Dirks - who can wear them ?
Lewis M Coward
Can anyone assist me by telling who can, or cannot
wear dirks in a pipe band ? Is their a particular rank
that is only allowed to wear the large dirk ( on belt )
as opposed to wearing the dirk ( if that's it's correct name )
in the sock that every member carries.
Thanking you for your assstance.
Lewis M Coward
Mickpiper
In California, nobody can. They are illegal from what I understand. Skhin
dubhs <sp> on the other hand can be worn. Hell, maybe they are illegal
too but who cares.
It's funny, you can smoke a big fat doobie here but you can't wear a knife
on your belt.
Brian
CGlendin
ahhhhhhhhh!
...California!
Kevin Scott
types at the Highland games. I don't know who in a band would want to
wear it because it would get in the way of other things.
The knife in the hose is called a Skean Dubh, pronounced Ski-an Do. It
means black knife. There are as many tales of how this name came to be.
One is that Scottish men were forbidden to carry arms. A common law that
the ruling class tries to impose on the common people. This knife which
was and is a work knife was hidden on your body. In polite company it
was placed for all to see in your sock for all to see. Skean Dubh
however are similar to icebergs in that the one visible is The only the
weapon that you are meant see.
Kevin
Kevin Scott
Years ago when I graduated from College the main guest speaker was a
goverment leech that owed the college president a favor so he showed up
to give us dweebs a speech. I wore my kilt complete with skean dubh.
There happened to be a secret service agent or two near the podium as I
went to receive my diploma. Thay did a double take and I just kept
coming figuring if you guys want a problem you've got one. I did receive
the sheepskin. That, by the way, is as close to sheepskin as I ever want
to come.
Kevin
Iain Lang
>
>Can anyone assist me by telling who can, or cannot
>wear dirks in a pipe band ? Is their a particular rank
>that is only allowed to wear the large dirk ( on belt )
>as opposed to wearing the dirk ( if that's it's correct name )
>in the sock that every member carries.
>
>Thanking you for your assstance.
>
>
>Lewis M Coward
In our Band the rank of Sgt or above entitles you to wear a dirk.
This is because of the cost of the dirk most of all. Usually all
pipers wore a dirk and drummer wore a drummers sword which was about
the same size but looks like a sword. We have to go by regimental
dress regulations that a civilian band would not.
As for the legal question, we secure the dirk so it is tied into the
frog and cannot be removed esily preventing it from falling out and
from anyone grabbing it to steal or use. It also prevent the you from
using the dirk when engaged in a heated beer tent discussion.
Aparently in Ontario that is enough to avoid the claim that it is a
weapon. If secured it is a ceremonial ornament and legal.
Iain Lang
************************************************************************
Iain Lang
Dileas Gu Brath
48th Highlanders of Canada Pipes and Drums
il...@sympatico.ca
www3.sympatico.ca/ilang/pipeband.html
RadioS2406
This opens up the discussion of whether or not musicians should wear
weapons at all.
If there is a military affiliation (i.e. the 48th Highlanders of Canada)
then the symbolism is obvious, but if you are a piper or a pipe band
without military affiliation, why wear a dirk? Or even a sgian dhu (sp)
??
When I perform, I like people to focus on the music. I find that when I
perform in "normal" attire, rather than a kilt, people tend to get into
the music far sooner, since they don't have to spend time getting over the
novelty of seeing a man in a kilt.
Don't get me wrong, I still proudly wear a kilt on occasions where it's
called for (weddings, funerals, Burns Dinners, and most any other
ceremonial occasion), but when I wear "normal" clothing, I find people
treat me as a performing musician, rather than some kind of novelty act.
I'll also wear the kilt any time I play for an audience of children, just
for the cultural aspect.
The military symbolism of the pipes has been hard to overcome with some
audiences. One man came to me after a performance and said "I was on the
beach at Normandy, and hearing the pipes brings back tremendous memories.
How come you don't have that knife in your sock?" My reply was "Thank you
for enjoying my music, sir, but I don't wear the knife because I'm a
musician, not a soldier." He was a bit confused by the concept, but
that's ok. In his mind, the pipes will forever be etched into memory with
a military connection.
Anyone else share my philosphy, or am I a lone piper playing in the
wilderness?
Scott McClellan
Battle Creek, Michigan
Seth...@aol.com
basically, this is an age-old issue....
very simple...it's the large dirks that seperate the men from the wee
laddies......I carry an extra large myself...extra long sporran too....(long
horsehair..for those of us with need...)
:)
Stephen Clarke
Kevin Scott wrote:
>
> Lewis M Coward wrote:
> >
> > Can anyone assist me by telling who can, or cannot
> > wear dirks in a pipe band ? Is their a particular rank
> > that is only allowed to wear the large dirk ( on belt )
> > as opposed to wearing the dirk ( if that's it's correct name )
> > in the sock that every member carries.
> >
> > Thanking you for your assstance.
> >
> > Lewis M Coward
> types at the Highland games. I don't know who in a band would want to
> wear it because it would get in the way of other things.
> The knife in the hose is called a Skean Dubh, pronounced Ski-an Do. It
> means black knife. There are as many tales of how this name came to be.
> One is that Scottish men were forbidden to carry arms. A common law that
> the ruling class tries to impose on the common people. This knife which
> was and is a work knife was hidden on your body. In polite company it
> was placed for all to see in your sock for all to see. Skean Dubh
> however are similar to icebergs in that the one visible is The only the
> weapon that you are meant see.
> Kevin
All bets are off on who wears what in a pipe band. The "rules" of
Scottish attire don't really apply since a band member is in a uniform.
In a band I was with in Colorado, the drummers wore them, if they had
them, but mostly I think you see the drum major wear them. He needs to
be all duded up and attracting alot of attention out front of the band.
Personally, I wouldn't wear one 'cause it's a bit much, but Hey, be
yourself! A good reference for this kind of stuff is "So You Want to
Wear the Kilt" by C. Thompson. But then, you probably already know
that!
Steve
James Park
At 10:04 PM 4/4/97 GMT, you wrote:
>In California, nobody can. They are illegal from what I understand. Skhin
>dubhs <sp> on the other hand can be worn. Hell, maybe they are illegal
>too but who cares.
>It's funny, you can smoke a big fat doobie here but you can't wear a knife
>on your belt.
>
>Brian
>
knife, legal or not, so when piping at a public school, it is wise to leave
all weaponry at home. Also, I found that the boys would fixate on the sgian
dubh or dirk and ignore everything else.
Jim Park, Sacramento
>
>
Richard L. Worthington
At 11:16 AM -0700 4/4/97, Lewis M Coward wrote:
>Can anyone assist me by telling who can, or cannot
>wear dirks in a pipe band ? Is their a particular rank
>that is only allowed to wear the large dirk ( on belt )
>as opposed to wearing the dirk ( if that's it's correct name )
>in the sock that every member carries.
>
Dirks:
For bands, preferably with military style uniforms only, or with evening wear.
If it is truly part of the uniform, they should all match and
everyone should have one.
P/M's often have a fancier dirk, with knife and fork.
Pipers dirks, by definition, have no knife or fork.
Of course, each band has its own uniform standards, but the term "uniform"
suggests uniformity.
For individuals, dirks are usually only worn with a Prince Charlie,
Montrose, regulation doublet, etc., and as you might assume, are for
evening wear only.
Unlike the sgian dubh (the knife in your sock), the dirk is a weapon. For
most of us, this means it stays at home except for formal occasions when
the shoe buckles and brooches come out of hiding as well. Some people do
like to wear a dirk with daywear (often seen with kilt, polo shirt and
suede cowboy hat).
If your band is interested in dirks, there is a nice (Indian made) copy of
the current military issue pipers dirk, which sells for around $79 US.
They really do look nice, and have nickle hardware.
Unfortunately, nice civilian style dirks start around $600 US.
Rich Worthington
Badger Pipes and Drums, UW-Madison
http://www.waisman.wisc.edu/~macpherson/hbauwm.html
Bill Carr
For what its worth.
I think a lot of men who wear a Kilt (I am not talking about pipers in
particular) also wear a Dirk or Skean Dubh to counter balance the notion
(or fear) that others might see the Kilt as something feminine.
Here in Norway the Kilt is mostley refered to as a skirt. A man wearing
a skirt? Yes but watch out he's got a great big knife!
Bill Carr
Kevin Scott
tool. Many older men still carry a pocket knife as a general working
tool. This is all a skead dubh is. It was only worn in the sock as a
polite gesture to your host so all could see that you were armed. This
is not to say it was never used as a weapon. Just as carrying a knife is
not illegal carrying a switch blade is. It is also rude manners as is a
dirk in a true musical group. I've seen the dirk carried by the road
warrior types at the games and it looks really bad. Now if the dirk is
nonfunctioning it is similar to a mock rifle in a military drill team.
Have you ever seen a squad of dirk brandishing soldiers go through the
drill?
Kevin
Kevin Scott
Stephen Clarke wrote:
>
> Kevin Scott wrote:
> >
> > Lewis M Coward wrote:
> > >
> > > Can anyone assist me by telling who can, or cannot
> > > wear dirks in a pipe band ? Is their a particular rank
> > > that is only allowed to wear the large dirk ( on belt )
> > > as opposed to wearing the dirk ( if that's it's correct name )
> > > in the sock that every member carries.
> > >
wear what.
Michael A. Flight
...
> >
> > Thanking you for your assstance.
> >
> > Lewis M Coward
> The only people that I have ever seen wearing a dirk is the road
warrior
> types at the Highland games. I don't know who in a band would want
to
> wear it because it would get in the way of other things.
> The knife in the hose is called a Skean Dubh, pronounced Ski-an Do.
It
> means black knife. There are as many tales of how this name came to
be.
> One is that Scottish men were forbidden to carry arms. A common law
that
> the ruling class tries to impose on the common people. This knife
which
> was and is a work knife was hidden on your body. In polite company
it
> was placed for all to see in your sock for all to see. Skean Dubh
> however are similar to icebergs in that the one visible is The only
the
> weapon that you are meant see.
> Kevin
>
Sorry to intrude, but I think the correct spelling is: SGIAN DUBH.
Please advise if not so. Regards,
Mike Flight
mfl...@starnet.net.ar
Iain Lang
If people are not listenig to the music because they are looking at
your attire then I fell that they are either not interested in the
music to begin with or don't like what they hear. Good music will
always be noticed and looking the part (well dressed in kilt or other
dress) will only inhance the performance. You very seldom see a slopy
open professional player at the big name contests.
Kevin Scott
I have seen it written in so many ways I write it the way I last saw it.
At the time I wrote this I looked in a Scottish import catalog to see
how they spelled it. It looks like they also have it wrong. I don't
think that anyone missed the point however.
Kevin
Kevin Scott
> your ear must not be that good if they sound as good as what cane reeds do.
I received this as a private e-mail regarding wygent reeds. Does this
make sense? I think composite drone reeds are the new wave of reeds and
wygents are the latest in the line of developement. There will be
better. What's with the personal attack. Use cane if you want.
Kevin
RadioS2406
Iain Lang writes:
> You very seldom see a slopy
open professional player at the big name contests.
You're absolutely right, but contests were not even a consideration in my
original message. A competitor at a Highland Games should always be in
proper uniform, as it's all part of the spectacle of a Highland Games.
Scott McClellan
Lyle Walker
That's the problem with this ng. In the past couple of years, anybody with
a pc and a keyboard is now an expert and sends out the nasty-grams with
little or no thought behind it. I've heard plenty of lousy cane reed
set-ups and not every cane reed is a good one, either.
Lyle Walker
Kevin Scott <piob...@pop3.concentric.net> wrote in article
<33499D...@pop3.concentric.net>...
Jeremy Cowan
Richard L. Worthington wrote:
> Pipers dirks, by definition, have no knife or fork.
Please pardon my ignorance as I am new to piping. Should I, as a piper, be eating my
food without utensils at Burn's Night? Or is that only if I am piping AT the dinner?
Jeremy
Gay Piper
I'm sorry, I didn't recall a personal attack, but if I did, I certainly
apologize. However, what I said is true; Bob Worrall himself swears by
them, and so does our entire band. Granted, they are not quite up to
cane, but they're the closest thing we've found so far, and we're a
band that refuses to go with such innovations as Canmore bags, etc.
Lyle Walker
If you're an experienced piper, you can use your drone reeds in the manner
of 'chopsticks'. If you're still a novice, ...not allowed anything. If
you're really experienced you can just eat with the dirk as long as you
don't cut up your lips which will make a bloody mess of everything.
Lyle
Jeremy Cowan <j-c...@neiu.edu> wrote in article <334AF3...@neiu.edu>...
Lola
seth...@aol.com wrote:
>basically, this is an age-old issue....
>very simple...it's the large dirks that seperate the men from the wee
>laddies......I carry an extra large myself...extra long sporran too....(long
>horsehair..for those of us with need...)
>:)
Which all goes to prove an old addage I learned when I started playing...
the bigger the [insert choice of accessory here: dirk, feather in
balmoral, silly hat, etc.] the bigger the eejit.
Kevin Scott
Wait, wait! You feel that marching bands have their place but, the
regalia needs to be limited in some manner? Perhaps,we need to think
about this.
Kevin
Lyle Walker
Probably another guy who just got his pc last month and read another
chapter in a book somewhere. If some of the major bands and major
competitors are playing the Synth-drones, I'd find it hard to believe they
were sacrificing any tone or sound but not using cane!
cheers,