Looking for articles on Sahir Ludhiyanavi - Hindi/English
Kishore Sampat
I'm planning to do a radio program on 'Sahir Ludhiyanavi' this weekend
(Mar 09) on a not-for-profit university campus/community based radio
station in Ottawa, Canada. I am, therefore, looking for any
information on Sahir Ludhiyanavi in Hindi and/or English.
Any suggestion, direction and assistance is greatly appreciated.
Warmest Regards,
"Kish"
ksa...@rogers.com
Surjit Singh
http://www.urdupoetry.com/profile/sahir.html
--
Surjit Singh, a diehard movie fan(atic), period.
http://hindi-movies-songs.com/index.html
Amit Malhotra
news:8c153840.03030...@posting.google.com...
> Hi Folks,
>
> I'm planning to do a radio program on 'Sahir Ludhiyanavi' this weekend
> (Mar 09) on a not-for-profit university campus/community based radio
> station in Ottawa, Canada. I am, therefore, looking for any
> information on Sahir Ludhiyanavi in Hindi and/or English.
>
> Any suggestion, direction and assistance is greatly appreciated.
An open question for anybody actually:
-Is it fair to say that Sahir actually became hit and recognized after Pyasa
(Guru Dutt, 1957)??
I mean I loved every single song in Pyasa, it was beautifully rendered by
SDB and the words along with the poetry recited throughout the movie was
just beautiful. Sahir sure had a way with words as a few of you were
discussing in the recent thread.
oh and Mr. Sampat, for a few good poems of Sahir, you should definitely
visit www.urdupoetry.com as suggested by Dr. Singh. one of his nazm which
is one of my personal favourite is "kisii ko udaas dekh kar"... the version
on the site has a few mistakes.
Regards,
Amit Malhotra
> Warmest Regards,
>
> "Kish"
> ksa...@rogers.com
Satish Kalra
news:KjT8a.18036$cB3....@nnrp1.uunet.ca...
> "Kishore Sampat" <ksa...@rogers.com> wrote in message
> news:8c153840.03030...@posting.google.com...
> > Hi Folks,
> >
> > I'm planning to do a radio program on 'Sahir Ludhiyanavi' this weekend
> > (Mar 09) on a not-for-profit university campus/community based radio
> > station in Ottawa, Canada. I am, therefore, looking for any
> > information on Sahir Ludhiyanavi in Hindi and/or English.
> >
> > Any suggestion, direction and assistance is greatly appreciated.
>
> An open question for anybody actually:
>
> -Is it fair to say that Sahir actually became hit and recognized after
Pyasa
> (Guru Dutt, 1957)??
He was already a hit and recognized, immediately after Baazii (1951) and
Jaal (1952), at least in the film industry itself.
As far as the general public is concerned (I would like to add here in
parentheses that even I myself never paid any attention to the lyricists'
names on the records in those days; only to the names of the singers), we
have to keep in mind that in those days the only radio source for hearing
film songs on a daily basis was Radio Ceylon; added somewhat by Delhi
station of the All India Radio, which used to broadcast film songs only
about once or twice a week. Even so, songs like "..o re
jiinewaale.....sonaa naa, khonaa naa...." weren't aired by them (AIR). And
the only names that were announced on radio broadcasts were the film's title
and the singer - this includes Radio Cyelon. It was Vividh Bharati which
started announcing the names of the lyricists and the MDs also when they
started in late 1956 or early 1957. And Pyaasaa is an early 1957 release.
Three years earlier, SDB and Sahir had combined to give a hit score in Taxi
Driver, including the Filmfare award winner song in "jaayen to jaayen
kahaan...".
One should also keep in mind that with each passing day (in that era), more
and more people were adding to the radio listeners' population; buying
gramophones and records; as well as subscribing to, or at least reading (on
a rental basis) to film related magazines. All these factors may have
combined to make his a household name with Pyaasaa, if that's what is meant
by "Sahir actually became hit and recognized after Pyasa".
...rest snipped...
--
Happy Listenings.
Satish Kalra
Sudhir
Sahir and S.D. Burman's working relations.
Sahir felt that SDB didn't provide the right tune for his landmark
nazm 'Chakle' (set to song as: Jinhe Naaz Hai Hind Par Woh Kahan Hain)
and vowed not to work with SDB again. He was certainly wrong about
Burman Da's contribution, who didn't care about his own ego and
provided the perfect tune, to highlight the poetry rather than the
music.
Sahir was a well-known and highly respected shair, even before he
penned his first song for films. Pyaasa is a wrap-around story,
i.e.: the story line was created to include the songs and few
couplets, rather the other way around. Besides Pyaasa, Sadhana &
Gumrah are the other two films, where story line was created, to
include Sahir's pre-published nazms, which were set to songs as:
Aurat Ne Janam Diya (Sadhna) and Chalo Ik Baar Phir Se (Gumrah).
Sahir's longest association was with Chopra brothers, Baldev Raj
(B.R. Films) and Yash (YashRaj Films). If I am not mistaken, until
his death, he wrote the lyrics for all or B.R. Films, starting
with Sadhna and some of YashRaj film , i.e.: Kabhi Kabhi.
Besides, Sachin Dev Burman, music director N. Dutta and Khayyam created
some very good songs for Sahir's compositions. And of course,
there is more-or-less one film association with O.P. Nayyar - Sone Ki
Chidya.
Sudhir
-------------------
"Amit Malhotra" <am...@bollyvista.com> wrote in message >
> -Is it fair to say that Sahir actually became hit and recognized after Pyasa
> (Guru Dutt, 1957)??
> I mean I loved every single song in Pyasa, it was beautifully rendered by
> SDB and the words along with the poetry recited throughout the movie was
> just beautiful. Sahir sure had a way with words as a few of you were
> discussing in the recent thread.
>
>
> Amit Malhotra
>
UVR
>
> Besides, Sachin Dev Burman, music director N. Dutta and Khayyam created
> some very good songs for Sahir's compositions. And of course,
> there is more-or-less one film association with O.P. Nayyar - Sone Ki
> Chidya.
Not true. Naya Daur, Tumsa Nahin Dekha, 12 O' Clock (any more?)
are also by OPN+Sahir.
Roshan+Sahir (Taj Mahal, Babur, Barsat Ki Rat, Chitralekha ...)
also have some rather memorable songs, though not in as many
films as Sahir+SDB.
Ravi+Sahir also have several highly popular songs (of which
a few are quite good too :P).
-UVR.
animesh kumar
it BRF), and so on till Nikaah, when Sahir passed away, and Hasan kamaal got
a chance. From Yash Chopra, he worked with Khayyaam on "kabhi kabhi" and
"trishul" . Perhaps Kala pathhar was also Yash Chopra's, in which case he
was with rajesh roshan.
Jaidev - Sahir have "Hum Dono", "joru ka bhai" and "mujhe jeene do (?,
having the song raat bhi hai kuchh bheegi bheegi").
Khayyaam has only 5 films with Sahir, though all have been memorable.
Khayyaam in his interview to a magazine (AV Max) told that he enjoyed
working most with Sahir. Phir Subah Hogi, Shagun, Chambal ki kasam, kabhi
kabhi and trishul
best regards
animesh
PS: N Dutta has many movies with Sahir.
>
> -UVR.
>
Nimish
news:e32c7906.03030...@posting.google.com...
> Sahir was a well-known and highly respected shair, even before he
> penned his first song for films. Pyaasa is a wrap-around story,
> i.e.: the story line was created to include the songs and few
> couplets, rather the other way around. Besides Pyaasa, Sadhana &
> Gumrah are the other two films, where story line was created, to
> include Sahir's pre-published nazms, which were set to songs as:
> Aurat Ne Janam Diya (Sadhna) and Chalo Ik Baar Phir Se (Gumrah).
>
Is it true that Sahir used to consider himself more important than the
music director for a film and used to demand compensation 1 rupee more
than the music director?
- Nimish
Ritu
Adding to that question, Isn't it true that the Sahir/SDB split
happened not because Sahir was dissatisfied with Dada's tuning of
'Chakle' but because he felt he deserved the credit for Pyaasa? My
impression was that the Sahir/SDB was more clash of ego than a
creative dissatisfaction.
Somewhere I had read that OPN also broke off with Sahir because of his
arrogance. OPN said in that interview that Sahir came to him and
bragged that he had made the career of SD Burman. OPN said if he could
say that about SD Burman he could say it about me as well (something
to that affect).
-Ritu
Pulkit
> The old reliable urdupoetry.com:
>
> http://www.urdupoetry.com/profile/sahir.html
>
> Kishore Sampat wrote:
> >
> > > > Any suggestion, direction and assistance is greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Warmest Regards,
> >
> > "Kish"
> > ksa...@rogers.com
Hi, Kishore, sahir remained unmarried throughout his life.He developed
differences with lata, when he told everybody that for every song he
writes,he will charge one more rupee than lata.Thus, in late 60's he
got few assignments because of these ego hassels. To overcome these he
started promoting Sudha Malhotra, a singer whom he was courting at
this time, but this trick too did not yield good results.Nenertheless
a die-hard fan like yash chopra extracted superb work from sahir
during this phase-
"main pal do pal ka shair hoon, pal do pal meri hasti hai"
Vijay Kumar K
> Sudhir wrote:
> >
> > Besides, Sachin Dev Burman, music director N. Dutta and Khayyam created
> > some very good songs for Sahir's compositions. And of course,
> > there is more-or-less one film association with O.P. Nayyar - Sone Ki
> > Chidya.
>
> Not true. Naya Daur, Tumsa Nahin Dekha, 12 O' Clock (any more?)
> are also by OPN+Sahir.
>
> Roshan+Sahir (Taj Mahal, Babur, Barsat Ki Rat, Chitralekha ...)
> also have some rather memorable songs, though not in as many
> films as Sahir+SDB.
>
> Ravi+Sahir also have several highly popular songs (of which
> a few are quite good too :P).
>
> -UVR.
Another memorable collaboration is Anil Biswas + Sahir - Doraha & Char Dil
Char Rahen spring to mind immediately.
Other not so outstanding collaborations - RD (The Burning Train, Aa Gale Lag
Jaa). Laxmi-Pyare (Daag, Izzat), Rajesh Roshan (Kala Patthar), Hridaynath
(Dhanwan)
Vijay
Sudhir
==================
Yes, Sahir Did write all the songs for Naya Daur. But most of
the credit for making them enjoyable is to Nayyar Saheb.
Tumsa Nahin Dekha: Both Hindi Film Geet Kosh (HFGK) + HMV (on LP/Tapes, CDSs)
have given credit for the song: Tumsa Nahin Dekha to Sahir. I have
serious reservations about this. As per my notes (made in 1968-70
from radio announcement, this song also was written by Majrooh. I had
posted a query at this forum many months back, for someone to
x-check it with original 78rpm record (not the EP or LP, but haven't
received any response. I am almost 99% sure that my notes are correct.
Another song for which I had found error in both of the above listed
sources is the song: Hum Tujh Se Mohabbat Kar Ke Sanam / AWAARA,
which has been wrongly credited to Shailendra. The error has been
corrected in the 2nd edition of HFGK. The song was written by Hasrat
12 O'Clock, Sahir wrote only 2 songs, including Dekh Idhar Ae Hasina,
again OPN deserves more credit for this song. Even a person with
just basic knowledge of Hindi / Urdu can understand it fully - June
Ka Hai Mahina ... Aa Raha Hai Pasina (I like it it a lot - Thank you
Nayyar Saheb)
I did mention that Sahir - OPN assosiation is memorable for
more-or less for one film
============
Sudhir
---------------------------
UVR <u...@usa.net> wrote in message news:<3E64C146...@usa.net>...
vibhendu
> "Nimish" <WarAgai...@asu.edu> wrote in message news:<b4315i$1qv388$1...@ID-158630.news.dfncis.de>...
> > "Sudhir" <maild...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:e32c7906.03030...@posting.google.com...
> >
> > > Sahir was a well-known and highly respected shair, even before he
> > > penned his first song for films. Pyaasa is a wrap-around story,
> > > i.e.: the story line was created to include the songs and few
> > > couplets, rather the other way around.
Besides Pyaasa, Sadhana &
> > > Gumrah are the other two films, where story line was created, to
> > > include Sahir's pre-published nazms, which were set to songs as:
> > > Aurat Ne Janam Diya (Sadhna) and Chalo Ik Baar Phir Se (Gumrah).
Even, Amitabh bachchan's character being a poet was an excuse to
accomodate Sahir's poetry in Kabhi Kabhie's flimsy story-line.
> > >
> >
> > Is it true that Sahir used to consider himself more important than the
> > music director for a film and used to demand compensation 1 rupee more
> > than the music director?
>
> Adding to that question, Isn't it true that the Sahir/SDB split
> happened not because Sahir was dissatisfied with Dada's tuning of
> 'Chakle' but because he felt he deserved the credit for Pyaasa? My
> impression was that the Sahir/SDB was more clash of ego than a
> creative dissatisfaction.
>
>
An ego clash was indeed responsible for Sahir's parting of ways with
Jaidev, at least. In a radio interview, Jaidev claimed that Sahir
claimed all the credit for 'Hum Dono'. Sahir also insisted on Jaidev
carrying his harmonium to Sahir's place for their sittings, which was
not acceptable to Jaidev. Subsequently, it saw Sahir walked out of
'Mujhe Jeene Do' midway through the completion of the film.
Vibhendu
UVR
> SAHIR + O P NAYYAR
> ==================
>
> Yes, Sahir Did write all the songs for Naya Daur. But most of
> the credit for making them enjoyable is to Nayyar Saheb.
I didn't know that "making them enjoyable" was one of the
criteria to be used for determining the authorship of the
lyrics of a film song. I don't think you can award "sole"
credit for these songs to OPN. Sahir wrote the lyrics.
OPN composed the music. What's behind your extreme dis-
inclination to call this a "Sahir-OPN" film?
> Tumsa Nahin Dekha: Both Hindi Film Geet Kosh (HFGK) + HMV (on LP/Tapes, CDSs)
> have given credit for the song: Tumsa Nahin Dekha to Sahir. I have
> serious reservations about this. As per my notes (made in 1968-70
> from radio announcement, this song also was written by Majrooh. I had
> posted a query at this forum many months back, for someone to
> x-check it with original 78rpm record (not the EP or LP, but haven't
> received any response. I am almost 99% sure that my notes are correct.
Interesting! I had no idea that this song had ever been
credited to Majrooh. I will appreciate it if you could
continue your investigation and post the results here.
Thanks.
> 12 O'Clock, Sahir wrote only 2 songs, including Dekh Idhar Ae Hasina,
> again OPN deserves more credit for this song. Even a person with
> just basic knowledge of Hindi / Urdu can understand it fully - June
> Ka Hai Mahina ... Aa Raha Hai Pasina (I like it it a lot - Thank you
> Nayyar Saheb)
Why does OPN deserve "more" credit for this song? What
would have happened if Sahir had not written these simple
words for the song? Or does Sahir deserve credit only
if he uses 'difficult' Urdu words in his songs? Please
explain.
> I did mention that Sahir - OPN assosiation is memorable for
> more-or less for one film
Okay (although I don't recall you having used the word
"memorable" earlier, and neither can Google), let's leave
it at that.
-UVR.
Ritu
> Sudhir wrote:
> > SAHIR + O P NAYYAR
<SNIPPED>
>
> > Tumsa Nahin Dekha: Both Hindi Film Geet Kosh (HFGK) + HMV (on LP/Tapes, CDSs)
> > have given credit for the song: Tumsa Nahin Dekha to Sahir. I have
> > serious reservations about this. As per my notes (made in 1968-70
> > from radio announcement, this song also was written by Majrooh. I had
> > posted a query at this forum many months back, for someone to
> > x-check it with original 78rpm record (not the EP or LP, but haven't
> > received any response. I am almost 99% sure that my notes are correct.
>
> Interesting! I had no idea that this song had ever been
> credited to Majrooh. I will appreciate it if you could
> continue your investigation and post the results here.
> Thanks.
Interestingly, I too have read something to this effect. That is the
lyrics for 'Tumsa Nahin Dekha' were by Majrooh. There was a small
story to it also which went like....
Since this film was a Filmistan production the natural choice for a
hero was Dev Anand. The music was SDB/Sahir and the director was S
Mukherjee(?). However, a couple of problems later S Mukherjee was out
and Nasir Hussain stepped in. The heroine's role after a couple of
changes went to newcomer Amita. With the changed settings the project
did not hold charm for Dev Anand any more and he walked out. With Dev
Anand out SDB also refused and so did Sahir (I don't remember if there
was a sub-plot on Sahir leaving). And then in came Shammi Kapoor and
Majrooh. And that the rest as they say is History.
I had always thought the lyrics of TND were by Majrooh. Maybe Sahir
has a single song in the film? I'll check what my cassette inlay says
but this Sahir thing has me surprised.
Regards,
Ritu
Ritu
<SNIPPED>
>
> Sahir was a well-known and highly respected shair, even before he
> penned his first song for films. Pyaasa is a wrap-around story,
> i.e.: the story line was created to include the songs and few
> couplets, rather the other way around. Besides Pyaasa, Sadhana &
> Gumrah are the other two films, where story line was created, to
> include Sahir's pre-published nazms, which were set to songs as:
> Aurat Ne Janam Diya (Sadhna) and Chalo Ik Baar Phir Se (Gumrah).
>
>
> Sahir's longest association was with Chopra brothers, Baldev Raj
> (B.R. Films) and Yash (YashRaj Films). If I am not mistaken, until
> his death, he wrote the lyrics for all or B.R. Films, starting
> with Sadhna and some of YashRaj film , i.e.: Kabhi Kabhi.
I don't know about the rest of the films, but Pyaasa was certainly not
a wrap-around story around Sahir's lyrics. Guru Dutt had this idea in
his mind for a very long time(right from his struggling days). He
wanted to make it into a film right after Baazi but Raj Khosla (IIRC)
disuaded him saying he should first establish himself in the genre he
had chosen with Baazi and then
move onto something more profound. The story was called
'Kashmakash' at that time. Also, Guru Dutt specifically went back
to Burman and Sahir because he felt that the depth of the subject
could only get justice at their hands. He was working with OPN/Majrooh
in those days.
I got all this information from Nasreen Munni Kabir's biography on
Guru Dutt titled 'Lost to Life'.
Regards,
Ritu
Gurcharan Sandhu
>
CDSs)
> have given credit for the song: Tumsa Nahin Dekha to Sahir. I have
> serious reservations about this. As per my notes (made in 1968-70
> from radio announcement, this song also was written by Majrooh. I had
> posted a query at this forum many months back, for someone to
> x-check it with original 78rpm record (not the EP or LP, but haven't
> received any response. I am almost 99% sure that my notes are correct.
>
> Another song for which I had found error in both of the above listed
> sources is the song: Hum Tujh Se Mohabbat Kar Ke Sanam / AWAARA,
> which has been wrongly credited to Shailendra. The error has been
> corrected in the 2nd edition of HFGK. The song was written by Hasrat
>
correctly credit Hasrat for the above song of AAWAARAA.
Gurcharan
>
> Sudhir
Sudhir
+++++++++++++++++
For Mr. UVR
===========
For many songs I mentally assign credit, based on why I like it.
It can be only the MD, Lyricst, Singer/s or any combinations
there of and in few cases even the instrument players. Examples
are:
SARANGA / Saranaga Teri Yaad Mein / Rafi (soundtrack version only)
PYAASA / Jinhe Naaz Hai Hind Par (mostly: Sahir & to some extent: Rafi
JADOO / To Chal Gaya Jadoo... Lara Loo, Lara Loo (Naushad, the
instrumen players, Shamshad & the Chorus in that order)
SAZAA / Tum Na Jaane (all four, but hard to say who should get
more credit)
I don't do it for every song which I like, but few hundred of them
do fall in to this category.
I song written in difficult Urdu or Shudh Hindi by itself is not a
qualification. I also like Mosami & Karela song (Bombai Se Aaya Mera
Yaar, becuase the lyrics are fun)
B Ms. RITU
===========
Tumsa Nahin Dekha / Title song: I did mention that all current
formats of this film list Sahir as the song writer. Only the
read up from a 78 rpm record can solve this issue.
Pyaasa being a wrap-around story on Sahir's early years, is not
my made-up item. It has been in circulation for many years,
much before Ms. Kabir's book. The part I am refering to is Vijay's
(film's hero name) struggle until his talent is recognized.
You have to take out Gulabo & Mala's roles and Sattar Bhai
certainly was not there.
C Mr. SANDHU
==============
AWAARA / Hum Tum Se Mohabbat / The error is in the 1st Edition of
HFGK only (films arranged by year and then in Hindi
alphabets order) It was corrected in the 2nd edition
(films arranged by year and then by English alphabets
order)
D FOR ALL OTHERS
==============
No one has made any comments about my statement that both SADHANA
and GUMRAH's story lines were created. so as to incorporate
Sahir's pre-published nazms. So, I guess it is acceptable to
more or less everyone.
Sudhir
P.S.: This is the final reply
------------------
rc0...@rediffmail.com (Ritu) wrote in message
>
> >
Surjit Singh
> C Mr. SANDHU
> ==============
>
> AWAARA / Hum Tum Se Mohabbat / The error is in the 1st Edition of
> HFGK only (films arranged by year and then in Hindi
I don't know which first edition you are talking about. My copy of the
vol 3 first edition was ordered within months of its publication (April
1980). It clearly says that this song was by hasarat.
> alphabets order) It was corrected in the 2nd edition
> (films arranged by year and then by English alphabets
> order)
> Sudhir
Abhay Jain
"Ritu" <rc0...@rediffmail.com> wrote in message
news:8777cccd.03030...@posting.google.com...
> a wrap-around story around Sahir's lyrics. Guru Dutt had this idea in
> his mind for a very long time(right from his struggling days). He
> wanted to make it into a film right after Baazi but Raj Khosla (IIRC)
> disuaded him saying he should first establish himself in the genre he
> had chosen with Baazi and then
> move onto something more profound. The story was called
> 'Kashmakash' at that time. Also, Guru Dutt specifically went back
> to Burman and Sahir because he felt that the depth of the subject
> could only get justice at their hands. He was working with OPN/Majrooh
> in those days.
>
Couple of songs from Pyasa were published by Sahir in mid 40s
and GD must have found them matching Pyasa setting.
Abhay Jain