I don’t necessarily need the words, but could someone post the gist of the
matter in this song?
On a separate thread, and maybe not quite so, I got to thinking again on the
greater importance of music over words and vice versa. I am constantly at a
debate with myself and can never convince myself one way or the other. But
listening to this devotional piece, constructed and rendered in a manner so
honest, so touching, so heart-felt, that it can easily transport your being
to something extraordinary, capture your senses and totally overcome
you….gets me going again with music on the winning team.
Can words do that to you?
And, then, another thought comes to mind. Isn’t this the reason why Islam
considers music as one of the “nashas” and condemns it? Listening to Sufi
music does the same, it conquers your heart and mind and your spirit, takes
you away, rendering you helpless…..
-Vandana
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What a sublime song. And so nicely put into words the feel
of it. Thanks Vandana for reminding it this lovely spring
morning.
> I don't necessarily need the words, but could someone post
the gist of the
> matter in this song?
>
Alas. I would have obliged if your request was other way
round. It was written by Marathi saint poet Dnyaneshwar and
many scholars over centuries have tried to interpret his
work. So I am not even attempting to go that way. Also
translating it word by word is a sure fire way of destroying
it completely. So I don't want the blame for that either.
> On a separate thread, and maybe not quite so, I got to
thinking again on the
> greater importance of music over words and vice versa. I
am constantly at a
> debate with myself and can never convince myself one way
or the other. But
> listening to this devotional piece, constructed and
rendered in a manner so
> honest, so touching, so heart-felt, that it can easily
transport your being
> to something extraordinary, capture your senses and
totally overcome
> you..gets me going again with music on the winning team.
>
> Can words do that to you?
>
In this case. Yes I think so. I know that just the singing
and the tune of the song has stirred your spirits without
even understanding the words and makes you think that music
is superior to words. But did it occur to you that the
original power of words might have pushed the MD (Hridaynath
Mangeshkar) to his height of creativity and made the singer
(Lata) to put her heart and soul into singing it? I firmly
believe that both of them wouldn't have been so much
inspired if the original words meant something like 'I love
you and you love me.' And I also feel that if an artist is
a believer and working on something that is kind of
religious, it usually brings out something from deep down
in his/her heart, adding another dimension to the final
output.
Anant
> And, then, another thought comes to mind. Isn't this the
reason why Islam
> considers music as one of the "nashas" and condemns it?
Listening to Sufi
> music does the same, it conquers your heart and mind and
your spirit, takes
> you away, rendering you helpless...
Lata had completed 25 years as a 'commercial' singer in 1967,
IIRC. She was nearing 40. She wanted to sing songs which will
spur her to introspection, and asked Hridaynath to compose
songs bearing this in mind. This request by Lata resulted in her
Dnyaneshwar songs, Meera Bhajans, and Ghalib ghazals with
Hridaynath. Marathi writer Go Ni Dandekar helped LM and HM
select the songs. GoNiDa and the Mangeshkars had great mutual
regard, and Asha Bhosale related in one concert how GoNiDa
asked Hridaynath to compose some Dnyaneshwar songs for Asha
as well. HM duly obliged with 'Pandurang kaanti' and 'Din taisi
rajani'. IMO, the latter song is Dnyaneshwar's greatest ViraaNi.
ViraaNi is an apbhransh of Virahini. Nobody, not even Tukaram,
has written better viraaNis in Marathi than Dnyaneshwar. ViraaNi
or virahini expresses poet's acute longing for God and how s/he is
suffering from viraha. 'din taisi rajani' is arguably Asha's greatest
song. Does it use Karnatak raag Sihendra-madhyam ? Some
people get tricked into wondering whether it uses deepchandi.
But it is set to keharwa taal.
>
>And I also feel that if an artist is
> a believer and working on something that is kind of
> religious, it usually brings out something from deep down
> in his/her heart, adding another dimension to the final
> output.
>
Absolutely. That is why HM went back all the way to
Dnyaneshwar and Meera, instead of asking Anand Bakshi
to help him with lyrics. Dnyaneshwar and Meerabai, in their
turn, had gone back ALL the way to Bhagwan Krishna (and/or
Viththal). Indian music is inseparable from and is a glory
of Hindu religion.
- nani
>
> On a separate thread, and maybe not quite so, I got to thinking again
> on the greater importance of music over words and vice versa. ...
> ...gets me going again with music on the winning team.
You are damn right there. In (sung) SONGS, music comes out tops.
(MDs do get attracted by yet-not-musically-composed written-songs,
I concede.) And lyrics do play an (almost wholly) orthogonal role.
In fact, the very fact that Dnyaneshwar's songs like 'Mogra Phulala',
which nobody understands meaning of, are popular proves that
they are popular because of the music. It is almost tautologous. The
meaning (of the song, not of my sentence) is unknown. Yet it
inspires a mellow introspection in the listener. BTW, the word
'nobody' has been used here rhetorically, and not seriously as an
intensifier. Having objected to Anant's adjective 'firmly' over
another post, I hasten to make that clear.
There is nothing quite like music in the entire universe.
But I am a better reader (I read my own posts before posting them)
than a listener (never heard a song in my life).
So, I must tell you that ...
>
> Can words do that to you?
>
Yes, they can and they do. Dnyaneshwar does all THAT to you.
So does Tukaram. And Shakespeare. And Dickens. And ...
>
> And, then, another thought comes to mind. Isn't this the reason why
> Islam considers music as one of the "nashas" and condemns it?
>
Isn't WHAT the reason why Islam considers ..., please? Music IS nasha
and so Islam, quite correctly, calls it nasha. It is tautologous. As
Chesterton pointed out re. 'successful' millionaires, all that a millionaire
is successful at is being a millionaire, much as a pig is successful at
being a pig.
I will tell you the possible reason why the barbaric Islam bans music.
Some other day...
btw, if rmim doesn't help you out with meaning of 'mogara phulala',
try cross-posting your request on SCI.Marathi and hope and pray.
- nani
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/mailsong/index.cgi/3ae5126bca750000
There is a Lata version of the song and another singer's version of the same
on the site. Both me and him called the other singer's singing "wonderful".
I just wanted to know if you are referring to Lata's version or the other
one.
A
PS Which Vandana are you? Venkatesan or Vidwans or neither
(I C Sharma in your email ID but last names might change after tieing the
knot...)
...snipped...
>The “Mogra
>Phulala” singing is absolutely divine; it is true music for the soul. And,
I
>don’t even understand one word of what’s being sung.
Music is food for the soul. Sorry for repeating the oft-said words.
Recently, an American colleague of my wife's asked her if she knew anyone who
could write some Sanskrit bhajan (from a tape this lady had) words in the
English script. My wife told her that she herself could do it but would not be
able to translate the Sanskrit words into English as she has not used Sanskrit
for a long time. The colleague replied that she did not need to have the words
translated, just written down in English, becuase all she wanted to do was
sing along (or speak along) with the bhajan - becuase God is almighty and does
not need to be made to understand what is being said.
Vandana just said the same thing, in her own words.
For a moment, I felt I
>was losing out on getting one step yet closer to heaven….but the next
moment,
>I felt that with such a beautiful voice, sweet melody, and satisfying harmony
>my pleasure was indeed complete!
Happy listenings.
Satish Kalra
mogaraa phulalaa, mogaraa phulalaa
phule vechitaa baharuu kaLiyaasii aalaa
mogaraa phulalaa, mogaraa phulalaa
The jasmine is in bloom
As I picked the flowers, the buds blossomed
The jasmine is in bloom
ivalese ropa laaviyale dwaarii
tayaachaa velu gelaa gaganaaverii
mogaraa...
A small sapling had I planted at my doorstep
The vine now climbs to the skies
manaachii gu.nphii gu.nphiiyalaa shelaa
baap rakhumaadeviivare viThThale arpilaa
mogaraa...
The robe I have woven on the loom of my mind
I offer it at the feet of my lord Vitthal
["rakhumaa deviivare" literally means "the lord of Rakhumaa devi".]
For what its worth!
Warm regards,
Abhay
<vandana...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9csddm$2ng$1...@news.netmar.com...
>
> I have to listen to anything labeled as "wonderful singing." The "Mogra
> Phulala" singing is absolutely divine; it is true music for the soul.
And, I
> don't even understand one word of what's being sung. For a moment, I felt
I
> was losing out on getting one step yet closer to heaven..but the next
moment,
> I felt that with such a beautiful voice, sweet melody, and satisfying
harmony
> my pleasure was indeed complete!
>
> I don't necessarily need the words, but could someone post the gist of the
> matter in this song?
>
> On a separate thread, and maybe not quite so, I got to thinking again on
the
> greater importance of music over words and vice versa. I am constantly at
a
> debate with myself and can never convince myself one way or the other.
But
> listening to this devotional piece, constructed and rendered in a manner
so
> honest, so touching, so heart-felt, that it can easily transport your
being
> to something extraordinary, capture your senses and totally overcome
> you..gets me going again with music on the winning team.
>
> Can words do that to you?
>
> And, then, another thought comes to mind. Isn't this the reason why Islam
> considers music as one of the "nashas" and condemns it? Listening to
Sufi
> music does the same, it conquers your heart and mind and your spirit,
takes
> you away, rendering you helpless...
>
> -Vandana
>
>
>
>
> ----- Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the
Though 'mogaraa' *is* a simple song on the face of it, I for one don't know
what Dnyaneshwar is hinting at. Superficially, the mood is one of gratitude
and fulfilment. He plants a seedling... it grows into a mighty creeper
reaching
into the skies. But is this a virahini despite this positive tone ? Is D
bemoaning
that he is moving 'skywards' and yet is not *there* (one with God).
Shantabai Shelke has written how you can use simile, point, counter-point,
exaggeration, understatement, raising a reader's expectation and then
meeting or not meeting it and on and on to put across your view.
What is Dnyaneshwar up to here ?
I may also remark that though D is a most complex poet for the most part,
he assumes a different persona altogether when he writes virahini. His
virahini is very simple, very direct, lovingly written and very moving.
We can understand it at a remove of 700 years.
Go Ni Dandekar has given some examples in his immortal book :
'SmaraN-gaathaa'. Here is an example :
jiiviichiiyaa jiivaa, prem-bhaavaachiiyaa bhaavaa
tuj vaachunii keshavaa, aNu naavaDe vo
( (o thou) life of my inner life - o the feeling underpinning affection
without thou, o Lord Keshav - I can't enjoy ANYthing )
'khoL bunthii gheunii - khuNaachii paalavii' from 'Pandurang Kanti' is
not easy to understand, though. In Asha Bhosale's other virahini,
D reverts to form. Though Hridaynath starts that song with the words
'din taisi rajani', D's first line was -
paDiile duur deshi - maj aaThave maanasii
nako nako haa viyog - kasht hotaatii jiivaasii
( flung wide apart (from God, onto Earth for this brief existence)
I keep pining -
this separation chokes me
I suffer torments)
By way of contrast, Tukaram, ordinarily the most charmingly simple,
and the greatest of all Marathi poets, engages in no imagery in the
following lines : tukaa mhaNe maazaa - jiiv zaalaa pisaa .
(my inner self is going mad without God, says Tuka(ram) ).
No literary effect here. Just brutal longing for God that leaves
you gasping in wake of his passion.
- nani
Thanks to Abhay P. for providing the translation.
I will have to say that knowing what was being sung
made the joy of listening to Mogara Phulala take the
path of ecstasy. Especially, for a person like me who
gives a lot of importance to words. Words spoken,
words sung, expression, ideas, vocabulary, all of it.
Poet Dnyaneshwar seems to have it all. He also
appears intimidating :)
Anant R., I totally agree with you when you say the
power of the words might have led to the composition
of such beautiful music. Yes, the lyrics have to be
the inspiration behind it.
Nani W., it was quite something to read your view
points! Thanks very much for the insightful
information regarding many issues. I enjoyed the
reading. May I ask why don't you listen to songs
anymore? Or is that too wide a spectrum to cover?
Satish K sahab, wo kissa jo aapne bayan kiya usmein
maine ek payam paaya. Main religious bikul bhi nahi
hoon lekin aksar khyaal aata hai ke apne mezhab ki
insaan ko kuch to malumaat honi chahiye, kyoonke hum
jo hain wo mezhab aur sankriti ki wajay se hain. Hum
sab mein inki jhalak zaroor payi jati hai. Isiliye
main koshish karti hoon ke kabhi bade tyohaaron mein
kuch bhajan gaayen jaaein. Gaati hoon, lekin zyaada
kuch samajh mein nahi aata jo gaa rahi hoon to mujhe
kabhi se bhi aisa karna theek nahi lagta tha ke jo
main samajhti nahi hoon wo kisi aur ko kaise pesh
karoon? Kyoonke agar main nahi samajhti jo bol rahi
hoon, to main wo mehsoos kaise kar sakti hoon? Aur
agar mehsoos hi nahi karti, to bolna hi nahi
chahiye....
Ye mera khyaal tha, aur kaee bar inhin uljhanon mein
apne aap ko paati...ab aapne ye kissa suna kar mujhe
soch mein daal diya hai.....
Arun S., please see below....
"Arun Sampath" <as...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9cv398$l...@nntpb.cb.lucent.com...
> Just a small clarification. I think your post is in
response to Balu Nadig's
> post with subject "Who is this singer?" The link he
provided was
>
>
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/mailsong/index.cgi/3ae5126bca750000
>
> There is a Lata version of the song and another
singer's version of the same
> on the site. Both me and him called the other
singer's singing "wonderful".
> I just wanted to know if you are referring to Lata's
version or the other
> one.
I enjoyed listening to both, but the "unknown" singer
had more of her heart into the singing and her voice
was very soothing. The flute was also quite magical
in this version of the song. Her's was definitely
more pleasurable to listen than Lata's. And, I, for
one, am secretly dissapointed, because I've always
thought no one can be better than Lata M.
(Yes, it's a strong biased opinion! No flame wars, please!)
> A
>
> PS Which Vandana are you? Venkatesan or Vidwans or
neither
*All teary eyed* I am neither. I am Vandana Sharma.
I'm the mysterious "uusharma." I don't show up for a
while and there... I'm all forgotten....:)
-Vandana
> (I C Sharma in your email ID but last names might
change after tieing the
> knot...)
----- Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web -----
> Though 'mogaraa' *is* a simple song on the face of it, I
for one don't know
> what Dnyaneshwar is hinting at. Superficially, the mood is
one of gratitude
> and fulfilment. He plants a seedling... it grows into a
mighty creeper
> reaching
> into the skies. But is this a virahini despite this
positive tone ? Is D
> bemoaning
> that he is moving 'skywards' and yet is not *there* (one
with God).
> Shantabai Shelke has written how you can use simile,
point, counter-point,
> exaggeration, understatement, raising a reader's
expectation and then
> meeting or not meeting it and on and on to put across your
view.
> What is Dnyaneshwar up to here ?
>
As it is already mentioned, everybody is free to interprete
his/her own way. In this case, at least I would have
interpreted it as,
The small seedling is the love for god he developed, which
really started on a very small scale and has now blown into
a all encompassing obsession.
Anant
>
> - nani
>
>
>
> "Arun Sampath" <as...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:9cv398$l...@nntpb.cb.lucent.com...
> > There is a Lata version of the song and another
> singer's version of the same
> > on the site. Both me and him called the other
> singer's singing "wonderful".
> > I just wanted to know if you are referring to Lata's
> version or the other
> > one.
>
> I enjoyed listening to both, but the "unknown" singer
> had more of her heart into the singing and her voice
> was very soothing. The flute was also quite magical
> in this version of the song. Her's was definitely
> more pleasurable to listen than Lata's. And, I, for
> one, am secretly dissapointed, because I've always
> thought no one can be better than Lata M.
> (Yes, it's a strong biased opinion! No flame wars, please!)
I agree with you. I too was surpised to see/hear this unnamed singer
outsinging Lata. I guess part of it is because of the pitch in which Lata
sings the song. (A note higher would have sounded much better IMO.) Also,
the other singer gives the song a softish touch which makes it all the more
pleasing.
> > PS Which Vandana are you? Venkatesan or Vidwans or
> neither
>
> *All teary eyed* I am neither. I am Vandana Sharma.
> I'm the mysterious "uusharma." I don't show up for a
> while and there... I'm all forgotten....:)
You sure are not forgotten from people who have seen your posts. A couple of
people told me about you through email. I don't recall a post from you for
the last 1-2 years, so the query.
A
Suman Kalyanpur has sung a few exquisite songs in Abhogi.
'ketakichya bani tithe naachala ga mor'
'mala te aaThavel ka saare'
'mrudul karaanni chhedit taaraa'.
Superb as the songs are, Abhogi really cries out for a Lata.
Hridaynath does lot of alapi in Abhogi between stanzas of
'ghanu vaaje runzunaa' during his concerts. But in the song
as it appears on the commercial releases, I don't find any Abhogi.
IMO, 'ghanu vaaje' has that much more fluidity than 'mogaraa'.
In 'ne majasi ne parat matrubhumila', Hr M has used Abhogi
here and there, especially in some incredible flute pieces by
Hariprasad Chaurasia, of Jawahar-kanada and Indira-kalyan
and (Chandani / 2) fame.
As for gorakh-kalyan, has Abhisheki composed anything in it ?
Hridaynath, as 'mogaraa' attests, has completely mastered this
raag. He has used it in Lata's Ghalib ghazal 'phir mujhe deed-e-dar
yaad aayaa' and I can hear gorakh-kalyan touches in 'mat jaa jogi'
(non-filmi Lata solo) also. Another MD fond of Gorakh Kalyan
is Vasant Prabhu. 'apure maze swapna rahile' (Asha), 'hridayi jaaga
tu anuraga' (Lata), 'ghat do_i_var ghat kamarevar' (Lata again)
all have GK flavour. Anything by Vasant Desai, KhaLe or Phadke?
Or anybody else for that matter. How about S N Tripathi?
Finally, for me the incomprehensible preference of some posters
for the 'other' version of 'Mogaraa'. When the URL with links to
the renditions of 'Mogaraa' (one by Lata, the other by the unknown
singer) was posted on rmic, Chetan V wrote that he found nothing
particularly impressive about TOS (the other singer). And I
fully agree. TOS has taken her assignment seriously, and has
given it her all. It is worth listening to, but not THAT impressive at all.
It doesn't even begin to compare with Lata's version. It beggars belief
that anybody can like the other rendition of it the better.
Hridaynath sings 'mogaraa' masterfully.
Lata's singing of 'mogaraa' is a feast fit for Gods.
- nani
> Finally, for me the incomprehensible preference of some posters
> for the 'other' version of 'Mogaraa'. When the URL with links to
> the renditions of 'Mogaraa' (one by Lata, the other by the unknown
> singer) was posted on rmic, Chetan V wrote that he found nothing
> particularly impressive about TOS (the other singer). And I
> fully agree. TOS has taken her assignment seriously, and has
> given it her all. It is worth listening to, but not THAT impressive at
all.
> It doesn't even begin to compare with Lata's version. It beggars belief
> that anybody can like the other rendition of it the better.
>
> Hridaynath sings 'mogaraa' masterfully.
> Lata's singing of 'mogaraa' is a feast fit for Gods.
As Satishji would say "to each his own". Just listening to the two versions
back to back, I like the other singer's version better. Some might prefer
Lata's version but to say that Lata's version is incomparable is taking it a
bit too far IMO.
Lata has been outsung in quite a few tandem songs right from the peak of her
creative output in the 50s all the way to her nadir in the 90s. One
(legitimate) attack that I haven't been able to fend off from Lata-bashers
is that she has failed repeatedly in the tandem-songs department, be it with
Rafi, KK, Mukesh or Talat. I for one believe that Lata of the 50s is
probably the epitome of singing which none have matched so far. But then she
has been outsung in the 50s too. I try to give various explanations like
"the pitch was too high for her", "she just tried unnecessary variations",
"she got to sing the sad version of the song" etc etc. But none seem to fit
very well. I haven't been able to get a satisfactory explanation to this
from many Lata Bhakts either :-(
A
>I haven't been able to get a satisfactory explanation to this
>from many Lata Bhakts either :-(
The fault is yours. One doesn't ask a blind person for directions. Some Lata
bhakts are not only blind, but in her own words, even tone deaf, considering
they think her singing is great even today.
If only they were also speechless. :(
Ketan
When they listen to Lata's songs they indeed become speechless. :) but
internet does not require speech. It requires hands.
-rawat
>> The fault is yours. One doesn't ask a blind person for directions. Some Lata
>> bhakts are not only blind, but in her own words, even tone deaf, considering
>> they think her singing is great even today.
>>
>> If only they were also speechless. :(
>When they listen to Lata's songs they indeed become speechless. :) but
>internet does not require speech. It requires hands.
And no brains right? No wonder! :)
K10