RMI homophobia isn't funny!
Kevin Michael Archibald
criticize these remarks. All I got to say is please think before you post
or follow up to said remarks. Thanks.
Kevin (k...@netcom.com)
spi...@vxdesy.desy.de
In article <2rpmg4$p...@nntp2.Stanford.EDU>, k...@leland.Stanford.EDU (Kevin Michael Archibald) writes:
> Homophobic remarks have been popping up on RMI again. I haven't seen anyone
> criticize these remarks.
I don't read the total news group but you can be sure that I will criticize
homophobic remarks whereever I see them. My conviction is that heterosexual
and homosexual people should stand together against discrimination.
I think that discrimination of people can never be funny if it is discrimimi-
nation because of their sexual orientation (I hope this is the right word),
because the colour of their skin or because being foreigner or because being
women or whatever.
* "Except no limitation - KMFDM, one world, one nation"(Light) *
Bye,
Ansgar
Beast of Eden
>Homophobic remarks have been popping up on RMI again.
Who are you, rmi PC patrol? :-/
>I haven't seen anyone criticize these remarks.
Why don't you? I mean specifically; I haven't even seen these remarks and I
think when bring up something like this, you owe it to everybody to point
out specifically what you're talking about.
I hope its not that stupid Buttfuck Parlor Time thing that's upsetting
you; that's merely an old joke that refuses to die and the less attention
it gets, the better. (Perhaps this is why you're being unspecific.)
>All I got to say is please think before you post or follow up to said
>remarks. Thanks.
Let your conscience be your guide.
Beast of Eden
erik
: I hope its not that stupid Buttfuck Parlor Time thing that's upsetting
: it gets, the better. (Perhaps this is why you're being unspecific.)
Although I cannot speak for Kevin, I believe that he is bothered by the
Buttfuck Parlor Time thing as I am myself. Yes, I agree that it is
stupid but that does not make it any less harmful or degrading to the
homosexual segment of our society.
Threads like BFPT that treat homophobia like a casual, normal, and
acceptable behavior are a menace to society. It is very disappointing to
see regular rmi posters contributing to this disease called homophobia.
I would hope that more people will stand up and defend the
underrepresented in this newsgroup and not merely disregard BFPT but fight
against it.
Homophobia like racism will not just crawl into a hole and disappear like
some wish it would. Hatred and ignorance is bred and nurtured through
socialization. These problems can only be stopped if this cycle of
socialization is brought to an end bit by bit.
If people do not confront these actions of discrimination when they
appear then those who are doing the discriminating may not realize
the effects of their statements. This battle against homophobia and all
other forms of discrimination is not an easy one by far but it is
neccessary if we are to protect the right to live our lives as we see fit.
Because of this I feel that is important to stand up and say that
BFPT is wrong to be on rmi, and is a disgrace to the newsgroup as a whole.
I would hope that others on rmi will take notice of this blatant
discriminatory action and speak out against it.
Just my opinion, but one I will stand behind until this disease has died.
----------------------------------------
Pleasant Nightmares and Warped Dreams...
e r i k ephi...@ucdavis.edu
----------------------------------------
D.A.C. Crowell
>
>Although I cannot speak for Kevin, I believe that he is bothered by the
>Buttfuck Parlor Time thing as I am myself. Yes, I agree that it is
>stupid but that does not make it any less harmful or degrading to the
>homosexual segment of our society.
Hooo...boooey! Okay, bunkie, lemme clue you in on a couple things...
First of all, I'm one of the Prime Instigators of the BFPT thang.
I'm also _gay_...in fact, I've been married to another gay male since 1990
in one of the best working gay marriages I know of. If BFPT had anything
to do with homophobia, gaybashing, or any other such nonsense, I'd have
avoided it.
Secondly BFPT has virtually nothing to do with anti-homosexual
sentiments...but _everything_ to do with anti-Trent Reznor sentiments.
It all got started over an offhand comment over a _year_ ago by one
Caroliner Rainbow about Trent and his new "Buttfuck Parlour Time" CD,
a backhand slap at the overhyping of "Fixed" that TVT and NIN were
engaging in at the time. The joke refuses to die primarily due to Trent's
oh-so-goth posturing and other crap...and also primarily because it _is_
fun to poke at the whiner and his pretentious non-industrial (depending
on the day of the week and wind direction) dance-pop.
Third, this is rec.music.industrial...a notoriously abrasive
and roughnecked dive-bar sort of place on the Information Dragstrip. Most
PC-oid whooping is pretty pointless around these parts, and is more
likely to draw the ire toward that which you're being PC about, rather
than help the situation. Why not lighten up and quit being so dour over
what really _is_ some fun at Weaselboy Reznor's expense, as opposed to
what _you_ think it is from your uninformed viewpoint?
IMHO, one of the best working partners homophobia...or any other
sociopathy...has, is those who whine and wring their hands at how horrible
it all is without any backbone to back up their viewpoint or total
information to understand the situation. Quit working for the other
side, clue up, and lighten up, okay?
D.A.C. Crowell
Audio Design and Programming
KnowledgeMedia/The Aerodyne Works
Champaign, IL, USA.
(da...@tigerden.com)
Tom Jarvela
In a previous article, ez04...@dale.ucdavis.edu (erik) says:
>Although I cannot speak for Kevin, I believe that he is bothered by the
>Buttfuck Parlor Time thing as I am myself. Yes, I agree that it is
>stupid but that does not make it any less harmful or degrading to the
>homosexual segment of our society.
Harmful? Degrading? Heh.. this is a better spoof than the original BFPT
thread! How is anal sex degrading to the _homosexual_ populous? Quite a few
heterosexuals engage in such activities, you know.
And let's think back to when this thing started. Was it really an attack on
homosexuals or an attack on Trent Reznor? I think the latter.
>Threads like BFPT that treat homophobia like a casual, normal, and
>acceptable behavior are a menace to society. It is very disappointing to
>see regular rmi posters contributing to this disease called homophobia.
This from those interested in a genre that originally didn't give an airborne
copulation about hurting peoples' feelings with a few words... "you've come
a long way, baby"... indeed.
*various PC rants deleted for sanity's sake*
>Because of this I feel that is important to stand up and say that
>BFPT is wrong to be on rmi, and is a disgrace to the newsgroup as a whole.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is the FIRST thing I agree with! =)
>I would hope that others on rmi will take notice of this blatant
>discriminatory action and speak out against it.
Hehe.. this really is quite a bit more humourous to me than the BFPT thread
ever was. Oh well.
Greg
Susan Roston
could you please give us some examples??
I would be interested to see these in that I have not seen any. . . .
mike roston--ending
Susan Roston
>
>Threads like BFPT that treat homophobia like a casual, normal, and
>acceptable behavior are a menace to society. It is very disappointing to
>see regular rmi posters contributing to this disease called homophobia.
as one of the prime BFPT writers, i would like to say that if I am doing
anythign along these lines, I am treating HOMOSEXUALITY casually, not
HOMOPHOBIA. if you were going to argue this it would also be arguable that we
are making similar references to bestiality negatively, as well as BDSM, but I
guess you can't defend other sexual deviancies, huh?
>
>I would hope that more people will stand up and defend the
>underrepresented in this newsgroup and not merely disregard BFPT but fight
>against it.
BFPT is a joke making fun of trent reznor, Nine Inch Nails, and their fans. I
am an NIN fan, but I am a prime perpetuator of this. No, nothing will stop me
or just about anyone I know from posting BFPT, it is about trent reznor, not
homosexuality
>
>Homophobia like racism will not just crawl into a hole and disappear like
>some wish it would. Hatred and ignorance is bred and nurtured through
>socialization. These problems can only be stopped if this cycle of
>socialization is brought to an end bit by bit.
I agree. I am wholly in favor of any form of sexuality as long as it does not
violate the wishes and trust of others
>
>If people do not confront these actions of discrimination when they
>appear then those who are doing the discriminating may not realize
>the effects of their statements. This battle against homophobia and all
>other forms of discrimination is not an easy one by far but it is
>neccessary if we are to protect the right to live our lives as we see fit.
please, I would like to see some of the discrimination and racism we are
projecting. Heck, you can always put BFPT in yer kill file
>
>Because of this I feel that is important to stand up and say that
>BFPT is wrong to be on rmi, and is a disgrace to the newsgroup as a whole.
as I said, kill file.
>
>I would hope that others on rmi will take notice of this blatant
>discriminatory action and speak out against it.
>
>Just my opinion, but one I will stand behind until this disease has died.
>
and I will stand up and post BFPT as long as I am here. . . .
mike roston--ending
spi...@vxdesy.desy.de
>> * "Except no limitation - KMFDM, one world, one nation"(Light) *
>
Cool! That is the proof that one should not quote lyrics he is not quiet
able to understand! And I did wonder if the word "limitation" that I under-
stood could mean something like "discrimination" or so.
Thank you very much for ending this misunderstanding! But there is still one
remaining question: is this really a phone number and - if it is - who or
what is on the other side of the line when it is called?
Bye,
Ansgar
PS: The most important part of the quote was anyway "one world one nation"
and this seems to be correct, isn't it.
NOW.I'M.NOTHING
>I wanted to know some of your reactions to this becuase I thought it was total
>bullshit. please crosspost all arguments to rec.music.industrial
>>: I hope its not that stupid Buttfuck Parlor Time thing that's upsetting
>>: you; that's merely an old joke that refuses to die and the less attention
>>: it gets, the better. (Perhaps this is why you're being unspecific.)
>>
>>Although I cannot speak for Kevin, I believe that he is bothered by the
>>Buttfuck Parlor Time thing as I am myself. Yes, I agree that it is
>>stupid but that does not make it any less harmful or degrading to the
>>homosexual segment of our society.
How is it harmful to the homosexual community? I havn't read one BFPT thread
that has bashed homosexuality or condescended it in any way. Yes, the BFPT
posts do use graphic descriptions of what some may believe to be subversive
behaviour, but unless you equate yourself with Trent (or the fictionous poly-
sexual Trent described in most BFPT posts) you have no reason to feel
denigrated.
>>Threads like BFPT that treat homophobia like a casual, normal, and
>>acceptable behavior are a menace to society. It is very disappointing to
>>see regular rmi posters contributing to this disease called homophobia.
Yeah, right. Do you realize that most of the people posting the Butt-Fuck
Parlour Time threads are NIN fans themselves. BFPT was started to make
fun of the perverseness inherent in Trent's music, but most of us revel in
it enough to imagine it on a whole new, and somewhat humourous level.
Please try not to be so sensative.
>>I would hope that more people will stand up and defend the
>>underrepresented in this newsgroup and not merely disregard BFPT but fight
>>against it.
Do your best.
>>Homophobia like racism will not just crawl into a hole and disappear like
>>some wish it would. Hatred and ignorance is bred and nurtured through
>>socialization. These problems can only be stopped if this cycle of
>>socialization is brought to an end bit by bit.
Hatred? Ignorance? Hmmph. Its just humor. Fun. If everyone in the world was
so sensitised that every little group, every little race, every sex had thier
own little space and no one stepped on toes, crossed lines... if everyone
was nice and perfect to each other. How interesting would the world be to
live in? Every ethnic group in existance has been at one time or another, the
butt of a joke. No one is exempt. Not straights, not whites. No one. Yes,
that can get out of hand.. hatred and ignorance can be bred from such pithy
humour. But I doubt any has resulted from this thread...
>>If people do not confront these actions of discrimination when they
>>appear then those who are doing the discriminating may not realize
>>the effects of their statements. This battle against homophobia and all
>>other forms of discrimination is not an easy one by far but it is
>>neccessary if we are to protect the right to live our lives as we see fit.
You, sir, are an extemist. If you really had faith in yourself and your
sexuality, you wouldn't have to worry about what the uncivilized homo-
phobic world thought of you. You could tell them to just fuck off. BFPT is
not a war against homosexuality. It's just a dumb joke.
>>Because of this I feel that is important to stand up and say that
>>BFPT is wrong to be on rmi, and is a disgrace to the newsgroup as a whole.
Yeah, whatever. It's called the first amendment. Look it up.
>>I would hope that others on rmi will take notice of this blatant
>>discriminatory action and speak out against it.
>>
>>Just my opinion, but one I will stand behind until this disease has died.
As long as there are ignorant straights, there is gonna be homophobia.. however
I don't believe this bullshit that "Butt-fuck Parlour Time" or references
of beastiality, whathave you, constitutes a violation of your civil rights.
So it may offend you... if so, just push the "n" key. Pigs, being what we
are, we are bound to piss off someone once in a while. By the way, no one
has ever made any moral opinions about the content of BFPT being sinful or
unnatural.
A.
--
...pigs we get what pigs deserve...
spi...@vxdesy.desy.de
I'm back again coz I forgot one thing:
>> * "Except no limitation - KMFDM, one world, one nation"(Light) *
======
> Isn't it: "Dial 1-800-ACCEPT-NO-IMITATIONS, KMFDM, one world one
======
That was only a vocabulary fault by myself, I thought that it would mean
"Accept no limitation" instead of "imitations". Stupid me, the correspond-
ing German word is "akzeptieren" and isn't it nearly the same?
Buy,
Ansgar
Michael Handler
> * "Except no limitation - KMFDM, one world, one nation"(Light) *
Isn't it: "Dial 1-800-ACCEPT-NO-IMITATIONS, KMFDM, one world one
nation"?
--
Michael Brandt Handler <gre...@netaxs.com>
Philadelphia, PA, USA PGP v2.3a public key via server / finger / mail
"I am iron, I am steel, nobody can touch me when I'm on the wheel" -- Curve
Beast of Eden
>Beast of Eden (boe...@u.washington.edu) wrote:
>
>Threads like BFPT that treat homophobia like a casual, normal, and
>acceptable behavior are a menace to society. It is very disappointing to
>see regular rmi posters contributing to this disease called homophobia.
No, Beast of Eden did not write that. That was Eric arguing *against*
me. Let's keep our attributions straight here.
BOE
Jon Litchfield
>: I hope its not that stupid Buttfuck Parlor Time thing that's upsetting
>: you; that's merely an old joke that refuses to die and the less attention
>: it gets, the better. (Perhaps this is why you're being unspecific.)
>
>Although I cannot speak for Kevin, I believe that he is bothered by the
>Buttfuck Parlor Time thing as I am myself. Yes, I agree that it is
>stupid but that does not make it any less harmful or degrading to the
>homosexual segment of our society.
>
>Threads like BFPT that treat homophobia like a casual, normal, and
>acceptable behavior are a menace to society. It is very disappointing to
>see regular rmi posters contributing to this disease called homophobia.
I really don't see how "buttfuck" is homophobic. If it is, then "cuntfuck"
must be heterophobic. No, both expressions are merely crude. Would you be
so concerned if caroliner or whoever it was that started this monster had
called it "Anal Sex Parlour Time"? I really doubt it.
I might also point out that no one thinks about what BFPT even means
(if it does have a meaning) beyond a great joke about NINnies that has
overstayed its welcome. But I suspect you will see this as a negative
occurance.
Jon
waiting for all the people to tell him he's homophobic. whatever.
c. spencer yeh
Butt-fucking is not exclusive to the homosexual community. I am offended that
you would say otherwise. The anus is the universal sex organ. It is the
common denominator. Sure, we all have breasts (or "tits," for you P.C.ers),
but it's different. Anal-core all the way.
Second, sex is sex. It is sex. S-E-X. If you want, why not bring in the
Animal Rights Veganators as well. I mean, "Samantha and THunder" is cruelty
to animals, isn't it? Shit, I read in the paper about this lady who was
admitted into the hospital because while having sex with her dog, it got stuck
(remember this post a while ago? Concerning spines on animal penises and the
like).
I think the sexual overtones in BFPT are in fact a glorification of all
that... Let's face it. The reason why we go so far is because we ourselves
get no play, and to write our fantasies out about Trent (who we all feel for
anyway through his music)--it is an outlet. It is an exit. It is an insect.
It gets me closer to Trent.
No one is sacred from the BFPT world. It's just that "normal" white-bread
missionary-position is just *too normal* to put in a NIN/Trent/BFPT context.
I mean, shit, "Happiness in Slavery is about the missionary position and how
Trent was a female in a past life, and hated being laid upon by sweaty
groaning Vikings." Sure, there's a point there, but why not throw in a
chicken in there (a la PINK FLAMINGOES). I dunno. At this point, I think I'm
just arguing aesthetic tastes.
This guy next to me in the computer lab is laughing at dumb stuff. Why not
instead laugh at BFPT? Or even the last ST: TNG episode (holy bacarel, it's
*tonight!*). Shit, let's drop all of this conflict, hold hands, and watch
the Enterprise's last adventure on the small-screen. Bye.
--
"Everybody wants to dance with Jesus; nobody wants to dance with me..."
c.s.y.
Susan Roston
and as I apologized via email, erik did write that and not BOE666.
mike roston--ending
Pearce Barry
>Hooo...boooey! Okay, bunkie, lemme clue you in on a couple things...
> First of all, I'm one of the Prime Instigators of the BFPT thang.
>I'm also _gay_...in fact, I've been married to another gay male since 1990
>in one of the best working gay marriages I know of.
Everyone crying "homophobia" charges, please make a note of this!
(Congrats to DAC + Best Wishes!)
| / |\ /| +---- +--- |\ /| BLACK MAN!
| / | \ / | | | | | \ / | WHITE MAN!
|-< | V | +-- | | | V | RIP THE SYSTEM!
| \ | | | | | | |
| \ | | | +--- | | P. Barry = kmfdm%podbo...@cs.utexas.edu
traig scott foltz
wrote:
SOUNDS LIKE Y'ALL THINK YOURE THE THOUGHT POLICE, EVERYTHING IS FUNNY,
EVERYTHING IS RUINED, EVERYTHING IS FREE. THE ONLY THING REQUIRED IN THIS
LIFE IS THAT YOU BE STRONG ENOUGH TO DEFEND YOURE WAY OF LIFE BECAUSE NO
MATTER WHO OR WHAT YOU ARE YOU WILL BE ATTACKED AT ONE POINT OR ANOTHER.
WE ARE ALL MINORITIES SO JUST GET SOME THICK SKIN AND STICK YOUR
POLITICALLY CORRECT PROPAGANDA UP YOUR ASS, IF YOU ARE DIFFERENT YOU WILL
PAY THE PRICE THAT'S JUST HOW IT IS. GET USED TO IT AND STOP WHINNING, PRAY
TO THE FLAME AND DON'T EVER TAKE IT PERSONALLY BECAUSE IF YOU DO, WELL THEN
YOU JUST LOST......
Beast of Eden
>EVERYTHING IS RUINED, EVERYTHING IS FREE.
EVERYTHING IS IN UPPER CASE. <G>
BOE
Susan Roston
D.A.C. Crowell <da...@yiffy.tigerden.com> wrote:
>In article <traig.s.foltz....@foltz.edmedia.nd.edu>,
>traig scott foltz <traig.s...@nd.edu> wrote:
>>
>>SOUNDS LIKE Y'ALL THINK YOURE THE THOUGHT POLICE, EVERYTHING IS FUNNY,
>
>THEY TAUGHT YOU PEOPLE AT NOTRE DAME WHAT THE HELL THE "CAPS LOCK" KEY
>DID!?!?
geeze, DAC, maybe it was intentional. I mean, he is calling us the thought
police and criticzing us. Since people are generally irritated by stuff all in
caps, writing a posting in caps would a)catch our attention
b)irrtate us further. . . .
just a thought, maybe an incompletely formulated one. . . .
mike roston--ending
D.A.C. Crowell
STOP SHOUTING! STOP SHOUTING! STOP SHOUTING! STOP SHOUTING! I THOUGHT
THEY TAUGHT YOU PEOPLE AT NOTRE DAME WHAT THE HELL THE "CAPS LOCK" KEY
DID!?!?
D.A.C. CROWE...uh Crowell
Greg Stevens
>In article <1994May23...@vxdesy.desy.de>, spi...@vxdesy.desy.de
>wrote:
>> I don't read the total news group but you can be sure that I will criticize
>> homophobic remarks whereever I see them. My conviction is that heterosexual
>> and homosexual people should stand together against discrimination.
>> I think that discrimination of people can never be funny if it is discrimimi-
>> nation because of their sexual orientation (I hope this is the right word),
>> because the colour of their skin or because being foreigner or because being
>> women or whatever.
>>
>> Ansgar
>SOUNDS LIKE Y'ALL THINK YOURE THE THOUGHT POLICE, EVERYTHING IS FUNNY,
>EVERYTHING IS RUINED, EVERYTHING IS FREE. THE ONLY THING REQUIRED IN THIS
>LIFE IS THAT YOU BE STRONG ENOUGH TO DEFEND YOURE WAY OF LIFE BECAUSE NO
>MATTER WHO OR WHAT YOU ARE YOU WILL BE ATTACKED AT ONE POINT OR ANOTHER.
>WE ARE ALL MINORITIES SO JUST GET SOME THICK SKIN AND STICK YOUR
>POLITICALLY CORRECT PROPAGANDA UP YOUR ASS, IF YOU ARE DIFFERENT YOU WILL
>PAY THE PRICE THAT'S JUST HOW IT IS. GET USED TO IT AND STOP WHINNING, PRAY
>TO THE FLAME AND DON'T EVER TAKE IT PERSONALLY BECAUSE IF YOU DO, WELL THEN
>YOU JUST LOST.....
Well, I don't know if all instances of "criticizing homophobic remarks"
are equal to "POLITICALLY CORRECT PROPAGANDA" or "WHINNING [sic],"
a comparison that was implicit above.
I can have a "THICK SKIN" and "DEFEND MY WAY OF LIFE" by asserting that
"I think that discrimination of people can never be funny." So I don't
see why all the hostility, traig: Ansgar was just doing what you were
suggesting.
Greg
Greg Stevens
Catching attension is fine, but if the criticism is serious, then his goal
should be more than just to irritate, it should be either persuasive or
informative, neither of which I saw particularly much of in the
post or in the use of all caps...
Greg
>mike roston--ending
pri...@delphi.com
>
>as one of the prime BFPT writers, i would like to say that if I am doing
>anythign along these lines, I am treating HOMOSEXUALITY casually, not
>HOMOPHOBIA. if you were going to argue this it would also be arguable that we
>are making similar references to bestiality negatively, as well as BDSM, but I
>guess you can't defend other sexual deviancies, huh?
>
you is that you have just used one of the de rigueur arguements of the
right wing assholes like the Traditional Values Coalition - that is that
a man having sex with a man (or a woman with a woman) is equivalent to
a human having sex with an animal. They use it whenever they are trying
to overturn sexual orientation clauses in city laws, state laws, etc.
[it is right up there in kneejerk land with "transvestites will come
to school teaching our little johnny and susie wearing dresses"].
As far as "deviancies" go, well I guess I'll just have to be deviant
and not produce some little consumer that will consume 25 times more
than a person in the third world. Given that, perhaps it is not
homosexuals who should be "defending" having sex like animals, eh?
pri...@delphi.com
>
>You, sir, are an extemist. If you really had faith in yourself and your
>sexuality, you wouldn't have to worry about what the uncivilized homo-
>phobic world thought of you. You could tell them to just fuck off. BFPT is
>not a war against homosexuality. It's just a dumb joke.
>
you really think that having "faith" in yourself means that we (that is
we as in gays, queers, bis, whatever) don't have to worry about what the
(to use your term for joke) dumb homophobic world thinks of us? Would
that you could tell that to Harvey Milk, or any one of the countless
people who get bashed every year. We could, in fact, tell them to fuck
off (and often do) but then ya have to deal with the results. As several
women at Camp Sisterspirit in good ol' Mississippi could tell you, it
ain't much fun. And yep, I'm one of those extremists too...as some-
body who has been bashed more than half a dozen times, I want to live.
It's a REAL extreme sentiment. Course I probably dressed the wrong
way, or went to the wrong side of town, or sat in the wrong part of
the bus....You are right, it is a dumb joke.
pri...@delphi.com
>
>>Hooo...boooey! Okay, bunkie, lemme clue you in on a couple things...
>> First of all, I'm one of the Prime Instigators of the BFPT thang.
>>I'm also _gay_...in fact, I've been married to another gay male since 1990
>>in one of the best working gay marriages I know of.
>
>Everyone crying "homophobia" charges, please make a note of this!
>
to Denmark or Sweden (the only countries gay people can get married in)
I guess we have to ask when they are going to settle down and raise a
litter (that WOULD be the next act for him to imitate, wouldn't it?)
Oh, and since this is "one of the best working gay marriages" I guess
he should write a book for the rest of us disfunctional queers. I
would assume that perhaps you have heard of the term "Kapo"? See the
rules are if you get to say anything, we get to say anything.
Anders Leven
>pri...@delphi.com
>wrote:
>
>O.K., so I've noted that DAC is married. Aside from asking if he went
>to Denmark or Sweden (the only countries gay people can get married in)
>I guess we have to ask when they are going to settle down and raise a
>litter (that WOULD be the next act for him to imitate, wouldn't it?)
Hey!!!
No insults please.
Gay people can not get married in Sweden, they have
to go to Denmark.
Anders
--
"I drink to that...
... tonight. " M. Gore
pri...@delphi.com
so much about how "p.c." is bad, we also have people claiming
to be gay and married in the U.S. Not only is marriage
impossible here for gay people (I prefer queer, but I guess
that's why I'm on rmi - and yes I am queer) but gay sex is
STILL against the law in 24 states. I'm just saying some
people seem a little unclear as to where to target their
anger/energy.
Sorry to hear about Sweden. I thought they had made gay marriage
legal too.
Susan Roston
>Susan Roston <sro...@merle.acns.nwu.edu> writes:
>
>>
>>as one of the prime BFPT writers, i would like to say that if I am doing
>>anythign along these lines, I am treating HOMOSEXUALITY casually, not
>>HOMOPHOBIA. if you were going to argue this it would also be arguable that we
>>are making similar references to bestiality negatively, as well as BDSM, but I
>>guess you can't defend other sexual deviancies, huh?
>>
>
I think you have completely missed the point of my article. . .
>Look, I don't really give a hang what you post here. What I will tell
>you is that you have just used one of the de rigueur arguements of the
>right wing assholes like the Traditional Values Coalition - that is that
>a man having sex with a man (or a woman with a woman) is equivalent to
>a human having sex with an animal. They use it whenever they are trying
>to overturn sexual orientation clauses in city laws, state laws, etc.
>[it is right up there in kneejerk land with "transvestites will come
>to school teaching our little johnny and susie wearing dresses"].
no, incorrect. In BFPT, we make jokes about trent reznor including bestiality,
BDSM, etc., as well as homosexuality. I am not comparing homosexuality to
bestiality. they are two different things, I am aware of this and completely
comfprtable with it.
>
>As far as "deviancies" go, well I guess I'll just have to be deviant
>and not produce some little consumer that will consume 25 times more
>than a person in the third world. Given that, perhaps it is not
>homosexuals who should be "defending" having sex like animals, eh?
once again, I am not saying a man having sex with a man(or woman-woman) ios
anyhting like anyone having sex with an animal. I am not criticizing any form
of sexuality that is not mutual between two people(or more). You seem to have
comepletelyignored the rest of my article. If you are gay or homosexual, queer
or whatever you prefer being called, fine by me. I am not a person with
homosexual tendencies dominating my sexuality, but I fully comfortable with
others doing that.
in being so deviant I think you are being ratrher close minded.
mike roston--ending
Susan Roston
so does this make every heterosexual person guilty?? what about those of us
who don't care what someone sitting next to us on the bus likes to do with
anyone sexually?? what about those of us who will and have stuck up for
homosexuals who have been bashed in any way??
BFPT is not an insult to homosexuals or people of any sexuality whatsoever. It
is a joke on one trent Reznor of Nine Inch nails. I want you to live and have
a comfortable life, and I will do my damndest to make sure all people of
homosexual or other -sexual tendency have the same freedom to do something I
would. you seem to be blaming the WHOLE of hetero people for your woes.
miek roston--ending
pri...@delphi.com
>>Look, I don't really give a hang what you post here. What I will tell
>>you is that you have just used one of the de rigueur arguements of the
>>right wing assholes like the Traditional Values Coalition - that is that
>>a man having sex with a man (or a woman with a woman) is equivalent to
>>a human having sex with an animal. They use it whenever they are trying
>>to overturn sexual orientation clauses in city laws, state laws, etc.
>>[it is right up there in kneejerk land with "transvestites will come
>>to school teaching our little johnny and susie wearing dresses"].
>
>no, incorrect. In BFPT, we make jokes about trent reznor including bestiality,
(they have since the 70s, trust me). You may be making jokes about trent,
(and I don't really care about all this, in fact it is quite funny con-
sidering that he doesn't really seem to be saying _anything_ political
about sexuality.) I'm just pointing out that you use the same tactic.
You may not mean to use it in the same way, but the ideas are the same.
>comepletelyignored the rest of my article. If you are gay or homosexual, queer
>or whatever you prefer being called, fine by me. I am not a person with
>homosexual tendencies dominating my sexuality, but I fully comfortable with
>others doing that.
>in being so deviant I think you are being ratrher close minded.
am I being close minded by ignoring the rest of your article. Clarity,
please.
pri...@delphi.com
>>>
>>>You, sir, are an extemist. If you really had faith in yourself and your
>>>sexuality, you wouldn't have to worry about what the uncivilized homo-
>>>phobic world thought of you. You could tell them to just fuck off. BFPT is
My point is that their thoughts preceed their actions, and so yes, we do
have to worry about what the folks on the street (any street, any time)
are thinking about us. It is sort of the same concern (alertness, aware-
ness, whatever) that women must keep about themselves at all times to
avoid being raped. I'm not trying to sound paranoid, just realistic.
>
>so does this make every heterosexual person guilty?? what about those of us
>who don't care what someone sitting next to us on the bus likes to do with
>anyone sexually?? what about those of us who will and have stuck up for
>homosexuals who have been bashed in any way??
the rapine situation I have just described makes all males guilty. It's
just a little "new agey" to say that if we have faith in ourselves we won't
have to worry. If you are realistic you worry. Not all heterosexuals are
bashers (certainly) but unfortunately the ones that are do not give off a
neon blue glow. It's nice that you will stick up for people who are bashed,
but unfortunately bashers (much like rapists) are the opportunistic kind of
scum that don't do it in front of well meaning citizens like yourself.
And I'm sure you'll be glad to know that recently some good samaritans have
been killed defending people out here in San Francisco. So bask in the
glow of shared oppression.
As far as not caring about the sexuality of who sits next to you on the
bus (unless you are attracted to them) I couldn't agree more. Would you
do me a favor and start a letter writing campaign to get gender eliminated
from songs? And how about defacing some of those "pretty family" bill-
boards. Let's eliminate that nasty sexuality that sticks itself in our
face every day. I think you know the kind I mean.
>BFPT is not an insult to homosexuals or people of any sexuality whatsoever. It
>is a joke on one trent Reznor of Nine Inch nails. I want you to live and have
>a comfortable life, and I will do my damndest to make sure all people of
>homosexual or other -sexual tendency have the same freedom to do something I
>would. you seem to be blaming the WHOLE of hetero people for your woes.
>
port. I trust you will not be getting married, and raising a family so that
you can bask in the pleasures of heterosexual privilege. Perhaps you could
even "come out" to some friends or your parents to move the agenda along.
And make sure to work to repeal those sodomy laws in the 24 states they
remain in.
And no, I don't blame the hole (whoops, whole) of heterosexuals for 2000
years of being pilloried, burned at the stake, etc. Just the churches,
states, and intergovernmental institutions that do not take this kind of
discrimination seriously. So don't support them, either.
Yours lovingly,
A hate filled homosexual,
Priapus
Eat me the fast way.
> so does this make every heterosexual person guilty?? what about those of us
nope, just the guilty ones.
> who don't care what someone sitting next to us on the bus likes to do with
> anyone sexually?? what about those of us who will and have stuck up for
> homosexuals who have been bashed in any way??
Actions speak louder than words.
> BFPT is not an insult to homosexuals or people of any sexuality whatsoever. It
ok so far.
> is a joke on one trent Reznor of Nine Inch nails. I want you to live and have
ohh, now I get it.
It is a joke on trent reznor to call him a fag.
I see, being a fag is something he should be ashamed of, and that is what
makes it a joke.
> a comfortable life, and I will do my damndest to make sure all people of
> homosexual or other -sexual tendency have the same freedom to do something I
> would. you seem to be blaming the WHOLE of hetero people for your woes.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It's power trip time.
>
>
> mike roston--ending
>
mike roston--GUILTY
?Dave?
Hal...@hiram.edu
'This superb vodka bears the distinctive flavor of natural Black Currants,
which grow throughout Sweden, even above the Artic Circle. Flavoring vodka
with berries is an age-old Swedish tradition. Vodka has been sold under the
name Absolut since 1879'
And that I typed that from memory is even scarier!
Kevin Archibald
: > is a joke on one trent Reznor of Nine Inch nails. I want you to live and have
: ohh, now I get it.
: It is a joke on trent reznor to call him a fag.
: I see, being a fag is something he should be ashamed of, and that is what
: makes it a joke.
This was the way I took the thread, beyond just luring nin newbies. But from
what I gather, this is not the way it's intended, and a poor assumption on my
part to consider anal intercourse a homosexual/deviant act. And I apologize
for that. Back to music, shall we? why, industrial music is dying. Did anyone
read the Empty Quarter editorial? My thoughts on this? We need lyrics with
meaning, not empty slogans. And bands need to experiment with sound, like
creating sounds, not pushing presets. It takes time to do this, but maybe
better music would come out, and I could spend a little less money. As Jim
Cooke says, "Quality, not quantity." And check that freshness date...
Kevin (k...@netcom.com)
--
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Observe the World and Think <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> /--\ /--\ /--\ /--\ <
> /| / Hypocrisy in the Land of the Free \ |\ <
> / | / Hostility and Stupidity \ | \ <
> / | / Keep your progress to yourself... \ | \ <
> / |/ \| \ <
> \__/ \__/ \__/ \__/ <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The church of my choice is the free, open world" <<<<<<<<<<<<<<
NOW.I'M.NOTHING
>Susan Roston <sro...@merle.acns.nwu.edu> writes:
>
>>>Look, I don't really give a hang what you post here. What I will tell
>>>you is that you have just used one of the de rigueur arguements of the
>>>right wing assholes like the Traditional Values Coalition - that is that
>>>a man having sex with a man (or a woman with a woman) is equivalent to
>>>a human having sex with an animal. They use it whenever they are trying
>>>to overturn sexual orientation clauses in city laws, state laws, etc.
>>>[it is right up there in kneejerk land with "transvestites will come
>>>to school teaching our little johnny and susie wearing dresses"].
>>
>>no, incorrect. In BFPT, we make jokes about trent reznor including bestiality,
>
>
>I am _NOT_ incorrect in saying that right wing assholes use this arguement
>(they have since the 70s, trust me).
Whether you are correct or not is unimportant, you're arguement remains
irrelevant to the issue. No one is comparing homosexuality to bestiality.
Because both subjects frequently come up in posts doesn't mean that the
poster is making an assumption that queers are into screwing animals.
You may be making jokes about trent,
>(and I don't really care about all this, in fact it is quite funny con-
>sidering that he doesn't really seem to be saying _anything_ political
>about sexuality.)
Why should he? Maybe he isn't concerned with it's legality. He does comment
on religous views toward homosexueality. Look up the lyrics to Sin and Heresy.
I'm just pointing out that you use the same tactic.
>You may not mean to use it in the same way, but the ideas are the same.
Whatever. Well you can continue to live under this dillusion that the whole
world, including us nasty BFPT posters are out to get you. I don't care one
whit.
>>comepletelyignored the rest of my article. If you are gay or homosexual, queer
>>or whatever you prefer being called, fine by me. I am not a person with
>>homosexual tendencies dominating my sexuality, but I fully comfortable with
>>others doing that.
>>in being so deviant I think you are being ratrher close minded.
>
>Is that I am close minded by being queer? No, I'm just being myself. Or
>am I being close minded by ignoring the rest of your article. Clarity,
>please.
You are implying that us straights are close minded. Just because you live
an alternative lifestyle in bed does'nt make you any more open-minded than
the rest of us. Nor does it make you special.
A.
--
...cold pizza, stale beer, and guys guys guys!
-T.Reznor-Kin, Butt-Fuck Parlour Time 331/3
NOW.I'M.NOTHING
[dreck]
>Your point here is that we do not have to care about what people think.
>My point is that their thoughts preceed their actions, and so yes, we do
>have to worry about what the folks on the street (any street, any time)
>are thinking about us. It is sort of the same concern (alertness, aware-
>
No, that was my point. Look, do what you have to do. Work out, get big. Carry
a gun. Whatever... you may not feel safe in the hetero world, but don't accuse
us of creating your delimma. Writing nasty rumours about Trent's sex life
doesn't contribute to the homophobia of this world. If so, I please ask
you to prove it.
Gee, I'm sorry you are having all of these problems because you are homosexual.
However, asking me to carry the weight of you're problems would be totally
stupid. Why should the rest of the world bend there necks out to please a
minority?
A.
NOW.I'M.NOTHING
>Mike/Susan Roston Spoke thus:
>> so does this make every heterosexual person guilty?? what about those of us
>
>nope, just the guilty ones.
>
>> who don't care what someone sitting next to us on the bus likes to do with
>> anyone sexually?? what about those of us who will and have stuck up for
>> homosexuals who have been bashed in any way??
>
>Actions speak louder than words.
>
>> BFPT is not an insult to homosexuals or people of any sexuality whatsoever. It
>
> ok so far.
>
>> is a joke on one trent Reznor of Nine Inch nails. I want you to live and have
> ohh, now I get it.
>It is a joke on trent reznor to call him a fag.
having a intercourse with one of his managers and sampling it into a song.
But if being gay, isn't about anal intercourse, as so much of your ranks
contend, then what have ye to gripe about? BTW, I believe Trent has been
deemed uni-sexual in most BFPT posts, meaning, he'll fuck anything.
>I see, being a fag is something he should be ashamed of, and that is what
>makes it a joke.
No. You should go back and read the posts then make the decision.
>
>> a comfortable life, and I will do my damndest to make sure all people of
>> homosexual or other -sexual tendency have the same freedom to do something I
>> would. you seem to be blaming the WHOLE of hetero people for your woes.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>It's power trip time.
But it's true!
>>
>> mike roston--ending
>>
>mike roston--GUILTY
>
>?Dave?
>Hal...@hiram.edu
A.--Guilty of what?
NOW.I'M.NOTHING
[shit]
Look. Grow up. This is rec.music.industrial. Do you really think that com-
passion is one of the key motivators of this newsgroup? Don't you think
that thinks are getting a little out of hand when people start addressing
other's in their subject lines... sorta as a personal flame? You seem resigned
to your opinions, leave us with ours. I don't think that people need to be
sensetive to what they post, just because it might step on someone's toes.
What p.c. crap. If you can't take it get out of the pit man.
A.
00gdw...@bsuvc.bsu.edu
> Susan Roston <sro...@merle.acns.nwu.edu> writes:
>
>>
>>as one of the prime BFPT writers, i would like to say that if I am doing
>>anythign along these lines, I am treating HOMOSEXUALITY casually, not
>>HOMOPHOBIA. if you were going to argue this it would also be arguable that we
>>are making similar references to bestiality negatively, as well as BDSM, but I
>>guess you can't defend other sexual deviancies, huh?
>>
>
> Look, I don't really give a hang what you post here. What I will tell
> you is that you have just used one of the de rigueur arguements of the
> right wing assholes like the Traditional Values Coalition - that is that
> a man having sex with a man (or a woman with a woman) is equivalent to
> a human having sex with an animal. They use it whenever they are trying
> to overturn sexual orientation clauses in city laws, state laws, etc.
> [it is right up there in kneejerk land with "transvestites will come
> to school teaching our little johnny and susie wearing dresses"].
1) If you don't "give a hang what we post here," why do you constantly pester
us who were enjoying ourselves with kneejerk (there's THAT word again)
liberalism and PC bullshit. Been listening to Lame Against the MAchine lately,
or are you just bored? Posts such as yours are only further proof that HUMOR
(yes, HUMOR) is the ultimate anathema to so-called POlitical Correctnes (a term
coined by Josef Stalin, by the way.)
2) You are just as guilty of using the same doublespeak as the so-called
Traditional Values Coalition. You have done nothing but made blanket
statements about this newsgroup since you wormed your way in here. To remind
you, here's some pointers:
a) We are mocking out TRENT REZNOR, not THE GAY COMMUNITY. 1
person does NOT equal millions.
b) Mocking something out does NOT equal hatred. DO you hate your
friends when you make fun of them? I should hope not. Therefore, how can you
say we're homophobic when we are MAKING FUN of something. Many of the gays I
know and work with, and indeed ARE GOOD FRIENDS WITH, mock out MY sexual
orientation with impunity, so Hell, why not? Or is that badbadbad in your
book?
If our posts offend you, LEAVE or KILLFILE. 'Nuff said.
>
> As far as "deviancies" go, well I guess I'll just have to be deviant
> and not produce some little consumer that will consume 25 times more
> than a person in the third world. Given that, perhaps it is not
> homosexuals who should be "defending" having sex like animals, eh?
Uh, yeah, right. dolt.
--- We@sel
"I tell myself I will not go...even as I drive there..."
Cameron Lewis
it was more than that..... and in some it's legal, but only if you're
married, so they fuck over he homosexual populace by saying "you
can't get married here") are well taken, and meaningful, but
what in the blue fuck does a bad NIN BFPT joke have to do with it?
Is it because anal sex is mentioned in the fake album name?
Huh? could've sworn I heard about HETEROS doing that as well....
hmmmm..... well, since that doesn't make any sense, and I
missed the beginning of this whole thread, could somebody please
explain to my poor idiotic self why RMU is homophobic? I don't mean
individuals IN RMI, I mean why is the whole thing homophobic which is
what you're saying in all these subject headers....
is it just me that's bewildered?
Cameron Lewis
> (they have since the 70s, trust me). You may be making jokes about trent,
> (and I don't really care about all this, in fact it is quite funny con-
> sidering that he doesn't really seem to be saying _anything_ political
> about sexuality.) I'm just pointing out that you use the same tactic.
> You may not mean to use it in the same way, but the ideas are the same.
>
>
> am I being close minded by ignoring the rest of your article. Clarity,
> please.
I think it's pretty interesting how you dance around the real issue
twisting the words.... he was not saying that you were wrong.... nobody
will argue with you on the idea that right wing shitheads use the
image of bestiality and equate it with homosexualism.... what he
is saying is that that is NOT what he is about....
And what he meant about "I think you are being rather closed minded"
was that by thinking that any joke that even REMOTELY has homosexual
ovetones he's being homophobic... granted you haven't said as much,
and I
'm playing with words a bit myself, but nobody seems
to be posting any real REASONS why anything on this board is homophobic.
They're JOKES for chrissake. They have nothing to do with sexuality
at all really, they have to do with taking images that would never
be put on a NIN record (at least not at the moment.... :) )
and acting like they're the most natural thing in the world....
nobody seems to be making any real PROGRESS with htis argument....
just a lot of "I have nothing against homosexuals" kneejerk
defensiveness and "well you're saying things that such and such
a prick said, that's all I'm saying, not implying anything at all,
la-tee-da" skirt-the-issue idiocy. Nobody is making points one way
or the other.
So I ask again (and I realize this is all sounding rather pompous and
self-righteous, but please ignore that flame bait and examine what I
m actually trying to say):
"What the fuck is homophobic about R.M.I.? That was the original
subject header.... so? How bout an answer for a change?
"
Just being a cock.
Susan Roston
>Susan Roston <sro...@merle.acns.nwu.edu> writes:
>
>>>>
>>>>You, sir, are an extemist. If you really had faith in yourself and your
>>>>sexuality, you wouldn't have to worry about what the uncivilized homo-
>>>>phobic world thought of you. You could tell them to just fuck off. BFPT is
>
>
>Your point here is that we do not have to care about what people think.
>My point is that their thoughts preceed their actions, and so yes, we do
>have to worry about what the folks on the street (any street, any time)
>are thinking about us. It is sort of the same concern (alertness, aware-
>ness, whatever) that women must keep about themselves at all times to
>avoid being raped. I'm not trying to sound paranoid, just realistic.
yes, I am also aware of this. I also know that by being more paranoid about it
you add to it. When a black man becomes racist against white people, it gives
white people all the more reason to hate him, becuase they can then say that
those "dirty niggers" are doing the same thing as us. I am in a high school
where this is a black majority. I am comfortable with this, but I am also
aware how that racism feels. you need to rise up away from it. as well as be
aware of it. if you let it dominate your life, you become exactly what you
hate the most.
>
>>
>>so does this make every heterosexual person guilty?? what about those of us
>>who don't care what someone sitting next to us on the bus likes to do with
>>anyone sexually?? what about those of us who will and have stuck up for
>>homosexuals who have been bashed in any way??
>
>
>Of course this does not make every heterosexual person guilty, any more than
>the rapine situation I have just described makes all males guilty. It's
>just a little "new agey" to say that if we have faith in ourselves we won't
>have to worry. If you are realistic you worry. Not all heterosexuals are
>bashers (certainly) but unfortunately the ones that are do not give off a
>neon blue glow. It's nice that you will stick up for people who are bashed,
>but unfortunately bashers (much like rapists) are the opportunistic kind of
>scum that don't do it in front of well meaning citizens like yourself.
>
>And I'm sure you'll be glad to know that recently some good samaritans have
>been killed defending people out here in San Francisco. So bask in the
>glow of shared oppression.
well, then they died well. it is a shame they would have to die at all in
defense of someone else, but they certainly died a noble death. I have indeed
stuck up verbally for homosexuals and gotten weird looks as a result of it.
>
>As far as not caring about the sexuality of who sits next to you on the
>bus (unless you are attracted to them) I couldn't agree more. Would you
>do me a favor and start a letter writing campaign to get gender eliminated
>from songs? And how about defacing some of those "pretty family" bill-
>boards. Let's eliminate that nasty sexuality that sticks itself in our
>face every day. I think you know the kind I mean.
>
no, if someone wants to write about women or men or both or neither, they have
the right to do it, it's called constitutionality pal. Sure though, lets start
letter writing campaigns attacking our lovely senators and representatives to
see how comfortable they are with homosexuality and expose it. other such
tactics would be fine. if you would like to coordinate something like this,
please email me.
>
>>BFPT is not an insult to homosexuals or people of any sexuality whatsoever. It
>>is a joke on one trent Reznor of Nine Inch nails. I want you to live and have
>>a comfortable life, and I will do my damndest to make sure all people of
>>homosexual or other -sexual tendency have the same freedom to do something I
>>would. you seem to be blaming the WHOLE of hetero people for your woes.
>>
>
>
>Enjoy your little joke. It doesn't offend me. And thank you for your sup-
>port. I trust you will not be getting married, and raising a family so that
>you can bask in the pleasures of heterosexual privilege. Perhaps you could
>even "come out" to some friends or your parents to move the agenda along.
>And make sure to work to repeal those sodomy laws in the 24 states they
>remain in.
whether or not I get married does not matter. If I do, it won't be for
heterosexuality, it will be for love.
>
>And no, I don't blame the hole (whoops, whole) of heterosexuals for 2000
>years of being pilloried, burned at the stake, etc. Just the churches,
>states, and intergovernmental institutions that do not take this kind of
>discrimination seriously. So don't support them, either.
I don't support them. and I will do my damndest tog et out of paying taxes
when I need to. and I don't support the catholic church for similar reasons
you don't as well as for others.
as I said for the above thing, if you want to rub out the sodomy laws, email
me and lets coordinate something
mike roston--ending
Susan Roston
Eat me the fast way. <hal...@hiram.edu> wrote:
>Mike Roston Spoke thus:
>> so does this make every heterosexual person guilty?? what about those of us
>
>nope, just the guilty ones.
agreed
>
>> who don't care what someone sitting next to us on the bus likes to do with
>> anyone sexually?? what about those of us who will and have stuck up for
>> homosexuals who have been bashed in any way??
>
>Actions speak louder than words.
see previous note to priapus on verbal defense. need to physically defend
someone has not yet risen, but if it does, I will stick to my guns and all
that shit.
>
>> BFPT is not an insult to homosexuals or people of any sexuality whatsoever. It
>
> ok so far.
>
>> is a joke on one trent Reznor of Nine Inch nails. I want you to live and have
> ohh, now I get it.
>It is a joke on trent reznor to call him a fag.
>I see, being a fag is something he should be ashamed of, and that is what
>makes it a joke.
if you can find one reference to me callign trent a fag, please indicate it.
if you like, I will post just about every BFPT posting from about august last
eyar which I have archived. and no, being gay is not something to be ashamed
of at all. for the most parts, my jokes have been confined to trent and
masturbation and sex with a certain horse. do i see homosexuality in here??
methinks not.
>
>> a comfortable life, and I will do my damndest to make sure all people of
>> homosexual or other -sexual tendency have the same freedom to do something I
>> would. you seem to be blaming the WHOLE of hetero people for your woes.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>It's power trip time.
yee ha
>>
>>
>> mike roston--ending
>>
>mike roston--GUILTY
of??
please present the evidence sir. so far you have made allegations which it
seems you have no way to back up.
mike roston--ending
pri...@delphi.com
>I think it's pretty interesting how you dance around the real issue
>twisting the words.... he was not saying that you were wrong.... nobody
>image of bestiality and equate it with homosexualism.... what he
>is saying is that that is NOT what he is about....
>
the middle of this protracted joke. My point is that though HE may
not mean this doesn't mean that anyone reading it may not interpret
it in their own way. And NO I'm not saying that he shouldn't say this
(he can say whatever he wants.) He should just be prepared for people
to interpret it this way.
>
>And what he meant about "I think you are being rather closed minded"
>was that by thinking that any joke that even REMOTELY has homosexual
>ovetones he's being homophobic... granted you haven't said as much,
the joke, just the excrement extruding as reasons for it.
>"What the fuck is homophobic about R.M.I.? That was the original
>subject header.... so? How bout an answer for a change?
I DON'T think R.M.I. is homophobic. I was reacting to specific content
in specific messages. But is sure has been fun, hasn't it?
pri...@delphi.com
> You may be making jokes about trent,
>>(and I don't really care about all this, in fact it is quite funny con-
>>sidering that he doesn't really seem to be saying _anything_ political
>>about sexuality.)
>
>Why should he? Maybe he isn't concerned with it's legality. He does comment
>on religous views toward homosexueality. Look up the lyrics to Sin and Heresy.
>
ploy and marry Iman. Assuming she is still alive.
>>Is that I am close minded by being queer? No, I'm just being myself. Or
>>am I being close minded by ignoring the rest of your article. Clarity,
>>please.
>
>You are implying that us straights are close minded. Just because you live
>an alternative lifestyle in bed does'nt make you any more open-minded than
>the rest of us. Nor does it make you special.
>
close minded (some of my best friends are straight heh-heh.) Fortunately
I'm no more open minded that you as the folks who threw the bottles and
rocks missed.
And of course we aren't special. And we don't deserve special rights either,
do we pal. You know like the special right to live or work where we want
to.
Hey, were you at Stanford a couple of weeks ago? It isn't THAT far from
Bakersfield.
pri...@delphi.com
>
>No I don't use the same tactic. Until you just mentioned it, the idea of
>homosexuality being comparitive to bestiality has _NEVER_ occurred to me. it
>is one of the most rediculous sounding things I have ever heard.
>
I agree, it is silly. However, we (royal we here) have come to expect
much silliness from the right. If you keep following this thread you
will see that another commentator says that "yep, I've heard that too."
Sorry, didn't mean to tar you with the same brush.
>
>no, it means that you in being so, how should I say, in fear of homophobia
>around every corner(see next aritcle) have become close minded and shoot down
>anything that by stretching the truth could be considered homophobic. I don't
>give a shit whether or not you are gay, if you are straight or whatever the
>fuck term you want to use, I would say the same god damn thing
>
So I'm homophobia-phobic? Well excuse me but it has been 25 years since
Stonewall (look it up) and we still aren't legal in 24 of the states. Only
5 states have any anti-discrimination laws. Several cities and one state
have recinded ordinances. Gay marriage is illegal (regardless of delusional
people who say they are married), adoption is out of the picture for most
gay people, the rate of bashing increases every year - do I need to go
on (I can hear you saying "no, please don't.") As I mentioned, I have been
bashed many times, and lost hundreds of friends to AIDS - so maybe I am a
little over sensitive. Ooops, gotta run - time to take my prozac.
Susan Roston
>Susan Roston <sro...@merle.acns.nwu.edu> writes:
>
>>>avoid being raped. I'm not trying to sound paranoid, just realistic.
>>
>>yes, I am also aware of this. I also know that by being more paranoid about it
>>you add to it. When a black man becomes racist against white people, it gives
>>white people all the more reason to hate him, becuase they can then say that
>>those "dirty niggers" are doing the same thing as us. I am in a high school
>>where this is a black majority. I am comfortable with this, but I am also
>>aware how that racism feels. you need to rise up away from it. as well as be
>>aware of it. if you let it dominate your life, you become exactly what you
>>hate the most.
>
>
>that you can't get caught up running around hating people. It isn't very
>constructive. At the same time my point about being aware of your sur-
>roundings still stands - an awareness, not a paranoia.
well, as long as it is awareness and not paranoia that is good. I guess you
always have to know where you are and are not safe. FOr instance, here in
chicago, if you are black, don't go into bridgeport, and if you are white,
stay the hell away from the ghettoes. As much as you may want that
integration, you are correct, you need to be aware of where it isn't workable
with the current norm.
>
>>
>>no, if someone wants to write about women or men or both or neither, they have
>>the right to do it, it's called constitutionality pal. Sure though, lets start
>>letter writing campaigns attacking our lovely senators and representatives to
>>see how comfortable they are with homosexuality and expose it. other such
>>tactics would be fine. if you would like to coordinate something like this,
>>please email me.
>>
>
>This sort of thing is already going on. It is being done by the National
>Lesbian and Gay Task Force and the Human Rights Campaign Fund. I'll send
>more details via e-mail.
that's fine and all but I would rather go independent than be under some
larger blanket organization. . . just a me thing
>
>>
>>whether or not I get married does not matter. If I do, it won't be for
>>heterosexuality, it will be for love.
>>
>
>
>It was sort of a joke (how embarassing to have to explain.) But anyway, all
>I am pointing out here is that by getting married you are exercising a right
>that doesn't currently exist for same sex couples in the U.S. You're right
>these are the sort of things that change over time - but don't expect too
>much - our lovely Senate passed a bill excluding people with HIV from the
>U.S. by a whopping 92-2 last year.
the lack of right for homosexuals to marry is unfortunate. I guess that is one
of those things I can crusade for so to speak in my later life as well as
doing as much damage with it as I can now.
as for HIV, it seems unfortunate that the disease hit the gay community
hardest. I have lately seen the disease as a bit of the whole "nature's
revenge" idea with its apparent adaptability. why it hit the gay community
harder than the "straight" community is hard to comprehend though with the
natrue's revenge idea in mind. Just prventing to spread it with that bill I
guess.
as an after thought, as much as we have learned from ancient greek society,
why is it that we ignored their philosophies on sexuality??
mike roston--ending
pri...@delphi.com
>People write:
>
>[shit]
TKK: O.K., we're going to have a good time tonight!
Everyone is telling me that you have been real naughty....
if you can't survive then just die. Hey, buddy, you'd be real popular
in Belgrade right now!
>A.
Hole
Susan Roston
>Susan Roston <sro...@merle.acns.nwu.edu> writes:
>
>>>Look, I don't really give a hang what you post here. What I will tell
>>>you is that you have just used one of the de rigueur arguements of the
>>>right wing assholes like the Traditional Values Coalition - that is that
>>>a man having sex with a man (or a woman with a woman) is equivalent to
>>>a human having sex with an animal. They use it whenever they are trying
>>>to overturn sexual orientation clauses in city laws, state laws, etc.
>>>[it is right up there in kneejerk land with "transvestites will come
>>>to school teaching our little johnny and susie wearing dresses"].
>>
>>no, incorrect. In BFPT, we make jokes about trent reznor including bestiality,
>
>
>I am _NOT_ incorrect in saying that right wing assholes use this arguement
>(they have since the 70s, trust me). You may be making jokes about trent,
>(and I don't really care about all this, in fact it is quite funny con-
>sidering that he doesn't really seem to be saying _anything_ political
>about sexuality.) I'm just pointing out that you use the same tactic.
>You may not mean to use it in the same way, but the ideas are the same.
No I don't use the same tactic. Until you just mentioned it, the idea of
homosexuality being comparitive to bestiality has _NEVER_ occurred to me. it
is one of the most rediculous sounding things I have ever heard.
>
>>comepletelyignored the rest of my article. If you are gay or homosexual, queer
>>or whatever you prefer being called, fine by me. I am not a person with
>>homosexual tendencies dominating my sexuality, but I fully comfortable with
>>others doing that.
>>in being so deviant I think you are being ratrher close minded.
>
>Is that I am close minded by being queer? No, I'm just being myself. Or
>am I being close minded by ignoring the rest of your article. Clarity,
>please.
no, it means that you in being so, how should I say, in fear of homophobia
around every corner(see next aritcle) have become close minded and shoot down
anything that by stretching the truth could be considered homophobic. I don't
give a shit whether or not you are gay, if you are straight or whatever the
fuck term you want to use, I would say the same god damn thing
mike roston--ending
pri...@delphi.com
>No, that was my point. Look, do what you have to do. Work out, get big. Carry
>a gun. Whatever... you may not feel safe in the hetero world, but don't accuse
>us of creating your delimma. Writing nasty rumours about Trent's sex life
carry a weapon. I guess Colorado, Austin, Cincinatti, and all of those
other places where gay rights laws have been overturned by the majority
of the voting citizens were overturned by queers, eh? We're so silly!
>
>Gee, I'm sorry you are having all of these problems because you are homosexual.
>However, asking me to carry the weight of you're problems would be totally
>stupid. Why should the rest of the world bend there necks out to please a
>minority?
>
about title IX? No reason for you to go out of your way to please a
minority - just kill off the rest of those Indians, take their land, and
then declare the good ol' U.S. of A. a CHRISTIAN country - cuz we'all
don't care about thoses other people. I think we have an escapee from
alt.rush-limbaugh here.
pri...@delphi.com
>
>I think it's pretty interesting how you dance around the real issue
>twisting the words.... he was not saying that you were wrong.... nobody
>will argue with you on the idea that right wing shitheads use the
>image of bestiality and equate it with homosexualism.... what he
>is saying is that that is NOT what he is about....
>
you will see that there ARE indeed individuals who for reasons unknown
(perhaps they have been trapped in a remote area) will argue that they
had never heard of the right wing's connection between bestiality and
homosexuality.
>
>And what he meant about "I think you are being rather closed minded"
>was that by thinking that any joke that even REMOTELY has homosexual
>ovetones he's being homophobic... granted you haven't said as much,
really all after me @=> I'm NOT upset with the joke, O.K.? (every
body got that now?) But some of the rhetoric questioning why I would
dare even question this line of thinking smacks a little of lock step
here. I'm not accusing him of being homophobic, I'm just saying that
some of the same lines he has used have been used by the right. And
nooooo- I'm not saying he can't or shouldn't post these things here -
but it IS O.K. for me to ask about the intent, isn't it?
>just a lot of "I have nothing against homosexuals" kneejerk
they have been very liberal about my nastyness. And I'd like to thank the
academy and god....
>"What the fuck is homophobic about R.M.I.? That was the original
>subject header.... so? How bout an answer for a change?
have to go back pretty far to find the person who did. And then he
apologized! Chickenshit. Can't stand a man who can't stand a good brawl.
NOW.I'M.NOTHING
Mike Roston says:
>if you can find one reference to me callign trent a fag, please indicate it.
>if you like, I will post just about every BFPT posting from about august last
>eyar which I have archived. and no, being gay is not something to be ashamed
>of at all. for the most parts, my jokes have been confined to trent and
>masturbation and sex with a certain horse. do i see homosexuality in here??
>methinks not.
Careful what ya say round here, Mike... all the hetero's that masturbate are
sure to be up in arms about being accused of bestiality. We wouldn't want
to step on any toes now would we? *crunch crunch*
*pops another handfull of sarcasm pills*
And then what about that poor Tijajahna Horse Dancer? She is sure to read you
the riot act.
A.
--
...the true key to hapiness is enjoying multiple sarcasms
tun...@academic.csubak.edu
Susan Roston
>Susan Roston <sro...@merle.acns.nwu.edu> writes:
>
>>
>>No I don't use the same tactic. Until you just mentioned it, the idea of
>>homosexuality being comparitive to bestiality has _NEVER_ occurred to me. it
>>is one of the most rediculous sounding things I have ever heard.
>>
>
>I agree, it is silly. However, we (royal we here) have come to expect
>much silliness from the right. If you keep following this thread you
>will see that another commentator says that "yep, I've heard that too."
>Sorry, didn't mean to tar you with the same brush.
yeah, well, I guess that means I havn't been trapped under the conservative
propaganda
>
>>
>>no, it means that you in being so, how should I say, in fear of homophobia
>>around every corner(see next aritcle) have become close minded and shoot down
>>anything that by stretching the truth could be considered homophobic. I don't
>>give a shit whether or not you are gay, if you are straight or whatever the
>>fuck term you want to use, I would say the same god damn thing
>>
>
>
>So I'm homophobia-phobic? Well excuse me but it has been 25 years since
>Stonewall (look it up) and we still aren't legal in 24 of the states. Only
>5 states have any anti-discrimination laws. Several cities and one state
>have recinded ordinances. Gay marriage is illegal (regardless of delusional
>people who say they are married), adoption is out of the picture for most
>gay people, the rate of bashing increases every year - do I need to go
>on (I can hear you saying "no, please don't.") As I mentioned, I have been
>bashed many times, and lost hundreds of friends to AIDS - so maybe I am a
>little over sensitive. Ooops, gotta run - time to take my prozac.
not homophobia phobic, some of your statements just lend at an indication of
heterophobia. maybe I am wrong, and I do understand the fear, but it is
somethign you can hope to rise above in a sense. . . .this and that, yes I
know it sounds like all of the "self-enlightening" and somewhat liberal shit,
but I don't believe in political correctness for myself. political correctness
implies politics. i am no politician(nor was meant to be). <-- he he, tag that
one.
mike roston--ending
pri...@delphi.com
>>avoid being raped. I'm not trying to sound paranoid, just realistic.
>
>yes, I am also aware of this. I also know that by being more paranoid about it
>you add to it. When a black man becomes racist against white people, it gives
>white people all the more reason to hate him, becuase they can then say that
>those "dirty niggers" are doing the same thing as us. I am in a high school
>where this is a black majority. I am comfortable with this, but I am also
>aware how that racism feels. you need to rise up away from it. as well as be
>aware of it. if you let it dominate your life, you become exactly what you
>hate the most.
that you can't get caught up running around hating people. It isn't very
constructive. At the same time my point about being aware of your sur-
roundings still stands - an awareness, not a paranoia.
>
>the right to do it, it's called constitutionality pal. Sure though, lets start
>letter writing campaigns attacking our lovely senators and representatives to
>see how comfortable they are with homosexuality and expose it. other such
>tactics would be fine. if you would like to coordinate something like this,
>please email me.
>
Lesbian and Gay Task Force and the Human Rights Campaign Fund. I'll send
more details via e-mail.
>
>heterosexuality, it will be for love.
>
pri...@delphi.com
>All the points about sodomy being illegal in 24 states (I thought
>it was more than that..... and in some it's legal, but only if you're
battles right now as they are gender specific. NGLTF can give you the
exact statistics.
About that header - I got caught up in the middle of this one just like
you. I don't think that RMI is homophobic. Some of the answers in this
strand have been particularly telling, however about particular individ-
uals.
pri...@delphi.com
>1) If you don't "give a hang what we post here," why do you constantly pester
>us who were enjoying ourselves with kneejerk (there's THAT word again)
>liberalism and PC bullshit. Been listening to Lame Against the MAchine lately,
this lame "joke" in the middle.
>
>2) You are just as guilty of using the same doublespeak as the so-called
>Traditional Values Coalition. You have done nothing but made blanket
>statements about this newsgroup since you wormed your way in here. To remind
>you, here's some pointers:
>
to direct quotes from individuals. I didn't name this thread.
>say we're homophobic when we are MAKING FUN of something. Many of the gays I
>know and work with, and indeed ARE GOOD FRIENDS WITH, mock out MY sexual
>orientation with impunity, so Hell, why not? Or is that badbadbad in your
>>
>> As far as "deviancies" go, well I guess I'll just have to be deviant
>> and not produce some little consumer that will consume 25 times more
>> than a person in the third world. Given that, perhaps it is not
>> homosexuals who should be "defending" having sex like animals, eh?
>
>Uh, yeah, right. dolt.
Brilliant, just brilliant. Tell me, how long have you been reading
Stalin?
And, by the way, I'm not leaving
****************************************************************************
* Breed, Breed, and from his throne he could see the unceasing breeding *
* of those denied by genius *
* *
* Diamanda Galas - Vena Cava *
****************************************************************************
Adam J Weitzman
SHUT UP!!!
SHUT UP, SHUT UP, SHUT UP, SHUT UP, SHUT UP, SHUT UP, SHUT UP!!!!!
This whole discussion is not only idiotic, but doesn't belong here.
If anybody thinks that a joke about an imaginary Nine Inch Nails album
called "Buttfuck Parlor Time" is homophobic, then that person is
stupid. Stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid. Where is the
homophobia?!? Where is it?!? Point it out or go away.
If anyone reading this group is offended by the word "buttfuck" to
refer to anal sex (which, last time I checked, was not the sole
province of homosexuals), then that person is in the wrong group. This
is industrial music, folks, we're supposed to be extreme. (As though
"buttfuck" was an extreme word. :-)
Anyone calling this group homophobic because we continue to make jokes
about this non-existent album is stupid, and needs to find a
dictionary fast. It has nothing to do with homosexuals, heterosexuals,
or any other -sexuals. It has to do with Trent Reznor. Period.
I'm sick of this. Take it to personal email or whatever newsgroup you
think is appropriate, but get it off this one, because it has nothing
to do with industrial music, or even to do with this newsgroup in a
meta-discussion sort of way. Nothing.
--
- Adam J Weitzman
INDIVIDUAL, Inc.
weit...@individual.com
Disclaimer: The above are my views, not necessarily those of my employer.
Robert Horton
>
> In <traig.s.foltz....@foltz.edmedia.nd.edu> traig.s...@nd.edu (traig scott foltz) writes:
>
> >In article <1994May23...@vxdesy.desy.de>, spi...@vxdesy.desy.de
> >wrote:
> >> I don't read the total news group but you can be sure that I will criticize
> >> homophobic remarks whereever I see them. My conviction is that heterosexual
> >> and homosexual people should stand together against discrimination.
> >> I think that discrimination of people can never be funny if it is discrimimi-
> >> nation because of their sexual orientation (I hope this is the right word),
> >> because the colour of their skin or because being foreigner or because being
> >> women or whatever.
> >>
> >> Ansgar
>
> >SOUNDS LIKE Y'ALL THINK YOURE THE THOUGHT POLICE, EVERYTHING IS FUNNY,
> >EVERYTHING IS RUINED, EVERYTHING IS FREE. THE ONLY THING REQUIRED IN THIS
> >LIFE IS THAT YOU BE STRONG ENOUGH TO DEFEND YOURE WAY OF LIFE BECAUSE NO
> >MATTER WHO OR WHAT YOU ARE YOU WILL BE ATTACKED AT ONE POINT OR ANOTHER.
> >WE ARE ALL MINORITIES SO JUST GET SOME THICK SKIN AND STICK YOUR
> >POLITICALLY CORRECT PROPAGANDA UP YOUR ASS, IF YOU ARE DIFFERENT YOU WILL
> >PAY THE PRICE THAT'S JUST HOW IT IS. GET USED TO IT AND STOP WHINNING, PRAY
> >TO THE FLAME AND DON'T EVER TAKE IT PERSONALLY BECAUSE IF YOU DO, WELL THEN
> >YOU JUST LOST.....
>
> Well, I don't know if all instances of "criticizing homophobic remarks"
> are equal to "POLITICALLY CORRECT PROPAGANDA" or "WHINNING [sic],"
> a comparison that was implicit above.
>
> I can have a "THICK SKIN" and "DEFEND MY WAY OF LIFE" by asserting that
> "I think that discrimination of people can never be funny." So I don't
> see why all the hostility, traig: Ansgar was just doing what you were
> suggesting.
>
> Greg
>
>
>
I don't think having a thick skin is a good idea, the Germans who went along with Hitler and claimed ignorance had a thick skin. and we are not all in for the same level of attack, that is bullshit. blacks, gays, black gays, women are attacked in physical ways that can leave them dead. lets face it that isn't as tru for white straight males.
rock...@terapin.com "contraria sunt complementa"
Beast of Eden
>I don't think having a thick skin is a good idea, the Germans who went
>along with Hitler and claimed ignorance had a thick skin. and we are not
>all in for the same level of attack, that is bullshit. blacks, gays, black
>gays, women are attacked in physical ways that can leave them dead. lets
>face it that isn't as tru for white straight males.
Very nice Robert, that earns you 10 brownie points!
Now, can you say "White Liberal Guilt"? <G>
BOE
Mason Jones
:
: So I'm homophobia-phobic? Well excuse me but it has been 25 years since
: Stonewall (look it up) and we still aren't legal in 24 of the states. Only
: 5 states have any anti-discrimination laws. Several cities and one state
: have recinded ordinances. Gay marriage is illegal (regardless of delusional
: people who say they are married),
Well, gay marriage is a bit more than delusional here in San Francisco,
although widespread recognition is still hopeless. It does at least
provide a few rights here which are similar to hetero marriages.
Take pleasure in those small victories...
<====================================================================>
Mason Jones Charnel Music
ma...@netcom.com P.O. Box 170277, San Francisco, CA
94117-0277 Phone/fax (415) 664-1829
Web catalog: http://web.cps.msu.edu/~cookeri1/charnel.catalog.html
<====================================================================>