GEETanjali: nisa dina barasata naina hamaare
Nipun Shah
deciphering the lyrics. Still there are a couple of doubts....
Could someone please confirm if the following lines are correct:
1) uura biicha bahata panaare
2) bahe jaat siita taare
I can pass on the MP3 of the song if you need it.
------------------------------------------------------------
% ITRANS Song #
%
\startsong
\stitle{nisa dina barasata naina hamaare}%
\film{Non Film}%
\year{1957}%
\starring{}%
\singer{Lata Mangeshkar}%
\music{Hridaynath Mangeshkar}%
\lyrics{Surdas}%
%
% Audio On:
% Contributor: Nipun Shah
% Transliterator: U. V. Ravindra, Sujajit Bose, Nipun Shah
% Date: Dec 7, 2002
% Series: GEETanjali
% Comments: The lyrics are different from the K.L.Saigal song featured
in the film "Bhakt Surdas".
% generated using giitaayan
%
\printtitle
#indian
%
nisa dina barasata naina hamaare
sadaa rahata paavasa ritu ham par
jab se shaam sidhaare
a.njana thir na rahata a.Nkhiyan me.n
kara\-kapola bhaye kaare
ka.nchukii paTa suukhat nahi kabahuu.N
uura biicha bahata panaare
aa.Nsu salil bhaye paga thaake
bahe jaat siita taare
suuradaasa ab Duubat hai
braj kaahe na leta ubaare
%
#endindian
\endsong
--------------------------------------------------------------
Regards
Nipun
UVR
> Many thanks to U.V.Ravindra and Surajit Bose for helping with
> deciphering the lyrics. Still there are a couple of doubts....
>
> Could someone please confirm if the following lines are correct:
> 1) uura biicha bahata panaare
> 2) bahe jaat siita taare
Thanks very much for posting the lyrics, Nipun. I'd just
like to add here what *I* hear the above two lines as, in
the hope that it will help identify the actual words and
their meaning:
(1) ura bich bahat panaare
(2) bahe jaat sita{}taare
ura = throat, neck, upper part of the chest.
Also, I think in the final stanza, the word should be
suuradaas ab Duubat hai braj, kaahe na let ubaare
instead of
suuradaas ab Duubat hai, braj kaahe na let ubaare
The difference in meaning should be obvious from the
placement of the comma.
-UVR.
PS: V. minor modifications made below.
------------------------------------------------------------
% ITRANS Song #
%
\startsong
\stitle{nis din barasat nain hamaare}%
\film{Non Film}%
\year{1957}%
\starring{}%
\singer{Lata Mangeshkar}%
\music{Hridaynath Mangeshkar}%
\lyrics{Surdas}%
%
% Audio On:
% Contributor: Nipun Shah
% Transliterator: U. V. Ravindra, Sujajit Bose, Nipun Shah
% Date: Dec 7, 2002
% Series: GEETanjali
% Comments: The lyrics are different from the K.L.Saigal song featured
% in the film "Bhakt Surdas".
% generated using giitaayan
%
\printtitle
#indian
%
nis din barasat nain hamaare
sadaa rahat paavas ritu ham par
jab se shaam sidhaare
a.njan thir na rahe a.Nkhiyan me.n
kar\-kapol bhaye kaare
ka.nchukii paT suukhat nahi kabahuu.N
ura bich bahat panaare
aa.Nsuu salil bhaye pag thaake
bahe jaat siita taare
suuradaas ab Duubat hai braj
Arunabha Roy
"UVR" <u...@usa.not> wrote in message news:3df27...@nopics.sjc...
> Thanks very much for posting the lyrics, Nipun. I'd just
> like to add here what *I* hear the above two lines as, in
> the hope that it will help identify the actual words and
> their meaning:
> (1) ura bich bahat panaare
> (2) bahe jaat sita{}taare
> ura = throat, neck, upper part of the chest.
> Also, I think in the final stanza, the word should be
> suuradaas ab Duubat hai braj, kaahe na let ubaare
> instead of
> suuradaas ab Duubat hai, braj kaahe na let ubaare
> PS: V. minor modifications made below.
Thanks to the three of you for this lovely song's lyrics. And to UVR for the
glossary and the parsing of that line. Unfortunately, "ura" which you
translated was the one word I DID actually know from beforehand. Could you
provide a quick translation of the song, and its context ? What are a.njan,
thir, salil, sita{}taare, panaare ? I'd be much obliged.
Lastly, shouldn't it be R^itu or RRitu ?
- Arunabha
Arunabha Roy
song in Jogkauns or Chandrakauns ?
- Arunabha
:-)
Afzal A. Khan
Depends on whether the question is directed to Surajit
Bose or Naniwadekar !
BTW, is your question about the K.L. Saigal song or the
Lata Mangeshkar song ? Unfortunately, I haven't heard the
latter. Is the all-important meeNd present in the latter ? !!
Afzal
Ashok
Thanks, folks, for the lyrics. Here're the words from a book.
I recently happened on a book "Bhajana Sangraha", published
by Geeta Press, Gorakhpur. It is a compilation of many of the
popular Hindi devotional songs. For songs as these, looking
at a reliable text is a good idea. How reliable this particular
text is is also an issue. I give the words from the text below.
Herewith some comments and interesting discrepancies with what
we hear:
* The poet's name is given as "suuradaasajii". So, Soordas
rather than Surdas.
* The book names the raaga traditionally associated with the
bhajanas. In this case, the raaga given is Saarang.
* Important and surprising textual differences:
** "nisidin" rather than "nisadin"
** "syaam" rather than "shyaam" or "shaam"
** "jabate.n" rather than "jabase"
*OThers are minor, e.g., "rahat" rather than "rahe",
"ka.nchuki" rather than "ka.nchukii" and "bahai" rather
than "bahe".
* I have indicated puncutation as I found in the text,
including . and .. at the end of lines. These are not ideal.
What's needed are: one vertical line shorter than | for
the "swarita" symbol and two closely spaced, short vertical
lines (||) for the "diirgha swarita" symbol. These are used
to show the end of a line and the end of a charaNa, resp.
Two of the latter are often used to enclose the charaNa number.
>Thanks very much for posting the lyrics, Nipun. I'd just
>like to add here what *I* hear the above two lines as, in
>the hope that it will help identify the actual words and
>their meaning:
>
>(1) ura bich bahat panaare
>(2) bahe jaat sita{}taare
>ura = throat, neck, upper part of the chest.
>
>Also, I think in the final stanza, the word should be
> suuradaas ab Duubat hai braj, kaahe na let ubaare
>instead of
> suuradaas ab Duubat hai, braj kaahe na let ubaare
>
>The difference in meaning should be obvious from the
>placement of the comma.
>
>-UVR.
I am impressed. UVR is spot-on on all three.
nisidin barasat nain hamaare .
sadaa rahat paavas R^tu hamapar jabate.n syaam sidhaare ..
a.njan thir na rahat a.Nkhiyaname.n kar kapol bhaye kaare .
ka.nchuki\-paT suukhat nahii.n kabahuu.N., ur bich bahat panaare ..
aa.Nsuu salil bhaye pag thaake, bahai jaat sit taare .
suuradaas ab Duubat hai braj, kaahe na let ubaare ..
>nis din barasat nain hamaare
>sadaa rahat paavas ritu ham par
>jab se shaam sidhaare
>a.njan thir na rahe a.Nkhiyan me.n
>kar\-kapol bhaye kaare
>ka.nchukii paT suukhat nahi kabahuu.N
>ura bich bahat panaare
>
>aa.Nsuu salil bhaye pag thaake
>bahe jaat siita taare
>suuradaas ab Duubat hai braj
>kaahe na leta ubaare
Ashok
Surajit A. Bose
"Arunabha Roy" <as...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
> is this song in Jogkauns or Chandrakauns ?
Yes.
> Could you
> provide a quick translation of the song, and its context ? What are a.njan,
> thir, salil, sita{}taare, panaare ?
What context? It's a Surdas bhajan. That's like asking for the context
of a Meera bhajan. The question seems either meaningless, or utterly
ignorant. Since you're not usually given to meaninglessness or
ignorance, I invite you to clarify what you mean.
Sorry about the infelicities of the translation. The original's a bit
waterlogged to begin with, but the English version just strips all the
cultural markers of poetic meaning away, and renders the lines merely
bald and maudlin. And all my translation is open to correction.
> > nis din barasat nain hamaare
> > sadaa rahat paavas ritu ham par
> > jab se shaam sidhaare
Rain falls from my eyes night and day
The monsoon is always upon me
ever since Krishna left.
(I.e., being parted from Krishna, all I do is cry.)
> > a.njan thir na rahe a.Nkhiyan me.n
> > kar\-kapol bhaye kaare
> > ka.nchukii paT suukhat nahi kabahuu.N
> > ura bich bahat panaare
Kohl doesn't remain in my eyes
My hands and face have turned black
The hem of my garment never dries
A stone stays in my throat
(a.njan: kaajal; thiir: sthiir, steady, unwavering, "staying put". I.e.,
tears cause my kaajal to run, and as I wipe at my eyes, the kaajal
blackens my hands and face. My tears drench my garment all the time, and
it is never dry. My throat has a lump in it.)
> > aa.Nsuu salil bhaye pag thaake
> > bahe jaat siita taare
> > suuradaas ab Duubat hai braj
> > kaahe na leta ubaare
My tears form a lake at my feet
They flow ... (I don't know what sita{}taare means)
"Surdas" says, now Braj is being drowned
why do you not come to the rescue?
(self-explanatory.)
-s
vsr...@hclinfinet.com
my hindi book reads:
jab te.n shyaam sidhaare.
>
> >a.njan thir na rahe a.Nkhiyan me.n
a.njan thir na rahat a.nkhiyan me.n
> >kar\-kapol bhaye kaare
kar\-kapol bhay kaare
> >ka.nchukii paT suukhat nahi kabahuu.N
ka.nchukii paT suukhat nahi.n kabahuu.N
> >ura bich bahat panaare
> >
> >aa.Nsuu salil bhaye pag thaake
> >bahe jaat siita taare
bahe jaat sit taare
> >suuradaas ab Duubat hai braj
> >kaahe na leta ubaare
>
> Ashok
Suurdas Ke Bhajan, page 8, collector: B P Ojha, publishing
year, re-print, revision not mentioned. Published by Sardar
Trilochan Singh Book Sellers, Indore.
Regards.
-Rawat
vsr...@hclinfinet.com
Last line is not correctly translated.
ur: as UVR gave it , chest
bich: in the midst
bahat: bahate.n hai.n: flow
panaare: rivers, (origin is paani: water)
thus the line means "(dur to my eyes raining) rivers flow
over, in the midst of my chest".
> (a.njan: kaajal; thiir: sthiir, steady, unwavering, "staying put". I.e.,
> tears cause my kaajal to run, and as I wipe at my eyes, the kaajal
> blackens my hands and face. My tears drench my garment all the time, and
> it is never dry. My throat has a lump in it.)
>
> > > aa.Nsuu salil bhaye pag thaake
> > > bahe jaat siita taare
> > > suuradaas ab Duubat hai braj
> > > kaahe na leta ubaare
>
> My tears form a lake at my feet
> They flow ... (I don't know what sita{}taare means)
> "Surdas" says, now Braj is being drowned
> why do you not come to the rescue?
>
> (self-explanatory.)
>
> -s
As she had explicitaly asked:
salil: water, (not lake)
Thaake is selfexplainatory Thak ga_e: tired
Thus "aa.Nsuu salil bhaye pag thaake" maynot translate to
"My tears form a lake at my feet"
> They flow ... (I don't know what sita{}taare means)
me too don't know.
In my hindi book says it is "sit taare". Poet might have
taken freedon to break "sitaare" to rhyme. in that case, it
means that "stars are getting flown away". Still the
combination of two lines does not makes much sense.
Regards
-Rawat
Afzal A. Khan
"Surajit A. Bose" wrote:
>
> In article <j3AI9.199$P4.2...@news.uchicago.edu>,
> "Arunabha Roy" <as...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
>
> > is this song in Jogkauns or Chandrakauns ?
>
> Yes.
Isn't that begging the question ?
Afzal
> -s
UVR
>
> Thanks, folks, for the lyrics. Here're the words from a book.
> I recently happened on a book "Bhajana Sangraha", published
> by Geeta Press, Gorakhpur. It is a compilation of many of the
> popular Hindi devotional songs. For songs as these, looking
> at a reliable text is a good idea. How reliable this particular
> text is is also an issue. I give the words from the text below.
Awesome, Ashok! Thanks for posting the words from the book.
I completely agree with you about the need to refer to am
authoritative source. IMO the Geeta Press publications are
as reliable as any other source: I have a couple of their
other books (Sanskrit, Awadhi).
> Herewith some comments and interesting discrepancies with what
> we hear:
>
> * The poet's name is given as "suuradaasajii". So, Soordas
> rather than Surdas.
Question: who thought it was suradaas?
His name was always spelt as "suuradaas" in my school Hindi
texts. Infact, we were told that the word "suur", which was
perhaps a mispronunciation of "shuur" (valorous) came to
mean "blind" as a reference to suuradaas's visual handicap.
[...]
> * I have indicated puncutation as I found in the text,
> including . and .. at the end of lines. These are not ideal.
> What's needed are: one vertical line shorter than | for
> the "swarita" symbol and two closely spaced, short vertical
> lines (||) for the "diirgha swarita" symbol. These are used
> to show the end of a line and the end of a charaNa, resp.
> Two of the latter are often used to enclose the charaNa number.
It is interesting that you mention this, because some other
Geeta Press publications (bhagavadgiitaa, sa~NkShipta garuDa
puraaNa, shriiraamacharitamaanas) do use these symbols.
In another post, Dr. Arunabha S. Roy wrote:
> Could you provide a quick translation of the song, and its context ?
> What are a.njan, thir, salil, sita{}taare, panaare ? I'd be much obliged.
a.njan = kaajal;
thir = corruption of sthir = static, not moving.
salil = (lit.) water. Also, in an extended sense, pool, lake.
panaare = water (I think, not sure)
Re: sit taare, looking at Ashok's transcription, I think
this could be "sit aur taare". I think this could be a
reference to "the moon and stars", since 'sit' also refers
to the shuklapakSha (the 'wax' phase of the moon).
I will use Ashok's transliteration from the book to attempt
a translation of what (little) I understand of this bhajan.
suuradaas used to write in braj bhaaShaa, and we know how
different it can be from Hindi. Corrections are humbly
and eagerly welcomed.
> nisidin barasat nain hamaare .
> sadaa rahat paavas R^tu hamapar jabate.n syaam sidhaare ..
Night and day tears rain down from my eyes,
As if it's forever the month of pauSh
Ever since Shyaam left me
pauSh = months around Dec/Jan/Feb, when the air is heavy
with moisture and there's a thick foggy haze all around;
I think the reference is to how his tears are 'fogging'
his eyes.
[A blind man writing about eyes fogging up from crying:
how poignant is that?!]
> a.njan thir na rahat a.Nkhiyaname.n kar kapol bhaye kaare .
> ka.nchuki\-paT suukhat nahii.n kabahuu.N., ur bich bahat panaare ..
The kohl doesn't stay put in my eyes
It turns my hands and face black
The hem of my upper garment never dries
A river of tears flows down my throat
> aa.Nsuu salil bhaye pag thaake, bahai jaat sit taare .
> suuradaas ab Duubat hai braj, kaahe na let ubaare ..
The heavens are washed away by the water of my tears[*]
Suradas (implores you), Braj itself is drowning now
Why don't you deliver it from this misery?
[*]"water", indicating copious flow, as opposed to "drops"
(it's a guess)
-UVR.
Ajit
> In article <j3AI9.199$P4.2...@news.uchicago.edu>,
> "Arunabha Roy" <as...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
>
> > is this song in Jogkauns or Chandrakauns ?
>
> Yes.
By yes, do you mean Jogkauns or Chandrakauns? :-)
Surjit Singh
UVR wrote:
> Ashok wrote:
>
>>
<MUCH STUFF GONE FROM VARIOUS PLACES>
>
> Awesome, Ashok! Thanks for posting the words from the book.
> I completely agree with you about the need to refer to am
> authoritative source.
I agree, in general, to see the origin. But when we are discussing
lyrics, we are discussing the words pronounced by a certain singer in
her/his version. The two should be kept separate.
> IMO the Geeta Press publications are
> as reliable as any other source: I have a couple of their
> other books (Sanskrit, Awadhi).
Definitely, very professional.
>
>
> Re: sit taare, looking at Ashok's transcription, I think
> this could be "sit aur taare". I think this could be a
I have a book on suuradaas that is used for M. A. in Hindi, "suuradas,
eka visheshha adhyayana" by Pt. jvaala prasaada sharmaa and Dr.
ga.ngaasahaaya premii.
It has variations from the lyrics being discussed here. It says,
"aa.Nsuu salila sabai bha_i kaayaa, pala na jaata risa Taare"
meaning, and I quote, "hamaarii samasta deha maano ashru jala ke ruupa
me.n bahii jaa rahii hai, pala bhara ke liye bhii hamaaraa roshha [ris]
duura nahii.n hotaa hai [Taare]"
> reference to "the moon and stars", since 'sit' also refers
> to the shuklapakSha (the 'wax' phase of the moon).
>
>
> -UVR.
>
--
Surjit Singh, a diehard movie fan(atic), period.
http://hindi-movies-songs.com/index.html
naniwadekar
Usually there are between 5 to 12 posts when I first check
rmim in the morning. This Saturday morning, there were 25+
posts, prompting me to wonder whether I had slept on Friday,
slept through the whole of Saturday and got up only on Sunday
morning. But no. On Sunday morning, the same thing was
repeated and I found 25+ new posts made while I slept. Good.
One post from me would be okay, I hope.
"UVR" <u...@usa.not> wrote -
>
> > nisidin barasat nain hamaare .
> > sadaa rahat paavas R^tu hamapar jabate.n syaam sidhaare ..
>
> Night and day tears rain down from my eyes,
> As if it's forever the month of pauSh
> Ever since Shyaam left me
>
> pauSh = months around Dec/Jan/Feb, when the air is heavy
> with moisture and there's a thick foggy haze all around;
> I think the reference is to how his tears are 'fogging'
> his eyes.
>
The months of rain are saavan and bhaado.n ;
Varsha ritu = Saavan + Bhaado.n ; I think Surdas has used
the more commonly understandable term 'paavas ritu' for
'Varsha ritu'. It has nothing to do with the PauSh maas.
Nor to fog.
> [A blind man writing about eyes fogging up from crying:
> how poignant is that?!]
>
> > a.njan thir na rahat a.Nkhiyaname.n kar kapol bhaye kaare .
> > ka.nchuki\-paT suukhat nahii.n kabahuu.N., ur bich bahat panaare ..
>
> The kohl doesn't stay put in my eyes
> It turns my hands and face black
> The hem of my upper garment never dries
> A river of tears flows down my throat
>
Your guess that panaa = tears is close. It refers to a fluid.
But the fluid is female's milk, I guess. In Marathi, paanhaa
means the urge of a woman to breast-feed her child. There
are stories in Indian mythology of a woman (aged about 30-32)
being reunited with her teenaged son who was snatched from
her immediately after the birth and the discovery causing her
paanhaa to flow, at times with such force that the milk rushes
towards the boy's mouth causing him embarrassment.
I guess 'panaa' is the Braj equivalent of 'paanhaa'. If not,
the rest of this post would stand voided. The reference to
Kanchuki also suggests the breasts secreting milk.
It is not unknown for male saints to imagine themselves
as female lovers of their beloved Lord Krishna. Dnyaneshwar's
virahiNiis (written about 710 years ago) are replete with such
imagery. In 'ghanu vaaje ghuN-ghuNaa' (rendered stunningly
by Lata for Hridaynath), Dnyaneshwar talks about :
'chandanaachii choLii maajhe sarva a.ng poLii'.
(Even a brassiere made of sandalwood scorches his body;
so bereft is (s)he due to his (sic) separation from Krishna.)
I don't think Dnyaneshwar was given to cross-dressing and
he left choLii or cholii for Madhuri Dixit. But imagining himself
to be a woman pining for her Lord is recurrent in D's work.
In some poems, he imagines himself to be a male and Krishna
to be a female. But in these cases, he is a male child hungering
to meet his mother. He calls Krishna or Viththal/Vithobaa his
aaii. (aaii=mother). Refer to his abhang (another one tuned by
Hridaynath) : 'viThaaii kiThaaii maajhe kR^ishNaaii
kaanhaa_ii, ye_ii wo ye'.
viTh(oba) + aaii, krishna + aaii, kaanhaa + aaii.
It was left to Pu Shi Rege (PuruShottam Shivram Rege) to
fantasize about having sex as a male with his beloved female
Goddesses. Laxmi, Sharda, Saraswati et al used to visit him
in his dreams. They used to ask him how (sexy) they looked.
They wanted Rege to appreciate their beauty. They ordered
him to allow them to sit on his lap. (They visited his dreams
one at a time, not together, taking turns.) Rege is criminally
ignored by some camps of poetry-lovers and overpraised
by others. His prose writing in 'Saavitrii' is a must-read.
Surdas seems to be imagining himself to be a woman,
probably many women (now Krishna's mother, then his Gopika),
pining for God. The second stanza is gender-neutral. But
the first stanza has references to anjan and kanchuki.
Surajit has translated 'ur bich bahat panaare' as 'a lump
forms in my throat'. But 'bahat' suggests movement and
lump suggests obstruction to movement. Such 180-degree
shift in imagery is not implausible while translating but in
this case, I don't think it fits.
Surdas could be imagining himself to be a Gopika. Her
kanchuki is getting wetter and wetter as the milk flows
for Krishna. One can't rule out the mischievous Krishna's
frolics with Gopis featuring breast-sucking. Bhagwan Raam
was the boring one : ek-patni, ek-vachani, maybe even
ek-positionee (but hopefully not ek-nipple_ee). But Krishna,
oh no! He would try positions, permutations, tricks which
would make even Vatsyayan gasp, one imagines.
More mundane explanation is that it is his mother whose
paanhaa / panaa is flowing ceaselessly. I should point out
here that whether the one woman is Gopika or his mother,
the poem would retain its gravitas and the awesome strength
of feeling Surdas had for Krishna.
- dn
Surajit A. Bose
No. It's escaping between the horns of a dilemma.
I will also add that the song is not in Kaushik Ranjini.
And speaking of Naniwadekar: I believe he's right about "paavas" not
being pauSha. It is what is called "paausaaLaa" in Marathi, viz. the
rainy season. pauSha is not a R^itu.
On the other hand:
> Your guess that panaa = tears is close. It refers to a fluid.
> But the fluid is female's milk, I guess. In Marathi, paanhaa
> means the urge of a woman to breast-feed her child. There
> are stories in Indian mythology of a woman (aged about 30-32)
> being reunited with her teenaged son who was snatched from
> her immediately after the birth and the discovery causing her
> paanhaa to flow, at times with such force that the milk rushes
> towards the boy's mouth causing him embarrassment.
> I guess 'panaa' is the Braj equivalent of 'paanhaa'. If not,
> the rest of this post would stand voided. The reference to
> Kanchuki also suggests the breasts secreting milk.
Surdas is talking about being separated from Krishna, not being reuinted
with him.
> It is not unknown for male saints to imagine themselves
> as female lovers of their beloved Lord Krishna.
<snip>
> Surdas seems to be imagining himself to be a woman
Profound insight indeed. Thanks for sharing these stunningly original
observations, Nani.
But I am completely unaware of anything in Surdas's oeuvre that has him
cast himself as Krishna's mother. He is usually Radha pining for
Krishna. "panaare", as Rawat and UVR have said, is far more likely to be
tears. (Yup, I was wrong about "stone." I've been wrong before, and will
no doubt continue to be wrong in future.)
On a tangential note, the most dazzling display of Surdas's
gender-bending that I can recall is when he pretends to be Radha wanting
to pretend she is Krishna. A male assuming the voice of a female
assuming the identity of a male. TWELFTH NIGHT has nothing on this, I
tell ya 8-)
The bhajan? Entirely from memory, so I'm sure errors have crept in. I do
not have immediate access to any authoritative Surdas text.
%
shyaamaa torii ba.nsarii nek bajaauu.N
joii joii taan bharo muralii me.n soii soii gaa_ii sunaauu.N
shyaamaa torii ba.nsarii nek bajaauu.N
tum dadhi bechan jaao bR^i.ndaavan, mai.n mag rokan aauu.N
shyaamaa torii ba.nsarii nek bajaauu.N
more bhuuShaN tum sab pahiro, mai.n tore sab paauu.N
suur shyaam tum bano raadhikaa, mai.n nandalaal kahaauu.N
shyaamaa torii bansarii nek bajaauu.N
%
There's a semi-classical recording of Vinayakrao Patwardhan or
Narayanrao Vyas or some one of those fairly interchangeable Gwalior
dudes singing this bhajan in Des, IIRC; I have heard it just once, on
the radio, decades ago. The preceding does not purport to be the lyrics
of that recording, which (again IIRC) says "kaanhaa" rather than
"shyaamaa", and there are no doubt other variations.
The line about how Krishna should be the one selling curds while Radha
gets to indulge in a little bit of sexual harrassment for a change,
always elicits a chuckle from me. As for the imagery of Radha and
Krishna trading garments and Radha wielding Krishna's flute, that's
simply....mind-boggling. Or given that it's a flute, mind-blowing might
be more appropriate.
[I won't mention the hapless friend of mine who thought "soii soii gaaii
sunaauu.N" meant that Radha was singing in her sleep, and the whole
bhajan was supposed to be dream sequence.]
-s
Nipun Shah
for the awesome effort at the translation.
My comments follow......
UVR <u...@usa.not> wrote in message news:<3df39...@nopics.sjc>...
> Ashok wrote:
> >
> > {SNIPPED}
>
> > Herewith some comments and interesting discrepancies with what
> > we hear:
> >
> > * The poet's name is given as "suuradaasajii". So, Soordas
> > rather than Surdas.
>
> Question: who thought it was suradaas?
He was probably referring to my entry for the "Lyrics" field of the
iTrans-ISB file. I had written "Surdas", but always knew that the
hindi spelling should be "iTrans"ed as suuradaas. May be I should
change the Lyrics field to "Soordas" (as suggested by Ashok), which is
a non-iTrans, commonly understood, form of transliteration.
>
> a.njan = kaajal;
> thir = corruption of sthir = static, not moving.
> salil = (lit.) water. Also, in an extended sense, pool, lake.
> panaare = water (I think, not sure)
Here, can one assume safely that "panaa" and "re" are separate words,
with "panaa" still being a mystery, and "re" being the ubiquitous word
used to stress a point in poetry and slang in certain Indian languages
(e.g. Hindi, Gujarati, Bambaiyya etc...) ?
In a lighter vein : several online Hindi-English dictionaries, e.g.
the one at http://www.wordanywhere.com , turned out the following
meanings for "panaa"
1) syrup made of mango juice, flavored with tamarind and cumin
2) tamarind
;-), pangs of separation cause feelings of flow of tasty juices. ;-p .
I'd rather not think this way. Hahaha.
>
> Re: sit taare, looking at Ashok's transcription, I think
> this could be "sit aur taare". I think this could be a
> reference to "the moon and stars", since 'sit' also refers
> to the shuklapakSha (the 'wax' phase of the moon).
>
Wow, this is a stroke of genius. "bahai jaata sit (moon) taare
(stars)" makes perfect sense. Not only are the earthly beings drowned
in the tears (read sorrow), but also the heavenly bodies. Good call,
UVR. Can this be further confirmed?
All this said, I still have some more comments to make about the
lyrics. I have both versions of the song, the Lata/Hridaynath one and
the Lakshmi Shankar one. Ofcourse, there are some variations in
pronounciation. My following comments are based on these two versions
and also on the ongoing discussion.
> nisa dina barasata naina hamaare
Ashok pointed out that the original text has "nisidina" and not "nis
din". On the other hand, both the sung versions distinctly present
this as "nis din". This raises an important question regarding entries
in the ISB of traditional songs which have been recorded either for
film or non-film albums. Should the ISB present these songs "as sung"
or "as written in the original text" ?
> sadaa raheta paavasa ritu ham par
> jab se shaam sidhaare
Again here, the original text has "syaam", but both the singers have a
distinct "sh" here. What's not very clear to *me* though, is whether
they sing it as "shyaam" or as "shaam".
Also, similar situation for "jab te.n", because both the singers sing
"jab se" instead.
> a.njana thir na rahe (raheta) a.Nkhiyan me.n
Here, Lata sings it as "thiir" instead of "thir". But LS does sing it
as "thir". Lata seems to be mispronouncing this because we know that
the Sanskrit word is "Sthir" and not "Sthiir".
Also, Lata sings "rahe" and LS sings "raheta". So, if the ISB entry is
to be for the Lata version, then "rahe" should be considered and not
"raheta".
> kara\-kapola bhaye kaare
Lata sings "bhaye", but LS sings "bhaya"
> ka.nchukii\-paTa suukhat nahi kabahuu.N
> ura biicha baheta panaare
I was under impression that the correct spelling is "biich", and not
"bich" as suggested by Ashok. Does the original text surely have it as
"bich" ?
> aa.Nsu salil bhaye paga thaake
> bahai jaat sita taare
Yeah, both the singers sing it as "bahai" (distinct double-maatra atop
the hindi 'h').
> suuradaasa ab Duubat hai braj kaahe na leta ubaare
LS sings "brij", while Lata sings "braj".
Also, LS adds a comma before her "brij". If we assume that
suuradaasa's name is to have a grammatical meaning in this line, then
the follwing makes sense:
> suuradaasa ab Duubat hai, brij kaahe na leta ubaare
can't which can be interpreted as:
"Suuradaasa is drowning in his own tears (and so is Brij drowning in
the misery), so why don't you deliver Brij, and in doing so also
deliver me (Suuradaasa) ? "
Again, these are just my doubts and comments. I don't intend to
belittle the effort by Ashok and UVR, who are more knowledgeable in
matters related to Hindi and also have support of authentic texts.
I have one more question. What is the authentic way of pronouncing
"rahat" and "bahat" ? Is is "rahet/bahet", or is it "rahait/bahait",
or it is simply "rahat/bahat" ? As from the sung versions of the song
under discussion, the first two options seem more possible.
Suggestions and comments are most welcome.
Regards
Nipun
Nipun Shah
>
> "UVR" <u...@usa.not> wrote -
> >
> >
> > pauSh = months around Dec/Jan/Feb, when the air is heavy
> > with moisture and there's a thick foggy haze all around;
> > I think the reference is to how his tears are 'fogging'
> > his eyes.
> >
>
> The months of rain are saavan and bhaado.n ;
> Varsha ritu = Saavan + Bhaado.n ; I think Surdas has used
> the more commonly understandable term 'paavas ritu' for
> 'Varsha ritu'. It has nothing to do with the PauSh maas.
> Nor to fog.
>
Actually, I also have been tempted to give in to the idea of "paavas
R^itu" meaning "monsoon season" rather than it meaning "pauSh month".
On the other hand UVR too has tempting reasoning with the fogged eyes
being compared with the dew-drops of Jan-Feb months. But the preceding
line speaks about "barasate nain" rather than "fogged eyes".
IMHO, the whole bhajan seems to be essentially comparing the flow of
tears with "barasanaa" = "to rain". Everything introduced in the
bhajan seems to be flowing away in the waters. I don't think all this
hints at "pauSh month". Rains have been heard to cause floods, but dew
has never been, ;-), has it been ? And moreover, "paavas" of Marathi
is a R^itu, but "pauSh" is not a season, its a month.
So, IMHO, the poet is talking about feeling as if rains are pouring
down on him, because his eyes are crying day and night.
> >
> > > a.njan thir na rahat a.Nkhiyaname.n kar kapol bhaye kaare .
> > > ka.nchuki\-paT suukhat nahii.n kabahuu.N., ur bich bahat panaare ..
> >
> > The kohl doesn't stay put in my eyes
> > It turns my hands and face black
> > The hem of my upper garment never dries
> > A river of tears flows down my throat
> >
>
> Your guess that panaa = tears is close. It refers to a fluid.
> But the fluid is female's milk, I guess. In Marathi, paanhaa
> means the urge of a woman to breast-feed her child. There
> are stories in Indian mythology of a woman (aged about 30-32)
> being reunited with her teenaged son who was snatched from
> her immediately after the birth and the discovery causing her
> paanhaa to flow, at times with such force that the milk rushes
> towards the boy's mouth causing him embarrassment.
> I guess 'panaa' is the Braj equivalent of 'paanhaa'. If not,
> the rest of this post would stand voided. The reference to
> Kanchuki also suggests the breasts secreting milk.
>
>
Well, dn's above thesis prompted me to look up the meaning of "ur" in
an online Hindi-English Dictionary. ( http://www.wordanywhere.com )
And lo and behold ! This is what I found !!
"ur" means : 1) bosom 2) breast 3) the heart
Also, I know of the word "ur" being a part of Gujarati language, where
it is used for "heart". IMHO, heart might not have anything to do with
the throat, unless there is a lump in the throat caused by overflow of
feelings in the heart. But, in that case, the lump can't be flowing,
as the "baheta" suggests. So, by this reasoning, "ur" might after all
mean something closer to the heart and probably not as far as the
throat is. What sayz ?? ;-)
Well well ! Now this makes "ka.nchuki\-paT suukhat nahii.n kabahuu.N.,
ur biich bahat panaa re" all the more mysterious, doesn't it !?
Things now depend upon what "panaa" means ! Is it a stone ? Is it
water/tears ? Or is it milk !?
In another post, Ashok Dhareshwar wrote :
> * Important and surprising textual differences:
> ** "nisidin" rather than "nisadin"
> ** "syaam" rather than "shyaam" or "shaam"
> ** "jabate.n" rather than "jabase"
> *OThers are minor, e.g., "rahat" rather than "rahe",
> "ka.nchuki" rather than "ka.nchukii" and "bahai" rather
> than "bahe".
Picking up from my earlier post where I doubted the spelling, here's
one more doubt.
What's correct, "ka.nchuki" or "ka.nchukii" ? To me, the second one
sounds correct.
Regards
Nipun
Surjit Singh
Nipun Shah wrote:
> "naniwadekar" <nani3...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<at0fvb$vej3i$1...@ID-75735.news.dfncis.de>...
>
>>"UVR" <u...@usa.not> wrote -
>>
>>>
>>>pauSh = months around Dec/Jan/Feb, when the air is heavy
>>>with moisture and there's a thick foggy haze all around;
>>>I think the reference is to how his tears are 'fogging'
>>>his eyes.
>>>
>>>
>>The months of rain are saavan and bhaado.n ;
>>Varsha ritu = Saavan + Bhaado.n ; I think Surdas has used
>>the more commonly understandable term 'paavas ritu' for
>>'Varsha ritu'. It has nothing to do with the PauSh maas.
>>Nor to fog.
>>
>>
>
> Actually, I also have been tempted to give in to the idea of "paavas
> R^itu" meaning "monsoon season"
Hindi dictionary by Bahra clearly equates paavas R^itu with varshhaa
R^itu in a sentence to explain what paavas means. And Platts dictionary
gives 2 meanings for paavas: The rainy season and rain.
Platts dictionary also gives the source for the two words:
paavas is derived from praavTashh and paushh the month from pushhya the
nakshatra.
vsr...@hclinfinet.com
>
> And speaking of Naniwadekar: I believe he's right about "paavas" not being pauSha. It is what is called "paausaaLaa" in Marathi, viz. the rainy season. pauSha is not a R^itu.
>
> On the other hand:
>
> > Your guess that panaa = tears is close. It refers to a fluid.
> > But the fluid is female's milk, I guess. In Marathi, paanhaa
> > means the urge of a woman to breast-feed her child. There
> > are stories in Indian mythology of a woman (aged about 30-32)
> > being reunited with her teenaged son who was snatched from
> > her immediately after the birth and the discovery causing her
> > paanhaa to flow, at times with such force that the milk rushes
> > towards the boy's mouth causing him embarrassment.
> > I guess 'panaa' is the Braj equivalent of 'paanhaa'. If not,
> > the rest of this post would stand voided. The reference to
> > Kanchuki also suggests the breasts secreting milk.
>
Krishna. "panaare", as Rawat and UVR have said, is far more
likely to be tears.
I remembered the correct word. it is "panaale" originating
from "par" "naale".
"par" is utilised to instil some higher degree as in "dada -
pardada" panaale/ parnaale is a standard commonly used word
in hindi which is defined as some big big big naala.
panaare is some version of that.
I think paavas means os: dew,
He had used it to mean those seasons in which dew drops.
Tears are dropping like dew.
---------------------
If we could get such discussions in every classroom,
everybody will come with high marks and excellent
understanding of language and emotions.
Regards
-Rawat
vibhendu
> Ashok wrote:
>
Seem to have arrived too late onto this thread to add anything new.
Summing up my comments on a few points:
1. Suur is a mispronunciation for 'suurya' (sun). In fact, vaguely
remember a Hindi dohaa, which used to sum up the relative importance
of various bhakti poets -
'suur suur tulasi shashi' and then goes on to compare the rest with
the stars implying stars are numerous with no distinct identity while
suur and tulasi are the sun and the moon of the Hindi firmament.
2. All classic Hindi poetry can be classified as to belong to one
meter (chha.d) or another - 'dohaa', ''rolii', 'savaiyaaa', 'kavitt'
etc. The sum of number of maatras in each phrase characterise a type
of chha.nd and distinguishes one from another. A diirgh svar
contributes 'two' maatras while a laghu svar denotes one.
Somebody with a degree in Hindi literature may be able to supply the
details.
Why I bring it here is that various doubts on 'diirgha/laghu' can be
resolved if we can identify the chha.nd form employed by Soordas.
3. A laghu 'i kii maatraa' remaining silent is a common phenomenon in
some parts of UP. I don't know whether it is backed by any rules but I
know a lot of people who insist on calling ‘ravi’,
‘kavi’, raashi as ‘rav’, ‘kav’
and ‘raash’ respectively.
Regards,
Vibhendu
Surjit Singh
vsr...@HCLInfinet.com wrote:
> "Surajit A. Bose" wrote:
>
>>And speaking of Naniwadekar: I believe he's right about "paavas" not being pauSha. It is what is called "paausaaLaa" in Marathi, viz. the rainy season. pauSha is not a R^itu.
>>
>>On the other hand:
>>
>>
>>>Your guess that panaa = tears is close. It refers to a fluid.
>>>But the fluid is female's milk, I guess. In Marathi, paanhaa
>>>means the urge of a woman to breast-feed her child. There
>>>are stories in Indian mythology of a woman (aged about 30-32)
>>>being reunited with her teenaged son who was snatched from
>>>her immediately after the birth and the discovery causing her
>>>paanhaa to flow, at times with such force that the milk rushes
>>>towards the boy's mouth causing him embarrassment.
>>>I guess 'panaa' is the Braj equivalent of 'paanhaa'. If not,
>>>the rest of this post would stand voided. The reference to
>>>Kanchuki also suggests the breasts secreting milk.
>>>
>>But I am completely unaware of anything in Surdas's oeuvre that has him cast himself as Krishna's mother. He is usually Radha pining for
>>
> Krishna. "panaare", as Rawat and UVR have said, is far more
> likely to be tears.
>
> I remembered the correct word. it is "panaale" originating
> from "par" "naale".
>
> "par" is utilised to instil some higher degree as in "dada -
> pardada" panaale/ parnaale is a standard commonly used word
> in hindi which is defined as some big big big naala.
>
> panaare is some version of that.
Absolutely correct! That's what my book says too.
>
> I think paavas means os: dew,
>
> He had used it to mean those seasons in which dew drops.
> Tears are dropping like dew.
>
> ---------------------
> If we could get such discussions in every classroom,
> everybody will come with high marks and excellent
> understanding of language and emotions.
>
> Regards
> -Rawat
>
>
>
naniwadekar
"Surajit A. Bose" <psur...@netscape.net> wrote -
>
> ... But I am completely unaware of anything in Surdas's oeuvre that
> has him cast himself as Krishna's mother. He is usually Radha pining ...
>
But in this poem, he just might have cast himself as Yashoda.
I checked in a dictionary for panaa and associated words.
Oxford Hindi-English Dictionary. It leaves a lot
uncovered. Alas, the nearest library has only one
Hindi-English Dictionary.
panaa (panhaa or panh(e).n in Marathi) - a drink made
from the juice of fruits (as tamarind, (raw) mango) with
certain spices.
panaalaa - water channel, gutter, drain
panaanaa - to cause to flow down milk (into udder)
I feel quite strongly now that Surdas is talking about
tears flowing from Yashoda maiyya's eyes and milk from
her breasts. 'ur bich bahat panaa re'.
The dictionary shows one more reference to milk. 'sit'
means light half of the month (as pointed out by UVR). It
also means the planet Venus. And 'sit-saagar' means
'ocean of milk'. 'bahe jaat sit taare' might mean that
the flood of milk is sweeping away the stars.
> > means the urge of a woman to breast-feed her child. There
> > are stories in Indian mythology of a woman (aged about 30-32)
> > being reunited with her teenaged son who was snatched from
> > her immediately after the birth and the discovery causing her
> > paanhaa to flow, at times with such force that the milk rushes
> > towards the boy's mouth causing him embarrassment.
> > Kanchuki also suggests the breasts secreting milk.
>
> Surdas is talking about being separated from Krishna, not being
> reuinted with him.
>
IMO, the thought of Krishna is causing the panaa/milk to
flow. The circumstance (union or separation) causing
acute thought is immaterial.
A few asides -
Lata has uttered the word 'kaare' twice. 'kar-kapol bhaye
kaare kaare'.
I don't know about others but I spell 'suuradaas' as
Surdas probably because Gyan Dutt, Saigal, Khursheed's
film is spelled 'Bhakta Surdas' in Roman and as 'bhakta
suuradaas' in Nagari in the hfgk. 'Soordas' is certainly
a better option.
The 'ritu' scheme of 'unhaaLaa, paavasaaLaa, hiwaaLaa in
Marathi' (summer, rains, winter) roughly assigns 4 months
to each ritu. The original division has 6 ritus, each of
2 months' duration. The ritus and associated months using
their Marathi names are :
Vasant - Chaitra, Vaishaakh
GreeShma - JyeShTha (Jeth), AaShaaDh
VarSha - ShraavaN, Bhaadrapad
Sharad - Ashwin, Kaartik
Hemant - MaargasheerSha, PauSha
Shishir - Maagh, Phaalgun (Phaag)
I used to get confused about which is Hemant and which
Shishir; but there is a helpful Marathi song with a
brash, dreadful tune : 'shishir sampalaa, vasant aalaa'.
(Vasant has arrived on completion of Shishir.)
- dn
Surajit A. Bose
"naniwadekar" <nani3...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Surajit A. Bose" <psur...@netscape.net> wrote -
> >
> > ... But I am completely unaware of anything in Surdas's oeuvre that
> > has him cast himself as Krishna's mother. He is usually Radha pining ...
> >
>
> But in this poem, he just might have cast himself as Yashoda.
>
There is no iconography (anywhere--not just in Surdas) that I'm aware of
that talks about Yashoda pining for Krishna.
> panaanaa - to cause to flow down milk (into udder)
>
> I feel quite strongly now that Surdas is talking about
> tears flowing from Yashoda maiyya's eyes and milk from
> her breasts. 'ur bich bahat panaa re'.
>
> The dictionary shows one more reference to milk. 'sit'
> means light half of the month (as pointed out by UVR). It
> also means the planet Venus. And 'sit-saagar' means
> 'ocean of milk'. 'bahe jaat sit taare' might mean that
> the flood of milk is sweeping away the stars.
The grammar is unconvincing; "panaanaa" may mean causing milk to flow
into the udder / breast, but how does it follow that "ur bich bahat
panaa re" means "milk flows into my breasts"?
"bahe jaat sit taare" doesn't follow either. Doesn't "sit-saagar" mean
"milky way", the galaxy? And doesn't "sitaaraa Duubanaa" (still) mean
"bure din aanaa"? I don't think it has anything to do with milk.
But the basic objection I have is still iconographic. Find me a
tradition that depicts Yashoda pining for Krishna, and I'll be willing
to believe you. The tradition Surdas wrote in--Vaishnavaite erotic
poetry, a tradition that encompasses Jayadeva and Meera, among
others--treats Krishna as lover. The tradition of Krishna as child is a
folk tradition, not a literary one.
Granted, the folk / literary distinction is not properly applicable to
any tradition such as India's where the primary means of cultural
transmission is oral; nonetheless, the point is that Krishna's childhood
is largely told through folk narrative, not through poetry. (Film lyrics
don't count.) And stories of Krishna's childhood cast him as prankster,
not as missing / departed son.
-s
naniwadekar
> into the udder / breast, but how does it follow that "ur bich bahat
> panaa re" means "milk flows into my breasts"?
>
> "bahe jaat sit taare" doesn't follow either. Doesn't "sit-saagar" mean
> "milky way", the galaxy? And doesn't "sitaaraa Duubanaa" (still) mean
> "bure din aanaa"? I don't think it has anything to do with milk.
>
sit-saagar = ocean of milk, according to the dictionary cited.
Does it mean 'milky way / galaxy' also ?
I first conjectured that 'panaa' could be braj equivalent of
'paanhaa' and now the dictionary offers some support
to my guess. I was/am tempted to say : QED. But it
is certainly possible that Surdas implied no reference
to milk in the poem.
- dn
Abhay Phadnis
news:psurajit-66C547...@news.fu-berlin.de...
(snip)
> But the basic objection I have is still iconographic. Find me a
> tradition that depicts Yashoda pining for Krishna, and I'll be willing
> to believe you. The tradition Surdas wrote in--Vaishnavaite erotic
> poetry, a tradition that encompasses Jayadeva and Meera, among
> others--treats Krishna as lover. The tradition of Krishna as child is a
> folk tradition, not a literary one.
ummmm...Surdas does not QUITE fit into the "Vaishnavite erotic tradition". I
would be quite surprised to find a Surdas bhajan that would qualify as
"erotic". Any examples?
IMO, his poetry exemplifies bhakti as devotion, not as romantic love (a la
Meera). And a lot of his poetry DOES focus on the child Krishna - to take a
mind-numbingly obvious example, "mai_yyaa morii mai.n nahii.n maakhan
khaayo". Other examples:
aho pati so upaay kachhuu kije (Krishna as new-born)
uThii uThii sakhii sab ma.ngal gaa_ii (ditto)
karat si.ngaar mai_yyaa man bhaavat (Krishna as child)
These are off the top of my head; I am sure a detailed inventory will throw
up many more.
This is not to say that I agree with Nani's interpretation of this
particular bhajan; just that I don't agree with your characterisation of
Surdas's poetry!
Warm regards,
Abhay
Surajit A. Bose
"Abhay Phadnis" <aphadnis_r...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Surajit A. Bose" <psur...@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:psurajit-66C547...@news.fu-berlin.de...
> (snip)
> > But the basic objection I have is still iconographic. Find me a
> > tradition that depicts Yashoda pining for Krishna, and I'll be willing
> > to believe you. The tradition Surdas wrote in--Vaishnavaite erotic
> > poetry, a tradition that encompasses Jayadeva and Meera, among
> > others--treats Krishna as lover. The tradition of Krishna as child is a
> > folk tradition, not a literary one.
>
> ummmm...Surdas does not QUITE fit into the "Vaishnavite erotic tradition". I
> would be quite surprised to find a Surdas bhajan that would qualify as
> "erotic". Any examples?
I quoted one in an earlier post to this thread: "shyaamaa torii bansarii
nek bajaauu.N". I think your interpretation of the word "erotic" is not
the same as mine. I meant "erotic" as in "ShR^i.ngaar rasa". The usual
translation for "ShR^i.ngaar" is "the erotic", as in having to do with
"eros", or romantic love.
Thanks for listing the Surdas bhajans dealing with Krishna as a child.
(How could I have forgotten "maiyaa morii mai.n nahii.n" etc.?) But I
still maintain that there is *no* tradition--folk, literary--that
depicts Yashoda as pining for Krishna. Heck, we don't even have a
tradition of Devaki pining for Krishna.
-s
UVR
> The tradition Surdas wrote in--Vaishnavaite erotic
> poetry, a tradition that encompasses Jayadeva and Meera, among
> others--treats Krishna as lover. The tradition of Krishna as child is a
> folk tradition, not a literary one.
>
What are you talking about? Soordas himself wrote at least
two bhajans where Krishna says "maiyaa morii" (there are
possibly more, but I only know of two):
(1) maiyaa morii mai.n nahii.n maakhan khaayo (!! how
could you forget this one?)
(2) maiyaa morii mohe daa_uuhi(?) bahut khijaayo -- this
was in one of my 5th/6th standard Hindi text books.
Anyone remember/know the full lyric?
Soordas wasn't a 'folk' poet just because he sang in
'brajabhaaShaa', but I can also quote a good number of
Carnatic music compositions in various languages (incl.
Sanskrit) that make references to Krishna as a child:
(baalagOpaala ..., baalakR^iShNa ..., kaNNaa ...).
Kid Krishna is one of the oldest and most endearing icons
of Hindu (vaiShNava/non-vaiShNava) tradition. It is said
that Soordas used to carry an idol of 'baal_kishan-ji'
with himself. Infact, I've heard an anecdote that goes
like this:
Once Tulsidas went to Braj to meet this 'blind bard, who
is a great bhakta of kishan-ji'. They met & were singing
of Rama and Krishna sitting in the compound of a temple,
when suddenly there was huge commotion outside: people
were running helter-skelter, afraid. Curious, Soordas
shouted at someone, "kyaa ho gayaa hai re, bhaiyaa? log
kyo.n idhar-udhar bhaag rahe hai.n." Someone from the
crowd yelled back, "mandir kaa haathii matt ho gayaa hai,
Soordas ji, aur usne apni zanjeer to.D dii hai. aap bhii
bhaagiye!" (In BrajBhasha of course) The temple elephant
had had an attack of must and had broken loose. Soordas
grabbed his idol and ... ran! But Tulsidas just continued
to sit there, carefree, singing praises of Rama.
When the elephant was finally subdued, and Soordas came
back to the temple, Tulsidas was still sitting there.
He asked, "Soordas ji, aap bhaag kyo.n gaye? bhagavaan
to sab ke rakShak-paalan_haar hai.n: ham ko to bharosaa
thaa ki hamaare Raam-ji hamaarii rakShaa kare.nge. isii-
liye baiThe rahe."
Soordas replied, "Tulsidas ji, aap ke Raam-ji zaroor aap
kii rakShaa karte ho.nge. aur kyo.n na kare.n, ve to raajaa
hai.n, shaktishaalii hai.n, shuur-viir, balavaan hai.n. ...
par hamaare Kishan ji to (ye rahe, dekhiye) nanhe-munne,
chhoTe-se gvaal hai.n: inase to gaiyaa.N charaa lo, bas!
warnaa inakii to *hame.n* rakShaa karanii pa.Datii hai!"
(Evidently, the purpose of the anecdote is to say that
the Lord will be to you whatever your imagination says
he is -- your protector (Tulsidas), your lover-husband
(Meera), a cute-little cowboy (Soordas) ...)
-UVR.
Ket...@att.net
>Once Tulsidas went to Braj to meet this 'blind bard, who
>is a great bhakta of kishan-ji'. They met & were singing
>of Rama and Krishna sitting in the compound of a temple,
Is this the earliest known version of the "My (singing) God is greater than
yours" debate?
>bhaagiye!" (In BrajBhasha of course) The temple elephant
>had had an attack of must and had broken loose. Soordas
>grabbed his idol and ... ran! But Tulsidas just continued
>to sit there, carefree, singing praises of Rama.
I believe Soordas was singing "Nafrat ki duniya ko chhod ke"
>When the elephant was finally subdued,
I believe Tulsidas started singing "Chal chal chal mere haati, o mere saathi" to
subdue the elephant.
Moral of the story:
When you have a horrible weepy, tinny, whiny voice, forget humans, even
elephants have been known to go mad.
:)
Ketan
UVR
> In article <3df75...@nopics.sjc>, UVR says...
>
>>Once Tulsidas went to Braj to meet this 'blind bard, who
>>is a great bhakta of kishan-ji'. They met & were singing
>>of Rama and Krishna sitting in the compound of a temple,
>
> Is this the earliest known version of the "My (singing) God is greater than
> yours" debate?
My interpretation of this story is different from yours.
IMO, it's not a your-god/my-god issue at all. Instead,
it describes the "relationship" each of these men had
with their perception of Rama/Krishna and what feelings
came to them 'naturally' when thinking of their god.
For instance, one emotion that many humans feel towards
a beloved child is one of 'protectiveness': to keep any
harm from befalling it, to keep all evil at bay ...
I am quite sure Soordas had no doubt as to the divinity
of his Baal-Krishna, yet it is very touching to see that
at the base of all his bhakti was that innate sense of
protective (parental?) love towards a child.
Speaking of 'parental', I can now remember a smattering
of the other "maiyaa morii" Soordas bhajan which I read
in school. It goes something like this:
[The scene is: Yashoda tells Krishna to "go play outside
with your brother! Why don't you go play with Balaram?"]
[The Kid-Krishna replies:]
--
maiyaa, mohe daa_uu_hi bahut khijaayo!
moso.n kahat, "mol ko liinho, tohe jasumati kab jaayo?"
Mother, Balaram-bhaiyaa teases me no end!
He says to me, "you weren't born of Yashomati,
You were purchased with money!"
<...???...>
kaah kahau.n ehi ris ke maare khelan hau.n nahi.n jaat
puni puni kahat kaun hai maataa, kaun tihaaro taat?
What can I tell you,
This is what angers me so much that I don't go to play
Again and again he says,
"Tell me who is your real mother?"
"Who is your real rather?"
gore nand, jasodaa gorii, tuu kat syaam sariir?
<...>
Nand is fair of complexion, and so is Yashodaa,
So how did *you* become dark-skinned?
...
<There is more, but I can't recall it :(>
--
If anyone (but *anyone*) has access to the complete
text of this bhajan, I will be much obliged if they
would (please, please) post it here. One definite
source of this bhajan would be the Hindi text books
published by NCERT, and used by Kendriya Vidyalayas
in and around the Delhi area for classes 5-thru-7
back around 1977-82.
-UVR.
Surjit Singh
poets here, but the stuff is hard to read. Somebody should help them.
http://www.iiit.net/ltrc/script_html/
UVR wrote:
vsr...@hclinfinet.com
>
> Surajit A. Bose wrote:
> > The tradition Surdas wrote in--Vaishnavaite erotic
> > poetry, a tradition that encompasses Jayadeva and Meera, among
> > others--treats Krishna as lover. The tradition of Krishna as child is a
> > folk tradition, not a literary one.
> >
> > -s
>
> What are you talking about? Soordas himself wrote at least
> two bhajans where Krishna says "maiyaa morii" (there are
> possibly more, but I only know of two):
>
> (1) maiyaa morii mai.n nahii.n maakhan khaayo (!! how
> could you forget this one?)
> (2) maiyaa morii mohe daa_uuhi(?) bahut khijaayo -- this
> was in one of my 5th/6th standard Hindi text books.
> Anyone remember/know the full lyric?
maiyaa mohe daa_uu bahut khijaayo
da_uu is for elder brother (balraam)
(o mother elder brother is irritating me a lot)
For that matter, I am not aware of any "erotic" poetry of
Meeraa also, though she did consider kR^ishna to be her
lover.
There are "Bihari", Keshav(?) and some other ones who did
write erotic poetry. They are not bhakti poets.
On a different time, Kalidas also wrote erotica in sanskrit.
-Rawat
UVR
> UVR:
>
> You have already got most of it, and right. Here's the complete "pad".
> The greatness and enjoyability of the poem is much much more accessible
> to me now than when I first read it in school.
Thank you very much, Dr. Singh and Vinay!
-UVR.
> ===
> maiyaa, mohi daa_uu bahut khijaayau |
> moso.n kahat mol kau linhau.n, tuu jasumati kab jaayau ||
>
> kahaa kahau.n ihi ris ke maare khelat hau.n nahii jaat |
> puni puni kahat kaun hai maataa, ko hai tero taat ||
>
> gore na.nd, jasodaa gorii, tuu kat syaam sariir |
> chuTakii dai dai ha.Nsat gwaal sab, sikhai det balabiir ||
>
> tuu mohii.n ko.n maaran siikhii, daau_hi kabahu.N na khiijhai |
> mohan-mukh ris kii ye baate.n, jasumati suni-suni riijhai ||
>
> "sunahu kaanh, balbhadra chabaai, janamat hii kau dhuut" |
> suur shyaam, "mohi.n gaudhan kii sau.n, hau.n maataa tuu puut" ||
> ===
> Source: http://tinyurl.com/3g5g
>
>
> Vinay
>
>
> UVR wrote:
>
>>*Ket...@att.net wrote:
>>
>>>In article <3df75...@nopics.sjc>, UVR says...
>>>[color=green]
>>>
>>>>Once Tulsidas went to Braj to meet this 'blind bard, who
>>>>is a great bhakta of kishan-ji'. They met & were singing
>>>>of Rama and Krishna sitting in the compound of a temple,
>>>
>>>Is this the earliest known version of the "My (singing) God is
>>
>>greater than
>>
>>>yours" debate?[/color]
>>....
>>
>><There is more, but I can't recall it :(>
>>--
>>
>>If anyone (but *anyone*) has access to the complete
>>text of this bhajan, I will be much obliged if they
>>would (please, please) post it here. One definite
>>source of this bhajan would be the Hindi text books
>>published by NCERT, and used by Kendriya Vidyalayas
>>in and around the Delhi area for classes 5-thru-7
>>back around 1977-82.
>>
>>
>>-UVR. *
>
>
>
> --
> v9y
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> v9y's Profile: http://www.aksharamala.com/forums/member.php?action=getinfo&userid=373
> View this thread: http://www.aksharamala.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=7608
>
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
> % ITRANS Song #
> %
> \startsong
> \stitle{nisa dina barasata naina hamaare}%
> \film{Non Film}%
> \year{1957}%
> \starring{}%
> \singer{Lata Mangeshkar}%
> \music{Hridaynath Mangeshkar}%
> \lyrics{Surdas}%
> %
>> % Comments: The lyrics are different from the K.L.Saigal song featured
> in the film "Bhakt Surdas".
Does anyone here have the lyrics to the K.L. Saigal version from "Bhakt Soordas"?
Sanjeev
Nipun Shah
>
> Does anyone here have the lyrics to the K.L. Saigal version from "Bhakt Soordas"?
>
> Sanjeev
Found this from the ISB.
%
\startsong
\stitle{nis din barsat nain hamaare}%
\film{Bhakt Surdas}%
\year{1942}%
\starring{Saigal}%
\singer{Saigal}%
\lyrics{D N Madhok}%
\music{Gyan Dutt}%
%
% Contributor: K Vijay Kumar
% Transliterator: K Vijay Kumar
% Credits:
%
\printtitle
#indian
%
nis din barasat nain hamaare (2)
sadaa rahat baavas R^itu hamape (2)
jab se shyaam sidhaare (2)
nis din barasat nain hamaare (2)
akhiyaa.n Dhuu.NDh thakii man thakayo.n (2)
chalat chalat pag haare
suurdaas jii!
akhiyaa.n Dhuu.NDh thakii man thakayo.n (2)
chalat chalat pag haare
suur shyaam bhaTako mat dar dar kholo man ke dvaare (2)
kholo man ke dvaare kholo man ke dvaare
%
#endindian
\endsong
%
The film song can be heard at www.musicindiaonline.com
Its interesting that this song has "baavas" instead of "paavas".
Anyone knows what "baavas" means ? Is it just a corrupted version of
"paavas" ? May be through "baavas" we might be able to go to the roots
of "paavas". As we know from the current discussion, there's is still
some doubt as to what it means.... "pauSh the month" or "paavas (rain
in marathi) the season" ?
Surjit Singh
Nipun Shah wrote:
> sanj...@aol.com (Sanjeev Ramabhadran) wrote in message
>
>
>>Does anyone here have the lyrics to the K.L. Saigal version from "Bhakt Soordas"?
>>
>>Sanjeev
>>
>
>
> Found this from the ISB.
>
> %
<GONE>
> suurdaas jii!
This phrase is uttered by KLS's brother in real life. His name would be
pronounced as mahendra in in Hindi, although in Panjabi it would be
ma_i.ndar, the _i to be pronounced in a falling tone. That is why on
some cassettes they write mainder for his name.
> akhiyaa.n Dhuu.NDh thakii man thakayo.n (2)
naniwadekar
"Nipun Shah" <nipu...@hotmail.com> wrote -
>
> %
> \startsong
> \stitle{nis din barsat nain hamaare}%
> \film{Bhakt Surdas}%
> \year{1942}%
> \starring{Saigal}%
> \singer{Saigal}%
> \lyrics{D N Madhok}%
> \music{Gyan Dutt}%
> %
> %
> sadaa rahat baavas R^itu hamape (2)
>
>
>
> Its interesting that this song has "baavas" instead of "paavas".
> Anyone knows what "baavas" means ? Is it just a corrupted version of
> "paavas" ? May be through "baavas" we might be able to go to the roots
> of "paavas". As we know from the current discussion, there's is still
> some doubt as to what it means.... "pauSh the month" or "paavas (rain
> in marathi) the season" ?
>
Not so fast, Nipun. The song uses the word 'paavas' only.
The first time, Saigal has pronounced it pretty clearly as
'paavas'. The second time, it sounds like a cross between
'paavas' and 'baavas'. It happens for innumerable words
in songs and is no reason to suspect that the word may be
'baavas'.
Nor should there be any doubt about what the word 'paavas'
means. Check its meaning in dictionary. It means 'rainy season'.
- dn
Surajit A. Bose
nipu...@hotmail.com (Nipun Shah) wrote:
> Its interesting that this song has "baavas" instead of "paavas".
> Anyone knows what "baavas" means ? Is it just a corrupted version of
> "paavas" ? May be through "baavas" we might be able to go to the roots
> of "paavas". As we know from the current discussion, there's is still
> some doubt as to what it means.... "pauSh the month" or "paavas (rain
> in marathi) the season" ?
Don't get all excited, big fella. Chances are Vijay misheard. He had
made the same mistake ("baavas" for "paavas") when he posted the lyrics
of that marvellous Sabita Chaudhuri - Usha Mangeshkar duet from Kavi
Kalidas, "aaj kii raat, aaj kii raat":
basantii Rut nayano me.n aaj kii paavas ban ke chhaa_ii hai
...thankfully, he has corrected the version in the C-ISB.
-s