Bagpipe Key - major/minor/sharps, etc.
Andrew & Kristen Lenz
specifically for bagpipes). And I'm wondering how to set it to get it to
show the correct sharps/flats on the staff. Set it to B minor? Which
maybe would have a "#" on the f and c lines? Or something else?
Sigh. I should probably break down and take a music theory class someday.
Thanks,
Andrew
--
Andrew & Kristen Lenz
al...@alumni.cse.ucsc.edu
Santa Cruz, California U.S.A.
farclan
Christine
Rick James
Andrew & Kristen Lenz <al...@alumni.cse.ucsc.edu> wrote:
> I'm messing around with this new music composing software (not made
> specifically for bagpipes). And I'm wondering how to set it to get it
to
> show the correct sharps/flats on the staff. Set it to B minor? Which
> maybe would have a "#" on the f and c lines? Or something else?
Not counting all the possible "modal" keys, bagpipe music is usually in
one of FOUR keys. A major, or F# minor, which each have 3 sharps (F#
C# and G#) or D major, or B minor, which each have 2 sharps (F# and
C#). A rather simplistic way to determine which key the tune is in, is
to look at the last note of the tune.
You may wonder how the G can change from G natural to G sharp when
there is only one way to play a G on the pipe. Good question. On some
tunes you will notice the G is never played as a melody note. That is
why.
>
> Sigh. I should probably break down and take a music theory class
someday.
Couldn't hurt. But in the end, you just have to learn to trust your
ear. Some of the greatest composers throughout history, violated
accepted convention with their compositions. So if it sounds good to
you, go for it.
>
> Thanks,
> Andrew
> --
Hope this helps,
--
Rick James
P/S SHPB Gr4
NAR#73338
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
Ryan
> specifically for bagpipes). And I'm wondering how to set it to get it to
> show the correct sharps/flats on the staff. Set it to B minor? Which
> maybe would have a "#" on the f and c lines? Or something else?
D Major is the major Key with 2 sharps, F# and C#, b minor would also work
becuase it is the relative minor of D major, or it's 6 scale steps up from D
:D,E,F#,G,A,B. You could also use A Major which would contain the G#,
however in some tunes G# is correct and other tunes it is not. What a funny
instrument we play. And is you use A Major you could also use the relative
minor f# minor which would also contain 3 sharps F#, C#, G#.
"> Sigh. I should probably break down and take a music theory class someday.
Music Theory is a blast however it is not easy at all. First year Music
theory at a college goes all the way to analysing secondary dominance in
Bach chorales, and Four part Writing.
Ryan
Ryan
minor f# minor which would also contain 3 sharps F#, C#, G#.
"Ryan" <murr...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:yx336.42873$RC1.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
bork
Highland pipes play in the mode/key* of A Mixolydian which is like saying "A
major but with a flat 7th degree (G nat)". There are other derivatives as
already observed but they all need to be figured on having 2 sharps, so F#
Dorian (not minor, but close), G Lydian, and B Aeolian (natural minor) are
all possible modes to play in.
You can't dismiss the modes in bagpipe music. It is absolutely correct to
say that you can play in A major if you omit the G from the tune but that
can be really confusing because really the only major key that you can play
in on the highland pipes, without intentionally cross-fingering, is D Major.
You almost have to understand how the modes work to really see how it all
fits together. Any music theory textbook will have an explanation - they're
an easy concept but it takes more than a quick newsgroup posting.
Someone long ago who is hopefully burning in a pit of hell right now decided
it would "just be easier" for pipers to omit things like, for example, key
signatures in their music. This was was apparently happening at the same
time that A440 crept up towards A446 to ensure once and for all that pipers
would never be able to interface with the musical heritage and evolution of
western music. (this bit isn't exactly true but it feels true.)
The result seems to be that pipers who are taught in the current state of
the art don't get the advantage of being able to read music the same way the
majority of the rest of the planet does. Music theory classes go a long way
to round out your musical experience and tend to make it all more enjoyable
so, as you say, take one someday. It will be the best thing you ever did for
your music.
* - "mode" isn't exactly historically synonymous with "key" but it cuts down
on the confusion to think of them as the same thing. Take that class.
$.02
-cav
JFMACR
of the pipes themselves have risen over the years so that they are now at the
b-flat level (466 to 480 MHz). The accompaniament would play a B-flat
myxolidian (B, E and A flats) B-flat with a flatted 7th.
Jim MacRae
Ryan
is that bagpipe music is written in D-major. or B minor. However I think
more correct would be to say they are in the Key of A-mixolydian. Which as
said by someone above is A major with a lowered 7th or leading tone.
Ryan
"JFMACR" <jfm...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20001229163442...@ng-fy1.aol.com...
C Carter
> I'm messing around with this new music composing software (not made
> specifically for bagpipes). And I'm wondering how to set it to get it
to
> show the correct sharps/flats on the staff. Set it to B minor? Which
> maybe would have a "#" on the f and c lines? Or something else?
Andrew - the easiest thing to do is to set your pitches on C and F
sharp by 100 cents, if your software has a microtonal adjuctment, which
it probably does if it's any good. Then, write your tunes with no
sharps or flats in the accepted manner. This looks right on paper and
sounds right when played back on your speakers.
If you can program MIDI patches, the key for "bagpipe" is MIDI 110.
As to "keys" I wouldn't worry about it. The chanter is tuned in D
major, and you can describe much music as being in an accepted diatonic
key (D major, A major, b minor), a mode, or a pentatonic scale.
However, much pipe music is atonal, "Geese in the Bog" for example. So
don't worry about it.
Keith E. Albee
Slainte!
JFMACR
A-major myxolidian such that the g# would be an G-natural (flatted 7th)
The intervals are correct when played on piano or other instruments. Actually
the A at 440 has risen to 466 or more on the pipes, quite often as high as 485.
Jim
Royce Lerwick
wrote:
>
>> I'm messing around with this new music composing software (not made
>> specifically for bagpipes). And I'm wondering how to set it to get it
>to
>> show the correct sharps/flats on the staff. Set it to B minor? Which
>> maybe would have a "#" on the f and c lines? Or something else?
>
>Andrew - the easiest thing to do is to set your pitches on C and F
>sharp by 100 cents, if your software has a microtonal adjuctment, which
>it probably does if it's any good. Then, write your tunes with no
>sharps or flats in the accepted manner. This looks right on paper and
>sounds right when played back on your speakers.
The easiest thing you can do is put the key in D major and write the
tune in A mixolydian and all that happens is the typical piper won't
understand what the two sharps are at the left of the first measure
and ignore them like he usually does. Then normal musicians can read
it and so can pipers.
>
>If you can program MIDI patches, the key for "bagpipe" is MIDI 110.
I have no idea what "MIDI 110" is and I do in fact write my own
patches and samples and loops and have done extensive MIDI
orchestration for GHB. What you do is write the little noties on the
lines and spaces like usual, with two sharps in the scale, meaning D
major, and then if you really really have to have it actually tune to
actual pipes, you send controller or sysex to the sound engine telling
it to run 1 semitone and somewhere between 20-40 cents sharp of
standard pitch. If you're using DLS or ARL or other sample standards,
you'll have to go into an editor and offset each waveform or
instrument probably. Some MIDI modules have enough front-panel or
soft-knob master correction to go sharp enough, but usually you'll
have to edit the patches or waveforms or instruments one-by-one to get
about 120-40 cents sharp of A440.
Royce
(And remember, friends don't let friends play cocobolo.)
>
>As to "keys" I wouldn't worry about it. The chanter is tuned in D
>major, and you can describe much music as being in an accepted diatonic
>key (D major, A major, b minor), a mode, or a pentatonic scale.
>However, much pipe music is atonal, "Geese in the Bog" for example. So
>don't worry about it.
Actually very few pipe tunes even come close to being truly "atonal"
they're just very flexible as to what rules they follow part-to-part,
measure-to-measure. Most of the time they're doing some weird oriental
gapped-scale exercise, not atonal, just leaving out the tones they
don't have.
Royce
Worldhop/Dance/Keltoid/Electronic/Metal Weirdness
http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/118/sfu.html
http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/83/royce_lerwick.html
www.royceworld.com
(Zetland Pipes)
bork
110 is the patch number of the "bagpipe" sound in the General MIDI spec.
General MIDI is a standard set of 128 sounds used for MIDI song exchange on
the web and other places where it isn't economical or necessary to transmit
an actual recording.
It is usually an embarrassingly awful sound in most GM sound sets. I've
never found it to sound anything like any kind of pipes I've ever played.
Nice to be represented I guess... :->
-cav
Royce Lerwick
>
>110 is the patch number of the "bagpipe" sound in the General MIDI spec.
>General MIDI is a standard set of 128 sounds used for MIDI song exchange on
>the web and other places where it isn't economical or necessary to transmit
>an actual recording.
>
>It is usually an embarrassingly awful sound in most GM sound sets. I've
>never found it to sound anything like any kind of pipes I've ever played.
>Nice to be represented I guess... :->
You're so correct that slot 110 in the GM map didn't even ring a bell.
>
>-cav
>
>>>
>>> If you can program MIDI patches, the key for "bagpipe" is MIDI 110.
Which is very confusing inasmuch as the context was "key" and the
sentence above uses the word "key" and of course, patch program 110
like any of the others are in whatever key you map them out to be,
even in GM the key program 110 would be by default would be a fully
chromatic, 8 octave ranging, evenly tempered scale based either on
A=440 or sometimes 442 depending on whether or not you've got Germans
or Japanese making your gear.
C Carter
pmle...@mn.mediaone.net (Royce Lerwick) wrote:
> You're so correct that slot 110 in the GM map didn't even ring a bell.
Quick study, Royce, getting up to speed on the general MIDI patch map
in less than five days. I don't know how you do it, with everything
else you do.
Anyway, good job.
;-)
Royce Lerwick
wrote:
>In article <3a52d03f...@news.mn.mediaone.net>,
> pmle...@mn.mediaone.net (Royce Lerwick) wrote:
>
>> You're so correct that slot 110 in the GM map didn't even ring a bell.
>
>Quick study, Royce, getting up to speed on the general MIDI patch map
>in less than five days. I don't know how you do it, with everything
>else you do.
Gee, I guess if GM was used by anyone but a few cheesy consumer level
games sequences, or if somebody had made a reference to the GM
standard patch map in the post, or if said reference to a GM patch,
bagpipes or otherwise had anything to do with the "key" of bagpipes,
or if the sentence "the key of the bagpipe is MIDI 110" was anything
more than a load of ignorant gibberish either in general musical or
MIDI terminology, I might have figured out what the reference was
supposed to mean sooner.
By the way, the GM standard was adopted over 10 years ago and I've had
the patch map on my wall for 11 years, as I had to remap my MT-32
originally via software thinking it would be handy to have when the
change went from the MT-32 map to GM. It hasn't been handy. In fact, I
haven't had the MT-32 for 4 years and MIDI itself is about on the
threshold of becoming entirely irrelevant to music production except
perhaps in automated mixdown or lighting control applications, in
favor of virtual synthesis.
In any case, there is no known instrument mapped to program 110 in
MIDI that sounds anything like, or has ever sounded anything like, any
known sort of bagpipe.
MrRobotTow
>the patch map on my wall for 11 years
Hangs over that naked pic of Ella MacPherson he has on his wall (so the wife
doesnt see it.)
DPilg88503
>Hangs over that naked pic of Ella MacPherson he has on his wall (so the wife
Maybe you meant Elle. The only Ella I can think of is Ella Fitzgerald...and I
would hope no-one here has a poster of her on the wall.
Doberman
You have a scary, not to mention very limited imagination.
>and I
> would hope no-one here has a poster of her on the wall.>
Oh so your prejudice too?
--
The election is over,
The results are known,
The will of the people has clearly been shown.
Let's forget the quarrels and show by our deeds,
We will give our leader all the help that he needs.
So let's all get together, and let bitterness pass,
I'll hug your elephant and you kiss my ass.
Al Gore (but you may address me as "Mr President")
Matt Buckley
MrRobotTow
>
After years of staring at her poster, I bet you still cant tell me what color
her eyes are though...
Royce Lerwick
Nope, that my Ella. Baby's got back. That MacPherson chick's too
stringy for me.