Madonna does Rumi
Ala
I thought I share with you an interesting email I got.
_______________________________________________________________
Last night while I was driving back from work, I heard an
interview with Madonna on the radio. It was about one of her
songs ("Frozen") from her new album. Not being a Madonna fan
at all, I reached to change the radio channel. Then I heard the
interviewer asking Madonna about the strong message in "Frozen".
I got curious. She said her song is based on a poem by Rumi. She
continued by explaining who Rumi is, and the actual poem is about
the love of God. But she never mentioned that Rumi is a Persian
Sufi poet, whose poetry is all in Farsi. It is amazing that Molavi's
poems could even affect Madonna. To listen to her song, go to...
Ramin Zamani
This is very strange and ironic. I've never listened to Madonna much in
the past either, (I think she has neither vocal technichs nor a very
desirable tone), but I was passing by a CD store a few weeks ago when I
heard frozen and liked it enough to buy the CD for that single song.
I've been listening to it carefully and mainly analyzing the rhythm
section, (beautifully done by the way) for the past few days and now I
find out about the origin of the lyrics.
Madonna...Rumi... Madonna... it just doesn't make sense, but then again
what does?
Ramin
Franklin D. Lewis
Ramin:
Does that mean that there is nothing on the liner notes attributing
the lyrics of Rumi? She talks about the words being from Rumi in an
interview, but doesn't credit the source on the album?
I was thinking about buying the CD just to find out from the
liner notes what Rumi version this is. Whose translation
did she take it from, or was it inspired by the awful "Rumi" poems of
Deepak Chopra that she heard a few months ago when she attended a fashion
show which used the lyrics as background for the models' sauntering? I've
heard the song too, and rather like it (though I've never liked any
previous Madonna song), but don't recognize it as characteristic of
Rumi. It sounds like, well, a modern pop song.
--Frank Lewis
Ramin Zamani
Franklin D. Lewis wrote:
>
> Ramin:
> Does that mean that there is nothing on the liner notes attributing
> the lyrics of Rumi? She talks about the words being from Rumi in an
> interview, but doesn't credit the source on the album?
She doesn't mention the poem being taken from a Rumi's poems at all.
Well , now we can see how easy it is to steal other's ideas and call it
our own. I wonder if some one could sue her for that! just kidding.
Ramin
yadoll...@yahoo.com
Let me tell you people, this is bad. Its a shame when you even mention the
name of a great poet such as Rumi and that pop singer in the same sentence.
Give me a break, I listened to this song and think it sucks. Come on, what is
that "you'll be frozen if you don't open your heart" crap.... Is this all we
have to talk about on this group?
get reqal people!
Ya mAshalAh,
Yadollah.
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Ramin Zamani
yadoll...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> Let me tell you people, this is bad. Its a shame when you even mention the
> name of a great poet such as Rumi and that pop singer in the same sentence.
> Give me a break, I listened to this song and think it sucks. Come on, what is
> that "you'll be frozen if you don't open your heart" crap.... Is this all we
> have to talk about on this group?
>
> get reqal people!
>
> Ya mAshalAh,
> Yadollah.
Mr Yadollah,
OK, let's get real then. Since we're not talking much, what else do YOU
suggest we should talk about? How about noon e sangak? I like Barbari
better, how about you Yadollah? Or... how about this... I think Lotfi,
Shagarian and all *living* Iranian musicians just suck, common ... death
to all living musicians all together, what do you think? Did any one
draw a conclusion or at least learn some thing from that last discussion
that Mr. Yadollah was participating in, when was it six months ago?
Should I go on?
I really don't want to do this to you, but why can we not let others
think and decide for themselves? Tell me, how else would YOU define
fanaticism?
In a day and age when Pavarotti and Brian Adams can share the same
stage, and London Philharmonic and Elton John seem to get along and have
fun with one another, I don't understand why Madonna can not be inspired
by Rumi. Madonna's got a much much bigger name than you will ever have
sir, (at least she's DONE some thing that most people have heard, unlike
some of us who will waste an entire life TALKING) and if YOU can read or
talk about Rumi I don't see why she can not be inspired by him and why I
should not be able to talk about it on this news group.
In my original post I indicated that I neither liked Madonna's tone of
voice nor her music, and my main interest in the song was in studying
the rhythm section, not even the lyrics of that particular song. So I'm
not trying to defend or protect Madonna as I could care less. It just
make me so sad to see how fanatical some of us can get.
Happy listening folks!
Ramin
Franklin D. Lewis
Okay, if Madonna doing Rumi is blasphemous (and I can agree with
you on this, though I think "Frozen" is not a bad pop song, though it
does not sound much like Rumi's poetry), what do you think about Giti's
*Mowlanaa*, which I rather liked. I think her rendition of the ghazal
(which I don't think is included in Foruzanfar's edition of the Divan-e
Shams, incidentally)
har lahze be shekl-i bot-e ayyaar bar aamad
har dam be lebaas-i degar aan yaar bar aamad
was absolutely beautiful as a pop song and as a rendition of the poem.
Not quite so sure about Amir Araam's version of *morde bodam zende shodam
gerye bodam khande shodam* but if it introduces a generation of Iranian
youth growing up in California to Rumi who might otherwise not have heard
him, can it really be so disrespectful?
For that matter, what do you think of the Mevlevi ensemble in
Turkey, the direct descendants of the mystical praxis founded by
Mowlavi Jalal al-Din Rumi? Kani Karaca is a great Koran reciter, but the
music that the Mevlevis perform there ceremony to, and especially the way
they garble Persian with their Turkish accents grates on my ears, but one
could hardly deny the Whirling Dervishes the right to sing Rumi's ghazals.
What about Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan, the late lamented Pakistan Qavvaali
singer, who sings one ghazal attributed to Rumi (again, not included in
the Foruzanfar edition). Have you heard the Afghan singer Naashenaas'
rendition of a poem from the Divan-e Shams?
How about Marzieh? Banaan? Khatere Parvane? I don't think any
of them did as decent a job with Rumi as did Giti.
Turaj Zaahedi? Parisaa, who has lost
her vocal control (due no doubt in part to age and in part to the ban on
female performance in Iran) and simply shouts now when she wants to sing
with volume? Should they be allowed to sing Rumi?
So who should be allowed to sing Rumi? Who in this generation
meets your standards? I'm honestly interested in your opinion on
traditional performers...
For the Masnavi, what about Mahmud Karimi (who performs the nay name
accompanied by Mohammad Mousavi in an Ocora recording)? Hossein Omumi
(who certainly, in my estimation, deserves the right to play nay for the
Masnavi)? For the ghazals, Shahram Nazeri (also lacking in vocal control
at high volume), Shajarian?
Who should be allowed to play tar in accompaniment to a Rumi poem? If
not Lotfi, what about Daaryush Pirniaakaan? What about Jalaal Zu al-Fonun
on setar?
--Frank Lewis
On Tue, 2 Jun 1998 yadoll...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Let me tell you people, this is bad. Its a shame when you even mention the
> name of a great poet such as Rumi and that pop singer in the same sentence.
> Give me a break, I listened to this song and think it sucks. Come on, what is
> that "you'll be frozen if you don't open your heart" crap.... Is this all we
> have to talk about on this group?
>
> get reqal people!
>
>
> Ya mAshalAh,
> Yadollah.
>
>
> >
Alex Leons
Mr. Lewis,
I have not heard any of Giti`s version of "Mowlanaa", but I have
listened to most of your other references including the late Ahmad Zahir
of Afghanistan(Although, pop style). Could you please talk some more
about giti`s music and its attribtion to Mowlanaa.
Sincerely,
Alex
yadoll...@yahoo.com
In article <35750...@istar.ca>,
soni...@istar.ca wrote:
>
> yadoll...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> > Let me tell you people, this is bad. Its a shame when you even mention
the
> > name of a great poet such as Rumi and that pop singer in the same
sentence.
> > Give me a break, I listened to this song and think it sucks. Come on,
what is
> > that "you'll be frozen if you don't open your heart" crap.... Is this all
we
> > have to talk about on this group?
> >
> > get reqal people!
> >
> > Ya mAshalAh,
> > Yadollah.
>
>
> OK, let's get real then. Since we're not talking much, what else do YOU
> suggest we should talk about? How about noon e sangak? I like Barbari
> better, how about you Yadollah?
Well let me tell you, I liked Barbari, however they don't make them as
"bereshteh" as they used to, so I must side with Sangak specially the new
weat kind!
>Or... how about this... I think Lotfi,
> Shagarian and all *living* Iranian musicians just suck, common ... death
> to all living musicians all together, what do you think?
Look, fanaticisim is not a bad thing as long as it is on something worth
while. I am not running for a popularity contest here, as I said before I am
direct in telling it as I see it. And I don't hide behind the so called
"pilitically correct" statements.
> Did any one
> draw a conclusion or at least learn some thing from that last discussion
> that Mr. Yadollah was participating in, when was it six months ago?
> Should I go on?
As a matter of fact there were some conclusions and some did learn a thing or
two, including myself.
>
> I really don't want to do this to you, but why can we not let others
> think and decide for themselves?
Nobody is stoping anyone to think for themselves, but if you decide to
express it on a public forum you should expect discussions and a dialogue on
your thoughts.
>Tell me, how else would YOU define
> fanaticism?
> In a day and age when Pavarotti and Brian Adams can share the same
> stage, and London Philharmonic and Elton John seem to get along and have
> fun with one another,
Excuse me, there is only one reason that they do such a thing, and that is
motivated by something which is green and can be spent!!
>I don't understand why Madonna can not be inspired
> by Rumi.
Because Madona did not, does not, and will not have the mentality, back
ground, and preception to even begin to understand Rumi. Get real man, this
is her latest thing to sell albums! And you and I talking about it is giving
her free publicity!!
> Madonna's got a much much bigger name than you will ever have
> sir, (at least she's DONE some thing that most people have heard, unlike
> some of us who will waste an entire life TALKING)
Please! I don't want to "have a name" And if having a -big name- is so
important to you, maybe you shouldn't be talking about Rumi eigther.
> and if YOU can read or
> talk about Rumi I don't see why she can not be inspired by him and why I
> should not be able to talk about it on this news group.
>
> In my original post I indicated that I neither liked Madonna's tone of
> voice nor her music, and my main interest in the song was in studying
> the rhythm section,
No need to study it, the "rythm section" is the 34th selection on a K-mart
casio keyboard.
> not even the lyrics of that particular song. So I'm
> not trying to defend or protect Madonna as I could care less. It just
> make me so sad to see how fanatical some of us can get.
Again, fanaticisim is anot a bad thing! Let me tell you, why if we are to
use energy and time on a discussion why waist it on a plastic pop culture
such as Madona? In a day and age where everything is a front, lets talk about
something worth while.......You could always watch TV for your entertainments!
>
> Happy listening folks!
>
> Ramin
>
yA mAshAllAh
Yadollah.
Babak Mohit
>
> Because Madona did not, does not, and will not have the mentality, back
> ground, and preception to even begin to understand Rumi. Get real man, this
> is her latest thing to sell albums! And you and I talking about it is giving
> her free publicity!!
>
Although I might agree with U, but tell me, how do U know? Have U
spoken with her??? If yes, say hi for me a tell her I wonder if she can
make good "Ghormeh Sabzi" ;)
Regrds, Babak.
_ __ 2 |
/ |_|_ |__| \ |_/
\ |___| | | / * | \
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Babak Mohit |
| |
| Department of Neuroscience |
| |
| University of Pittsburgh |
| Pittsburgh, PA |
| |
| bams...@pitt.edu |
| |
| \\|// |
| (o o) |
~~~~~~~~~oOOo~(_)~oOOo~~~~~~~~~
____
| , ( |
|_ ____() % | |
_(_)___]___) [___/^\__] |_]
** * *
Franklin D. Lewis
I don't think we differ on much, but I think the statement equating pop
singers with shallowness is very unfair. I've always found Madonna very
shallow, but Dylan, Paul Simon, Lennon, McCartney and a whole host of
others were thinking musicians and performaers and I would never describe
them as shallow.
Also, I do not believe that spending a great deal of time on something
automatically qualifies you to do it. If I spent my whole life practising
setar I'm sure I'd never make it professionally. There is such a thing as
talent and then there is also insight--following an artistic tradition
down a productive path. In cases of people who are either very talented,
or have great insight, or both, it is possible that a relative child can
go in one night rah-e sad saale
So what about Banaan. What is masterpiece performance of Rumi in your
opinion? I'd like to hear in it what you have heard in it, though I must
tell you it will be an uphill battle, as Banaan usually does not send me.
Frank
> name- such as Madona. In fact the very nature of a pop star is to be shallow
> because the masses demand it.
>
yadoll...@yahoo.com
In article <Pine.GSO.3.96.98060...@larry.cc.emory.edu>,
"Franklin D. Lewis" <fle...@emory.edu> wrote:
>
> Okay, if Madonna doing Rumi is blasphemous (and I can agree with
> you on this, though I think "Frozen" is not a bad pop song, though it
> does not sound much like Rumi's poetry), what do you think about Giti's
> *Mowlanaa*, which I rather liked. I think her rendition of the ghazal
> (which I don't think is included in Foruzanfar's edition of the Divan-e
> Shams, incidentally)
> har lahze be shekl-i bot-e ayyaar bar aamad
> har dam be lebaas-i degar aan yaar bar aamad
> was absolutely beautiful as a pop song and as a rendition of the poem.
> Not quite so sure about Amir Araam's version of *morde bodam zende shodam
> gerye bodam khande shodam* but if it introduces a generation of Iranian
> youth growing up in California to Rumi who might otherwise not have heard
> him, can it really be so disrespectful?
Well, not realy! Except the problem is that the very nature of "pop" is to be
on surface, and it is good that some young person, in Ca. or else where,
hears it and might get inspired. This is fine, but I believe the people who
are going to be inspired by such works WILL be without the help of a -big
name- such as Madona. In fact the very nature of a pop star is to be shallow
because the masses demand it.
> For that matter, what do you think of the Mevlevi ensemble in
> Turkey, the direct descendants of the mystical praxis founded by
> Mowlavi Jalal al-Din Rumi? Kani Karaca is a great Koran reciter, but the
> music that the Mevlevis perform there ceremony to, and especially the way
> they garble Persian with their Turkish accents grates on my ears, but one
> could hardly deny the Whirling Dervishes the right to sing Rumi's ghazals.
> What about Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan, the late lamented Pakistan Qavvaali
> singer, who sings one ghazal attributed to Rumi (again, not included in
> the Foruzanfar edition). Have you heard the Afghan singer Naashenaas'
> rendition of a poem from the Divan-e Shams?
Look, you cannot travel a thousand night's jurney in one night! The people
you mentioned above have all devoted their lives to their crafts and have
earned the understanding to be concidered. Please give me a break and NOT
bring Madona into this group! No one is denying anyones's rights here, simply
ignore the ignorance!
> How about Marzieh? Banaan? Khatere Parvane? I don't think any
> of them did as decent a job with Rumi as did Giti.
I beg to differ, specially with regards to banaan.
> Turaj Zaahedi? Parisaa, who has lost
> her vocal control (due no doubt in part to age and in part to the ban on
> female performance in Iran) and simply shouts now when she wants to sing
> with volume? Should they be allowed to sing Rumi?
Look, who is talking about singing Rumi? That crap from Madona was not
Rumi...You study Rumi and Hafiz, And you do it for a life time. You do it
silently. This nonesense about her being inspired by Rumi and why didn't she
give credit to him is a bunch of BS. A great poet as such does not need
credit, specially from a stupid singer like her!
> So who should be allowed to sing Rumi? Who in this generation
> meets your standards? I'm honestly interested in your opinion on
> traditional performers...
Let me tell you, I am not qualifying anyone to read or sing from a great
poet, but if they are to be taken seriously, they must deserve it.
Also who said that ONLY a singer is inspired by a poet? Many of the names you
mentioned are certenly inspired as well as -living- musicians and artists
such as Zolfonoun, Jallil ShahnAz, KasAie, Kia Rostami, BehzAd, va, va, va...
> For the Masnavi, what about Mahmud Karimi (who performs the nay name
> accompanied by Mohammad Mousavi in an Ocora recording)? Hossein Omumi
> (who certainly, in my estimation, deserves the right to play nay for the
> Masnavi)? For the ghazals, Shahram Nazeri (also lacking in vocal control
> at high volume), Shajarian?
> Who should be allowed to play tar in accompaniment to a Rumi poem? If
> not Lotfi, what about Daaryush Pirniaakaan? What about Jalaal Zu al-Fonun
> on setar?
> --Frank Lewis
>
yA mashallAh
YadollAh.
Ramin Zamani
yadoll...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > In my original post I indicated that I neither liked Madonna's tone of
> > voice nor her music, and my main interest in the song was in studying
> > the rhythm section,
>
> No need to study it, the "rythm section" is the 34th selection on a K-mart
> casio keyboard.
I bet you've heard "If every one could be a poet, butchers would begin
to sell poetry" before, have you not?
There's yet another one that should always ring in one's head before
s/he makes such stupid comments as the one we'e seen on this reply,
"AAnkas ke nadAAnad va nadAAnad ke nadAAnad, dar jahle morakab abado
dahr bemAAnad". with an apology to all who don't understand Persian.
BTW, it's really annoying to read through all those spelling errors, see
rhythm. Why don't you ask some one to go over your paragraph before you
hit send. I'm particularly fussy when it comes to music related topics.
Ramin
Franklin D. Lewis
Giti, a pop-singer whose songs were usually somewhat more reflective and
psychologically oriented than your average Persian pop song, did an album
called Mowlanaa in the mid-70s. In fact, it may have been related to the
700th anniversary of his death in 1973, but I don't know when the original
cassette was released.
The tape is available from Caltex Records (C338), so you can listen for
yourself.
==Frank