Coldwave vs. Darkwave
YourName
Can somebody please tell me what the difference between Coldwave and
Darkwave industrial is, if there is any? Also, what are the origins of
these terms and their respective groups (ie, who started it all)? Thanks
in advance.
--Apollyon
bnw
In article <199804280243...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
toms...@aol.com (Tom Shear) wrote:
>Coldwave is the gee-tar based industrial fusion them american kiddies seem to
>eat up, while Darkwave is more of a hybrid of electroindustrial and goth
>styles... I'm being overly general, but that's the basic difference...
You forgot TidalWave, that gum you bite into and all this overly sweet
juice spills into your mouth. That stuff was (is) pretty gross.
flail
--
bnw...@artsci.wustl.edu
"Conditioned to self interest with emotions locked away,
if that's what they call normal, I'd rather be insane." -operation ivy
Tom Shear
>>Can somebody please tell me what the difference between Coldwave >>and
Darkwave industrial is, if there is any? Also, what are the origins >>of these
terms and their respective groups (ie, who started it all)? >>Thanks in
advance.
Coldwave is the gee-tar based industrial fusion them american kiddies seem to
eat up, while Darkwave is more of a hybrid of electroindustrial and goth
styles... I'm being overly general, but that's the basic difference...
--Tom
Assemblage 23
-----------------------------------------------------------
"I don't want to be some big, brown hole." - Scott Sturgis
-----------------------------------------------------------
"You must be the pot and the kettle." - Goat Boy
===========================================================
Visit the Assemblage 23 Home Page:
http://members.aol.com/tomshear/private/tomshear1.html
Hemlock
So this bnw character tells us...
> >eat up, while Darkwave is more of a hybrid of electroindustrial and goth
> >styles... I'm being overly general, but that's the basic difference...
>
> juice spills into your mouth. That stuff was (is) pretty gross.
And who could forget Permanent Wave?
Mainly seen in Sunset Strip rock clubs still wearing spandex and leopard
print, PW is a style of music which features guitars and generally high
pitched vocals singing about girls and cars, among other such
intellectually stimulating subjects. Signs to look for are big hair,
bright colors, scarves, and skin tight clothing. Make up is optional.
Hemlock
Follow the Black Valley Trail of Death,
Into the Beautiful Sunshine...
hemlock(at)kontrol.com
ICQ # 2629119 goth.code available if you ask really nicely.
<note: replace .gov with .com in the From: address to e-mail>
Skarekroe
:And who could forget Permanent Wave?
:print, PW is a style of music which features guitars and generally high
:pitched vocals singing about girls and cars, among other such
:intellectually stimulating subjects. Signs to look for are big hair,
:bright colors, scarves, and skin tight clothing. Make up is optional.
has anyone else noticed young ladies at their local goth/industrial dance
venues sporting ultratight trousers once again? they either have no business
trying to pull the look off, or they look like refugees from 1988.
or both.
sk
"trying is the first step toward failing" (_8(|)
Hydro
Tom Shear wrote:
>
> Coldwave is the gee-tar based industrial fusion them american kiddies
> seem to eat up, while Darkwave is more of a hybrid of
> electroindustrial and goth styles... I'm being overly general, but
> that's the basic difference...
That's not really that general. As you said, coldwave is the subgenre
that includes guitar. It's referred to as industrial rock, or guitar
crossover. Some examples include 16 Volt, Pig, and Skold.
Darkwave is a little trickier. What I've heard is really light, not
quite ambient but sort of a medium between IDM, techno, EBM, and
experimental. It has rhythm to it, but it's not as flowing as ambient or
IDM. Nor is it as beaty or rhythm-based as EBM or techno. And it's more
conventional than experimental. If you can picture it, go for it. Let
this be a lesson that you cannot describe music that well with words.
Oh, and a good example would be something like Holocaust Theory. Damn
good.
Bat
In article <35453E...@grove.iup.edu>, YourName
<User...@grove.iup.edu> wrote:
> Can somebody please tell me what the difference between Coldwave and
> Darkwave industrial is, if there is any? Also, what are the origins of
> these terms and their respective groups (ie, who started it all)? Thanks
> in advance.
>
> --Apollyon
Totally different spectrum.
Coldwave = Guitars, chuga chuga chuga, some electronics.
Darkwave = Mixture of gothic and almost ambient with heavy emphasis on
electronic and overtones of classical music structure. Can be heavy beat
but no guitars, not 'jockular' oriented as coldwave can be.
--
The CyberDen http://www.cyberden.com/
Digital Wings CD is now out! http://www.cyberden.com/digital
House Of Usher http://www.cyberden.com/usher
Custom Music and Sound Design http://www.cyberden.com/ic
*** LEGAL NOTICE: All parties involved in sending any spam to any
account at the cyberden.com domain will be fined $500 per item.
By US Code Title 47, Sec.227(a)(2)(B),(b)(1)(C),(b)(3)(C).
Don Muerte
Hydro wrote:
>
> Darkwave is a little trickier. What I've heard is really light, not
> quite ambient but sort of a medium between IDM, techno, EBM, and
> experimental. It has rhythm to it, but it's not as flowing as ambient or
> IDM. Nor is it as beaty or rhythm-based as EBM or techno. And it's more
> conventional than experimental. If you can picture it, go for it. Let
> this be a lesson that you cannot describe music that well with words.
> Oh, and a good example would be something like Holocaust Theory. Damn
> good.
Not a bad definition. It's been said that Minus Habens is one of the
premiere darkwave record labels of the present. It's my experience that
darkwave came about from the workings of stuff like Leaether Strip -
Nothing Seen, Nothing Done although modified even further from that
electro/EBM-ish format.
--
Live long and prosper,
- 'Coffee'
-- Have your mind tingled and receive --
-- unlimited pleasure: --
-- 'n3ur0c0r3.cach3' --
-- http://members.aol.com/xbaconbitz/dragons.html --
** Dive: http://members.aol.com/tl7705/ **
Lars Casteen
Hydro wrote:
> Tom Shear wrote:
> >
> > Coldwave is the gee-tar based industrial fusion them american kiddies
> > seem to eat up, while Darkwave is more of a hybrid of
> > electroindustrial and goth styles... I'm being overly general, but
> > that's the basic difference...
> > --Tom
>
> That's not really that general. As you said, coldwave is the subgenre
> that includes guitar. It's referred to as industrial rock, or guitar
> crossover. Some examples include 16 Volt, Pig, and Skold.
> Darkwave is a little trickier. What I've heard is really light, not
> quite ambient but sort of a medium between IDM, techno, EBM, and
> experimental. It has rhythm to it, but it's not as flowing as ambient or
> IDM. Nor is it as beaty or rhythm-based as EBM or techno. And it's more
> conventional than experimental. If you can picture it, go for it. Let
> this be a lesson that you cannot describe music that well with words.
> Oh, and a good example would be something like Holocaust Theory. Damn
> good.
I was under the impression that darkwave simply meant "black metal." I thought
it was a fusion of goth and metal. Am I making any sense? What the hell am I
talking about?
--
Lars
N.Scott Kozyra
On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 22:28:33 -0400, YourName <User...@grove.iup.edu>
wrote:
>Can somebody please tell me what the difference between Coldwave and
>Darkwave industrial is, if there is any? Also, what are the origins of
>these terms and their respective groups (ie, who started it all)? Thanks
>in advance.
>
...you laugh when you hear the word "darkwave," and with
coldwave...well, you just laugh. A lot.
Gravity Kills is my new favorite band.
oh, on the subject: Rorschach (??) Test sucks.
n.scott kozyra
rosewicked
(erik gloom)
N.Scott Kozyra
On Tue, 28 Apr 1998 21:09:09 -0400, Lars Casteen <la...@comet.net>
wrote:
> I was under the impression that darkwave simply meant "black metal." I thought
>it was a fusion of goth and metal. Am I making any sense? What the hell am I
>talking about?
Good question. What the hell *are* you talking about.
...no, darkwave is almost anti-metal. It's going in a very
ambient/d'n'b direction now. It has always sort have followed the
techno scene with a 6-12 month lag.
MofoChickn
I understand your definition of coldwave (thanks) but what the hell is IDM and
EBM? I've heard both terms before but don't really have a clue as to what they
are..
Jason.
Rev. Derek
Lars Casteen wrote:
>
> I was under the impression that darkwave simply meant "black metal." I thought
> it was a fusion of goth and metal. Am I making any sense? What the hell am I
> talking about?
>
> Lars
It sounds like you mean "DeathRock"...
Skarekroe
:I understand your definition of coldwave (thanks) but what the hell is IDM
:and
:EBM?
idm would be "intelligent dace music" (i'm right, right?) like autechre or
download. wacky beats, semi-experimental.
ebm would be "electronic body music" (i think. damn these abbreviations!) like
front 242 or, i dunno, covenant. strong beat heavy pure electronic stuff with
vocals.
there are plenty of other people on this newsgroup who could doubtless help you
out more, but i tried.
N.Scott Kozyra
On 29 Apr 1998 07:49:57 GMT, mofoc...@aol.com (MofoChickn) wrote:
>I understand your definition of coldwave (thanks) but what the hell is IDM and
>EBM? I've heard both terms before but don't really have a clue as to what they
>are..
>
IDM is intelligent dance music (or at least it used to be) Basically,
the majority of dance music out there today is a poor attempt to
emulate earlier IDM (some Aphex Twin, some u-ziq, lost not found,
occassionally autechre, etc.)
EBM evolved from older stuff like Front 242 (the originators), Nitzer
Ebb, and now includes, by definition, most industrial music.
little miss stacey
YourName wrote:
> Can somebody please tell me what the difference between Coldwave and
> Darkwave industrial is, if there is any?
Yes, there is a difference
> Also, what are the origins of
> these terms and their respective groups (ie, who started it all)? Thanks
> in advance.
I don't know where Darkwave comes from, but the first reference I saw to
Coldwave was from 21st Circuitry Records. So I would gather they are both
really a Marketing Term (tm). 21st Circuitry defined Coldwave as industrial
with clear vocals. I don't think that means guitars necessarily. I think
you will find most bands from that label fit into the Coldwave 'sound'.
I've never heard a good example of Darkwave. When I first heard the term I
was told it's 'supposed' to be a mix between goth and industrial. I think
it is a bit scattered on what bands constitute darkwave. I've been told
Aurora is darkwave, but they sounded more goth to me. Preferably I like
listening to a few bands off the Cold Meat Industry label and thinking of
that as darkwave.
Furthermore, as a result of these companies throwing around names, I'm much
more apt now to name a certain style of music by the label rather than the
marketing term. Or you can always hear me referring to CMI as scandinavian
darkwave...
.s
abfackeln
Lars Casteen wrote:
>
> Hydro wrote:
>
> > Tom Shear wrote:
> > >
> > > Coldwave is the gee-tar based industrial fusion them american kiddies
> > > seem to eat up, while Darkwave is more of a hybrid of
> > > electroindustrial and goth styles... I'm being overly general, but
> > > that's the basic difference...
> > > --Tom
> >
> > That's not really that general. As you said, coldwave is the subgenre
> > that includes guitar. It's referred to as industrial rock, or guitar
> > crossover. Some examples include 16 Volt, Pig, and Skold.
> > Darkwave is a little trickier. What I've heard is really light, not
> > quite ambient but sort of a medium between IDM, techno, EBM, and
> > experimental. It has rhythm to it, but it's not as flowing as ambient or
> > IDM. Nor is it as beaty or rhythm-based as EBM or techno. And it's more
> > conventional than experimental. If you can picture it, go for it. Let
> > this be a lesson that you cannot describe music that well with words.
> > Oh, and a good example would be something like Holocaust Theory. Damn
> > good.
>
> it was a fusion of goth and metal. Am I making any sense? What the hell am I
> talking about?
darkwave and black metal are very very very very very very very very
very very very very very very very very very very very very very very
very very very very very different
black metal is bands like venom and slayer .. darkwave is ambient,
gothic, 'ethereal' .. like that track from loves secret domain 'dark
river' .. they arent even on the same planet, let alone the same
ballpark
.dsa. 242023
ArseN
abfackeln wrote in message <3547851A...@ranch.org>...
>black metal is bands like venom and slayer ..
umm, no..that is glam or shock rock. Black Metal is bands like Burzum,
mostly from Scandinavia, hence the term Norwegian Black Metal. Usually
these groups claim to be Satanist or Asatru, and use scandinavian lore as
the basis for songs. Check out http://www.optera.com/~gothmog/varg.html to
read about Vark Vikernes, the leader of one of these groups, and the act
that put him into prison (killing the leader of another band, setting fire
to Scandinavian stave churches, etc)
ArseN
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Club/1896
Dark Areas Music Network
Don Muerte
ArseN wrote:
>
> abfackeln wrote in message <3547851A...@ranch.org>...
>
> >black metal is bands like venom and slayer ..
>
> umm, no..that is glam or shock rock. Black Metal is bands like Burzum,
> mostly from Scandinavia, hence the term Norwegian Black Metal. Usually
> these groups claim to be Satanist or Asatru, and use scandinavian lore as
> the basis for songs. Check out http://www.optera.com/~gothmog/varg.html to
> read about Vark Vikernes, the leader of one of these groups, and the act
> that put him into prison (killing the leader of another band, setting fire
> to Scandinavian stave churches, etc)
Also, Cold Meat Industry has a few Black Metal bands like Maschinzimmer
412.
Tom Grainger
> black metal is bands like venom and slayer .. darkwave is ambient,
> gothic, 'ethereal' .. like that track from loves secret domain 'dark
> river' .. they arent even on the same planet, let alone the same
> ballpark
>
> .dsa. 242023
I was of the impression, at least as far as various Nuclear Blast US
compilations would lead me to believe, that black metal was the more
atmospheric, symphonic cousin to standard and death metal...mostly the
product of European bands like England's Cradle of Filth, Skandinavians
like Theatre of Tragedy, Dimmu Borgir, etc etc. It's usually melodic
metal, often with gothic-influenced keyboard work and vocals...but hey,
that's just me. Some of it's superb stuff (Poland's Sirrah springs to
mind), whereas some of it's just overly melodramatic screechy stuff, a
la CoF. It's dilemnas like this that reveal the weaknesses of genre
categories, I guess.
J
np: PWEI
Mr. Tangent
On Wed, 29 Apr 1998 12:41:12 -0700, the aliens commanded little miss
stacey <jac...@ix.netcom.com> to write:
>I've never heard a good example of Darkwave. When I first heard the term I
>was told it's 'supposed' to be a mix between goth and industrial. I think
>it is a bit scattered on what bands constitute darkwave. I've been told
>Aurora is darkwave, but they sounded more goth to me. Preferably I like
>listening to a few bands off the Cold Meat Industry label and thinking of
>that as darkwave.
Certainly quite a few of the CMI bands could be loosely defined as
Darkwave, as could a few of Projekt's bands. I would like to think
that the perfect definition of darkwave is the band Oneiroid
Psychosis. Either them or Das Ich. Basically it's moody, atmospheric
post-industrial music meets ambient, with slight gothic overtones (in
the case of Oneiroid Psychosis, would be the vocals). Creepy,
chilling and ominous. Regardless, other people might have a slightly
different rendition of this definition. I've noticed that a lot of
terms are not universal and have subjective interpretations that vary
from person to person and country to country.
--
Mr. Tangent [the binary police]
Skarekroe
:>black metal is bands like venom and slayer ..
:umm, no..that is glam or shock rock. Black Metal is bands like Burzum,
:mostly from Scandinavia, hence the term Norwegian Black Metal. Usually
:these groups claim to be Satanist or Asatru, and use scandinavian lore as
:the basis for songs.
imagine death metal, but instead of deep growly monster vocals they use higher
pitched growly monster vocals.
abfackeln
>
> umm, no..that is glam or shock rock. Black Metal is bands like Burzum,
> mostly from Scandinavia, hence the term Norwegian Black Metal. Usually
> these groups claim to be Satanist or Asatru, and use scandinavian lore as
> read about Vark Vikernes, the leader of one of these groups, and the act
> that put him into prison (killing the leader of another band, setting fire
> to Scandinavian stave churches, etc)
i agree that burzum et al are black metal, but about venom and slayer
not being so, i disagree .. it seems to me that you are unfamiliar with
'venom' .. i think that another problem here is that 'norwegian black
metal' and 'black metal' are not the same thing either .. i think that
you will find that venom coined the phrase 'black metal' in about 1982
or something and this was the title of one of their early albums ..
granted they may suck now, but thats beside the point .. they were black
metal before anyone else was
and, in case you arent aware, venom and slayer are certainly satanist
even if they may have chilled out over the years (ie. maybe they arent
anymore) .. just take a look at their album covers (particularly any
venom album) .. ya, sure, they are old and quite often they look like
they were posing for the camera, but thats how things used to be .. the
newer bands now have certainly refined the style (and the norwegians
certainly do take it a lot more seriously) and it is not so hokey as it
was then, but that too is beside the point
i was aware of varg already .. but this style of music evolved from
bands like venom and slayer, believe it or not .. you have to keep in
mind that they are 15 year old bands .. in their day, they were just as
much black metal as the bands you speak of are today .. except that
there wasnt as much of a following for this style of music then as there
is in certain places today
so maybe my original comment was out of date .. but i dont think it was
entirely inaccurate .. things change, yes .. but i dont believe that
venom or slayer deserve to be in the same category as ozzy osbourne or
motley crue or whatever just because they are old
.dsa. 242023
Shadowdancer
Well it depends what 'darkwave' you are talking about. I have seen a lot
of beat oriented Darkwave... some of it rather cheesy, some of it rather
good. Some examples that I can think of at the moment are Seelenkrank,
Fortification 55, Crown of Jesus, even The Dust of Basement, in a way.
Midnight Configuration I think can be classified as this also. I have
heard some REALLY HEAVY darkwave. Projekt wants to consider their stuff
'darkwave' only to get away from the 'ethereal' or 'gothic' label. But as
far as I'm concerned, they are rather ethereal. Some people that I have
spoken with also consider Athamay, Die Form, Nekromantik, Soil and Eclipse,
and Suspiria darkwave. Most I think would consider Athamay and Die Form to
be fetish (?) and Suspiria and Nekromantik I can see... but I'd rather
consider them gothic with few real instruments... mostly synths and a drum
machine. I think Soil and Eclipse was said to be 'electro goth' or
something like that.
--
http://www-scf.usc.edu/~alanis
Gwei-lo
abfackeln wrote in message <3548B425...@ranch.org>...
Venom, Slayer, and other bands of that sort had nothing to do with the
Church of Satan, they just used its imagery for shock value. The Church of
Satan does not recognise bands like this as being Satanists.
--
Gwei-lo,
clown prince of crime
np: Coil- "Horse Rotorvator"
Shadowdancer
Stuart McAndrew
Skarekroe wrote:
>
> imagine death metal, but instead of deep growly monster vocals they use higher
> pitched growly monster vocals.
Just for anyone who's interested - Black metal has Satanic lyrics (or Viking
tales). It is generally faster for longer than death metal is. The guitar
playing is more technical than death metal bands aim for.
And most of it is crud.
--
Regards,
Stuart McAndrew Tel: +44 1355 565 000
SITD Product Marketing Assistant Fax: +44 1355 242 743
"Hype the waste - flavoured insecticide.
Like the taste - don't question what's inside" - Pitchshifter
Stuart McAndrew
Tom Grainger wrote:
> I was of the impression, at least as far as various Nuclear Blast US
> compilations would lead me to believe, that black metal was the more
> atmospheric, symphonic cousin to standard and death metal...mostly the
> product of European bands like England's Cradle of Filth, Skandinavians
> like Theatre of Tragedy, Dimmu Borgir, etc etc. It's usually melodic
> metal, often with gothic-influenced keyboard work and vocals...but hey,
> that's just me. Some of it's superb stuff (Poland's Sirrah springs to
> mind), whereas some of it's just overly melodramatic screechy stuff, a
> la CoF. It's dilemnas like this that reveal the weaknesses of genre
> categories, I guess.
I thought all of it was overly melodramatic screechy stuff....
Melodic is definately something I havn't heard in most Black Metal bands music..
BTW, CoF instruementals from "Principile of Evil Made Flesh" - would these be Darkwave?
www.thepigeonhole.com
There is alot of bad Industrial music out there as well. Some Black Metal is
total Crud, but there are some really good bands out there as well.
I tend to listen to Doom Metal more than Black Metal, it's slower and
more melodic. Some really good bands include Therion, Theatre of Tragedy(dark
shakespearean opera music with a metal twist), Samuael(fast metal/industrial with
pounding beats and angelic background music), Dissection, In Flames(moreless of
the Viking tales type but semifast with incredible detail devoted to the technical aspect
on the guitar side). These bands are incredibly talented.
Stuart McAndrew <r41...@email.sps.mot.com> wrote in article
<354D7934...@email.sps.mot.com>...
> Skarekroe wrote:
> >
> > imagine death metal, but instead of deep growly monster vocals they use higher
> > pitched growly monster vocals.
>
> Just for anyone who's interested - Black metal has Satanic lyrics (or Viking
> tales). It is generally faster for longer than death metal is. The guitar
> playing is more technical than death metal bands aim for.
>
> And most of it is crud.
egarrett hamline edu
In article <354D8603...@email.sps.mot.com>, Stuart McAndrew <r41...@email.sps.mot.com> says:
>> I was of the impression, at least as far as various Nuclear Blast US
>> compilations would lead me to believe, that black metal was the more
>> atmospheric, symphonic cousin to standard and death metal...mostly the
>> product of European bands like England's Cradle of Filth, Skandinavians
>> like Theatre of Tragedy, Dimmu Borgir, etc etc. It's usually melodic
>> metal, often with gothic-influenced keyboard work and vocals...but hey,
>> that's just me. Some of it's superb stuff (Poland's Sirrah springs to
>> mind), whereas some of it's just overly melodramatic screechy stuff, a
>> la CoF. It's dilemnas like this that reveal the weaknesses of genre
>> categories, I guess.
>I thought all of it was overly melodramatic screechy stuff....
Remember the explosion of every little lousy punk band in the eighties?
same thing here.
>Melodic is definately something I havn't heard in most Black Metal bands music..
not on the surface, at least.
>BTW, CoF instruementals from "Principile of Evil Made Flesh" - would these be Darkwave?
er, the classical piano bits? No.
--
| All the swans have left /^in hoc Cygno vinces^\
_|_ and now it's just cold. http://www.hamline.edu/~egarrett/
O http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/9978/