You Kishore Kumar Fans MAY skip this
a.sandeep
I don't know how to start this; because I haven't felt so strongly
before, and also for the first time, I may have to say something that
I don't feel comfortable saying i. e. about Kishore Kumar.
For the past six months or so that I have been reading this newsgroup
I have gotten tired of Kishore Kumar fans often boasting about Kishore
Kumar. I have no problem when they do that, as long as they do not
side line others.
Before I get on with what I want to say, a few words about myself:
Ever since I was a boy I remember always liking songs and singing
them for myself and for others, and I continue to sing and give
performances among Indian gatherings. I like songs that are pleasing
to me, and sing any song I like no matter who the original singers
are. I like a wide variety of music from film songs, Indian and
western classical, jazz and you name it (except for rap music (so far)).
Now, what do I want to say. I like songs well sung by any singer, and
as you keep hearing a particular singer you start to get attached
more and more to their style of singing. At the same time you like
other styles of the singers that you have not listened to that much.
Given that I started liking Rafi's song to start with.
I did not like Mukesh songs that much; but as I listened to his sad
songs with feelings I can say he is the best singer in terms of
expressing sad feelings. Something touches you when you listen to his
songs. [ let me
add something here, when I listen to songs of any language I mainly
listen to the music and the feelings it conveys. If I listened to the
meaning it is only incidental ]. If I go by the criteria that someone
that touches you by feeling I can say Mukesh is the best.
When my interest was just film songs, I did not enjoy that much of
Manna Dey's songs. As I listened to more of classical songs, I liked
the semi-classical songs very much and loved Manna Dey's songs. He
has given such a good collections of songs.
Then came Kishore Kumar, with such a variety of songs for so many
actors, and singing several differnt types of songs. It was very
good. Actually in my song selections to sing there are a lot of
Kishore Kumar songs. The one thing that I have not attempted or
tried is his yodelling. He did it so nice. Very talented.
I can go on naming the singers that I like ...; but you may ask what
happened to Rafi that I started liking in the begining. My friends,
that liking never changed all these times. That is like your main course
in a dinner. I continued enjoying the songs of Rafi. The only time
that I did not like his voice or songs were the time just after
Kishore Kumar became famous and sidelined Rafi; but that moment
was very brief, and he bounced back with some good opportunities
from his old music directors. He started sounding good, and as
he was about gain back his original stature in the music he died
unfortunately. What a great loss for people like me who enjoy
songs of Rafi, Kishore, Mukesh etc.
Other nettors have given specific examples about Rafi's song;
therefore I will get into specifics here; but I will say this.
To my ear Rafi is the best singer that I have listened to in
all of Indian film music. You name a type of a song, and he has
sung that kind, not one song for sample but many in that category.
One thing he has not done is yodelling like Kishore, and I will
accept that. Over all he is the best and to me no comparison, and
when another singer come to that level I will acknowledge that.
To me Kishore Kumar was a very good singer with lot of talents;
but I can not even compare with Rafi. I can not compare anyone
to Rafi.
In my considering Rafi as tha best I have concisously tried to
keep other factors like personality, other talents etc. out of this
because if I did that I am not comparing the singers. Let me
give you some examples. I did not let the pleasantness of Rafi's
personality into it. Also, when the one time great Rafi was
sidelined he never complained, or said anything bad about anyone.
He silently worked, worked, and worked to regain that status,
at the same time in a pleasant way.
Sometimes people may bring other talents of a person in to
praise a person. I like Kishore Kumar as an actor, comedian,
director, filmmaker etc. I would say he would probably be the
best or one of the best allrounder the film industry ever
produced; but when it comes to singing, he is great singer;but
again can not compare him to Rafi.
I have repeated several times about Mohd. Rafi. What are the
criterias that I chose for a singer that made me think he is
the gratest:
- Good voice, and of course voice control
- Ability to bring several moods into the song.
- Ability to sing for several actors as if the actor himself
is singing.
- Casualness in singing. Sometime let the voice free and see
where it takes.
- and I can go on.
TO COMPLETE THIS LIST LISTEN TO RAFI'S SONGS.
One other singer who can come almost closer to his level is
S. P. Balasubramaniam as far as his South Indian songs are
concerned. I do not like his pronunciation in Hindi that much,
and in comparison, I don't his Hindi songs that much compared
to his South Indian songs. However, his Hindi songs are much
better than other singers.
In closing, let me say one thing. DO NOT COMPARE RAFI with
anyone when you talk about Hindi film music. It is not worth
it.
You KISHORE KUMAR fans, did you ever findout why you do not
like any of RAFI's clones. You GUESSED IT BUT WERE AFRAID TO
ACCEPT ... because no one else can sing like him. Some can
sound partially like him, some could copy his style;but
can not be done like Kumar Sanu was able to.
Let me stop here. It's getting very late for me, and I have
to leave. I will follow it with anyone who wants to discuss
some specific comparison.
Sandeep
P. S. 1
It was tough for me pick Rafi alone; but I had to do it.
I could not take it any longer the type of putdowns for Rafi
P. S. 2
I wanted to write something like this lontime back; but
I got a chance only now.
P. S. 3
As I am working away from my regular location I may not be able
respond immediately. Just to get this message I had go through
lots of trouble
P. S. 4
To Kishore Kumar fans: I like most of his songs, I sing them
and I have collected many of his songs for singing, so don't
feel bad.
PVR Narasimha Rao
In article <1993Apr6.2...@cbnewsj.cb.att.com>, nef...@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (a.sandeep) writes:
[personal intro (showing how open-minded he is) and a thesis on why Rafi is
the greatest (presentation of personal opinions as a logical argument while
criticizing KK fans for doing the same) deleted]
First, let us get one thing straight dude. Not all KK fans are Rafi bashers.
For example, I am not. In fact, I am a big fan of Rafi. IMHO it is silly to
argue over the greatness of stalwarts. Greatness is an intuitive and
subjective concept and it's silly to _argue_ over subjective issues. Don't
think that you are the only one to see light and others are not thinking
correctly. There is nothnig to think here. It is a matter of opinion rather
than truth.
:) You KISHORE KUMAR fans, did you ever findout why you do not
:) like any of RAFI's clones. You GUESSED IT BUT WERE AFRAID TO
:) ACCEPT ... because no one else can sing like him. Some can
:) sound partially like him, some could copy his style;but
:) can not be done like Kumar Sanu was able to.
Huh, have you heard any songs of a guy called Mohd Anwar, the nephew of Mohd
Rafi?
He doesn't sing many songs (somehow Mohd Aziz and Shabbeer Kumar have the
support of most music dierctors despite their at-best-cheap imitation of
Rafi), but he does a brilliant job when he imitates. Aziz etc can imitate
only certain moods and tones of Rafi (in a cheap way of their own). Anwar
OTOH can imitate various facets of Rafi. On his day, he can fool you. It's
easy to mistake Anwar for Rafi (esp when the music is also misleading). I am
not kidding.
In his "soni soni soni soni" days, Anwar was a bit immature, but today he is
a terrific singer. Unfortunately he is not as famous as Shabbeer and Aziz.
Another thing is: some nettors may not agree, but I have always felt that
Kumar Sanu is NOT at all a good imitator. Compared to Amit Kumar's imitation
of KK and Anwar's imitation of Rafi, Sanu's imitation of KK is CHEAP. I can
only pity those who think Sanu's imitation of Kishore is better than Anwar's
imitation of Rafi (or than Amit's imitation of KK).
OK, how about a silly bet? If anyone sends me a cassette having songs (or
bits of songs) sung only by Sanu or KK (include only remote songs, otherwise
no point), I will identify the singer in each song. I will send a cassette
having songs (or bits of songs) sung by only Amit Kumar or Kishore Kumar or
Mohd Anwar or Mohd Rafi. YOU identify the singer in each song. Let us see
who does a better job! (I can guarantee 100% success in differentiating
between Sanu and KK anyway!)
BTW, if a singer can be imitated, it doesn't IMHO take away _anything_ from
his greatness!
:) P. S. 4
:) To Kishore Kumar fans: I like most of his songs, I sing them
:) and I have collected many of his songs for singing, so don't
:) feel bad.
No, I am feeling very bad. I am terribly upset. Oh, God, I thought KK was
better than Rafi, but I found out just now -- Rafi is greater! Oh no. What
should I do now!
Cool dude. Good that you like Rafi. Good that someone else likes KK. (And,
good that I like everyone. :) ). Let us not start fighting over these petty
personal issues! Even if someone writes somethnig provocative, let us just
ignore it!
PVR
SAMIUDDIN MOHAMMED
fans (like me!) feel. However I feel that the title ought to have been "You
Kishore fans BETTER READ THIS" :-)
In article <1993Apr6.2...@cbnewsj.cb.att.com>, nef...@cbnewsj.cb.att.com
(a.sandeep) writes:
[......]
>
>To my ear Rafi is the best singer that I have listened to in
>all of Indian film music. You name a type of a song, and he has
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>sung that kind, not one song for sample but many in that category.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is exactly what I meant when I had recently said that Rafi's range was
wider that anyone else's. Someone had (humourously) suggested that we ought to
measure Rafi's range in inches. Well, I have a better idea. Let's divide
Rafi's range by KK's and then we'll have a dimensionless quantity (a very
large one though :-)
>One thing he has not done is yodelling like Kishore, and I will
>accept that. Over all he is the best and to me no comparison, and
Yodelling was definitely KK's forte. Noone could even come close to him in
this area.
>One other singer who can come almost closer to his level is
>S. P. Balasubramaniam as far as his South Indian songs are
>concerned. I do not like his pronunciation in Hindi that much,
>and in comparison, I don't his Hindi songs that much compared
>to his South Indian songs. However, his Hindi songs are much
>better than other singers.
>
I'm a big fan of Balu myself and agree with you completely here.
>In closing, let me say one thing. DO NOT COMPARE RAFI with
>anyone when you talk about Hindi film music. It is not worth
>it.
>
People may like KK more than Rafi and that is understandable as personal
tastes differ. However, saying that KK had a wider range (meaning he could
sing all sorts of songs and Rafi couldn't) is defintely not acceptable.
Sami Mohammed (A Naushad fan).......who declares that KK > Rafi IFF (if and
only if) yodelling is the single criterion for
judgement!!
>
>
>Sandeep
>
--
_______________________________________________________________________________
|
Sami Mohammed |
Emulsion Polymers Institute | I polymerize,
Dept. of Chemical Engineering | Therefore, I AM
Lehigh University |
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