Small Pipes
brian
I'm looking to diverse into small pipes. Bellows blown, with three drones
(Tenor, Bass, Barritone).
Does anyone know any good makers in Scotland? An idea about prices would be
good too!
Thanks,
Brian
Don Robertson
JOHN BROADWELL
Herriott and Allan, in the same area. Hamish Moore in Dunkeld is also very
good.
I have only heard these maker's pipes so cannot comment anyone elses.
John
brian <bhsc...@cableinet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:w9fT5.5612$ws2.8...@news3.cableinet.net...
Jim McGillivray
> Brian, Colin Ross in Whitley Bay Northumberland is a very good maker, as are
> Herriott and Allan, in the same area. Hamish Moore in Dunkeld is also very
> good.
>
> I have only heard these maker's pipes so cannot comment anyone elses.
These are all good makers. I have become a big fan of Ray Sloan in the last
year. (Before I continue I must confess that I sell Ray's Scottish Smallpipes
through my business, but that was after I became a fan.) I began with a set of
Ray's Northumbrian smallpipes and was blown away by the sound and the details of
craftsmanship. I also found Ray very accomodating in my dealings with him. I
subsequently tried his SSP and I think what I liked most was how reliably they
went -- chanter in tune, three drones going right of the bat and good
steadiness. With at least one other maker, while I found the pipes gorgeous in
sound and appearance, it seemed I was always fussing with them. They just didn't
adapt to the extremes of North American climate. I'm a complete convert now and
play a custom set with both a baritone and an alto drone, as well as a 17-key F#
set of Northumbrians. The modern SSP actually derived from the Northumbrian
smallpipe makers, so there is something to be said about having an NSP maker
make your SSP. I also find Ray very open-minded to new trends, and when I made
a couple of suggestions about things he might do to make his instruments more
attractive to Highland pipers he was very receptive.
Now remember -- I may be biased, but I'm also a happy smallpiper.
Cheers,
Jim McGillivray
McGillivray Piping Partnerships
Http://www.piping.on.ca
Jim McGillivray
Bduty wrote:
> Jim,
> regarding;
>
> >I'm a complete convert now and
> >play a custom set with both a baritone and an alto drone, as well as a 17-key
> F#
> >set of Northumbrians. The modern SSP actually derived from the Northumbrian
> >smallpipe makers, so there is something to be said about having an NSP maker
> >make your SSP.
>
> I am an American Revolutionary Reenactor that plays his pipes at events. I
> usually take my SSPs also. I was crushed when I found out that SSPs are a
> modern insturment, and not really correct for the historical period I portray.
> I understand that the NSPs are correct for this period
> (1770s).
>
> My question is: how similar to GHB fingering is the NSP? Is it totaly
> different or are they close. I ask because I have limited time and would
> probably not get a chance to learn a new instrument, as much as I would like
> to. I would consider buying a set of NSP if they are close.
>
> My thanks in advance,
> Bruce
Bruce:
I think it depends on how good your GHB fingers are. The NSP use one finger at a
time, and they use the fingertips. However, they also have a system of keys that
substantially widens the range. All the keys are worked with the right thumb and
left pinky. It's an absolutely gorgeous instrument, but very finicky. As pipes
go, once you can tune it and use a bellows and start getting used to the
fingering, it's fairly straightforward to teach yourself. There is very little
gracing compared to the GHB, and you can play as much or as little as you want.
If you want to know more, a great place to start is the Northumbrian Smallpipes
Encyclopedia. It teaches you a lot and can get you connected very quickly. Have a
look at it, and if there is anything else I can help you with, let me know;
http://www.nspipes.co.uk/nsp/
Cheers,
Jim
http://www.piping.on.ca
Ruiseart agus Ceit
> Hi Guys,
>I'm looking to diverse into small pipes. Bellows blown, >with three drones
>(Tenor, Bass, Barritone).
>Does anyone know any good makers in Scotland? An >idea about prices would
>be
>good too!
>Thanks,
>Brian
You could try Julian Goodacre. I believe his pipes are excellent.
http://www.goodacrepipes.mcmail.com/
Beannachd oirbh,
Ruiseart.
--------------------
Ruiseart agus Ceit
(Joint Chiefs of G.D.O.S.C.)
(Foundation Members of the A.D.C.)
http://druid.drak.net/druid/druidorder.html
http://ravenswing.bizland.com/
Bduty
Iain Richardson
based in Ireland). They are beautifully made and have a fine sound. I have
played them several times a week over the last 3 years and have never had a
problem with reeds, bellows, etc. They were made to order and were not
expensive.
Email me if you want contact details.
Cheers
Iain Richardson, Aberdeen, Scotland
iai...@bigfoot.com
Matt Buckley
Take a serious look at smallpipes made by Hamish Moore, Colin Ross,
Ray Sloan, Michael Dow and Heriot & Allan. All of the makers are in the
UK, with the exception of Michael Dow (US).
I play and love my Moore pipes, and have found that I have experienced no
difficulties in the pipes adapting to the North American climate. My
chanter
reed is ten-years old and going perfectly. The drones are rock solid after
a minute or two of tuning/warming up, and two of three drone reeds are in
their tenth year.
Cheers. Matt
me...@skyway.usask.ca
(so you can do staccato).
chris
Millenium
Matt Buckley <bdrp...@together.net> escribió en el mensaje de noticias
01c05621$5bf0ef80$a62c5bd1@default...
JOHN BROADWELL
Jim McGillivray wrote : -
> I'm a complete convert now and play a custom set with both a baritone
> and an alto drone, as well as a 17-> key F# set of Northumbrians. The
> modern SSP actually derived from the Northumbrian smallpipe makers, > so
there is something to be said about having an NSP maker make your > SSP
Jim, I play a set of Colin Ross's SSP in A with bass, tenor and alto drones,
lovely sound and in Colin's case, it is as you say, he is primarily an NSP
maker. His NSP are very sought after in that community. I knew about the
quality of Colin's pipes back in the early seventies.
I played a basic seven key set of Northumbrians for a year or so some time
ago and I grew very fond of them, but 17 keys, phew!! that's some
instrument!! That's almost two octaves and makes them playable at orchestral
level. I admire your courage :-)
How difficult are they to manage?
Good luck
John Broadwell
Robert Dunn
http://www.hamishmoore.musicscotland.com
Millenium <mill...@iespana.es> wrote in message
news:8vmf54$7on$1...@talia.mad.ttd.net...
Jim McGillivray
JOHN BROADWELL wrote:
John:
Seventeen keys on a Northumbrian chanter are about three more than I'll ever
need, but the Ray Sloan pipes came up for sale and I grabbed them without
hesitation. I use about 11 keys right now, and the extra keys don't get in the
way of the traditional seven, though they can be more of a maintenance hassle. I
find I'm picking up the instrument quite quickly. It helped that I knew how to
work a bellows. One thing I've learned is that the very intricate fingering of
Highland pipes and all that dedicated 'rhythmic fingerwork' I did for so many
years provides a great foundation of agility and control for other pipes.
As for Colin Ross's pipemaking, he's one of the NSP and fiddling world's
best-kept secrets. I have a set of Northumbrians on order from Colin Ross and
should be receiving my 14-key chanter in about two weeks, with the rest of the
pipes coming in the New Year sometime. Colin's and Ray's pipes are generally
considered top o' the line and my Ray Sloan F# set sounds so gorgeous you'd
swear there were angels in the house. Philip Gruar, Richard Evans, Heriot &
Allan and Dave Shaw are also superb if not equally good NSP makers. There are
other amateur makers I know little about. Colin is generally considered the
"inventor" or "adaptor" of the modern Scottish smallpipe. A customer of his came
to him around 1980 looking for an instrument based on NSP principles (bellows,
three drones of different pitches, indoor sound) but with Highland fingering.
That turned into the first set of the genre in about 1982. Ray Sloan, Hamish
Moore, Richard Evans, Heriot and Allan and all the rest came after that, though
of course Ray was a legendary NSP maker before he became an equally good SSP
maker. Colin is a wondrous maker of NSP and SSP, but last I heard his order book
was closed because he had more work than he could handle over the next few
years. I feel fortunate to have gotten on his list for NSP.
It's been fascinating in the past couple of years for me to discover after 35
years ensconced in the rather introverted world of Highland pipes that there is
an astonishingly varied and musical world of bellows-blown smallpipes out there.
Cheers,
Jim
www.piping.on.ca
Matt Buckley
Millenium <mill...@iespana.es> wrote
> Somebody knows Hamish Moore website?
Matt Buckley
Bduty <bd...@aol.com> wrote
> I am an American Revolutionary Reenactor that plays his pipes at events.
I
> usually take my SSPs also. I was crushed when I found out that SSPs are
a
> modern insturment, and not really correct for the historical period I
portray.
Yes and no. Some forms of smallpipes, both mouth-blown and bellows-blown,
did exist in 1770. The Northumbrian pipes are believed to have
started life as a simple open-ended chanter w/o keys. The issue has more
to do with the scale: the old smallpipe chanters found, e.g. the
"Montgomery" chanter, appear to have employed a scale that had a
sharpened 7th. Colin Ross, the modern-day "inventor" of the SSP,
used a Highland scale, e.g. flatted 7th, when making his chanter.
> I understand that the NSPs are correct for this period
> (1770s).
The NSP fingering system is quite different from GHB, but can be learned
fairly easily. The system is "closed", meaning that the end of the chanter
is stopped, and all holes are covered. One sounds a note by lifting one
finger only at a time. Exactly when the change took place from NSP
open chanter/no keys to closed chanter w/keys is not exactly known,
but many believe it to be after 1770. Therefore, except for the G/G#
scale issue, the SSP may be a bit more accurate.
Having said this, if any Revoluntionary War piper had any form of smaller
pipe, it was more than likely a mouth-bown "small" or "half" or "parlor"
set of GHB.
Cheers. Matt
Richard Evans
>> (1770s).
>
>fairly easily. The system is "closed", meaning that the end of the chanter
>is stopped, and all holes are covered. One sounds a note by lifting one
>finger only at a time. Exactly when the change took place from NSP
>open chanter/no keys to closed chanter w/keys is not exactly known,
>but many believe it to be after 1770. Therefore, except for the G/G#
>scale issue, the SSP may be a bit more accurate.
>
>Having said this, if any Revoluntionary War piper had any form of smaller
>pipe, it was more than likely a mouth-bown "small" or "half" or "parlor"
>set of GHB.
>
>
>Cheers. Matt
This is not quite on-topic, but I am reminded that there is a set of
Northumbrian Pipes in the bagpipe museum at Morpeth (Northumberland)
which were played in the American civil War, by one of the Lamshaws.
They are unique, being made from solid brass. The chanter looks like a
casting, with the usual blocks for the key pivots.
The drones are thin-walled brass tubes and are therefore extremely
narrow and spindly.
Ugly but interesting.
Richard
--
Richard Evans
Chris Thomas
I was wondering if you might know the main differences between the Irish Uilleun
(sp) and NSP. I play the GHB now (love your book btw), but thought it might be nice
to expand my horizons so to speak.
-FWIW, I've just ordered that book listed on rmmb here from Blacksomething press on
the U. pipes.
Thanks, Chris.
Jim McGillivray
Chris Thomas wrote:
> Hi Jim,
>
> I was wondering if you might know the main differences between the Irish Uilleun
> (sp) and NSP. I play the GHB now (love your book btw), but thought it might be nice
> to expand my horizons so to speak.
>
> -FWIW, I've just ordered that book listed on rmmb here from Blacksomething press on
> the U. pipes.
>
> Thanks, Chris.
I'm not sure I'm the guy to answer this. I know about Northumbrians, but not so much
about Uilleann. Northumbrian pipes have a permanently closed chanter, meaning that if
you cover all the holes with your fingers the chanter is silent. The Uilleann chanter
can be open or closed, depending on whether the player is holding the chanter bottom
against the leather 'popping strap' on his/her thigh. The Northumbrian pipes have an
elaborate system of keys. The number of keys can range from 7 to as many as 17 or even,
or in rare case 19 or 21, the latter of which can achieve almost two complete chromatic
octaves. The pitch of the NSP is much higher than any other bagpipe, the standard pitch
beng F, with F# and G common as well. They can also be acquired in the key of D. The
drones are quite complex, the minimum number being 4, with 5-drone sets not uncommon.
Each drone has a number of tuning beads -- small holes that can be opened to change the
pitch of a drone from, say, G to A or B. As a result, drones can be tuned to play in a
number of different keys -- G, D, A, E minor and others. The most common key is G, with
D the second most common. You could spend your whole NSP career playing in G and D and
still have a great time.
The music, of course, is quite different, with NSP music quite tame compared to the
Irish tunes. I'd have to say GHB music is closer to Uilleann music than to NSP music.
Both pipes are very sophisticated, much more so than the GHB, particularly when you add
the regulators to the Uilleann. The full Uilleann pipes are a virtual one-man band;
I've heard them called the "Irish Cyclotron", which I found very descriptive. Both are
bellows-blown instruments, with the NSP operating at quite a low pressure, often even
lower than SSP.
The current Piper & Drummer magazine has an article written by Border piper and fiddler
Matt Seattle on the various bellowspipes of mainland Britain -- Border pipes, SSP, NSP,
Pastorals. He doesn't include Uilleann. Perhaps someone else can enlighten us on
those. Like Highland pipers, Uilleann pipers tend to be quite focused on their own
instrument and could quite happily survive without ever hearing another bagpipe.
Cheers,
Jim McGillivray
www.piping.on.ca
C Carter
that's all.
What small pipes (besides Walsh's shuttle pipes, Shepherd's small
pipes, and practice pipes) meet the following criteria?
- mouth blown
- fingered like the GHB
Thanks.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
DicksonDL
practice pipes) meet the following criteria?
- mouth blown
- fingered like the GHB >>
Gibson Fireside pipes. Check:
http://www.gibsonpipes.com/fside.htm
Julian Goodacre also makes a mouthblown version of Scottish smallpipes. Check:
http://WWW.GOODACREPIPES.MCMAIL.COM/bagpipes/scottish_small_pipe.htm
Duane
Chris Thomas
some NSP cd's :)
Chris.
rgou...@my-deja.com
I saw your posting & it seems as if noone has really answered your
original question, unless I missed something.
I used to play Gibson Firesides in D, but have since sold them, and
have put $$ down on a set of B.C. Childress Blackwood "practice"
Uilleann pipes.
Actually, I wish I could have kept the Firesides, as they were very
nice pipes.
But as for you question, the differences are quite large.
Obviously, the bellows, vs. blowpipe.
same number of holes, although you have chanter "keys" which can be
installed in order to give you a greater range of keys that you can
play in.
Mine os coming with an Fnat key.
There are several great websites out there that you oughtta check out,
like:http://www.concentric.net/~pdarcy/page3/page3.shtml
There's almost too much to type here & others have done that sort of
work.
I can tell you why I'm "switching" if you're interested.
I think the Uilleann pipes are extremely expressive; especially due to
the two octave range that you can get.
Everyone had thier type of music they like, so to say that Uilleann
pipes are far above all other "bagpipes" would be foolish.
I simply am pretty much in love with the sound/range etc.
I just watched "Riverdance" for the 1st time two nights ago, & there's
a Uilleann pipe solo - & it solidified my desire to pay these things.
Well, hope some of this helps.
Rich
--
Rich Gouette
Portland, Maine
GOU...@MAIL.MMC.ORG
(207)871-6502
JOHN BROADWELL
> John:
> Seventeen keys on a Northumbrian chanter are about three more than I'll >
ever need.........
Jim, you never know, in time I would hazard a guess you will grow into using
all those keys, it'll keep the grey matter ticking over for a year or two
eh??
> One thing I've learned is that the very intricate fingering of
> Highland pipes and all that dedicated 'rhythmic fingerwork' I did for so
> many years provides a great foundation of agility and control for other
> pipes.
That's good news, over the years I have heard countless GHB players say to
keep well away from playing NSP's as they mess your fingering up, your and
my experience seem to explode that myth, it's a different instrument and I
found I slipped into that instrument's mode when I picked it up. I never
noticed any deterioration in my GHB playing as a result.
> As for Colin Ross's pipemaking, he's one of the NSP and fiddling world's
> best-kept secrets. I have a set of Northumbrians on order from Colin
> Ross and should be receiving my 14-key chanter in about two weeks, > >
with the rest of the pipes coming in the New Year sometime.
Now I am madly jealous :-) this thread has stimulated my interest in NSP's
again, I can see divorce looming on the horizon when I raid the kitty for
yet "another" set of pipes :-) NSP's do have such a seductive sound though,
how can anyone resist them? Colin used to play with The High Level Ranters
for many years, he played Northumbrians, Fiddle and Tin Whistle. On the
album "A Mile to Ride" issued in 1973 Colin plays Gillan the Drover and Neil
Gows Wife on a set of smallpipes (presumably Northumbrian's) and I quote the
sleeve notes "these pieces are played on the original keyless chanter as
played in the 18th c."
> Colin's and Ray's pipes are generally
> considered top o' the line and my Ray Sloan F# set sounds so gorgeous >
you'd swear there were angels in the house. Philip Gruar, Richard
> Evans, Heriot & Allan and Dave Shaw are also superb if not equally good >
NSP makers.
Colin I believe is the "daddy" of them all, and as you say was the prime
mover in the development of SSP's. I have yet to hear Ray Sloan's, Richard
Evans and Philip Gruar's pipes. Dave Shaw's I have heard and played and they
are a lovely pipe with a good loud sound, I attended a one day workshop he
ran in The Chantry Bagpipe Museum in Morpeth ten years ago and he took a
bunch of about a dozen people who had never ever played before and by the
end of the day we were all playing tunes on the pipes...what an amazing guy!
I also once played some of his shuttle pipes, they have a small chanter
similar in size and finger spacing to the NSP's but with an open end and no
keys, though he had put bridges on the chanter just in case keys were wanted
later on.
Dave Burleigh has probably also contributed hugely to the revival of NSP's,
his pipes were generally cheaper and therefore more accessible to people, I
once visited his workshop in Longframlington, he played for me once he knew
I was a piper and he also showed me two sets he was repairing, both of which
were made out of solid ivory.
> Colin is a wondrous maker of NSP and SSP, but last I heard his order
> book was closed because he had more work than he could handle over
> the next few years. I feel fortunate to have gotten on his list for NSP.
Yes I agree, I think I too have been lucky to get my SSP's so recently from
him, I wish you well with your set of NSP's and shall look forward to your
first recording on them :-)
> It's been fascinating in the past couple of years for me to discover after
> 35 years ensconced in the rather introverted world of Highland pipes that
> there is an astonishingly varied and musical world of bellows-blown
> smallpipes out there.
I suppose the person who started me off on Northumbrians was the legendary
Billy Pigg, I bought a record (vinyl) of his in 1971 "The Border Minstrel",
it's a superb recording. His father was a highland piper before him. There
are extensive and very interesting sleeve notes with the record, it's well
worth getting a copy just for them. I suppose I have known about
Northumbrians for almost as long as I have been playing GHB's but it's only
in the last ten years that I did anything about it. I also once flirted with
the idea of Uillean pipes (The Irish Organ) but one try of the chanter and
the HUGE finger spacing put me off for life, I have long fingers and I
couldn't span the holes, I will never understand how people like Paddy
Keenan and Liam O' Flynn can play them so beautifully :-)
Cheers
John Broadwell
--
"Everything that lives, Lives not alone, nor for itself."
Blake 1789
me...@skyway.usask.ca
>in the last ten years that I did anything about it. I also once flirted with
>the idea of Uillean pipes (The Irish Organ) but one try of the chanter and
>the HUGE finger spacing put me off for life, I have long fingers and I
>couldn't span the holes, I will never understand how people like Paddy
>Keenan and Liam O' Flynn can play them so beautifully :-)
>
a "flat set" (C,B or even Bb). I have a UP C chanter which is a bit
of a stretch for me (I don't have long fingers)- something like
the stretch on a wooden D flute.
Chris
cp...@mail.nospamusa.com
wrote:
>The music, of course, is quite different, with NSP music quite tame compared to the
>Irish tunes. I'd have to say GHB music is closer to Uilleann music than to NSP music.
Quite tame music ? Disagree completely. Northumbrian music contains
a vast repertoire of dynamic, vibrant tunes, ranging from soulful
laments to fast jigs and reels. Much of the music is steeped in
local folklore and reflects the history of the north east of England.
The local dialect reflects the Scandanavian ( Viking ) influence.
There are some influences of Scottish tunes, from the Borders and
Irish tunes from the Irish immigrants, who came to Tyneside and the
mining industry around the area. Essentially though, Northumbrian
music developed in its own way as Northumberland and local counties
are not ( even today ) highly populated.
The music is very melodic, rather than repetitive. Interesting, there
was a natural crossover, both backwards and forwards, between tunes
for the fiddle and tunes for the NSP. There is a natural kind of
affinity between the two. The different musicians altering the key to
suit.
Look further into Northumbrian music and I think you will be
pleasantly suprised.
regards
John T Finnigan
u38cg
right. Irish tunes have much more drive and power than any Northumbrian tune I ever
heard, but Northumbrian tunes have a vitality all their own, coming from the sound of the
instrument and the percussive effect of the stopped chanter. Cultural relativity, a great
thing.
cp...@mail.NOSPAMusa.com wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Nov 2000 17:33:15 -0500, Jim McGillivray <jim...@aci.on.ca>
> wrote:
>
> >The music, of course, is quite different, with NSP music quite tame compared to the
> >Irish tunes. I'd have to say GHB music is closer to Uilleann music than to NSP music.
>
n...@replies.co.uk
>I know what both of you mean, and from your own perspective you are both absolutely
>right. Irish tunes have much more drive and power than any Northumbrian tune I ever
>heard, but Northumbrian tunes have a vitality all their own, coming from the sound of the
>instrument and the percussive effect of the stopped chanter. Cultural relativity, a great
>thing.
>
Yes, the NSP is not really suited to Irish type rythm, but plenty a
fast tune is played on them. In fact, it can be a fast instrument in
the right hands.
It is deceptive, as they a not an intrusive instrument and the quieter
sound gives the impression of a more background played instrument.
We'll just 'mike' them up a bit. Actually, some players are doing
this. Sorry, can't remember the names.
regards
John T Finnigan