FS: 19th Cent. Ivory MacDougall Bagpipes
KI7G
I have for sale one set of late 19th century Macdougall bagpipes
with real ivory and brass inserts on the drones.
The chanter is newer - Dated to 1940's. The bag is new.
These pipes have been appraised at $1800.
I am offering them for sale here for a couple of days at $1200 plus
shipping and ins. I will then place them on Ebay with this as the
starting bid. I'm doing this because I prefer not to go to the hassle
of an ebay auction.
I am not a piper and don't know much about bagpipes -- I inherited
these pipes. The information above was supplied to me by the
appraiser, "Scottish Country Shop" in Portland, OR
Digital Photos available upon request.
if interested, email to: ard...@comcast.net
or call (503) 635-6387 [USA]
KI7G
I have posted some digital photos on a friends webserver:
http://verticalh.kirsol.com/pics/bagpipes1
http://verticalh.kirsol.com/pics/bagpipes2
http://verticalh.kirsol.com/pics/bagpipes3
Hope this helps.
All the best,
Arden Eby ard...@comcast.net
KI7G
>
>I have for sale one set of late 19th century Macdougall bagpipes
>with real ivory and brass inserts on the drones.
>
These pipes have been sold and shipped. Thank you for all the
inquiries on these pipes...Apparently $1200 was a pretty good deal.
KG
> inquiries on these pipes...Apparently $1200 was a pretty good deal.
>
> All the best,
>
> Arden Eby
The pipes were interesting, but I wouldn't want a set of pipes that
had brass sleeves in the drones. Once that has been done, the pipes
are no longer the work of the original maker. They may still be
original on the outside, but the inside is where the sound comes from
and they are now the work of whatever factory produced the brass tube
that has been inserted. Still, different people have different ideas
of value. I'm happy you were able to sell them!
KI7G
>
>The pipes were interesting, but I wouldn't want a set of pipes that
>had brass sleeves in the drones. Once that has been done, the pipes
>are no longer the work of the original maker. They may still be
>original on the outside, but the inside is where the sound comes from
>and they are now the work of whatever factory produced the brass tube
>that has been inserted. Still, different people have different ideas
>of value. I'm happy you were able to sell them!
I got the idea from the appraiser that the brass sleeves were original
and rare and actually would increase the value which is one reason I
showed a close-up of them.
All the best,
Arden
Steve MacLeod
In the interest of a some historical accuracy - I've been told of and have
seen examples of some MacDougall's and some Glen's that were made with brass
sleeves BY the original makers. I don't know that all MacDougall's and all
Glen's were made this way or if it was only some of the time during some of
the family member's or if only certain sets got the treatment - but some
MacDougall's and some Glen's were made with brass sleeves BY the original
makers.
The set of that I know of brass lined MacDougall's (of Aberfeldy) has full
provenence from day 1 and a scoresheet from the North American Open
Piobaireach Championships signed by John Burgess stating "100 out of 100. A
perfect tune on a perfect pipe. First place."
You can not want a set, and you can be happy that someone else bought them,
but you should not impune what may, in fact, be an original set that may
sound exactly as the maker intended.
Steve MacLeod
"KG" <kgils...@kc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:96dafc39.03071...@posting.google.com...
Ron Bowen
to be mis-matched and nothing about them looks MacDougall to me.
Brass sleeves can mean something or nothing. Certainly you will find some
MacDougall and Glen pipes with brass sleeves, but then brass sleeves weren't
exclusive to those makers.
The angles of the pictures taken make identification of the various pieces
difficult. I have never seen a set with mis-matched (nickel and ivory)
ferrules. You will find nickel ferrules with ivory rings and mounts, or
with wood mounts, I don't know of anyone that put together sets with nichel
ferrules on the stocks and ivory ferrules on the drones.
It would be VERY unusual to find a MacDougall bagpipe with score lines cut
into the ferrules. If beads were present on the ferrules (on the wood end)
they were usually small and shallow.
Rings on the drones were generally flush. If a bead existed at all, it was
small and shallow.
The beads between the combing on your set are just not MacDougall. Way too
deep.
Check the cord beads. The channel between should be VERY wide if this is
MacDougall made.
Look at those projecting mounts! They look more "Robertson" than anything
else. Again, the angles and size of the pictures makes positive
identification difficult.
The bottom line here is that you'd have to do a lot of convincing to get me
to believe that these are MacDougalls. I think that it would be a losing
cause. http://www.thebagpipeplace.com/page16.html
This isn't meant to be critical. Mistakes in identifying bagpipes happens
all the time. I just hate to see people spending money for something that
probably isn't the real thing.
If you send me detailed close-ups of all the pieces I'll do my best to
positively identify them for you.
Lloyd
kgils...@kc.rr.com (KG) wrote:
The insides of many such pipes have been lined because the
original bore was so uneven (I seem to recall something about
burning out the bore?). Lining the portion of the tuning chamber
where the pin is inserted need not adversely affect the tone,
certainly not to the point that the brass tube factory should get
the bragging rights ;-)
Lloyd
*****
.
KG
Well, all I can say is, if lining the drones of pipes with brass is
the way to go, why are there so few and why aren't current makers
making them this way now? I'm not saying that you can't get a good
tone out of brass. But the brass will not age like wood will. This
is a characteristic that I, along with many other pipers I know, want.
Ayrhead
>
> Well, all I can say is, if lining the drones of pipes with brass is
> the way to go, why are there so few and why aren't current makers
> making them this way now?
Some current makers do, in fact, manufacture brand new pipes with
brass linings. I don't know of all the makes, but I'm pretty certain
that Dunfion does... and one maker in the U.S. does too, IIRC.
(Can't remember the name...)
And Dunfions are quality pipes, so don't be thinking that only crap
pipe-makers do it.
Dun Derhead
>
>And Dunfions are quality pipes,
LOL, good one Kay.
KG
> brass linings. I don't know of all the makes, but I'm pretty certain
> that Dunfion does... and one maker in the U.S. does too, IIRC.
> (Can't remember the name...)
>
> And Dunfions are quality pipes, so don't be thinking that only crap
> pipe-makers do it.
Henry Murdo of Dunfion uses brass tubes only on the part of the drones
that hold the tuning slides. The rest of the drones are wood like
every other known maker.
Maybe the original pipes at the beginning of this thread were not
brass lined the whole length of the drone but with only the part of
the drone that holds the tuning pin?
I think that a very few makers have done this because they believe
that the brass wears better over years of tuning the drones. I've had
my pipes for thirty years and can't see any wear at all. African
blackwood is some tough stuff.
G Roche
missing.....no one said anything so I bring it up as I purchased a set from
ebay that had a tenor top on the bass drone and no one noticed that
either....even my instructor and yet that too was obvious ......howcum???
"KI7G" <ard...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:jjqdhvsfkdt6gli8f...@4ax.com...
Ayrhead
>
> I think that a very few makers have done this because they believe
> that the brass wears better over years of tuning the drones.
I *think* Dunfions are made that way to give reinforcement because of
the carving. I have no idea why any others may be done that way.
> I've had
> my pipes for thirty years and can't see any wear at all. African
> blackwood is some tough stuff.
It sure is; I wonder why "Duncan MacDougall considered African
Blackwood to be "unsuitable" for bagpipes."? (From Ringo's website,
http://www.thebagpipeplace.com/page16.html ) Was it the sound
quality, durability, or some other reason??? Ringo????
KG
> Blackwood to be "unsuitable" for bagpipes."?
I would think that there was a bit of a tradition of using Cocus or
Ebony back in those days. Sometimes it's hard for makers to break
tradition.
Ron Bowen
Without playing a blackwood set head-to-head against one of these it would
be hard to fully appreciate Duncan's reasoning. You can speculate. Take
Roddy MacLellan's bagpipe. He'll make it for you in either African
Blackwood or cocobolo. Head-to-head comparisons have shown the cocobolo to
be slightly warmer and mellower than the AB drones.
All of the better makers are very loyal to what they believe is right.
Because they will not compromise is the reason why we have the good bagpipes
available today.
ringo
"Ayrhead" <kmc...@marzetti.com> wrote in message
news:641f5c1e.03072...@posting.google.com...
Comp Piper
"Ron Bowen" <ron_...@sympatico.ca> wrote in
> Blackwood or cocobolo. Head-to-head comparisons have
shown the cocobolo to
> be slightly warmer and mellower than the AB drones.
Ron, I'm doing some experiments in Sound dynamics to try and
answer some curious questions I need to know for myself.
I have access to a full CNC machine shop and will be trying
different drone models of varying materials, lengths,
thickness, tapers and drone top designs.
This should be fun!
I'll let you know what my observations and the results were
on each variation, but it will be interesting to see if we
can get good tone from a broom handle!
Later
John
KG
> Who's to know. I do know that Ebony and Cocuswood are more mellow sounding.
> Without playing a blackwood set head-to-head against one of these it would
> be hard to fully appreciate Duncan's reasoning. You can speculate. Take
> Roddy MacLellan's bagpipe. He'll make it for you in either African
> Blackwood or cocobolo. Head-to-head comparisons have shown the cocobolo to
> be slightly warmer and mellower than the AB drones.
>
> All of the better makers are very loyal to what they believe is right.
> Because they will not compromise is the reason why we have the good bagpipes
> available today.
>
> ringo
Thanks Ringo! Well said!
KG
I would think that you could certainly get good tone from a broom
handle, at least initially. Provided, of course, that your bores are
precise and clean. Keep us posted on your progress.
Oakridge666
is how your gas sounds when it echos through the toilet. Its proper that you
would have access to a shop, god knows you would not have anything of your own.
So what is the latest thing you are whining about? Is the couch you are
sleeping on getting a little harsh? Have you lost too many brain cells from
your beer induced stuppers? Or is it how some band or PM screwed you over? Its
always someone else John its never you is it.
Comp Piper
"KG" <kgils...@kc.rr.com> wrote in
> I would think that you could certainly get good tone from
a broom
> handle, at least initially. Provided, of course, that
your bores are
> precise and clean. Keep us posted on your progress.
Actually just playing around with bore sizes was
interesting!
Also varying the size with different tapers has been really
interesting!
I might do another MP3 sample to let you hear the
differences!
cheers
john
KG
Maybe you should consider writing up a short paper on your findings.
I'd be interested.
Friesian Piper
brass inserted in the lining. It is an option. It has nothing to do
with the quality or unevenness of the inside. Dunfion are like a
rifles barrel, straight and smooth as silk.
In the case of first class pipes like these, it will not affect the
price.
Sybren M. Vis
CarrynetteŽ International