimp my
personal favorite just now, but the point is, even Peter Crisler's
plastic drones are better than Dunbars, and would never let a beginner
buy even substandard plastic pipes just because, as you constantly
assert, he's an accident waiting to happen and unworthy of a good set.
Royce
Royce Lerwick
<rba...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>
>"Ron Bowen" <Ron_...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>news:_8Nk4.14863$l82.2...@news20.bellglobal.com...
>> There are so many factors to consider. Without knowing any of your
>specific
>> factors or circumstances, this is my advice and reasons.
>>
>> Buy a new or used Dunbar polypenco bagpipe and play it for two years.
>
>This advice makes me wonder, how many out there are still playing the first
>set
>of pipes they ever owned? Is it common for people to "trade up" after a
>couple of years
>on the pipes?
Yes, but only because you finally discover what a worthless, painfully
debilitating set of crap pipes you bought in the first place.
>I personally bought the cheapest set of pipes I could find at
>the time since
>I was not playing yet and knew nothing about pipes (Thank God it was the
>British Shop I was dealing with and not some Paki retailer!!!). This fall
>with about 2 years playing experience I traded them in for a nicer looking
>and sounding set.
And you found out it didn't cost very much more for a good set in the
first place.
>I'm thinking that this
>is probably pretty common among pipers and it would have a pretty big impact
>on how much money to spend on your first set of pipes.
That and who cons them into thinking they can get by on cheapo pipes
for a few years. It's a self-fullfilling prophecy. Of course you're
going to trade-up in a few years. You've already assured that with the
crap pipes you bought. The problem is, at that point all you can do is
lose money in the trade, because the resale value is nil. A good set
of pipes can at least hold their own over a few years on not lose
much.
Royce
Paula & Takeshi
Paula
Royce Lerwick wrote:
> On 29 Jan 2000 05:38:15 GMT, jesi...@aol.com (Jesiharis) wrote:
>
> >I'm going to be buying a set of pipes. The four names that I'm left with are
> >Naill, MacMurchie, Gibson, and Shepherd. I'll be getting a set with a blackwood
> >chanter, and they will be used for both band and solo (I'm a beginner).
> >
> >I would appreciate your opinions on the matter. What I'm interested in are
> >firsthand experiences with pipes, not rumors from the local pub. And, if it
> >isn't too much trouble, be descriptive--it would be much more helpful than,
> >"buy X."
>
Ron Bowen
dancing and self-promoting on this thread. The first couple years on the
pipes is a time of exponential growth in understanding what the pipes are
all about.
A simple matter of hemping pipes properly can mean the difference between a
bagpipe that is comfortable to play and one that is impossible to play. It
can also mean the difference between stocks and drones splitting under the
pressure of swelling hemp or not. In my workshops, I usually devote one
block of time to doing a thorough examination of everyone's bagpipe. It is
a real disappointment when I point out hairline cracks in stocks and drones
that have occurred because someone didn't know better. Obviously this is a
painful and expensive lesson.
Those first couple of years are also a time when you start to understand the
sounds that a bagpipe makes and how they blend together to create those
beautiful rich harmonics that we all love. You can't begin to understand
this from a spectator's perspective. You have to become intimate with the
bagpipe. You have to experiment with your bagpipe and manipulate it to
produce different sounds. After a period of time, you will come to
understand these sounds better and you will be able to distinguish that
which pleases you from that which does not.
I have said before that there are no answers on this NG, only clues to
answers. I really have nothing at stake here and if someone feels that they
know better than me..... well, perhaps they do. What I am promoting here is
that newer pipers find out the answers for themselves.
Parting comment. It is interesting that some would chose to expose their
ignorance by trashing this instrument or that instrument or by slamming this
one's opinion or that one's opinion. Noel Slagle played a Dunbar polypenco
in Clan MacFarlane for many years, and no one knew. In NRP, last summer we
played 4 sets of Dunbar polypenco drones (and one set of Dunbar blackwood
drones) at the worlds, in a downpour, and placed 2nd and 3rd in piping....
as judged by Bob Shepherd and Iain MacLellan respectively (and we weren't
playing Shepherd chanters). It is somewhat curious that we have a regular
and vocal few (on this NG), who pretend to know more than those who are
actually on the competition field, standing in front of the best piping
judges in the world. It might be possible that these pretenders are doing
nothing more than indulging their fantasies. Bob, this comment obviously is
not directed at you.
Good piping
Ringo
Robert Barker <rba...@mediaone.net> wrote in message
news:VPOk4.50697$zU5.6...@wbnws01.ne.mediaone.net...
>
> "Ron Bowen" <Ron_...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:_8Nk4.14863$l82.2...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > There are so many factors to consider. Without knowing any of your
> specific
> > factors or circumstances, this is my advice and reasons.
> >
> > Buy a new or used Dunbar polypenco bagpipe and play it for two years.
>
> This advice makes me wonder, how many out there are still playing the
first
> set
> of pipes they ever owned? Is it common for people to "trade up" after a
> couple of years
> on the pipes? I personally bought the cheapest set of pipes I could find
at
> the time since
> I was not playing yet and knew nothing about pipes (Thank God it was the
> British Shop I was dealing with and not some Paki retailer!!!). This fall
> with about 2 years playing experience I traded them in for a nicer looking
> and sounding set. I'm thinking that this
> is probably pretty common among pipers and it would have a pretty big
impact
> on how much money to spend on your first set of pipes.
>
> Bob B.
>
>
beginn...@my-deja.com
"John Mitchell" <sunn...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> > > <beginn...@my-deja.com> wrote
> >
> > BUY KRON KRON KRON KRON KRON KRON KRON KRON KRON KRON KRON KRON KRON
> > Because your short changing yourself by not adding that brand to the
> > mix
>
> self appointed spokesman for that company.
everyone from Ringo and Royce, down to beginners like myself. Let's not
forget Wille McCallum, oh yes and then there's one of your old
instructors carrying around a set to his workshops to show them off...
Guess you'll just ignore all that to bolster your weak position on the
subject.
> That's not saying much after I personally heard your setup
> which would pass for an ailing duck with no asshole.
Now your just trying to mislead everyone with a HUGE LIE! Because you
knew well ahead of time that my chanter reed was cracked, weak and
useless, and that my bass drone reed had bit the dust too.
Did you make any effort to try to get a good sound out of them? NO!
Did you even play them? NO!
Did you try any other reeds or manipulation on them? NO!
Did you even try to tune the drones? NO!
Were you interested in giving them a fair listen? NO!
You just wanted to pronounce them "garbage" to the NG because your not
a big enough man to admit when your wrong. But when I change my opinion
on something you jump all over me saying I'm two-faced and stupid. You
should try "growing and learning" sometime, it makes a better person
out of you.
You also said recently you had heard another set of Krons that
were "poorly set up" and proclaimed them garbage.
I ask everyone here, Does that sound like a fair opinion?
>
> Lets just say that your ability to judge tone is no better than
> a blindman trying to judge a skating contest.
If that's true or not isn't the issue, since everyone whose heard them
from a 40+ year veteran and his students, our instructor 25+ years, my
brother-in-law whose was a professional piper for 10 years (bagpiper
restaurant in Rhode Island) and is a 30+ year competitor/player, and
our band members, have all commented about the wonderful workmanship,
and beautiful sound.
I think all these peoples "HONEST" opinions make your nonsensical
opinion worthless to this NG, and the world in general. The NG has
known you for far too long to take your opinions on Krons, Marks rocket
reeds, or any other new improvement that comes along, to take you too
seriously.
So therefore, I am better qualified to judge some things than you are,
because I go into with an open mind and heart, and with enough honesty
to say "I was wrong" If that proves to be the case. You on the other
hand will never be that fair out of fear of being called weak.
Cheers!
beginn...@my-deja.com
"Ron Bowen" <Ron_...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Buy a new or used Dunbar polypenco bagpipe and play it for two years.
> America. Chances are that you will abuse the pipe because of your
> inexperience i.e. overhemping, letting it get too wet, letting it get
too
> dry, letting it get too hot, letting it get too cold, etc. etc. etc.
> Dunbar's polypenco will withstand all of this, and more! It will
survive a
> multitude of your "sins" and still perform admirably.
Well if he/she was interested wouldn't a AB set that's guaranteed for
two years be as good Ron? Gee let's see, who guarantees their pipes for
two whole years... Naw I won't say it LOL
beginn...@my-deja.com
I honestly am kind of baffled by your advice too. Dunbars were $600 at
last check, and you can get AB's with a two year warranty for $900. But
the AB's have a much higher resale value after two years. What is the
guarantee on Dunbars? (Honest question, since I don't know.) Dunbars
maybe easy to disguise when played by a pro, and I admit to having a
dislike for plastic in any part (either chanter or drone) but for the
difference in money and what you can get back in resale value it hardly
seems like a wise choice. This is of course from a beginers eyeview.
Bill
In article <3893cad7...@news.mn.mediaone.net>,
pmle...@wavetech.net (Royce Lerwick) wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Jan 2000 02:15:22 GMT, "Ron Bowen" <Ron_...@sympatico.ca>
> wrote:
>
> >There are so many factors to consider. Without knowing any of your
specific
> >factors or circumstances, this is my advice and reasons.
> >
> >Buy a new or used Dunbar polypenco bagpipe and play it for two years.
>
> With all due respect, what a load of rubbish. I can't even bring
> myself to respond to the expanded drivel that follows. If you want to
> get plastic drones, fine, but it's got nothing to do with
> indestructibility or beginners being too stupid or unworthy to play
> real pipes.
>
> Buy any good set of pipes, wood or otherwise in your budget. If you
> happen to get a good deal on Naills get those. I won't pimp my
> personal favorite just now, but the point is, even Peter Crisler's
> plastic drones are better than Dunbars, and would never let a beginner
> buy even substandard plastic pipes just because, as you constantly
> assert, he's an accident waiting to happen and unworthy of a good set.
>
> Royce
>
Chris Hamilton
<rba...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>This advice makes me wonder, how many out there are still playing the first
>set of pipes they ever owned? Is it common for people to "trade up" after a
>couple of years on the pipes?
I'm on my 4th set of pipes.
The first were brand-new Grainger & Campbells, full ivory, purchased
from The British Shop in 1972 for the princely sum of $300. I played
them from the untuneable stage as a kid beginner to the top of Grade 1
solos. Not with the original chanter, of course, as Grainger chatners
were suited best for keeping candles steady on the nightstand. They
always had a problematic bass drone - the middle joint was unevenly
bored. After getting a replacement part from Dunbar in the mid-80s,
the tone of the drones really improved. That set is now being played
by my fiance and produces a nice pleasant sound.
Before heading into the Open ranks, in 1979 I bought a set of
Alexander pipes (made in London in the 1930s or so I think). Nice
looking set - full ivory with silver slides. Unfortunately, they were
not a great set - drones tended to be flattish. Only played them for a
year before selling them off.
In late 1980 I got a set of 1950s Hendersons - only imitation ivory
but a real great sound. Played them for five years, had no plans to
replace them ...
But in the fall of 1985 Jimmy McIntosh sent me a set of 1910-ish
MacDougalls to try. Though I wasn't in the market for drones, I
decided to humour him. Well, they blew me away and I've never looked
back! I sold the Hendersons within the week and been playing The
Mighty MacDougalls ever since. A few cracks and replacements, but the
old warhorse is still going strong.
So, the short of it is, I still have my original pipes, they're still
played regularly, but not by me. Upgrading as you go is a common
practice.
Chris
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chris Hamilton -- Tone...@erols.com
City of Washington Pipe Band
http://toneczar.freeservers.com/
Ron Bowen
if I could bring myself to respond to him at all. By referring to my
comments as "rubbish" he has afforded them a credibility beyond my own
abilities and reputation. You know... "One man's trash is another man's
treasure." If Royce considers my comments to be "rubbish" then someone out
there is sure to find value in them.
Plain and simple, Bill, I've seen too much out there over my 30 years in
this game. Even in your own recent post to John Mitchell: "chanter reed was
cracked, weak and useless, and that my bass drone reed had bit the dust."
This admission provides us with clues as to what else we might find.
Honestly, Bill, I doubt that you really know how to set up a bagpipe, or
tune a bagpipe, or the different subtle tonal qualities and performance of
one bagpipe over another. This is not an insult! This is just "where you
are" in your own personal evolution as a piper. My post was aimed at people
like you and was just saying "Look, based on my experience, until you figure
this out, this bagpipe (Dunbar polypenco) is a good bagpipe for you, and
here are my reasons." Now the rest is up to you.
For one person, this may be the "right" answer. For another person, it will
not be.
Good piping, Bill
Ringo
<beginn...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:871fi0$o1d$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
CelticLN4u
for. there is nothing wrong with polypenco, but he asked for an opinion on
blackwood . even if he is a beginner, lets give him the dirt on what he asked
for. for what it's worth , i like and play naill. the other brands are very
good though . dunbar poly is ok, but even for a beginner , you know that even
though the tone migh be near the same, the weight and feel of blacwood can't be
beat . if he has the money , let's give him the imfo he wants and let him make
that decision. cheers !
beginn...@my-deja.com
"Ron Bowen" <Ron_...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Bill, thank you for a tactful approach. Actually, I would thank
Royce too,
> if I could bring myself to respond to him at all.
By referring to my
> comments as "rubbish" he has afforded them a credibility beyond my own
> abilities and reputation. You know... "One man's trash is another
man's
> treasure." If Royce considers my comments to be "rubbish" then
someone out
> there is sure to find value in them.
>
> Plain and simple, Bill, I've seen too much out there over my 30 years
in
> this game. Even in your own recent post to John Mitchell: "chanter
reed was
> cracked, weak and useless, and that my bass drone reed had bit the
dust."
> This admission provides us with clues as to what else we might find.
Well let me expound on that. A week before those games they were
purring, then the bass drone strarted giving me trouble, so I attempted
to adjust it, but just having recieved the "EEZE's" a week earlier I
hadn't learned how sensetive they were, so I stuck in a cane bass reed,
which was not optimal, and pretty much bit the dust on thurs (we left
for the games on fri.) Then to add insult to injury I was putting in
our last chanter reed and chipped it on the side of the stock. That
happens to even the most seasoned pro's occasionally, right? With no
time left to order new reeds (they were already on order, but hadn't
arrived in time for Altamont) I was stuck with what I had. I wouldn't
even have taken them out if John hadn't asked to see them, but he was
informed ahead of time that they were far from their optimum sound. I
should've refused, and knowing what I do now I would've. I only took
them out assuming (stupid me) that he would try his reeds or other
reeds in them. You see at that time I was under the mistaken
impression that he really was genuinly interested in hearing a well set
up set of Krons, of course he wasn't. He heard a ful 10 secs of them.
> Honestly, Bill, I doubt that you really know how to set up a bagpipe,
or
> tune a bagpipe,
I readily admit I don't. Our instructor says it takes a couple of years
to develop that ear, and I don't doubt his word.
This is not an insult!
None taken. I know you didn't mean it as such.
This is just "where you are" in your own personal evolution as a
piper. My post was aimed at people
> like you and was just saying "Look, based on my experience, until you
figure
> this out, this bagpipe (Dunbar polypenco) is a good bagpipe for you,
and
> here are my reasons."
My thinking was just why buy plastic that you'll sell for half what you
paid, when you can buy AB that's guaranteed for two years, and can be
sold for three quarters what you paid before? Again, I hate plastic
anything...
>Now the rest is up to you.
>
> For one person, this may be the "right" answer. For another person,
it will
> not be.
>
> Good piping, Bill
> Ringo
Jesiharis
about these four pipemakers and their pipes.
The fact of the matter is, I am under the tutalage of a reputable instructor,
so I'm not going at this alone. I have my instructor's opinion, the opinions of
my bandmates, and I would like the opinions of this diverse group.
Ron--is this the Ron of "TakeCare"--would you still recommend the Polypenco for
a beginner under close instruction? I would imagine that my instructor would be
adjusting my pipes until I had the knowledge to do so. Also, if this is the
author, are you planning any workshops in the New York/New England area?
The truth is, I would prefer to educate myself to the point that I could take
care of a really good set of wooden pipes, and I intend to do so.
Thanks again for the comments. Information about the four pipemakers and their
pipes would be appreciated.
Sincerely
Jesi
Robert Barker
> >specific
> >> factors or circumstances, this is my advice and reasons.
> >>
> >> Buy a new or used Dunbar polypenco bagpipe and play it for two years.
> >
first
> >set
> >of pipes they ever owned? Is it common for people to "trade up" after a
> >couple of years
> >on the pipes?
>
> debilitating set of crap pipes you bought in the first place.
I prefer to think of it in terms of beginning to figure out what you want
out
of your pipes and finding a set that is more suited to your goals. Of
course,
your comments are probably quite true in some cases... ;-)
> >I personally bought the cheapest set of pipes I could find at
> >the time since
> >I was not playing yet and knew nothing about pipes (Thank God it was the
> >British Shop I was dealing with and not some Paki retailer!!!). This
fall
> >with about 2 years playing experience I traded them in for a nicer
looking
> >and sounding set.
>
> And you found out it didn't cost very much more for a good set in the
> first place.
About $600 US, allowing for a trade in on the old pipes.
> >I'm thinking that this
> >is probably pretty common among pipers and it would have a pretty big
impact
> >on how much money to spend on your first set of pipes.
>
> That and who cons them into thinking they can get by on cheapo pipes
> for a few years. It's a self-fullfilling prophecy. Of course you're
> going to trade-up in a few years. You've already assured that with the
> crap pipes you bought. The problem is, at that point all you can do is
> lose money in the trade, because the resale value is nil. A good set
> of pipes can at least hold their own over a few years on not lose
> much.
Yes, well luckily Ian sold me a reputable brand of ABW "student" model
pipes
(plain turned, wood mounts etc.) and I was able to get within a few hundred
dollars of what I paid for them on a trade-in. They were playable and had
decent
sound for what I was able to produce.
I agree with your point, Royce, and was not advocating the purchase of
"cheapo"
pipes to get you by for a few years. I only stated my particular situation
as an
illustration. Sorry for the confusion!
> Royce
John Mitchell
> > > > <beginn...@my-deja.com> wrote
> Lies! There are a dozen or more here that have spoken up for Krons,
> everyone from Ringo and Royce, down to beginners like myself. Let's not
> forget Wille McCallum,
Lets set the record straight here for everyone, first Willie McCallum
does not play Kron pipes. Personally I have nothing against Kron as
their just one of 20 new makers on the market, but they still have
not proven themselves in the maket place. Oh sure they can send
or give away thier product to recognized names, but those players
are still playing their original setups.
THIS PART I FIND INTERESTING, here you write:
> knew well ahead of time that my chanter reed was cracked, weak and
> useless, and that my bass drone reed had bit the dust too.
THEN YOU WROTE THIS WHICH MADE ME LAUGH!
> If that's true or not isn't the issue, since everyone whose heard them
> from a 40+ year veteran........ our band members, have all commented
> about the wonderful workmanship, and beautiful sound.
Beautiful sound! If they made that comment, they either don't
know what their talking about or thier just being nice to you, but
I think the latter is true. If your going around with a setup like
yours, your definetly not doing kron any favours.
> I think all these peoples "HONEST" opinions make your nonsensical
> opinion worthless to this NG, and the world in general. The NG has
> known you for far too long to take your opinions on Krons, Marks rocket
> reeds, or any other new improvement that comes along, to take you too
> seriously.
Lets face facts Bill, I've been at this game 30 plus years, when ever
someone or something new comes along, of course people are going to
ask questions and ask for proof, just like any smart consumer would do.
To me their just a vendor trying to sell their wares, their in it to make
money, so the burden of proof is on them to prove their product.
To date, no one has given Kron a rave revue, there are still problems
with Lee reeds in terms of squealing and the difficulty of shutting them
off.
Do you really think for a second that I would hand these guys my
money if they can't prove their data. I'm always on the look out
for anything that makes this games easier, but I haven't seen anything
from these guys that will do that.
> So therefore, I am better qualified to judge some things than you are,
Bill you are qualified to judge nothing, so listen to your instructor, learn
how to play this instrument, and seek some psychiatric help for your
problems.
Maybe once you get past the 6th page in the green book, you can
tell us all about the wee gracenotes.
Robert Barker
"Chris Hamilton" <Tone...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:h3h89ss927lmo02m1...@4ax.com...
first
> >set of pipes they ever owned? Is it common for people to "trade up"
after a
> >couple of years on the pipes?
>
---snip---
> So, the short of it is, I still have my original pipes, they're still
> played regularly, but not by me. Upgrading as you go is a common
> practice.
Thanks for the details, Chris. I suspected that it would be pretty common
placed to "out grow" your pipes as you progress.
Bob B.
Robert Barker
Thanks for a great post! I am just beginning to touch the surface of some
of the things
you mention about tuning and maintenance of the pipes. If I had to pick one
thing
lacking from my training and instruction it would be the proper tuning and
maintence of
the pipes. To many times someone will come along and tune your drones and
chanter and tell you "leave it alone" without explaining what they have
done. This newsgroup
can't tune your drones, balance your chanter, or even effectively describe
how to tell if
your in or out. But it can fill you with the quest for such knowlege and
provide you with
paths to pursue once you realize that "just leave it" isn't good enough for
you anymore. It's a great place to share knowlege and experiences with a
wide variety of other pipers. It's a shame when it becomes consumed with
""A" is better than
"B" because you're a stupid head" type of mentaility.
>
> Parting comment. It is interesting that some would chose to expose their
> ignorance by trashing this instrument or that instrument or by slamming
this
> one's opinion or that one's opinion. Noel Slagle played a Dunbar
polypenco
> in Clan MacFarlane for many years, and no one knew. In NRP, last summer
we
> played 4 sets of Dunbar polypenco drones (and one set of Dunbar blackwood
> drones) at the worlds, in a downpour, and placed 2nd and 3rd in piping....
> as judged by Bob Shepherd and Iain MacLellan respectively (and we weren't
> playing Shepherd chanters). It is somewhat curious that we have a regular
> and vocal few (on this NG), who pretend to know more than those who are
> actually on the competition field, standing in front of the best piping
> judges in the world. It might be possible that these pretenders are doing
> nothing more than indulging their fantasies. Bob, this comment obviously
is
> not directed at you.
Obviously not! I'm much to shy to indulge in my fantasies while standing in
an open field surrounded by piping judges! ;-)
beginn...@my-deja.com
"John Mitchell" <sunn...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> > > > > <beginn...@my-deja.com> wrote
>
> > Lies! There are a dozen or more here that have spoken up for Krons,
> > everyone from Ringo and Royce, down to beginners like myself. Let's
not
> > forget Wille McCallum,
>
> Lets set the record straight here for everyone, first Willie McCallum
> does not play Kron pipes.
He just owns a set. I guess they're just wall hangers eh? They may
not be the best set he owns, but your still ignoring your former
instructor who takes them to workshops and touts their virtues. As with
anytime that your faced with a scenario that could prove you wrong, you
just ignore it.
Personally I have nothing against Kron as
> their just one of 20 new makers on the market, but they still have
> not proven themselves in the maket place.
You mean not in your neck of the woods. They've proven themselves in
the USA.
Oh sure they can send
> or give away thier product to recognized names, but those players
> are still playing their original setups.
>
> THIS PART I FIND INTERESTING, here you write:
> > knew well ahead of time that my chanter reed was cracked, weak and
> > useless, and that my bass drone reed had bit the dust too.
That's very relevant, because you omit this fact everytime you say they
sounded like crap. Which they did, that particular day, but that's not
typical.
>
> THEN YOU WROTE THIS WHICH MADE ME LAUGH!
> > If that's true or not isn't the issue, since everyone whose heard
them
> > from a 40+ year veteran........ our band members, have all
commented
> > about the wonderful workmanship, and beautiful sound.
These were unsolicited comments (except for our instructor who I had to
drag it out of, because he dislikes anything that's not "Hide n' cane".
When someone hears them playing, and walks up to you and says "those
sound wonderful", then they most likely do!
> Beautiful sound! If they made that comment, they either don't
> know what their talking about or thier just being nice to you, but
> I think the latter is true. If your going around with a setup like
> yours, your definetly not doing kron any favours.
Sooooo exactly how many sets of WELL set up Krons have you heard again?
>
> > I think all these peoples "HONEST" opinions make your nonsensical
> > opinion worthless to this NG, and the world in general. The NG has
> > known you for far too long to take your opinions on Krons, Marks
rocket
> > reeds, or any other new improvement that comes along, to take you
too
> > seriously.
>
> Lets face facts Bill, I've been at this game 30 plus years, when ever
> someone or something new comes along, of course people are going to
> ask questions and ask for proof, just like any smart consumer would
do.
> To me their just a vendor trying to sell their wares, their in it to
make
> money, so the burden of proof is on them to prove their product.
Yes but you should try it with an open mind. I believe due to madman
and Marks disagreeing with you here on the NG, you'd never give them a
fair shake. As proof of my theory I put forward the phenolic chanter.
So far I've heard nothing but rave reviews about it EXCEPT from you.
I'll not argue the point that they're in business to sell their wares,
and of course wouldn't say "I'm selling crap", but yours are the only
bad words I've heard about Marks Rocket reeds, and the phenolic
chanter, not to mention Kron pipes. When one of the guys who taught you
starts lugging around a set of Krons as a good example of well made,
good sounding pipes, I MUST question your motives John. I'm just trying
to be fair here.
>
> To date, no one has given Kron a rave revue, there are still problems
> with Lee reeds in terms of squealing and the difficulty of shutting
them
> off.
Again, I've only heard this from you, here on the NG.
> Do you really think for a second that I would hand these guys my
> money if they can't prove their data. I'm always on the look out
> for anything that makes this games easier, but I haven't seen anything
> from these guys that will do that.
#1 You have no money.
#2 You need to try them before you pass judgement. 5 mins (or less)
listening to/playing a phenolic chanter isn't fair. You didn't give
them a fair shake because you have no intention of buying it no matter
HOW good it is because your broke.
#3 I'm not on welfare, have never had myself or any member of my family
on welfare. I'm not rich, but not destitute either.
> > So therefore, I am better qualified to judge some things than you
are,
>
> Bill you are qualified to judge nothing,
I repeat, I'm better qualified to judge things FAIRLY than you are.
Maybe not as well, but FAIRLY is the key work I used.
so listen to your instructor, learn
> how to play this instrument,
Good advice, which I'm heeding.
and seek some psychiatric help for your problems.>
As much as I'd like too, my shrink called last week and cancelled our
appointments for the next two years, seems she got a new patient whose
initals are John Mitchell, and her and a whole team of specialists will
be busy for at least that long just evaluating this poor guy. LOLOL
>
> Maybe once you get past the 6th page in the green book, you can
> tell us all about the wee gracenotes.
I'm way past that, but lets not taint the "fairness" question with what
page I'm on...
;?)~
Iain Sherwood
don't know shit about bagpipes, can't play bagpipes, spend too much time
medicating yourself recreationally, haven't even got the balls to be a
wannabe, and NO ONE will ever take you seriously.
Some people may find your comments humorous; to most of us they're just
pathetic.
<beginn...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:871ebg$nan$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <3893b227$1...@127.0.0.1>,
> "John Mitchell" <sunn...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > > <beginn...@my-deja.com> wrote
> > >
> > > BUY KRON KRON KRON KRON KRON KRON KRON KRON KRON KRON KRON KRON KRON
> > > Because your short changing yourself by not adding that brand to the
> > > mix
> >
> > Is it any wonder that he didn't select Kron, as you are the only
> > self appointed spokesman for that company.
> Lies! There are a dozen or more here that have spoken up for Krons,
> everyone from Ringo and Royce, down to beginners like myself. Let's not
> forget Wille McCallum, oh yes and then there's one of your old
> instructors carrying around a set to his workshops to show them off...
> Guess you'll just ignore all that to bolster your weak position on the
> subject.
>
> > That's not saying much after I personally heard your setup
> > which would pass for an ailing duck with no asshole.
>
> Now your just trying to mislead everyone with a HUGE LIE! Because you
> knew well ahead of time that my chanter reed was cracked, weak and
> useless, and that my bass drone reed had bit the dust too.
> Did you make any effort to try to get a good sound out of them? NO!
> Did you even play them? NO!
> Did you try any other reeds or manipulation on them? NO!
> Did you even try to tune the drones? NO!
> Were you interested in giving them a fair listen? NO!
>
> You just wanted to pronounce them "garbage" to the NG because your not
> a big enough man to admit when your wrong. But when I change my opinion
> on something you jump all over me saying I'm two-faced and stupid. You
> should try "growing and learning" sometime, it makes a better person
> out of you.
> You also said recently you had heard another set of Krons that
> were "poorly set up" and proclaimed them garbage.
> I ask everyone here, Does that sound like a fair opinion?
>
>
>
> >
> > Lets just say that your ability to judge tone is no better than
> > a blindman trying to judge a skating contest.
> If that's true or not isn't the issue, since everyone whose heard them
> from a 40+ year veteran and his students, our instructor 25+ years, my
> brother-in-law whose was a professional piper for 10 years (bagpiper
> restaurant in Rhode Island) and is a 30+ year competitor/player, and
> our band members, have all commented about the wonderful workmanship,
> and beautiful sound.
>
> I think all these peoples "HONEST" opinions make your nonsensical
> opinion worthless to this NG, and the world in general. The NG has
> known you for far too long to take your opinions on Krons, Marks rocket
> reeds, or any other new improvement that comes along, to take you too
> seriously.
>
> So therefore, I am better qualified to judge some things than you are,
> because I go into with an open mind and heart, and with enough honesty
> to say "I was wrong" If that proves to be the case. You on the other
> hand will never be that fair out of fear of being called weak.
> Cheers!
>
>
beginn...@my-deja.com
beginn...@my-deja.com wrote:
> In article <38947...@127.0.0.1>,
> "John Mitchell" <sunn...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > > > > <beginn...@my-deja.com> wrote
> >
> > > Lies! There are a dozen or more here that have spoken up for
Krons,
> > > everyone from Ringo and Royce, down to beginners like myself.
All that aside, Why did Ringo say they were decent pipes? Is he
qualified? And Royce? And Zudu? And Bill Carr? And your former
teacher?
I guess they're all wrong too, and your right? The difference was Ringo
took some time, played them, fiddled with "this and that" and then made
up his mind. He even decided he "had to have a Kron" chanter.
If you'd put out a little effort to set them up properly, or even tweak
them a bit, you'd have a different opinion.
Note to above names: Sorry to bring up your names, and feel free not to
respond and get into this. If anyones interested they can check the
archives for your past posts.
But at least were debating in a civilized way.
beginn...@my-deja.com
"Iain Sherwood" <pi...@netwiz.net> wrote:
> openness of heart and 'fair attitude' - doesn't obviate the fact that
you
> don't know shit about bagpipes,
can't play bagpipes, spend too much time
> medicating yourself recreationally,
Not in a long, long time! Although I should listen to someone whose
obviously an expert on "having the terminal munchies"...
haven't even got the balls to be a
> wannabe, and NO ONE will ever take you seriously.
We'll see about that in good time chubby. I got more balls than you got
blubber, and I'll prove it soon.
>
> Some people may find your comments humorous;
I'm know many do, and I'm glad they do.
to most of us they're just pathetic.>
Now you went and made me cry... OH WAIT, you meant my comments, not
me "whew!".
Well you've never met me, so it would seem your just blowin' farts out
of your mouth.
Like I've said so many times before, anyone who judges another person
by what they type in this "beer tent" isn't worth bothering with in the
real world. It's only a computer and a newsgroup, not to mention that
it's only A DAMN INSTRUMENT folks!
Cheers Lain!
Martin and Mardi
gave and more.
The nice thing about the plastic pipes are that when you are ready to move up to
something a bit nicer you don't sell them, you don't worry about resale value.
They make a great "beater" set - the pipes you take to the Saint Patrick day
parade in 20 below with sleet or the pub when it is so crowed and the people so
drunk you aren't sure you will get out alive much less your pipes. When your
friends come over and want to give the pipes a shot do you really want to hand
them the 100 year old silver and ivories?
After your ear improves and you know what sound you like buy the pipes you want
and keep the plastic pipes set up with synthetic drones and a canmore bag. You can
haul them with you to a family vacation on the beach or wherever and not have a
heart attack everytime someone gets near you or the baby steps on the base drone.
Use 'em in massed bands - beat up someone elses pipes for a change. Loan them to a
student who is trying to save up for a set of pipes or a fellow band member whose
"nice blackwood pipes" are in the shop.
Sure the plastic pipes don't sound as great as the wood but then sometimes you
don't need a perfect sound you need indestructable pipes!
Learn on the plastic and keep them when you buy blackwood. Of course if your
instructor won't teach you if you own plastic pipes - well then that is a
different story.
Martin Hatcher
Albany, NY USA
beginn...@my-deja.com
mec...@earthlink.net wrote:
> I think Ringo is right on this one. Start on the plastic pipes for
the reasons he
> gave and more.
>
> The nice thing about the plastic pipes are that when you are ready
to move up to
> something a bit nicer you don't sell them, you don't worry about
resale value.
I agree Martin, but not being rich, I tried to buy a set that we won't
have to ever replace. But after reading this thread, I guess that may
not be very realistic .
> They make a great "beater" set - the pipes you take to the Saint
Patrick day
> parade in 20 below with sleet or the pub when it is so crowed and the
people so
> drunk you aren't sure you will get out alive much less your pipes.
When your
> friends come over and want to give the pipes a shot do you really
want to hand
> them the 100 year old silver and ivories?
Now that all makes PERFECT sense!
>
> After your ear improves and you know what sound you like buy the
pipes you want
> and keep the plastic pipes set up with synthetic drones and a canmore
bag. You can
> haul them with you to a family vacation on the beach or wherever and
not have a
> heart attack everytime someone gets near you or the baby steps on the
base drone.
> Use 'em in massed bands - beat up someone elses pipes for a change.
Loan them to a
> student who is trying to save up for a set of pipes or a fellow band
member whose
> "nice blackwood pipes" are in the shop.
>
> Sure the plastic pipes don't sound as great as the wood but then
sometimes you
> don't need a perfect sound you need indestructable pipes!
>
> Learn on the plastic and keep them when you buy blackwood. Of course
if your
> instructor won't teach you if you own plastic pipes - well then that
is a
> different story.
There is a few like that out there too!
But your post makes perfect sense to me. Thanks for explaining it in
other words. Beater pipes make sense in our new england climate.
TY!
Bill
Matthew Wood
set personally and they are quite easy to tune. No falling mounts, no
cracked drones. The whole band plays the MkIII. Unfortunately the MkII's
are hard to find. I sold my last two to Chris Hamilton, COWPB. At least I
can say a chanter I played won the G2 World's. I have sold about ten sets
of Shepherds this year and had no problems with them. Beginners have them
with no damage to the wood, Although Ron makes a good point on the plastic
pipes. Roddy MacLellan makes a very nice instrument as well. I just sold
my first two sets and they are quite well made. Five people in the band
Have them, all beginners and I have seen nothing go wrong yet!
I have no personal experience with the other makers. Hopefully someone
will give advice rather than arguing about Krons. I have yet to see any of
the new Krons. A girl I taught bought a set 6-8 years ago and the bass
drone warped. No other experience with them.
Good Luck!
Matt
Jesiharis <jesi...@aol.com> wrote in article
<20000130111414...@ng-fy1.aol.com>...
> Thanks for the opinions, although I would still like to hear what people
think
> about these four pipemakers and their pipes.
>
Chris Hamilton
<MLWo...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>My personal preference for the money is Shepherd. I play a two year old
>set personally and they are quite easy to tune. No falling mounts, no
>cracked drones. The whole band plays the MkIII. Unfortunately the MkII's
>are hard to find. I sold my last two to Chris Hamilton, COWPB. At least I
>can say a chanter I played won the G2 World's.
Hehehehe, our secret is out ...
Actually, I didn't play one of the chanters I got from you at The
Worlds, but I think at least one of them was in the mix out there. I
played an older hacked carved monstrosity of a Mark II with a Low A
the size of Rhode Island, and B, C, D, and F's to match!
beginn...@my-deja.com
"Matthew Wood" <MLWo...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> My personal preference for the money is Shepherd. I play a two year
old
> set personally and they are quite easy to tune. No falling mounts, no
> cracked drones. The whole band plays the MkIII.
I have heard nothing bad about Shepards, and don't proclaim to say
Krons are the "end all to all ends" of pipes. There's probably a
hundred brands I've never seen or heard. Any good brand makes all pipes
look good, any bad brand hurts every brand out there. Choose what you
think will work for you, and ignore the rest.
When I was in the carpet cleaning business, no one hurt us more
than "Sears, the carpet cleaning experts", because by the time they
were done screwing customers it was that much harder for an honest
(higher paid) guy like me to gain entry into the market. I was at the
opposite end of the spectrum than they were (were cheapest!) and
honestly you'll get what you pay for.
McBagpiper
chanter...wood that is. The top players in the world debate the shepard vs
nail. both have great chanters. since they are comparable, price might be a
factor.
Zudupiper
>the size of Rhode Island
Hey! Watch it!
Zu
Zudupiper
>placed to "out grow" your pipes as you progress.
If you started with a less-than-pretty-darn-good set, yes.
Let me qualify that. As long as you're happy with the sound of your pipes,
they're fine. Once you hear something better, and recognize it as better,
you'll never be happy with a lesser sound again.
Some people never develop an ear to hear anything better than their current
pipes. OTOH, some people get a good set of pipes and play them all their life.
I guess what I'm saying is, your ear tells you when you've outgrown a
particular set of pipes. It may never tell you, or it may tell you 3 times in
4 years.
This assumes that you know how to maintain and set up and properly reed
whatever set of pipes you're playing. And I'm coming to the conclusion that a
heckuva lot of people don't. And if you don't, it probably doesn't much matter
what kind of pipes you play...they're not going to sound very good whether
they're....ummm....Hendersons or ...ummm.... Drumrans.
Zu
(former owner of Drumrans, and current owner of Henderson lookalikes)
Chris Hamilton
And the volume of Connecticut.
mark...@my-deja.com
> To date, no one has given Kron a rave revue,
"No one" the new pseudonym for P&D these days?
>there are still problems
> with Lee reeds in terms of squealing and the difficulty of shutting
them
> off.
It's a daunting task for the technically challenged to ship them back
to the maker for an adjustment.
> Do you really think for a second that I would hand these guys my
> money if they can't prove their data. I'm always on the look out
> for anything that makes this games easier, but I haven't seen anything
> from these guys that will do that.
That's quite an assumption on your part..."those guys" willing to sell
you anything.
Mark
Shawn Husk
> Then to add insult to injury I was putting in
> our last chanter reed and chipped it on the side of the stock. That
No. I don't chip reeds. Ever.
ferraridrones
you started the ball roling again... and sense everyone feels they need
to put their two cents in... here goes;
If you have gobs of money... buy Naill DN4's or 5's with a silver band
on the A/B chanter for solo's and then buy what the Pipe Major
recommends for the band chanter (it is nice to be politically correct
sometimes). This is what SFU has on most of their band members.
If you don't have a lot of money, but still want the best sound... buy
Booth (A/B fully combed, chrome ferrals/slides w/imitation ivory
mounts... in fact you can get them in the hallmark silver mounts (extra
$1550), they sound great (same as Henderson's). They come with a
plastic Warnock chanter that works well for solos and band. Price also
includes Henderson Harmonics drone reeds, silk cords, wool/silk bag
cover, elk-hide bag, corks, chanter cap, Bor-Mor valve, hemp, odds &
ends box, Burt Mitchells BK 1/CD, cold seasoning, locking high impact
plastic pipe case, and shipping for @$980 from Sandy ST James;
201-385-8991.
Does this look like an add, hell yes. Is it, yes... I like to see
people get on the best sound they can for the money... if you can buy a
set of Henderson's that were made between 1910-1920 great... if not buy
what is recommended above. Not to put the others out... they have all
got great chanters and drones... they just can't meet the price of
Booth.
Cheers,
Ian
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
beginn...@my-deja.com
they've never chipped a reed. All it takes is for the dog to bump up
against your leg while you inserting it, or your kid to move or shout
suddenly, or anyone of a number of similar things like that to happen.
STEPHEN PANNONE
I
> played an older hacked carved monstrosity of a Mark II with a Low A
> the size of Rhode Island, and B, C, D, and F's to match!
>
> Chris
Becareful Chris there are a few of us from Rhode Island 8)
Chris Hamilton
Rhode Island is small for a state, but large for a hole on a chanter!
aberdeen
Next time, I'm sure you'll be aware of the need to check with the
Politically Correct Police before you make any comparisons which could
step on toes. Now, if you'd compared it to the size of some of the
counties here in Texas..... :-)
All the best,
Jim
In article <8o5b9sk53tvrp5sg3...@4ax.com>,
--
Jim Hudgins
Aberdeen Bagpipe Supply
<http://www.AberdeenBagpipe.com>
Chris Hamilton
>Chris:
>
>Next time, I'm sure you'll be aware of the need to check with the
>Politically Correct Police before you make any comparisons which could
>step on toes. Now, if you'd compared it to the size of some of the
>counties here in Texas..... :-)
Eh, it's the Napoleon complex...
Bob Cameron
fanciest (BP2), and the im. ivory mounts tend to get sort of a butternut squash
cast to them over the years, but They play just fine and have no cracks. (
Then again, I still ahev my original 1971 Miraphone 1854U tuba ( that's like
saying a 1935 Henderson in GHB terms) and a 1986 Jeep. I like to keep things
around if they're working just fine...
Robert Barker wrote:
> "Ron Bowen" <Ron_...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:_8Nk4.14863$l82.2...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > There are so many factors to consider. Without knowing any of your
> specific
> > factors or circumstances, this is my advice and reasons.
> >
> > Buy a new or used Dunbar polypenco bagpipe and play it for two years.
>
> This advice makes me wonder, how many out there are still playing the first
> set
> of pipes they ever owned? Is it common for people to "trade up" after a
> couple of years
> on the pipes? I personally bought the cheapest set of pipes I could find at
> the time since
> I was not playing yet and knew nothing about pipes (Thank God it was the
> British Shop I was dealing with and not some Paki retailer!!!). This fall
> with about 2 years playing experience I traded them in for a nicer looking
> and sounding set. I'm thinking that this
> is probably pretty common among pipers and it would have a pretty big impact
> on how much money to spend on your first set of pipes.
>
> Bob B.
John Mitchell
> beginn...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > Then to add insult to injury I was putting in
> > our last chanter reed and chipped it on the side of the stock. That
> > happens to even the most seasoned pro's occasionally, right?
>
> No. I don't chip reeds. Ever.
I've played with chipped reeds before, but they never sounded like that!
Michael New & Diane Rossmiller
> Chris:
>
> Next time, I'm sure you'll be aware of the need to check with the
> Politically Correct Police before you make any comparisons which could
> step on toes. Now, if you'd compared it to the size of some of the
> counties here in Texas..... :-)
>
Texas????...........???????????
Oh right, that SMALL state down there by Mexico.
Big for a chanter hole, but not too big for a state...*\;^r
Regards,
Michael (from the really BIG state...you know which one I mean).
Chris Hamilton
Lerwick) wrote:
>On Sun, 30 Jan 2000 15:22:09 +0900, Paula & Takeshi
><paula-...@amy.hi-ho.ne.jp> wrote:
>>Royce, why NOT THE NEW MARK III?
>
>I've personally only had one sail by me, and it was a pretty good
>chanter but did not take reeds well except the *old* Shepherd, but
>those are now hard to get and the new Shepherds are not working well
>in those or any other chanters.
>
>Chris H--pipe in here.
Okay ...
I've tried one Mark III a fair bit, and handled a few others. The one
I had was really flat on the top hand and very high-pitched on the
bottom, with a very shallow reed seat. The others were not quite so
shallow in the seat, but still nothing like the ubiquitous and
much-beloved Mark II.
The solution? Cram the reed WAY down in to balance the top and
bottom. But then you've got a real high pitch, higher than I for one
like. So it didn't suit my fancy.
Also, it really only accepts very narrow staple reeds. The newer
model Shepherd reed, if you've seen it, works well in these chanters.
It appears that Iain Macey and Duncan Soutar reeds go pretty well too.
The new Shepherd reeds need a lot of hemping up to work well in the
older Mark II chanters, but they work great as is in the new chanter.
The Mark II, on the other hand, accepts just about anything and plays
at a nice pitch, not too high and not too low. Gotta tape the top
hand a lot, but ya can't have everything. A great chanter, one of the
all-time greats I think.
Zudupiper
>Krons are the "end all to all ends" of pipes.
New Year's Resolution, eh? ; )
>Any good brand makes all pipes
>look good, any bad brand hurts every brand out there.
???
The same is true of setup.
Zu
Royce Lerwick
<rba...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>I prefer to think of it in terms of beginning to figure out what you want
>out
>of your pipes and finding a set that is more suited to your goals. Of
>course,
>your comments are probably quite true in some cases... ;-)
You have to keep in mind I'm responding again to the thread started by
Ron, in which the notion of buying plastic, or in your example,
Pakistani or "cheapo" or whatever pipes is more or less presented as
some sort of "trainer" pipes. If that's all you can afford, and you
have to go cheap, fine. No problem. But the suggestion that you buy
cheap as an option to see if you're going to get "serious" is
ridiculous. That's almost like throwing the money away. At least if
you spend the extra money on good pipes you can recover some of it.
>> >I personally bought the cheapest set of pipes I could find at
>> >the time since
>> >I was not playing yet and knew nothing about pipes (Thank God it was the
>> >British Shop I was dealing with and not some Paki retailer!!!). This
>fall
>> >with about 2 years playing experience I traded them in for a nicer
>looking
>> >and sounding set.
>>
>> And you found out it didn't cost very much more for a good set in the
>> first place.
>
>About $600 US, allowing for a trade in on the old pipes.
You'd have to throw actual figures at me, but I don't really want to
get into a retailers bitch session. One thing for sure is, as you
point out, and that's the input from a reputable retailer who will
follow you through your piping exercises and be there if and when you
start looking for the set your "ear" wants to lead you to, is a big
advantage. Having said that, you're probably better off passing on the
beginner specials to some even more desperate acolyte, rather than
looking for a trade-in.
>
>> >I'm thinking that this
>> >is probably pretty common among pipers and it would have a pretty big
>impact
>> >on how much money to spend on your first set of pipes.
>>
>> That and who cons them into thinking they can get by on cheapo pipes
>> for a few years. It's a self-fullfilling prophecy. Of course you're
>> going to trade-up in a few years. You've already assured that with the
>> crap pipes you bought. The problem is, at that point all you can do is
>> lose money in the trade, because the resale value is nil. A good set
>> of pipes can at least hold their own over a few years on not lose
>> much.
>
>Yes, well luckily Ian sold me a reputable brand of ABW "student" model
>pipes
>(plain turned, wood mounts etc.) and I was able to get within a few hundred
>dollars of what I paid for them on a trade-in. They were playable and had
>decent
>sound for what I was able to produce.
Sounds like a pretty good situation. But that just reinforces my
point--not to just dump on Dunbar--but you were a complete moron who
bought a pretty decent set of blackwood pipes and managed not to
destroy them over the course of a few years, and they were in good
enough shape to basically get back your money out of them. That's not
the same idea as recommending every beginner to buy plastic pipes
because the danger of brutally crushing blackwood pipes is so
overwhelming its not worth the risk. Or, because you're a complete
moron who isn't going to know the difference anyway.
>
>I agree with your point, Royce, and was not advocating the purchase of
>"cheapo"
>pipes to get you by for a few years. I only stated my particular situation
>as an
>illustration. Sorry for the confusion!
I think the only confusion is on the definition of "cheapo" pipes. If
you were going to get a set of good sounding delrin pipes for a few
hundred dollars, I think everyone should have a set just for backup or
cold-weather playing. I've personally had a set of Pakistani "party"
pipes laying at station on the shelf for the last four or five years.
If my own pipes are down, or if I'm playing out at the annual ship
roast in the backyard and its 24 below zero, out they come. In other
music circles this is known as a "shit rig" or in this case, a "shite
rig." It's the playable, not too-bad crap you beat to death on the
road.
But if you're talking about paying 600 bucks or more for plastic
pipes, well, you can get blackwood pipes from several makers for that
or not too much more, so what's the point of going plastic?
Royce
Royce Lerwick
<paula-...@amy.hi-ho.ne.jp> wrote:
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>--------------ADDEC87AB7EF0F9F8A57E819
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>Royce, why NOT THE NEW MARK III?
I've personally only had one sail by me, and it was a pretty good
chanter but did not take reeds well except the *old* Shepherd, but
those are now hard to get and the new Shepherds are not working well
in those or any other chanters.
Chris H--pipe in here.
Royce
Royce Lerwick
>The truth is, I would prefer to educate myself to the point that I could take
>care of a really good set of wooden pipes, and I intend to do so.
Again, nothing to do with Ron other than his absurd statements about
plastic being the ticket for beginners, but there isn't that big a
problem taking care or wood. Idiots just like you have been doing it
for hundreds of years, and you have a good instructor.
Royce
Royce Lerwick
wrote:
>Bob, your experience and comments make a lot more sense than others who are
>dancing and self-promoting on this thread.
Like you Ron? You dance pretty good.
>The first couple years on the
>pipes is a time of exponential growth in understanding what the pipes are
>all about.
True, but entirely unrelated to either the thread you started or Bob's
comments.
>
>A simple matter of hemping pipes properly can mean the difference between a
>bagpipe that is comfortable to play and one that is impossible to play. It
>can also mean the difference between stocks and drones splitting under the
>pressure of swelling hemp or not.
And of course, we have no idea what you mean by hemping properly
because you neglected to explain it in your book.
>In my workshops, I usually devote one
>block of time to doing a thorough examination of everyone's bagpipe. It is
>a real disappointment when I point out hairline cracks in stocks and drones
>that have occurred because someone didn't know better. Obviously this is a
>painful and expensive lesson.
Truth of the matter is, nearly all pipes have hairline cracks in
stocks. This is sometimes a question of swelling, but usually a
question of forcing the tenon in too hard in the case of man-made
accidents, and more commonly, shrinkage of the wood.
>Those first couple of years are also a time when you start to understand the
>sounds that a bagpipe makes and how they blend together to create those
>beautiful rich harmonics that we all love.
But of course, if you don't have a decent set of wood pipes you have
no idea what you're talking about because nothing you can do will
produce the beautiful rich harmonics that we all love.
>I have said before that there are no answers on this NG,
There are plenty of answers on this news group. Lots and lots of
bagpipe stuff is simpleminded crap anyone could understand.
>only clues to
>answers.
The only one who needs a clue is you.
>I really have nothing at stake here and if someone feels that they
>know better than me..... well, perhaps they do. What I am promoting here is
>that newer pipers find out the answers for themselves.
Now, how can that be when at the same time you're urging them to buy
some plastic bangers and telling them they don't deserve to have "The
Last Hendersons?" The only answer they're going to find out that was
is they blew their money on plastic pipes and now they have to sell
them to get the Hendersons.
>Parting comment. It is interesting that some would chose to expose their
>ignorance by trashing this instrument or that instrument or by slamming this
>one's opinion or that one's opinion. Noel Slagle played a Dunbar polypenco
>in Clan MacFarlane for many years, and no one knew.
What? Chanter or drones? Was that during the "Dunbar/Eller" days or
before? Are you telling me nobody knew? How do you know then? What
sort of pipes do you play? It's not Dunbar.
>In NRP, last summer we
>played 4 sets of Dunbar polypenco drones (and one set of Dunbar blackwood
>drones) at the worlds, in a downpour, and placed 2nd and 3rd in piping....
>as judged by Bob Shepherd and Iain MacLellan respectively (and we weren't
>playing Shepherd chanters).
And if all you ever plan to do is play in a grade 2 band and hide in
the back you can get a great band sound with a couple of Dunbars
drones in there alright. So, what drones do you play in your solo work
in open professional?
>It is somewhat curious that we have a regular
>and vocal few (on this NG), who pretend to know more than those who are
>actually on the competition field, standing in front of the best piping
>judges in the world. It might be possible that these pretenders are doing
>nothing more than indulging their fantasies. Bob, this comment obviously is
>not directed at you.
Ron, I've read your book. People who live in glass houses shouldn't
throw around words like "pretenders" or "self promoting."
Royce
(And nothing at all to do with Ron or any of his late great bands, but
remember, this thread is about whether or not the beginner should get
some decent blackwood pipes to start with, and the answer is still
yes. I don't care if it's Naill, Shepherd, Pettigrew, Glen repros, or
Dunfions, unless you're paying half what the wood sets are costing,
for plastic, get the wood.)
Royce Lerwick
wrote:
>Plain and simple, Bill, I've seen too much out there over my 30 years in
>this game.
30 years? Shite! And I thought you'd been playing a long time!
Royce
Royce Lerwick
<Tone...@erols.com> wrote:
>The new Shepherd reeds need a lot of hemping up to work well in the
>older Mark II chanters, but they work great as is in the new chanter.
But by that you mean if you shove them in and balance it out so the
pitch is very very high?
Royce
(Which was my impression.)
Royce Lerwick
<sunn...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Lets set the record straight here for everyone, first Willie McCallum
>does not play Kron pipes.
Well, I guess he bought a set at retail on his own initiative and he
gave the maker a good review. Maybe that counts for something.
>Personally I have nothing against Kron as
>their just one of 20 new makers on the market, but they still have
>not proven themselves in the maket place.
I guess you could ask Ian Macey at the next Frasers practice how he
likes his Kron drones and phenolic chanter, and why he became a dealer
and find out how they're selling. I think Ian Donaldson moves some
Kron merchandise as well. Maybe they could give a better idea how wel
the product moves in the "marketplace," in your neck of the woods, but
in California for instance, they can't sell them fast enough.
>Oh sure they can send
>or give away thier product to recognized names, but those players
>are still playing their original setups.
I think I already answered the "give away" element of this, but
Aladair Gillies won his Krons at a competition in Oklahoma, and has
said some very very good things about them. We've yet to see if he's
played them in competition, but both he and Willie McCallum will be at
the Queen Mary coming up, so somebody could aske them both while
they're there for an honest evaluation. (I don't think anyone you know
was invited unfortunately John.)
>Beautiful sound! If they made that comment, they either don't
>know what their talking about or thier just being nice to you, but
>I think the latter is true. If your going around with a setup like
>yours, your definetly not doing kron any favours.
There is certainly a "Pearls Before Swine" element happening so far in
the Kron user world, but a pearl is still a pearl.
>To date, no one has given Kron a rave revue,
Nobody you know personally John. But then, you don't really move in
the higher circles.
>there are still problems
>with Lee reeds in terms of squealing and the difficulty of shutting them
>off.
Of course this is twaddle. What reeds shut off best John? I guess I'd
rather not have mine shut off on me.
The guys using Lee Rockets are well out of your class John. Just drop
that one because it isn't even speculative any more. Nobody you know
personally can get them anyway so I don't know how you can get any
honest opinion on them.
>Do you really think for a second that I would hand these guys my
>money if they can't prove their data. I'm always on the look out
>for anything that makes this games easier, but I haven't seen anything
>from these guys that will do that.
You actually haven't seen anything from these guys except in quick
passing. And you're personally pretty much out of the games scene
anyway. And like I say, you can't get any of their products so it's
academic for you. Bill's a pain in the ass about it but at least he's
got the article in question to evaluate.
Royce
John Mitchell
> I guess you could ask Ian Macey at the next Frasers practice how he
> likes his Kron drones and phenolic chanter, and why he became a dealer
> and find out how they're selling. I think Ian Donaldson moves some
> Kron merchandise as well.
Wrong on both counts here, what makes you think Iain Macey is playing with
the Frasers, just because he has shown up to a couple of practices doesn't
necessarily mean he's in the band, he's got along way to go before he makes
the roster and what does that have to do with Kron.
Ian Donaldson's British shop carries numerous makers of pipes, Kron is
not one of them, unless someone specifically requests them.
> I think I already answered the "give away" element of this, but
> Aladair Gillies won his Krons at a competition in Oklahoma, and has
> said some very very good things about them.
What forum has Alasdair ever said anything good about them, Alasdair
has no controll over what the prizes are, so this give away is just
an advertising stunt. It's bogus!
> played them in competition, but both he and Willie McCallum will be at
> the Queen Mary coming up, so somebody could aske them both while
> they're there for an honest evaluation. (I don't think anyone you know
> was invited unfortunately John.)
Hmmm! I personally know John Cairns, Bruce Gandy, Adrian Melvin,
Alisdair Gillies, Colin MacLellan, Ian MacDonald(Toronto),
Willie MacCallum and just about everyone attending that contest.
So what was your point again!
> Nobody you know personally John. But then, you don't really move in
> the higher circles.
And what circles do you move about again in that great meka of piping
of Minihaha! About the only circle you ever moved in was
that ring of fire. You could have done us all a favour and just tossed your
pipes in there along with your MIDI shite!
> Of course this is twaddle. What reeds shut off best John? I guess I'd
> rather not have mine shut off on me.
If you can't shut the dam reeds off, how do you expect to go thru
the tuning procedure, the pro can tune all three drones at one time, but I
guarantee that many Amatuer players need to shut reeds off to tune
one drone at a time.
> The guys using Lee Rockets are well out of your class John.
Ummm! What class is that Royce?
Great tone was produced long before Lee Reeds ever showed up,
his reeds are not practical for the Amatuer players and with the new
Wygent Duatone out now, it makes his reeds obsolete!
> You actually haven't seen anything from these guys except in quick
> passing. And you're personally pretty much out of the games scene
> anyway.
Oh I forgot, your the guy that can critique on a contest half way around
the world where you weren't even present and before the CD was out,
so you must know what my future holds for me, Eh!. Your such a Bozo!
No one but me, knows what my plans are for this year, it could be anywhere
from adjudicating to playing with a local gr1 band, but that's my life and
my business, which is not up for discussion on this NG. So get to Fuck Goof!
What is your point about my involvement with OPPBA and it's players anyway?
Chris Hamilton
<sunn...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Royce Lerwick <pmle...@wavetech.net> wrote in
>> ...
> ...
>> I think I already answered the "give away" element of this, but
>> Aladair Gillies won his Krons at a competition in Oklahoma, and has
>> said some very very good things about them.
>
>What forum has Alasdair ever said anything good about them, Alasdair
>has no controll over what the prizes are, so this give away is just
>an advertising stunt. It's bogus!
I not trying to jump in here and take sides, and I'm not "speaking for
Alasdair", but Alasdair has said very complimentary things about them
to me personally. I have played a set of the pink ivory pipes as well,
and I was really impressed by how nice they sounded.
>Great tone was produced long before Lee Reeds ever showed up,
>his reeds are not practical for the Amatuer players and with the new
>Wygent Duatone out now, it makes his reeds obsolete!
I'd have to disagree here - they're very practical and I could name
many pipers, Open and Amateur, who are pleased with their reeds. As
for the squealing and the shut-off problems, I've had no problem
shutting them off, and some problems with the strike-in. By returning
them to Mark for some adjustment, and finding just the right strike-in
technique for my new bag and these reeds, it's pretty much a non-issue
now.
I doubt many Rocket users are going to switch to DuaTones anytime
soon, especially since there's no price differential.
Just my friendly tuppence worth.
Beginnertunes
I think he's sweet on me... ;?)~
Beginnertunes
>from adjudicating
The world would end before they'd let an opinionated bozo like you judge
anything. They look for judges that are fair minded. You certainly don't fit
that bill.
aberdeen
Touche'!
I fondly remember a salmon fishing trip I took there once - beautiful
country.
Best regards to our "frozen neighbors of the North".
Jim
John Mitchell
Beginnertunes <beginn...@aol.com> wrote in
> The world would end before they'd let an opinionated bozo like you judge
> anything. They look for judges that are fair minded. You certainly don't
fit
> that bill.
Bill, why don't you run along and go play in the sand box with your pal Osh
piper.
Your posts are not only nauseating and useless, but it gets tiresome hearing
from a Royce puppet like you that just echoes that numpty's ever move.
I'm sure in your many private posts to Royce, you have mentioned to him
how much you would like to fly over there and blow him, and try to make up
for your sad mistake of trying to take him on when you first appeared
here in the NG. You've been sucking his ass ever since and he's the one
that's laughing at you now.
Bill answer me this, do you ever make any decisions for yourself?
Robert Barker
> Ron, in which the notion of buying plastic, or in your example,
> Pakistani or "cheapo" or whatever pipes is more or less presented as
> some sort of "trainer" pipes. If that's all you can afford, and you
> have to go cheap, fine. No problem. But the suggestion that you buy
> cheap as an option to see if you're going to get "serious" is
> ridiculous. That's almost like throwing the money away. At least if
> you spend the extra money on good pipes you can recover some of it.
I get the fact that you don't agree with Ron about the Dunbars. I don't
care to
get in the middle of that debate, thank you! I was really just curious as
to how
many pipers stuck with their origional set of pipes or traded up. When I
stated my experience of buying the cheapest pipes I could find I wasn't
trying to advocate that
others follow in my foot steps! It was more to the point that The Brittish
Shop saved
me from getting a "throw away" set of pipes.
> >> And you found out it didn't cost very much more for a good set in the
> >> first place.
> >
> >About $600 US, allowing for a trade in on the old pipes.
>
> You'd have to throw actual figures at me, but I don't really want to
> get into a retailers bitch session. One thing for sure is, as you
No retailer's bitch session here, I'm perfectly happy with the money I spent
and the product I received. The new pipes were $1300 US, the old pipes
were $860 US and the trade in was $700 US. It cost me $160 US to play
those pipes for 2 years.
> >Yes, well luckily Ian sold me a reputable brand of ABW "student" model
> >pipes
> >(plain turned, wood mounts etc.) and I was able to get within a few
hundred
> >dollars of what I paid for them on a trade-in. They were playable and
had
> >decent
> >sound for what I was able to produce.
>
> Sounds like a pretty good situation. But that just reinforces my
> point--not to just dump on Dunbar--but you were a complete moron who
> bought a pretty decent set of blackwood pipes and managed not to
> destroy them over the course of a few years, and they were in good
> enough shape to basically get back your money out of them. That's not
> the same idea as recommending every beginner to buy plastic pipes
> because the danger of brutally crushing blackwood pipes is so
> overwhelming its not worth the risk. Or, because you're a complete
> moron who isn't going to know the difference anyway.
Sheesh! Complete Moron? How about complete neophyte....
The rest of this paragraph is a point well taken, but it is really directed
at
Ringo again. I'm not going there... "Wouldn't be prudent!"
> But if you're talking about paying 600 bucks or more for plastic
> pipes, well, you can get blackwood pipes from several makers for that
> or not too much more, so what's the point of going plastic?
Back to you, Ringo.... ;-)
madman
> What forum has Alasdair ever said anything good about them, Alasdair
> has no controll over what the prizes are, so this give away is just
> an advertising stunt. It's bogus!
OK John,whatever you say,but just do me a favor and answer me one bloody
question.
If our shit is so rotten,and us Kron Boys are so fucking stupid and
incompetent and all,
than why,and how is it that,that your good buddy Ringo refers repairs
....
and I mean some really big jobs to us?
Why doesn't he just send them over to Dunbar or your landlord for that
matter.
Your landlord does claim to be some sort of bagpipe repair guy doesn't
he?
(and what I'm alluding to here is a set of turn-of the -century
McDougalls,which had so many fooking cracks and *splits*...the tenor top
was literally *quartered*,
and the only firm on this earth who could have ressurrected those drones
is Kron & Co.,
ala *10* threaded pins in the tenor top ,*8* pins in the middle
joint,another 8-10 pins in the bass-top,and a bunch more in a few of the
stocks.......
of course we're the only guys on the planet who even *offer* that kind
of intricate
repair work,let alone have the skill,knowledge and expertise to do the
job properly)
So in summation....if it doesn't invlove a spit-shine or a lick of
spar-varnish,
it gets shipped across the border to the professionals.
Chris Hamilton
Lerwick) wrote:
>On Mon, 31 Jan 2000 21:05:54 -0500, Chris Hamilton
><Tone...@erols.com> wrote:
>
>>The new Shepherd reeds need a lot of hemping up to work well in the
>>older Mark II chanters, but they work great as is in the new chanter.
>
>But by that you mean if you shove them in and balance it out so the
>pitch is very very high?
Yeah, I guess kinda ... if I undestand you correctly. They work if
they're pushed far in. The pitch is high but the chanter is balanced.
Too high for me though.
mark...@my-deja.com
"John Mitchell" <sunn...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> If you can't shut the dam reeds off, how do you expect to go thru
> the tuning procedure, the pro can tune all three drones at one time,
but I
> guarantee that many Amatuer players need to shut reeds off to tune
> one drone at a time.
If you're a pro, why are you bitching?
> Great tone was produced long before Lee Reeds ever showed up,
Great tone? Golly, thanks John. You didn't mention great steadiness.
That's OK, I will. Great pipers can play with great steadiness while
many amateurs cannot. The rockets simply help to level the field.
> his reeds are not practical for the Amatuer players
Impractical for amateurs? Are they practical for pros then? Quite a
paradox.
Mark
Bob Cameron
aberdeen wrote: snip
> Best regards to our "frozen neighbors of the North".
>
> Jim
Would that be Oklahoma. then , Jim? ;-)
John Mitchell
madman <athert...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> OK John,whatever you say,but just do me a favor and answer me one bloody
> question.
>
> If our shit is so rotten,and us Kron Boys are so fucking stupid and
> incompetent and all,
> than why,and how is it that,that your good buddy Ringo refers repairs
> ....
> and I mean some really big jobs to us?
>
> Why doesn't he just send them over to Dunbar or your landlord for that
> matter.
> Your landlord does claim to be some sort of bagpipe repair guy doesn't
> he?
This is very simple Dave, Dunbar is in business to make pipes, that's where
his money is, he doesn't have the time for repair work. No money in it!
If you have any questions for Lindsay Kirkwood, I suggest that you ask him
direct at kirk...@vaxxine.com
Unfortunately for you Dave, you have alot of competition out there that's
growing every day. Naill is popular right now, but MacCallum Pipes
and MacLellan pipes are being picked up by more reputable players
every day. Jake Watson has just signed up will MacCallum to distribute
them, and believe me, Jake is not an easy man to please when it comes
to the sound department.
I'm sorry Dave, but your firm just hasn't produced anything outstanding
in the sound department. Otherwise we would have heard about you by now!
How much time does it really take, according to you, you've been
in the business for nearly 300 years now.
As we say in the Ontario Mafia up here, it's just business, nothing
personal.
Now get in the trunk! <G>
aberdeen
No, no!
Although there was a time when I, and a number of like-thinking
individuals from my old home town of Austin certainly took a dim view of
folks wearing red north of the Red River. <G> Then we'd meet in neutral
ground (Dallas) each October, engage in all manner of collegiate fun,
watch a football game which would determine who had bragging rights
until the next October when we'd do it all again.
All the best,
--
Jim Hudgins
Aberdeen Bagpipe Supply
<http://www.AberdeenBagpipe.com>
madman
>
>
> This is very simple Dave, Dunbar is in business to make pipes, that's where
> his money is, he doesn't have the time for repair work. No money in it!
Well,you're right on the "no money" part, in which case you've
just proven yourself a liar,since just the other day you posted
"They're <Kron &Co.> in it for the money".
We offer that as a service to pipers...despite the negative revenue.
>
> If you have any questions for Lindsay Kirkwood, I suggest that you ask him
> direct at kirk...@vaxxine.com
No...I think you've just answered the question ,albeit thru omission.
So let me get this straight.
Kron & co. is good enough to rescue a rare vintage set of
McDougals,which
required more skill and knowledge,and technical expertise than making a
new set from scratch,but somehow in that equation according to you ,
we're still useless.
Makes perfect sense.......in Bizarro World
madman
> Unfortunately for you Dave, you have alot of competition out there that's
> growing every day. Naill is popular right now, but MacCallum Pipes
> and MacLellan pipes are being picked up by more reputable players
> every day. Jake Watson has just signed up will MacCallum to distribute
> them, and believe me, Jake is not an easy man to please when it comes
> to the sound department.
(Now this is really funny)
So Jake plays these "pipes"..eh?
(yeah,right)
You'll defend some glue-mores of course,but you'll go ballistic
when someone says Alasdair is playing the pink Krons.(he is of course)
(or when I mention the rockets)
The ironic part is that The Kron drone was used to develop the Rockets.
Incomplete list of Rocket PLayers.
Alasdair Gillies(three sets and counting),
Norman Gillies
John D. Burgess
Andrew Wright
Willie McCallum
Bruce Gandy
Ed Neigh
Jim McGillivray
Donald Lindsay
Geoff Neigh
Jack Lee
Duncan Bell(good pal)
Scot Walker(good customer)
Bob Worrall
Ann Gray
Mike Green
Chris Hamilton
Scottish Power
StrathClyde POlice
Halifax Police
( all you Canadian guys have John to thank for the sudden unavailability
of the
Rockets...)
madman
> and MacLellan pipes are being picked up by more reputable players
> every day.
Hell,they even have MaCallum Day down at Yankees Stadium.
Free set of drones with every hot dog or pretzel.
Unfortunately ,even at 4 dollars for a hot dog,its still a rip-off.
Beginnertunes
>in the sound department. Otherwise we would have heard about you by now!
More pompous crap. If THEY haven't heard about it, IT'S got to be crap. You
know they're soooooo good up there, and everyone "down here" just sucks.
Once more, this loudmouth has never EVEN HANDLED OR PLAYED a set of Krons, much
less tried to make them sound good.
Just ignore the ignorant monkee Dave! Everyone here, except for his pals from
"up there" know he's full of it.
Chris Hamilton
<PaulG...@compuserve.com> wrote:
> How do I know whether mine is a Mark I, II or III? I bought it in the
> autumn of 1997.
99.9% chance it's a Mark II. The Mark I was produced from about 1985
through 1992 or 93. It has a plainish bottom with two grooved rings
cut in the "sole".
The Mark II was produced from 1993 through 1998. This is the
ubiquitous one we all know and love. One of the all-time classic
chanters, I think. The plastic model has a kind of stair-step "sole"
on it, while the solo model has a very plain unmarked block of wood on
the bottom.
The Mark III came out late in 1998 and can be identified by redesigned
(longer, no stair-steps) bottom. Clunkier looking, in my opinion.
John Mitchell
<mark...@my-deja.com> wrote in
>
> Impractical for amateurs? Are they practical for pros then? Quite a
> paradox.
They seem to be alot of bother to setup, and sending them back
and forth to you until their right is just silly.
For the money and effort, you can get set of ezee's that
will be more than adequate for the average player.
The new Duatone reeds look very promising, nice mellow tone,
steady as a rock and best of all thier plug and play.
When looking for drone reeds, ease of setup has to be a
major concideration for the Amatuer players. The pros
know how to tweek thier reeds, but sending them back to the
manufacturer tells me that these reeds are not adjustable.
What good is that in the field?
Question for you Mark!
You seem to be a little concerned about my knocking your reeds.
What do you care if any, I thought you were just doing this as a hobby
and were hoping that someone would eventually pickup the manufacturing
from you.
So what's at stake here, have you changed your mind?
Has this become a business now?
John Mitchell
Beginnertunes <beginn...@aol.com> wrote in
> know they're soooooo good up there, and everyone "down here" just sucks.
I'm sure "everyone" is glad that you pulled them into your class Bill!
John Mitchell
madman <athert...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>
> (Now this is really funny)
> So Jake plays these "pipes"..eh?
> (yeah,right)
Ummmm! Yea Jake Watson is playing a set of Silver MacCallums!
Jake just doesn't pawn any set of pipes, you can ask him for yourself.
For more imformation on Watson Reeds and MacCallum pipes contact
PM Jake Watson at jwa...@sgci.com or just chat with him at 519-576-0104
> You'll defend some glue-mores of course,but you'll go ballistic
> when someone says Alasdair is playing the pink Krons.(he is of course)
> (or when I mention the rockets)
I'll beleive it, when I see it.
> Incomplete list of Rocket Players.
Oh come on Dave, you guys are famous for sending out
samples, then invoicing them after 30 days.
Just ask the British Shop, oops wasn't that the promo that
back fired on you after you claimed that a certain PS of
a famous GR1 band in Ontario here, just couldn't wait to pay you
for the $300 Phanolic Chanter that he didn't like so much.
Yep, if it weren't for you three, the piping world would be lost!
We need you to tell us how to make a bagpipe, Mark lee to show
us how to make reeds, and Royce to tell us how to setup reeds
by running them under the tap.
Next you'll be telling us how to play them. Oh too late!
I forgot Royce has already instructed the Scottish players
how to play a proper strathpey!
John Mitchell
<lb...@my-deja.com> wrote in
> hmm. I'm starting to see why Willie McCallum Isn't a poster any more!
> He was a semi-regular for 3 years!! then suddenly vanished. next thing
> you know he's cleaning up the boards at all the major contests! I
> wonder If there's a plausible connection with good piping and not
> spending time on the newsgroup!Tim
Why should any experienced player have to put up with the
likes of Royce and his puppets.
I've been told many a time that this NG is strictly for the newbies
to learn something, there's no place here for the likes of Willie McCallum,
Murry Henderson, Lindsay Kirkwood or Micheal Grey.
All past posters!
Paul Gretton
Paul Gretton wrote:
>
> Chris Hamilton wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, 01 Feb 2000 01:02:17 GMT, pmle...@wavetech.net (Royce
> > Lerwick) wrote:
> >
> > >On Sun, 30 Jan 2000 15:22:09 +0900, Paula & Takeshi
> > ><paula-...@amy.hi-ho.ne.jp> wrote:
> >
> > >>Royce, why NOT THE NEW MARK III?
> > >
> > >I've personally only had one sail by me, and it was a pretty good
> > >chanter but did not take reeds well except the *old* Shepherd, but
> > >those are now hard to get and the new Shepherds are not working well
> > >in those or any other chanters.
> > >
> > >Chris H--pipe in here.
> >
> > Okay ...
> >
> > I've tried one Mark III a fair bit, and handled a few others. The one
> > I had was really flat on the top hand and very high-pitched on the
> > bottom, with a very shallow reed seat. The others were not quite so
> > shallow in the seat, but still nothing like the ubiquitous and
> > much-beloved Mark II.
> >
> > The solution? Cram the reed WAY down in to balance the top and
> > bottom. But then you've got a real high pitch, higher than I for one
> > like. So it didn't suit my fancy.
> >
> > Also, it really only accepts very narrow staple reeds. The newer
> > model Shepherd reed, if you've seen it, works well in these chanters.
> > It appears that Iain Macey and Duncan Soutar reeds go pretty well too.
> >
> > The new Shepherd reeds need a lot of hemping up to work well in the
> > older Mark II chanters, but they work great as is in the new chanter.
> >
> > at a nice pitch, not too high and not too low. Gotta tape the top
> > hand a lot, but ya can't have everything. A great chanter, one of the
> > all-time greats I think.
> >
> > Chris
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > Chris Hamilton -- Tone...@erols.com
> > City of Washington Pipe Band
> > http://toneczar.freeservers.com/
autumn of 1997.
Paul Gretton
*****Present mirth hath present laughter.(Twelfth Night)*****
lb...@my-deja.com
He was a semi-regular for 3 years!! then suddenly vanished. next thing
you know he's cleaning up the boards at all the major contests! I
wonder If there's a plausible connection with good piping and not
spending time on the newsgroup!Tim
Beginnertunes
>us how to make reeds, and Royce to tell us how to setup reeds
You said it...
Beginnertunes
>
You did that in your original post.
oshpiper
lb...@my-deja.com wrote:
> ...I
> wonder If there's a plausible connection with good piping and not
> spending time on the newsgroup!Tim
You might want to be careful about comparing John's current level of
playing to his activity on the newsgroup. He might not like that
reference.
Pat
mark...@my-deja.com
"John Mitchell" <sunn...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Just ask the British Shop, oops wasn't that the promo that
> back fired on you after you claimed that a certain PS of
> a famous GR1 band in Ontario here, just couldn't wait to pay you
> for the $300 Phanolic Chanter that he didn't like so much.
If he didn't like the chanter so well, why didn't he return it to Kron?
Mark
Bob Cameron
John Mitchell wrote:
Snippage
> The new Duatone reeds look very promising, nice mellow tone,
> steady as a rock and best of all thier plug and play.
>
They do indeed look promising, but some players I've talked to find them somewhat
unsteady for inexperienced players. They're fairly light - blowing reeds as
packaged to boot, and I don't think plug-and play is quite accurate, based on the
one set I've actually heard played. I played a gig on Jan 6, at night, on Beacon
Hill.(Boston) temperature was in the mid 20's (below 0 Celsius). I was playing a
set og G&M's, Henderson Harmonics in the tenors, Wygent (1st model) Bass. My pipes
played solid for 3o minutes, then a 5 minute break, then a thor 15 or so, out in
the cold. My partner on the sam gig had a set of Duatones in his pipes, and could
not keep them going. They were probably just too light for his chanter, but
certainly "plug and play" doesn't fit the experience here.
The Duatones might indeed be plug and play for some pipers- John Mitchell being
one, I expect- but they're not quite one-size-fits -all. I don't believe any reed
is really plug and play for all makes of pipes, nor could it be.
Mark Lee's reeds are not intended to be one-size-fits-all or "Plug and Play". as I
understand it, they're meant to be custome fitted (tailored?) for each set-up.
For the price of either Duatones or Mark Lee's custom reeds a piper could get
nearly two sets of Ezee's, Henderson Harmonics, or the original Wygent Synthedrone,
or three of the original Sheperd's, for that matter.
I don't think any one make of reed or any one make of pipes is the be-all and
end-all for all of us, but there are some pipers who bounce from one new gimmick
to the next with the enthusiasm of Mr Toad with a new mania to pursue. As for
me, I'm happy with my current set-up for the kinds of gigs I play , for now at
least. I think both of the Marks, Lee and Wygent , are producing excellent reeds
for some pipers, neither is producing THE REED for all of us, and neither is
foisting worthless goods on unsuspecting imbeciles.
madman
>
> Ummmm! Yea Jake Watson is playing a set of Silver MacCallums!
> Jake just doesn't pawn any set of pipes, you can ask him for yourself.
So a guy who was formerly intimately involved with Gibson,has
dropped him like a bad habit.
I see.
I'd like to see the receipt for those pipes....
> > You'll defend some glue-mores of course,but you'll go ballistic
> > when someone says Alasdair is playing the pink Krons.(he is of course)
> > (or when I mention the rockets)
>
> I'll beleive it, when I see it.
You were not invited to the Queen Mary John.
So I doubt you'll see it,but OTOH I'll expect an apology when
Gillies comes back to Pittsburgh with his prize money in tow,that he won
with the pink KRONS and the Phenolic, and the Rockets.
>
> > Incomplete list of Rocket Players.
>
> Oh come on Dave, you guys are famous for sending out
> samples, then invoicing them after 30 days.
Lies.
John Mitchell
Bob Cameron <bcam...@mail.berklee.edu> wrote in
> the cold. My partner on the sam gig had a set of Duatones in his pipes,
and could
> not keep them going. They were probably just too light for his chanter,
but
> certainly "plug and play" doesn't fit the experience here.
Sounds like the water build up swelled the chanter reed, making the reed
harder
and blowing out the drone reeds, but the conditions you describe aren't
exactley good conditions to be playing any musical instrument in.
What bag was he using?
> The Duatones might indeed be plug and play for some pipers- John Mitchell
being
> one, I expect- but they're not quite one-size-fits -all. I don't believe
any reed
> is really plug and play for all makes of pipes,
Well at one time, there was no choice, it was cane reeds for everyone.
One size had to fit all, but there's no reason why one size can't fit all
with abit of adjustment from the player.
> For the price of either Duatones or Mark Lee's custom reeds a piper could
get
> nearly two sets of Ezee's, Henderson Harmonics, or the original Wygent
Synthedrone,
> or three of the original Sheperd's, for that matter.
Yea, it's hard to beat a good set of Eeze's, I play 2 Ezee' in the tenors
and a Watson
Inverted Cane in the Bass. Excellent combination!
>
> I don't think any one make of reed or any one make of pipes is the be-all
and
> end-all for all of us
So true, there are so many sets of rubbish Henderson's out there, but the
mear
name send people into a bidding frenzy when a set is available.
The best thing to do if your not sure is to get hold of a professional
and have them take a look at your setup.
Saves alot of time and money!
at yuor setup
lb...@my-deja.com
oshpiper <oshp...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> In article <878ab6$km0$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> lb...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > ...I
> > wonder If there's a plausible connection with good piping and not
> > spending time on the newsgroup!Tim
>
> You might want to be careful about comparing John's current level of
> playing to his activity on the newsgroup. He might not like that
> reference.
>
> Pat
have to qualify that this rule only stands for solo's. Not because It's
nescesarily true, but everyone feels better, and well thats just the
American way!Tim
mark...@my-deja.com
> They seem to be alot of bother to setup, and sending them back
> and forth to you until their right is just silly.
But not as silly as pissing and moaning about a problem which is easily
solved.
> For the money and effort, you can get set of ezee's that
> will be more than adequate for the average player.
Or cane, or Wygents, or Hendersons....
> The new Duatone reeds look very promising, nice mellow tone,
> steady as a rock and best of all thier plug and play.
Quite nice when re-fitted with glass tongues - .015" works best.
> When looking for drone reeds, ease of setup has to be a
> major concideration for the Amatuer players.
Even more consideration is given to steadiness.
>The pros
> know how to tweek thier reeds, but sending them back to the
> manufacturer tells me that these reeds are not adjustable.
A reed well-fitted to its drone will not require field adjustments.
> Question for you Mark!
>
> You seem to be a little concerned about my knocking your reeds.
> What do you care if any, I thought you were just doing this as a hobby
> and were hoping that someone would eventually pickup the manufacturing
> from you.
I recall mentioning something like that to Ron Bowen. When you kids
get together, it must be worse than a sewing-circle.
> So what's at stake here, have you changed your mind?
> Has this become a business now?
Taking notes?
Mark
Ccc31807
wrote:
>> The new Duatone reeds look very promising, nice mellow tone,
>> steady as a rock and best of all thier plug and play.
>
>Quite nice when re-fitted with glass tongues - .015" works best.
Question: What is this "glass," how does it come, and who
manufactures it?
>> When looking for drone reeds, ease of setup has to be a
>> major concideration for the Amatuer players.
>
>Even more consideration is given to steadiness.
>
This is true.
>>The pros
>> know how to tweek thier reeds, but sending them back to the
>> manufacturer tells me that these reeds are not adjustable.
>
>A reed well-fitted to its drone will not require field
adjustments.
It seems to me that the pitch of the chanter is also a major
consideration. I don't know what constitutes "field adjustments"
and what constitutes "tuning" by manipulation the tuning screw,
bridle, and setting of the reed, but I do know that whenever I
change chanters, I have to spend about an hour or so tuning the
drone reeds (I am currently playing Henderson's) to match the
pitch of the chanter. Seems to me that a drone reed will always
require these types of field adjustments in spite of the fact
that it may be well fitted to the drone.
(The optimim tuning range of my drones seems to be about half a
semitone. The pitch variation of my chanters seems to be at
least a semitone, and depending on the reed, sometimes more.)
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Bob Cameron
John Mitchell wrote:
> Bob Cameron <bcam...@mail.berklee.edu> wrote snip
>
> > certainly "plug and play" doesn't fit the experience here.
>
> Sounds like the water build up swelled the chanter reed, making the reed
> harder
> and blowing out the drone reeds, but the conditions you describe aren't
> exactley good conditions to be playing any musical instrument in.
Quite so, but that's the way it goes when you're the hired gun, so to speak-
different set of challenges from the comp. circle, but carries it's own cares and
rewards.
The reeds started choking within seconds once we started playing outside- hardly
time for water build-up.
> What bag was he using?
I think it was a Ross canister bag. FWIW, I was using one of those Canmores that
"nobody " uses.
>
> snip- cost comparison
>
> > I don't think any one make of reed or any one make of pipes is the be-all
> and
> > end-all for all of us
>
> Snip
I think I need to point out that I'm not trying to trash the Duatones- they were
probably not set up correctly for the conditions- he has them set for light
pressure- that's his choice, but it didn't help him under the conditions.
The point here is that you can't refer to something as plug-and-play in one breath,
and then go on about adjust and tweaking in the next- seems to me Plug and play and
tweaking are opposite terms, unless one means PLUG in now and PLAY eventually after
adjusting/tweaking, getting somebody else to do it.
JOhn Mitchell
> Royce Lerwick wrote:
> > comments. What apparently happened instead, is it vanished for some
> > months without a mention, and then finally, you happened into the
> > shop, gave it a blow, crapped all over it on the newsgroup,
I didn't just wonder in, is was there on business concerning the
the British Shops computer system and I made it a point to try
that lame excuse of a chanter after wee Davie's Rampant
Boosting of how a famous PS couldn't wait to pay for his
$300 dollar Phenolic. It didn't disappear as you say, he knew
all along where it is and as usuall he was looking for some
cheap publicity by trying to use Ian's name.
Madman wrote in:
> Heres the truth of the matter.
> Ian had Mark Lees prototype,he placed an *order*,I sent him a bill.
> As a matter of *fact*,after John Boy posted his "review",
> I got on the al capone w/ Ian and asked if indeed any of this was true.
> He told me that Johns comments are Johns comments and he wanted nothing
> to do with Johns spontaneous bitching on any NG anywhere.
What he was doing Dave was to politely tell you to fuckoff!
Ian doesn't want to get caught in your petty publicity scam!
In truth, sooner or later when your customers get beat week
after week, because they can't produce good tone from that fire wood
you sell them, then they'll ditch those pieces of Junk and upgrade to one
of many better sets available to them!
You come on here,and pretend that your so knowledgeable about
turning bagpipes by reciting manufacturing processes and calculations
of surface areas and pitch.
Well any door knob can get out the Machinist handbook and start typing.
Christ, I could get a GR10 shop student to turn out the same crap that you
do.
Your a lathe turner Dave, nothing else! your not a business owner, a piper
and
your not even a good salesman.
It's a good thing Charlie's oldman has enough money to keep that dump
afloat!