Does Trent Reznor *ever* have an original idea in his head?
Greg Earle
vital record was released in a decade that isn't the current or most recent,
sitting on a chair with silly horn-rim glasses on and saying "Here's the new
Nine Inch Nails video, `Closer'" ...
With that, we plunge head-long into Trent's newest video opus, and immediately
several things become evident; the most telling is that this guy wouldn't
know a new video idea if it kicked him upside the head.
Can we play "Name that influence"? Let's ...
First up, we've got a monkey on a cross! Good, Trent, my wife's album cover
("Stereotaxic Device", Kk Records) only beat you to that concept by, oh, 4
years now. Next?
Oh look, a severed rotating pig's head! Been hanging out with Foetus, I see?
Hey look! A still-life with Trent's head depicted in a gross fashion as if he'd
been decapitated! The general sepiatone etched-plate motif! Guess you really
liked that Joel-Peter Witkin exhibit that's in L.A. now, eh Trent?
Why look, the whole thing's filmed in sepiatone with lotsa dust and then
there's the creaky pulley bit ... guess the video store finally got that
Brothers Quay compilation video in for Trent to rent ... and I'm sure watching
those Tool videos didn't hurt, either ...
The scary thing is that some kids out there might actually think this stuff
is "new" and "original" or something ...
Not amused,
--
- Greg Earle
Phone: (818) 353-8695 FAX: (818) 353-1877 [Call # again if
Internet: ea...@isolar.Tujunga.CA.US you get !FAX tone]
UUCP: isolar!ea...@elroy.JPL.NASA.GOV a.k.a. ...!elroy!isolar!earle
Beast of Eden
>- Greg Earle
Are you ever amused? <G>
BOE
Dan Cohen
>
>While channel-surfing late last night, I came upon some old geezer whose last
>vital record was released in a decade that isn't the current or most recent,
>sitting on a chair with silly horn-rim glasses on and saying "Here's the new
>Nine Inch Nails video, `Closer'" ...
>
>With that, we plunge head-long into Trent's newest video opus, and immediately
>several things become evident; the most telling is that this guy wouldn't
>know a new video idea if it kicked him upside the head.
>
>Can we play "Name that influence"? Let's ...
>
>First up, we've got a monkey on a cross! Good, Trent, my wife's album cover
>("Stereotaxic Device", Kk Records) only beat you to that concept by, oh, 4
>years now. Next?
You're wife must influence a LOT of people. I know that I never would have
even THOUGHT about putting a monkey on a cross until I saw that album cover
pinned up ALL over the DC area (now was that the album that also inspired
Nirvana to put an monkey on their album, right?).
>Oh look, a severed rotating pig's head! Been hanging out with Foetus, I see?
Or reading Lord of the Flies or seeing many other things. Oohh!!! A crime!
>Hey look! A still-life with Trent's head depicted in a gross fashion as if he'd
>been decapitated! The general sepiatone etched-plate motif! Guess you really
>liked that Joel-Peter Witkin exhibit that's in L.A. now, eh Trent?
This guys starting to remind me of something John S. Hall of King Missile
wrote (and I won't name the song so even I can sound important!):
I am a sensitive artist.
Nobody understands me because I am so deep.
In my work I make allusions to books that nobody else has read,
Music that nobody else has heard,
And art that nobody else has seen.
I can't help it
Because I am so much more intelligent
And well-rounded
Than everyone who surrounds me.
>Why look, the whole thing's filmed in sepiatone with lotsa dust and then
>there's the creaky pulley bit ... guess the video store finally got that
>Brothers Quay compilation video in for Trent to rent ... and I'm sure watching
>those Tool videos didn't hurt, either ...
See above.
>The scary thing is that some kids out there might actually think this stuff
>is "new" and "original" or something ...
The scary thing is, that someone might decide to squash an idea that someone
wants to introduce to the masses that might not be able to be delivered in
any other form. I have no idea who your wife is, who Joel-Peter Witkin is
(because I'm not an art fan), and I've never heard (or seen) anything by
the Brothers Quay. Am I a moron (or something)? I don't want to sound too
pathetic, but there really is nothing that is original when it comes to
symbolism. Things are just presented in a new way. If it's a monkey on a
cross, an old man on a cross, or your favorite artist on a cross, they are
all trying to say something using a similar theme. After all, what's the
point of using original symbolism if no one will understand it (unless that
is the point)?
>Not amused,
>
>--
>- Greg Earle
You sound like the Grouchy Old Man character on Saturday Night Live. Just
be quiet.
-Dan Cohen
I'm not gonna touch the Elvis remark.
M.Montgomery
: >Not amused,
: >- Greg Earle
Not intended as a flame becasue I too don't care for Mr. Reznor much.... BUT
There are no original ideas out there anyway. The concept of originality
being something inherent in Art is a "Modern" concept anyway. You never
saw people like Shakespeare or Chauver caring about how "original" they
were. They were always ripping off old stories. I love Gothic revival
buildings of the 19th century and they were hardly "original".
The point was not how original the story was but how well it was retold!
A more valid complaint against Mr. Reznor might be that he failed to
fully utilize the symbols and visual images in a completely satisfying
way for you -- the viewer.
Nothimg is new.
--
Maria Montgomery ma...@netcom.com
Kevin O' Gorman
>The point was not how original the story was but how well it was retold!
>A more valid complaint against Mr. Reznor might be that he failed to
>fully utilize the symbols and visual images in a completely satisfying
>way for you -- the viewer.
Or it could be that he failed to use them in an original way, that
he just threw them out as cool things to put in the video.
"Uhh...pigs head there...yeah..."
K.
-
--
Shine like Thundah! Get down! Shine like thundah! Get down! Shine like Thundah
!!Cry like Rain! Cry like Rain! Cry like rain! Cry like Rain! Cry like Rain!!!
!!!!Get down! Shine like Thundah! Get down! Shine like Thundah get down!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!I am spidey I am at maths which is at tcd which is at ie!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Matthe...@cs.cmu.edu
-Matt
Howard Cheng
>While channel-surfing late last night, I came upon some old geezer whose last
>vital record was released in a decade that isn't the current or most recent,
>sitting on a chair with silly horn-rim glasses on and saying "Here's the new
>Nine Inch Nails video, `Closer'" ...
>
>With that, we plunge head-long into Trent's newest video opus, and immediately
>several things become evident; the most telling is that this guy wouldn't
>know a new video idea if it kicked him upside the head.
>
>Can we play "Name that influence"? Let's ...
>
Not to mention Joy Division's influence on the name of the
song.....Well, that may or may not be true... hard to prove I suppose.
>First up, we've got a monkey on a cross! Good, Trent, my wife's album cover
>("Stereotaxic Device", Kk Records) only beat you to that concept by, oh, 4
>years now. Next?
>
>Oh look, a severed rotating pig's head! Been hanging out with Foetus, I see?
>
>Hey look! A still-life with Trent's head depicted in a gross fashion as if he'd
>been decapitated! The general sepiatone etched-plate motif! Guess you really
>liked that Joel-Peter Witkin exhibit that's in L.A. now, eh Trent?
>
>Why look, the whole thing's filmed in sepiatone with lotsa dust and then
>there's the creaky pulley bit ... guess the video store finally got that
>Brothers Quay compilation video in for Trent to rent ... and I'm sure watching
>those Tool videos didn't hurt, either ...
>
>The scary thing is that some kids out there might actually think this stuff
>is "new" and "original" or something ...
Of course,*nothing* is new or original today. *Everything* is cliche.
Especially what we say.
Howard
Heather Moore
In article <Ihz91He00...@cs.cmu.edu>, Matthe...@cs.cmu.edu writes:
|> Pretty Hate Machine was original, everything else has been pretty bad.
|>
|>
|> -Matt
|>
I agree... I think he used up all of his angst-filled creativity on that one
album, and now there's nothing left...
-Heather
Beast of Eden
I didn't write that, I was quoting Greg Earle. Once again, y'all, keep
your attributions straight!
BOE
Kontrol Faktory
: With that, we plunge head-long into Trent's newest video opus, and immediately
: several things become evident; the most telling is that this guy wouldn't
: know a new video idea if it kicked him upside the head.
I highly doubt that Trent had all that much to do with the video in the
first place. I'm sure he just hired someone and said "make me a cool
video", and went back up to his big fucking house in the hills, grabbed a
budweiser, and sat by the pool.
MI>E
Dave Dalle
In a previous article, Matthe...@cs.cmu.edu () says:
>Pretty Hate Machine was original, everything else has been pretty bad.
Why do so many people think PHM is an incredible, ground-breaking album.
I listened to the damn thing again straight through, because a friend of
mine heard it for the first time and he is also swept away with it. The
music is very boring, nothing new or interesting, like a harsher Roxette.
It must be the lyrics that everyone is caught up with. Yeah, some of them
are cool, but I'm sure most people who like PHM think his lyrics are
really deep and brilliant. They probably identify with them on a personal
level. Well, fine for them. It's still a shitty album, you might as well
go listen to Visage, it's about as brilliant.
Dave
--
True connoisseurs of poetry have been at all times and in all places
exactly so rare as true poets themselves. -Lessing
All the above opinions are Papal Bull and therefore infallible.
The Great Grendel-Khan
>In article <2thgkt$2...@isolar.Tujunga.CA.US> ea...@isolar.Tujunga.CA.US (Greg Earle) writes:
>>"Here's the new Nine Inch Nails video, `Closer'" ...
>>Can we play "Name that influence"? Let's ...
>Not to mention Joy Division's influence on the name of the
>song.....Well, that may or may not be true... hard to prove I suppose.
Hard to prove, but not hard to imagine. NiN just did a JD cover for
the Crow soundtrack, so it isn't that far of a stretch.
I'm off to work on a new book. I think I'll call it Moby Dick.
--
nothing clever for now, but i am in a lot better health for those that care.
Susan Roston
Greg Earle <ea...@isolar.Tujunga.CA.US> wrote:
>
>Oh look, a severed rotating pig's head! Been hanging out with Foetus, I see?
and I am sure foetus got that from the writer of the lord of the flies who got
that from some tribal ritual or other. . . .
>
>The scary thing is that some kids out there might actually think this stuff
>is "new" and "original" or something ...
the scary thing is how much people can't take things with a grain fo salt. I
think the influences were no doubt intentional in that the video seemed silly
as all hell to me. I was laughing as I watched the end of it. anyone else
agree??
>
>Not amused,
>
>--
>- Greg Earle
> Phone: (818) 353-8695 FAX: (818) 353-1877 [Call # again if
> Internet: ea...@isolar.Tujunga.CA.US you get !FAX tone]
> UUCP: isolar!ea...@elroy.JPL.NASA.GOV a.k.a. ...!elroy!isolar!earle
you work for the government don't you??
mike roston--ending
Susan Roston
>Pretty Hate Machine was original, everything else has been pretty bad.
>
no, PHM was far from original. he draws from a lot of electro-pop influences
including grandaddy al's earliest ministry as well as other stuff like that(ie
erasure, DM, etc which he has admitted to being a fan of). it doen't mean it
is all bad(although some of it sucks), it is just not completely original.
--mike roston--ending
Neil Ajit Kothari
>: several things become evident; the most telling is that this guy wouldn't
>: know a new video idea if it kicked him upside the head.
Oh give me a break. Who cares if the video is original or not anyway? It's a
good video regardless of whether he borrowed ideas from other people or not.
And that should be all that anyone cares about on this group, or so I thought.
neil.
----------
Neil Kothari "Or do you want your conscience raised?" - The Beloved
8B3 Hartley Hall "I only kill to know I'm alive" - Ministry INXSINXSINXS
1116 Amsterdam Ave. Internet - na...@columbia.edu Phone - 212 853 2221
New York, NY 10027 DJ, Transfigured Night, WKCR-FM NY 89.9, Thurs morn. 1-5am
Philip Sainty
Greg Earle <ea...@isolar.Tujunga.CA.US> wrote:
[a lot of stuff about how unoriginal Trent Reznor's videos are]
One question: who directed the video?
undertow
garnered rave reviews from every magazine, newspaper in the nation... yeah
okay, whatever... so what are you on and where can i get some?
A.
ivegonetoofaricantturnbackivegonetoofaricantturnbackivegonetoofaricantturnback
andrew dallons @ tun...@academic.csubak.edu i've found you can find happiness
cal state university bakersfield (whoopie!) in slavery - Reznor, Halo 5.5
erasemeeraseme*rasemee*ase*eer*sem*er*******as***e****m*****e*****************
undertow
Nothing is original.
Life feeds on life.
This is necessary.
This is necessary.
A.
undertow
>While channel-surfing late last night, I came upon some old geezer whose last
>vital record was released in a decade that isn't the current or most recent,
>sitting on a chair with silly horn-rim glasses on and saying "Here's the new
>Nine Inch Nails video, `Closer'" ...
Well, there ya go... don't even know Elvis Costello when ya see him. You
should be shot once for that, my friend.
>With that, we plunge head-long into Trent's newest video opus, and immediately
>several things become evident; the most telling is that this guy wouldn't
>know a new video idea if it kicked him upside the head.
How many new video ideas do YOU have? Please tell us... you seem so smart
and educated.
>
>Can we play "Name that influence"? Let's ...
>
>First up, we've got a monkey on a cross! Good, Trent, my wife's album cover
>("Stereotaxic Device", Kk Records) only beat you to that concept by, oh, 4
>years now. Next?
Well, now. We see what this boils down to. Sweet sweet jealousy.
>
>Oh look, a severed rotating pig's head! Been hanging out with Foetus, I see?
Really, I thought that was based on scenes from Lord of the Flies by William
Golding. But I'm sure Foteus coined the idea.
>Hey look! A still-life with Trent's head depicted in a gross fashion as if he'd
>been decapitated! The general sepiatone etched-plate motif! Guess you really
>liked that Joel-Peter Witkin exhibit that's in L.A. now, eh Trent?
>
>Why look, the whole thing's filmed in sepiatone with lotsa dust and then
>there's the creaky pulley bit ... guess the video store finally got that
>Brothers Quay compilation video in for Trent to rent ... and I'm sure watching
>those Tool videos didn't hurt, either ...
>
>The scary thing is that some kids out there might actually think this stuff
>is "new" and "original" or something ...
I thought it was... then again... nothing is new or original. All of the
great thoughts have already been thunk. Don't delude yourself.
undertow
>Pretty Hate Machine was original, everything else has been pretty bad.
>
>
>-Matt
>
P. C. Kilinskas
>Can we play "Name that influence"? Let's ...
>First up, we've got a monkey on a cross! Good, Trent, my wife's album cover
>("Stereotaxic Device", Kk Records) only beat you to that concept by, oh, 4
>years now. Next?
>Oh look, a severed rotating pig's head! Been hanging out with Foetus, I see?
>Hey look! A still-life with Trent's head depicted in a gross fashion as if he'd
>been decapitated! The general sepiatone etched-plate motif! Guess you really
>liked that Joel-Peter Witkin exhibit that's in L.A. now, eh Trent?
>Why look, the whole thing's filmed in sepiatone with lotsa dust and then
>there's the creaky pulley bit ... guess the video store finally got that
>Brothers Quay compilation video in for Trent to rent ... and I'm sure watching
>those Tool videos didn't hurt, either ...
>The scary thing is that some kids out there might actually think this stuff
>is "new" and "original" or something ...
Bad video? Who cares. Do you really like a band because of its videos?
I'd suggest Duran Duran for you, then... It's one thing to say NIN sucks
because of the music, but "they made an unoriginal video"? Absurd...
Phil
Curt Hagenlocher
>Not to mention Joy Division's influence on the name of the
>song.....Well, that may or may not be true... hard to prove I suppose.
Uh, could it be that the name of the song is a result of the fact that
it's a cover of Joy Division? (It's not like Trent's version particularly
deviates from the original after all. 'Xcept the angst in his voice sounds
fake.)
--
Curt Hagenlocher
c...@netcom.com
Voice of the Future
rec.music.industrial.flame or what?
Huh, huh huh... yeah, NIN is cool... go make another newsgroup to
flame 'em guys.
--------Hey folks, I don't like to hear bluegrass 24 hours a day but I
don't waste my time going to their newsgroup (if there were one) and
complaining...I'm gonna have to put everybody in my KIll file!--------
Kevin O' Gorman
>Bad video? Who cares. Do you really like a band because of its videos?
>I'd suggest Duran Duran for you, then... It's one thing to say NIN sucks
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^?????????????????
Uhh?
uhhhhhhh?
K
-
>Phil
Kevin O' Gorman
>In article <Ihz91He00...@cs.cmu.edu>, Matthe...@cs.cmu.edu writes:
>>Pretty Hate Machine was original, everything else has been pretty bad.
>>
>>
>>-Matt
>>
>Yeah. Bad-ass.
No. Just bad. As in not good.
Face it, he's a great performer, but not much of an artist.
K.
-
Tom Jarvela
In a previous article, mike...@netcom.com (Kontrol Faktory) says:
>I highly doubt that Trent had all that much to do with the video in the
>first place. I'm sure he just hired someone and said "make me a cool
>video", and went back up to his big fucking house in the hills, grabbed a
>budweiser, and sat by the pool.
I have to agree with Mike. Trent probably didn't do much of anything for the
video beyond a superficial image he wanted to present. Who directed it? My
guess would be Sleazy Christopherson, since he's been big on videos as
of late (Ministry's "Just One Fix," NIN's "Wish" and "March of the Pigs,"
Raging For The Machine's "Freedom," etc.)... I've yet to see the video, and
I can't say that I'm in much of a hurry to. I'm too busy to waste time
watching eMpTyV, and besides, I've already read Lord of the Flies. =)
Greg
undertow
>tun...@academic.csubak.edu (undertow) writes:
>No. Just bad. As in not good.
>
>Face it, he's a great performer, but not much of an artist.
>K.
Nah. He's a great musician/composer but a lousy lyricist.
J. Eric Townsend
earle> is that this guy wouldn't know a new video idea if it kicked
earle> him upside the head.
The belief that something can be 'new' is a fantasy of those who
refuse history.
--
j...@netcom.com -- J. Eric Townsend -- '92 R100R: "CLACKER"
wanted: a paper copy of wired 1.4, back issues of the comic 'Tank Girl'
Kevin O' Gorman
>Nah. He's a great musician/composer but a lousy lyricist.
There is no *way* he could be considered as anything of a composer (???)
...
I must admit to really liking that "The me that you know" song...I sing it
everywhere...however...
But his music? It's just layered stuff, like so much produced today.
K
Kevin O' Gorman
>earle> is that this guy wouldn't know a new video idea if it kicked
>earle> him upside the head.
>The belief that something can be 'new' is a fantasy of those who
>refuse history.
Nothing is new if you generalise too much. History has to be generalisation,
or it would require far too much effort on the part of my thicko roommate.
K.
-
For instance, there has never been a day like this one, if you think about it.
undertow
>tun...@academic.csubak.edu (undertow) writes:
>
>>Nah. He's a great musician/composer but a lousy lyricist.
>
>There is no *way* he could be considered as anything of a composer (???)
>
Macintosh instead of a score sheet. I am not comparing him with Mozart
or Brahms or Vivaldi, but the methods of which he creates his music would
be called composing, for lack of a better term.
>I must admit to really liking that "The me that you know" song...I sing it
>everywhere...however...
>
>But his music? It's just layered stuff, like so much produced today.
Layered yes. Thought out and calculated? Yes. Composed? Yes.
Ahem.
com-pose: 1. To put together in proper order or form.
2. To create (a musical or literary work)
com-pos-er: a person who composes, esp. one who composes
music.
Now then... It took over a year to complete TDS. An awful lot of work
for someone who can just layer a bunch of noise together and make it
look like and sound like music, huh?
>K
Andy
(Schpidah!!! He's our hero! -They Might Be Giants)
Brad Turcotte
In a previous article, spi...@maths.tcd.ie (Kevin O' Gorman) says:
>For instance, there has never been a day like this one, if you think about it.
It rained today. It has rained other days. There have been other
days like this one.
Brad.
It's late and I feel like walking into something.
--
"I wear black on the outside because black is how I feel on the inside.
And if I seem a little strange; Well, that's because I am." - The Smiths.
Charles B Gillett
Uh, we're talking about the song "Closer," and whether its name has any
relation to the Joy Division album "Closer." It would be hard to cover
the Joy Division song "Closer," because it doesn't exist.
No doubt you're referring to NIN's "Dead Souls" cover.
-- Charles Gillett
Darrell Fuhriman
>so the downward spiral was unoriginal... hmmmm... so thats why the album
>garnered rave reviews from every magazine, newspaper in the nation... yeah
>okay, whatever... so what are you on and where can i get some?
Snicker... you expect us to suddenly decide that "hey, he actually is
good" just 'cause some magazine (or any number of them) said I should?
I can think of a zillion examples of bands that got lots of rave reviews
from the magazines. That doesn't make them talented.
If your going to attempt to flame people for "dissing" one of your pet
bands you ought to at least get a flame that doesn't make you look like a
twit.
Whatever..
--
Darrell Fuhriman
"Hi mom!"
Serge Solski u
Usually, the musical artist has nothing to do with what the video
looks like. They go to some guy and say, "Hey, do our video." The
video-guy says, "Sure.", listens to the song, then says, "Okay, this is
what I want to do...."
It's not Trents fault that he got a lame director. Or maybe it is
his fault... The point is, I'm sure Trent didn't create any of the video
himself. He didn't say to the director, "I want spinning pig heads. I want
to be decapitated -- make it look really gross. I want a chicken on a
cross. NO! Make that a monkey! Yeah! A monkey! Oh, and make it look like
an old movie. Cool stuff d00d."
-Mark
--
"Key chuckles. 'If Skinny Puppy, in terms of the movie _Alien_, is a
chest-burster, then Doubting Thomas is more of a face-hugger,' he informs,
as if that were an explanation."
-Keyboard, Jan '92
Kevin O' Gorman
>Writing and composing are synonomous. Trent's writing takes place on a
>Macintosh instead of a score sheet.
Yes, that's interesting, but tell me <slap slap SLAP!>
> I am not comparing him with Mozart
>or Brahms or Vivaldi, but the methods of which he creates his music would
>be called composing, for lack of a better term.
Construction?
>Layered yes. Thought out and calculated? Yes. Composed? Yes.
What I meant by layered was...<deep breath> First, oor Tremt comes up with a
catchy baseline, then adds in successive instruments on top of that...it
doesn't WEAVE, like it SHOULD...
[dictionary quote deleted]
>Now then... It took over a year to complete TDS. An awful lot of work
>for someone who can just layer a bunch of noise together and make it
>look like and sound like music, huh?
I think you may be labouring under a misconception here. a "literary work"
is not a "work" because it was a lot of work to do it.
And while we're on the subject, of how long it took to do, that is, I remember
reading an interview with the man himself in which he said that it took him
far longer than it should have, or would have if he'd been in a normal
studio. (Instead of being in Charlie's Funhouse...and I won't even say what I
think of *that* :-)).
Still, who am I to piss on your parade. Trent is God. Trent is good. Good God,
it's Trent!
Funny thing is, the only reason I'm in today is to look for someone I lent a
NIN tape to.
Well, I thought it was funny...ohhhh, Fuck off!
K.
Jeremiah A Blatz
*ever.. by Susan Ros...@merle.acns.
<Matthe...@cs.cmu.edu> wrote:
> >Pretty Hate Machine was original, everything else has been pretty bad.
>
> no, PHM was far from original. he draws from a lot of electro-pop
> influences including grandaddy al's earliest ministry as well as other
> stuff like that
'Tis true, PHM does sound a bit like Twitch, but saying it isn't
original because it is in the same style as something else is kinda
harsh. Really, if you were to add together the sounds of all the musical
styles to date, there probably wouldn't be much space left. The point is
that PHM is in many respects better than Twitch.
BTW: I haven't heard In Case You Didn't Feel Like Showing Up, so there
is a bit o'gap in my Ministry knowledge.
BTW2: The Downward Spiral is Trent's worst to date.
Jer
dark...@cmu.edu | "it's not a matter of rights / it's just a matter of war
finger me for my | don't have a reason to fight / they never had one before"
Geek Code and | -Ministry, "Hero"
PGP public key | http://www.cs.cmu.edu:8001/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr25/jbde/
Shrek
Susan Roston <sro...@merle.acns.nwu.edu> wrote:
>In article <2thgkt$2...@isolar.Tujunga.CA.US>,
>Greg Earle <ea...@isolar.Tujunga.CA.US> wrote:
>>
..WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING AROUND HERE....FIRST FLAMES ABOUT CLEOPATRA, NOW
WE ARE ONTO NIN. I AM GLAD THERE IS AREAS FOR MUSICIANS TO CHAT WITH
OTHERS IN THE GENRES WITHOUT ALL THE FLAMING....!!!
Shrek.
>
Gregg Le Blanc
>>First up, we've got a monkey on a cross! Good, Trent, my wife's album cover
>>("Stereotaxic Device", Kk Records) only beat you to that concept by, oh, 4
>>years now. Next?
Well, let's see... I think before that near the turn of the century, we
might find an example of that in the Dada art movement... I do seem to
remember LOTS of things on a similar theme, maybe not that exactly, but
hey, I think that the lack of original idea might have more to do with
Trent's video director rather then Trent himself...
Just my US$0.02
TTFN
Gregg
__
/// Gregg Le Blanc : uleb...@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu Santa Barbara
__/// Learning conservation of charge! | emb...@castle.ed.ac.uk Endinburgh
\\X/ No electrons were created or destroyed in the making of this message.
Natalie Jacobs
ea...@isolar.Tujunga.CA.US writes:
>While channel-surfing late last night, I came upon some old geezer whose
last
>vital record was released in a decade that isn't the current or most
recent,
>sitting on a chair with silly horn-rim glasses on and saying "Here's the
new
>Nine Inch Nails video, `Closer'" ...
Hey, spud - dis Trent Reznor all you want (I have no opinion on him) but
leave Elvis Costello out of it, will you? Jeez.
- Natalie, defender of Declan (who needs no defense...)
"Two little Hitlers will fight it out until
One little Hitler does the other one's will."
Steven Palmer
off of stages (as an opening act) who "miraculously" creates decent music
and videos when he teams up with the likes of Flood, Keith LeBlanc, H.
Gun, et al and goes back to creating garbabge when left to his own devices
or collaborations with "mere mortals"...
The mystery here is??????
Steve (still laughing that someone who "champions" techno is complaining
about an artist's unoriginality...but that's a whole 'nother war)
palm...@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu
cnawal...@hamp.hampshire.edu
ma...@netcom.com (M.Montgomery) writes:
>Beast of Eden (boe...@u.washington.edu) wrote:
>: >Not amused,
>: >- Greg Earle
>
>Not intended as a flame becasue I too don't care for Mr. Reznor much.... BUT
>
>There are no original ideas out there anyway. The concept of originality
>being something inherent in Art is a "Modern" concept anyway. You never
>saw people like Shakespeare or Chauver caring about how "original" they
>were. They were always ripping off old stories. I love Gothic revival
>buildings of the 19th century and they were hardly "original".
Of course, the response that i'm tempted to give you(and the one that my
Futurist side is aching to spew) is that you only go to prove that Shakespeare
was bollocks as well.
And since i mentioned the Futurists, let me just say something about them:
why do you think they came along and fucked shit up the way they did? They
were SICK of the STAGNATION in all forms of art! Evryone was just content
with practicing the old learned responses, playing the same instruments,
sitting in the same concert halls.
Your ART should be about movement and progression if that is what your life
is to be about.
<rant-about-something-you-don't-fully-agree-with-mode off>
>
Dave Dalle
>the scary thing is how much people can't take things with a grain fo salt. I
>think the influences were no doubt intentional in that the video seemed silly
>as all hell to me. I was laughing as I watched the end of it. anyone else
>agree??
I just saw the March of the Pigs video for the first time, sorry I haven't
seen any other NIN videos. But this one made me chuckle a bit because he
is such a freak.
Dave
--
True connoisseurs of poetry have been at all times and in all places
exactly so rare as true poets themselves. -Lessing
All the above opinions are Papal Bull and therefore infallible.
Dave Dalle
>so the downward spiral was unoriginal... hmmmm... so thats why the album
>garnered rave reviews from every magazine, newspaper in the nation... yeah
>okay, whatever... so what are you on and where can i get some?
Well, I agree with you that tds is a great album, and original enough (and
I think PHM sucks) but really, who gives a fuck what music critics think.
I've never read an intelligent review of an album in any periodical or
newspaper. Critics always seem to be stupid ignorant fucks, and they tend to
bandwagon very easily (this is for pop-music critics, not classical or
jazz music critics) Interesting note for me though, is that I've only seen
one review of tds and it canned it mercilessly.
P. C. Kilinskas
>p...@acsu.buffalo.edu (P. C. Kilinskas) writes:
>>Bad video? Who cares. Do you really like a band because of its videos?
>>I'd suggest Duran Duran for you, then... It's one thing to say NIN sucks
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^?????????????????
>Uhh?
>uhhhhhhh?
>K
>-
Duran Duran is generally considered to have made it to the Top 40 on the
basis of their videos, rather than their music.
Phil
Dave Dalle
In a previous article, tun...@academic.csubak.edu (undertow) says:
>
>Nah. He's a great musician/composer but a lousy lyricist.
This is pure bullshit, not because I personally disagree with you, but
let's be honest, NIN wouldn't be popular, Trent would not be idolized by
so many people, No-one would like PHM etc. if so many people weren't
sucked in by his lyrics; It's obvious that a lot of "angst-ridden,
broken-hearted" people out there really identify with his lyrics.
NIN, U2, and Pearl Jam are bands whose lyrics are responsable for
most of their popularity.
But music-loving people should be just that, people who listen beyond the
lyrics to the music to truly judge the song/album/artist. (You shouldn't
ignore the lyrics though.)
Dave
P.S. One of my beefs against so-called music critics, is they rarely go
beyond the lyrics. How many fuckin' stupid bandwagoning critics out there
who talk about Kurt being a spokesperson etc. Because of his lyrics.
David Watson
In a previous article, ar...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Dave Dalle) says:
>I just saw the March of the Pigs video for the first time, sorry I haven't
>seen any other NIN videos. But this one made me chuckle a bit because he
>is such a freak.
The "March" video really grabbed me because it was totally unlike what you
would expect from NIN. It's Trent and his band in a rehearsal space doing
the song live to video. Only one camera was used and there was no edits
or special effects. His microphone-abusing, mugging with one of the
guitarists and brief grab of the keyboard is actually him restraining
himself compared to the trashing (not full out cos he left the drums alone)
he did at the first Lolla in Toronto.
--
Dave Watson, Severed Heads Liberation Front (Re-release the _Stretcher_ EP!)
Frezier Balzoff (Ottawa), Ontario, Canada Email-...@Freenet.carleton.ca
"A man is measured by the depth of his anger."--Eddie
"Everyone in this room is wearing a uniform, and don't kid yourself!"--Zappa
Susan Roston
Susan Roston <sro...@merle.acns.nwu.edu> wrote:
^^^^^^^^oops, i
mean to say released here rather than directed
--mike
Susan Roston
christopherson did not direct any NIN videos that have been directed. the MotP
video he did was not released, as was the video for gave up not released.
I believe he also did the front 242 video for rhythm of time.
decent video, but I think he is a better musician
--mikeroston--ending--
Jeremy Keens
In article <CrEo6...@freenet.carleton.ca>, ar...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
(Dave Dalle) wrote:
>
> In a previous article, tun...@academic.csubak.edu (undertow) says:
>
> >
> >Nah. He's a great musician/composer but a lousy lyricist.
>
> This is pure bullshit, not because I personally disagree with you, but
> let's be honest, NIN wouldn't be popular, Trent would not be idolized by
i have only recently found nin, and am in no way an industrial junkie
(though i have a bit of throbbing gristle, severed heads, snog, the
antigroup, mind/body). i was absolutely amazed by downward spiral and am
working my way back through the catalogue. the music amazed me, much of it
more soundscape than music, and the vocals are interestingly angstful. the
lyrics are another matter in some parts. there seems a level of misogyny in
some songs i could do with out. _big man with a big gun_ seems more of a
parody and role playing, but then some lines in _reptile_ seem quite
hateful.
original - whats original? it may be original to take old ideas and use
them for your purposes.
videos - i can do without
--
=========================Jeremy Keens=================================
Here Comes Everybody
O
Me, Jake and
tell me all about
Anna Livia Plurabelle
Anna Livia! I want to hear all
==================ke...@pitvax.xx.rmit.edu.au=============================
Beast of Eden
>Trent probably didn't do much of anything for the video beyond a
>superficial image he wanted to present. Who directed it? My guess would
>be Sleazy Christopherson, since he's been big on videos as of late
>(Ministry's "Just One Fix," NIN's "Wish" and "March of the Pigs," Raging
>For The Machine's "Freedom," etc.)
As of late? Peter Christopherson has always done album covers, rock
videos and TV commercials for a living, since none of the bands he's been
in have been huge moneymakers. Even when he was in Throbbing Gristle, he
was directing Peter Frampton videos.
Music that Coil had done for some of Sleazy's commercials ended up on the
flipside of "The Unreleased Themes From Hellraiser" 10".
Beast of Eden
Brian McCord
>>
>>Face it, he's a great performer, but not much of an artist.
>>K.
>Nah. He's a great musician/composer but a lousy lyricist.
Well, you see, we could NEVER agree on this, and no one's right. My
opinion is that he could never be classified as a great musician (most
people who write electronic music are often lousy or mediocre musicians;
it's a stereotype that can't be broken). He's a wonderful composer, and I
do like his lyrics. But we can quabble over this for weeks and draw this
thread thin, never coming to a conclusion. I DON'T CARE.
--
"Janet!" "Dr. Scott!" "Janet!" "Brad!" "Rocky!" <dumb look>
Manufactured by TAILCO -- making meaningless | g...@theporch.raider.net
taglines and signatures since 1993 | Brian McCord
My opinions are those of my own and a few drunken blokes across the street.
Cameron Lewis
the fact that I haven't seen the video... don't have mtv, thank the
lord...
I might watch it and have to complain about how bad it sucks)...
But the crucified monkey? I'm not so sure everyon's seen your
wife's album's cover art.....
Cameron Lewis
did not direct the video... sure it has his name on it, but christ...
I haven't seen it yet, but I thought Christophersen did it? The guy
from coil? Flame HIM for chrissake...
Brad West
nothing's original.
besides, last time trent came up with an original idea (happiness in
slavery), mtv clipped enough of it to make an intro to Alternative Nation,
and through the rest in the can, saying "no sir, we don't like it."
brad
Randall Glass
to the director?.. i liked the video...i like the hanging/spinning around
on a wire bit, and the 'scene missing' shots added a nice touch.. the
ending of the video reminded me of that Quay Bros animation with the keyboard.
there are a few videos from the band 'tool' that are done by those guys
i believe..cool stuff -prote
undertow
Actually, you're thinking of the short clip for Pinion, which became the
intro for A.N...ie. the dirt and stuff being washed down the sink and
thru the pipes... in the cut out part, the pipe is attatched to this
water meter on a guy in a rubber suit's head... i suppose he is supposed
to be choking on it.
Whatever... In Happiness in Slavery, a man (performance artist, Bob Flannagin)
gets tortured and physically torn to pieces by machines. Its macabre but
hardly imaginitive.
A.
too far gone to care|i want to but don't dare|the drone of machinery envelopes
me|in cold metallic wings|too numb to feel|too blind to see|to dulled to need|
sudden esctasy|biting hooks tear open skin|exposing insects deep within|gnaw-
ing on my strange disease|a simple request - give this to me|don't offer stol-
en hope|i only want to sear|if there's eternal darkness|it isn't far from here
undertow
Yeah, I thought that the Quay Bros did the tool videos also, but actually
they were directed (and the creatures created) by Adam Jones, Tool's guitarist.
I just want to see the missing scenes... which are included in the club
versions of the video... from what I hear, it's much more graphic than
MTV is showing us.
Jeff Shih
Brad West <bsw...@cs.washington.edu> wrote:
>besides, last time trent came up with an original idea (happiness in
>slavery), mtv clipped enough of it to make an intro to Alternative Nation,
happiness in slavery is ORIGINAL? As in purely from Trents head?
read 1984 by Orwell...
>brad
>
-dave
Sean Aaron Dickman
J. Eric Townsend <j...@netcom5.netcom.com> wrote:
>"earle" == Greg Earle <ea...@isolar.Tujunga.CA.US> writes:
>
>earle> is that this guy wouldn't know a new video idea if it kicked
>earle> him upside the head.
>
>The belief that something can be 'new' is a fantasy of those who
>refuse history.
Hallo all:
Quite a tasty little tidbit we have here, and almost true. I do
suspect that a very small percentage of our population actually do come up with
things that are completely true. If this small percentage ever grew too much,
humanity wouldn't be able to handle the changes. We are a very slow changing
beast. . .
As for Trent's lack of originality, I also must agree with Brother
Greg. But, Trent is still much fun when the DJ doesn't have anything else
better to play. ;)
Peace,
Brother Sean
mathew
undertow <tun...@academic.csubak.edu> wrote:
>In article <1994Jun15.0...@beaver.cs.washington.edu>, bsw...@cs.washington.edu (Brad West) writes:
>>slavery), mtv clipped enough of it to make an intro to Alternative Nation,
>>and through the rest in the can, saying "no sir, we don't like it."
>
>intro for A.N...ie. the dirt and stuff being washed down the sink and
>thru the pipes... in the cut out part, the pipe is attatched to this
>water meter on a guy in a rubber suit's head... i suppose he is supposed
>to be choking on it.
What, just like the scene in Terry Gilliam's film "Brazil"? (Released
in 1984).
mathew
--
http://www.mantis.co.uk/~mathew/
Looking for: Bug-tracking systems for UNIX, DOS and Windows
mathew
>Snicker... you expect us to suddenly decide that "hey, he actually is
>good" just 'cause some magazine (or any number of them) said I should?
No, I expect you to decide that NIN sucks just 'cause some magazine
said it's good and people have heard of it.
John Corry O'Neill
undertow <tun...@academic.csubak.edu> wrote:
>Actually, you're thinking of the short clip for Pinion, which became the
>intro for A.N...ie. the dirt and stuff being washed down the sink and
>thru the pipes... in the cut out part, the pipe is attatched to this
>water meter on a guy in a rubber suit's head... i suppose he is supposed
>to be choking on it.
Hmm... sounds suspiciously like a scene out of "Brazil"... again, nothing is
original.
--
John O'Neill "True love is the best thing in
jc...@columbia.edu the world, except for cough drops.
G(TB)^2 Everyone knows that."
--William Goldman
Stewart Tame
>In article <2thgkt$2...@isolar.Tujunga.CA.US>, ea...@isolar.Tujunga.CA.US (Greg Earle) writes:
>>
>>First up, we've got a monkey on a cross! Good, Trent, my wife's album cover
>>("Stereotaxic Device", Kk Records) only beat you to that concept by, oh, 4
>>years now. Next?
>
Just for the sake of tracing the March of Ideas, didn't one of the original
dadaists nail a stuffed monkey to a wall and title it "Portrait of
Cezanne"?
My brain is a little fuzzy on details today ...
-- Stewart "never seen the video in question"
Tame
High Priest, First Universal Church of Barney
Keeper of the Death In June discography
(version 6.0 currently available)
kibo*a bird in the hand is not dead*kibokibokibokibokibokibokibokibokibokibo
iEmail: st...@emunix.emich.edu | Disclaimer: Eastern Michigan University b
b-------------------------------- and all employees thereof fully agree i
oSnailmail: Stewart Tame | with my opinions. The Easter Bunny k
k 311 Jarvis, Apt. 102 | told me so. o
i Ypsilanti, MI 48197-2462|__________________________________________b
bokibokibokibokibokibokibokibo*dada is worth two in the bush *kibokibokiboki
"I'm not your f*ckin' spritz-head girlfriend, I'm HOTHEAD PAISAN!" --
Hothead Paisan, Homicidal Lesbian Terrorist
Brad West
>I highly doubt that Trent had all that much to do with the video in the
>first place. I'm sure he just hired someone and said "make me a cool
>video", and went back up to his big fucking house in the hills, grabbed a
>budweiser, and sat by the pool.
nah, he's out of the big-fucking-house (pig). And I don't think he
drinks budweiser.
heh, brad
Jason Patterson
: ahh, but did any of these people make a video of it all?
: nothing's original.
Uhh.. The AltNat'n header is _pinion_, not Happiness in Slavery, which are the
big two that mtv censored.. btw- both original...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason Patterson - cru...@freenet.scri.fsu.edu //| // // //| // piggy n._.n
aka heresy on pat...@vaxdad.scri.fsu.edu //||// // //||// hey pig `o o'
irc -- #nin pat...@dirac.scri.fsu.edu // |// // // |// piggy pig (~@~)
the nin home page is at www link: "http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~patters/nin.html"
"i'm stuck in this dream it's changing me i am becoming" - trent reznor - nin
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gregory Taylor
>With that, we plunge head-long into Trent's newest video opus, and immediately
>several things become evident; the most telling is that this guy wouldn't
>know a new video idea if it kicked him upside the head.
Gregster, are you merely feigning surprise? The boy's riding the great wave of
industrial orthodoxy - why would he even *want* to risk censure by using images
of orchids for whole of the new video. For my money, at *least* he bothered to
get Flood to carve some interesting sonic holes in the wall of noise on the
record; to do anything sufficiently brave or clever beyond that [like, say
coming up with lyrics that aren't the equivalent of the visuals in his videos]
would have been too dangerous.
The visual material *was* a bit painful, though. But hey - a fair number of his
post-literate fans'll never know the difference; for them, "Street of
Crocodiles" will look just like a NiN video, man....
And yes, your beloved *did* have dibs on the crucified monkey.
Regards,
Gregory
--
I could be happy now. From my seat in the airplane/I could imagine the full
enclosures of people/contented and with no needs beyond/private moments
walking the fenceline/before joining the others in the night enclosure
/that is the final shape of countries/Gregory Taylor/gta...@fullfeed.com
Xavier Aburto
at one point Duran Duran did a cover of Thank You by Led Zepplin. It was
A tramatic experience for me and I don't want to relive it .
Stephen M Wood
to a metronome?
That's an old Dadaist work of art (by Marcel Duchamp? I forget)
Anyone know it's real name? I saw on a video in high school.
The artist (Marcel Duchamp?) named it "3 minutes" or something like that
because "that's how long I can listen to it ticking before I feel like
smashing it against the wall."
And here I thought Trent was making a cool reference (Dadaism)
But I guess he doesn't have any original ideas.
-Steve
blackskull
>
>Whatever... In Happiness in Slavery, a man (performance artist, Bob Flannagin)
>gets tortured and physically torn to pieces by machines. Its macabre but
>hardly imaginitive.
>
MuchMusic in Canada wouldn't play that video, and during this show called 'Too
Much for Much" they had a discussion about it, including an interview with the
director, and from his comments, it sounds as if Mr. Reznor had little input
into the finished product, save for a few comments decribing generally the
kind of thing he wanted.
BTW, when I watched it way back when, I noticed a really cute boy in a
Christian Death t-shirt. Now that I'm in Toronto, I think someone should find
him for me. Thank you.
Thank you,
Have a pleasant evening,
Goodbye.
blac...@io.org
Dave Dalle
>> Duran Duran is generally considered to have made it to the Top 40 on the
>> basis of their videos, rather than their music.
> Please don't talk about Duran Duran, I just saw with honours and
>at one point Duran Duran did a cover of Thank You by Led Zepplin. It was
>A tramatic experience for me and I don't want to relive it .
>
To anyone who's interested, RON CROSS, loves Duran Duran, he has their
compilation and an album of theirs on CD. Ask him, and you'll get a
detailed analysis of why their songs are actually really clever.
Dave
The Oracle of Nonsense
Message-ID: <15JUN199...@pavo.concordia.ca>
References: <mikehellC...@netcom.com> <2thgkt$2...@isolar.Tujunga.CA.US> <2tj9s1$1...@news.ysu.edu>
Organization: Concordia University
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| MAN MADE GOD IN HIS OWN IMAGE |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| g_j...@pavo.concordia.ca==>Gareth Jarvis: Ask no questions Get no lies |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
David Carson
>In article <CrDzB...@efn.org>, Darrell Fuhriman <dar...@efn.org> wrote:
>>Snicker... you expect us to suddenly decide that "hey, he actually is
>>good" just 'cause some magazine (or any number of them) said I should?
>
>No, I expect you to decide that NIN sucks just 'cause some magazine
>said it's good and people have heard of it.
I gotta hand it to you, that's a good comeback.
Having said that.. is there any chance that this Trent-flaming could
be trimmed down to maybe just one newsgroup? I don't find it very gothic.
alt.music.alternative is a traditional "uh uh that band sucks" newsgroup,
so I pointed the followups that way..
O---------O----------------------------O------------------------------O
| n | g | Live dull, and think "Why | David Carson |
| e -+- o | bother?", and leave a note | Student of philosophy! |
| t | t | saying goodbye.. | ...and computing :-( |
| . | h | The High Cost Of Living | Macquarie Uni, Sydney, Aust. |
O---------O----------------------------O------------------------------O
Wade E. Harrell
: tun...@academic.csubak.edu (undertow) writes:
: >Nah. He's a great musician/composer but a lousy lyricist.
: There is no *way* he could be considered as anything of a composer (???)
: ...
: I must admit to really liking that "The me that you know" song...I sing it
: everywhere...however...
: But his music? It's just layered stuff, like so much produced today.
: K
: -
: --
: Shine like Thundah! Get down! Shine like thundah! Get down! Shine like Thundah
: !!Cry like Rain! Cry like Rain! Cry like rain! Cry like Rain! Cry like Rain!!!
: !!!!Get down! Shine like Thundah! Get down! Shine like Thundah get down!!!!!!!
: !!!!!!!!!I am spidey I am at maths which is at tcd which is at ie!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--
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CHMR FM
himself to be quite original. In a recent "Keyboard" magazine interview
he made a reference to sampling saying that he looks for original
sound samples instead of the "cliched one line spoken word sample" (this
might not be the exact quote whereas I don't have the article with me
right now). Other people have also told me that he's constantly critical
of other industrial bands because he says that none of them are
"original" (I don't know if this is actually true, it's just what I've
been told).
In my opinion, with "March of the Pigs" he tried too hard to be original
(whether or not he actually succeded, I don't know) and the quality of
the songs went way down. I liked "Pretty Hate Machine" and "Broken" a lot
more.
With any luck, Mr. Reznor might subscribe to the Internet. Maybe he'll
read all of this stuff about his lack of originality, maybe he won't give
a shit. Maybe it'll knock him down a peg. :-)
Bob
--
"Man must show goodness of heart toward animals because
those who are cruel to them are equally insensitive to men."
(I. Kant 1724-1804) ch...@morgan.ucs.mun.ca
Patrick A Filipkowski
because he is too high on himself. just ask him.
sweaty pat
The Masked Jackal
to boot.
The Masked Jackal
Bruno Fernandes
The Masked Jackal <ams...@ritvax.isc.rit.edu> wrote:
>I'll second that: Trent Reznor is a dork. A no-talent sycophant
>to boot.
>
Right Wolfman. That reminds me. I still have to pick up the new album.
Bruno.
--
"Also believe that peanut butter | The ideas expressed may very well be my
and bacon have been neglected as | own.
food groups, particularly when |
eaten together." - D. Cooper | e0f1...@credit.erin.utoronto.ca
Vampire Gabrielle
>The scary thing is that some kids out there might actually think this stuff
>is "new" and "original" or something ...
>Not amused,
The scary thing is people might forget that our man Trent is a
postmodernist not a goth.
In the film business we call what he does an homage.
If you're looking to flame someone for "stealing" ideas, hollywood
filmakers are a boring start. There has not been an original
hollywood film in decades, so simmer down pot roast. (as a friend of
mine is fond of saying :)
Trent is an awesome musician- and his angst is amusing to me. I like
to see people who are more tortured than me.
Besides- as previously stated by the KF- guy Mike- he probably
didn't even make the video.
Finally, I would like to add that if you think you can do better, maybe
you should make a video and send it to him- I'm sure if he liked it
he would use it. It would save him money.
--
-Vampire Gabrielle (cba...@scf.usc.edu)
* "Live deep and suck the marrow out of life"--Thoreau *
* "Let the flesh instruct the mind"- A. Rice *
--
-Vampire Gabrielle (cba...@scf.usc.edu)
* "Live deep and suck the marrow out of life"--Thoreau *
* "Let the flesh instruct the mind"- A. Rice *
the wonderful goat-bo
> Oh look, a severed rotating pig's head! Been hanging out with Foetus, I see?
>
I noticed the thematic similarities to NAIL almost instantly (compare
March Of The Pigs, Piggy, Le Pig (studio) with Pigswill, the Pigdom Come
themes and there's a case to be made for plagiarism)... I also find it
terribly strange that Reznor claims to have not known he was renting the
Tate mansion until after he'd taken possession, especially since he quote
Manson on his first album "Can this world really be as sad as it seems"
[which also appears on Throbbing Gristle's Heathen Earth album cover].
>
> The scary thing is that some kids out there might actually think this stuff
> is "new" and "original" or something ...
>
> Not amused,
guess it's their common interest in Clive Barker or something..
go...@sys6626.bison.mb.ca
the wonderful goat-bo
> hch...@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Howard Cheng) writes:
> >Not to mention Joy Division's influence on the name of the
> >song.....Well, that may or may not be true... hard to prove I suppose.
>
> Uh, could it be that the name of the song is a result of the fact that
> it's a cover of Joy Division? (It's not like Trent's version particularly
> deviates from the original after all. 'Xcept the angst in his voice sounds
> fake.)
they're talking about Closer, not Dead Souls...
the wonderful goat-bo
>
> A more valid complaint against Mr. Reznor might be that he failed to
> fully utilize the symbols and visual images in a completely satisfying
> way for you -- the viewer.
>
> Nothimg is new.
a more valid complaint is that he has almost never failed to credit his
influences... that he has been entirely critical of many of his peers and
every magazine article I've seen on him has always shouted "yes, I do
think I'm god" at me... I have no problems with people copying others,
unless they don't acknowledge those whose ideas they steal. There is a
fine line between plagiarism and pastiche, it seems that Reznor spends an
awful lot of time walking it.
go...@sys6626.bison.mb.ca
Adam J Weitzman
I had exactly two comments when I saw the video for Nine Inch Nails'
"Closer":
1) "I liked the open heart pumping to the beat of the song at the
beginning."
2) "This guy know how to push all the buttons, doesn't he?"
Oh yeah, I thought sticking that "scene removed" screen into the
proceedings every so often was kinda funny.
I'm sure Greg Earle's wife was not the first person to use a monkey on
a cross. Puh-leeze. We all steal from our surroundings and what we are
exposed to. So what? It didn't look anything like a Quay video; there
was no animation at all in it as I recall. It was just a whole
mishmash of stuff, some original, most not, just like everything else
on MTV. *shrug*
--
- Adam J Weitzman
INDIVIDUAL, Inc.
weit...@individual.com
Disclaimer: The above are my views, not necessarily those of my employer.
Curt Hagenlocher
> Uh, we're talking about the song "Closer," and whether its name has any
>relation to the Joy Division album "Closer." It would be hard to cover
>the Joy Division song "Closer," because it doesn't exist.
> No doubt you're referring to NIN's "Dead Souls" cover.
Duh.
The wonderful thing about goofing on the Net is the immediate feedback.
Somehow, the concepts "NIN" and "Joy Division" were the only parts I
actually paid attention to. On the other hand, the cover of Dead Souls
seems to imply that Trent is a JD fan; this makes it more likely that
"Closer" is another JD reference.
I've admired Greg Earle's postings for years (since the days of the
nm-list, or whatever other names it eventually ended up with), and
I can't help but suspect that his article, while 100% honest, was a
form of the entertainment known as "trolling".
--
Curt Hagenlocher
c...@netcom.com
Misha Verbitsky
Beast of Eden <boe...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
>ac...@yfn.ysu.edu (Tom Jarvela) writes:
>
>>Trent probably didn't do much of anything for the video beyond a
>>superficial image he wanted to present. Who directed it? My guess would
>>be Sleazy Christopherson, since he's been big on videos as of late
>>(Ministry's "Just One Fix," NIN's "Wish" and "March of the Pigs," Raging
>>For The Machine's "Freedom," etc.)
>As of late? Peter Christopherson has always done album covers, rock
>videos and TV commercials for a living, since none of the bands he's been
>in have been huge moneymakers. Even when he was in Throbbing Gristle, he
>was directing Peter Frampton videos.
Peter did the Animals cover for Pink Floyd, and was responsible
for the flying pig (one which is now exploited by PF on concerts).
He also did the Houses of the Holy cover for Led Zeppelin, with
androgynous naked women crawling in the dirt. I think that most
of Hypnosis album covers were done by Peter.
Misha.
Mandy E. Kinne
>is "new" and "original" or something ...
Listen ya dumb putz, everything that can be done has already been done.
There is nothing new, creative or original under the sun. There is no
mode of thought, no manner of perception, no zeitgeist of society that
some twink hasn't already tried. Now, if you had the brains of
hydroencephellic gnat you would realize that. More importantly, you
might realize that you don't go out and do something because nobody has
done it before, you do it because YOU haven't done it before!
Of course, this line of reasoning coming from you doesn't really
surprise me, you've been spouting crap like this for years now.
Chris Rapier aka d'cel
(shamelessly using mandy's account because I'm aa cheap bastard)
Dave Dalle
In a previous article, weit...@individual.com (Adam J Weitzman) says:
>
>I had exactly two comments when I saw the video for Nine Inch Nails'
>"Closer":
It just occured to me, isn't "Closer" the song that has the opening line
"I want to fuck you like an animal"? Is the video censored? Maybe that's
why I haven't seen it here on Muchmusic.
Dave
P.S. Closer is the only song on the album, which I don't like at all.
Jonas Ahrentorp
|>Earle<| The scary thing is that some kids out there might actually think this stuff
|>Earle<| is "new" and "original" or something ...
Maybe the kids out there just don't give a flying shit what's "new" and
"original"? Why does everything be bad just because it isn't boiling over
with brand new concepts and all new views all the time?
Please, someone hand me the clue...
--
'|/"\|\|"|"[_' / ("' | |") /"\| (") / pt9...@pt.hk-r.se (Jonas Ahrentorp)
\_/\_/| | | [_, / ,").|.|"\ \_+|_.(") / "Play it again, Yortlebluzzgubbly."
Master and Servant
>While channel-surfing late last night, I came upon some old geezer whose last
>vital record was released in a decade that isn't the current or most recent,
>sitting on a chair with silly horn-rim glasses on and saying "Here's the new
>Nine Inch Nails video, `Closer'" ...
Um, interesting. I suspect you do know who this chap is, eH? Well, I can
understand your feelings for Trent and his work, however, it was quite
unnecessary for you to displace the anger.
For those of you who don't know who this "old geezer" is, and for you possibly,
it was Elvis Costello. Vital album? Um, lets see.. he's been continuously
active putting out albums every year since 77 except for maybe two or three, of
course I'm willing to forgive him for those years, as for a number of others,
he's released more than one.. What? you want me to list them? Well, given that
half of my stuff of his is at another address and I don't even have half of his
work, lets just say, the six full-length albums infront of me, are all from the
80's, which I believe qualifys as the "most recent" decade. And lets not forget
to mention the specials - the specials album also infront of me, which he
produced (from 80), nor the significant work he's done with squeeze, paul mc-,
the album he penned for wendy james, etc etc etc - I believe you can ftp a
music server somewhere.. try cs.uwp.edu in pub/music/artists/c/costello.elvis
the discography is a good place to start..
oh, and current decade? Well, we can say mighty like a rose, from 91, And
other albums which I don't have (was spike 89 or 90?), lets not forget the
chamber music of the juliet letters album, and hey I just remembered he's
on tour with the crash test dummies for his latest album.. gee.
>With that, we plunge head-long into Trent's newest video opus, and immediately
>several things become evident; the most telling is that this guy wouldn't
>know a new video idea if it kicked him upside the head.
Um, maybe, acytually, I agree with you, short of having seen your wife's(?)
album cover.. but honestly, isn't the art of music video often the art of
appropriating pre-existing imagery to tie your song to? do you want to talk
about appropriated or stolen imagery? lets talk about u2's latest efforts..
need we mention the zootv of the tour, or their use of ebn video? how about
lemon, a video whose imagery was created entirely around the photographic
experiments of an early photo pioneer (now where did I put that hist of photo
book? i'm just horrid with name retention..) or how about numb? i've heard that
that was lifted from an EC video.. others? others? well, i dont have a big
database, but at least closer tried to meld the imagery rather than just
lifting it from one person entirely But anyways, just how much of a video
is from the artist and just how much is the director? also, how much slack
do we allow for creative cogenesis? if you're going to criticize an artist,
try doing it based on his own lyrical content and music, not on the fact
that someone creates a vision for the video to package him with, or on the
fact that he's in his 40's and is still rocking..
and for those of you in alt.gothic.. so what about the glasses? he was
wearing black and red, how cool can you get?
Disclaimer: This is no where near as flamey as I'd like it to be.
Beast of Eden
> Peter did the Animals cover for Pink Floyd, and was responsible
> for the flying pig (one which is now exploited by PF on concerts).
> He also did the Houses of the Holy cover for Led Zeppelin, with
> androgynous naked women crawling in the dirt. I think that most
> of Hypnosis album covers were done by Peter.
I'm surprised I didn't know about this, but a quick check of my copy of
"Walk Away Rene: The ABC of Hipgnosis" reveals this to be the case.
Hipgnosis, for those who have never heard of it, was (or is? I don't know
if its still extant) a design studio that did album covers and other rock
art and are known for their innovative designs (very often, the Hipgnosis
cover is the best thing about the album). Many famous album covers of
the late '60s and '70s were done by Hipgnosis.
Hipgnosis was a partnership of three people, Storm Thorgerson, Aubrey
Powell and Peter Christopherson (until 1974 it was just Thorgerson and
Powell). Credits on albums were always simply given as "Hipgnosis",
meaning the two or, later, three partners collectively, with other
involved designers being named separately.
Given that, its not quite accurate to say he designed most of the Hipgnosis
album covers, but rather that all the Hipgnosis art from about 1974 or so
onward was designed by him, the other two partners, and whatever other
designers are credited. He wouldn't have been involved with the "Houses
of the Holy" cover, because this was done in 1973. He was involved with
the Pink Floyd "Wish You Were Here" cover (he's named specifically in the
credits, not being a full partner at the time), which was a particularly
innovative album design. He was also involved with the "Animals" cover,
though in fairness to Pink Floyd, Roger Waters is credited with coming up
with the idea for the cover and the inflatable pig.
His background in visual art has an effect on the way he writes music for
Coil. In a "Keyboard" article he says, "As long as I can remember, I've
approached music from a visual point of view. Any technique that you can
apply to a film, you can apply to a piece of music. Our tunes start off
with a sort of film script; filmic pictures are much more successful than
songs that start off with a riff or bass line or conventional musical cue."
Beast of Eden
Jeremiah A Blatz
Tren.. by Master and Servant@er6.r
> need we mention the zootv of the tour, or their use of ebn video?
Whey appropriated EBN's stuff. Fucking beautiful! U2 gets a point in my book.
Feeling ironic,
Jer
dark...@cmu.edu | "it's not a matter of rights / it's just a matter of war
finger me for my | don't have a reason to fight / they never had one before"
Geek Code and | -Ministry, "Hero"
PGP public key | http://www.cs.cmu.edu:8001/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr25/jbde/
Alan Blattberg
I seem to recall that P. Cristopherson directed one 'r two P. Frampton
vids, as well.
Alan Blattberg
al...@panix.com
nycnycnycnycnyc
Chris Krolczyk
: I've admired Greg Earle's postings for years (since the days of the
: nm-list, or whatever other names it eventually ended up with),
You'll have to beg my pardon for interrupting this terribly boring NIN
discussion, but nm-list still exists under the same ol' same ol'. The
_address_ has changed, tho. I believe a sub can probably be obtained
through nm-list...@xmission.com, but try to Email the list at
nm-listxmission.com if that doesn't work.
--
-Chris Krolczyk krol...@mcs.com
In the event you were offended by the preceding message, please don't
bother suing over it. There's better ways to waste tons of your own cash.
SCOTT ANDREW MOBERLY
> While channel-surfing late last night, I came upon some old geezer whose last
> vital record was released in a decade that isn't the current or most recent,
> sitting on a chair with silly horn-rim glasses on and saying "Here's the new
> Nine Inch Nails video, `Closer'" ...
>
> several things become evident; the most telling is that this guy wouldn't
> know a new video idea if it kicked him upside the head.
>
>
> First up, we've got a monkey on a cross! Good, Trent, my wife's album cover
> ("Stereotaxic Device", Kk Records) only beat you to that concept by, oh, 4
> years now. Next?
>
> Oh look, a severed rotating pig's head! Been hanging out with Foetus, I see?
>
> been decapitated! The general sepiatone etched-plate motif! Guess you really
> liked that Joel-Peter Witkin exhibit that's in L.A. now, eh Trent?
>
> Why look, the whole thing's filmed in sepiatone with lotsa dust and then
> there's the creaky pulley bit ... guess the video store finally got that
> Brothers Quay compilation video in for Trent to rent ... and I'm sure watching
> those Tool videos didn't hurt, either ...
>
> The scary thing is that some kids out there might actually think this stuff
First - What's wrong with 'influences'? Noone can make something out
of nothing.
Second - Who do you think is so great that everthing they make is
New and original.
Third - If those images are represented in new configurations and
combinations isn't that enough for you.
Fourth - Are you really that arrogant to downtalk a major recording
artist with nothing to show for yourself?
Fifth - The youth need these shocking and sinister images presented
in a medium they understand, i.e. music they know/feel
comfortable with.
>
> Not amused,
>
> --
> - Greg Earle
> Phone: (818) 353-8695 FAX: (818) 353-1877 [Call # again if
> Internet: ea...@isolar.Tujunga.CA.US you get !FAX tone]
> UUCP: isolar!ea...@elroy.JPL.NASA.GOV a.k.a. ...!elroy!isolar!earle
Susan Roston
SCOTT ANDREW MOBERLY <smob...@cwis.unomaha.edu> wrote:
>
> First - What's wrong with 'influences'? Noone can make something out
> of nothing.
> Second - Who do you think is so great that everthing they make is
> New and original.
> Third - If those images are represented in new configurations and
> combinations isn't that enough for you.
> Fourth - Are you really that arrogant to downtalk a major recording
> artist with nothing to show for yourself?
> Fifth - The youth need these shocking and sinister images presented
> in a medium they understand, i.e. music they know/feel
> comfortable with.
>
lastly, why are you resurrecting a LONG DEAD thread. this is abot amonth old
now. leave it that way please.
--mike roston--the once and future ending--
Len Jaffe
>ea...@isolar.Tujunga.CA.US writes:
>> With that, we plunge head-long into Trent's newest video opus,
>> Oh look, a severed rotating pig's head! Been hanging out with Foetus, I see?
Considering that JG Thirlwell did a buch of the remixes on Fixed, I'd
say that he has been hanging out with Foetus. BFD.
Video as an artistic medium died the day all the record execs figured
out what a great promotional tool MTV could be.
Listen to the album and dream your own video.
> Second - Who do you think is so great that everthing they make is
> New and original.
Ace of Base
> Third - If those images are represented in new configurations and
> combinations isn't that enough for you.
How many fruit flavor combinations are there?
Head like a grapleberry?
> Fourth - Are you really that arrogant to downtalk a major recording
> artist with nothing to show for yourself?
Get famous move away from Cleveland... tsk tsk.
> Fifth - The youth need these shocking and sinister images presented
> in a medium they understand, i.e. music they know/feel
> comfortable with.
Wow. That just pegged my bogometer. The youth need a stern caning, school
six days a week 52 weeks a year, and a part time job at the mill.
lenny.
--
Leonard A. Jaffe - hawk...@mcs.kent.edu
My heart is a flower. - King Missile
D.R. Meece
first hunter-gatherer mug who killed one. Guess he should have gotten a
copyright.
This thread is really stupid.
References to Pig's do play pretty heavy into NIN's downward spiral. Trent
Reznor says this wasn't an intentional result of recording the album in the
Tate mansion where the Manson murders occured.
d.r.
Susan Roston
this thread had been dead and done taking up so much god damn bandwidth a
couple weeks ago, but someone just HAD to bring it back withouth looking at
the date of the original poter.
grrr
Peter Salzman
: this thread had been dead and done taking up so much god damn bandwidth a
: couple weeks ago, but someone just HAD to bring it back withouth looking at
: the date of the original poter.
:
: grrr
: --mike roston--the once and future ending--
A big hearty "FUCK YOU, MIKE ROSTON", you fascist scumbag.
Who the fuck are you to tell these people what they can and can't
post... are you some kind of thought police? Do you own this newsgroup?
I happen to enjoy reading this thread. If you're so uptight that you
can't deal, just don't fucking read it, moron. How much more simple can
it be?
I hate fucking nazis...
Leave them alone, let them post in peace and shut up already.
-peter
--
#####################################################################
I BOYCOTT ANY COMPANY WHO USES MASS ADVERTISING ON THE INTERNET
--
#####################################################################
I BOYCOTT ANY COMPANY WHO USES MASS ADVERTISING ON THE INTERNET
John Vulich
>> Can we play "Name that influence"? Let's ...
>>
>> First up, we've got a monkey on a cross! Good, Trent, my wife's album cover
>> ("Stereotaxic Device", Kk Records) only beat you to that concept by, oh, 4
>> years now. Next?
a Witkins photo or a Pixies album cover... or was it your wifees stuff.
>> Why look, the whole thing's filmed in sepiatone with lotsa dust and then
>> there's the creaky pulley bit ... guess the video store finally got that
>> Brothers Quay compilation video in for Trent to rent ... and I'm sure watching
>> those Tool videos didn't hurt, either ...
>>
Svankmeyers (who by the way was doing this style of films since the early
sixties.) God forbid Reznor is "INFLUENCED" by anything.
taking bits and pieces
from others and putting them back together again. I suppose if you were to
do something artistic it would be pure and devoid of "INFLUENCED" from any
other source...
JV