Competition Entry Fees: Solos
Zudupiper
A few years ago, you just paid the normal games ticket price and that covered
all the events you wanted to compete in. In the last couple of years, the
trend has been to have the gate ticket price cover either one or two events,
and if you want to compete in more events, you pay an additional few dollars.
Last season the competition entry fees ranged from about $8 on up to $15 (I
think) at Loon, with the average being about $12 or so.
The reason I ask, is that I recently got an entry form from the Red Bank NJ
games (coming up on 5/6) and the solo piping entry fee is $7 per event. For a
total of $21.
I emailed the piping director and told him that his entry fees are out of
whack. His response was that I always have the option not to compete there,
and that it costs a lot of money to put on a games.
This particular games never offered solo competitions before, and I think
somebody gave them bad advice on what to charge. People should complain. I
did, and I'm not even going. It's a ripoff.
Zu
ccc31807
anywhere close to covering a piping competition. If you have 50
contestants and the entry fee is $10, that is a total of $500 in
entry fees. 100 contestants at $12 each is $1,200. The budget
for a competition is at least a minimum of $7,000, and for a
larger competition is more like $15,000. Solo entry fees are a
drop in the bucket compared to the total cost. Charge too much
and you chase off competitors.
In the S.E.U.S., fees for solo events range from $8 to $12 per
competitor, with the ticket to the games thrown in free. In some
cases, the entry fee is less than the ticket, and I myself have
entered at least one competition for the sake of paying less for
the ticket than I would have otherwise!
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dnimmo
Zudupiper wrote in message <20000315173936...@ng-bh1.aol.com>...
>What does everybody pay to compete in solo piping
Halifax Highland games 08 July 2000
Just in middle of updating last year's registration form for this year.
Entry fees: Solo $6.00CAN per event
Open $10.00CAN per event
Band $25.00CAN
These have not changed since last year.....don't know how long they have
been set at these figures........I just joined the committee.
Without going into figures, in summer 1999 our Piping and Drumming
expenditures (prizes, band travel allowances, judges fees & accomodation &
travel for some plus administrative expenses) were THREE TIMES the
registration fees collected !
Same thing for highland dancing ! ......and very similar for
heavyweights..............
David
John Mitchell
> NO piping, no dancing, no weights---who would go to a highland games?
I'd go, all they have to do is put up a beer tent!
If they build it, I will come! ;-)
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Ryan Jones
>games (coming up on 5/6) and the solo piping entry fee is $7 per event. For
>a
>total of $21.
>
>I emailed the piping director and told him that his entry fees are out of
>whack. His response was that I always have the option not to compete there,
>and that it costs a lot of money to put on a games.
Actually from band point of view, Red Bank is extremely well-organized and
profitable. They offer some of the best prize money in EUSPBA for band
competitions. While I am agree that paying $21 dollars to compete may seem a
little high, it is important to remember that it is still in the opening
stages.
The band that organizes must put quite a bit of time and effort into the
competition, and they probably have no idea as to attendance or the number of
judges required for the solo events. Remember if you do not want to pay, you
can always stay home....
Ryan
/\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\/\\//\\//\\//\\/\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\
Ryan Jones | rya...@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/manchesterpb/ - Personal Site
Andrew & Kristen Lenz
> expenditures (prizes, band travel allowances, judges fees & accomodation &
> travel for some plus administrative expenses) were THREE TIMES the
> registration fees collected !
>
> Same thing for highland dancing ! ......and very similar for
> heavyweights..............
Yes, but from a business standpoint, piping competitions, dancing and
weights are DRAWS for the event. People PAY to see these events. NO
piping, no dancing, no weights---who would go to a highland games/fair?
If one were to consider the professional sports model, competing pipers
should be paid to compete.
I hereby offer my piping competition services to any games for the
entry-level NFL player rate: $480,000 a year . . .
Andrew
--
Andrew & Kristen Lenz
al...@alumni.cse.ucsc.edu
Santa Cruz, California U.S.A.
dnimmo
John Mitchell wrote in message <38d06483$1...@127.0.0.1>...
>Andrew & Kristen Lenz <al...@alumni.cse.ucsc.edu> wrote in
>> NO piping, no dancing, no weights---who would go to a highland games?
>
>I'd go, all they have to do is put up a beer tent!
>
>If they build it, I will come! ;-)
RIGHT ON JOHN.............our band took a look at the whole
situation.....prizes, practices, etc..........and wondered how we could make
real money at the games............WE RUN THE BEER TENT !
for Andrew & Kristen......don't shoot the messenger ! (but maybe you
aren't....I'm just to sensitive).............from the few Games where I have
been able to look behind the scenes......they ain't money makers.......if
they were you would see trade show and promotional companies trying to elbow
in on the action................successful games are a labour of love for a
very large number of unpaid behind the scenes volunteers who start on next
years games right after the dust settles on this
years.....................and even the best laid plans for a financially
viable event can turn into a financial mess with a bad turn in the weather
!
David
Zudupiper
>little high, it is important to remember that it is still in the opening
>stages.
Which is why I pointed out to the piping director that his entry fees are 50%
above the highest I've ever paid. Maybe he got bad advice or something.
In my private email to him, I called this a "reality check". His reply was
essentially unprintable. So the reality check bounced.
>Remember if you do not want to pay, you
>can always stay home....
I can and I will. But the point of all this is that if a games is going to
charge a ridiculous amount for solo entries, they should have some clue.
Zu
Beginnertunes
>above the highest I've ever paid. Maybe he got bad advice or something.
>
>In my private email to him, I called this a "reality check". His reply was
>essentially unprintable. So the reality check bounced.
>
>>Remember if you do not want to pay, you
>>can always stay home....
>
>I can and I will. But the point of all this is that if a games is going to
>charge a ridiculous amount for solo entries, they should have some clue.
>
>Zu
Christ sakes Dave, get a grip man. Nobodys getting rich even at DOUBLE the
normal entry fees. Look at Shrewsbury, if you enter 3 events it's 8$ PER event!
Nobodys trying to suck those precious bucks from your wallett. Pay to compete,
or don't. But some games are better organized than others, and therefore worth
the small fee differences. I must add, that between EUSPBA fees, entry fees,
and other expenses, piping is one of the more reasonably priced hobbies.
Scotia Aye!
Bill
What do playing the bagpipes, and throwing a Javelin while blindfolded have in
common?
You don't have to be good at either one to get peoples attention!
dnimmo
Andrew & Kristen Lenz wrote in message
<38D19CDB...@alumni.cse.ucsc.edu>...
>>
>I definitely understand the highland games financial issues. The
>Monterey, CA games were bumped a couple months earlier due to pressure
>from the fair grounds this year, they wanted to put something else in
>(to make more money). The smaller Loch Lomond, CA games went to a one
>day event last year after they lost money the previous year.
>
>So yes, I understand the financials. Just my point was that pipers are a
>draw, so you want more of them---usually by charging less not more. More
>pipers, more draw. That is, until the "law of diminishing returns" comes
>in . . . beyond a point, it makes no difference how many pipers you have
>in terms of pleasing a crowd. Economically speaking, once a games is
>getting more pipers than they "need" to draw ticket buyers, they can
>raise the entry fee to reduce demand or to just pull in more money.
Hmmm......food for thought..........we (our games committee) have spoken
about what to do to "help the games grow" with the hope of gaining a good
reputation and attracting more gate revenue.
I had assumed, correct me on this one, that solos will come if they want to
compete,.... period. In other words, there is nothing we can do to entice
more solos.(besides being well organized and on schedule)
On the other hand, bands MAY be attracted if we increase the travel
allowances...........more bands equals bigger massed bands equals more
hype for the spectators...........equals bigger games
I had not thought of the cumulative expense to solo competitors who are
active on the circuit.......will have to throw this on the table at the next
games committee meeting !.....but as stated elsewhere, it's still a lot
cheaper than enrolling your kid in hockey ! (I'm going to get flak on
this one methinks).........
David
EdASmith
>What does everybody pay to compete in solo piping events?
>
>A few years ago, you just paid the normal games ticket price and that covered
>all the events you wanted to compete in. In the last couple of years, the
>trend has been to have the gate ticket price cover either one or two events,
>and if you want to compete in more events, you pay an additional few dollars.
>
I'm with you, Zu. With a couple of kids up and coming, I may not be able to
afford to compete.
Several years ago, I quit going to Altamont, NY when they charged admission AND
entry fee - for solo pipers. Dancers got a ticket in, as did band members, but
not solo pipers - so I quit going.
IMHO, entry fees should cover the administrative part, and perhaps medals -
anything else (judges, trophies, prize money) should be taken in at the gate,
paid for by sponsors, program advertisers, vendor's fees, etc. Pipers should
voice their concerns, and be willing to pay a reasonable fee. If we complain
too much, then the organizers will go for the 'performance band' arrangement
and no competitions. If we don't complain enough, they will have no idea why
nobody comes to their games any more.
Edward Smith
Andrew & Kristen Lenz
> >Andrew & Kristen Lenz <al...@alumni.cse.ucsc.edu> wrote in
> >> NO piping, no dancing, no weights---who would go to a highland games?
> for Andrew & Kristen......don't shoot the messenger ! (but maybe you
> aren't....I'm just to sensitive).............from the few Games where I have
> been able to look behind the scenes......they ain't money makers.......
[-snip-]
> David
No shooting here, David! ;-)
I definitely understand the highland games financial issues. The
Monterey, CA games were bumped a couple months earlier due to pressure
from the fair grounds this year, they wanted to put something else in
(to make more money). The smaller Loch Lomond, CA games went to a one
day event last year after they lost money the previous year.
So yes, I understand the financials. Just my point was that pipers are a
draw, so you want more of them---usually by charging less not more. More
pipers, more draw. That is, until the "law of diminishing returns" comes
in . . . beyond a point, it makes no difference how many pipers you have
in terms of pleasing a crowd. Economically speaking, once a games is
getting more pipers than they "need" to draw ticket buyers, they can
raise the entry fee to reduce demand or to just pull in more money.
Andrew
--
Andrew T. Lenz, Jr.
Andrew & Kristen Lenz
> I had assumed, correct me on this one, that solos will come if they want to
> compete,.... period. In other words, there is nothing we can do to entice
> more solos.(besides being well organized and on schedule)
Two things.
One, the cost of entry can be minimal compared to travel costs, loss of
work, lodging, etc. So as a percentage a slightly higher (~$10?)
probably won't make any difference in most cases (not all, see Dave/Zu's
post earlier).
Two, pipers generally are a cheap lot. It is a luxury/entertainment
thing after all. Most pipers are not in it for the money. As a luxury
item, entry fees, if they exceed a certain threshold, also exceed
expendable income or perceived value. And won't be purchased.
For the "local" piper, with a lot of games available, if costs become an
issue, obviously the most expensive games is a good candidate to be
dropped, unless there's a big advantage to attending the particular
games (meeting high ranking pipers, seeing a particular band perform,
etc.) Entry fees are a higher percentage obviously if there is no
lodging and minimal travel expenses.
> On the other hand, bands MAY be attracted if we increase the travel
> allowances...........more bands equals bigger massed bands equals more
> hype for the spectators...........equals bigger games
Given the choice between a band or a solo piper, I'd have to go with the
band also. Band members are generally not in it for the money either,
but there's the practical side of "How are we going to pay for travel
expenses??". You just have to break the "it's worth it" threshold with
allowances. What that is may take years to determine and will increase
each year! (Constant moving target.)
> I had not thought of the cumulative expense to solo competitors who are
> active on the circuit.......will have to throw this on the table at the next
> games committee meeting !.....but as stated elsewhere, it's still a lot
> cheaper than enrolling your kid in hockey ! (I'm going to get flak on
> this one methinks).........
Hockey's a little rare in California and my son's only three, so I can't
be much help there! ;-) My wife thinks piping is expensive (lessons,
seminars, etc.) but she was the one that got me into piping in the first
place! "Your grandmother will be soooo happy if you learn to play your
grandfather's pipes." Little did she know . . . ;-)
Andrew
--
Andrew & Kristen Lenz
al...@alumni.cse.ucsc.edu
Santa Cruz, California U.S.A.
John Mitchell
to
> afford to compete.
Christ all mighty, It's the typical piping attitude.
"I don't want to have to pay for anything"
Think of it this way, what does one round of golf cost or
tickets to see the average pro sports event?
If you want to play, then simply pay the dam fee.
It's your show, put on for the benefit of you the solo piper.
Whether it's 5 bucks or 8 bucks per event, we're only talking
about a difference of 2 to 3 bucks.
I watched an endurance team competition compete in Alaska.
The entry fee for each team was $17,000 bucks.
It's time to wake up, if you practice all winter long to compete,
are you going to let a few bucks get in the way.
What are we talking, maybe $130.00 bucks for the whole summer!!!!!!!!
dnimmo
John Mitchell wrote in message <38d1c281$1...@127.0.0.1>...
.
>It's your show, put on for the benefit of you the solo piper.
>
>Whether it's 5 bucks or 8 bucks per event, we're only talking
>about a difference of 2 to 3 bucks.
>
>I watched an endurance team competition compete in Alaska.
>The entry fee for each team was $17,000 bucks.
>
>It's time to wake up, if you practice all winter long to compete,
>are you going to let a few bucks get in the way.
>
>What are we talking, maybe $130.00 bucks for the whole summer!!!!!!!!
You ARE giving me ideas John ! !......maybe I can turn this into a money
making event for the games...........hmm......back to my draft of the
registration form............I could be a hero with the games treasurer if I
can pull this off !
David
aberdeen
away in droves.
Not too long ago, a competition here in Texas decided that the
individual competition wasn't a money making operation (big surprize
there). So they decided to increas the price of competing in each
event AND charge the normal ticket price as the general public to get in
the gates.
Guess what. They still didn't make money on the individual piping
competition (I suppose they just learned a lesson in what economists
call elasticity of demand).
Anyway, the next decision was to make the games more like a festival
without piping competition and that's where it is now.
The problem which many have is that in many parts of the country, there
isn't a good alternative nearby. You may be able to choose among a few
sites on the same day all within a drive of a couple of hours or so.
For people who live in many parts of the country, with only a couple of
games offered all year within reasonable driving distance the problem
is even greater.
Maybe, when they see that others like you aren't willing to pay for
competing at their games, some reasonable mind will take over and meet
the price of neighboring games.
Good luck,
Jim
In article <20000315173936...@ng-bh1.aol.com>,
zudu...@aol.com (Zudupiper) wrote:
> What does everybody pay to compete in solo piping events?
>
> A few years ago, you just paid the normal games ticket price and that
covered
> all the events you wanted to compete in. In the last couple of years,
the
> trend has been to have the gate ticket price cover either one or two
events,
> and if you want to compete in more events, you pay an additional few
dollars.
> Last season the competition entry fees ranged from about $8 on up to
$15 (I
> think) at Loon, with the average being about $12 or so.
>
> The reason I ask, is that I recently got an entry form from the Red
Bank NJ
> games (coming up on 5/6) and the solo piping entry fee is $7 per
event. For a
> total of $21.
>
> I emailed the piping director and told him that his entry fees are out
of
> whack. His response was that I always have the option not to compete
there,
> and that it costs a lot of money to put on a games.
>
> This particular games never offered solo competitions before, and I
think
> somebody gave them bad advice on what to charge. People should
complain. I
> did, and I'm not even going. It's a ripoff.
>
> Zu
>
--
Jim Hudgins
Aberdeen Bagpipe Supply
<http://www.AberdeenBagpipe.com>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Zudupiper
Look closer at Shrewsbury. For grade 4 and 5 pipers, it's $8 *TOTAL*. For
Manchester, which is run by the same folks, it's $8 for grades 4 & 5, and $10
for grades 3 and above.
>Nobodys getting rich even at DOUBLE the
>normal entry fees.
That's not my point.
>But some games are better organized than others
True, very true. But I don't think there's a correlation between
organizational ability and competition fees. If there was, I'd pay a
surcharge! ; )
Zu
Zudupiper
>AND
>entry fee - for solo pipers. Dancers got a ticket in, as did band members,
>but
>not solo pipers - so I quit going.
Hmmm, just the reverse happened last year. I entered for solos, and my entry
fee got me a ticket to the gate for Sat. But then I was part of a pickup band
for Beers & Cheers on Sunday, and I had to pay to get in.
Everybody got it back a couple weeks later when the travel money came in. B&C
is a good deal....costs $100 to enter, and every band is guaranteed $300.
Since we're a pickup band we're never in the prize list, but it's lots of fun.
Zu
Zudupiper
>active on the circuit.......
And that's another good point.
It's not just the getting there, it's the gigs you have to pass up to compete
at a games. Especially certain weekends, like Labor Day and Columbus Day.
Those are big wedding weekends, and I usually do a couple of weddings each of
those weekends. $200+ per gig, and if I have a choice to stay home and play 2
gigs, or go compete at a games, it can be a tough call depending how I'm doing
that year in solos.
A "local" games in New England takes up most of the day. There's about 6 of
those, and there are another half dozen that mean taking Friday off work to get
there, and a hotel and food while you're there.
But most of the games are a lot of fun. There are a lot of new games this
year, for some reason, so there's more opportunity to compete. And more
chances to make up for the competitions I miss due to gigs.
You can also look at it this way...one gig pays for a weekend at the games.
Zu
John Mitchell
> And that's another good point.
>
> It's not just the getting there, it's the gigs you have to pass up to
compete
> at a games. Especially certain weekends, like Labor Day and Columbus Day.
You just don't get it, do you Zu!
Zudupiper
>
Get what?
; )
Zu
ccc31807
<sunn...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Zudupiper <zudu...@aol.com> wrote
>> And that's another good point.
>>
>> It's not just the getting there, it's the gigs you have to
pass up to
>compete
>> at a games. Especially certain weekends, like Labor Day and
Columbus Day.
>
Sorry, John, on this one I have to side with Zu. YOU just don't
get it. Unless you can provide some reasoned, congent
explanation, it's point, set, and match to Zu.
John Mitchell
>
> Sorry, John, on this one I have to side with Zu. YOU just don't
> get it. Unless you can provide some reasoned, congent
> explanation, it's point, set, and match to Zu.
So what is the true monetary costs to compete?
As they say in the commercial:
Cost of entry fees, $21.00
Cost of motel, $85.00
Cost for tranport, $35.00
Cost of lost income $200.00
Cost of winning a medal for a job well done. $PRICELESS!
Zu loses!
John Mitchell
>
> Zu
And that's another point that I meant to bring up.
Band members are always on about the money they spend at games.
Well, you're going to spend it staying at home too.
The Cost of staying at home.
Price of Beer $32.00
Price of snacks $15.00
Price of pizza $15.00
Price of video $12.00
The cost of missing out on the fun and laughter at the games $irreplaceable!
Zudupiper
>As they say in the commercial:
>
>Cost of entry fees, $21.00
>Cost of motel, $85.00
>Cost for tranport, $35.00
>Cost of lost income $200.00
>
>Cost of winning a medal for a job well done. $PRICELESS!
>
>Zu loses!
Okay, I'll accept that as a cogent, reasoned argument. I thought that's what
you were getting at before. It's not really about the money, but it's not as
simple as all that either.
I did mention that my own gig-versus- competition decision depends on a number
of things.
1. How am I doing? If I'm finishing at the bottom of the pack consistently,
there's not a lot of incentive to go out of my way to compete until I fix
whatever problems are keeping me out of the prizes. Might as well stay home
and make some cash playing STB and simple stuff.
2. Regardless of #1 above, do I *want* to compete? If it's an early season
games, you betcha. If I think I've improved since last time out, you betcha.
OTOH, At some times of the year there are games every other weekend. 2 weeks
isn't enough time to fix major problems, if that's what I'm having.
3. Is it a games I particularly like, or is there some other reason that I want
to go to the games? Some games I like more than others, for whatever reason.
Some games I just won't miss out on, other games are less of a favorite and I
don't mind passing them up.
4. Let's be mercenary for a minute. Sometimes we all need a little extra cash.
Several times I've been registered to compete at games, and a funeral or some
other last-minute gig comes in. You can't do both. Sometimes I have to go for
the money.
Remember, I'm not in a band. So I'm not letting anybody down if I decide not
to compete.
It's not like I'm a teenager either, who's on the fast track to grade 1 and
who's in a band and goes to lots of games anyway so he might as well compete.
Teenagers have parents who drive them, pay for everything, they don't have to
work, etc etc etc.
Zudupiper
>
Naw, you just go to the NEXT games and see the same people, have fun, etc etc
etc.
It's like being on the pro golf circuit. I see the same pipers at most of the
games, no matter where the games are, and I see these guys more than I see my
next door neighbors.
It's a strange world we pipers live in.
Zu
Beginnertunes
>Price of snacks $15.00
>Price of pizza $15.00
>Price of video $12.00
>
Move to the US and save money John...
Price of beer $6
Price of snacks 2$
Price of pizza $6
Price of video Free (borrow a porn flick from the neighbors) But even if you
rent it, it's $2 tops!
Your living in the wrong country.
ccc31807
life forever. You play at someone's wedding or funeral or
similar event, those people will remember you for the rest of
their lives, and appreciate the fact that you contributed
something valuable to the occasion.
Winning a medal - $PRICELESS
Being a part of someone's memories forever - $PRICELESS
JM says you always go to the games regardless.
TD says you make a case by case decision, and not adopt an
inflexible rule.
This is a no-brainer. Sorry, John, but you still lose.
John Mitchell
ccc31807 <ccc31807...@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote in
> JM says you always go to the games regardless.
> TD says you make a case by case decision, and not adopt an
> inflexible rule.
>
> This is a no-brainer. Sorry, John, but you still lose.
Tell you what Charlie, you go to all the boring wedding and funeral
ceremonies,
and I'll attend all of the games and festivals.
Do you still feel like a winner now? <evil grin>
oshpiper
"John Mitchell" <sunn...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Well, you're going to spend it staying at home too.
>
> The Cost of staying at home.
>
> Price of Beer $32.00
> Price of snacks $15.00
> Price of pizza $15.00
> Price of video $12.00
>
> The cost of missing out on the fun and laughter at the games
$irreplaceable!
Hey, John. You forgot to include one other item and its cost:
Price of Eggs $.98 (for the egg toss)
The cost of missing out on the fun of seeing egg on John's face...no one
would miss that!
Pat
John Mitchell
news:8b376s$s7m$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Hey, John. You forgot to include one other item and its cost:
>
> Price of Eggs $.98 (for the egg toss)
>
> The cost of missing out on the fun of seeing egg on John's face...no one
> would miss that!
Look again Patrick, the Yoke is on you! HAHAHAHAHHAH!
ccc31807
<sunn...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Tell you what Charlie, you go to all the boring wedding and
funeral
>ceremonies,
>and I'll attend all of the games and festivals.
>
>Do you still feel like a winner now?
Tell you what, Johnny boy, you pay to play all you want, and
I'll play to be paid, and we'll both be happy!
John Mitchell
> Tell you what, Johnny boy, you pay to play all you want, and
> I'll play to be paid, and we'll both be happy!
>
Some jobs are just not worth the pay, but do keep us
informed if anything exciting should ever happen.
Problem is, the Chauffeur driver gets paid more for less effort!
Christ, the floweres are even worth more than the piper!
I'll take the games anyday!
Zudupiper
>life forever. You play at someone's wedding or funeral or
>similar event, those people will remember you for the rest of
>their lives, and appreciate the fact that you contributed
>something valuable to the occasion.
And sometimes, it's nice to be the best piper in the house. Sometimes you have
to be the ONLY piper in the house for this to happen ; )
>Winning a medal - $PRICELESS
Yes.
>Being a part of someone's memories forever - $PRICELESS
Hmmm....we do get jaded as we go along and it ceases to mean as much to us as
it does to the people we pipe for. But yes, the people will always remember
that there was a piper at the wedding/ funeral/ whatever.
Sometimes people send me thank-you notes after the event, saying how much they
appreciated my playing....and that's after they paid me, and in some cases even
tipped me to boot.
Zu
Bob Cameron
John Mitchell wrote:snip
The Cost of staying at home.
>
> Price of Beer $32.00
> Price of snacks $15.00
> Price of pizza $15.00
> Price of video $12.00
Geeze, John, remind me never to invite you down- you eat and drink enough in a
weekend to keeop a small fraternity going!
Bob Cameron
John Mitchell wrote:
> ccc31807 <ccc31807...@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote in
> > JM says you always go to the games regardless.
> > TD says you make a case by case decision, and not adopt an
> > inflexible rule.
> >
> > This is a no-brainer. Sorry, John, but you still lose.
>
> Tell you what Charlie, you go to all the boring wedding and funeral
> ceremonies,
> and I'll attend all of the games and festivals.
>
> Do you still feel like a winner now? <evil grin>
Sounds like Zu, andf the folks for whom he plays still win out there- he
with the money and experience, they withthe musical experience and
memories they want, and you far away in at the festival- everybody
getting what they want! -works for me
Bob Cameron
Zudupiper wrote:snip
>
> Hmmm....we do get jaded as we go along and it ceases to mean as much to us as
> it does to the people we pipe for. But yes, the people will always remember
> that there was a piper at the wedding/ funeral/ whatever.
>
> Sometimes people send me thank-you notes after the event, saying how much they
> appreciated my playing....and that's after they paid me, and in some cases even
> tipped me to boot.
>
> Zu
Yep- and then there are the ones who send you photos from thir weddings, and those
who send their friends./ rlatives/co-workers who have weddings and other functions
coming up.
It all comes down to this, IMHO- if yoy find those gigs boring, do everyone a
favor and stay away from them. there are enough competent pipers who are glad to
do them. John you have my pemission to go to my share of the games. drink my share
of beer, pay my share of entry fees etc. if that's what you want to do. I'l l be
quite happy to stay close to haome and play my $200 weddings, graduations, And
the occasional $400 pub crawl I like I fg had on Friday...
atlpipemaj
zudu...@aol.com (Zudupiper) wrote:
>>While I am agree that paying $21 dollars to compete may seem a
>>little high, it is important to remember that it is still in
the opening
>>stages.
>
>Which is why I pointed out to the piping director that his
entry fees are 50%
>above the highest I've ever paid. Maybe he got bad advice or
something.
>
>In my private email to him, I called this a "reality check".
His reply was
>essentially unprintable. So the reality check bounced.
>
>>Remember if you do not want to pay, you
>>can always stay home....
>
>I can and I will. But the point of all this is that if a games
is going to
>charge a ridiculous amount for solo entries, they should have
some clue.
>
>Zu
>
>
>zu....i am the piping director in question and after you said
that the red bank games were minor league..(even though we offer
the highest prize money in north america)..and that we were way
out of line with our fees..( we are having a good response
without you)..and after saying that i was cockeyeddid you expect
any response other than "piss off"..??...i guess if the 7 dollar
fee per event is too much for you..maybe it is too far for you
to travel to us anyway...maybe i should move the games to your
back yard and then it would be better for you....sorry..zu..we
don't miss you..!! :)
Zudupiper
>that the red bank games were minor league..
They are unproven as far as solos go, and as a solo piper I don't care how the
band side of the house works. So as far as I'm concerned, you're not in the
same league as Loon.
>.(even though we offer
>the highest prize money in north america).
Yeah, and you make the solo pipers pay for most of it apparently. I don't care
about your prize money for bands. You mentioned that in ech and every email we
exchanged.
>..and that we were way
>out of line with our fees..
Correct. I think so, and other NG members think so. Check the archives on
this thread.
>.and after saying that i was cockeyeddid you expect
>any response other than "piss off"..?
Well, now you've let the whole NG see what a nimrod you are.
BTW, your reality check bounced again. On Friday I got a fresh, brand-new
entry form from the Red Bank Ripoff, er, Games. I thought you meant to take me
off the mailing list permanently (per your email), not add me in again.
If this is a sample of your organizational abilities, I'm glad I'm staying
home.
>sorry..zu..we
>don't miss you..!!
Nor I you ; )
Zu
Beginnertunes
>this thread.
What? Where'd that come from? I didn't see but maybe one person out of all the
posts on the subject that agreed with you Dave.
Your statement about them being "uproven in solos" is ridiculous. If they can
organize band comps, they easily do solos just as well. and the prize money is
the highest I've ever seen.
And you could possibly win MONEY <swinging a shiny object back and forth> MONEY
MONEY AND MORE MONEY!!!
>>.and after saying that i was cockeyeddid you expect
>>any response other than "piss off"..?
>
>Well, now you've let the whole NG see what a nimrod you are.
>
Again, you need a reality check Dave. Didn't you instigate this whole thing by
sending private emails to the guy complaining about high fees that so far only
you have complined about? Then you brought your one man war here.
>On Friday I got a fresh, brand-new
>entry form from the Red Bank
Just a little joke on their part I'm sure... hee hee hee
Scotia Aye!
Bill
rya...@my-deja.com
zudu...@aol.com (Zudupiper) wrote:
> 4. Let's be mercenary for a minute. Sometimes we all need a little
extra cash.
> Several times I've been registered to compete at games, and a funeral
or some
> other last-minute gig comes in. You can't do both. Sometimes I have
to go for
> the money.
>
> Remember, I'm not in a band. So I'm not letting anybody down if I
decide not
> to compete.
Zu,
There is alot to be said about earning a little extra money playing
gigs, but it cannot take over your entire life. You once said that you
objected to band playing because you were not paid for it, yet that
same attitude drives solo competitions. Until you get into the top
professional contests you are not paid, does that fact keep you from
participating.
You will not get rich from playing jobs and if your attitude is
just about making money than solo and band competitions do not seem
advisable. The difference between solo and band competitions is that
with band competitions you are a member of team. To be absolutely
honest, given the choice of only being able to compete in solos or
band, I would readily choose band.
If the only reason that you play is to make money, try taking up
a more profitable business such as a paper route or such. Without
trying to be critical at all, I am just saying that you should be
playing for the enjoyment of the music not to profit off of it.
Ryan
ccc31807
private gigs for free?
My answer is - certainly not always, but I find myself playing
more free gigs than paying ones, at charitable events, churches,
schools, etc. After all, this is what we do, and I don't think
that we should be so mercenary as to never play except for
payment.
Anyway, getting back to the original question, in the event of a
conflict between a paying gig (or a non-paying for that matter)
and a competition, Zu said we should have no fixed rule but
decide on a case by case basis. John said that we should always
compete, regardless of the nature of the gig. I agree with Zu,
that we cannot commit inflexibly to one of the other, but must
treat each situation individually, even though I respect John
for his poinion.
In article <8b734e$l7q$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, rya...@my-deja.com
wrote:
Zudupiper
>the
>posts on the subject that agreed with you Dave.
I remember several different posts that pegged the average entry fee at around
$10-$12. Sounds like agreement to me.
>Your statement about them being "uproven in solos" is ridiculous.
Explain your statement. If they have never offered solos before, they're
unproven as far as I'm concerned.
>and the prize money is
>the highest I've ever seen.
>And you could possibly win MONEY
Here we go again with the prize money.
>Didn't you instigate this whole thing by
>sending private emails to the guy complaining about high fees that so far
>only
>you have complined about? Then you brought your one man war here.
Yes I did. The point is, people OUGHT to complain. It's ridiculous.
Dave
Zudupiper
>private gigs for free?
>
Sure, sometimes. For a couple of charity events, at my daughters' school, for
International Day at work, things like that.
>My answer is - certainly not always, but I find myself playing
>more free gigs than paying ones,
That was true when I first started piping. The free gigs outnumbered the paid
ones something like 3 to 1. Then gradually the ratio evened out, and now it's
probably 10% free, 90% paid.
>After all, this is what we do, and I don't think
>that we should be so mercenary as to never play except for
>payment.
True, and depending on who's doing the hiring, I give them a much-reduced rate.
Schools and such don't have a lot of money.
OTOH, I finally figured out that wedding people have tons of money, and I
charge accordingly.
Funerals are somewhere in the middle.
Zu
Beginnertunes
>around
>$10-$12. Sounds like agreement to me.
I think they agreed with your numbers, but not your sentiments.
>Explain your statement. If they have never offered solos before, they're
>unproven as far as I'm concerned.
Well I could be wrong here, but isn't it tougher to organize a band comp than a
solo comp? Logic would seem to dictate that. So if they can do a good job at
organizing band comps (I hear they have the highest prize money, AND are on of
the better organized games around, so who can argue?
>Yes I did. The point is, people OUGHT to complain. It's ridiculous.
Well since you are the ONLY ONE whose done so so far, I think this is a one man
war.
I've been in touch with Ernie (organizer for those games) and as of yesterday
they had received a total of (1) that's "one" complaint regarding fees.
That says it all...
Scotia Aye!
Bill
Royce Lerwick
<ccc31807...@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>It is patently ridiculous to expect that solo entry fees come
>anywhere close to covering a piping competition. If you have 50
>contestants and the entry fee is $10, that is a total of $500 in
>entry fees. 100 contestants at $12 each is $1,200. The budget
>for a competition is at least a minimum of $7,000, and for a
>larger competition is more like $15,000. Solo entry fees are a
>drop in the bucket compared to the total cost. Charge too much
>and you chase off competitors.
Gee. Wonder how COMPANA is going to fund its competitions with 500
bucks. Won't put on much of a blowout.
Royce
Zudupiper
>they had received a total of (1) that's "one" complaint regarding fees.
>That says it all...
Yeah, I guess I'm just the Andy Rooney of the NG.
Zu
Beginnertunes
>
>Zu
No Dave your not, and I'm not trying to piss you off, but those are the facts.
Scotia Aye!
Bill