Singer, MBA
asi...@my-deja.com
Two heartwarming stories from IIM-Ahmedabad.
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1060402/asp/nation/story_6046364.asp
Cheers
Arun
asi...@my-deja.com
Interesting follow up by an IAS officer, who blogs. He wonders whether
the decision is a correct one, since the student took up a scarce
resource. The relevant portion is three-fourths into the following
post.
http://sadoldbong.blogspot.com/2006/04/monday-morning-mid-week.html
Cheers
Arun
Ketan
asi...@my-deja.com says...
Come on yaar, where is the relevant portion as regards this newsgroup in either
of these two links that you have posted? Simply slapping a title/header on some
link to make it musically relevant is something we expect from the likes of
Rawat, not you. He is known to put lipstick on himself and pass himself off as a
pig, when in reality he is an ass, but et tu?
This link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/03/AR2006040301938.html
is more relevant(as regards SaReGaMaPa and Idol-2) and I had doubts on whether
to even post this one.
Ketan
--
NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth
UVR
> In article <1144170255.4...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> asi...@my-deja.com says...
> >
> >asi...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Two heartwarming stories from IIM-Ahmedabad.
> >>
> >> http://www.telegraphindia.com/1060402/asp/nation/story_6046364.asp
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >> Arun
> >
> >Interesting follow up by an IAS officer, who blogs. He wonders whether
> >the decision is a correct one, since the student took up a scarce
> >resource. The relevant portion is three-fourths into the following
> >post.
> >
> >http://sadoldbong.blogspot.com/2006/04/monday-morning-mid-week.html
>
> Come on yaar, where is the relevant portion as regards this newsgroup in either
> of these two links that you have posted? Simply slapping a title/header on some
> link to make it musically relevant is something we expect from the likes of
> Rawat, not you. He is known to put lipstick on himself and pass himself off as a
> pig, when in reality he is an ass, but et tu?
I don't know that Arun is guilty of what you are accusing him of doing.
There is some mention of a musician in the Telegraph report. To wit:
>> Sarath's classmate Gaurav Dagaonkar shared the spotlight. The
>> Mumbai boy, too, has turned his back on corporate jobs to follow
>> his life's passion - music.
>>
>> [N.R. Narayana] Murthy today released a demo album by Gaurav,
>> who was the campus cultural secretary, sang for a local band called
>> Zaahir and had designed a studio in his hostel.
I am not saying that this makes it 100% relevant to RMIM, I'm just
refuting your allegation about "simply slapping", etc.
> This link
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/03/AR2006040301938.html
>
> is more relevant(as regards SaReGaMaPa and Idol-2) and I had doubts on whether
> to even post this one.
Well, you *have* posted it. And who really cares about relevance
these days?
-UVR.
Deepak Sabnis
news:1144170255.4...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
The IAS officer is confused and does not understand the purpose of college
education.
Deepak
asi...@my-deja.com
Hi Ketan,
The Telegraph India story had a snippet on one of the IIM grads
releasing a CD. The relevant part of the blog post talks about whether
the student took up a scarce resource (IIM education) and did other
(potential IIM applicants) a disfavour by opting out of the MBA program
and pursuing a career in singing.
Imho, I still think it is a valid discussion for RMIM.
Cheers
Arun
asi...@my-deja.com
Now this is slightly off-topic
..in what sense? I think his point is that at least government
subsidised education should ensure that there is some return on
investment. He does have a point. i.e. no problems with anyone becoming
a singer, but what about the poor taxpayer whose money went into making
that guy an MBA/doctor etc?
Arun
UVR
> Deepak Sabnis wrote:
> >
> > The IAS officer is confused and does not understand the purpose of college
> > education.
> >
> > Deepak
>
> Now this is slightly off-topic
>
> ..in what sense? I think his point is that at least government
> subsidised education should ensure that there is some return on
> investment. He does have a point. i.e. no problems with anyone becoming
> a singer, but what about the poor taxpayer whose money went into making
> that guy an MBA/doctor etc?
I think Deepak's point (with which I do not disagree) is that the
purpose of
college education (among other things) is to teach you enough to
understand
and figure out what you want to do in life. Just because you went to
college
to get an MBBS does not mean you should be expected to become a
physician
and not a masseur! What if you can only be the most inept doctor?
That the taxpayer paid for said education has nothing to do with
anything.
-UVR.
Deepak Sabnis
news:1144178673.6...@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
I apologize since this is not related to RMIM. However, UVR made my point
better than I could have. College education is different from trade schools
(that prepare people for trade like a mechanic, carpenter etc.). When people
work and pay taxes, they pay the subsidy to educate current generation of
students, who grow up and pay taxes and subsidize next generation and so on.
But subsidy is not the point. You have to let people do what they want to
do. College education is just one tool. What we should encourage is a
mindset to make a contribution (through work, charity and otherwise).
Sorry again for an off topic discussion.
Deepak
Hema
Why just MBAs or doctors? The same tax payers money is used for other
educational pursuits also, frequently without ROI. What about all the
people who major in envir sc, geology, comp sc, accounting, literature,
arts, etc and either do not work or have jobs that have nothing to do
with their majors. There are countless women who have pursued higher
education but opt to choose family over career at some point in their
life. Do you think they shouldn't have gone to college? Then there are
people who get their education in one country and work in another.
Their numbers might even be greater than those getting into alternative
careers. Are you sure you want to indulge into this kind of discussion
on this forum? :-)
Hema.
asi...@my-deja.com
Oh, he was not stating that there should be a restriction on trade. I
don't think so either. Bonds etc are inherently restrictive. [That's
why I never worked for TCS. :-)]
My take on it has to do with the govt's involvement, in diverting other
scarce resources (citizen's money) to fund something that may not
eventually materialise as a benefit to citizenry as it was intended. I
haven't made my mind up on that yet.
Anyway, this is OT, so I'll zip up.
Cheers
Arun
asi...@my-deja.com
Exactly. You made my point. :-)
>There are countless women who have pursued higher
> education but opt to choose family over career at some point in their
> life. Do you think they shouldn't have gone to college?
Not at all, I respect individual liberty greatly. People are and should
be free to decide what they want to do without the interference of the
likes of Pol Pot, Stalin or Yechury-Karat. Its just that I haven't made
up my mind whether taxpayer funds should be used to subsidise higher
education -whether it be medicine or fine arts. It does have to do with
individual liberty - of determining where his/her hard earned money
ought to be used. (1)
>Then there are
> people who get their education in one country and work in another.
> Their numbers might even be greater than those getting into alternative
> careers. Are you sure you want to indulge into this kind of discussion
> on this forum? :-)
>
> Hema.
(1) Though a relevant topic of discussion on RMIM is related to the
above topic, and that is the issue of national awards, D.Litt
'honorary' degrees and other displays of patronage that is made with
taxpayer money. What do RMIMers think about them, especially in the
post-liberalisation era when there are many award ceremonies. Who is
part of the committee that decides upon these "national" awards? Are
they elected? Who are they accountable to? Why is their website so
awful? :-)
[It is relevant since there is an ongoing thread on the topic of
Kishore Kumar having never won a national award.]
Cheers
Arun
Binod Thapa
> Rawat, not you is known to put lipstick on himself and pass himself off as
> a
> pig, when in reality he is an ass, but et tu?
I think that this is uncalled for right now. Such demeaning
comparisons/provocatios can only generate a string of name calling. Perhaps
we need to start another thread in another corner where anyone can vent
his/her frustrations/bitterness/grievances/steam and those who do not have
the stomach for such juicy undertakings can steer themselves miles away from
such threads.
Another thing is that if "Rawat ... is known to...." then this is already
stale news -- what new information are you passing that would benefit the NG
members unless it were done to derive some queer sadistic pleasure by
lampooing a fellow RMIMer? Have we turned ourselves into cannibals that
attack their own fellow beings?
Just pause for a second and ponder about the issues I have raised? You might
only be joking but then the joke appears to me at the expense of someone
else.
Binod.
Binod.
Binod Thapa
<asi...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1144176149.1...@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
>
> The Telegraph India story had a snippet on one of the IIM grads
> releasing a CD. The relevant part of the blog post talks about whether
> the student took up a scarce resource (IIM education) and did other
> (potential IIM applicants) a disfavour by opting out of the MBA program
> and pursuing a career in singing.
>
I did just the opposite, by giving up music for engg. Now instead of a
career, music has become my hobby.
> Cheers
> Arun
>
Binod.
Binod Thapa
once in a while you get a Monet, Rembrandt, or Picasso painting that sells
for millions. But it is not really the intrinsic value of the art that is
weighed out in such an auction. In the auction the piece of art is really an
excuse for the bidder to flout his/her ill-gotten recent wealth when s/he
tries to gain respectability in society by showing that s/he really is a
very discerning and caring patron of the arts by offering ridiculously high
bids.
For the most parts the horror stories of talented and dedicated artists
starving on the streets of Paris are too common place to be items that are
news worthy.
For commercial art, which I would prefer to call mongrel art, the
correlation bewteen econmics and art is pretty palpable. But here we are
already talking of a lower form of art and are altogether in a different
realm.
Any comments?
Binod.
"Deepak Sabnis" <deepak...@hp.com> wrote in message
news:WXzYf.5813$f_6....@news.cpqcorp.net...
asi...@my-deja.com
Binod Thapa wrote:
> The correlation between economics and real art is tenous at the best. Yes,
> once in a while you get a Monet, Rembrandt, or Picasso painting that sells
> for millions. But it is not really the intrinsic value of the art that is
> weighed out in such an auction. In the auction the piece of art is really an
> excuse for the bidder to flout his/her ill-gotten recent wealth when s/he
> tries to gain respectability in society by showing that s/he really is a
> very discerning and caring patron of the arts by offering ridiculously high
> bids.
>
<snipped>
While an artist (say a HFM songwriter) may create a work of art or
poetry to find an outlet for expression, economics makes it possible
for it to be accessed by people. Naipaul made this point far better
than I ever can:
http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/wl1990.htm
==
But books are not created just in the mind. Books are physical objects.
To write them, you need a certain kind of sensibility; you need a
language, and a certain gift of language; and you need to possess a
particular literary form. To get your name on the spine of the created
physical object, you need a vast apparatus outside yourself. You need
publishers, editors, designers, printers, binder; booksellers, critics,
newspapers and magazines and television where the critics can say what
they think of the book; and, of course, buyers and readers.
I want to stress this mundane side of things, because it is easy to
take it for granted; it is easy to think of writing only in its
personal, romantic aspect. Writing is a private act; but the published
book, when it starts to live, speaks of the cooperation of a particular
kind of society. The society has a certain degree of commercial
organization. It also has certain cultural or imaginative needs. It
doesn't believe that all poetry has already been written. It needs new
stimuli, new writing; and it has the means of judging the new things
that are offered.
==
Cheers
Arun
Ketan
asi...@my-deja.com says...
< Non-musical stuff deleted >
Since you are back at expounding your nonsense on here, let me finally post the
response I had drafted but had refrained from posting until now, thinking you
would acquire some sense. May I suggest that since you seem very fond of seeing
your words online, that you start your own personal blog. It might help you from
trying to turn RMIM into one. It might also assist you in your
wanna-be-an-intellectual quest. Ofcourse for that you will need to master a
basic rule: writing on topics relevant.
To UVR
>I don't know that Arun is guilty of what you are accusing him of doing.
>There is some mention of a musician in the Telegraph report. To wit:
>>> Sarath's classmate Gaurav Dagaonkar shared the spotlight. The
>>> Mumbai boy, too, has turned his back on corporate jobs to follow
>>> his life's passion - music.
>>>
>>> [N.R. Narayana] Murthy today released a demo album by Gaurav,
>>> who was the campus cultural secretary, sang for a local band called
>>> Zaahir and had designed a studio in his hostel.
>
>I am not saying that this makes it 100% relevant to RMIM, I'm just
>refuting your allegation about "simply slapping", etc.
100%? It's less than 10% relevant. The original article of 48 lines (excluding
the headline) is about an idli vendor who went to IIM and is now opening a
catering company. Yet the title of Arun’s post would make one think, it was all
about a singer who gave up music to do an MBA (or vice-versa), which has only 4
lines that are devoted to the section you quote above. If not “simply slapping”
than it’s definitely a case of “false advertising”. Hopefully you will find
that accusation more palatable, since you are nit-picking. Given that he has
since then shamelessly carved out his own sub-topic(which is not even the
subject of the article) and continued writing on it after having declared it
himself as OT, I wonder what his real intentions were when he posted this
article.
>> This link
>>
>>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/03/AR2006040301938.html
>>
>>is more relevant (as regards SaReGaMaPa and Idol-2) and I had doubts on whether
>> to even post this one.
>
>Well, you *have* posted it.
Yes, and I posted it in the evening, despite having read it in the morning. I
wrestled with the decision on whether to post it, all day long, because on the
one hand it fits in with the posts that you guys make, regarding the voting
shenanigans on SRGMP and II2. At least the posts discussing the singing were
about music. Voting patterns on a musical contest show are even less about
music. So if you saw that as relevant, than so was my post above. And yet as I
said, I was unsure on whether to post it and held it back till Arun went OT.
> And who really cares about relevance these days?
Well you certainly can’t be accused of being relevant. Not after your
distinguished record of endless discourses on ITRANS grammar and syntax. However
for the record, some of us still do care about relevance. Perhaps you are being
choosy about when you want your postings to be relevant, since just recently in
January you had this to say:
“If by "this" you mean non-music related political commentary and
discussion related to it, then I agree, it should be taken out of RMIM.”
One would think you would know better. But then despite having been on here for
more than 10 years you had to be told by a newbie to take your Sun Java applet
discussion with Animesh off-line.
To Arun:
>Hi Ketan,
>
>The Telegraph India story had a snippet on one of the IIM grads
>releasing a CD. The relevant part of the blog post talks about whether
>the student took up a scarce resource (IIM education) and did other
> (potential IIM applicants) a disfavour by opting out of the MBA program
>and pursuing a career in singing.
>
>Imho, I still think it is a valid discussion for RMIM.
Your H.O is wrong. How are someone’s career choices and its impact on
socio-economic policy anywhere close to being a discussion on music? By your
logic, one should even discuss the impact on the inflation seen in the price of
brass, copper and iron filings which go into making the ghatam ever since Vikku
popularized it. If you want to simply tie everything to music, you could always
do so, but have some sense. I have no problems if you want to surf a 1000 sites
a day, but not everything you come across needs to be deposited on here. This
isn’t your personal loo. While one can ignore or even accept an occasional OT
post like posting pictures of Shabana at Davos or an obituary to Wing Cdr.
Mulky, all this non-music related political commentary (see UVR’s words above)
is really not fit for RMIM.
Even your attempt to tie the KK-National Award thread into a discussion on the
use of taxpayer money for awards is on flimsy grounds. The topic again falls
into the realm of political commentary, but even if allowances were made for
discussing it, your logic is faulty. The KK discussion is centered around two
specific songs: KK’s Kora Kagaz song vs Mukesh’s Rajnigandha song. You are
nowhere close to music in your attempted discussion of National awards.
You seem to be suffering from an ailment called Surjit Singh's disease--i.e: how
to reach a target of 20-25 posts per day on RMIM, damn the relevance. At one
point your posts made for interesting reading. Now they mainly fall into two
categories: 1) Links or 2)writings on topics that have nothing to do with music.
Like him you are well on the way to becoming only occassionally useful.
asi...@my-deja.com
Ketan,
Sure, I'll freely admit that there are times I have made off-topic
posts. In future, I'll try to limit, if not eliminate them altogether.
However, this particular thread was related to music and I see it there
were others who thought as much and were interested. The thread related
to educational policy was OT, but Binod's post on the valuation of an
artistic endeavour was not. I replied to Binod's post.
I am certainly fascinated with the background, history, and other
interesting facets that affect Indian music and I hope RMIM does not
restrict itself purely to tunes and lyrics. I do believe that there is
great relevance in discussing topics that affect the artiste's creative
output. However, you seem to disagree. Let us leave it at that.
Why have a vitriolic argument over such divergent views? Isn't RMIM big
enough for both our viewpoints?
Cheers
Arun
UVR
>
> >> This link
> >>
> >>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/03/AR2006040301938.html
> >>
> >>is more relevant (as regards SaReGaMaPa and Idol-2) and I had doubts on whether
> >> to even post this one.
> >
> >Well, you *have* posted it.
>
> Yes, and I posted it in the evening, despite having read it in the morning. I
> wrestled with the decision on whether to post it, all day long, because on the
> one hand it fits in with the posts that you guys make, regarding the voting
> shenanigans on SRGMP and II2. At least the posts discussing the singing were
> about music. Voting patterns on a musical contest show are even less about
> music. So if you saw that as relevant, than so was my post above. And yet as I
> said, I was unsure on whether to post it and held it back till Arun went OT.
<lots of drivel snipped>
Ah, so, it's okay if the self-appointed relevance-policeman makes
an OT post after (as you say) you have "wrestled with the decision"
even though you (a) are not interested in the topic and (b) freely
admit that the topic is not RMIM relevant (by your own criteria,
not anyone else's).
And your justification is that you were just responding to an OT
article posted by someone else? [BS! By that token, all of that
Java/Mozilla/Firefox-related discussion is acceptable because it
was occasioned by a post made by someone else before me and
I was just responded to it!]
If you really, truly, want to stand apart from the rest of us as a
paragon of on-topic posting virtue, then stop making these off-
topic posts yourself. Otherwise, can the hypocritical preaching.
-UVR.
Ketan
>Ah, so, it's okay if the self-appointed relevance-policeman makes
>an OT post after (as you say) you have "wrestled with the decision"
>even though you (a) are not interested in the topic and (b) freely
>admit that the topic is not RMIM relevant (by your own criteria,
>not anyone else's).
I am sorry but I am not responsible for your low reading skills. Please go back
and read what I have written carefully. I know you don't care about relevance
but it is important once in a while.
>And your justification is that you were just responding to an OT
>article posted by someone else? [BS! By that token, all of that
>Java/Mozilla/Firefox-related discussion is acceptable because it
>was occasioned by a post made by someone else before me and
>I was just responded to it!]
BS is right! I posted a link, and that too, to make a point. I specifically did
NOT post the article in its entirety for that exact same reason. On the other
hand, you specifically responded to a post that was already OT, sought
information and further expanded on it to make it even more OT. See below:
{
Animesh Kumar wrote:
> Good effort with the book; but this website is just *yuck*. Who told the
> designer to use SUN Java for displaying a changing menu and a menu?
>
> It just kills millions of slow-processor machines.
What browser, platform (OS, processor) and Java version are you using?
-UVR.
PS: The site is not using "Sun" Java. Just Java applets. What your
browser ends up invoking on your local system depends on your
configuration.
}
There is a world of difference in what you have done and what I posted
yesterday. It's hard to believe that you can tell the difference between "maut
bhi aati nahi" and "jaan bhi jaati nahi" and yet cannot comprehend such simple
things. Either the person discussing that song was your intelligent twin or you
have a damn good explanation on why you chose not to start that discussion with
Animesh off-line.
>If you really, truly, want to stand apart from the rest of us as a
>paragon of on-topic posting virtue, then stop making these off-
>topic posts yourself. Otherwise, can the hypocritical preaching.
Telling people that their post's are OT is now OT itself? Wow! What next! How
about posts announcing RJGK's and RMIM meets? Aren't they OT too?
Ketan
asi...@my-deja.com says...
Arun,
>I am certainly fascinated with the background, history, and other
>interesting facets that affect Indian music and I hope RMIM does not
>restrict itself purely to tunes and lyrics. I do believe that there is
>great relevance in discussing topics that affect the artiste's creative
>output. However, you seem to disagree. Let us leave it at that.
You are right, I am wrong. I misunderstood the intention behind your last post.
The topic you outline above is one that even I am interested in. Please continue
the discussion.
Binod Thapa
exist in a vacuum and still continue to be sustained.
Binod.
<asi...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1144257814.7...@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...