RJGK's SECOND anniversary !!
SAMIUDDIN MOHAMMED
Yo Sangeet ke duniya ke bhaio aur baheno!
What's the significance of July 4 ? Well, on July 4 1995, "Rmim"-Jhim Geeton Ki
or RJGK as it is popularly called, celebrates its second "Saalgirah" ! It has
been 2 years since the first RJGK was posted on this day in 1993 and we have
since had 24 quizzes at exactly 1 quiz per year. Thanks to all RMIMers for
making this quiz a success!
In order to really understand what this saalgirah means, visualize Nazir
Hussain patting RJGK on the back and pointing to a portrait on the wall and
saying with tears in his eyes, "RJGK, aaj teri Ma zinda hoti to kitna KHush
hoti" !! :-)
Renu is organizing the special quiz on the occasion of the 25th RJGK. She has
decided to give a breather after Mahesh's latest quiz on Lata and will
therefore be posting it in a couple of weeks.
In the meantime, here's a brief history of RJGK. I have listed the organizers,
winners and the themes for each RJGK. The first 2 quizzes weren't set to any
particular theme. The concept of dedicating each RJGK to a particular
singer/MD/lyricist etc. was introduced by Abhay Avachat in RJGK 3. The next
major change was introduced by Nuts who introduced the two-tier system. The
second phase gave additional clues to complement the lines from songs. To
escape Renu's wrath :-) for not mentioning her name, let me say that Renu and
Sandeep were the first to modify Nuts' additional clue system by clubbing it
in the first phase itself and coming up with a single pot system.
We've had 24 quizzes over the past two years, one/per month. The dates shown
below are approximate. A copy of the first RJGK has been appended for those
who missed it earlier. All the quizzes can be accessed via my WWW home page.
The URL is:
http://www.lehigh.edu/sm0e/public/www-data/sm0e.html
One final thing. ALL quiz organizers claim that the MOST important thing is
participation. So, it is natural that we should have a prize for the RMIMer
who participated in the most number of RJGK's so far. So, the winner of the
award for participating in the most number of RJGK's or the guy who has
NOTHING BETTER TO DO IN LIFE :-) IS:
SAMI MOHAMMED !!
(participated in 20 RJGK's and organized the other 4)
Hey, I even participated in Nitin's RJGK on Shanky-J. So, don't u think I
deserve some kind of award ??? :-) I was actually going to come up with the
top 5 list in terms of participation, but didn't get the time to do so :-(
Maybe, I'll do it later.
Sami Mohammed (A Naushad fan).... looking forward to RJGK 25!
Here is the list of winners with the top score show in the brackets. Congrats
to each one of them again!
RJGK 1: July 4, 1993
Organizer: Sami Mohammed
Theme: General
Winners:
1. Rajan Modi (14/16)
2. Mittal V., Dinesh Sharma, Mahesh Shingane
3. Chetan Vinchhi, Arati Deo, D.Alok
RJGK 2: July 29, 1993
Organizer: Angela Manawalia
Theme: General
RJGK 3: August 18, 1993
Organizer: Abhay Avachat
Theme: Mohammed Rafi
Winners:
1. Rajesh Subramanian (21/25)
2. Rajat Bhatnagar
3. Porky and JG
RJGK 4: September 2, 1993
Organizer: Vivek Vohra
Theme: Kishore Kumar
Winners:
1. Rajesh Subramanian (24/30)
2. Aniruddha Deglurkar
3. Ashish Bokil
RJGK 5: October 14, 1993
Organizer: Sami Mohammed
Theme: Duets
Winners:
1. Anuj Verma (19/25)
2. Dinesh Sharma
3. Sunil Banwari
RJGK 6: November 11, 1993
Organizer: JG
Theme: Lata Mangeshkar
Winners:
1. Anita Dheer and Preeti Kharga (25/30)
2. Sanjay Sondhi
3. Dinesh Sharma
RJGK 7: January 5, 1994
Organizers: Preetham Gopalaswamy and Rajan Parrikar
Theme: Mukesh
RJGK 8: March 30, 1994
Organizer: Sami Mohammed
Theme: R.D. Burman
Winners:
1. Charu Varshney and Aniruddha Deglurkar (22/25)
2. Sandeep Joshi
3. Raj, Porky, Manish
RJGK 9: May 6, 1994
Organizers: Ashish Bokil and Sandeep Joshi
Theme: Gulzar
Winners:
1. Mahesh Chaubal
2. Nitin Joshi
3. Anita Dhir
RJGK 10: June 2, 1994
Organizer: Renu Thamma
Theme: Asha Bhosale
Winners:
1. Sandeep Joshi (29/30)
2. Mahesh Chaubal and Nitin Joshi
3. Charu Varshney
RJGK 11: July 7, 1994
Organizers: Ketan Dholakia and Rajan Parrikar
Theme: S.D. Burman
Winners:
1. Anirudhh Deglurkar (25/25)
2. Ajay Divekar
3. Anita Dhir
RJGK 12: August 1, 1994
Organizer: Nuts
Theme: K.J. Yesudas
Winners:
1. Pradeep Dubey, Ramesh Hariharan, Anita Dhir, Unni Narayanan (20/20 each)
RJGK 13: September 5, 1994
Organizer: Srinath Ekkad
Theme: Bhoole Bisre Geet
Winners:
1. Anita Dhir (21/22)
2. R.S. Chandel
3. Sami Mohammed
RJGK 14: September 28, 1994
Organizer: Ajay Nerurkar
Theme: Naushad Ali
Winners:
1. Sami Mohammed (23/27)
2. R.S. Chandel
3. Biju Parmeshwaran
RJGK 15: November 1, 1994
Organizer: Renu Thamma and Sandeep Joshi
Theme: Laxmikanth Pyarelal
Winners: (Info. requested :-( Renu, please help)
1.
2.
3.
RJGK 16: November 26, 1994
Organizer: Ramesh Hariharan
Theme: Manna Dey
Winners:
1. Vish Krishnan (23/23 + 0/2)
2. Sangeeta Thakur
3. Neeraj Malhotra
RJGK 17: December 21, 1994
Organizer: Ambrish Sundaram
Theme: Hemant Kumar
Winners:
1. Vish Krishnan, Prince Kohli & Neeraj Malhotra, Ramesh Hariharan & Seema
Varma & Seema's mom (30/30)
RJGK 18: February 1, 1995
Organizer: Ajay Divekar and Rahul Herwadkar
Theme: Amitabh Bachhan
Winners:
1. Surender Mohan (35/36)
2. Renu Thamma
3. Sandeep Joshi, Neeraj Malhotra
RJGK 19: March 4, 1995
Organizer: Kedar Naphade
Theme: Songs based on Ragas
Winners:
1. Ramesh Hariharan & Seema Varma & Seema's mom (24/24 + 1/2)
2. Prashant Kulkarni
3. Priya K & Kallol M and Angela S
RJGK 20: March 28, 1995
Organizer: Nitin Joshi
Theme: Shankar Jaikishan
Winners:
1. Guri, Roopa & Ajit (25/25 each)
2. Sandeep Joshi
3. Biju Parmeshwaran
RJGK 21: April 17, 1995
Organizer: Neeraj Malhotra
Theme: Guldasta (Non-Mangeshkar female singers)
Winners:
1. Guri (32/32)
2. Ashok Dhareshwar & Preeti Ranjan Panda
3. Roopa Dhawan & Ajit Dandekar
RJGK 22: May 9, 1995
Organizer: Guri
Theme: Sahir Ludhianwi
Winners:
1. Vish Krishan (31/31, earliest entry)
2. Ashok Dhareshwar & Preeti Ranjan Panda, Prince Kohli & Neeraj Malhotra
(31/31 each)
RJGK 23: May 21, 1995
Organizer: Sami Mohammed
Theme: Talat Mehmood
Winners:
1. Guri, Preeti Ranjan Panda & Ashok Dhareshwar (30/30)
2. Prince Kohli & Neeraj Malhotra
3. Surjit Singh & Harmesh Kaur, Balaji & Malini, Ashish Bokil & Renu Thamma,
Roopa Dhawana & Ajit Dandekar & Janhavi Raut.
RJGK 24: June 16, 1995
Organizer: Mahesh Chaubal
Theme: Lata Mangeshkar
Winners:
1. Chetan Vinchhi & Ajay Divekar & Ashok Dhareshwar, Balaji & Malini (24/24
each)
2. Neeraj Malhotra & Prince Kohli
3. Hemlata and Vinay Mishra, Roopa Dhawan & Ajit Dandekar
I wanted to make a list of the guys who aced the quiz the max. no. of times,
but am too tired :-(
Sami Mohammed (A Naushad fan)..... Hum itihaas banaate nahin, type karte hain!
@Begin(RJGK1)
>From: sm...@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (SAMIUDDIN MOHAMMED)
>Subject:\*\*\*\* "Rmim"-Jhim Geeton Ki \*\*\*\* (Quiz)
>Date: 4 Jul 93 03:40:59 GMT
>Message-ID:<1993Jul4.0...@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>
>
> **** "Rmim"-Jhim Geeton Ki ****
>
>Hi Rmim sangeet premio!
>
>Here is a quiz of a different kind. Before I go into the details, let me
>request you NOT TO POST YOUR ANSWERS ON THE NET. Instead, Please e-mail them
>directly to me. I will post the results and the answers in a couple of weeks.
>
>
>This is based on the idea of Kumara Thirumalai who suggested that we have a
>quiz on the net and have the answers e-mailed directly "so that it can be
>graded and we can just have friendly competition....." I will grade the
>responses and post the results on the net in 2 weeks. And remember, you must
>get atleast a B in order to be guaranteed further support on Rmim :-)
>
>OK, so here's how the quiz goes: You don't need to name a singer, actor,
>lyricist, MD etc. All you have to do is to IDENTIFY the song. The clues given
>below are lines occuring somewhere in the song (not necessarily the opening
>stanza or the opening line of any other stanza). Eg:
>
>Clue: "Logon ko aatay hain do nazar ham magar........."
>
>Ans: This is, as you all must've guessed, part of the song from Sholay. Hence
>the correct answer would be "Ye dosti hum nahin chhoRengay......"
>
>Simple, isn't it ? So lets go ahead without any further ado....... There are
>15 clues listed in increasing order of difficulty (acc. to me).
>
>Good luck and may the best guy/gal win....
>
>
>Sami Mohammed (A Naushad fan)......... who hopes that you'll enjoy the quiz!
>
>
> **** CLUES ****
>
>1. Door rahti hai tu, kabhi paas aati nahin.....
>
>2. Aur sooni si lagay tumhay, jeevan ki ye dagar......
>
>3. Meethi chhuri (=knife) se hua halaal.......
>
>4. Naam likhdi hai zindagi teray, tujko apna banaey baithay hain.........
>
>5. Raaton se bhi lambay, ye pyaar ke kissay, aashiq sunatay hai jafa-e-yaar ke
> kisse
>
>6. Phoolega ek phool, khilega pyaar hamara.......
>
>7. Jo roz yunhi jaaogi, to kis tarah nibhaogi, ke zindagi ki raah me....
>
>8. Phool tum gulab ka, kya jawab aapka, jo ada hai lajawab hai......
>
>Now for some slightly more difficult ones...
>
>9. Aaj mere sangh tu, goonjay dil ki aarzoo.......
>
>10. Yun to hasinon ke, mahjabeenon ke, hotay hain roz nazaray......
>
>11. Kehnay ko to duniya may, maiKhaney hazaron hai......
>
>12. Ke saaqi ne lub se meray cheen kar, kisi aur ko jaam kyun day diya.....
>
>13. Jhat nainan may kajra laga baithi...........
>
>14. Ye phool chaman me kaisa khila, maali ki nazar me pyaar nahin.........
>
>15. Usay ek khoobsoorat mod (turn) dekar chhoRna achha.......
>
>Now for the tie-breaker (in case of a tie, this will be decider)...
>
>16. Paayal ke ghamon ka ilm nahin, jhankar ki baaten kartay hai.... (HINT: Its
>from a very famous Naushad movie)
>
>
>Looking forward to receiving some interesting responses........
@End(RJGK1)
SAMIUDDIN MOHAMMED
>
>
>Yo Sangeet ke duniya ke bhaio aur baheno!
>
>What's the significance of July 4 ? Well, on July 4 1995, "Rmim"-Jhim Geeton Ki
>or RJGK as it is popularly called, celebrates its second "Saalgirah" ! It has
>been 2 years since the first RJGK was posted on this day in 1993 and we have
>since had 24 quizzes at exactly 1 quiz per year. Thanks to all RMIMers for
Pardonez moi. That shud be 1 quiz per month... 1 quiz per year isn't exactly
a successful series :-)
Sami Mohammed (A Naushad fan)
Ashok
important statistic: participation! I was about to e-mail Sami when I realized
he must be tired! So I visited Sami's home page and collected whatever information
I could. Here it is. The first figure is the number of entries and the second
figure is the number of people involved; the second number is higher, of course,
because of joint entries, but equally important because what we really want is
more involvement, more people to share the joy of our popular music.
RJGK Theme Entries Participation
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 General 18 18
3 Happy solos of Rafi 21 21
4 Kishore 24 24
5 Super duets 14 15
6 Lata 17 17
8 RD Burman 28 28
9 Gulzar 30 32
10 Asha 17 22
11 SD Burman 33 41
12 Yesudas 35 37
13 Songs from B&W era 10 11
14 Naushad 12 12
15 L-P ? ?
16 Manna Dey 28 38
17 Hemant (as singer) 20 25
18 Amitabh 17 21
19 Sargam 25 34
20 S-J ? ?
21 'Have not' female singers 19 26
22 Sahir 19 26
23 Talat 36 49
24 Lata, volume II 23 41
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For comparison, Chitrahaar
1 General 37 49
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ashok
PS: Sami, couldn't access the solution file for RJGK-20.
Ikram Ahmed Khan
: RJGK Theme Entries Participation
: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
: 21 'Have not' female singers 19 26
Ashok saab, Sami saab toh achhey aadmi nikley , flame war naheeN huee...
MaiN bhi normally utna buraa aadmi naheeN hooN lekin to call ppl like Asha
or Geeta Dutt as havenots!!! Mujhse toh shaayad sehn naheeN hoga...
So if you are feeling like a nice friendly flame war, consider the
gauntlet thrown, the glove slapped and other such things.....
:) :)
Later,
Ikram.
: For comparison, Chitrahaar
: 1 General 37 49
: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Haai, kab aayega asli mazaa......
Abhay saab awaiting it eagerly.... :)
Later,
Ikram.
: Ashok
Ashok
>Ashok (ADhar...@WorldBank.org) wrote:
>: 21 'Have not' female singers 19 26
>
> Ashok saab, Sami saab toh achhey aadmi nikley , flame war naheeN huee...MaiN bhi normally utna buraa aadmi naheeN hooN lekin to c=
all ppl like Asha or Geeta Dutt as havenots!!! Mujhse toh shaayad sehn naheeN hoga... So if you are feeling like a nice friendly fla=
me war, consider the gauntlet thrown, the glove slapped and other such things.....
> Later,
> Ikram.
Ikram bhai,
Vaise to mai.n jwala-yuddh koi buree cheez nahin samajhta ;) Aur is
particular gauntlet ke baare men, do baat: Ek to, Neeraj's guldasta was
defined as 'Non-Mangeshkar Female Singers.' She specifically meant to
exclude Lata _and_ Asha (with no one having a strong feeling which way to
classify Usha Mangeshkar). So, Asha is one of the 'Haves'
Second, use of the expression 'Have/Have-not' was just a whimsical (some
might say, loaded) way of saying that, among female playback singers in
Hindi, Lata and Asha have gotten more than their due and most of the
others have gotten less their due (in some cases, far less), in terms of
number and range of songs, commercial quality of films featuring their
songs and recognition. I would say it holds for Geeta Dutt. The only
iffy case is perhaps Noorjahan, but I would argue that it's true of her
also, so far as recognition in India is concerned. (Judging from Vish
Krishnan's articles on Lata-Noorjahan, due to the unnecessary barriers
to the free flow of artistic output between neighbors, we have been
deprived of many gems she's produced since '48. Main beneficiaries of
barriers are sugglers, drug-pushers, and plagiarising MDs).
Ho gaya TKO? :)) ek, do, teen, char, paanch, chhe, saat, .... ;)
Ashok
U.V Ravindra
Ashok <ADhar...@worldbank.org> writes:
> iak...@tamu.edu (Ikram Ahmed Khan) wrote:
> >Ashok (ADhar...@WorldBank.org) wrote:
>
> >: 21 'Have not' female singers 19 26
> >
> > So if you are feeling like a nice friendly
> > flame war, consider the gauntlet thrown, the glove slapped and other
> > such things.....
>
> Ikram bhai,
>
> Vaise to mai.n jwala-yuddh koi buree cheez nahin samajhta ;)
[*snip*]
<Ashok's attempts to "paani-dalo" on the "agni-baaN" thrown by the rt.
honourable Ikram bhai :) :) :)>
> The only
> iffy case is perhaps Noorjahan, but I would argue that [the
> "have-not" label]'s true of her
> also, so far as recognition in India is concerned. (Judging from Vish
> Krishnan's articles on Lata-Noorjahan, due to the unnecessary barriers
> to the free flow of artistic output between neighbors, we have been
> deprived of many gems she's produced since '48. Main beneficiaries of
> barriers are sugglers, drug-pushers, and plagiarising MDs).
Speaking of plagiarizing MD's Ashok, have you noticed the "one-to-one"
similarity between the tune of "mujh se pehli si muhabbat mere mehboob
na maaNg," by Noorjehan (set to music by I-dunno-who) and the tune of
"aainaa mujh se meri pehli si soorat maaNge" from the Anupam
Kher-Pooja Bhatt movie "Daddy"? This music is by Rajesh Roshan, who,
I thought, was above these petty music plagiarism controversies.
Looks like I was sadly mistaken.
We should tell our MDs and lyricists, that just because the song is
from Pakistan, it doesn't mean no one has heard it here!
>
> Ho gaya TKO? :)) ek, do, teen, char, paanch, chhe, saat, .... ;)
>
Come on Ikram-bhai. You can do it! :) :) :) dus tak Ashok-ji ki
ginati nahiN pahuNchne paaye! ;-) :)
> Ashok
Neeraj Malhotra
the past RJGKs.
Here are the missing facts :
RJGK Theme Entries Participation
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
15 L-P 41 54
.... Takes the cake for maximum number of participants ever !!!
Congratulations Renu & Sandeep for arranging this one.
WINNERS for #15 :
1. Satish Maruvada with a perfect score of 25 + 2!!
2. Samiuddin Mohammed
3. Hemlata & Vinay Mishra
Nitin Joshi + Mahesh Chaubal
20 S-J ? ?
.... The results were posted in 2 parts. I lost the second part. Perhaps
Nitin can fill in the blanks.
21 'Have not' female singers 19 26
.... Just a minor correction Ashok :)... The title was NOT 'Have not' female
singers but 'GULDASTA'... and it was meant to be such. Our music
industry has had many many singers both female and male. All kinds
of music is to be found here to suite every taste. You want typical
classical... You will find it in the voices of K. L. Saigal, Pt. Bhimsen
Joshi, Ustad Bade Gulaam Ali Khan and even in the most recent films
such as Lekin... Thousands of songs based on classical music in a typical
classical style or the light version... Take your pick. Pt. Ravi Shankar
also has made his contribution & So have the more contempories like
Shiv-Hari.
Well, that is not your style you prefer Ghazals & Qwaalis in typical
Urdu... The film music is rich. While an average listener may not
otherwise listen to great poets, film music has brought the ghazals of
Mir, Mirza Ghalib, Bahadur Shah Zafar to the masses.
The qwaali scene is rich with the wonderful music of Roshan !
Shift your gear... They can mix West & East successfully too..
Rafi can give you all the styles you want ! He can sing you a beauty
in classical style such as 'Man Tarpat Hari Darshan' & 'Man Ki Been
Matwari Baaje' OR 'Yahooooo !! Chahe koi mujhe jangi kahe' ( Sami,
no flames !! )..
You want Bhajans, we have Bhajans, the young croud wants to dance to a
fast beat.. we have 'ek do teen, chaar paanch..'.
You want rich serious lyrics... you can listen to 'Ye duniya agar
mil bhi jaaye to kya hai'. You want light stuff.. you have
'Shola jo bhaDke, dil mera dhaDke' or 'aana meri jaan meri jaan
sunday ke sunday'... So light & heavy have gone hand in hand for decades
not just today.
Not every song has to be liked by everyone nor does every song suite
everyone's taste.. but in this rich world of music, you can take
your pick and enjoy what you like.
The point of the 'Guldasta' was to bring out the richness of this
industry and the voices of its richness. The different styles of
singers and the songs they have given us. Remember the Qwaali of
Mughal-e-azam... 'Teri mehfil mein kismet azma ke hum bhi dekhenge'..
It is rich because of the contrasting voices of Lata & Shamshad...
Try to hear it with both parts sung by Lata or by Lata & Asha..
The effect will be lost !
I certainly would not classify Shamshad as the 'have not' or
Geeta Dutt as 'have not'. The music industry would have something
missing if we did not have 'Jaane kyaa tune kahi' or 'mera naam chin
chin choo' or 'na jaao saiyyan chuda ke baiyaan'...
They are the flowers that make a bouquet... A bouquet to be cherished
not deemed 'have-nots'.
- Neeraj Malhotra.
p.s. An RJGK on Geeta Dutt will be forthcoming !
Neeraj Malhotra
Here are the missing facts :
RJGK Theme Entries Participation
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
20 S-J 34 41
- Neeraj Malhotra.
SAMIUDDIN MOHAMMED
>Speaking of plagiarizing MD's Ashok, have you noticed the "one-to-one"
>similarity between the tune of "mujh se pehli si muhabbat mere mehboob
>na maaNg," by Noorjehan (set to music by I-dunno-who) and the tune of
>"aainaa mujh se meri pehli si soorat maaNge" from the Anupam
>Kher-Pooja Bhatt movie "Daddy"? This music is by Rajesh Roshan, who,
>I thought, was above these petty music plagiarism controversies.
>Looks like I was sadly mistaken.
Oh yes, u sure were mistaken. Rajesh Roshan did copy. Rem. the Khuddaar song
"Disco '82..." ?? Well, the tune of the stanzas is an exact copy of the
interludes of an old Mukesh song "Apni nazar se unki nazar tak....".
Someone asked him, "Ye tere baap ki tune hai kya ?" And he truthfully replied
"YES!" :-) Guess who the MD of the Mukesh song was !! :-)
Sami Mohammed (A Naushad fan)... who ranks Rajesh Roshan's baap #2 among MD's.
________________________________________________________________________________
Sleep is a photocatalytic reaction; it requires sunlight!
(The graveyard shift Chemical Engineers Handbook)
________________________________________________________________________________
Rajan P. Parrikar
uvr@tata_elxsi.soft.net (U.V Ravindra) writes:
>baap ki tune to wiraasat samajh ke uThaa lee hogi, Rajesh ne, lekin
>woh Pakistani dhun to us ke baap ki dhun nahiN thee.
>
>This discussion reminds me of the song from the film "O Darling! Yeh
>Hai India" (*ing Shah Rukh Khan and ???) ...
>
> "beTaa baap se sawaayaa, beTa baap bech ke khaayaa"
>
>Anyone knows who the music director for this film is?
It is Ranjit Barot, whose sole claim to glory is that he is the
son of dancer Sitara Devi whose heavily made-up face once scared
the hell out of me. It also gave me fresh ideas for our Narakasura
mask for the following Diwali. He also used to be the drummer for an
atrocious desi rock group called "Rock Machine".
r
Ashok
> singers but 'GULDASTA'... and it was meant to be such.>
> Geeta Dutt as 'have not'. The music industry would have something
> missing if we did not have 'Jaane kyaa tune kahi' or 'mera naam chin
> chin choo' or 'na jaao saiyyan chuda ke baiyaan'...
>
> They are the flowers that make a bouquet... A bouquet to be cherished
> not deemed 'have-nots'.
>
> - Neeraj Malhotra.
>
> p.s. An RJGK on Geeta Dutt will be forthcoming !
>
Neeraj, I'm sorry. I was freely improvising in referring to various
RJGKs! I don't think we disagree with each other. I was using 'Have not'
in the sense of 'poor, less fortunate,'; no implication regarding
talent or contribution. In fact, many of the singers featured in the
Guldasta gave more than what they took.
Ashok
U.V Ravindra
sm...@Lehigh.EDU (SAMIUDDIN MOHAMMED) writes:
=> In article <9507101908.AA13717@tata_elxsi.soft.net>,
=> uvr@tata_elxsi.soft.net (U.V Ravindra) writes:
=>
=> >Speaking of plagiarizing MD's Ashok, have you noticed the "one-to-one"
=> >similarity between the tune of "mujh se pehli si muhabbat mere mehboob
=> >na maaNg," by Noorjehan (set to music by I-dunno-who) and the tune of
=> >"aainaa mujh se meri pehli si soorat maaNge" from the Anupam
=> >Kher-Pooja Bhatt movie "Daddy"? This music is by Rajesh Roshan, who,
=> >I thought, was above these petty music plagiarism controversies.
=> >Looks like I was sadly mistaken.
=>
=> Oh yes, u sure were mistaken. Rajesh Roshan did copy. Rem. the Khuddaar song
=> "Disco '82..." ?? Well, the tune of the stanzas is an exact copy of the
=> interludes of an old Mukesh song "Apni nazar se unki nazar tak....".
=>
=> Someone asked him, "Ye tere baap ki tune hai kya ?" And he
=> truthfully replied
=> "YES!" :-) Guess who the MD of the Mukesh song was !! :-)
=>
=> Sami Mohammed (A Naushad fan)... who ranks Rajesh Roshan's baap #2
=> among MD's.
=>
baap ki tune to wiraasat samajh ke uThaa lee hogi, Rajesh ne, lekin
woh Pakistani dhun to us ke baap ki dhun nahiN thee.
This discussion reminds me of the song from the film "O Darling! Yeh
Hai India" (*ing Shah Rukh Khan and ???) ...
"beTaa baap se sawaayaa, beTa baap bech ke khaayaa"
Anyone knows who the music director for this film is? It'd be too
much of an irony if it's Rajesh Roshan himself, wouldn't it? ;-) ;-)
Ravindra.
An out and out RAFI-an,
Who ranks even chhoTa-moTa MD's like C. Arjun higher than
plagiarising MDs. :-(
Ikram Ahmed Khan
: In article <3tmrcl$i...@minerva.worldbank.org>
: Ashok <ADhar...@worldbank.org> writes:
: > iak...@tamu.edu (Ikram Ahmed Khan) wrote:
: > >Ashok (ADhar...@WorldBank.org) wrote:
: >
: > >: 21 'Have not' female singers 19 26
: > >
: > > So if you are feeling like a nice friendly
: > > flame war, consider the gauntlet thrown, the glove slapped and other
: > > such things.....
: >
: >
: > Ho gaya TKO? :)) ek, do, teen, char, paanch, chhe, saat, .... ;)
: >
: Come on Ikram-bhai. You can do it! :) :) :) dus tak Ashok-ji ki
: ginati nahiN pahuNchne paaye! ;-) :)
Ravindraji, bechare Ashok saab ne yeh jo comment itnee aasaani se likh
diya, uskee vajeh se bechaare burre phanse. Bhai Ashokji, maaf kareiN main
aapka matlab naheeN samajh paaya and also as I wrongly attributed Asha B's
name among the non-Mangeshkar, I'll gladly take the count :) :) Btw, going
by the defn of "deserved but got not enough fame" I would say that even the
great Asha B and most definitely Geeta Dutt deserve to be
included.Personally ( I would like to stress that again.... I, Ikram,...) I
think that among all singers that I have had the fortune to hear and
appreciate, Noor Jehan's voice had that "raw appeal" discussed so nicely in
the article posted by Irfan bhai (agar kisee aur ne post kiye thhe toh bura
mat maaniyega :) :)), whereas Geeta's voice had the most wondrous quality
of all ( and *I* mean *all*)... I still cannot imagine anybody else singing
"Nannhee kalee sone chali hawaa dheere aana" with the same thing in the
voice. Sure Lata could have sung it and sung it great too. But no, she
wouldn't have been able to do it as brilliantly as Geeta. It wouldn't have
been haunting enough in quality. Btw, I agree that Lata has several songs
that maybe are equally haunting . And Asha has the most versatile voice.
Again I agree that Asha couldn't have sung BaahoN meiN chale aao better or
for that matter "Aa~~ jaan-e-jaaN", but for overall range , in my book, she
remains Queen and personal favorite.
Btw, I don't know to how many of you the thought must have already occured,
but I always felt that just as Lata used to try to imitate Noor jehan in
the beginning of her career, Asha did the same for Geeta. How about
discussing this and leaving any flame wars or jwala-yudh as Ashokji put it
behind us :) :) :)
Later,
Ikram.
(who still took the count even tho' UVR was in my corner of the ring :) ;) )
: > Ashok
U.V Ravindra
> Btw, I don't know to how many of you the thought must have already occured,
> but I always felt that just as Lata used to try to imitate Noor jehan in
> the beginning of her career, Asha did the same for Geeta. How about
> discussing this and leaving any flame wars or jwala-yudh as Ashokji put it
> behind us :) :) :)
It's a good point that you have raised, Ikram-bhai, and I agree with
you whole-heartedly. I dare say I think we'll have quite a few other
RMIM-brethren with us on this matter. Speaking of the Lata-Noorjehan
similarity, it is not just the striking similarity between the
*singing* styles of young-Lata with established-NoorJehan that one can
observe, it is also other aspects of singing. In fact, in *my*
opinion, Lata doesn't sound as much like Noorjehan as she does like
the other great gaayikaa of that period, Suraiya. With Suraiya and
Lata, it is not just the similarity between the voice or singing
style, it is also the remarkable likeness of pronunciation,
intonation, breathing-while-singing, in short, every conceivable
aspect of singing. Suraiya and Noorjehan were two of the best women
to have sung for Hindi films when Lata came in, and I think Lata took
a generous helping of the good points of both these singers when she
developed her singing style gradually. The soft-silkiness of
Suraiya's voice, with the sheer power of Noorjehan's rendering, the
clear diction in Noorjehan's voice, coupled with the maasoomiyat of
Suraiya ... oh, these were the veritable dynamite-mixtures that Lata
manufactured from the singing styles of these great women. The
"power" of Lata's voice in "aayegaa aane waalaa," "woh to chale gaye
ai dil yaad se un ki pyaar kar," and "ruk jaa raat Thehar jaa re
chandaa" comes out of her imbibing the wazan of Noorjehan's voice in
"aawaaz de kahaaN hai, duniyaa meri jawaaN hai", whereas the "Tees" in
her voice in "mushkil hai bahut mushkil," "aajaa re pardesi," "dil
dhaD.ke nazar sharmaaye," and "chaaNd phir niklaa," is the result of
her filtering drinking in Suraiya's sweetness in "nuktacheeN hai
GHam-e-dil". What I mean to say is that Lata is great not only
because she had (note that "HAD!") a great voice, but also because she
took care to imbibe what was good in the voices of her successful
predecessors.
As far as Asha's "imitation" of Geeta Dutt goes, I do agree that she
(Asha) started off that way, and gradually even sang some songs which
were really in the Geeta Dutt style (but which Geeta herself wouldn't
have probably sung that well). "jaaiye aap kahaaN jaayeNge," "aao
huzoor tum ko sitaaroN meiN le chalooN," and others are examples of
this. However, she soon got influenced (and positively so) by her
elder sister's singing style and tried to sound much less like Geeta
Dutt. With the result that she came out with such wonderful gems like
(our recent RMIM favourite) "maiN jab bhi akeli hoti hooN," "jahaaN
meiN aisaa kaun hai ke jis ko GHam milaa nahiN," and "jab chali
ThanDee hawaa, jab uThee kaali ghaTaa, mujh ko ai jaan-e-wafaa, tum
yaad aaye." The last mentioned, IMO, ranks amongst one of her very
best songs ever. Even if Asha had tried to continue in the Geeta Dutt
style, I doubt if she could have worked as many wonders as Geeta Dutt
did, because, even till as "late" in her career as "Kashmir ki Kali,"
Asha had that "little schoolgirl"-ish voice which she had in "Mere
Sanam" and the like. Of course, she sang such gems as "bhaNwaraa
baD.aa naadaan, haay!" (ah! the way she says "haay!" -- she steals my
heart away!), but she could never have come up with the weight that
was needed in "waqt ne kiyaa kyaa haseeN sitam," or with the *measured
and testy* naughtiness which was needed in "na jaao saiyaaN chuD.aa ke
baiyaaN" It was only Geeta Dutt who could vary the weight in
her voice at will in this fashion. Till her last breath Geeta Dutt
had that naughtiness that I mentioned -- "meri jaaN! mujhe jaaN na
kaho, meri jaaN!", while Asha's schoolgirlish charm continued till her
"Utsav" performance with her elder sister. Take one hearing at "man
kyooN behkaa ri behkaa aadhi raat ko ..."
It isn't possible to say who was greater, even if one copied the
other, in these cases. That's not like today. There are at least six
women who try to sing like Lata used to (note "USED TO"), and none of
them succeeds in doing anything but reconfirming your misgivings about
the future of Hindi Film music. Someone should tell them that
*imitation* means *imbibing good points* and not being a *carbon copy*
or *tape-record* of the original ...
But then, as I always say, such is life.
> Later,
> Ikram.
> (who still took the count even tho' UVR was in my corner of the ring :) ;) )
>
Ravindra.
Who's still on Ikram's side despite ... :-) :-)
Pavan Kumar Desikan
: In article <3u7mlg$c...@news.tamu.edu>
: > Btw, I don't know to how many of you the thought must have already occured,
: > but I always felt that just as Lata used to try to imitate Noor jehan in
: > the beginning of her career, Asha did the same for Geeta. How about
: > discussing this and leaving any flame wars or jwala-yudh as Ashokji put it
: > behind us :) :) :)
: It's a good point that you have raised, Ikram-bhai, and I agree with
: you whole-heartedly. I dare say I think we'll have quite a few other
: RMIM-brethren with us on this matter. Speaking of the Lata-Noorjehan
: similarity, it is not just the striking similarity between the
: *singing* styles of young-Lata with established-NoorJehan that one can
: observe, it is also other aspects of singing. In fact, in *my*
: opinion, Lata doesn't sound as much like Noorjehan as she does like
: the other great gaayikaa of that period, Suraiya.
I think that it should be the other way round. It was Suraiyya, who might have
the aspects of singing that you mention from Lata. I have only heard
"Lata-like" Suraiyya in the movies Shama and Mirza Ghalib, bith under the
music direction of Ghulam Mohd, and both of the movies were released when
Lata had already made her mark. Lata sounded a lot like Noorjehan in her
earlier songs - a voice which sounded kind of childish and untrained but
slowly her voice became more controlled and mature(I personally like the
Noor Jehanesque Lata better). The transition can be observed from Chale
jaana nahin nain milaake through mohe bhool gaye saanwariyaa and then
nainon mein badraa chaaye by which time her voice was way too mature and
had lost the pristineness that was present originally. Suraiyya on the
other hand had lots of good songs, but the style was more in tandem with
the other singers of that era(sans Noor Jehan) and she kind of faded away
when a new crop of singers like Lata, Geeta began taking over. It was
Ghulam Mohd who gave a new life to her with MIrzaa Ghalib, which IMO is
one of Suraiyya's best. But unfortunately, she did not get many singing
opportunities later inspite of her superlative performance in Mirza Ghalib.
: Ravindra.
: Who's still on Ikram's side despite ... :-) :-)
--
Pavan Kumar Desikan
Department of Computer Science, Duke University, Durham, NC 27708-0129
Internet: p...@cs.duke.edu
HTTP : http://www.cs.duke.edu/~pkd
U.V Ravindra
p...@duke.cs.duke.edu (Pavan Kumar Desikan) "P" writes:
> U.V Ravindra (uvr@tata_elxsi.soft.net) "U" wrote:
>>:In article <3u7mlg$c...@news.tamu.edu>
>:iak...@tamu.edu (Ikram Ahmed Khan) "I"> writes:
I>:> but I always felt that just as Lata used to try to imitate Noor jehan in
I>:> the beginning of her career, Asha did the same for Geeta. How about
I>:> discussing this
U> : Speaking of the Lata-Noorjehan
U> : similarity, it is not just the striking similarity between the
U> : *singing* styles of young-Lata with established-NoorJehan that one can
U> : observe, it is also other aspects of singing. In fact, in *my*
U> : opinion, Lata doesn't sound as much like Noorjehan as she does like
U> : the other great gaayikaa of that period, Suraiya.
P> I think that it should be the other way round. It was Suraiyya, who
P> might have imbibed
P> the aspects of singing that you mention from Lata. I have only heard
P> "Lata-like" Suraiyya in the movies Shama and Mirza Ghalib, bith under the
P> music direction of Ghulam Mohd, and both of the movies were released when
P> Lata had already made her mark. Lata sounded a lot like Noorjehan in her
P> earlier songs - a voice which sounded kind of childish and untrained but
P> slowly her voice became more controlled and mature(I personally like the
P> Noor Jehanesque Lata better). The transition can be observed from Chale
P> jaana nahin nain milaake through mohe bhool gaye saanwariyaa and then
P> nainon mein badraa chaaye by which time her voice was way too mature and
P> had lost the pristineness that was present originally.
I agree that Suraiya soungs "Lata-esque" only in Ghulam Mohammed's
Mirza Ghalib, but that wasn't the point I was trying to make. I was
trying to say that Lata (who entered the films *after* Suraiya did)
has imbibed the good points of both Noor Jehan and Suraiya in her
singing. NoorJehan (IMO) had a *great* voice, a full and power-packed
voice, but I sincerely feel she was a trifle lacking in the softness
part. This is *my* opinion and you may disagree with it. However,
Suraiya's voice had that soft quality which you can find in early
Lata, especially in her songs from Mahal. Lata's greatness lies in
recognising the positive points of both these great songstresses and
in imbibing these points into her singing, and in evolving an
extremely emotive and touching style of her own.
Another point that you have made is that Lata's voice was "far too
mature" by the time she sang "nainoN meiN badraa chaaye" for
MadanMohan in Mera Saya. I disagree with "far to mature". Listen to
songs like "baahoN meiN chale aao," "dilbar dil se pyaare (Kaarvaan),"
"aa jaa aayi bahaar, dil hai beqaraar," or even "naa jiya laage naa,
tere binaa meraa kahiN jiyaa lage naa", from later years. What you
are calling "overmaturity" is in fact Lata's capability at voice
modulation, which, though not unparalleled or unique, is *very* good
indeed! "nainoN meiN badraa chaaye" *demanded* a heavy and
"classical" andaaz, which is what Lata gave it.
Overmaturity in Lata's voice IMO started setting around-about the time
when "aaNdhi" was being shot. If you listen to her in "is moD. se
jaate haiN," you can make out the faint falter in her voice as she
sings the "aa~~~ is moD. se jaate haiN" line. IMO, her insistence at
singing in a high pitched voice made it necessary for her to take on a
different kind of voice modulation, which necessitates constriction of
the vocal chords as the voice tries to produce notes in the higher
octaves. Listen to the Lata in "chaaNd phir niklaa" and "is moD. se
jaate haiN" to see the contrast in the voices and comprehend what I am
trying to say.
> Suraiyya on the
> other hand had lots of good songs, but the style was more in tandem with
> the other singers of that era(sans Noor Jehan) and she kind of faded away
> when a new crop of singers like Lata, Geeta began taking over. It was
> Ghulam Mohd who gave a new life to her with MIrzaa Ghalib, which IMO is
> one of Suraiyya's best. But unfortunately, she did not get many singing
> opportunities later inspite of her superlative performance in Mirza
> Ghalib.
Pavan, I think you are giving Suraiya credit for much less than she
deserves. Yes, she *did* sound more like the other singers of her
time than like Noor Jehan. However, the likeness ends there. Hers
was as new and unique a style of singing as Noor Jehan's. I
personally feel that because Suraiya was sandwiched between the
careers of two of the greatest singers of all time, namely Noor Jehan
and Lata, her real talents have gone largely unnoticed by the Indian
Public, and of course, by RMIM. My memory of song-names with respect
to Suraiya is quite bad, and my remembrance of film names was never
good, so I can't give you any examples. :-(
Speaking of Suraiya, do you know that after she fell out of favour
with the Indian public, she really became very poor, and had nothing
to her name except LPs and EPs of her songs ... and one day, the house
was burgled and even those LPs and EPs were stolen ... ... jo kuchh
zindagi meiN haasil kiyaa thaa, us ki chhoTi si nishaani bhi baaqi
nahiN rahi ... I believe she never quite recovered from that shock and
died a sad death :-( Can anyone confirm this story? Ashok?
Ravindra.
bhagwaan aisaa dukhad ant kisi ko na de :-( :-(
U.V Ravindra
=> > p...@duke.cs.duke.edu (Pavan Kumar Desikan) "P" writes:
=> >
=> >
=> > > Suraiyya on the
=> > > other hand had lots of good songs, but the style was more in tandem with
=> > > the other singers of that era(sans Noor Jehan) and she kind of faded away
=> > > when a new crop of singers like Lata, Geeta began taking over. It was
[*snip*]
In article <3ujju8$d...@minerva.worldbank.org>
Ashok <ADhar...@WorldBank.org> writes:
=> Do bear in mind that Suraiya was first and foremost a leading lady, a proper
=> A-grade star, who has acted opposite the likes of Saigal, Dilip, Dev, and
=> Raj Kapoor. I have heard that Dev-Suraiya was a popular romantic pair. Perhaps
=> no one (least of all herself) thought of a career as a pure playback singer
=> for her. After all, it took more than two decades and a stroke of genius from the
=> Burmans before Kishore could be lauched as a fullfledged playback singer. Talat
=> did make the transition, but then again, he didn't have much going for him
=> 'on the screen.' So, you cannot really talk about opportunities to sing in
=> her case, only opportunities as an actress who happens to be a
=> singer also.
Ashok! You have made exactly the point that I was thinking of putting
forward. IMO, the public's opinion that Suraiya was, as you say
above, "first and foremost a leading lady" was the real cause of her
singing talents being neglected. You have classified Suraiya as "an
actress who happens to be a singer also." I'd put her as "an
excellent singer, who, because she acted decently well and looked
reasonably good, became a leading lady. As we all know, there was a
heavy demand for actress-singers/singer-actresses in the days when
Suraiya came into the film line. Her acting talents (I don't care
much for them, but I remember one of my uncles saying that she used to
act well) eventually foreshadowed her singing prowess ... by the time
she became a frontline actress, the necessity for an actress to be a
singer too had been removed, and playback singing had already gained a
strong foothold in the industry. Consequently, Suraiya remained an
actress more than a singer, and retired from the film industry that
way. I think (and this is my opinion) that Suraiya had the misfortune
of coming into the industry when a great singer like Noorjehan was
already established. She just had to play second fiddle to Noorjehan.
I think, if Suraiya had not been around when someone of considerably
greater talent as Noorjehan was ruling the roost (wrong terminology, I
guess, but what the heck, this is *our* RMIM), then she would have had
much greater success. Also, Lata had already come in to the industry
by the time Noorjehan went to Pakistan, and Suraiya really never got a
chance to be properly appreciated by the masses. It's a sad story,
yes, that a person of such talent can go unrecognised. I remember
some sloka that I read in my 10th class Sanskrit text (Pintu-ji,
please complete it for me, for I forget the words):
kusumastabakasyeva dve vRttee maneeShiNa:,
moordhni vaa tishThante, ksheeyante vaa <something>
meaning basically that just like flower-petals, great people are of
two kinds: either they sit at the top (moordhni), or they just perish
in the sand...
IM*H*O, that's what happened to Suraiya.
=> Sometime ago I had seen an old footage of a Filmfare Awards ceremony, where
=> Dil Apni Aur Preet Parai had won the music award. Suraiya presented the
=> title song from the film on stage. It was a poor effort.
But, of course! She was old and past her prime by then. Why talk of
Suraiya? Ask Lata herself to sing "manamohanaa baD.e jhooThe" from
Seema someday now. Why "manamohana ..." ask her to sing "chaaNd phir
niklaa" now. She will fail miserably! Or, as we say back home in
IITM, "she'll cup majorly" :-) :-)
=> > I personally feel that because Suraiya was sandwiched between the
=> > careers of two of the greatest singers of all time, namely Noor Jehan
=> > and Lata, her real talents have gone largely unnoticed by the Indian
=> > Public, and of course, by RMIM.
=> Neeraj's RJGK on 'Female Singers Other Than Lata-Asha' had a brief write-
=> up on Suraiya; it also included two-plus Suraiya entries: from Afsar (SDB)
=> and Shama Parwana (H-B). Sami's Talat RJGK, notwithstanding the disparaging
=> remarks, included the wonderful Talat-Suraiya duet from Waris (AB). There
=> have been occasional threads on Suraiya songs.
Apart from which, Ashok, even a "buzurg" RMIM-er like you doesn't
remember anything about Suraiya. That's what I wanted to say. She's
been neglected by almost *everyone* (including, unfortunately, one of
her fans, namely UVR! :-( :) :)).
=> BTW, Ravindra, how come you are taling about RMIM the way one talks about
=> HMV: the big, bad, corporate monster out there making tastleless decisions
=> on matters of taste? RMIM is YOU! When you make it clear that you find it
=> easier to remember RDB, Nadeem-Shravan, and Jatin-Lalit songs, in all their
=> mutual interrelationships, than Suraiya songs, you are also showing us
=> which way your ears are pointed. [ :)) Just kidding. Actually, I like
=> hearing about new songs from people like you and Ikram who have impeccable
=> ears for old songs also. :))]
Ashok-ji, aap ke "quiver" meiN "agni-baaN" lagtaa hai sarvadaa utsuk
rahte haiN ... but I have my fireproof vest on, as I said :-) :-).
In my opinion (and I'll say that again, I, UVR, think that) there is
no comparison between RMIM and HMV. It's like comparing a regal,
full-splendoured lion with a dim-witted, low-breed jackass,
respectively. :-) :) :) One of the earliest threads I read on RMIM was
something that said "Impeach HMV" or something like that. I think HMV
is doing a great disservice to the music loving community by it's
lackadaisical attitude towards film songs. When they are not
releasing albums containing only parts of songs, they are releasing
excellent collections of songs on third-class quality tapes. It's not
even worthwhile talking about the recording quality of most of their
albums. Noiseless dubbing is next to unknown ... but this is not an
HMV bashing article, is it? Just as I don't like HMV neglecting good
music, I have reservations against the neglect of great singers like
Suraiya on the RMIM ... yes, RMIM is *me*, *you*, and all our other
RMIM brothers and sisters (except my mother and my would-be wife,
whoever she is) :-) :-). But, so what? Do you mean I can't criticize
myself, or those whom I consider *mere apne*? ... :-) :^)
=> > Speaking of Suraiya, do you know that after she fell out of favour
=> > with the Indian public, she really became very poor, and had nothing
=> > to her name except LPs and EPs of her songs ... and one day, the house
=> > was burgled and even those LPs and EPs were stolen ... ... jo kuchh
=> > zindagi meiN haasil kiyaa thaa, us ki chhoTi si nishaani bhi baaqi
=> > nahiN rahi ... I believe she never quite recovered from that shock and
=> > died a sad death :-( Can anyone confirm this story? Ashok?
=> Haven't come across anything about later life of Suraiya. I did read
=> that Rajkumari became so impoverished in old age that she had to join
=> the ranks of chorus singers for film songs.
I have heard this too. Just goes to show how true what MS
Subbulakshmi said when she was receiving her Sangeeta Kalanidhi award
from Madras Music Academy (in 1975?) was. She said something to the
effect that "we singers do not have anything to call our own, other
than our voice ... I request the listeners to understand the problems
that a singer can face when his/her voice fails due to age ... we
should not neglect old and out of form singers who are unable to
perform ..."
Or something like that.
=> > Ravindra.
=> > bhagwaan aisaa dukhad ant kisi ko na de :-( :-(
=>
=> Amen.
=>
=> Ashok
Ravindra.
Ashok
>
> In article <3ugih6$8...@duke.cs.duke.edu>
> p...@duke.cs.duke.edu (Pavan Kumar Desikan) "P" writes:
>
>
> > Suraiyya on the
> > other hand had lots of good songs, but the style was more in tandem with
> > the other singers of that era(sans Noor Jehan) and she kind of faded away
> > when a new crop of singers like Lata, Geeta began taking over. It was
> > Ghulam Mohd who gave a new life to her with MIrzaa Ghalib, which IMO is
> > one of Suraiyya's best. But unfortunately, she did not get many singing
> > opportunities later inspite of her superlative performance in Mirza
> > Ghalib.
>
Do bear in mind that Suraiya was first and foremost a leading lady, a proper
A-grade star, who has acted opposite the likes of Saigal, Dilip, Dev, and
Raj Kapoor. I have heard that Dev-Suraiya was a popular romantic pair. Perhaps
no one (least of all herself) thought of a career as a pure playback singer
for her. After all, it took more than two decades and a stroke of genius from the
Burmans before Kishore could be lauched as a fullfledged playback singer. Talat
did make the transition, but then again, he didn't have much going for him
'on the screen.' So, you cannot really talk about opportunities to sing in
her case, only opportunities as an actress who happens to be a singer also.
Sometime ago I had seen an old footage of a Filmfare Awards ceremony, where
Dil Apni Aur Preet Parai had won the music award. Suraiya presented the
title song from the film on stage. It was a poor effort.
> Pavan, I think you are giving Suraiya credit for much less than she
> deserves. Yes, she *did* sound more like the other singers of her
> time than like Noor Jehan. However, the likeness ends there. Hers
> was as new and unique a style of singing as Noor Jehan's. I
> personally feel that because Suraiya was sandwiched between the
> careers of two of the greatest singers of all time, namely Noor Jehan
> and Lata, her real talents have gone largely unnoticed by the Indian
> Public, and of course, by RMIM. My memory of song-names with respect
^^^^
> to Suraiya is quite bad, and my remembrance of film names was never
> good, so I can't give you any examples. :-(
Neeraj's RJGK on 'Female Singers Other Than Lata-Asha' had a brief write-
up on Suraiya; it also included two-plus Suraiya entries: from Afsar (SDB)
and Shama Parwana (H-B). Sami's Talat RJGK, notwithstanding the disparaging
remarks, included the wonderful Talat-Suraiya duet from Waris (AB). There
have been occasional threads on Suraiya songs.
BTW, Ravindra, how come you are taling about RMIM the way one talks about
HMV: the big, bad, corporate monstrosity out there making tastleless decisions
on matters of taste? RMIM is YOU! When you make it clear that you find it
easier to remember RDB, Nadeem-Shravan, and Jatin-Lalit songs, in all their
mutual interrelationships, than Suraiya songs, you are also showing us
which way your ears are pointed. [ :)) Just kidding. Actually, I like
hearing about new songs from people like you and Ikram who have impeccable
ears for old songs also. :))]
>
> Speaking of Suraiya, do you know that after she fell out of favour
> with the Indian public, she really became very poor, and had nothing
> to her name except LPs and EPs of her songs ... and one day, the house
> was burgled and even those LPs and EPs were stolen ... ... jo kuchh
> zindagi meiN haasil kiyaa thaa, us ki chhoTi si nishaani bhi baaqi
> nahiN rahi ... I believe she never quite recovered from that shock and
> died a sad death :-( Can anyone confirm this story? Ashok?
>
Haven't come across anything about later life of Suraiya. I did read
that Rajkumari became so impoverished in old age that she had to join
the ranks of chorus singers for film songs.
> Ravindra.
> bhagwaan aisaa dukhad ant kisi ko na de :-( :-(
>
Amen.
Ashok
Ikram Ahmed Khan
: uvr@tata_elxsi.soft.net (U.V Ravindra) wrote:
: Do bear in mind that Suraiya was first and foremost a leading lady, a proper
: A-grade star, who has acted opposite the likes of Saigal, Dilip, Dev, and
: Raj Kapoor. I have heard that Dev-Suraiya was a popular romantic pair. Perhaps
pairings becoz of some serious vibes that were developing between Dev and
Suraiya. They could not allow the golden goose to fall into th
other hands... the idiots... I have also read that the same sort of
situation existed in the case of Madhubala and Dilip tooo ( Btw, Premnath
was also supposed to be in love with her..... Yes sir that same guy who made
dialogs like Gabba Gabbanaa famous [ Nehle pe Dehla , methinks] who was
considered a dashing action hero of those times... and that he stepped aside
for Dilip but after that famous court trial for Naya Daur, he was supposed
to be so mad at Dilip that he wanted to make a movie titled "Dilip, the
Donkey"... Of course the villain in this tragedy was madubala's father
Ataullah Khan as is written in lots of magazines)
: HMV: the big, bad, corporate monstrosity out there making tastleless decisions
: on matters of taste? RMIM is YOU! When you make it clear that you find it
: easier to remember RDB, Nadeem-Shravan, and Jatin-Lalit songs, in all their
: mutual interrelationships, than Suraiya songs, you are also showing us
: which way your ears are pointed. [ :)) Just kidding. Actually, I like
: hearing about new songs from people like you and Ikram who have impeccable
: ears for old songs also. :))]
Bhai hamara naam UVRji ke naam ke saath !! Zarranawaazi ke liye shukriyaa
huzoor :) :) <--- there he goes getting a swollen head, ....
On a more serious note, it is absolutely necessary that we discuss old
songs so that the newgenerations of listeners don't overlook this vast
KHazaana of abso grreat songs that we have. But just as necessary, I
beleive , is the responsibility that such discerning listeners have to
guide the music tastes of the newwer generations. The KHazana that exists
vis a vis old songs is vast, yes, but sadly there is an end to it too.
Naushad only gave music for so many films { Sorry couldn't resist bringing
Naushad up :) :) }We have the responsiblity that ppl will go on adding to
this KHazana so that our descendants have a far wealthier past to look up
to. I think, that it is imperative for such respected rmim-ers as Sami
saab, you ,Pintuji, Abhay saab and so many many others who will put old
music above new music and might even turn a blind eye towards it. I am
*not* saying that the two can be put on the same level at all. We were
blessed by God that he gave us so many Greats and also gave us the aQal to
appreciate them. Now, we need to criticize the wrong things going on in the
modern music industry and encourage the good things that we perceive.If we
did it, do you think that such an artificial voice as KSanu's would have
been tolerated? And that too over and above that of such obviously better
singers as Udit Narayan and Amit Kumar?? Me thinks not.
Think about it, respected rmim-ers...
{and yes, this particular para was written in a sudden burst of missionary
zeal ... :) I ask forgiveness for my naivete.... All I can say is
Abhi toh main nadaan hooN
And yeh naadaani ko jaane meiN shayad thode aur saal lag ja'eN :)
Tab tak ke liye , aap jaise log hamaree GHaltiyon ko nazarandaz kareN jaise
abhi tak karte aa'eN haiN }
Later,
Ikram.
: >
: > Speaking of Suraiya, do you know that after she fell out of favour
: > with the Indian public, she really became very poor, and had nothing
: > to her name except LPs and EPs of her songs ... and one day, the house
: > was burgled and even those LPs and EPs were stolen ... ... jo kuchh
: > zindagi meiN haasil kiyaa thaa, us ki chhoTi si nishaani bhi baaqi
: > nahiN rahi ... I believe she never quite recovered from that shock and
: > died a sad death :-( Can anyone confirm this story? Ashok?
: >
: Haven't come across anything about later life of Suraiya. I did read
: that Rajkumari became so impoverished in old age that she had to join
: the ranks of chorus singers for film songs.
: > Ravindra.
: > bhagwaan aisaa dukhad ant kisi ko na de :-( :-(
: >
: Amen.
: Ashok
Samir Siddiqui
: In article <9507111853.AA05107@tata_elxsi.soft.net>
: uvr@tata_elxsi.soft.net (U.V Ravindra) writes:
: >baap ki tune to wiraasat samajh ke uThaa lee hogi, Rajesh ne, lekin
: >woh Pakistani dhun to us ke baap ki dhun nahiN thee.
: >
: >This discussion reminds me of the song from the film "O Darling! Yeh
: >Hai India" (*ing Shah Rukh Khan and ???) ...
: >
: > "beTaa baap se sawaayaa, beTa baap bech ke khaayaa"
: >
: >Anyone knows who the music director for this film is?
: It is Ranjit Barot, whose sole claim to glory is that he is the
: son of dancer Sitara Devi whose heavily made-up face once scared
: the hell out of me. It also gave me fresh ideas for our Narakasura
: mask for the following Diwali. He also used to be the drummer for an
: atrocious desi rock group called "Rock Machine".
: r
Can someone tell me whether the song, 'Jab koy baat begar jaye'
from the movie Jurm (Composed by Rajesh Roshan) is also a copy? Thanks.
<-TMW->
--
Vijay Kumar
: Can someone tell me whether the song, 'Jab koy baat begar jaye'
: from the movie Jurm (Composed by Rajesh Roshan) is also a copy? Thanks.
:
Definitely tepa maara hua hai. Some angreji gaana.
Vijay
Pavan Kumar Desikan
: In article <3ugih6$8...@duke.cs.duke.edu>
: > U.V Ravindra (uvr@tata_elxsi.soft.net) "U" wrote:
: >>:In article <3u7mlg$c...@news.tamu.edu>
: >:iak...@tamu.edu (Ikram Ahmed Khan) "I"> writes:
: I>:> but I always felt that just as Lata used to try to imitate Noor jehan in
: I>:> the beginning of her career, Asha did the same for Geeta. How about
: I>:> discussing this
: U> : Speaking of the Lata-Noorjehan
: U> : similarity, it is not just the striking similarity between the
: U> : *singing* styles of young-Lata with established-NoorJehan that one can
: U> : observe, it is also other aspects of singing. In fact, in *my*
: U> : opinion, Lata doesn't sound as much like Noorjehan as she does like
: U> : the other great gaayikaa of that period, Suraiya.
: I agree that Suraiya soungs "Lata-esque" only in Ghulam Mohammed's
: Mirza Ghalib, but that wasn't the point I was trying to make. I was
: trying to say that Lata (who entered the films *after* Suraiya did)
: has imbibed the good points of both Noor Jehan and Suraiya in her
: singing.
Lata imbibing the good points of Noor Jehan - yes. But you will have to
replace Suraiyya by all the contemporary singers of Suraiyya. IMO,
Suraiyya lacked a distinct style of her own and she sang more or less in
the same style as most other singers. There is no doubt that Suraiyya was
the best among them. But whatever Lata learned from Suraiyya must be a
very tiny portion of what she learnt from Noor Jehan or what she learnt
herself. An a separate note, which kind of relates to the original posting
of Ikram, I feel that Geeta Dutt sounded more like Suraiyya in her initial
songs which were devoid of the "masti" with which she became so very
closely associated later.
: tere binaa meraa kahiN jiyaa lage naa", from later years. What you
: are calling "overmaturity" is in fact Lata's capability at voice
: modulation, which, though not unparalleled or unique, is *very* good
: indeed! "nainoN meiN badraa chaaye" *demanded* a heavy and
: "classical" andaaz, which is what Lata gave it.
I never said Lata's voice was overmature. I only said that it was
mature. I simply adore Lata in the song Nainon mein Badraa chaaye, but I
feel that Lata ne" kuch kho liyaa hai paayke, kuch paa liyaa gawaanye
ke". I cannot both have the cake and eat it too. I liked Lata in her
initail phase, but there was always a feeling that she could improve. But
when she did improve, I felt that I liked her in the beginnig much
better. I guess this can find ints way into the book "Godel-Escher-Bach".
: good, so I can't give you any examples. :-(
: Speaking of Suraiya, do you know that after she fell out of favour
: with the Indian public, she really became very poor, and had nothing
: to her name except LPs and EPs of her songs ... and one day, the house
: was burgled and even those LPs and EPs were stolen ... ... jo kuchh
: zindagi meiN haasil kiyaa thaa, us ki chhoTi si nishaani bhi baaqi
: nahiN rahi ... I believe she never quite recovered from that shock and
: died a sad death :-( Can anyone confirm this story? Ashok?
Have no clue about this. Only know that she kept blaming her mother for
being too greedy and ruining her career.
Sivakumar Ravada
> Bhai hamara naam UVRji ke naam ke saath !! Zarranawaazi ke liye shukriyaa
> huzoor :) :) <--- there he goes getting a swollen head, ....
>
> On a more serious note, it is absolutely necessary that we discuss old
> songs so that the newgenerations of listeners don't overlook this vast
> KHazaana of abso grreat songs that we have. But just as necessary, I
> beleive , is the responsibility that such discerning listeners have to
> guide the music tastes of the newwer generations. The KHazana that exists
> vis a vis old songs is vast, yes, but sadly there is an end to it too.
> Naushad only gave music for so many films { Sorry couldn't resist bringing
> Naushad up :) :) }We have the responsiblity that ppl will go on adding to
> this KHazana so that our descendants have a far wealthier past to look up
> to. I think, that it is imperative for such respected rmim-ers as Sami
> saab, you ,Pintuji, Abhay saab and so many many others who will put old
> music above new music and might even turn a blind eye towards it. I am
Aha, aha, I have been just reading this thread, not knowing why! and
then I keep finding my name pop-up :-))) ham nahiN to hamari shoharat
hi sahi :-))) jiyo, jiyo!!
I will be back sooner than 19th Aug as I had thot. This weekend look
forward for more PRsPD!!
later
-- Pintu-'ji' :-)))
U.V. Ravindra
V> Samir Siddiqui (af...@ccn.cs.dal.ca) wrote: : Can someone tell
V> me whether the song, 'Jab koy baat begar jaye' : from the movie
V> Jurm (Composed by Rajesh Roshan) is also a copy? Thanks. :
V> Definitely tepa maara hua hai. Some angreji gaana.
V> Vijay
Yes, you're right about that, Vijay! The angreji gaana from which
this song has been tepaa maro-ed is
"If you miss the train I'm on
you will know that I have gone
you can hear the whistles blow
a hundred miles ..."
A song worth listening for it's lyrics, unlike several other angreji
gaanaas. I think the song is titled "Five hundred miles away from
home" or something (not sure about the title, at all).
Ravindra.
Rajesh Roshan plagiarises from old English songs and
country music.
Bappi Lahiri copies from Mike Jackson and Madonna.
Who is worse?
--
U.V Ravindra
rava...@gold.tc.umn.edu (Sivakumar Ravada) writes:
=> Aha, aha, I have been just reading this thread, not knowing why! and
=> then I keep finding my name pop-up :-))) ham nahiN to hamari shoharat
=> hi sahi :-))) jiyo, jiyo!!
=>
Time for me to pitch in with one of my favourite original sayings:
"Fame travels further than man ever can!"
=> I will be back sooner than 19th Aug as I had thot. This weekend look
=> forward for more PRsPD!!
Waiting desperately for your PRsPD series. Have been experiencing
severe withdrawal symptoms (raatoN ko neeNd nahiN aatee, din kaa chain
haraam ho gayaa hai, and all that sort of thing) :) :)
=>
=> later
=> -- Pintu-'ji' :-)))
=>
Ravindra'babu'.
Senthil K Kandasamy
|> uvr@tata_elxsi.soft.net (U.V Ravindra) wrote:
|> >
|> > Speaking of Suraiya, do you know that after she fell out of favour
|> > with the Indian public, she really became very poor, and had nothing
|> > to her name except LPs and EPs of her songs ... and one day, the house
|> > was burgled and even those LPs and EPs were stolen ... ... jo kuchh
|> > zindagi meiN haasil kiyaa thaa, us ki chhoTi si nishaani bhi baaqi
|> > nahiN rahi ... I believe she never quite recovered from that shock and
|> > died a sad death :-( Can anyone confirm this story? Ashok?
|> >
|>
As far as i know, Suraiya is well and alive. She gave an interview to DD about
two years back, in whick she recalled her old glory days and her romance with Dev.
Senthil
U.V Ravindra
=> : When you make it clear that you find it
=> : easier to remember RDB, NadeemShravan, and Jatin-Lalit songs, in all their
=> : mutual interrelationships, than Suraiya songs, you are also showing us
=> : which way your ears are pointed. [ :)) Just kidding. Actually, I like
=> : hearing about new songs from people like you and Ikram who have impeccable
=> : ears for old songs also. :))]
In article <3uk203$g...@news.tamu.edu>
iak...@tamu.edu (Ikram Ahmed Khan) writes:
=> Bhai hamara naam UVRji ke naam ke saath !! Zarranawaazi ke liye shukriyaa
=> huzoor :) :) <--- there he goes getting a swollen head, ....
aji, janaab, ab aap ne sharmindagi kaa sehraa hamaare sar pe baaNdh
diyaa! itni izzat aap hameiN nawaaz rahe haiN, ke hamaaraa sar aap ki
baatoN ke bojh tale jhukaa chalaa jaa rahaa hai ... :-) :-)
chaliye, at least this proves that we are on the same side, when it
comes to countring Ashok-ji's brickbats with bricks (eeNT kaa jawaab
paththhar se denaa :):)) kamar kasiye, Ikrambhai, is ear-pointing
waale accusation kaa kaD.e se kaD.aa jawaab denaa hogaa ham ko ...
bhai Ashok-ji, my ears are pointed towards the 1940-70s film music,
but strains of good music are audible even now. Also, RDB was a real
loRD, IMO. The only problem with him was he was too talented ...
there's a thin line between genius and madness, hai naa? He
frequently went overboard with his music ... I'm just putting down
assorted thoughts of mine ...
rahi baat Jatin-Lalit and others ki, to when you stay with three other
guys who want to listen to Michael Jackson and Kumar Sanu *all* the
time, you don't have much choice but to keep your irritation level
low, do you? :-( :-( Also, there *are* a few good pieces of music
audible there from time to time, which are like an oasis in a desert,
and make you sit up and take note of the fact that the future is not
really as dark as the dungeons of hell for Hindi film music.
=> On a more serious note, it is absolutely necessary that we discuss old
=> songs so that the newgenerations of listeners don't overlook this vast
=> KHazaana of abso grreat songs that we have. But just as necessary, I
=> beleive , is the responsibility that such discerning listeners have to
=> guide the music tastes of the newwer generations. The KHazana that exists
=> vis a vis old songs is vast, yes, but sadly there is an end to it
=> too.
What Ikrambhai is trying to say is that you should look in your wallet
and see what you have there. Do you always keep only $100 bills? No!
You'd also have some dimes and quarters and cents and whatnot. And
just because the value of the dime is 1/1000 of that of a $100 bill,
you don't chuck it in the trashcan, do you? No, you don't. The
KHazaana of old songs that Ikrambhai is talking about is like the
number of high-denomination dollar-bills that you keep in your wallet
... it's value is really high, but there are only so many of those
bills, a fixed number, finito. The KHazaana of good new film songs is
like the dimes and the quarters ... they're pretty low in their
face-value as compared to the high-denomination dollar bills, but
they're not worthless as many would have you believe!
So much for metaphorical and simile-filled rhetoric! :-) :-)
=> Naushad only gave music for so many films { Sorry couldn't resist bringing
=> Naushad up :) :) }We have the responsiblity that ppl will go on adding to
=> this KHazana so that our descendants have a far wealthier past to look up
=> to. I think, that it is imperative for such respected rmim-ers as Sami
=> saab, you ,Pintuji, Abhay saab and so many many others who will put old
=> music above new music and might even turn a blind eye towards it.
Thou treadst dangerous ground here, Ikram. None of these respected
RMIM-ers will put a really good new song above a third-class old song.
What they are doing is just saying that make a random selection of 100
old films songs and 100 new film songs and lo! You'll find that there
are about 95 good songs in the former group, and just about 30 to 35
good songs in the new ones. That doesn't mean, in any way, that these
30-35 good songs are to be (or are being) belittled in any way.
=> Now, we need to criticize the wrong things going on in the
=> modern music industry and encourage the good things that we
=> perceive.
Exactly!
=> If we did it, do you think that such an artificial voice as
=> KSanu's would have been tolerated? And that too over and above
=> that of such obviously better singers as Udit Narayan and Amit
=> Kumar?? Me thinks not.
Ardent KS fans (no, not the PoojaBedi-wala KS, yaar) will already be
screaming for your blood, Ikram, but like I've been on your side on
all other matters, I'm on your side here too :-) :) mil ke saamna kar
leNge ham kisi bhi mushkil kaa :^) ...
What you said couldn't be more correct. Along with the sudden drop in
the general quality of music since the late 70-s, there's also been a
sudden drop in the level of audience awareness towards genuinely good
music. That's precisely why such plastic voices like that of KS and
Alka Yagnik's rule at the top of the film music world nowadays, and
genuinely talented youngsters like Amit Kumar (I have some
reservations against Udit N. : he goes off-key too often for me to
appreciate him) aren't anywhere in the reckoning. It's sad days for
Hindi Film music as far as playback singers are concerned, and I hope
we at the RMIM could do something about it. As it happens, however,
we are a small, cozy and cloistered world in ourselves ...
=> Think about it, respected rmim-ers...
=> {and yes, this particular para was written in a sudden burst of missionary
=> zeal ... :) I ask forgiveness for my naivete.... All I can say is
=> Abhi toh main nadaan hooN
=>
=> And yeh naadaani ko jaane meiN shayad thode aur saal lag ja'eN :)
=> Tab tak ke liye , aap jaise log hamaree GHaltiyon ko nazarandaz kareN jaise
=> abhi tak karte aa'eN haiN }
I'd like to "dohrao"-fy Ikrambhai's request to the RMIM-gurus. Looks
like in our overenthusiastic endeavours to put our points forward on
the RMIM, we end up brushing some respected buzurg-log the wrong way.
If such a thing indeed happens, we should be pardoned like a pair of
overexcited children ...
=> Later,
=> Ikram.
Ravindra.
chhoTi-chhoTi GHalatiyaaN sabhi se hoti haiN, lekin
un GHalatiyoN ke liye kisi ko sooli par chaD.haanaa
kahaaN kaa insaaf hogaa?
Sivakumar Ravada
>=> Naushad up :) :) }We have the responsiblity that ppl will go on adding to
>=> this KHazana so that our descendants have a far wealthier past to look up
>=> to. I think, that it is imperative for such respected rmim-ers as Sami
>=> saab, you ,Pintuji, Abhay saab and so many many others who will put old
>=> music above new music and might even turn a blind eye towards it.
>
>Thou treadst dangerous ground here, Ikram. None of these respected
>RMIM-ers will put a really good new song above a third-class old song.
Thanks Ravindra for pointing out what Ikram might have been saying.
maiN to apnaa naam dekh kar hi khush ho gayaa thaa :-))
Ikram bhia, wait till I get back home. maiN is eenT kaa jawaab
patthar se bilkul dooNgaa. Actually I had this eeNT for a LONG time,
but didn't know why or in what general direction to throw it. NOW
Grrrrrrrrrr Ikram, watch out :-)))))))))))
If I were ever to tell what kind of new music I like, katl-e-aam ho
jaayegaa RMIM par :-))))) Well, I don't like ALL new songs, just like
I don't like ALL old songs. My main criteria is, GOOD lyrics, nice
music (which ususally means NOT disco or metallica -- Hindi songs
meant to create a mood don't fit into that category), and a nice
voice.
Even though many have dragged 'ek laD.ki ko dekhaa to' in mud, I
personally liked the song for its lyrics, and then K Sanu is no Rafi
but he can manage to make me keep listening the lyrics. I mean he is
not so bad as to overweigh the goodness of the lyrics. For a change a
fresh poem! Maybe, I am not expecting too much from the newer
generation of artists, both because the economics is becoming the
governing factor, commercialisation of films to the Nth degree (not
by NorWest banks though :) ) and lack for proper training and pure
motives. Whatever, it is easier to point fingers, BUT anyone can see
the results!!
What my eeNT is all about, is what Ikram bhai *thinks* I might do,
put EVERY old song over EVERY new song :-)))
>
>Ravindra.
> chhoTi-chhoTi GHalatiyaaN sabhi se hoti haiN, lekin
> un GHalatiyoN ke liye kisi ko sooli par chaD.haanaa
> kahaaN kaa insaaf hogaa?
>
Arey Ravindra, you at least shoud quote ghalib at such moments:
had chaahiye sazaa meN, ukoobat ke waaste
aakhir gunahgaar hooN, kaafir naheeN hooN maiN
-- Pintu Diwana
(ready with all bricks and bats :-)))))
Pavan Kumar Desikan
: Do bear in mind that Suraiya was first and foremost a leading lady, a proper
: A-grade star, who has acted opposite the likes of Saigal, Dilip, Dev, and
: Raj Kapoor. I have heard that Dev-Suraiya was a popular romantic pair. Perhaps
: no one (least of all herself) thought of a career as a pure playback singer
: for her. After all, it took more than two decades and a stroke of genius from the
: Burmans before Kishore could be lauched as a fullfledged playback singer. Talat
: did make the transition, but then again, he didn't have much going for him
: 'on the screen.' So, you cannot really talk about opportunities to sing in
: her case, only opportunities as an actress who happens to be a singer also.
A point very well made, Ashok. I somehow think of Suraiyya only as a
singer and not as an actress and so this point completely slipped out of
my mind. I have watched only one movie starring Suraiyya - Dastan(which I
believe is her only movie with Raj Kapoor - I believe that RK wanted
Suraiyya to star in the movie Aag, but her mother did not want her already
established actress to be in a movie about to be made by a young
newcomer. RK could not afford to pay the Suraiyya for the movie.) and was
not very impressed by her acting capabilities. However, I have heard
Suraiyya sing quite a bit and I do like her as a singer(not caring what
Sami thinks of her singing talents;-)) To help Ravindra out I shall
mention a few songs of Suraiyya(I am not mentioning any of ehr songs from
either MG or Shama)
Tum mujhko bhool jaao, tum mujhko bhool jao
ab hum na mil sakenge, ab hum na mil sakenge
O door jaanewaale(2) waada na bhool jaana(2)
raatein hui andheri(2) too chaand bake aanaa(2)
Even in Anmol GhaDi, where she was singing in the the presence of the
mallika-e-tarannum, she did make her presence felt in the song
Sochaa tha kyaa, kyaa ho gayaa, kya ho gaya
apna jisey samjhey the hum, afsos woh apnaa na tha
I personally love Suraiyya in the duets
Too mera chand my teri chaandnin and
Raahi Matwaale, too CheD ik baar man ka sitaar
and the this Sajjad Hussain song is IMO one of Suraiyya's best
Ye kaisee ajab daastaan ho gayii hi
chupaate chupaate bayaan ho gayii hi
While on this topic of acting ruining one's career, I had heard that
Mukesh's singing career was on the decline because he started acting. He
acted in the movie Anurag(??) and the MDs felt that he was more interested
in acting than in singing, and so did not approach him with the same
interest that they had shown earlier. Not only did his acting career fail
miserably but also his singing career was at its low. It was the SJ song -
"Ye meraa diwaanapan hai, ya mohabbat ka suroor", which once again brought
back his name on the rolls of playback singers. Anyone with more info on
this?
Pavan
Vijay Kumar
: : Do bear in mind that Suraiya was first and foremost a leading lady, a proper
: : A-grade star, who has acted opposite the likes of Saigal, Dilip, Dev, and
: : Raj Kapoor. I have heard that Dev-Suraiya was a popular romantic pair.
Did Suraiya ever feature opposite Saigal? When? Any information
would be greatly appreciated.
Vijay
PS: Other than that, thread going jollyjolly. Keep up the mutual backslapping,
this "Ajee kahaan aap, kahaan hum!", this "arre kya kehne hain aapke",
the "kyon sharminda karte hain saheb", etc, etc. Healthy give and take,
each working for each.
If I may make a little suggestion though, let us try to avoid the
words 'saab', 'sahab', etc. All this business of Dilip Saab, Rafi Sahab,
Sami Sahab, Dev Saab, Mehmood Saab, Shakti Kapoor Saab, Gulshan Grover Saab,
and so on and so forth is getting a bit out of hand. Similarly with
Pintu Mahashaya, Baban Babu, Ruldu Ji, and other such names. Some
innate incongruity that I can't quite put my finger on at the moment.
BTW, it is to Kishore Kumar's credit that you can't go around calling
him Kishoresaab (even though he _was_ the proud owner of a pot belly) --
not if you take yourself seriously, that is.
Pavan Kumar Desikan
: chance to be properly appreciated by the masses. It's a sad story,
: yes, that a person of such talent can go unrecognised. I remember
: some sloka that I read in my 10th class Sanskrit text (Pintu-ji,
: please complete it for me, for I forget the words):
: kusumastabakasyeva dve vRttee maneeShiNa:,
: moordhni vaa tishThante, ksheeyante vaa <something>
: meaning basically that just like flower-petals, great people are of
: two kinds: either they sit at the top (moordhni), or they just perish
: in the sand...
just completing the couplet. It must read
: kusumastabakasyeva dve vRttee maneeShiNa:,
: moordhni vaa sarvalokeshu, ksheeyante vana eva va
: IM*H*O, that's what happened to Suraiya.
Rizwan Syed
> Can someone tell me whether the song, 'Jab koy baat begar jaye'
>from the movie Jurm (Composed by Rajesh Roshan) is also a copy? Thanks.
>
> <-TMW->
It is a copy of and oooolllllldd American? folk song. The song is called
500 miles. It goes something like (to the beat of Jab koi baat bigharh):
Lord I'm one... lord I'm two...
Lord I'm three... lord I'm four...
Lord I'm five hundered miles away from home....
I believe this folksong was most recently done by the Hooters around 10
years ago. Been done by numerous artists over the years.
A kind of related question. Anyone know if the movies Darr and 100 days
were copied from western movies? No disrespect towards the great minds of
Bollywood, but I find it hard to believe that they could've come up with
those kind of westernized stories all by themselves... *shrug*
Lastly, (hey english IS a living language *grin*) I'm looking for the pstats
to this song, I posted it a couple of days ago, I'll try to post more lines
as it might help someone remember:
Bus meri jaan bus, maan le meri baat Kishore
aaj teri door, hay hamare haath....
Bus meri jaan bus, maan le meri baat Lata
dekh ayse naan, chal hamare saath..
Deewana, mein bhi hoon aisa, Kishore
Sung tera naan chorhoon, chahe jiya jae
can't remember the rest... *sigh*
Rizwan
U.V Ravindra
vi...@news.eecs.nwu.edu (Vijay Kumar) writes:
=> PS: Other than that, thread going jollyjolly. Keep up the mutual
=> backslapping, this "Ajee kahaan aap, kahaan hum!", this "arre kya
=> kehne hain aapke", the "kyon sharminda karte hain saheb", etc, etc.
=> Healthy give and take, each working for each.
Nice Wodehouse-ian comment, Vijay, but I'd really like to add here
that it's for the pure, unadulterated fun of the Lakhnawee "pehle aap,
pehle aap"-like statements that we (at least *I*, UVR) make these
comments on RMIM. And, judging from what you say, I seem to be having
not very meagre success, eh?
=> If I may make a little suggestion though, let us try to avoid the
=> words 'saab', 'sahab', etc. All this business of Dilip Saab, Rafi Sahab,
=> Sami Sahab, Dev Saab, Mehmood Saab, Shakti Kapoor Saab, Gulshan Grover Saab,
=> and so on and so forth is getting a bit out of hand. Similarly with
=> Pintu Mahashaya, Baban Babu, Ruldu Ji, and other such names. Some
=> innate incongruity that I can't quite put my finger on at the
=> moment.
I can understand your discomfiture, Vijay. Except in the case of Rafi
Saheb, (yes, yes, shahenshah-e-aawaaz-o-andaaz-e-mauseeqee janaab
Mohammed Rafi Saheb), and respectable RMIM-ers like Pintu-ji Diwana,
Samibhai, etc., I'll agree to drop the suffixes in every name.
While with Rafi Saheb, it's more of a matter of sentiment with me, the
others are "all, all honourable men!" ;-) ;-) :) :)
=> BTW, it is to Kishore Kumar's credit that you can't go around calling
=> him Kishoresaab (even though he _was_ the proud owner of a pot belly) --
=> not if you take yourself seriously, that is.
No, not if you take yourself seriously. You can, on the other hand,
go around calling him Kishore-da, as every man in the film industry
and his wife call him? The film industry man's wife, not
Kishore-da's. :-) :-)
And it is to *your* credit that one can't go around calling you
anything but "My dear Vijay!" with a faintly incredulous tone of
voice, such as was evident in the voice of Sherlock Homles when he
used to say "My dear Watson!"
Not if one takes oneself seriously, that is! ;-)
Ravindra.
Hey, I'm just kidding, of course ;^)
Rajan P. Parrikar
>PS: Other than that, thread going jollyjolly. Keep up the mutual backslapping,
>this "Ajee kahaan aap, kahaan hum!", this "arre kya kehne hain aapke",
>the "kyon sharminda karte hain saheb", etc, etc. Healthy give and take,
>each working for each.
You mean you noticed? Despite all that discreetness?
> BTW, it is to Kishore Kumar's credit that you can't go around calling
>him Kishoresaab (even though he _was_ the proud owner of a pot belly) --
>not if you take yourself seriously, that is.
Is Papa allowed a few boasts too? Well, when I met him he was trim
and prim. None of the pot-belly that you talk about. He has had his
fair share of waxing and waning. He was v v fond of puri-bhaji btw
and would gorge on the stuff.
r
"man, you are a fundoo guy"
"no man, YOU are the boss"
"woh to hai, but YOU are the IIT cat dude"
"woh to hai, but YOU write great posts"
"woh to hai, but YOUR humour is great"
"woh to hai, but hum kahaaN aur tum kahaaN yaar!"
"woh to hai, but right now my pussy has an itch"
"what a coincidence, mine is restless too!"
"here, you scratch mine and I'll scratch yours'"
<after exchanging their furry four-legged pets, the dudes settle down
to more engaging conversation>
- Observations at the convention of the "RMIM Rich and Famous"
U.V Ravindra
p...@duke.cs.duke.edu (Pavan Kumar Desikan) writes:
=> I somehow think of Suraiyya only as a
=> singer and not as an actress and so this point completely slipped out of
=> my mind. I have watched only one movie starring Suraiyya - Dastan(which I
=> believe is her only movie with Raj Kapoor - I believe that RK wanted
=> Suraiyya to star in the movie Aag, but her mother did not want her already
=> established actress to be in a movie about to be made by a young
=> newcomer. RK could not afford to pay the Suraiyya for the movie.) and was
=> not very impressed by her acting capabilities. However, I have heard
=> Suraiyya sing quite a bit and I do like her as a singer(not caring what
=> Sami thinks of her singing talents;-)) To help Ravindra out I shall
=> mention a few songs of Suraiyya(I am not mentioning any of ehr songs from
=> either MG or Shama)
=>
=> Tum mujhko bhool jaao, tum mujhko bhool jao
=> ab hum na mil sakenge, ab hum na mil sakenge
=>
=> O door jaanewaale(2) waada na bhool jaana(2)
=> raatein hui andheri(2) too chaand bake aanaa(2)
=>
=> Even in Anmol GhaDi, where she was singing in the the presence of the
=> mallika-e-tarannum, she did make her presence felt in the song
=>
=> Sochaa tha kyaa, kyaa ho gayaa, kya ho gaya
=> apna jisey samjhey the hum, afsos woh apnaa na tha
=>
=> I personally love Suraiyya in the duets
=> Too mera chand my teri chaandnin and
=>
=> Raahi Matwaale, too CheD ik baar man ka sitaar
=>
=> and the this Sajjad Hussain song is IMO one of Suraiyya's best
=>
=> Ye kaisee ajab daastaan ho gayii hi
=> chupaate chupaate bayaan ho gayii hi
Pavan, first decide whose side you are on: on your own side,
saying Suraiya wasn't *that* good, or on mine, saying Suraiya was d*mn
underrated. :-) :-)
All the points you have made (and thanks for the songs, you really
brought back some nice memories) conclusively support the fact that
Suraiya was grossly underrated as a singer. My point all along has
been that her voice quality was much better than the public ever gave
her credit for. Take, as examples, the songs (that you have mentioned
above) "O door jaane waale" and "yeh kaisee ajab daastaaN ho gayi
hai". They have that sterling quality in them! And "sochaa thaa
kyaa, kyaa ho gaya" is a veritable gem! Any singer who could stand on
her own in the overwhelming presence of Malikaa-e-Tarannum Noorjehan,
IMO, is worth more than the kind of credit Suraiya got.
Ravindra.
I *appreciate* Suraiya.
I *love* Rafi.
=> While on this topic of acting ruining one's career, I had heard that
=> Mukesh's singing career was on the decline because he started acting. He
=> acted in the movie Anurag(??) and the MDs felt that he was more interested
=> in acting than in singing, and so did not approach him with the same
=> interest that they had shown earlier. Not only did his acting career fail
=> miserably but also his singing career was at its low. It was the SJ song -
=> "Ye meraa diwaanapan hai, ya mohabbat ka suroor", which once again brought
=> back his name on the rolls of playback singers. Anyone with more info on
=> this?
=>
=>
=> Pavan
=>
=> --
=> Pavan Kumar Desikan
=> Department of Computer Science, Duke University, Durham, NC 27708-0129
=> Internet: p...@cs.duke.edu
=> HTTP : http://www.cs.duke.edu/~pkd
Pavan Kumar Desikan
: In article <3ult32$m...@duke.cs.duke.edu>
: => I somehow think of Suraiyya only as a
: => and the this Sajjad Hussain song is IMO one of Suraiyya's best
: =>
: => Ye kaisee ajab daastaan ho gayii hi
: => chupaate chupaate bayaan ho gayii hi
: Pavan, first decide whose side you are on: on your own side,
: saying Suraiya wasn't *that* good, or on mine, saying Suraiya was d*mn
: underrated. :-) :-)
I always have said that Suraiyya was a good singer. In one of my earlier
posts I also mentioned that she was among the best in playback singing at her
time, only next to Noor Jehan. What I did not agree was that Lata
developed her singing style from Suraiyya. Suraiyya is a good singer, Lata
was a great singer too, but their singing styles were quite different.
pavan
--
Pavan Kumar Desikan
Department of Computer Science, Duke University, Durham, NC 27708-0129
Vijay Kumar
: Nice Wodehouse-ian comment, Vijay, but I'd really like to add here
: that it's for the pure, unadulterated fun of the Lakhnawee "pehle aap,
: pehle aap"-like statements that we (at least *I*, UVR) make these
: comments on RMIM. And, judging from what you say, I seem to be having
: not very meagre success, eh?
Aah, then you are bitten by the Lakhnawee bug-saab? Now how am I
to suspect that? There are bookies in London, my dear fellow, offering
a hundred to eight on your having been born somewhere around Aurangabad
or south of it. For a pebble tossed from that sort of range, the chances
of hitting Lucknow are feeble indeed. Might land closer to Mainpuri or
Etawah, for all you know. The fun-kaari of this (pure, unadulterated) fun is
dashed funny business.
: I can understand your discomfiture, Vijay. Except in the case of Rafi
: Saheb, (yes, yes, shahenshah-e-aawaaz-o-andaaz-e-mauseeqee janaab
: Mohammed Rafi Saheb), and respectable RMIM-ers like Pintu-ji Diwana,
Oh, ah, er.., well. I have nothing personal against Rafi, you know.
Nice chubby-looking sort of chappie, and all that. No doubt gave alms to
the poor and candies to kids. But don't you think all this shahenshah-e-
mauseeqee business is stretching things a bit? Old chap, may his boots
hang in peace, he would have been the first to quickly buy you a beer and
hustle you to the table in the corner. Prette regular sort of chap he
looked, and all this shahenshah business would no doubt have embarrassed him.
Say, if you like, that you were friends. Say that you were related by marriage.
Who could object? But as far as I know, the word "mauseeqee" is not derived
from "mausi ka ghar", and old Rafi, a capital bloke in many ways that
he was, is not the shahenshah of it any more than Mahendra Kapoor is
its Mukhyamantri.
: Samibhai, etc., I'll agree to drop the suffixes in every name.
: While with Rafi Saheb, it's more of a matter of sentiment with me, the
: others are "all, all honourable men!" ;-) ;-) :) :)
Oh, he also. Really, I wouldn't take that away from him.
: And it is to *your* credit that one can't go around calling you
: anything but "My dear Vijay!" with a faintly incredulous tone of
: voice, such as was evident in the voice of Sherlock Homles when he
: used to say "My dear Watson!"
Ah, evidently this Sherlock "Homles" is another one of your buddies.
Shahenshah-e-jasoosee, eh? The faint incredulosity of his voice
it has not been my good fortune to hear. No doubt the Hom-les makes
a homely imitation, replete with such reliable and trustworthy
Holmsisms as "My dear Watson" and "Sher kabhi apne Homes ko Lock naheen
karte"! The latter taqiya-qalaam finds much favour among the jasooses
of Aurangabad, I am told.
: Not if one takes oneself seriously, that is! ;-)
One can, if one tries, you know.
: Hey, I'm just kidding, of course ;^)
Good. I am merely infanting myself. Make a poor imitation, I am
told. But what ho.
Vijay
Ikram Ahmed Khan
: vi...@news.eecs.nwu.edu (Vijay Kumar) writes:
: >PS: Other than that, thread going jollyjolly. Keep up the mutual backslapping,
: >this "Ajee kahaan aap, kahaan hum!", this "arre kya kehne hain aapke",
: >the "kyon sharminda karte hain saheb", etc, etc. Healthy give and take,
: >each working for each.
: You mean you noticed? Despite all that discreetness?
Point noted,sirs. Since I started all this "backslapping" business, my
apologies for this. I will endeavor to stick to the serious business of
good posts on music alone and try to stick such "backslapping" comments to
private e-mails.
: > BTW, it is to Kishore Kumar's credit that you can't go around calling
: >him Kishoresaab (even though he _was_ the proud owner of a pot belly) --
: >not if you take yourself seriously, that is.
: Is Papa allowed a few boasts too? Well, when I met him he was trim
: and prim. None of the pot-belly that you talk about. He has had his
: fair share of waxing and waning. He was v v fond of puri-bhaji btw
: and would gorge on the stuff.
: r
You are lucky,sir, to have met him. May we have an account of the meeting
please?
: "man, you are a fundoo guy"
: "no man, YOU are the boss"
: "woh to hai, but YOU are the IIT cat dude"
: "woh to hai, but YOU write great posts"
: "woh to hai, but YOUR humour is great"
: "woh to hai, but hum kahaaN aur tum kahaaN yaar!"
: "woh to hai, but right now my pussy has an itch"
: "what a coincidence, mine is restless too!"
: "here, you scratch mine and I'll scratch yours'"
: <after exchanging their furry four-legged pets, the dudes settle down
: to more engaging conversation>
: - Observations at the convention of the "RMIM Rich and Famous"
No comments, except that no pets are allowed in my apartments.
Later,
Ikram.
Ashok
>
> Did Suraiya ever feature opposite Saigal? When? Any information
> would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Vijay
Parwaana ('47) has songs by Saigal and Suraiya; good presumption that
they were the lead pair. :)) Judging from the year, must be one of the
last films of KLS, if not *the* last. Musically, Parwaana is one of KLS's
best. MD was Khurshid Anwar and lyrics were by DN Madhok. The songs I
know from the film are:
Saigal
------
1. TooT gaye sab sapane mere | x2
ye do naina saawan bhado.n, barse saanjh savere
2. jeene ka Dhang sikaaye jaa
kaaNTo.n ke nok (?) par khaDaa muskuraaye jaa
(A Saigal song with 'shabnam' in it in the prelude!)
3. kahi.n ulajh na jaanaa, dekho ji, kahi.n ulajh na jaanaa
4. mahabbat me.n kabhi aisi bhi haalat paayi jaati hai
tabeeyat aur ghabaraayi jaati hai, jab behalaayi jaati hai
(The song begins with lot of laughter from a bevy of pulchritude :))
5. baalam tose sabar paDe
(Brief song, sung to the accompaniment of harmonium only.)
Suraiya
-------
6. paapi papihaa re
pi pi na bol, bairi pi pi na bol
nanhi si jaan meri sun ke naa jaaye Dol
7. aajaa baalamaa, andheri Dar laage
8. jab tumhi nahi.n apne, duniya hi begaanee hai
ulfat jise kehte hai.n, ek jhooTi kahaanee hai
9. mere munDere na bol
jaa kaagaa, kaagaa jaa
Would be interesting if there were to be a Saigal-Suraiya duet in the film!
I have a question to RMIMers: Is Khurshid Anwar a woman or it's just
that Khurshid is an androgynous name?
Ashok
>
> PS: Other than that, thread going jollyjolly. Keep up the mutual backslapping,
> this "Ajee kahaan aap, kahaan hum!", this "arre kya kehne hain aapke",
> the "kyon sharminda karte hain saheb", etc, etc. Healthy give and take,
> each working for each.
>
PS: The original posting showed up on my newsreader days after the whole thread
its postscript spawned!
Surjit Singh
A Brief Life Story
Died on October 30, 1984 at Lahore, age 70.
He started his career as the Producer-in-charge of
the music division of the All India Radio. His first film was
the Panjabi film "Kudmai" released in 1941. Actors in this film
were Jagdish Sethi, Waasti, Jeewan, Radharani, Ram Avatar etc.
His first Hindi film was "Ishara" (1943), lyrics by D. N.
Madhok. Popular songs from this movie are
Panghat pe muraliya baje - Surayya
Shabnam kyon neer bahaye - Gauhar Sultana
Dil deke dagha nahin dena - Vatsala Kumathekar
Some of his other Hindi films are
Parakh - 1944 (with Saraswati Devi)
Yateem - 1945 (with K. Dutta)
Aaj aur kal - 1947
Pagdandi - 1947
Parwaana - 1947, which was the last movie in which
K. L. Saigal acted, as a married man who
falls in love with Surayya, the other woman.
Baby Khursheed, later known as Shyama had a
small role as sister. The movie is available
from Atlantic Video, Dallas. The info given by
Ashok (ADhar...@WorldBank.org) is correct,
except that one song has been cut from
the movie: it is "Sayyan ne ungali marori re"
by Rajkumari.
Singaar - 1949. He got a "Best Music Director" award, my
sources are silent on from whom. Four songs can
still be heard:
Dil aane ke dhang nirale hain - Surinder Kaur
Chanda re mein teri gawahi - Surinder Kaur
Naya nainon mein rang - Surayya
Wo din kidhar gaye - Surayya
Nishaana - 1950 had songs by Geeta Roy (Dutt) and Shamshad
Neelampari - 1952 had the popular
Jab tak chamken chand sitare - Geeta and G. M. Durrani
Raat chandani kare ishare - Geeta
After partition, he went to Pakistan like many other good people
we know. Some of his pakistani movies are
Ghungat, Chingari, Koyal, Shauhar, Heer Ranjha,
and, Intezar, which had the popular Noor Jahan numbers
Jis din se piya dil le gaye (Qateel Shifai)
Ghazab kiya tere wade pe (Daag Dehalawi ?)
He got the awards called the "Hyderali Award" and the
"Pride of Performance Award" from the Pakistani government in
1979.
That should be enough for today.
Most of the info comes from
1. The Encyclopaedia, volumes 1 and 2, compiled by Mr. Har Mandir Singh
"Hamraaz", published by Mrs. Satinder Kaur, his wife,
2. Listener's Bulletin, a monthly, edited by Hamraaz Saahib and
published by the Secretary, the Flying Listener's Club, Kanpur,
Surjit Singh, a movie fan period.
du...@ttacs.ttu.edu
Vish Krishnan
: vi...@news.eecs.nwu.edu (Vijay Kumar) wrote:
: >
: > Did Suraiya ever feature opposite Saigal? When? Any information
: > would be greatly appreciated.
: >
: > Vijay
: Parwaana ('47) has songs by Saigal and Suraiya; good presumption that
: they were the lead pair. :)) Judging from the year, must be one of the
: last films of KLS, if not *the* last. Musically, Parwaana is one of KLS's
: best. MD was Khurshid Anwar and lyrics were by DN Madhok.
Yes, I think it is a reasonably safe assumption to make when Suraiyya sings
for a movie. Although her first couple of movies (SHAARDA, KAANOON) had
her sing playback for stars like Mehtaab, all that changed very quickly.
Saigal and Suraiyya made a couple more movies, I believe. TADBEER and
OMAR KHAIYYAAM may well have starred the two together. Music was by Lal
Mohammed (whatever happened to him?).
vish