Jaidev
mand...@emirates.net.ae
Speaking of Jaidev:
Very talented music director who composed some of the best songs ever
made for films.
One of my favourites.
Best non-film work was with Asha(Ghazals,geet & bhajan) & Manna
Dey('Madhushala').
After the 1971 war he composed a few patriotic songs like
‘Jo samar mein ho gaye amar’& ‘Satyamev Jayate’ which were sung by Lata.
Twice received national award as ‘Best Music Director’-once for ‘Gaman’
& once for ‘Ankahi’.
Certainly a 'classy' music director.Maybe that proved to be his drawback.
Considered to be too 'cerebral'!Complexity of his tunes & over-use
(Or should I say 'overt' use) of classical music might have endeared him to
the critics
& the intellectual audience but these factors prevented him from reaching
the
mainstream audience.’Hum dono’ was the only instance when he could please
all
i.e. classes,masses & box-office pundits.
My favourite film songs from Jaidev classics are:
1)Rafi: ‘Main zindagika saath nibhata chala gaya’(‘Hum dono’)
2)Asha: ‘Nadi naare na jaao’, ‘Maang mein bhar le rang’(‘Mujhe jeene do’)
‘Ja ri pawaniya’(‘Do boond paani’),'Dukh aur Sukhke raste'(Hum dono)
'
3)Kishore: ‘Yeh wohi geet hai’ (‘Maan jaiye)
4)Mukesh: ‘Jab ghame-ishq satata hai’(‘Kinare-kinare’)
5)Suresh Wadkar: ‘Seene mein jalan’(‘Gaman’)
6)Lata: needs a special post!
Some interesting facts:
1)After giving a superlative duet like 'Abhi na jaao chhodkar'(Rafi-Asha)
in
'Hum dono',Jaidev remained mainly a 'solo' expert- never reaching that
dizzy height in his duet compositions again!
2)In her 'Suranjali' to Jaidev, Asha sung 'Jo samar mein ho gaye amar'-
earlier
sung by Lata & the elder sister did the same in her patriotic songs' album
'Mere watanke logon' when she sung 'Sarfaroshiki tamanna ab hamare dilmein
hai'
earlier sung by Asha for Jaidev (& also included in 'Suranjali')!
In both instances the earlier versions scored over the latter versions!
:Dr.Mandar
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Anil Hingorani
mand...@emirates.net.ae wrote:
>
> Speaking of Jaidev:
> Very talented music director who composed some of the best songs ever
> made for films.
> One of my favourites.
>
>
Asha's phenomenal work with this composer with Lata's work - not as
criticism but an honest evaluation of how this intelligent composer
used the two celebrated sisters, one of whom considered him her 'rakhi'
brother and the other had an axe to grind with him for her famous
tiff with his guru.
Thanks,
Anil
--
ANIL P. HINGORANI
e-mail: hingora...@jpmorgan.com
Ketan
In article <3516EA7A...@arco.ny.jpmorgan.com>, Anil says...
>mand...@emirates.net.ae wrote:
>> 6)Lata: needs a special post!
Does she really? Why?
>I will wait for this post. I would appreciate if you could compare
>Asha's phenomenal work with this composer with Lata's work - not as
>criticism but an honest evaluation of how this intelligent composer
There you go. This is as honest a comparison as you will get.
Jaidev Songs Films Avg : Songs /Film
Lata 28 15 1.867
Asha 64 26 2.462
As you can see Asha beats Lata by more than a 1:2 margin. So methinks we need a
special post on Asha.
After all there are only 27 MD's (or pairs of MD's) who have employed Lata but
not Asha but there are 172 MD's who have used the services of Asha and never
even bothered to consider Lata. That's more than the 139 MD's who have used them
both. I tried posting that and some other details/statistics of the type shown
above, but unfortunately it was not formatting correctly. Will have to find
another method.
Ketan
A Burman fan(atic)
Hemlata N Khemani
On Mon, 23 Mar 1998, Anil Hingorani wrote:
> I will wait for this post. I would appreciate if you could compare
What prevented you from doing so yourself?
> Asha's phenomenal work with this composer with Lata's work - not as
> criticism but an honest evaluation of how this intelligent composer
> used the two celebrated sisters, one of whom considered him her 'rakhi'
> brother and the other had an axe to grind with him for her famous
> tiff with his guru.
so what is the point you are trying to make?
BTW, I am assuming from the clue that Asha was the sis and Lata had a
tiff. I have heard several accounts of media about the "men in Asha's
life". But I never knew that she had a rakhi brother! Oh well, sorry I
forgot that for the media (and for the people) Lata is the pious "Deviji"
who has "bhaiyas" and real "Dadas", and Asha, a woman with an antithetical
character has "men in her life"! :-/
Hema.
Anil Hingorani
Hemlata N Khemani wrote:
>
> On Mon, 23 Mar 1998, Anil Hingorani wrote:
>
> > I will wait for this post. I would appreciate if you could compare
>
> What prevented you from doing so yourself?
>
Because I wasn't the one who dismissed Asha's work with Jaidev by
listing just a few of her songs and claiming that Lata's work needed
a separate post. I think Asha has done some phenomenal work with
this composer and the original poster's giving her the short end of
the stick was not fair. Knowing Dr. Mandar's proclivities, I wanted
to make sure that the comparision was not a biased one, just like I
would have done if I had attempted it.
> > Asha's phenomenal work with this composer with Lata's work - not as
> > criticism but an honest evaluation of how this intelligent composer
>
> > used the two celebrated sisters, one of whom considered him her 'rakhi'
> > brother and the other had an axe to grind with him for her famous
> > tiff with his guru.
>
> so what is the point you are trying to make?
> BTW, I am assuming from the clue that Asha was the sis and Lata had a
> tiff. I have heard several accounts of media about the "men in Asha's
> life". But I never knew that she had a rakhi brother! Oh well, sorry I
> forgot that for the media (and for the people) Lata is the pious "Deviji"
> who has "bhaiyas" and real "Dadas", and Asha, a woman with an antithetical
> character has "men in her life"! :-/
>
> Hema.
OK, so why did you choose to bring this 'deviji' v/s 'men in Asha's
life' deal here? Haven't we run this thing to the ground already?
I still maintain, whatever you and others from the Asha club claim,
the fact that Lata became what she became and still is, will never
change, no matter how much you try to belittle the great Lady and
put forth all those age old she-cannot-sing-sensual-songs-better-
than-the-Alisha's-and-Bhonsale's-of-the-hindi-music-world. It don't
work that way:-)
Actually, as an example of Lata's sensual song(v/s Asha's in-your-face
sensual songs), I will try and post a song today, if time and
memory permit. Don't say you didn't ask for it:-)
Cheers,
Hemlata N Khemani
On Tue, 24 Mar 1998, Anil Hingorani wrote:
> OK, so why did you choose to bring this 'deviji' v/s 'men in Asha's
> life' deal here? Haven't we run this thing to the ground already?
> I still maintain, whatever you and others from the Asha club claim,
Why do you always look at things from a "flame" angle? My reaction about
the media's attitude towards Asha and Lata was just a reaction based on
the fact that I came to know something which I never knew before, that
Asha was jaidev's rakhi sister, which I don't think is as much a
publicized thing. I didn't bring the deal in anything.If you
think that to be a dig on you or some flame-bait (although i don't see
why), be assured it was not.
And Please don't include me in the Asha fan club. She is not related to
me, and nor am I interested in "claiming" anything. If I comment on
something that doesn't mean I am saying that in the capacity of being a
member of any fan club.
> the fact that Lata became what she became and still is, will never
> change, no matter how much you try to belittle the great Lady and
> put forth all those age old she-cannot-sing-sensual-songs-better-
> than-the-Alisha's-and-Bhonsale's-of-the-hindi-music-world. It don't
> work that way:-)
And where in my post did you see an effort to belittle the "Great Lady"?
I don't even consider her as a Great Lady, although i do consider her as a
great singer or an artist.
And BTW, you conveniently sidetracked without bothering to answer my
question, which was really the only thing that needed any response
that-"What was the point you were trying to make?" read my previous post
if you have forgotten that question. And please don't trouble yourself to
answer it now, I don't want to continue this further.
> Actually, as an example of Lata's sensual song(v/s Asha's in-your-face
> sensual songs), I will try and post a song today, if time and
> memory permit. Don't say you didn't ask for it:-)
Sure go ahead. But make sure that you send a copy to the RMIM automailer
at pko...@cc.gatech.edu so that it can be included in the ISB, if not
already in there. And yes, try to post in an ITRANS format, it doesn't
take too much effort and time to learn it if one doesn't know how to. Its
good to keep the mind busy in some useful and productive activity once in
a while.;-))
Hema.
mand...@emirates.net.ae
In article <6f8j1o$i...@drn.newsguy.com>,
Ketan wrote:
>There you go. This is as honest a comparison as you will get.
> Jaidev Songs Films Avg : Songs /Film
Lata 28 15 1.867
Asha 64 26 2.462
>As you can see Asha beats Lata by more than a 1:2 margin. So methinks we need
>a
>special post on Asha.
Who has prevented Asha-fans from posting an article detailing her
64 film songs?Eagerly looking forward!
>After all there are only 27 MD's (or pairs of MD's) who have employed Lata
>but
>not Asha but there are 172 MD's who have used the services of Asha and never
>even bothered to consider Lata.
Maybe none of them could afford Lata!
>Ketan
>A Burman fan(atic)
A food for thought:
This is an interesting piece of statistics
concerning Lata,Asha & SDBurman:-
Total number of solos Asha- 75
Lata- 130
During 1958 to 1962: Asha- 30
Lata- 00(Was out of SDB camp)
From 1962 to 1975: Asha- 16
Lata- 60.
Statistics is like a bikini- what it reveals is important
but what it hides is more important!!
mand...@emirates.net.ae
In article <Pine.GSO.3.96L.98032...@rat.labs.cis.pitt.edu>,
Hemlata N Khemani <hnk...@pitt.edu> wrote:
>I have heard several accounts of media about the "men in Asha's
life". But I never knew that she had a rakhi brother!
>
where she even tells how Jaidev suggested the name 'Varsha' for her
daughter!
Raza abidi
By he way, is it true that Lata's name was removed from the Guinness Book of
Records. Does anyone know why?
Surajit A. Bose
Surajit A. Bose wrote:
>
> Thanks for starting a thread on Jaidev, Dr Mandar.
>
> Dr Mandar wrote that after "abhii na jaao chho.Dakar," Jaidev did not compose
> any duets that reach the same "dizzy height." I don't know about that; "aaii
> ^Rtu saavan kii, piyaa moraa jaa re" from Alaap, a lovely Des composition
> beautifully rendered by Faiyyaz and Bhupinder, is at least as good.
>
> As for Jaidev, Lata, and Asha: As Ketan pointed out, if anything, Jaidev
> favored Asha over Lata. A quick recap: Toward the beginning of his career as
> Jaidev used Asha for such songs as the moving "raat ke pichale paharo.n me.n
> tum kyaa jaano ham kyo.n roye" in ANJALI and the romantic "dil javaa.n hai
> aa^rzuu javaa.n," a duet with Talat, in SAMUNDARI DAAKU. These two songs
> between them show the range that Jaidev elicited from Asha. Unlike such
> composers as Roshan, Madan Mohan, and SDB, who tended to use Lata for
> sublimity and Asha for oomph (or Lata for the heroine and Asha for the
> sidekicks), Jaidev did full justice to Asha's talent by not slotting her into
> any particular kind of song.
>
> The use Jaidev made of each sister in MUJHE JEENE DO shows his original and
> unbiassed approach to singer assignments. Lata and Asha each has three songs
> in the movie. Asha has one folk-based song: "nadii naare na jaao shaam
> paiyaa.N pa.Duu.N"; one nauTa.nkii style "moko piihar me.n mata chhe.D"; and
> this breath-takingly beautiful, chorus-backed number:
>
> maa.Ng me.n bhar le ra.ng, sakhii rii,
> aa.Nchal bhar le taare, milan ^Rtu aa gaii
> jaaegii tuu un sa.ng, sakhii rii,
> jo tohe laage pyaare, milan ^Rtu aa gaii
>
> Lata has the long and somewhat melodramatic "tere bachapan ko javaanii kii
> duaa detii huu.N"; the folksy "mohe na yuu.N ghuur ghuur ke dekho, najar lag
> jaaegii," and the brilliant
>
> raat bhii hai kuchh bhiigii bhiigii
> chaa.Nd bhii hai kuchh madhyam madhyam
> tum aao to aa.Nkhe.n khole
> soii huii paayal kii chham chham.
>
> Your run-of-the-mill MD would probably have assigned "maa.ng me.n bhar le
> ra.ng" to Lata and the mujra "mohe na yuu.N ghuur ghuur ke" to Asha--going by
> the style of song, it's the more expected assignment. But Jaidev's use of
> Asha's soaring, exhilerating voice gives "maa.Ng me.n bhar le ra.ng" a verve
> that makes the song perfect.
>
> Jaidev didn't always break from the norm in his singer assignments, of course.
> In RESHMA AUR SHERA, Lata gets "tuu cha.Ndaa mai.n chaa.Ndanii" and "mai.n aaj
> pavan me.n paauu.N"; Asha gets "tauba taubaa, merii taubaa, ik to ye bharpuur
> javaani." Sigh. I for one think that "mai.n aaj pavan me.n paauu.N" is
> rendered surprisingly dull by Lata's colorless style; Asha would have brought
> out the beauty of the composition better. I have a similar opinion of the two
> versions of "jo samar me.n ho gaye amar." Not having heard the Asha version, I
> agreed with Ashok's assessment of the composition as being little better than
> a classroom exercise. When I did finally hear Asha's version, I liked the song
> a whole lot better.
Thanks for starting a thread on Jaidev, Dr Mandar.
Dr Mandar wrote that after "abhii na jaao chho.Dakar," Jaidev did not compose
any duets that reach the same "dizzy height." Umm, I don't know about that; "aaii
^Rtu saavan kii, piyaa moraa jaa re" from Alaap, a lovely Des composition
beautifully rendered by Faiyyaz and Bhupinder, is at least as good.
As for Jaidev, Lata, and Asha: As Ketan pointed out, if anything, Jaidev
favored Asha over Lata. Toward the beginning of his career as
Jaidev used Asha for such songs as the moving "raat ke pichale paharo.n me.n
tum kyaa jaano ham kyo.n roye" in ANJALI and the romantic "dil javaa.n hai
aa^rzuu javaa.n," a duet with Talat, in SAMUNDARI DAAKU. These two songs
between them show the range that Jaidev elicited from Asha. Unlike such
composers as Roshan, Madan Mohan, and SDB, who tended to use Lata for
sublimity and Asha for oomph (or Lata for the heroine and Asha for the
sidekicks), Jaidev did full justice to Asha's talent by not slotting her into
any particular kind of song.
The use Jaidev made of each sister in MUJHE JEENE DO shows his original and
unbiassed approach to singer assignments. Lata and Asha each has three songs
in the movie. Asha has one folk-based song: "nadii naare na jaao shaam
paiyaa.N pa.Duu.N"; one nauTa.nkii style "moko piihar me.n mata chhe.D"; and
this breath-takingly beautiful, chorus-backed number:
maa.Ng me.n bhar le ra.ng, sakhii rii,
aa.Nchal bhar le taare, milan ^Rtu aa gaii
jaaegii tuu un sa.ng, sakhii rii,
jo tohe laage pyaare, milan ^Rtu aa gaii
Lata has the long and somewhat melodramatic "tere bachapan ko javaanii kii
duaa detii huu.N"; the folksy "mohe na yuu.N ghuur ghuur ke dekho, najar lag
jaaegii," and the brilliant
raat bhii hai kuchh bhiigii bhiigii
chaa.Nd bhii hai kuchh madhyam madhyam
tum aao to aa.Nkhe.n khole
soii huii paayal kii chham chham.
Your run-of-the-mill MD would probably have assigned "maa.ng me.n bhar le
ra.ng" to Lata and the mujra "mohe na yuu.N ghuur ghuur ke" to Asha--going by
the style of song, it's the more expected assignment. But Jaidev's use of
Asha's soaring, exhilerating voice gives "maa.Ng me.n bhar le ra.ng" a verve
that makes the song perfect.
Jaidev didn't always break from the norm in his singer assignments, of course.
In RESHMA AUR SHERA, Lata gets "tuu cha.Ndaa mai.n chaa.Ndanii" and "mai.n aaj
pavan me.n paauu.N"; Asha gets "tauba taubaa, merii taubaa, ik to ye bharpuur
javaani." Sigh. I for one think that "mai.n aaj pavan me.n paauu.N" is
rendered surprisingly dull by Lata's colorless style; Asha would have brought
out the beauty of the composition better. I have a similar opinion of "jo
samar me.n ho gaye amar." Not having heard the Asha version, I agreed with
Ashok's assessment of the composition as being little better than a classroom
exercise. When I did finally hear Asha's version, I liked the song a whole lot better.
Other great Asha songs from Jaidev include "jaa ri pavaniyaa, piyaa ke des
jaa" from DO BOOND PAANI; "mere haatho.n me.n lage to ra.ng jaaye meha.ndii
tere naam kii" from TUMHARE LIYE; and the bhajans from ANKAHEE. I haven't
managed to get the entire Jaidev-Asha "Unforgettable Treat" LP, unfortunately;
but the songs I've heard are all top-notch, my personal fave being the Kamaali song:
naa mai.n laDii thii, shyaam nikas gaye
Jaidev has also used Usha Mangeshkar with surprisingly good results in some
songs: "saa.Njh bhaii jhaa.Njh bhed jiyaraa ke khole re" from SAPNA; "more
taras taras gaye nainaa" from TUMHARE LIYE.
But one facet of Jaidev's talent that is particularly impressive is the breaks
he gave to up and coming singers. Sure, he used Lata, Asha, Rafi (not too much
Kishore, though), and the usual also-rans Usha, Mukesh, and Manna; but his
first national award was for Chhaya Ganguli's debut "aap kii yaad aatii rahii
raat bhar." I believe this was her first, last, and only film song....
Jaidev also gave Hariharan his first break with "ajiib saanaha mujhpar guzar
gayaa yaaro" in GAMAN; Anuradha Paudwal her first big hit with "zi.ndagii
zi.ndagii mere ghar aanaa" in DOOORIYAN; Shubha Joshi (of SARDARI BEGUM fame)
her first film song with "mori bagiyaa kii bahaar, saa.Nvaro, o saa.Nvaro" in
AMAR JYOTI--way back in 1984; Suresh Wadkar exposure with "siine me.n jalan.
The list continues: Runa Laila, Minoo Purushottam, Raj Kumar Rizvi, K. K.
Sharma, Preeti Sagar, Madhurani, Faiyyaz....all fairly obscure singers who
have sung under Jaidev's baton. In a very real sense it's irrelevant whether
Jaidev has more memorable Lata hits than Asha hits, or vice-versa. After all,
which MD of his generation does not have both some Lata hits and some Asha
hits? (No, Ashok, OPN doesn't count. Stop splitting hairs.) What does matter
is that he has elicited memorable songs from a far wider spectrum of singers
than practically any other MD--and in far fewer movies.
-s
Anil Hingorani
Hey Surajit,
Surajit A. Bose wrote:
>
> >
> > Dr Mandar wrote that after "abhii na jaao chho.Dakar," Jaidev did not compose
> > any duets that reach the same "dizzy height." I don't know about that; "aaii
> > ^Rtu saavan kii, piyaa moraa jaa re" from Alaap, a lovely Des composition
> > beautifully rendered by Faiyyaz and Bhupinder, is at least as good.
> >
Fully agree with you here. I always have a tough time deciding between
'alaap', 'gaman' and 'ankahi', which is my favorite Jaidev soundtrack
and I think 'alaap' wins most days:-)
> >
> > Lata has the long and somewhat melodramatic "tere bachapan ko javaanii kii
TO me this is one of Jaidev's best compositions, yes even better than
'raat bhi hai kuchh..' I find it extremely powerful and moving.
> > Your run-of-the-mill MD would probably have assigned "maa.ng me.n bhar le
> > ra.ng" to Lata and the mujra "mohe na yuu.N ghuur ghuur ke" to Asha--going by
> > the style of song, it's the more expected assignment. But Jaidev's use of
> > Asha's soaring, exhilerating voice gives "maa.Ng me.n bhar le ra.ng" a verve
> > that makes the song perfect.
> >
I think 'mohe na yun..' should have been assigned to Asha. But besides
that, Jaidev's choice of singers in this film is indeed brilliant.
> > javaani." Sigh. I for one think that "mai.n aaj pavan me.n paauu.N" is
> > rendered surprisingly dull by Lata's colorless style;
Right, just like Asha renders 'tauba tauba..' in her oft repeated and
tired/tiring sexy singing style:-)
> out the beauty of the composition better. I have a similar opinion of "jo
> samar me.n ho gaye amar." Not having heard the Asha version, I agreed with
> Ashok's assessment of the composition as being little better than a classroom
> exercise. When I did finally hear Asha's version, I liked the song a whole lot better.
>
And in which room does Asha's version fit in? Surely not in a classroom!
> Other great Asha songs from Jaidev include "jaa ri pavaniyaa, piyaa ke des
> jaa" from DO BOOND PAANI; "mere haatho.n me.n lage to ra.ng jaaye meha.ndii
> tere naam kii" from TUMHARE LIYE; and the bhajans from ANKAHEE.
That song from 'do boond paani' and the bhajans from 'ankahi' are some
of the best work Asha has done. I am amazed at her talent, when I listen
to these.
> have sung under Jaidev's baton. In a very real sense it's irrelevant whether
> Jaidev has more memorable Lata hits than Asha hits, or vice-versa. After all,
> which MD of his generation does not have both some Lata hits and some Asha
> hits? (No, Ashok, OPN doesn't count. Stop splitting hairs.) What does matter
> is that he has elicited memorable songs from a far wider spectrum of singers
> than practically any other MD--and in far fewer movies.
>
So true. And he came so close to using Ms. Subalakshmi too.
Thanks for a good write up on your favorite MD. He was truly a genius
and deserved more success than he got.
Hemlata N Khemani
On Thu, 26 Mar 1998, Surajit A. Bose wrote:
> but the songs I've heard are all top-notch, my personal fave being the
> Kamaali song:
>
> naa mai.n laDii thii, shyaam nikas gaye
There is a Lata song which has the words "saiyan nikas gaye main na la.Dii
thii", which sounds similar to this one. i cannot remmebr the starting of
that song. Which song is it and is the lyricist the same for both?
Hema.
Anil Hingorani
Hi Hema,
Hemlata N Khemani wrote:
>
> On Thu, 26 Mar 1998, Surajit A. Bose wrote:
>
> > but the songs I've heard are all top-notch, my personal fave being the
> > Kamaali song:
> >
> > naa mai.n laDii thii, shyaam nikas gaye
>
> There is a Lata song which has the words "saiyan nikas gaye main na la.Dii
> thii", which sounds similar to this one. i cannot remmebr the starting of
> that song. Which song is it and is the lyricist the same for both?
>
> Hema.
This is from RK's 'satyam shivum sundaram', composed by LP and sung by
Lata and Bhupinder. This one is credited to Vithabhai Patel. This is
my favorite song from this much hyped, albeit mediocre, soundtrack.
As far as comparing the two songs, where composition is concerned,
I think I will leave that for my friend Surajit. He will certainly
relish this opportunity to compare his favorite composer with LP and
the 'sone pe suhaga' is that he will also get a chance to trumpet
(rightfully so) his favorite singer's superiority in the singing
department:-)
Cheers,
Ashok
In article <351B07A1...@nd.edu>, sbo...@nd.edu says...
>
>Surajit A. Bose wrote:
Looks like Surajit is practising academic writing. He has doubled the
size of his post by quoting himself. :)
>Dr Mandar wrote that after "abhii na jaao chho.Dakar," Jaidev did not compose
>any duets that reach the same "dizzy height." Umm, I don't know about that; "aaii
>^Rtu saavan kii, piyaa moraa jaa re" from Alaap, a lovely Des composition
>beautifully rendered by Faiyyaz and Bhupinder, is at least as good.
And "peetar ki meri gaagari" from 'Do Boond Pani' by Minu Purshottam and
Parween Sultana is better. And if there are some bigots that consider only
heterosexual songs as duets there is a lovely one in 'Trikon Ka Chautha Kon',
1983, sung by Bhupender and Penaz Masani:
dil dhaDakne ki aavaaz ki khaamoshi ke sivaa kuch bhi to nahi.n
>Asha has one folk-based song: "nadii naare na jaao shaam
>paiyaa.N pa.Duu.N";
Jaidev did choose Asha for this song and scored the music very elegantly,
but do note that the tune is not his. It is a folk-tune and there exists
a prior recording with essentially the same words and tunes, sung by one
Gulab Bai.
>Jaidev didn't always break from the norm in his singer assignments, of course.
>In RESHMA AUR SHERA, Lata gets "tuu cha.Ndaa mai.n chaa.Ndanii" and "mai.n aaj
>pavan me.n paauu.N"; Asha gets "tauba taubaa, merii taubaa, ik to ye bharpuur
>javaani." Sigh.
Nor does it look like he ever acknowledged the existence of Suman Kalyanpur.
>I for one think that "mai.n aaj pavan me.n paauu.N" is
>rendered surprisingly dull by Lata's colorless style; Asha would have brought
>out the beauty of the composition better. I have a similar opinion of "jo
>samar me.n ho gaye amar." Not having heard the Asha version, I agreed with
>Ashok's assessment of the composition as being little better than a classroom
>exercise.
I am glad to note that Surajit has changed his philosophy! Apparently, he has
now concluded that reporting on RMIM the content of private communication is
fine. (BTW, Surajit, I am not complaining. I welcome the change and will
act accoridngly. :)) Seriously, however, I must tell you about another thing.
there is another change that seems to have come over you that I deprecate:
mentioning private people, not on RMIM, by name on RMIM. The only justification
I see for you is that you made the whole thing up.)
>When I did finally hear Asha's version, I liked the song a whole lot better.
>
But, it is the same pedestrian composition.
>But one facet of Jaidev's talent that is particularly impressive is the breaks
>he gave to up and coming singers. Sure, he used Lata, Asha, Rafi (not too much
>Kishore, though), and the usual also-rans Usha, Mukesh, and Manna; but his
>first national award was for Chhaya Ganguli's debut "aap kii yaad aatii rahii
>raat bhar." I believe this was her first, last, and only film song....
This may be her "first and last", but certainly not the "only" flm song! In
the 1983 film I mentioned above, she songs an exquisite solo
hole hole ras ghole Dole mujh se jiyaa
piyaa piyaa te kyaa jaadoo par mai.n ne kyaa kiyaa
itaraae, itaraae, ith laae muje mujh se jiyaa (?)
piyaa piyaa te kyaa jaadoo par mai.n ne kyaa kiyaa
The film has one more song, by Shobha Joshi:
pyaar hai amrit kalash ambar tale
pyaar baa.nTaa jaae jitanaa baa.nT le
According to the film credits, the lyrics are by three poets: Mahadevi Varma,
Shahryar, and Maya Govind. Can nettors tell from the opening lines who might
be the lyricst of which song?
>After all,
>which MD of his generation does not have both some Lata hits and some Asha
>hits? (No, Ashok, OPN doesn't count. Stop splitting hairs.)
>-s
Why are you taking my name in vain?:) Since you have done it already, let
me bring up Kanu Roy, a supremely talented MD who totally disdained Lata.
For him, it had to be Geeta or, as a second choice, Asha.
Ashok
neha...@hotmail.com
> >criticism but an honest evaluation of how this intelligent composer
>
>
> Jaidev Songs Films Avg : Songs /Film
> Lata 28 15 1.867
> Asha 64 26 2.462
And you call this an honest comparison? I would call it statistics. Says
nothing of the songs and does not evaluate them.
> As you can see Asha beats Lata by more than a 1:2 margin.
>
> After all there are only 27 MD's (or pairs of MD's) who have employed Lata
but
> not Asha but there are 172 MD's who have used the services of Asha and never
> even bothered to consider Lata. That's more than the 139 MD's who have used
them
> both.
Someone on rmim once said something about quantity and quality when talking
about Asha :)
--
Neha
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to
what lies within us...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
neha...@hotmail.com
In article <351B07A1...@nd.edu>, sbo...@nd.edu wrote:
>
> Other great Asha songs from Jaidev include "jaa ri pavaniyaa, piyaa ke des
> jaa" from DO BOOND PAANI; "mere haatho.n me.n lage to ra.ng jaaye meha.ndii
> tere naam kii" from TUMHARE LIYE; and the bhajans from ANKAHEE. I haven't
At the same time you forget to mention two great Lata solos from TUMHARE LIYE.
One is the beautiful solo that Lata puts her soul into :
tumhein dekhti hoon to lagta hai aise...ke jaise yugon se tumhein jaanti hun..
piya tum ho saagar...main pyaasi nadi hun...
the other is a superb bhajan :
bole raadha shyaam diwaani...pii ka mukhada bhor suhani...
Surajit, dont you think you have overlooked Jaidev-Lata's better songs. Or
maybe you think they have been discussed before so you dont have to write
about them. You forget to mention the songs Lata has with Jaidev in HUM DONO.
I think they were great. I couldnt think of Bhajans and not think of them.
Also how about the PREM PARBAT solo :
ye dil aur unki nigaahon ke saaye...
And the ALAAP duet with Dilraj Kaur :
Maata saraswati shaarda...
About this song, I do not remember whether it was a post or an email, by you,
where you mentioned that Lata sounds old and dreary(might not be the exact
words, but something to that effect) when compared to Dilraj Kaur. The song is
picturised on Rekha and her kid. As regards to Lata's singing I feel it is
more mature than 'old', I think she has done an excellent job. Dilraj kaur
hardly gets a chance to show off her singing talents when the stalwart is also
a part of the duet. But when you have Lata do it, why bother. A difficult
song, I wonder what raga it would be? There are very few bhakti geet on
Goddess Saraswati. Can people write on rmim the ones they are aware of? I post
the lyrics here, I think there would be more antaras, as I have a feeling my
tape has this song chopped off.
The way Lata goes 'alankaa~~~aar' is simply unforgettable. The incredible
wave(I do not know the technical term) in just this one word justifies owning
the soundtrack of ALAAP. It is awesome and very hard to replicate.
Here go the lyrics.
he..maata saraswati shaarda...
he..maata sarawati shaarda...
vidya-daani dayani dukh-harini...
jagat janani jwaala-mukhi maata...
saraswati shaarda...
kije sudrishti..sevak jaan apna...
itna vardaan dije...
taan..taal aur aalaap...
budhhi alankaa~~~~ar
shaarda...
he maata saraswati shaarda...
vidya-daani dayani dukh-harini...
jagat janani jwaala-mukhi maata...
saraswati shaarda...
Follows here is a beautiful piece of santoor after which my tape ends the
song. I have a feeling it was abrupting ending...another of HMV's blunders.
The other songs of the movie that i remember offhand are :
koi gaata...main so jaata...
and
chaand akela...jaaye sakhi ri...
(a beautiful solo by Yesudas)
--
Neha
-------------------------------------------------------------------
bhed bhaav apne dil se...saaf kar sake...
doston se bhool ho to...maaf kar sake...
Arun Verma
In article <6fof9r$hsk$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, <neha...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>In article <351B07A1...@nd.edu>, sbo...@nd.edu wrote:
>>
>> jaa" from DO BOOND PAANI; "mere haatho.n me.n lage to ra.ng jaaye meha.ndii
>> tere naam kii" from TUMHARE LIYE; and the bhajans from ANKAHEE. I haven't
>
>
>Maata saraswati shaarda...
>
This is a good song, but didn;t Jaidev use a popular traditional tune for this?
Which is movie the lovely lata solo "Kaahe manva naache hamra.." what a fresh and
beautiful composition.! One of Jaidev's best, IMO.
Arun
--
--
Ketan
In article <6fobs1$emd$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, neha...@hotmail.com says...
>
>In article <6f8j1o$i...@drn.newsguy.com>, Ketan wrote:
>>
>> >I will wait for this post. I would appreciate if you could compare
>> >Asha's phenomenal work with this composer with Lata's work - not as
>> >criticism but an honest evaluation of how this intelligent composer
>>
>> There you go. This is as honest a comparison as you will get.
>>
>> Jaidev Songs Films Avg : Songs /Film
>> Lata 28 15 1.867
>> Asha 64 26 2.462
>
>And you call this an honest comparison? I would call it statistics. Says
>nothing of the songs and does not evaluate them.
Statistics too can be honest you know even if they are hard to stomach. :) My
response was to the original question posed by Anil. He asked for an honest
evaluation of how Jaidev had used Lata and Asha. Do tell me where my answer does
not fit into his original question? Yes, I have not evaluated the songs, only
because I do not have as much knowledge of Jaidev's music as say Surajit or
Ashok hence I was quite content in presenting the information and letting others
talk on this subject. Now, is it a crime to present statistical information and
keep quiet if one doesn't know much about a particular MD?
When I initially did the statistical evaluation I showed it to Ashok, and he
asked me to post it. I told him that I was reluctant to do it, because I feared
that with the paranoia prevalent on RMIM regarding Asha and Lata, I said "I
would have to put a disclaimer with every statement, saying that this was only
information obtained from the Nerurkar books and were not my views nor were they
indicative of their actual work since quality does count too". Ashok said "I
think RMIMers are mature enough to know that this is only statistics and would
not overreact" I think a HAH! is called for. Pardon me Ashok for bringing in off
the record conversations but it is relevant here and NO, you may not return the
favour. :) I am glad that I had formatting problems while posting and had to
abandon my efforts, otherwise we would have had a whole pack of bloodhounds
chivvying me for what they could have found in the books too. That there is
paranoia is quite noticeable from another nettor's statement about "If they took
Asha they probably could not afford Lata" thus wiping out all occurences, if
they exist, of something called talent that Asha may have. The term "You are in
denial" came to my mind upon reading this line. Where was your "quality counts
too" statement then? I did not see you refuting that. Was it because it was
against Asha? The same nettor then takes my signature file, and presents data on
SDB's usage of Lata and Asha and presents only those facts that support his
statement. He cites that Lata sang more solos for SDB than Asha, ( I have not
confirmed this but I am assuming he is right) but conveniently hides the fact
that Asha sang more duets. Should I therefore infer that according to SDB,
Asha's voice went along better with KK, Rafi, Talat, Manna, Hemant and Mukesh
while Lata's did not? If he did take my signature file as a reason to present
facts on SDB, then he should have remembered that there are 2 Burmans. My
signature does not differentiate between the two so why not present facts about
the other one? Is it because the statistics are heavily loaded against Lata? So
would I be wrong in thinking that the motto of the Lataites is -- "Reveal only
those statistics which support our position and if they go against us, start
hollering about the quantity versus quality argument". The gentleman was right
when he gave us his "bikini" statement. It is unfortunate that he too chose to
wear the same outfit. I hereby renew my call for "making the bunnies disappear
or sawing them in half". Ofcourse if you do decide to claim that your initial
statement was in jest, than so are all of mine above. :)
Have a nice day,
Ketan
A Burman fan(atic)
Chetan Vinchhi
You wrote:
>
> Statistics too can be honest you know...
No, they can be honest only statistically speaking. Let's see
how you get out of that vicious circle :)
> Yes, I have not evaluated the songs, only
> because I do not have as much knowledge of Jaidev's music...
It is novel to see somebody flaunt his ignorance so proudly!
Most lesser creatures would be a lot coyer.
Well, why don't you perform a comparative evaluation of the
work Lata and Asha have done with S.D.Burman? Or R.D.?
Please try to stick to songs officially credited to the
two Burmans please. No point in saying things like this
RD Asha song is similar to / better than / inferior to
that SD Lata song which was actually ghost composed by
RD when SD was busy betting on a E.Bengal/MohunBagan
match!
C
Anil Hingorani
Neha,
neha...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
<snip>
> And the ALAAP duet with Dilraj Kaur :
>
> Maata saraswati shaarda...
>
<snip>
> The way Lata goes 'alankaa~~~aar' is simply unforgettable. The incredible
> wave(I do not know the technical term) in just this one word justifies owning
> the soundtrack of ALAAP. It is awesome and very hard to replicate.
>
Sorry, but have to disagree with you here. Lata's 'kahe manva naache..'
is quite good, but her voice was well past her prime. This is very
apparent in the bhajan you mention. I really don't care for the way
she sings this bhajan. She could have atleast tried to sing it well,
like she did the song mentioned above, despite that fact that her
voice was failing.
Her songs in 'tumhare liye' are beautifully composed, and quite well
sung too, but nowhere close to what she could have done with them a
few years earlier.
For me a great Jaidev/Lata song (besides the obvious ones already
discussed) is the absolutely marvellous 'har aas ashqbaar hai..'
from 'kinare kinare'. Just listen to the emotions she packs in
this song. The bitter-sweet irony of the lyrics come across so
beautifully in this lush, lilting composition. This is a very
'waltzy' composition by Jaidev, very much like (but way superior to)
SJs 'dil ki girah khol do..'. The only (similar) compositions that
come close to Jaidev's are Chitragupta's 'deewane tum...' and SDBs
'phaili hui hain..'
Surajit A. Bose
neha...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Surajit, dont you think you have overlooked Jaidev-Lata's better songs.
I was responding to the general discussion when two or three people said
someone should write about Asha and Jaidev. Of course Lata and Jaidev had
their share of great songs. I agree entirely with Anil's assessments of the
Lata-Jaidev songs: "har aas ashq_baar hai, har saa.Ns beqaraar hai" is
magical.
I do think that Lata's voice fails very badly indeed in ALAAP (1977), and even
the songs of TUMHARE LIYE (1978) strike me as betraying fatigue and shrillness
in the higher register. To be perfectly honest, I find Lata's voice getting a
bit strained even in the higher pitches of "tuu cha.Ndaa mai.n chaa.Ndanii,"
way back in RESHMA AUR SHERA (1972?).....but it's still a great composition.
It's interesting that Jaidev did not use Lata again after TUMHARE LIYE. Asha
does crop up in AMAR JYOTI and ANKAHEE, though.
"maataa sarasvatii shaaradaa" is a traditional Sarasvati vandanaa in Bhairavi.
Asha has sung a version of it on Ali Akbar Khan's Legacy cassette. Frankly,
Jaidev's orchestration is better than his mentor's.
- -s