Ebony vs Blackwood vs Crocus
Piobre
sound properties of each wood?
Zudupiper
>the
>sound properties of each wood?
Madman could tell you more, but ebony produces a little quieter sound compared
to AB. I used to play a set of ebony Robertsons.
Crocuses bloom in the spring. Cocus wood, or cocobolo if it's old and genuine
is good stuff and I think Roddy MacLellan makes pipes out of it. The crappy
"cocuswood" Paki pipemakers use is sheesham I think.
Zu
Stuart Hall
zudu...@aol.com (Zudupiper) wrote:
>Crocuses bloom in the spring. Cocus wood, or cocobolo if it's old and genuine
>is good stuff and I think Roddy MacLellan makes pipes out of it. The crappy
>"cocuswood" Paki pipemakers use is sheesham I think.
>
>Zu
Old cocus and cocobolo are two different timbers. Cocus is relatively
dry, and is (I believe) on the ebony side of blackwood when it comes to
density. Cocobolo is also a little less dense than blackwood, but oilier
than cocus.
Cocobolo is relatively common now, and cocus is nearly extinct. As Zu
mentioned, modern Pakistani pipemakers call their wood cocus, but it's not
the same as old-pipe-and-flute cocus.
Roddy MacLellan does in fact make pipes from cocobolo.
Stuart
Mike Le Boeuf
I had a friend in Pakistan make 2 chanters for me, one of Eastern Cocus
and one of Sheesham. He said the 2 chanters (cocus and rosewood) were
better than the original Ebony Adrian Jeffries chanter that the guy in
pakistan coppied for me.
But this is a Uilleann Pipe makers point of view.
Mike
Bagpiip
And you believed him?
Bill
Mar a bha, mar a tha,
mar a bhitheas gu brath,
ri tra'ghadh's ri lionadh.
Alan C
I just got my cocobolo MacLellans about a month ago. I chose cocobolo based on
Roddy's preferences - he likes it as it's more readily available (being from South
America as opposed to Africa) and, in has experience, more consistent and stable.
It is fractionally less dense, which produces a slightly mellower tone. In
appearance, it's more reddish than blackwood and has a more visible grain pattern -
my set is absolutely beautiful.
Alan C.
alDELETEA...@netexp.net
John910
America it is jacaranda.
Indian Cocus is not true cocus, as was pointed out.
Ebony is a fine wood for pipes, based on my experience.
Blackwood is getting rare, and I think the grades being offered are not as high
quality as before.
Just my .02
John
Iain Sherwood
Blackwood and certain types of rosewood; it comes from Central and South
America. It does make great sounding and beautiful bagpipes, but is
supposedly more toxic than ebony or blackwood. It practically finishes
itself because it ha so much oil in it.
IS
"Tim Sullivan" <shen...@flash.net> wrote in message
news:YYh24.7291$0p4.7...@news.flash.net...
>
> > >There are several different woods used for the GHB. Anybody familiar
> with
> > >the
> > >sound properties of each wood?
> >
> > Madman could tell you more, but ebony produces a little quieter sound
> compared
> > to AB. I used to play a set of ebony Robertsons.
> >
> > Crocuses bloom in the spring. Cocus wood, or cocobolo if it's old and
> genuine
> > is good stuff and I think Roddy MacLellan makes pipes out of it. The
> crappy
> > "cocuswood" Paki pipemakers use is sheesham I think.
> >
> > Zu
>
> Spot on, Zu. All correct, as I understand things.
>
>
Tim Sullivan
OUTLAWPIPE
laboratory.
Max break strength of Dalbergia melanoxylon.....10,800 Psi. WOW !!
WWW2.fpl.fs.fed.us/techsheets/tropicaaD-G.html
They didnt list Acacia Giraffae, but the rumour is that the heartwood is so
hard as to make sparks fly from an axe.
Rodger
Ccc31807
like oak, boxwood, maple, and other hard woods? If so, are these other
woods so inadequate that none are used today? And how do they compare
with the tropical woods that are used presently?
Also, what are the particular qualities of rosewood that bring it into
such disrepute among pipers? Is it because that rosewood pipes are
mostly Pakistani in origin? And is it possible to make a good stand of
pipes out of rosewood?
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Mike Le Boeuf
A friend of mine that is in the Ismaili Hunza Pipe Band in Karachi
Pakistan has an old set of Hendersons that were made of Oak. From what
he tells me they are great pipes, no cracks, and full ivory mounts.
I was going to get a set of Highland pipes made of Boxwood, but for
competition, I dont know how much of a tonal differance their would be,
it will be odd enough that the drone tops will be shaped as thistles.
I also have a practice chanter that is sheesham wood. It actually is a
nice chanter that cost me about $4.00 from a maker. He said he ages his
wood 8-10 years, and Ebony and Blackwood 10-15 years. But the Sheesham
wood, is very tight grained, and very dark. I guess it gets better if
its aged properly.
I am not too fond of the white plastic mounts that he put on it, but I
can live with it.
I have yet to try to ask any makers to make a set of pipes out of decent
Sheesham wood. They are copying a set of my pipes, but I just havent
gotton around to doing it yet. I can get the wood for making the pipes,
that would be dirt cheep. If anyone is intrested in trying to turn it
let me know.
Now let me step in to my flame proof suit.
Mike
Royce Lerwick
<Ted...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>I had a friend in Pakistan make 2 chanters for me, one of Eastern Cocus
>and one of Sheesham. He said the 2 chanters (cocus and rosewood) were
>better than the original Ebony Adrian Jeffries chanter that the guy in
>pakistan coppied for me.
>But this is a Uilleann Pipe makers point of view.
>Mike
I'm still waiting to see some decent UP's come out....
Royce
Bagpiip
And for the "quality copies" of scottish made pipes, or the "quality copies" of
UP's, or the "20$ wallhangers", Or the...
Get the picture?
David Williams
I love my crocus pipes. They're especially nice in the spring and they
smell nicer than blackwood.
Royce Lerwick wrote:
>
> On Sun, 05 Dec 1999 18:43:53 -0800, Mike Le Boeuf
> <Ted...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> >A friend of mine that is in the Ismaili Hunza Pipe Band in Karachi
> >Pakistan has an old set of Hendersons that were made of Oak. From what
> >he tells me they are great pipes, no cracks, and full ivory mounts.
--
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Royce Lerwick
<Ted...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>A friend of mine that is in the Ismaili Hunza Pipe Band in Karachi
>Pakistan has an old set of Hendersons that were made of Oak. From what
>he tells me they are great pipes, no cracks, and full ivory mounts.
B as in B. S as in S. Anyone who even knows what oak is...oh hell, I'm
not even going to dignify that with commentary.
>
>I was going to get a set of Highland pipes made of Boxwood, but for
>competition, I dont know how much of a tonal differance their would be,
>it will be odd enough that the drone tops will be shaped as thistles
Real boxwood is expensive and has a very nasty tendency to warp. Not
suitable for chanters or blowpipes.
>I also have a practice chanter that is sheesham wood. It actually is a
>nice chanter that cost me about $4.00 from a maker. He said he ages his
>wood 8-10 years, and Ebony and Blackwood 10-15 years. But the Sheesham
>wood, is very tight grained, and very dark. I guess it gets better if
>its aged properly.
Shesham wood is actually about like mahogony or sometimes even pine.
It's light and it's splintery and soft and makes very bad bagpipes.
>I am not too fond of the white plastic mounts that he put on it, but I
>can live with it.
>I have yet to try to ask any makers to make a set of pipes out of decent
>Sheesham wood. They are copying a set of my pipes, but I just havent
>gotton around to doing it yet. I can get the wood for making the pipes,
>that would be dirt cheep. If anyone is intrested in trying to turn it
>let me know.
I've got a lot of wood, well, *some* wood from Pakistani suppliers.
They only have two kinds worth anything. The first is ebony, usually
has some features, but they don't know the difference or care between
striped and "gaboon" or black ebony. Really it's just a grading thing,
but you get some really good pieces and some not so good, but mostly,
if they are aged at all it's because they've been stacked in a
warehouse for 15 years just by accident, not by design.
Likewise, you'll turn into them and discover open grains or cracks and
"seasoning" doesn't mean anything except the most obvious cracks are
already visible. If you turn past the surface checking etc you can
still have some really good wood.
The second wood, they call "cocus" and though it looks about like
their "sheesham" it depends on who's calling it "cocus" just how good
it is. Some of it is very hard and tight and makes pretty good
instruments, drones anyway. Up chanters. Not GHB chanters at all. It
also does not take moisture well at all and cracks very regularly no
matter how much it is aged in all the moisture sensitive areas of the
instrument.
Royce
Mike Le Boeuf
nothing like the oak that is used in cabinet making.
The Rosewood or Sheesham wood practice chanter that they sent me is more
like a real decent rosewood, and is nothing like Mohogony or Pine, its
not Splintery, and its very hard. I think it has all of the
capabalities of making a decent bagpipe.
I have seen chanters from almost all companies, Greenland Pipe Co,
Ireland pipe co, Halifax, Mid-east, MB Pipe, yada yada yada, most use a
cheep light grained wood, I guess it is the well known Sheesham.
But this one must have been aged properly or something because it is a
good piece. Same with the UP Chanter that was made of sheesham wood,
that was a very nice wood, and it had Cocus wood mounts. It looked
exactly like Boxwood.
I have 1 Maple Sinclair chanter, very nice chanter. Decent Eastern
Cocus seems harder than maple, so im sure it can make a decent chanter.
I think Sinclair made a few bagpipes out of Canadian Maple and I do
recall hearing one of those sets and I really liked the tone. My pocket
wasnt that deap, but it was a great sound.
Im sure the same can be done with cocus.
I do have a African Blackwood bagpipe, the only problems that I have
found is the cheep Imitation ivory cracking. The wood has not cracked,
and I have never had a problem with the wood cracking. I also have a
few Pakistani pipe chanters. 1 Sheesham wood one from 1920, no cracks,
but it is a very soft sound, 1 Blackwood one from the 50's, and a 2 year
old Brian Boru chanter. No cracks in them.
Not all pipe makers just make pipes for tourists, just most of them.
Their are decent instrument makers in Pakistan, also decent engravers.
Some mounts that I have ordered from Pakistan look exactly like Kintails
Celtic Design of engraving. But they just say the thistle design they
send out is the easiest to make.
Mike
Bob Cameron
after they bloom, I can use the fowers to make authentic saffron to dye my
authentic saffron shrits.!
David Williams wrote:
> I love my crocus pipes. They're especially nice in the spring and they
> smell nicer than blackwood.
>
> Royce Lerwick wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, 05 Dec 1999 18:43:53 -0800, Mike Le Boeuf
> > <Ted...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >
> > >A friend of mine that is in the Ismaili Hunza Pipe Band in Karachi
> > >Pakistan has an old set of Hendersons that were made of Oak. From what
> > >he tells me they are great pipes, no cracks, and full ivory mounts.
Bob Cameron
Mike Le Boeuf wrote:
> The oak that was used is called Bog Oak, a very tight grained wood,
> nothing like the oak that is used in cabinet making.
Actually bog oak starts out the same as that which Cabinet makers use. The
difference is that bog oak has lain in a bog for centuries (Millenia?) in
an anaerobic, acidic envronment. The same prcess that tans the skin and
softens the bones in the ages old Bog Men occasionallyy dug up, fills the
grain of the wood with minerals and darkens it.
Ebony: some Indian bagpipes are made of Macassar ebony, are they not?
Macassar Ebony is slightly lighter, more reddish in color than African
(Gaboon) ebony. I'm not sure about working characteristsics- maybe Dave
Atherton can tell us aboout that.
snip
Mike Le Boeuf
>
> On Sat, 04 Dec 1999 12:02:15 -0800, Mike Le Boeuf
> <Ted...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> >I had a friend in Pakistan make 2 chanters for me, one of Eastern Cocus
> >and one of Sheesham. He said the 2 chanters (cocus and rosewood) were
> >better than the original Ebony Adrian Jeffries chanter that the guy in
> >pakistan coppied for me.
> >But this is a Uilleann Pipe makers point of view.
> >Mike
>
>
A decent chanter was made of Sheesham wood, and Cocus mounts, and a C#
Key. The Pipe maker made 4 sets of bellows (Not complete), and 5 brass
chanter tops. A little over a month ago I recieved an e-mail saying the
pipe maker who was making my pipes died. He was in his late 70's.
So they packed everything up and send it to me so I had a chanter 5
tops, and some bellows faces.
I couldnt do anything with them so I sent both sets the Adrian Jeffries
and the Pakistani made set to Justin Pickford of Australia as a down
payment for a 3/4 set with 4 drones.
He told me out of the 2 chanters the Rosewood chanter sounded the best,
even though it took an odd reed, it sounded good.
That is from a Irish Pipe Makers point. He also makes Highland pipes,
Smallpipes and the Spanish pipes.
Mike