A lovely interview by Manna Dey
kcp
------------------------
He is the last surviving Great from the age when melody was king [
Comment : may be male singers ]. A remarkably modest man, now in his
80s, Prabodh Chandra (Manna) Dey wears his status as legend very
lightly. Despite rendering over 4,000 memorable numbers in many
languages, especially Hindi and Bengali, he never reached the iconic
strata that his fans insist he deserved. But he is a happy man who, in
the twilight of his career, is content to reminisce the sweeping
changes in the world of Indian film music of which he has been an
integral part. In an interview that began in Delhi and ended in his
200-year-old ancestral home, 9 Madan Ghosh Lane, in north Kolkata,
Manna Dey talked with abandon to Chandan Mitra
Chandan Mitra: Many people say you are film world's most under-rated
and under-recognised singers despite being so phenomenally talented.
Does this bother you?
Manna Dey: It used to. I would be very hurt at being overlooked when
it came to singing for the hero. Some music directors, such as Naushad
Sa'ab, never used me, always relying on Rafi for the male voice. As a
result, I never sang for Dilip Kumar. In my days of struggle, some
producers were positively indecent. I will tell you two incidents to
explain what I have undergone and how God has been on my side.
Bharat Bhushan was a big hero in the 1950s, especially after his Baiju
Bawra became a major hit. His brother Shashi Bhushan decided to
produce Basant Bahar and hired Shankar-Jaikishan to score the music.
Shankar was my mentor in the film world and always pushed my case
especially if the tunes were classical-based or very fast. They had
composed Sur na saje, a really beautiful number. Rehearsals were
complete and we were about to record when Shashi Bhushan heard I was
to sing it. He said, 'Nothing doing, get Rafi'. Shankar argued but the
producer would not listen. I was feeling very humiliated when Bharat
Bhushan walked in. He heard the debate and finally said, 'Let Manna
sing now. We will see what to do later.' As you know, the song became
a very big hit. At stage shows, I am requested to sing it even now.
Another time, we were about to record Yeh raat bheegi bheegi for the
Raj Kapoor-Nargis starrer, Chori Chori. It was a South Indian
production by AVM, which was owned by some Chettiar. He had just flown
into Mumbai that day and drove straight to the studio to see the
recording. As he entered, he yelled, 'I don't see Mukesh. Where is
Mukesh?' Shankar told him, 'You don't see Mukesh because Manna Dey is
singing this number'. Chettiar was very angry. 'Cancel the recording,'
he ordered, turned to me and said, 'You go home'. At that point Raj
Sa'ab really got annoyed. He told Chettiar, 'Manna and Manna alone
will sing this number whether you like it or not.' Few people dared to
talk to a big producer like that, but then, few producers had the guts
to disobey Raj Kapoor. Reluctantly, Chettiar had to allow the
recording to proceed. When I finished, the same Chettiar (he was quite
fat) grabbed me and wouldn't release me from his hug!
But you are right. I never got what I fully deserved. You see I was
born into a very proud family. We had no ego but we were proud of our
talent. So, I couldn't do the rounds of producers and music directors'
homes, get into Mumbai's sharabi-kababi culture, or sit in the durbars
of big heroes. Most struggling singers have to do that even now. I was
a struggling singer in my early years in Mumbai and, thereafter, when
I did gain acceptance, I got somewhat typecast. Only a few music
directors would experiment with me as the hero's voice. But I don't
grudge anybody anything. I have sung my heart out, I have got people's
love in return, I love to sing even now; I have led a contented life.
What more can a person ask for? I am very happy the way I am.
CM: How did you get into singing in the first place?
MD: Honestly, I didn't know singing till Kaka (paternal uncle KC Dey,
legendary singer who, along with Raichand Boral, pioneered the art of
film music in India even before KL Saigal) chose me. We were a joint
family, all of us lived under one roof and I had many brothers and
sisters. Now, I don't really know why Kaka selected me from this lot
to be his disciple. Till I finished graduation from Kolkata University
in 1941, he never encouraged me to take interest in music. But as soon
as I graduated, he began training me. My God! What rigorous training
he made me undergo for years. He was himself a very disciplined man
and his training was as rigid. Actually, he made no compromises about
professional matters and was extremely rigid about his values too. He
would always say don't desire what you don't deserve.
CM: Are you saying that till you were in your early 20s, you had no
musical training at all? How then did you know whether you would make
a good singer?
MD: I didn't know anything. I did what Kaka asked me to. It is all
destiny. Many people don't know, Kaka's musical genius blossomed only
after he became blind at the age of 13. I was told by my elders that
only after that tragedy did he suddenly develop an urge to learn music
and the family woke up to his phenomenal ability. His fame spread
rapidly and Harendra Nath Sil, one of Kolkata'a biggest zamindars of
the time, adopted him. I believe a phaeton (horse-drawn carriage) used
to be sent from the Sil estate close to Rabindra Nath Tagore's family
house at Jorasanko, every day at 9 am. After a whole day of training
and singing to invited audiences at the zamindar's house, Kaka would
be dropped home only by 9 pm. Imagine, what a gruelling life it must
have been for a teenager. But he became so famous so quickly that his
name was a household word in Kolkata. By the age of 18, he was a
sensation. That time, this city was the hub of India's film industry.
New theatres and companies like that were booming. So, Kaka got picked
up by the film world.
CM: Do you remember the first number you sang for a film?
MD: Of course, how can one forget? It was for a film called Ram Rajya
made by Prakash Pictures. I had moved to Mumbai and music director
Shankar Rao Vyas liked me as a struggling artiste. The song was
recorded in both Hindi and Marathi as the film had two versions. Those
days, the singer's name never appeared on the record. Instead the name
of the character in the film who lipped the song was put on the
credits. So my name is not there on my first ever record!
CM: What were the recording sessions like in the 1940s?
MD: Oh, they were very tedious and long-drawn. We had to rehearse for
hours. There were only two mikes for recording both voice and
instruments. Also sound-proofing was poor, so recordings usually
happened late at night to minimise outside sounds. When new technology
came, it brought a lot of changes. Microphones became very sensitive
and captured every movement of the voice. Some singers suffered
because of this technology. For example, my friend Talat Mahmood's
career was over once recording systems changed.
Voice modulation was his biggest asset but in the new, sensitive
technology, the trembling of his voice got highly exaggerated and did
not sound good any more. So music directors discarded him. Let me tell
you, even Mohammad Rafi was initially shaken by the new technology
when it came in the 60s. But he worked hard to adjust to it.
CM: How did you get selected by Raj Kapoor as his alternate voice?
MD: It was all thanks to Shankar who knew me and appreciated my
versatility. He came like a dhruvtara into my life and moulded my
career. But I was surprised myself when he chose me to sing for Boot
Polish...
CM: But you gave your voice earlier in Awara for the dream sequence,
Ghar aaya mera pardesi in which you sang the second half, Yeh nehi
hai, yeh nehi hai, yeh nehi hai zindagi...
MD: Oh, could be. I don't exactly remember the sequence. May be you
are right. But my big break was Boot Polish followed by Shree 420
where Shankar gave me really good numbers. Raj Kapoor's songs were in
two categories - Mukesh and non-Mukesh. I was selected for most
non-Mukesh numbers.
CM: What was the last number you sang in films?
MD: I remember that distinctly: Hamari mutthi mein aakash sara for
Prahar (starts humming it). Nana Patekar virtually sat on dharna at my
house insisting 'Dada, you must sing this'. I kept saying I had given
up film songs. He wouldn't listen. Then Laxmi, of the
Laxmikant-Pyarelal duo, who used to stay in Juhu-Parle where I also
lived, came over and pressed me very hard. I agreed.
CM: Why did you never get into composing music?
MD: I believed it was not my line. Kaka composed many tunes although
he had no Western classical training. But somehow, I never thought of
getting into music direction in a big way. I have worked closely with
top music directors of my time. They would be engrossed in composing.
I have seen Shankar-Jaikishan preoccupied from morning till night
thinking up tunes. Sachin Karta (SD Burman) always looked lost to the
world because he was obsessed with composing melodies. It is difficult
to combine composition with rendition. Only a few people like Hemanta
(Mukherjee) could do it.
CM: But I remember you have composed some haunting melodies like Meri
bhi ek Mumtaz thi and Sawan ki rimjhim mein thirak thirak nachey,
apart from Bengali numbers like Lalita okey aaj choley jetey bolo
na...
MD: My God, you are a real fan of mine! How do you remember these
songs? Yes, I have composed many non-film numbers on poems written by
people like Madhukar Rajasthani. But in the non-filmi category, you
aren't into competition, you don't become part of the rat race. In
Bengali, I similarly gave music to several non-film, Puja numbers.
These were more for personal satisfaction than commercial intention.
CM: You just mentioned SD Burman, but you have sung great numbers for
his son too. What was working with RD like?
MD: He was just too creative, too talented. He lived, dreamed and
breathed music. He wanted rhythmic sounds interspersed in his songs
and wanted me to do that. But I would tell him that he was very good
doing 'ha-aha-ha-aha-ha' in the interludes. That's how he started and
made that his trademark! People used to say he lifted Western tunes.
That's not true. He only used them for inspiration. That way even his
father adapted and even directly lifted Rabindra Sangeet and folk. I
remember a funny incident when Sachin Karta read an interview of
Pancham in which he claimed partial credit for composing Roop tera
mastana (Aradhana). I happened to be there and Sachinda was very
angry. He called Pancham and demanded an explanation saying that the
basic tune was borrowed from a folk tune of Comilla in East Bengal and
how dare anybody claim credit for composing it! Pancham stood
sheepishly, without uttering a word! By the way, Sachin Karta was a
great football freak, a staunch supporter of East Bengal Club. He
would drag me to watch football matches in Mumbai. On many Sundays we
would travel from Goregaon to Cooperage in a local train to see a
football match. In pre-television days you were not even recognised.
CM: You belong to a generation that produced the greatest male singers
of our age. Who was the most talented of the lot?
MD: Undoubtedly Kishore. He was simply fantastic, especially
considering he had no formal training in music. He was also a very
colourful personality, always laughing and making others laugh. Of
course, unlike us, he was very money-minded which was perhaps a good
thing because those days, singers were often shortchanged. It is said
he would walk out of a recording halfway if the money wasn't paid. He
had a driver called Abdul who would be sent off to the producer's
house to collect the fee in case it had not been paid in advance.
Kishore would start singing but his expression would change according
to the sign Abdul made from across the glass partition of the
recording studio. He would beam if Abdul indicated in the positive, or
make an excuse and stop midway if the indication was negative! But his
singing was just marvellous. I remember just staring at him almost to
the point of losing my cue while recording Yeh dosti for Sholay. He
was simply mesmerising.
CM: I read somewhere you were unhappy at the recording of the Padosan
duet Ek chatur naar because you had to render the funny parts and lose
the contest to Kishore...
MD: What rubbish! There never was any difference between Kishore and
me. I sang that song very happily and it was a really entertaining
recording. In any case, I was quite reconciled to being Mehmood's
voice and sing funny numbers. In fact, I have always revelled in
versatility. I didn't mind singing Mere bhains ko danda kyon mara for
Shammi Kapoor in Pagla Kahin Ka.
CM: Getting back to singers of your time, how would you rate their
abilities?
MD: Although I was closest to Talat Mahmood among the singers and felt
sorry he destroyed himself by trying to become an actor, I believe
Kishore was the best, followed by Rafi and Hemanta. Of them, Kishore
and Hemanta had God-gifted voices. Rafi was a mix of a good voice and
training. I honestly don't place myself in the same category because
mine is a trained voice. I have no hesitation in saying they were
better than me.
CM: You have always emphasised phonetics, perfected various accents
and sung in many languages. Did you train for that too?
MD: Of course. Before I attempted to sing qawwalis and ghazals, I
seriously studied Urdu and Farsi. One Sayyid Sa'ab was engaged by Kaka
to teach me Urdu. I have probably sung the maximum number of qawwalis
in films, although most people remember only Na toh karvaan ki talaash
hai from Barsaat Ki Raat. I was a great fan of Mir and Ghalib and
memorised many ghazals (recites one of his favourites in perfect
diction). Some of their ghazals conveyed extraordinarily powerful
thoughts in a very simple way. I often got Bengali lyricists like
Pulak Bandopadhyay to translate these ideas into Bengali songs.
CM: You have sung many romantic duets with Lata Mangeshkar. What was
your equation with her?
MD: Excellent, I never had any problem. She was a kid when I was
already an established singer. I distinctly remember reaching Bombay
Talkies for a recording for Anilda (Biswas) and noticing a small, dark
girl in ponytails sitting on a bench. Anilda said 'Manna, have you
heard this little girl sing? She is Dina Nath Mangeshkar's daughter'.
Then, turning to her he said, 'Lata inko ek gaana suna do'.
Immediately, she burst into a classical number. Her voice was truly
mellifluous, even though at that stage it was not fully trained. I
remember telling Anilda, she was a prodigy. Lata really struggled hard
to rise in the cruel world of filmdom. That's why when people say rude
things about the Mangeshkar monopoly, I get angry. Both Asha, who is
an equally talented singer, and she had to work very hard to secure
their place and what do you expect: They should give up everything
just like that?
CM: How do you see the present times? Do you think there is any talent
in the present crop?
MD: Of course there is. May be music directors today don't have a
niche like say Madan Mohan, Roshan or C Ramchandra, but that doesn't
mean they are not talented. That reminds me of an incident. I had
recorded a song, which entailed coughing in between verses. C
Ramchandra happened to pass by and heard that. Past midnight, when we
were sleeping, the doorbell rang. We aren't late night people and my
wife was worried. I gingerly opened the door to find C Ramchandra
standing outside. He simply said, 'Manna, aaj kya khaansa tumne. Mazaa
aa gaya,' and left! You don't get characters like that these days.
But it is not a question of talent, then and now. What has happened is
that commercialism has taken over and so there is nobody legendary any
more. Rajesh (Roshan) has a lot of creativity. And I find Anu Malik
has a talaash in him, he tries hard to create good music. Also AR
Rahman is very talented. He may not know much music, which is why his
tunes get repetitive, but his command over orchestration is
sensational. I really liked the way he blended classical and folk in
Lagaan.
CM: And what about the singers?
MD: Well, I will always be partial to Kavita (Krishnamurthy) because I
have groomed her...
CM: Isn't she your relative?
MD: No, no, many people make the same mistake. She is a Tamilian, my
wife is a Malayali. Kavita's father was a diplomat. One day, he came
to our house with her and said, 'She wants to learn from you'. I said,
'Sorry, I don't teach'. But they were adamant. My wife liked Kavita
very much and persuaded me to make an exception. That's how it all
began. For 20 years, Kavita accompanied me to every concert at home
and abroad. She has a bold, forthright voice, which is why she can do
numbers like Hawa Hawai with such ease. I think she is a terrific
singer. But these two new girls, Sunidhi Chauhan and Shreya Ghoshal,
are very good too. Among the men, I like Udit Narayan and Sonu Nigam.
CM: Finally, tell me some of your favourite songs, those you would
like succeeding generations to remember...
MD: My favourites are only romantic or soulful numbers although I am a
great believer in versatility. I am glad I have sung O meri maina
(Pyar Kiye Jaa) to Laga chunri mein daag. I loved the soulful Aami je
jalsagharer for the Bengali film Anthony Feringhee which gave my
Bengali career a big fillip and then went on to sing the comic number
Ami agantuk in Shankhabela. In that film, I had a duet with Lata, Kay
pratham kachhe eshechhi which I rate among my favourites. In Hindi, I
think some of my best numbers were Tum gagan ke chandrama ho, Sur na
saje, Pyar hua iqraar hua, Yeh raat bheegi-bheegi, Tum bin jeevan
kaisa jeevan, Na jaane kahan tum thay, Re man sur mein gaa... The
count can go on. But I believe whatever I sang, I sang with sincerity
and commitment. My greatest reward is people still want to hear me and
come for my concerts. My daughter had persuaded me to migrate to
California, I went there but felt cut off from my music. I told my
wife I would die the day music was taken away from me. So we came
back. I have led a contented life and desire nothing more than
people's admiration, which I have got in abundance. See you have come
all the way to interview me. What more can a singer want except
recognition and love?
-------
Also at :
http://sify.com/movies/bollywood/interview.php?id=13525010&cid=2398
t u s e n e t @yahoo.com Loony Tunes
"kcp" <kcpi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:aad5e896.04072...@posting.google.com...
Some items that brought out a smile keeping in mind the discussions at RMIM
> Manna Dey: It used to. I would be very hurt at being overlooked when
> it came to singing for the hero. Some music directors, such as Naushad
> Sa'ab, never used me, always relying on Rafi for the male voice.
> some producers were positively indecent.
> Shashi Bhushan heard I was
> to sing it. He said, 'Nothing doing, get Rafi'.
>
> As he entered, he yelled, 'I don't see Mukesh. Where is
> Mukesh?' Shankar told him, 'You don't see Mukesh because Manna Dey is
> singing this number'. Chettiar was very angry. 'Cancel the recording,'
> So, I couldn't do the rounds of producers and music directors'
> homes, get into Mumbai's sharabi-kababi culture, or sit in the durbars
> of big heroes. Most struggling singers have to do that even now.
> Some singers suffered
> because of this technology. For example, my friend Talat Mahmood's
> career was over once recording systems changed.
I didnt know this is what affected Talat's career, was quite surprised by
this.
> Let me tell
> you, even Mohammad Rafi was initially shaken by the new technology
> when it came in the 60s. But he worked hard to adjust to it.
Wow..this must have been some phenomenon.
> CM: You just mentioned SD Burman, but you have sung great numbers for
> his son too. What was working with RD like?
>
> MD: He was just too creative, too talented. He lived, dreamed and
> breathed music. He wanted rhythmic sounds interspersed in his songs
> and wanted me to do that. But I would tell him that he was very good
> doing 'ha-aha-ha-aha-ha' in the interludes. That's how he started and
> made that his trademark! People used to say he lifted Western tunes.
> That's not true. He only used them for inspiration. That way even his
> father adapted and even directly lifted Rabindra Sangeet and folk. I
> CM: You belong to a generation that produced the greatest male singers
> of our age. Who was the most talented of the lot?
> MD: Undoubtedly Kishore. He was simply fantastic, especially
> considering he had no formal training in music. He was also a very
> colourful personality, always laughing and making others laugh. Of
> course, unlike us, he was very money-minded which was perhaps a good
> thing because those days, singers were often shortchanged. It is said
> he would walk out of a recording halfway if the money wasn't paid.
> CM: Getting back to singers of your time, how would you rate their
> abilities?
> MD: Although I was closest to Talat Mahmood among the singers and felt
> sorry he destroyed himself by trying to become an actor, I believe
> Kishore was the best, followed by Rafi and Hemanta. Of them, Kishore
> and Hemanta had God-gifted voices. Rafi was a mix of a good voice and
> training.
Some revelation...this one.
Surjit Singh
Loony Tunes wrote:
> "kcp" <kcpi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:aad5e896.04072...@posting.google.com...
>
> Some items that brought out a smile keeping in mind the discussions at RMIM
>
>
>>Manna Dey: It used to. I would be very hurt at being overlooked when
>>it came to singing for the hero. Some music directors, such as Naushad
>>Sa'ab, never used me, always relying on Rafi for the male voice.
>
>
>>some producers were positively indecent.
>
>
>>Shashi Bhushan heard I was
>>to sing it. He said, 'Nothing doing, get Rafi'.
>>
>>As he entered, he yelled, 'I don't see Mukesh. Where is
>>Mukesh?' Shankar told him, 'You don't see Mukesh because Manna Dey is
>>singing this number'. Chettiar was very angry. 'Cancel the recording,'
>
>
>>So, I couldn't do the rounds of producers and music directors'
>>homes, get into Mumbai's sharabi-kababi culture, or sit in the durbars
>>of big heroes. Most struggling singers have to do that even now.
>
>
>>Some singers suffered
>>because of this technology. For example, my friend Talat Mahmood's
>>career was over once recording systems changed.
>
>
> I didnt know this is what affected Talat's career, was quite surprised by
> this.
I wonder if there are any songs where this starts to show up. Of course,
Ashok hears this in all Talat songs.
--
Surjit Singh, a diehard movie fan(atic), period.
Visit my home page at
http://hindi-movies-songs.com/index.html
BHAGWANTSAGOO
>ubject: Re: A lovely interview by Manna Dey
>From: Surjit Singh surjit...@yahoo.com
>Date: 20/07/2004 18:42 GMT Daylight Time
>Message-id: <2m53svF...@uni-berlin.de>
>
>
>
>Loony Tunes wrote:
>> "kcp" <kcpi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:aad5e896.04072...@posting.google.com...
>>
>> Some items that brought out a smile keeping in mind the discussions at RMIM
>>
>>
>>>Manna Dey: It used to. I would be very hurt at being overlooked when
>>>it came to singing for the hero. Some music directors, such as Naushad
>>>Sa'ab, never used me, always relying on Rafi for the male voice.
>>
>>
>>>some producers were positively indecent.
>>
>>
>>>Shashi Bhushan heard I was
>>>to sing it. He said, 'Nothing doing, get Rafi'.
>>>
>>>As he entered, he yelled, 'I don't see Mukesh. Where is
>>>Mukesh?' Shankar told him, 'You don't see Mukesh because Manna Dey is
>>>singing this number'. Chettiar was very angry. 'Cancel the recording,'
>>
>>
>>>So, I couldn't do the rounds of producers and music directors'
>>>homes, get into Mumbai's sharabi-kababi culture, or sit in the durbars
>>>of big heroes. Most struggling singers have to do that even now.
>>
>>
>>>Some singers suffered
>>>because of this technology. For example, my friend Talat Mahmood's
>>>career was over once recording systems changed.
>>
>>
>> I didnt know this is what affected Talat's career, was quite surprised by
>> this.
>
>I wonder if there are any songs where this starts to show up. Of course,
>Ashok hears this in all Talat songs.
>
I've never heard new technology being a reason for Talat's demise. Mostly it
was his failed attempt at being a hero. However I do think his duet with Rafi
in Aadmi places his voice at a distinct "tremulous" disadvantage. This could
also have been due to the fact that he was totally wrong for the song. Mahendra
Kapoor ended up in the film version of the song.
Bhagwant
Afzal A. Khan
This reason is often cited for the decline and oblivion
that Talat Mehmood went through. But I seriously doubt
that he wanted to pursue an acting career of his own
volition. It would be truer to say that others (for their
own reasons) persuaded him to act in films. From the
accounts I have read (interviews with his co-stars etc.),
it seems he was quite a shy person, not the filmi type, and
was very much ill-at-ease in romantic scenes.
His decline as a singer was probably due to his very limited
range and inability to sing the types of songs that were
being composed in increasing numbers from the mid-fifties
onwards. For classical (raag-based) songs, Rafi and
Manna Dey were preferred. Talat could hardly be expected
to sing for Johnny Walker. Even then, composers like SJ
and Salil still reposed their faith in Talat for quite some -
time.
Afzal
vidh...@gmail.com
Thanks.