bagpipes THE hardest instrument???
Mindy Fulk
I heard something in a workshop a few months ago that I still have not
figured out..
Where did the myth that bagpipes are THE hardest instrument to play come
from, and why do people honestly believe it??
I am a far cry from Worral, Gandy etc. on the pipes, but other pipers do
not cringe when I play..
I know that the pipes are not easy..
But I am also taking violin lessons, and I know that there is so much
more to it... Also I was a performance music major, bassoon being my
instrument of destruction at the time, and there again, there is so much
more involved in playing the instrument than there is to piping.
(IE embochure changes with notes, having to play notes higher in some
keys, lower in others.. Changes in keys 12 major, 12 minor and several
forms of each minor... Changes in volume, changes in blowing according to
all the above mentioned...etc.etc.etc...)
If there us disagreement from those that play the pipes as well as
other instruments, I am very intrigued to hear an explanation.
Thanks!
-Mindy
CalecM
earned his MFA playing the lute.
C. Alec MacLean
cal...@aol.com
Kent C. Brodie
: risking tons of flames...
: I heard something in a workshop a few months ago that I still have not
: figured out..
: Where did the myth that bagpipes are THE hardest instrument to play come
: from, and why do people honestly believe it??
It's certainly just that-- a MYTH. I have played trumpet most of the
years of my life, and only started learning bagpipes this past October.
Although I am not quite sure it's the HARDEST instrument I have tried,
I have to admit, it's one of the most UNIQUE learning experiences I've
ever had. All this time, I've used my lungs/lips/tongue to do
the musical annotation-- volume changes, various types of emphasis,
etc. Now, it's ALL in the fingers, and the concept of gracenotes
is still pretty cool to me.
One of the things that also sets bagpipes apart is the simple fact
that they do not exist in a normal "band". You can take just about
any other instrument, and hitch up with a local community band or
group, but with the bagpipes-- you MUST seek out other pipers!
I also am somewhat dismayed at my late timing in getting started--
I had assumed, incorrectly, for years, that learning bagpipes would
cost me a fortune in lessons. Thus, I kept putting it off. I finally
called, and learned, to my surprise, that our local band provides FREE
instruction! (on the assumption, of course, that I will JOIN their
band, which is what I do indeed want to do!).
I also disagree that ALL instruments are "difficult". I found
learning to play the trumpet quite easy... but I never had the
"thrill" I am getting now, learning a very UNIQUE instrument.
-Hoping to be in competition someday, -Kent Brodie
--
--------------
Kent C. Brodie - Sr. Systems/Network Manager bro...@post.its.mcw.edu
Information Technology Systems
Medical College of Wisconsin (414) 456-5080
John Wash
Mindy Fulk <fu...@river.it.gvsu.edu> wrote:
>risking tons of flames...
>I heard something in a workshop a few months ago that I still have not
>figured out..
>Where did the myth that bagpipes are THE hardest instrument to play come
>from, and why do people honestly believe it??
>
>not cringe when I play..
>
>
>If there us disagreement from those that play the pipes as well as
>other instruments, I am very intrigued to hear an explanation.
------------------------------------------------------------
WARNING! THIS IS A VERY LONG MESSAGE! PREPARE TO BE BORED!
------------------------------------------------------------
This is an interesting topic. Bagpipes are not hard to play; they're hard
to play well. I've tried several different kinds of pipes and own far more
kinds of pipes than I should. This is not an uninformed opinion, but it
is an OPINION just the same. You may disagree, but please don't flame.
I started out as a rock bassist. I played the really bizarre, complicated
progressive stuff like Rush, Yes and Jethro Tull. It was hard, but not
as hard as the highland pipes.
Then I played drumset, which was far more difficult than any bagpipe
I've ever tried to play. This gets my vote for most difficult instrument.
Sure, anyone can tap eighth notes on a ride cymbal, kick the bass on
1 and 3, and hit the snare on 2 and 4, but try adding in diddly little
high-hat work, triplets, crash/splash/etc. cymbals, and any snare work
beyond the level of a rank beginner highland drummer and they become
immensely difficult.
Then I played rhythm guitar. A cakewalk compared to highland pipes (or
just about anything, for that matter).
Then I played whistle. I've heard so many good whistle players who are
terrible pipers, but I've never heard a good piper who was a bad whistle
player. This, plus my personal experience, makes me say that whistle
is pretty much another cakewalk. I love playing whistle.
Then I picked up the doumbek, a middle eastern drum, because my wife
is a belly dancer. "Remedially simple" is how I'd describe this. But
fun....
Between rhythm guitar and whistle, I started learning how to play the
highland pipes. I was amazed at how difficult they were to play well.
I *still* can't play them well, and I've been playing for three years.
Jigs that I could rip out at 140bpm on a whistle get me finger-tied
on the highland pipes at anything over 124bpm. Reels I play at
112 on the whistle give me caniption fits at 96 on the GHB.
First, most pipes are reed instruments with mutiple reeds. All reed
musicians know how funny reeds are about changes in temperature, heat,
pressure and humidity. Now take one double reed and three single
eeds, stick them in the same wooden instrument, add one piper and you
have... an immense headache. I wake up in the middle of the night
in a cold sweat after having nightmares about my reeds. My greatest,
most secret fantasy is to play a set of pipes that are perfectly in
tune and will stay stable for a three hour band practice without
having to move tape on the chanter, sink or raise a reed, or touch
the drones. (Hey, I said it was a fantasy.) Before you can even play
a tune you have to have a well-tuned, playable set of pipes. Saying
that is somewhat akin to saying, "all you have to do to win a
weightlifting competition is be really strong."
A bad instrument makes it almost impossible to play something well.
This is truer for pipes than for any other instrument I've ever tried.
Secondly, the GHB are VERY particular about accurate fingering, and if
you want decent tone then you can't be sloppy. If you're playing
in a military competition style like most highland pipers, there are
all of those little bleeps and blups that I call "pains in the ass"
(pronounced "grace notes"; the "P" is silent). Technically, they put
you in a completely different league from other musicians. Not only
do you have to play all of the big notes, you have to play all of the
little notes in between that are written as 32nd notes but are really
more like 128th notes. And you have to play them clearly. And where
they belong. And fast. And with everyone else if you're playing in a
band. It's not easy.
Add to that something that's even more important than technical ability,
and something that most classical/pop/rock musicians will never
understand: feel and expression. Without expression there is no music,
period. Many musicians (classically trained or otherwise) go through
life reading dots on a page and never learn to feel the music that
they're making. I'm lucky enough to learn from and play in a pipe band
where there is a great emphasis placed on expression, and so I really
appreciate this aspect of it.
How many pipers do you know who play other instruments? How many
of them are terrible pipers? I know plenty of pipers who couldn't
carry a tune in a box on the highland pipes that are amazing flautists,
whistle players, saxophonists, ad infinitum. I know very few good
highland pipers who aren't also good on any other reed or wind
instrument that they play. This might be a faulty conclusion, but
I am led by this to believe that bagpipes are harder to play than
other reeded or wind instruments.
I also find that certain types of pipes are harder to play than
others. There are lots of tunes I can play on the Scottish small
pipes (dance tunes, mostly) that I can't begin to play on the
highland pipes. I play or have played a few different kinds of
pipes (not very well), but here they are ranked in the order of
most difficult to least difficult:
1. Uilleann pipes (even practice sets are amazingly difficult. I have
never even tried playing with drones or regulators.)
2. Military-competition style highland pipes (The technicality of
competition playing kills me.)
3. Border pipes (EXTREMELY sensitive to changes in bag pressure, and
my set responds in weird ways to some top-hand gracings.)
4. Gaelic-style highland pipes (You have to play at dance tempos, which
means faster than competition-style, but the gracings aren't
as critical
5. Scottish small pipes (very stable, easy to play fast; generally
even highland gracings are easier to play. Chanter responds
completely differently from highland pipes so some gracings
don't sound as good.)
6. English great pipes (simply a delight to play, barring the usual
bagpipe instrument strangeness.)
I'd stick Northumbrian pipes in there somewhere around #4, but I really
don't have enough experience to say exactly what troubles I have with
them. It might just be that a totally new fingering system is confusing
me, or it might be that they really are that difficult to play. To be
honest I really kind of expect them to come closer to the SSP. I have to
say that the Northumbrians I'm playing now are probably one of the better
made and reeded pipes I've ever had the pleasure to squeeze. I'm not now
nor have I ever been a Northumbrian piper, so please don't think that I
know what I'm talking about.
I do go a long way towards making sure I have the best instruments that
I can buy. I play a set of 1910 MacDougall highland pipes manipulated
weekly by reed master and Bagpipe Web magnate Howard Sanford, sets of
Hamish Moore Scottish small pipes and border pipes overhauled by Hamish
Himself at least once a year, a set of Nick Whitmer uilleann pipes that
were "tuned up" by Patrick Sky, one of the foremost authorities on UP
in the USA, and a set of Julian Goodacre English great pipes that
Howard has blessed fairly regularly.
Good instruments makes "the musical experience" so much more pleasant.
They also make for a very small bank balance. I highly recommend not
becoming addicted to bagpipes, but I do suggest getting the highest
quality pipes you can afford.
Sooo, to summarize, I think bagpipes are harder to play because, well,
they're complicated and, uh, well, hard to play.
As David Daye always says, "YMMV." Mine certainly does.
jwash
bagpipe geek
--
- Electronic Freedom March on Washington -- June 30, 1996 http://www.efm.org -
- ----------------------------- jw...@tico.com --------------------------- -
- "It is definitely Monday. Or, well, it was, and it still is, even if -
- "it's technically Tuesday now." -- Abby Franquemont-Guillory on a.s.r -
Alexander Platt
improvisation. I've spent a number of years training as a jazz bassist,
and find that playing the pipes is a great departure from having to
activelly think about what you're playing. It is an entirely different
matter to spontaneously create a walking bassline that's interesting to
play, listen to and supportive of the other musicians, and to play a
composed piece of music.
--
Alex Platt (LHO)
David C Daye
>Where did the myth that bagpipes are THE hardest instrument to play come
>from, and why do people honestly believe it??
There's a grain of truth. The "classic" or contest *style* is very demanding,
and it may arguably be about the most demanding technique compared with
the complexity of music it is used to produce. If you ever try teaching
you'll see some very musical people fail to acquire the narrow but
extreme skills of piping. This is the subject of some heated philosophy
debates within piping. ;)
>But I am also taking violin lessons, and I know that there is so much
>more to it.
In all around musicianship, absolutely no doubt. There are even other
bagpipes that require more all-around musical skill than GHB.
"YMMV!"
--
David Daye. Scot & http://www-bprc.mps.ohio-state.edu/~bdaye/bagpipes.html
uillean pipes. Pipe & reed modification diagrams, sound files of GHB
Columbus Ohio USA a440 & UP trad/silly. Beginner tips & Sounds of Extra
day...@osu.edu Terrier-Estrial Intelligence. Revised 03 March 1996.
oph...@pop.uky.edu
>
>3. Border pipes (EXTREMELY sensitive to changes in bag pressure, and
> my set responds in weird ways to some top-hand gracings.)
>I play a set of ....border pipes overhauled by Hamish
Thank you for the above quotes - and I thought it was me that was the problem with my border pipes. If i squeeze too hard, the low A goes north (doubles); too soft and it goes away (silence). Two out of 3 drones would be a delight - happens once a month.
Ah well - do such pipes need "blessing" regularly?
Elmar T. Schmeisser oph...@pop.uky.edu Univ. of Kentucky, Lexington
br...@ais.com
>In article <Pine.HPP.3.91.960324...@river.it.gvsu.edu>,
>Mindy Fulk <fu...@river.it.gvsu.edu> wrote:
>
>>Where did the myth that bagpipes are THE hardest instrument to play come
>>from, and why do people honestly believe it??
>
>There's a grain of truth. The "classic" or contest *style* is very demanding,
>and it may arguably be about the most demanding technique compared with
>the complexity of music it is used to produce. If you ever try teaching
>you'll see some very musical people fail to acquire the narrow but
>extreme skills of piping. This is the subject of some heated philosophy
>debates within piping. ;)
You can argue fairly strongly that there is no such thing as a "hardest
instrument" -- that in some sense, all instruments are equally difficult,
because the musicians just push the "simpler" instruments to the limits
of their mental and physiological capacity. (That's not to say that
the most common _styles_ of music played using different instruments aren't
more or less difficult than each other). The GHB is a rather simple and
limited instrument, but the consequence is that the technique within those
limits can be that much more perfected.
Where there is a grain of truth to the notion that the pipes are the
hardest instrument is that the pipes, along with instruments such as
the violin, probably have some of the steepest learning curves before the
beginner is at least marginally presentable in public. The largest single
item in both cases is probably learning to play in tune; although the
problem does exist to some degree in other wind instruments, limiting the
range of notes used at first to the easiest octave or so makes listening
to a beginner much less painful than listening to a beginner on the pipes
or the violin. Even if a beginner is lucky enough to have Colin MacLellan
set up his pipes, the fact that he is one of the best people in the world
at setting up the pipes won't help much if the beginner hasn't yet learned
how to blow in tune; and of course, most beginners aren't that lucky.
The high degree of technical accuracy demanded by military style piping
also makes that style difficult, but many pipers do not aspire to such
standards. It's possible to play quite pleasant tunes with very few grace
notes, but it's not possible to sound very good if you're not in tune, no
matter what degree of technical proficiency (or lack thereof) you may have
achieved on the chanter.
Just my 2 cents worth,
Bruce C. Wright
Ken Gordon
Read Mr. John Wash's comments on this subject. Very thorough and clear.
I also was taught/learned to play the piano and classic guitar before I
started to learn to play the pipes. Learning to the play the GHB _WELL_ was
the single most difficult thing I ever tried to do.
And this includes electrical engineering.
Carmel Turner
> risking tons of flames...
> I heard something in a workshop a few months ago that I still have not
> figured out..
> Where did the myth that bagpipes are THE hardest instrument to play come
> from, and why do people honestly believe it??
>
> I am a far cry from Worral, Gandy etc. on the pipes, but other pipers do
> not cringe when I play..
> I know that the pipes are not easy..
> But I am also taking violin lessons, and I know that there is so much
> more to it... Also I was a performance music major, bassoon being my
> instrument of destruction at the time, and there again, there is so much
> more involved in playing the instrument than there is to piping.
> (IE embochure changes with notes, having to play notes higher in some
> keys, lower in others.. Changes in keys 12 major, 12 minor and several
> forms of each minor... Changes in volume, changes in blowing according to
> all the above mentioned...etc.etc.etc...)
>
> If there us disagreement from those that play the pipes as well as
> other instruments, I am very intrigued to hear an explanation.
> Thanks!
>
Mindy, I for one can only agree with you! As a pianist of 17 years
practice and a violinist of 16 years, and an enthusiastic piper who took up the
bagpipes about 18 months ago, I'd definitely say that they are NOT the
hardest instrument! Yes, they are hard, but really, there is heaps
more to master on these other instruments. Key changes, position
changes, learning to do vibrato freely, etc etc. I too would be intrigued
to hear an explanation of this myth about the pipes being the hardest
instrument to learn!
BTW Mindy, best of luck with your violin lessons! Persevere!
Cheers
Carmel
PhD Student
Victorian Institute of Animal Science
Australia
John Taylor Morrissey
I have (piping) experience with Uilleann, Asturian, Galician, and
nasal inhalation hornpipes, though not with Scotch pipes (so far). I
agree with a lot of what you say EXCEPT:
On a full-set of UILLEANN pipes (3 or more keyed regulators, 3 or more
drones, 5-key chanter with fully chromatic scale similar to oboe) you
have to:
1. Keep wind to up to 8 pipes (4 or more of which are large double reeds)
2. Distinguish four different air pressures (soft and hard bottom D,
second octave, top D and up to F sharp in third).
3. Momentarily close all holes to get second octave.
4. Lift chanter off knee for bottom D and certain effects (popping), keep
in airtight on knee (or leather pad) for all other notes.
5. Be careful when varying bag pressure not to shut off the bass drone
(very easy to do).
6. Play chordal, harmonic or rhythmic accompaniment on the regulators
with the right hand, while playing the melody on the chanter at the same
time.
7. Bring the drones in or take them out for effect while playing (or
bring the chanter in after starting out on the drones)(or bring the
drones and the chanter in after starting out on the regulators) (or
bring.....)
Otherwise, I believe that with 'primitive' bagpipes (the word is not
meant to offend, I think the Scotch bagpipes are beautiful, including the
chanter tuning), playing is a lot simpler than for most other wind
instruments.
All the best,
John Taylor.
Charles R. Fowler
Once every several months teaching a student, or performing a
concert... someone will ask me is the bagpipes the hardest instrument
to play?
I feel like every musical instrument from voice, winds, brass, and
percussion has its own equal amount of work. You can produce a nice
tone from a penny whistle or a recorder in a very short time... my four
year old daughter can play a simple scale on the whistle... but to play
with personal style, phrasing, breathing, good intonation,
musicianship, good fingerings, and etc. it takes work.
The bagpipes you need to work out fingerings, styles, ear training for
the relationship of the drones to the chanter, musicianship, and etc.
it takes work. Even the saxophonist or oboist needs to work on
styles, technique, intonation, musicanship, and etc.... it takes work.
When I am working with individual students, I am always preaching to
them the goal that you want to reach with you instrument is the feeling
that the instrument is only an extension of yourself... it is part of
yourself.... and man, that takes a lot work.
I have had students who can start producing a sound and seems to move
quickly with their progress and I had students (only a few) that takes
almost all year to get them to finger a simple scale. I tell you, the
one who are moving nicely are the ones that works at it and one
struggling with the scale is the one looking for that magic dust that
will make him/her play without working at it.
Then there are students who play other instruments very well and want
to play the pipes and they seem to forgotten that it takes good slow
work to get them there.
What I am getting at is that it is the work you put behind any
instrument makes it easy or hard... playing an instrument is easy but
performing on the instrument with good sound expression and personal
style, it takes work.
I should also point, which is a very subjective feeling of myself, not
everyone can play the Bagpipes, Saxophone, Drums, Piano, or whatever
and always felt like that is because the personality is not a piper, or
not a saxophonist... but when giving instruction it is not my duty to
judge the individual personality and said to him... hey, you are not a
piper, you are an oboist. That is for the individual to discover about
himself. But when I am giving instruction, I never say to a student
you are a beginner because I feel like it make to student feel less of
himself or herself... However, I explain to them that you are a novice
and when you walk into my studio for instruction I see you as a piper
who is on the track working to improve his/her skills as a musician.
(Oh well very subjective).
If you want to play the pipes... be a piper and work for it as my Jazz
musicians freinds will say, pay the dues.
Take care,
Charles
John Wash
That's just not true. Maybe there's no improvisation in the style of
piping in which you play, but there certainly is in some of the styles
in which I play. Bagpipe Web whizbang guy Howard Sanford was at my house
last night playing English pipes and was making up harmonies on the fly.
And while you're at it, check out some of the stuff by Dick Lee and Hamish
Moore. That's even done with highland pipes.
We sometimes forget that there are lots of different kinds of pipes
with even more different kinds of piping styles....
John
John Wash
>In <4j5a5i$j...@taco.cc.ncsu.edu>, jw...@ch9000.chem.ncsu.edu (John Wash) writes:
>>
>> my set responds in weird ways to some top-hand gracings.)
>>I play a set of ....border pipes overhauled by Hamish
>>Himself at least once a year
>
>Thank you for the above quotes - and I thought it was me that was the problem with my border pipes. If i squeeze too hard, the low A goes north (doubles); too soft and it goes away (silence). Two out of 3 drones would be a delight - happens once a month.
>Ah well - do such pipes need "blessing" regularly?
Bagpipes often take frequent "blessings," though bellows pipes need far
fewer than mouthblown pipes. If you get them playing well then you
probably won't need to do too much to them unless the environment
(temperature, humidity, etc.) changes dramatically from the point
at which they were last "blessed."
John
dor...@oz.sunflower.org
dulcimer player turned piper, I find the pipes the first instrument that I
can't let sit around for more than a couple of days without losing a lot of
playing ability. I can let the cello sit for weeks, and when I pick it up;
the intonation is a little off, the speed isn't quite there; but I can play.
Same for the piano.
You are at a considerable advantage having played the bassoon. As a
cellist, I am somewhat familiar with bassoon music. We often have similar
passages in orchestra. It's hard to make the comparison, but I do believe
there is as much to piping as there is to playing the bassoon, oboe, French
horn, or any other instrument which is reputed to be difficult. To play a
simple tune like "Twinkle, twinkle, little star" is not so bad, but to play
it in proper style with well-executed doublings, etc.--that's where the
difficulty is for me.
And that's why I love them so much!
Visualize whirled peas.
Dorothy May
David C Daye
<dor...@oz.sunflower.org> wrote:
In-Reply-To: <960326135...@oz.sunflower.org>
Organization: The Ohio State University
Cc:
Bcc:
In article <960326135...@oz.sunflower.org> you write:
>dulcimer player turned piper, I find the pipes the first instrument that I
>can't let sit around for more than a couple of days without losing a lot of
>playing ability.
This is almost certainly due to not having learned them as a child.
Myself, I can let the pipes go for weeks OK, as I often did during my
competition years due to hay fever in the autumn, but 3 days away from
the accordion and I'm toast. I started fingering pipe-like winds at 9,
keyboard at 36.
>it in proper style with well-executed doublings, etc.--that's where the
>difficulty is for me.
That's why I say the bagpipe is a fairly easy instrument, it's the contest
style that's the problem.
David Anderson
<Pine.HPP.3.91.960324...@river.it.gvsu.edu> -
Mindy Fulk <fu...@river.it.gvsu.edu>Sun, 24 Mar 1996 12:13:38
-0500 (EST) writes:
:>
:>risking tons of flames...
:>I heard something in a workshop a few months ago that I still
have not
:>figured out..
:>Where did the myth that bagpipes are THE hardest instrument to
play come
:>from, and why do people honestly believe it??
It's not that the pipes are uniquely difficult...just that
the difficulties are somewhat unique...
Physical exertion has a well-known effect in reducing
simultaneous
fine digital skills and mental concentration and I can't think of
any instrument
that combines pure physical exertion together with fingering
accuracy AND the
playing of a memorized tune, however simple...especially in the
learning stages,
as the Great Highland Bagpipe.
The same effect makes instrument tuning more difficult. Once
again,
I can think of no instrument that has to be played (or at least
constantly
sounding) while being as awkward to tune.
As for experience...I've played a variety of brass instruments
in
high school band...I used to fondly reminisce about my trombonist
days
while struggling with the GHB. But there's no instrument to
touch the pipes...
David Anderson
Calgary, Alberta.
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