Waxed vs Unwaxed Hemp
Bill Carr
yellow) hemp on the tuning pins and stock pins of my bagpipe. Now I'm
not so sure that this is the absolute best way to go. Here's is why:
On a new set of drones, wrapped with hard packed waxed yellow hemp with
a few turns of white teflon tape, I have had problems finding a reed
that would play stable and steady in the bass drone. I noticed that on
the bass mid section tuning chamber that, when sliding the piece up and
down on the pin, there was an ever so slightly loose spot right about
where the drone should tune. This was not loose enough to warrant any
concern on my part as it still held very well and needed a good turning
grip to move the section on the tuning pin. Still...I have labored with
many reeds that worked fine in other bass drones but were unsteady in
this particular drone.
Today......I have lots of spare time at the moment....I stripped off the
waxed hemp and replaced it with tightly wound unwaxed yellow hemp and a
few turns of teflon tape to finnish off. I did this only on a hunch that
there might be a connection. After re-hemping I could feel absolutely no
difference in the tightness of the pin on it's full length of travel up
the tuning chamber. The unwaxed pin has a slightly softer feel to it
To my amazement the drone has taken on a completely new character. It
now plays any of the reeds that I've previously had trouble with and
behaves like a good drone should. Stable, steady and easy to tune.
So what's going on here? I must stress that there is no fault in the
bore of the bass drone and that, had there been a fault such as out of
round then that would explain the behavior of the drone.
I conclude that the softer surface of the unwaxed hemp makes for an
absolute air tight fit but the hard surfaced waxed hemp allows some kind
of air leakage between the hemp surface and the wood of the tuning
chamber.
Or what?
Cheers
Bill Carr
Lloyd Bogart
As to the posibility of 'leakage', I doubt it, but
a touch of silicone grease over the teflon tape
would put that possibility to rest. (IF you still
have a waxed joint to test.)
I can think of 2 other maybe-bilities:
1) with the reed removed, if you sight down the bore,
is the bore straight and true * not matter how you
twist the upper 2 sections*? If, in a previous
assembly, the bore was mis-aligned (if those drone
sections aren't all perfectly concentric) then
the lack of same could affect the function. (I in-
spected a bass drone, once, that was so out of line
that in one configuration you couldn't see light
from the other end. It still played, of course.)
2) was there some scrap of teflon tape on the old joint
that might have become dislodged enough to interact with
the airstream (or wave-stream ;-) ?
Let's see what others have.
Lloyd
*****
In article <3BCC70EC...@frisurf.no>, Bill Carr <bill...@frisurf.no>
wrote:
Bpiper3981
like tape at all. He uses Black waxed hemp with a couple of turns of unwaxed
hemp to finish it off, he also take his pipes completly apart after playing, so
the hemp dries out. All the tape really does is act as a lubricant , and it
will seal in any moisture under the tape as well. But there was a couple of
open pipers there that loved the tape, so just like anything else, what ever
works for you is the best way to go.
Cheers
GaryS>>>>>>>>>
Curt
disagree with him or whoever subscribes to that method. That way of putting
together a pipe is really illogical. Unwaxed hemp to finish it off makes no
sense to me at all. I would love to hear the logic behind that. The whole
idea of this is to prevent moisture and swelling and to be able to have a
tight easy to tune drone. Using tape is the best way to keep moisture out
if you know what you are doing and it makes it easy to tune. Why do you
think people use wax? For moisture control. Now that plumbers tape is out
there this makes it easy and very long lasting. Much longer lasting than
any waxed hemp. I get years out of a proper set up and never have to take
my pipes apart because I have unwaxed hemp. Who would do all that?? I find
it hard to believe that people are doing all that for no reason when they
could simply use plumbers tape. The only negative to plumbers tape is that
it is an ugly white. I color mine black because I hate that white look.
Many top players are using plumbers tape on their tuning pins. It makes it
tight and easy to tune and is a logical way of doing this.
Enjoy,
Curt
"Bpiper3981" <bpipe...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011016160511...@mb-cp.aol.com...
D MacPherson
hemp. It is fake "ligament" sold by Dixie Gun Works for folks who are into
the reenactment business and they can't get real deer (or other) ligament
for their garments. It essentially creates a homogeneous wax wrap of
significant thickness. Wrap it and then "twist fit" the joint stock and it
creates its own custom fit (like the old ski boots). It is a firm fit, but
not too tight to move, take apart, etc.
Don MacPherson
"Lloyd Bogart" <bogar...@uwlax.edu> wrote in message
news:bogart.lloy-16...@138.49.112.221...
Mike Szarka
news:bogart.lloy-16...@138.49.112.221...
> Let's see what others have.
Some thoughts:
1) When the unwaxed hemp is in place for a while, it will compress and
tighten and probably behave essentially the same as the waxed hemp
2) The bores may be fine, but in ALL bagpipes the tuning chambers eventually
wear slightly unevenly from the friction. The lack of a feel of unevenness
may be due to the fact that the unwaxed hemp is still not fully compressed
and slightly elastic - which will go away in time. Your description of
looseness right about where the drone should tune is an almost certain
indicator that this is the case. When the unwaxed hemp compresses fully and
loses its elasticity, you'll be back where you were before.
3) Unwaxed hemp will absorb moisture and might tighten up on you suddenly on
a very wet day. I have heard of cracked drones/stocks resulting from this.
Suggestion: accurately measure the I.D. of the tuning chamber along its
entire length. It may need a small adjustment. You will love the stability
you will suddenly have after you fix this problem.
Mike
--
Mike Szarka
Celtic Flair Pipe Band
http://www.celticflair.com/
ceolmoore
I've found the same thing you have--that unwaxed hemp is best, not
only for the tuning tenons, but also for the stock tenons. Better
seal, much more airtight, and you don't get that tacky buildup on the
tuning chamber and stock walls from the wax (super sticky in
summertime, of course...).
However, you've got to keep as much moisture off the unwaxed hemp as
possible. Teflon tape may work well for a while, but I find that
teflon tape has a way of compacting the unwaxed hemp to the point,
eventually, where you may as well be using the waxed stuff. Teflon
tape can also tear or move with use, allowing moisture to seep into
the hemp underneath.
For my part, I grease the living daylights out of my hemp--I grease
almost every layer of the hemp as I wrap it on each tenon. No
petroleum products (Vaseline, etc.)!! You could use regular woodwind
cork grease, but that could get quite expensive, I think. I have to
admit, I use an extremely high-quality blend that I "brought with me"
from the classical double-reed world, and I don't know if it's still
available (I've got about a lifetime supply, I reckon). But others on
this NG probably have some good ideas about other greases/grease
blends.
Good luck, Thom Moore
Bill Carr <bill...@frisurf.no> wrote in message news:<3BCC70EC...@frisurf.no>...
Mike Szarka
ceolmoore <tmo...@humanapr.com> wrote in article
<3d8d031d.01101...@posting.google.com>...
> However, you've got to keep as much moisture off the unwaxed hemp as
> possible. Teflon tape may work well for a while, but I find that
> teflon tape has a way of compacting the unwaxed hemp to the point,
> eventually, where you may as well be using the waxed stuff. Teflon
> tape can also tear or move with use, allowing moisture to seep into
> the hemp underneath.
The main reasons I use T-tape on my tuning pins are that it has excellent
lubricating properties, leaves no residue, protects the hemp underneath,
and self-threads, making it easy to tune up and down. You want the hemp
reasonably tight underneath so that you only need a couple of winds of the
T-tape on top, because the stuff can bunch up over time. I've used both
waxed and unwaxed underneath the T-tape, no big difference.
In the stocks I tend to finish with unwaxed, because, as Tom says, you get
a good seal and no stickiness.
Mike
Scot Kortegaard
of the tuning pins, where I add one or two wraps of Teflon only. I prefer
the waxed hemp; once a joint is hemped properly, it makes a very nice seal,
and even looks good, with a smooth finish :) The waxed stuff doesn't seem to
swell as much either, which really helps at the chanter and blow pipe
joints.
Scot.
P.S. I find there's a few people out there that tend to "over-hemp". They
seem to think that the hemp has to be wrapped (in the case of the stock
joints) right up to the projecting mount, and right down to the reed seat. I
tell my students to keep it back, then you don't get that bunching, and hemp
hanging out all over the place.
"Mike Szarka" <mike....@utoronto.ca> wrote in message
news:01c15711$211a0b20$3d9e6480@Mike...
Curt
disagree with him or whoever subscribes to that method. That way of putting
together a pipe is really illogical. Unwaxed hemp to finish it off makes no
sense to me at all. I would love to hear the logic behind that. The whole
idea of this is to prevent moisture and swelling and to be able to have a
tight easy to tune drone. Using tape is the best way to keep moisture out
if you know what you are doing and it makes it easy to tune. Why do you
think people use wax? For moisture control. Now that plumbers tape is out
there this makes it easy and very long lasting. Much longer lasting than
any waxed hemp. I get years out of a proper set up and never have to take
my pipes apart because I have unwaxed hemp. Who would do all that?? I find
it hard to believe that people are doing all that for no reason when they
could simply use plumbers tape. The only negative to plumbers tape is that
it is an ugly white. I color mine black because I hate that white look.
Many top players are using plumbers tape on their tuning pins. It makes it
tight and easy to tune and is a logical way of doing this.
Enjoy,
Curt
"Bpiper3981" <bpipe...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011016160511...@mb-cp.aol.com...
MrRobotTow
>the waxed hemp; once a joint is hemped properly, it makes a very nice seal,
>and even looks good, with a smooth finish :)
That was my thinking too, that IF done right there is absolutely no way my
yellow waxed hemp could POSSIBLY let any air by whatsoever, it's smooth as a
moneys behind. No crummy teflon gook needed.
Bill
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized
that the Lord doesn't work that way, so I stole one and asked Him to forgive
me.
http://hometown.aol.com/mrrobottow/
Bpiper3981
Have you ever been to a piping school where world class pipers are the
instructors? I am sure there are plenty of readers who attended the Balmoral
School that would have disputed what I have said by now, that is people, who
sat in the same room I did durning the class.
You can always email him and ask him directly.
Cheers
GaryS>>>>>>>>>
Bill Carr
MrRobotTow wrote:
>
>
> That was my thinking too, that IF done right there is absolutely no way my
> yellow waxed hemp could POSSIBLY let any air by whatsoever, it's smooth as a
> moneys behind. No crummy teflon gook needed.
>
The waxed hemp surface might be smooth but what if the wood it's working against
isn't perfectly smooth or perhaps a few microns out of round? Theoretically it
could leak although I admit it to be very unlikely.
Bill Carr
Curt
Balmoral School and that is what he said at a pipe maintenance workshop? If
so, I am surprised another instructor didn't argue the point. The Balmoral
Schools that I have been to used plumbers tape on the pins. I haven't had
Jack as an instructor however. It just doesn't make sense to me and I would
have to question that method. Why spend all that time doing something that
isn't necessary? I would like to set up your pipe and have you try it for a
couple of months and then you tell me which way is better. I didn't use
plumbers tape at the beginning and now use it. I tune my pipes with easy
turns of the drone and it lasts for over a year. Never having to take my
pipes apart and never having to mess with it. People say the tape gets all
messed up. Maybe they have cracks in their drones and the tape is getting
caught on that.
I just don't get it,
Curt
"Bpiper3981" <bpipe...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011017132607...@mb-fy.aol.com...
MrRobotTow
>against
>isn't perfectly smooth or perhaps a few microns out of round? Theoretically
>it
>could leak although I admit it to be very unlikely.
Good point, but I think the tightness with which it's wound, and the amount of
wax between the wood and string are probably the important factors in how much
if any it leaks. So a sloppy, loose job certainly could leak.
Mike Szarka
Scot Kortegaard <korte...@home.com> wrote in article
<M1iz7.772$cV3....@news1.calgary.shaw.ca>...
The waxed stuff doesn't seem to
> swell as much either, which really helps at the chanter and blow pipe
> joints.
You just reminded me that I usually give a light coating of beeswax on the
last few windings on my chanter stock, just to make it a bit sticky.
There's an oft-repeated story about a certain P/M of a top-grade band whose
chanter popped out in the middle of a contest...
Mike Szarka
<3BCDBCBE...@frisurf.no>...
> The waxed hemp surface might be smooth but what if the wood it's working
against
> isn't perfectly smooth or perhaps a few microns out of round?
Theoretically it
> could leak although I admit it to be very unlikely.
It's not unlikely, it's inevitable with an older pipe due to greater wear
near the preferred tuning position.
Bpiper3981
Yes to your question Jack was an instructor and he gave a class on pipes. The
school was split on like's and dislike's of T-tape.
Geroge Balderos used a lot of T-tape and recomended it . Jack said he did not
like using T-tap so, there you have it. I have used T-tape in combination with
blk waxed hemp and the tape became a mess
But once again as with pipes what ever works for you is cool
Cheers
GaryS>>>>>>
Royce Lerwick
>Not sure I understand you in what you are saying. Was Jack Lee at a
>Balmoral School and that is what he said at a pipe maintenance workshop? If
>so, I am surprised another instructor didn't argue the point.
They don't do that. I was once at an in-house seminar with Jim
MacGillivray and Bob Mathieson. The grade 4 band was in one room and
the grade 3 band was in the other room, and then for a while we had
some group meeting but trust me, these two guys couldn't have been
much more different in their approaches to reeds and everything, and
there was, is and will never be any way you're going to hear two
big-name guys go to cat-fighting in the middle of a seminar.
You usually end up with one guy over here saying this, and another guy
over there saying that.
>The Balmoral
>Schools that I have been to used plumbers tape on the pins.
John MacLellan had this funny little ritual he did on joints and pins:
he'd wind them tightly with dry hemp, then roll it on a hard table
with a special flat stick he had to "pack it down." Then he'd fit it
loose and finish up with teflon tape. That was back in the very early
70's.
>I haven't had
>Jack as an instructor however. It just doesn't make sense to me and I would
>have to question that method. Why spend all that time doing something that
>isn't necessary?
Because a lot of really good GHB players rely on folk superstition as
a daily guy for behavior.
>I would like to set up your pipe and have you try it for a
>couple of months and then you tell me which way is better. I didn't use
>plumbers tape at the beginning and now use it. I tune my pipes with easy
>turns of the drone and it lasts for over a year. Never having to take my
>pipes apart and never having to mess with it. People say the tape gets all
>messed up. Maybe they have cracks in their drones and the tape is getting
>caught on that.
You haven't had it on long enough obviously. When it does, just peel
off the loose layers and strap on another few tightly.
Royce
http://royceworld.dyndns.org:9000/
Brian Boru Irish Pipe Band
Zetland Pipes, other stuff to see and hear.
Home of "Tekno Train" and "Groove Hills"
Royce Lerwick
Odds are you've only used black pre-waxed hemp, and that isn't
cobbler's wax. It's some fake cobbler's wax that is coated with
paraffin.
Curt
> off the loose layers and strap on another few tightly.
>
> Royce
Haven't had the tape on long enough? How about well over a year without
touching it?
Curt
Mike Szarka
Bpiper3981 <bpipe...@aol.com> wrote in article
<20011017184959...@mb-fz.aol.com>...
> Hello Curt
> Yes to your question Jack was an instructor and he gave a class on pipes.
The
> school was split on like's and dislike's of T-tape.
> Geroge Balderos used a lot of T-tape and recomended it . Jack said he did
not
> like using T-tap so, there you have it. I have used T-tape in combination
with
> blk waxed hemp and the tape became a mess
Agreed. My new pipes came from Roddy with black waxed hemp on all the
joints. If you just put T-tape over the black waxed hemp without a few
winds of regular hemp underneath, the T-tape tears into little bits in no
time.
Lloyd Bogart
<mike....@utoronto.ca> wrote:
> Agreed. My new pipes came from Roddy with black waxed hemp on all the
> joints. If you just put T-tape over the black waxed hemp without a few
> winds of regular hemp underneath, the T-tape tears into little bits in no
> time.
>
> Mike
On tuning slides I use Tape over compressed beeswaxed hemp,
but add just a touch of silicone grease over the tape. I'm not sure
anything can prevent the tape from shredding eventually, but this
reduces the problem for a while, and makes adjustment, er, slick?
On the blowpipe joint, I prefer that waxed woven nylon material
(probably not much different than artificial sinew, mentioned
earlier) which doesn't absorb moisture.
However, this thread started out with Bill's question about changes
in drone (& reed) performance when he changed the joint on his drone.
It still seems likely to me that some *other* characteristic of the
drone and /or reed must have been altered at the same time, unless
the original joint was somehow defective.
Any more thoughts, Bill?
Cheers
Lloyd
*****
Chris Hamilton
<mike....@utoronto.ca> wrote:
>Agreed. My new pipes came from Roddy with black waxed hemp on all the
>joints. If you just put T-tape over the black waxed hemp without a few
>winds of regular hemp underneath, the T-tape tears into little bits in no
>time.
I appreciate the hemp job Roddy does on the new pipes, but the black
waxed thread isn't my cup of tea personally.
For pipes I hemp myself, I put on a layer of the black thread to grip
the wood, then yellow pre-waxed hemp over that, finishing off with a
smidge of teflon tape.
Chris
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Christopher Hamilton -- ToneCzar Inc.
ch...@toneczar.com -- www.toneczar.com
me...@skyway.usask.ca
>On Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:41:30 GMT, "Mike Szarka"
><mike....@utoronto.ca> wrote:
>
>>Agreed. My new pipes came from Roddy with black waxed hemp on all the
>>joints. If you just put T-tape over the black waxed hemp without a few
>>winds of regular hemp underneath, the T-tape tears into little bits in no
>>time.
>
>I appreciate the hemp job Roddy does on the new pipes, but the black
>waxed thread isn't my cup of tea personally.
>
>For pipes I hemp myself, I put on a layer of the black thread to grip
>the wood, then yellow pre-waxed hemp over that, finishing off with a
>smidge of teflon tape.
>
>Chris
Re black waxed hemp - I have seen 2 varieties - one feels as if it
has resin (like cobbler's wax), the other slips like paraffin (sp?) -
i.e. candle wax;
Are there really 2 types, or am I imagining things ?
I wouldn't mind
using the paraffin for winding (although better to have a bit of resin
at the first), but I've seen the resin type used - very difficult to
remove the stock -- might as well use glue!
I usually cobbler's wax the first 2 feet of yellow hemp, and vasalene
every layer after; no teflon at the stocks because it tends to fall
apart when wet.
Chris
Chris Hamilton
> Re black waxed hemp - I have seen 2 varieties - one feels as if it
>has resin (like cobbler's wax), the other slips like paraffin (sp?) -
>i.e. candle wax; Are there really 2 types, or am I imagining things ?
Not sure. I get mine from "the usual channels". Seems to work well
enough. I doubt it's resined though. It certainly isn't hemp per se.
It's a fairly strong thread. Very useful!!! I don't miss rubbing the
old hemp through that wad of sticky wax one iota.
Curt
of it sitting here. Next time I will buy pre-waxed yellow hemp.
Enjoy,
Curt
PS. Congratulations on your year Chris. Your name is everywhere.
"Chris Hamilton" <tone...@bellatlantic.net> wrote in message
news:7fttst09rab9v8gs2...@4ax.com...
Chris Hamilton
>Same method I use, except I wax my yellow hemp myself because I have a spool
>of it sitting here. Next time I will buy pre-waxed yellow hemp.
>
>Enjoy,
>Curt
>
>PS. Congratulations on your year Chris. Your name is everywhere.
There's no such thing as bad publicity!
(well I hope not anyway!!!)
:-)
Royce Lerwick
Whoopidy do. It's a self-defining period. When it sheds, then you've
had it on long enough for it to shed. Before it sheds, you obviously
haven't had it on long enough. I've got Teflon on pipes that's 30
years old. That's more than long enough.
Royce Lerwick
> Re black waxed hemp - I have seen 2 varieties - one feels as if it
>has resin (like cobbler's wax), the other slips like paraffin (sp?) -
>i.e. candle wax;
>Are there really 2 types, or am I imagining things ?
>
>I wouldn't mind
>using the paraffin for winding (although better to have a bit of resin
>at the first), but I've seen the resin type used - very difficult to
>remove the stock -- might as well use glue!
>
> I usually cobbler's wax the first 2 feet of yellow hemp, and vasalene
>every layer after; no teflon at the stocks because it tends to fall
>apart when wet.
>
> Chris
http://royceworld.dyndns.org:9000/
Royce Lerwick
<tone...@bellatlantic.net> wrote:
>On 18 OCT 01 09:49:46 GMT, me...@skyway.usask.ca wrote:
>
>> Re black waxed hemp - I have seen 2 varieties - one feels as if it
>>has resin (like cobbler's wax), the other slips like paraffin (sp?) -
>>i.e. candle wax; Are there really 2 types, or am I imagining things ?
>
>Not sure. I get mine from "the usual channels". Seems to work well
>enough. I doubt it's resined though. It certainly isn't hemp per se.
>It's a fairly strong thread. Very useful!!! I don't miss rubbing the
>old hemp through that wad of sticky wax one iota.
If it comes off on your hands it's cobbler's wax. Or at least tar or
pitch. If it doesn't, it's coated with paraffin, and probably not even
cobblers wax underneath, just maybe some black nylon chord with
possibly beeswax, then coated with paraffin. The beeswax makes it
strong, the paraffin makes it slip, because it's really for sewing
leather and heavy canvas etc.
Royce
Royce Lerwick
Bogart) wrote:
>However, this thread started out with Bill's question about changes
>in drone (& reed) performance when he changed the joint on his drone.
>It still seems likely to me that some *other* characteristic of the
>drone and /or reed must have been altered at the same time, unless
>the original joint was somehow defective.
I think the point to be made, though not really conceptualized by Bill
either, is that the dry hemp underneath with teflon over it compresses
when you shove it into the bore, and remains elastic, maintaining
pressure over the surface of an irregular bore, which seals
constantly. The hard packed, glass-surfaced wax (any wax) on the other
hand, seals in some places, not in others, and the places where it
does not seal is the worn out place or shrunk/deformed belly of the
slide bore's barrel where it's wider. That makes it hard to tune and
unstable.
You should really have the bore trued up.
Curt
Curt
"Royce Lerwick" <pmle...@mn.mediaone.net> wrote in message
news:3bcf6edd...@news.mn.mediaone.net...
Ed Via
Chris Hamilton wrote:
> For pipes I hemp myself, I put on a layer of the black thread to grip
> the wood, then yellow pre-waxed hemp over that, finishing off with a
> smidge of teflon tape.
>
> Chris
This is my routine also. I stop adding the yellow pre-waxed stuff when
it's still fairly short of being a tight fit, and then apply a couple of
turns of teflon tape and compact that down with a "twisting on" motion
using my index finger and thumb. I lay and twist the teflon tape onto
the tuning pin in the direction of downward travel of the drone top, and
I twist the tape to the point that it is well compressed and the
"threads" show through it. Finally, I start the drone top/section and
turn it down onto the pin, and turn it back up, repeating and adding
teflon tape as necessary until I have a joint that behaves as if the
tuning pin were actually threaded. If you are careful to wrap and twist
the teflon on tightly, you wind up with a great joint in which the tape
doesn't shred/tear at all.
Ed
Mike Szarka
Royce Lerwick <pmle...@mn.mediaone.net> wrote in article
<3bcf70ad...@news.mn.mediaone.net>...
> I think the point to be made, though not really conceptualized by Bill
> either, is that the dry hemp underneath with teflon over it compresses
> when you shove it into the bore, and remains elastic, maintaining
> pressure over the surface of an irregular bore, which seals
> constantly. The hard packed, glass-surfaced wax (any wax) on the other
> hand, seals in some places, not in others, and the places where it
> does not seal is the worn out place or shrunk/deformed belly of the
> slide bore's barrel where it's wider. That makes it hard to tune and
> unstable.
Ah, the incredible validation I feel from having my original post in this
thread confirmed by Royce... ;-)
MrRobotTow
>it's still fairly short of being a tight fit, and then apply a couple of
>turns of teflon tape and compact that down with a "twisting on" motion
>using my index finger and thumb. I lay and twist the teflon tape onto
>the tuning pin in the direction of downward travel of the drone top, and
>I twist the tape to the point that it is well compressed and the
>"threads" show through it. Finally, I start the drone top/section and
>turn it down onto the pin, and turn it back up, repeating and adding
>teflon tape as necessary until I have a joint that behaves as if the
>tuning pin were actually threaded. If you are careful to wrap and twist
>the teflon on tightly, you wind up with a great joint in which the tape
>doesn't shred/tear at all.
>
>Ed
I never had any luck getting teflon tape to stick to waxed yellow hemp. Tried
stretching it on tightly, loosely, medium, everything but glueing it on, but in
spite of seldom having to move the drones much, it always came apart and made a
stringy mess. Could different brands, or thickness'es of teflon tape be a
factor?
MrRobotTow
(or stretched teflon tape) so it's possible that's why it doesn't stick.
Ed Via
MrRobotTow wrote:
> I never had any luck getting teflon tape to stick to waxed yellow hemp. Tried
> stretching it on tightly, loosely, medium, everything but glueing it on, but in
> spite of seldom having to move the drones much, it always came apart and made a
> stringy mess. Could different brands, or thickness'es of teflon tape be a
> factor?
I didn't have much luck with teflon tape either until I went to the
practice of laying on several turns and compressing the tape down by the
twisting/compressing method I described. It also seems to be very
important to slowly screw the drone top down onto the pin (not forcing
it down), allowing it to "set" the tape into the hemp threads beneath
it. If this is done carefully, the tape will meld into the hemp and
provide an excellent, free-turning, thread-like surface that won't tear
or shred away. The trick seems to lie in leaving enough room after
applying the waxed hemp that you can add a couple of layers of teflon.
If the initial application of teflon is too thin, it will tear away. I'm
not aware of varying brands or thicknesses of the tape. I've only ever
found one type, and it's pretty thin stuff, especially when stretched a
bit.
Ed
MrRobotTow
>practice of laying on several turns and compressing the tape down by the
>twisting/compressing method I described. It also seems to be very
>important to slowly screw the drone top down onto the pin (not forcing
>it down), allowing it to "set" the tape into the hemp threads beneath
>it. If this is done carefully, the tape will meld into the hemp and
>provide an excellent, free-turning, thread-like surface that won't tear
>or shred away. The trick seems to lie in leaving enough room after
>applying the waxed hemp that you can add a couple of layers of teflon.
>If the initial application of teflon is too thin, it will tear away. I'm
>not aware of varying brands or thicknesses of the tape. I've only ever
>found one type, and it's pretty thin stuff, especially when stretched a
>bit.
Thanks, I think I'll give that a try sometime when I feel like fiddling around,
If it doesn't work for whatever reason, it's a mess to clean up though.
I have seen several widths of TT, and several price differences in seeminly
identical tapes, so I think a trip to the hardware store with my micrometer is
in order.
Mike Szarka
MrRobotTow <mrrob...@aol.com> wrote in article
<20011019132214...@mb-mq.aol.com>...
>
> I never had any luck getting teflon tape to stick to waxed yellow hemp.
Tried
> stretching it on tightly, loosely, medium, everything but glueing it on,
but in
> spite of seldom having to move the drones much, it always came apart and
made a
> stringy mess. Could different brands, or thickness'es of teflon tape be a
> factor?
I don't know for sure, but T-tape is a fluorocarbon, and has low adhesion
to almost anything. Certainly it makes sense to me that it could slide
overtop of waxed hemp more easily than unwaxed. I can't see the specifics
of the tape making much difference.
Mike
Ed Via
Mike Szarka wrote:
> I don't know for sure, but T-tape is a fluorocarbon, and has low adhesion
> to almost anything. Certainly it makes sense to me that it could slide
> overtop of waxed hemp more easily than unwaxed. I can't see the specifics
> of the tape making much difference.
There's certainly a bit of an art to getting it on right, and I did my
share of re-hemping and taping before I finally found a way of applying
it that works for me. I took my inspiration from Jim McGillivray, who
once described on here the "threaded tuning pin" effect you get when
it's been put on properly. And he was absolutely right (imagine that!) -
when you get it on just right your drone top will move up or down by
lightly turning it one way or the other, allowing for really fine
control.
Ed
Chris Thomas
gas pipes. I think it's a bit thicker, and it's a bit closer to the yellow hemp (not
much though). Still I think it looks better than the white stuff.
Regards, Chris.
Mike Szarka
Ed Via <r...@lib.muohio.edu> wrote in article
<3BD07B0D...@lib.muohio.edu>...
Yes, you're absolutely right. There is a bit of an art to putting the tape
on tightly, and not forcing the drone top onto the pin, but letting it
thread naturally so you get the tuning effect you refer to. It works
really well this way.
Jim McGillivray
> > There's certainly a bit of an art to getting it on right, and I did my
> > share of re-hemping and taping before I finally found a way of applying
> > it that works for me. I took my inspiration from Jim McGillivray, who
> > once described on here the "threaded tuning pin" effect you get when
> > it's been put on properly. And he was absolutely right (imagine that!) -
> > when you get it on just right your drone top will move up or down by
> > lightly turning it one way or the other, allowing for really fine
> > control.
I'm sorry, but I haven't been following this thread much. Suffice to say I
have used teflon tape for well over 20 years and have not even the slightest
inclination to try anything different. It provides a smooth, easy slide for
the drone tops, and seals out all moisture (my pipes came wrapped in plain
hemp 10 years ago and I've never had need to change it). If that's not
enough benefit, its self-threading properties close the deal for me. This is
a particularly valuable trait if you tune two or three drones at a time and
want them all to move approximately the same amount quickly and easily
before you fine them down. I don't think it looks quite as good as black
waxed hemp, but it certainly looks just as good as or better than yellow
hemp. I have found the yellow teflon to be too thick to be useful or to
make fine adjustments.
By the way, you'll see a detailed demonstration of the use of teflon on
"Pipes Up", my just released tuning video, as well as lots of other niggling
little maintenance issues that can affect tuning. Check out my website for
more information on the video.
Cheers,
Jim McGillivray
MCGILLIVRAY PIPING PARTNERSHIPS
~ Select Bagpipes & Accessories ~
www.piping.on.ca
905-726-4003
pip...@aci.on.ca
MrRobotTow
>tape for
>gas pipes. I think it's a bit thicker,>
I thought so! Some seems so flimsy, and other thicker and stronger. I'll hit
Rockys tomorrow with a micrometer to see!
Sean B
I find it best to use black waxed hemp to do all of my joints. At the
point that just a few more turns of hemp is needed I use unwaxed yellow
hemp.
Number one, it compresses easier then waxed hemp. Using it on the last
few turns prevents the hemp from being pushed to the mount when
inserting it into the stock (causing that little gap at the mount on
stocks).
Number two, a few turns of unwaxed yellow on top of waxed black makes it
very easy to identify where you can remove hemp should the joint get too
tight.
I ALWAYS use the unwaxed yellow when needing to add hemp.
The only time I use teflon tape is to seal the threaded joints of the
intercooler tubes on my car! I think people just love to find a reason
to play with the stuff. It's really nothing more than a nuisance on the
bagpipe.
Sean Buchta
Royce Lerwick
Sound more like fake beexwax to me. Good, genuine beeswax will
actually stick to teflon tape very well. The fake stuff with the
parrafin in it won't.
Royce Lerwick
Well it happens. In this case I seem to be the only one who understood
exactly what you were getting at.
Royce Lerwick
wrote:
>The only time I use teflon tape is to seal the threaded joints of the
>intercooler tubes on my car! I think people just love to find a reason
>to play with the stuff. It's really nothing more than a nuisance on the
>bagpipe.
Now, Captain Ludd, let's go smash the machinery!
Chris Eyre
I have come across two distinct thicknesses for teflon tape (PTFE as we call
it in the UK).
I have used it for about 20 years and it is super stuff if you use it right.
It provides an excellent seal against moisture and so makes the whole joint
much more stable and long-lasting.
It is most reluctant to stick to anything so it is perfect for a sliding
joint. It means that any joint finished off with teflon can never lock up
solid. But it also means that if you have several layers of teflon on top of
each other they will tend to slide about because they cannot adhere well to
each other. I use it on all my tuning slides (two or three layers only). I
also use on the stock joints as well but only as a final winding of one or
two layers,
just enough to provide that extra moisture barrier I want and to prevent the
joints from ever locking up.
It has just enough "stickiness" about it to produce this screw thread effect
that Jim McGillivray has just mentioned. I think this is one of the most
interesting aspects of teflon. I'm not a scientist so I don't know why or
how it works. I just know it does.
Chris Eyre
Chris Thomas <GMG...@Wilmorite.com> wrote in message
news:3BD0B983...@Wilmorite.com...
MrRobotTow
>actually stick to teflon tape very well. The fake stuff with the
>parrafin in it won't.
I got mine from a local orchard where we buy our honey and apples. Nothing in
it but beeswax, and bee turds.
MrRobotTow
>bagpipe.
I can relate to that! A completey unnecsasary addition, that produces no
benefits I can find.
Royce Lerwick
<lsr...@ceyre.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
>It has just enough "stickiness" about it to produce this screw thread effect
>that Jim McGillivray has just mentioned. I think this is one of the most
>interesting aspects of teflon. I'm not a scientist so I don't know why or
>how it works. I just know it does.
All my waxed hemp, and I mean properly waxed hemp slides did the same
sort of thing.
Royce Lerwick
>> It's really nothing more than a nuisance on the
>>bagpipe.
>
>I can relate to that! A completey unnecsasary addition, that produces no
>benefits I can find.
Well Bill, you're the expert. Guess I'll take mine off. Better give
Jim a call too.
MrRobotTow
>Jim a call too.
Yes, that's my advice Royce.
(I meant to type that it produces no benefit to me with my setup.)