What is Tamizh?
CHANDRA VINJAMURI
What is Tamizh? Isn't it Tamil?
--
U.V. Ravindra
CHANDRA VINJAMURI wrote:
>
> What is Tamizh? Isn't it Tamil?
No, actually, it is Thamizh :-) :-)) Well, at least that's the way
90% of 'Tamilians' would spell it in English. But seriously, the
name of the language is NOT Tami*l*. It is Tamizh. 'Tamil' is
what the 'angrez' rulers transliterated it as.
By this token, may be the name of soc.culture.tamil should be changed
to soc.culture.thamizh ... I'm not about to enter that kind of a
controversy, however :))
Ravindra.
CHANDRA VINJAMURI
Pankaj Kakkar (pan...@gradient.cis.upenn.edu) wrote:
: GANESH RAMESH wrote:
: >
: > The actual word is "Tamizh" and is pronounced so but for`
: > the purposes of writing, it is written Tamil - dont ask
: > me why they do it. When talking, it is pronounced as Tamizh. And
: > the alphabet for the phonetic "zh" exits only in the language
: > "tamizh"...
: I might be wrong (I probably am), and this is the opinion of an
: uninformed Punjabi (:)), but the way I pronounce the "zh" sound is
: somewhere in between 'D.' (as in saD.ak) and 'l' (as in laal). So why
: not write Dl instead of zh?
: --
: Pankaj Kakkar http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~pankaj
: --------------------------------------------------------
: Office: Home:
: PhD Student 3620 Baring St
: CIS Dept., Apt No 2R
: School of Engineering and Applied Sciences Philadelphia
: University of Pennsylvania, PA 19104 PA 19104
: USA. USA
: (215) 898 8116 (215) 386 5156
: Ever tried washing your car to force rain to fall?
: Doesn't happen. Murphy's law is recursive.
--
Isn't there atleast one similar pronunciation of 'zh' either in Hindi,
English or Sanskrit out there?
I still don't understand how 'Tamizh' is pronunced? Don't ask me
why I am so curious :-)
Chandra...
Shams Chowdhury
I think Tamil and Marathi are the only teo languages
that have 'zh'. In fact 'zh' is the only additional
letter in Marathi which is not in Hindi script(Devnagari).
Hemlata N Khemani
> >Isn't there atleast one similar pronunciation of 'zh' either in Hindi,
> >English or Sanskrit out there?
>
> I think Tamil and Marathi are the only teo languages
> that have 'zh'. In fact 'zh' is the only additional
> letter in Marathi which is not in Hindi script(Devnagari).
Sanskrit has the so called "zh" too, if I understand correctly what
alphabet you are talking about. Both in Sanskrit and marathi, I have
seen it as being transliterated as "La", so "zh" sounds totally
counter-intuitive to me. I guess this alphabet is the one that is
written like a 180 deg. rotated 8 figure in devnagiri. Its
pronunciation is close to ".Da" as in "dau.D". Is "tamizh" a widely and
commonly accepted form of transliteration in 'tamiL' language?
Hema.
Padmanabhan Ganesan
>
> I think Tamil and Marathi are the only teo languages
> that have 'zh'. In fact 'zh' is the only additional
> letter in Marathi which is not in Hindi script(Devnagari).
>
> >why I am so curious :-)
> >
> >Chandra...
> >
> >
I didn't Marathi had this letter. Malayalam has this letter too. I
thought only Tamil and Malayalam had this letter.
The contents of this message express only the sender's opinion.
This message does not necessarily reflect the policy or views of
my employer, Merck & Co., Inc. All responsibility for the statements
made in this Usenet posting resides solely and completely with the
sender.
Hema
I am posting this on behalf of Vish Krishnan.
-Hema.
--------------------------------------------------------
Hemlata N Khemani wrote:
>
> > >Isn't there atleast one similar pronunciation of 'zh' either in Hindi,
> > >English or Sanskrit out there?
> >
> > I think Tamil and Marathi are the only teo languages
> > that have 'zh'. In fact 'zh' is the only additional
> > letter in Marathi which is not in Hindi script(Devnagari).
>
> Sanskrit has the so called "zh" too, if I understand correctly what
> alphabet you are talking about. Both in Sanskrit and marathi, I have
> seen it as being transliterated as "La", so "zh" sounds totally
> counter-intuitive to me. I guess this alphabet is the one that is
> written like a 180 deg. rotated 8 figure in devnagiri. Its
> pronunciation is close to ".Da" as in "dau.D". Is "tamizh" a widely and
> commonly accepted form of transliteration in 'tamiL' language?
>
> Hema.
The "La" you are referring to is not the same as the
tamizh "zh". Just for the record, tamizh has a "la",
a "La", and a "zha". The "zh" is a convenience, and
the English equivalent sound bears no resemblance to
the intended tamizh sound.
Marathi does not have a corresponding consonant. It
does have a "La", as you say.
So what is this "zh"? It is somewhat of a cross between
a "ya" and the "La".
There are numerous such transliteration attempts across the
world for "strange" consonant sounds. I can't resist talking
about the "xh" from the xhosa language of South Africa. I
don't believe xhosa has a script (I don't really know for sure),
but Miriam Makeba, my dearest world singer, has several CDs
out with xhosa song tracks. A few people have attempted to
transliterate those lyrics to the English alphabet, and that
one sound, that distinctly Bantu and Zulu consonant, has
become "xh" by default. It is a tough sound to master. Children
are trained in that special art, often through nursery rhymes
specially tailored to this end. In one of her '80s releases,
M. Makeba sings one such kiddie song. It is beautiful.
cheers
vish
U.V. Ravindra
> GANESH RAMESH wrote:
> >
> > The actual word is "Tamizh" and is pronounced so but for`
> > the purposes of writing, it is written Tamil - dont ask
> > me why they do it. When talking, it is pronounced as Tamizh. And
> > the alphabet for the phonetic "zh" exits only in the language
> > "tamizh"...
Nothing could be further from the truth. An alphabet for the
SAME EXACT sound exists in Malayalam.
Pankaj Kakkar wrote:
>
> I might be wrong (I probably am), and this is the opinion of an
> uninformed Punjabi (:)), but the way I pronounce the "zh" sound is
> somewhere in between 'D.' (as in saD.ak) and 'l' (as in laal). So why
> not write Dl instead of zh?
Hmm ... actually the usual example I give for a closer approximation
to the correct pronunciation of the "Z" sound of Tamil is the
American rolled "R". Just say "ameRican", and note the relative
positions of your tongue and palate, and replace is to say TamiR.
:))
I know this is sacrilege and Tamil fanatics are going to kill me for
this :) Which is why I'm posting it on RMIM and not on SCT.
Ravindra.
Despite the fact that it's not really RMIM relevant.