Ministry vs. Bauhaus
Andrew Clegg
No, don't worry, this isn't another flamewar thread like Robert Smith
versus Trent Reznor; it's merely me thinking aloud, and trying to
provoke some interesting discussion.
I began to suspect something when I read an interview with Al Jourgensen
in NME, and he said something like he wished he was as skinny as Peter
Murphy, so he'd be able to play the mandolin properly. And then I
started spotting the comparisons everywhere.
Listen to Double Dare then Lava, or Bela Lugosi's Dead then So What
(especially the drums), for example, and tell me you can't hear *big*
similarities.
Then there's Stigmata Martyr, and Stigmata; and Burning From The Inside,
and Burning Inside. And a few Ministry songs sound almost like they
could be Bauhaus covers -- Tonight We Murder, Cannibal Song, Isle Of
Man, Never Believe, Apathy for example.
Tell me if you think I'm talking out of my arse, or if everyone noticed
this years ago. It's not that I'm saying Ministry are ripping off
Bauhaus, although there is definitely an influence there; it'd just that
everyone says Ministry are a heavy metal band nowadays, but I don't
think it's true. I think they're a post-punk goth band, only louder.
(Comments and opinions welcome, flames should be directed elsewhere
please.)
Andrew.
"What's the matter, Eddie, does it frighten you?"
"Frighten me? No, Frank, I think 'startle' is a better word."
Tim E. McGraw
Andrew Clegg (Sur...@warpfive.demon.co.uk) wrote:
> No, don't worry, this isn't another flamewar thread like Robert Smith
> versus Trent Reznor; it's merely me thinking aloud, and trying to
> provoke some interesting discussion.
> I began to suspect something when I read an interview with Al Jourgensen
> in NME, and he said something like he wished he was as skinny as Peter
> Murphy, so he'd be able to play the mandolin properly. And then I
> started spotting the comparisons everywhere.
> Listen to Double Dare then Lava
taking it just a bit further, listen to Christian Says (Tones On Tail) and
then Stigmata...
maybe it's Daniel Ash and not Peter Murphy he envies.
Lucky Locke
On Mon, 24 Jun 1996 16:07:38 +0100 Andrew Clegg wrote in rec.music.industrial :
: ... It's not that I'm saying Ministry are ripping off
: Bauhaus, although there is definitely an influence there; it'd just that
: everyone says Ministry are a heavy metal band nowadays, but I don't
: think it's true. I think they're a post-punk goth band, only louder.
Nah, I still consider Ministry to be techno-metal (I think we can drop the
techno prefix for the last record, but I'm not quite sure since I haven't
listened enough to Filth Pig).
Bauhaus were a great band (i feel sorry that neither Love&Rockets nor
Peter Murphy could keep this greatness) and highly influential. I like
them alot (not that this would mean something).
Well, sometimes people are influenced by something without even noticing
it. But when Ministry were influenced by Bauhaus, they failed.
CU,
_ __ ___ _ __ ___ \\|||//
| | / \ / _/| |/ /| _| / @ @ \
| |__| || || |_ | \ | _| NP: (| \ |)
|____|\__/ \__\|_|\_\|___| Scanner "Spore" \__=__/
| |
Skarekroe
"paisley" has a very gothic sound to it.
just thought i'd throw that in.
sk
roBb Cunningham
on this subject, I have noticed that there are quite a number of goths who
otherwise do not enjoy industrial (or "pseudo-industrial" or whatever) but
they still like Ministry, particularly the "Mind..." album. I never noticed
anything particularly gothic about that album, except maybe Dreamsong. but
now that Andrew has brought it up, it starts to make sense. perhaps he is
onto something....
ROBB
"Those with no rights, display the right to have no lives"
Andrew Clegg
In article <4qprb3$o...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, Skarekroe
<skar...@aol.com> writes
>"paisley" has a very gothic sound to it.
>just thought i'd throw that in.
What's Paisley? Is that something from one of the sideprojects (Pailhead
maybe?)? I know it rings a bell from somewhere.
Andrew.
"What's the matter, Eddie, does it frighten you?"
"Frighten me? No, Frank, I think 'startle' is a better word."
NP: Haujobb -- Sensor [Freeze Frame Reality]
Andrew Clegg
<skar...@aol.com> writes
>:What's Paisley? Is that something from one of the :sideprojects (Pailhead
>:maybe?)? I know it rings a bell from somewhere.
>
<Andrew slips into completist mode>
What label's that on? I didn't realise it'd actually been released as a
single.
Andrew.
"What's the matter, Eddie, does it frighten you?"
"Frighten me? No, Frank, I think 'startle' is a better word."
NP: Bodychoke -- Skinflick [Five Prostitutes]
Andrew Clegg
<iceo...@smartlink.net> writes
>on this subject, I have noticed that there are quite a number of goths who
>otherwise do not enjoy industrial (or "pseudo-industrial" or whatever) but
>they still like Ministry, particularly the "Mind..." album. I never noticed
>anything particularly gothic about that album, except maybe Dreamsong.
There's an old story about Ministry soundchecking for Lollapolooza,
playing one of the songs off that album (I can't remember which one),
and a member of one of the other bands asked one of the guitarists if it
was a Killing Joke cover. He replied that they're all Killing Joke
covers...
Not entirely relevant, and possibly apocryphal, but I can definitely see
the connection. For the record TMIATTTT is my favourite Ministry album
(and I like Killing Joke)...
Richard Day
: on this subject, I have noticed that there are quite a number of goths who
: they still like Ministry, particularly the "Mind..." album. I never noticed
: onto something....
: ROBB
: "Those with no rights, display the right to have no lives"
I've often wondered about Ministry and The Cure. Thieves is eerily like
The Cure's The Blood (from The Head on the Door) There's more too, but I
forget. It gets me wondering what Al listens to when nobody's looking.
Pilot..
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
t o o m u c h t i m e i s w e i g h t l e s s
rd...@uoguelph.ca---------------------------------------------------------------
matthew moffett
>
> Listen to Double Dare then Lava, or Bela Lugosi's Dead then So What
> (especially the drums), for example, and tell me you can't hear *big*
> similarities.
>
> Then there's Stigmata Martyr, and Stigmata; and Burning From The Inside,
> and Burning Inside. And a few Ministry songs sound almost like they
> could be Bauhaus covers -- Tonight We Murder, Cannibal Song, Isle Of
> Man, Never Believe, Apathy for example.
>
> Tell me if you think I'm talking out of my arse, or if everyone noticed
> this years ago. It's not that I'm saying Ministry are ripping off
> Bauhaus, although there is definitely an influence there; it'd just that
> everyone says Ministry are a heavy metal band nowadays, but I don't
> think it's true. I think they're a post-punk goth band, only louder.
>
That's an interesting comparison, and probably not too far off the mark.
Bauhaus was at their height shortly before Ministry going, and they do
use a lot of similar themes in their music.I definitely agree with what
you say about Ministry not being metal, they just happen to do heavy
sounding album that appeal to that crowd (although all my metal freinds
hate the new album)
matt
Andrew Clegg
writes
>Interesting.... I know alot of Ministry's "Industrial" drum tracks were
>basically stolen from ZZ Top and sped up... slightly modified... Al was
>once complemented by their drummer and responded (para) "I would hope
>so, we stole them all from you"...
Neat... Has anyone ever noticed the, erm, 'similarity' between
Ministry's Flashback and Warm Leatherette by The Normal? Especially the
drum tracks?
I desperately want to get hold of Warm Leatherette (not the Grace Jones
version, it's too different) so I can run Flashback into it at a club
and surprise everyone who's dancing.
Andrew.
"What's the matter, Eddie, does it frighten you?"
"Frighten me? No, Frank, I think 'startle' is a better word."
NP: The Southern Death Cult -- Today [The Southern Death Cult]
Lowell Yaeger
<Sur...@warpfive.demon.co.uk> writes:
>Neat... Has anyone ever noticed the, erm, 'similarity' between
>Ministry's Flashback and Warm Leatherette by The Normal? Especially
>the drum tracks?
>
Thank God -- I thought I was the only one who noticed the dual
synth-pound in both songs. I'm convinced Ministry sampled it right out
of "Leatherette." But hey -- that's what Ministry does (or used to
do), right? Sample?
Lowell Yaeger
>Interesting.... I know alot of Ministry's "Industrial" drum tracks
>were basically stolen from ZZ Top and sped up... slightly modified...
>Al was once complemented by their drummer and responded (para) "I
>would hope so, we stole them all from you"...
>
>At Tracks last night I heard 3 different songs that had part of
>Camper VanBethoven's Pictures of Matchstick Men in them.... THAT was
>getting really annoying.....
>
Pictures of Matchstick Men was a Status Quo song. And if the melody is
that popular, get used to it -- Type O Negative is covering it on their
August release.
I don't see the Bauhaus connection; in general, I don't see much direct
connection between any one goth song and any one Ministry song.
However, the opening to "The Fall" sounds a HELL of a lot like the
opening to the Birthday Party's "The Friend-Catcher." The Smashing
Pumpkins ripped that tune off, too, pulling the guitar riff right out
of it for "Where Boys Fear To Tread."
Jeff Comtois
>
> Andrew Clegg wrote:
> >
>
> > Listen to Double Dare then Lava, or Bela Lugosi's Dead then So What
> > (especially the drums), for example, and tell me you can't hear *big*
> > similarities.
> >
> > Then there's Stigmata Martyr, and Stigmata; and Burning From The Inside,
> > and Burning Inside. And a few Ministry songs sound almost like they
> > could be Bauhaus covers -- Tonight We Murder, Cannibal Song, Isle Of
> > Man, Never Believe, Apathy for example.
> >
> > Tell me if you think I'm talking out of my arse, or if everyone noticed
> > this years ago. It's not that I'm saying Ministry are ripping off
> > Bauhaus, although there is definitely an influence there; it'd just that
> > everyone says Ministry are a heavy metal band nowadays, but I don't
> > think it's true. I think they're a post-punk goth band, only louder.
Interesting.... I know alot of Ministry's "Industrial" drum tracks were
basically stolen from ZZ Top and sped up... slightly modified... Al was
once complemented by their drummer and responded (para) "I would hope
so, we stole them all from you"...
amusing...
At Tracks last night I heard 3 different songs that had part of
Camper VanBethoven's Pictures of Matchstick Men in them.... THAT was
getting really annoying.....
--
Jev
If you cut off my head, what would I say? Me and my head, or me and my
body?
Would I have my head call itself me?
http://ravage.labs.gmu.edu/~jev/index.htm
http://ravage.labs.gmu.edu/~jev/Download/download.htm
exile
>At Tracks last night I heard 3 different songs that had part of
>Camper VanBethoven's Pictures of Matchstick Men in them.... THAT was
>getting really annoying.....
Would that be Status Quo's. "Pictures of Matchstick men?
{exile}
Andrew Clegg
In article <4r1l1t$f...@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>, Lowell Yaeger
<ber...@ix.netcom.com> writes
>
[Stigmata vs. Warm Leatherette]
>Thank God -- I thought I was the only one who noticed the dual
>synth-pound in both songs. I'm convinced Ministry sampled it right out
>of "Leatherette." But hey -- that's what Ministry does (or used to
>do), right? Sample?
I can't think of many other examples of sampling from other bands;
mostly just film/TV samples...
Andrew.
"What's the matter, Eddie, does it frighten you?"
"Frighten me? No, Frank, I think 'startle' is a better word."
NP: Pigface -- Beneath My Feet [Welcome To Mexico... Asshole]
GothND
Im Artikel <OUqEoBA6...@warpfive.demon.co.uk>, Andrew Clegg
<Sur...@warpfive.demon.co.uk> schreibt:
> it'd just that
>everyone says Ministry are a heavy metal band nowadays, but I don't
>think it's true. I think they're a post-punk goth band, only louder.
Do you remember the old Ministry songs like "Everyday is Halloween" and
that stuff? They have been a so called Newromantic Band, as Die Krupps
have been part of the Neue Deutsche Welle. I think this could explain your
impression. I do not think they have been rippin off, I just think that
their develepment was lower. And the music Minstry does is nothing more
than the music which would come out if you gave the post-punk-bands of the
80s the producers and technical possibilities, and not to forget the
lifestyle in general, of the 90s. By the way, I think this fits also on
NIN or even London After Midnight. Nowadays, what was pop or new romantic
can not develop towards punk, because the 70s punk is definitly dead. The
punk of the nineties is hardcore and industrial, what makes me a bit sad,
some way...
Anyway, this wasnt flaming, was it ??? ;)
Goth On!
Bjoerrn / Goths Not Dead! -Fanzine
E-MAIL :got...@aol.com
URL :http://members.aol.com/gothnd/gothnd.html
GOTHCODE : GoDJ7$GD5$CS5$[FA$] TPAdGl PNaSaNi M3p1 ZGoPuoFaJa C6o a21+
b81T H175 g8A w7! r6e h7 s7 k6 Rn Se[SS]WY N0396 LdeHH
Lowell Yaeger
In <Wft6hYAx...@warpfive.demon.co.uk> Andrew Clegg
<Sur...@warpfive.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
>In article <4r1l1t$f...@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>, Lowell Yaeger
><ber...@ix.netcom.com> writes
>>
>[Stigmata vs. Warm Leatherette]
>>Thank God -- I thought I was the only one who noticed the dual
>>synth-pound in both songs. I'm convinced Ministry sampled it right
>>out of "Leatherette." But hey -- that's what Ministry does (or used
>>to do), right? Sample?
>
>I can't think of many other examples of sampling from other bands;
>mostly just film/TV samples...
>
Uh... Nails, anyone? I believe "The Downward Spiral" has about 4
original pieces of music on it. And shit, Elastica doesn't even
sample, they just get the sheet music, play a couple of Wire songs, and
write their own lyrics (at least, we THINK it's their own lyrics).
Karl Schmidt
ber...@ix.netcom.com (Lowell Yaeger) wrote:
>In <Wft6hYAx...@warpfive.demon.co.uk> Andrew Clegg
><Sur...@warpfive.demon.co.uk> writes:
>>
>>In article <4r1l1t$f...@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>, Lowell Yaeger
>><ber...@ix.netcom.com> writes
>>>
>>
>>I can't think of many other examples of sampling from other bands;
>>mostly just film/TV samples...
>>
>Uh... Nails, anyone? I believe "The Downward Spiral" has about 4
>original pieces of music on it. And shit, Elastica doesn't even
>sample, they just get the sheet music, play a couple of Wire songs, and
>write their own lyrics (at least, we THINK it's their own lyrics).
The Jesus and Mary Chain sample Einstuerzende Neubauten on I think
it's "Tumbledown" from Honey's Dead.
Speaking of J&MC samples, does anyone know where they got that "He was
a degenerate's degenerate" quote from The Sound of Speed?
_____________________
"I bowed down my head and cried--I know what the whole world means:
Turpentine! Turpentine! Turpentine is Fine!"
Jim Stark, VP Design & Production
ber...@ix.netcom.com (Lowell Yaeger) wrote:
>>Andrew Clegg <Sur...@warpfive.demon.co.uk> writes:
>>I can't think of many other examples of sampling from other bands;
>>mostly just film/TV samples...
>>
>
>Uh... Nails, anyone? I believe "The Downward Spiral" has about 4
>original pieces of music on it.
what a piece of bullshit.
some people just like to bash, i guess...whatever.
--
-Stark-
E-mail: jst...@miracle.net ji...@w3tek.com jst...@juno.com
URL:http://www2.miracle.net/~jstark
Newsgroup: alt.music.nin.elitist-clique Write your sysop and subscribe.
Jason Primeau, demonstrating how to 'Get Canadian" on someone's ass:
"Gosh darnit! I really hope that you meant that is a nice way or I will
be very disappointed by such an outright display of anti-social behaviour.
Oh by the way, you have such a nice ass... We don't have those in Canada,
you know."
Andrew Clegg
In article <4r9hfg$1...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, GothND <got...@aol.com>
writes
>
>> it'd just that
>>everyone says Ministry are a heavy metal band nowadays, but I don't
>>think it's true. I think they're a post-punk goth band, only louder.
>
>Do you remember the old Ministry songs like "Everyday is Halloween" and
>that stuff?
Yes indeed. Great stuff, even if Al wouldn't agree.
>They have been a so called Newromantic Band, as Die Krupps
>have been part of the Neue Deutsche Welle. I think this could explain your
>impression.
I was actually thinking more along the lines of some of their later
stuff such as The Mind Is A Terrible Thing To Taste...
> I do not think they have been rippin off, I just think that
>their develepment was lower. And the music Minstry does is nothing more
>than the music which would come out if you gave the post-punk-bands of the
>80s the producers and technical possibilities, and not to forget the
>lifestyle in general, of the 90s.
Yep, sounds about right.
>By the way, I think this fits also on
>NIN or even London After Midnight. Nowadays, what was pop or new romantic
>can not develop towards punk, because the 70s punk is definitly dead. The
>punk of the nineties is hardcore and industrial, what makes me a bit sad,
>some way...
I don't know, there is still a fair bit of good punk rock out there.
NOFX and Bad Religion spring to mind as a couple of examples that I've
been getting into recently.
Andrew.
"What's the matter, Eddie, does it frighten you?"
"Frighten me? No, Frank, I think 'startle' is a better word."
NP: Red Lorry Yellow Lorry -- Hollow Eyes
Andrew Clegg
In article <4rc7u4$n...@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>, Lowell Yaeger
<ber...@ix.netcom.com> writes
>>
>>I can't think of many other examples of sampling from other bands;
>>mostly just film/TV samples...
>
>Uh... Nails, anyone? I believe "The Downward Spiral" has about 4
>sample, they just get the sheet music, play a couple of Wire songs, and
>write their own lyrics (at least, we THINK it's their own lyrics).
Sorry, I meant I can't think of many other examples of *Ministry*
sampling from other bands. Obviously I can think of a fair few examples
of sampling in general.
Andrew.
"What's the matter, Eddie, does it frighten you?"
"Frighten me? No, Frank, I think 'startle' is a better word."
NP: Neurosis -- Cleanse [Enemy Of The Sun]
Lowell Yaeger
In <sdIK$BAvGm...@warpfive.demon.co.uk> Andrew Clegg
<Sur...@warpfive.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
>
>Sorry, I meant I can't think of many other examples of *Ministry*
>sampling from other bands. Obviously I can think of a fair few
>examples of sampling in general.
Fair enough. The only band sampling on Ministry's part that I can
think of are the "Flashback" incident and the pulse-gun riff from
"Thieves," which was pulled from Wire's "Mr. Tuxedo"...