A quiz for GHazal fans
Archana
In article <5ukoer$7...@drn.zippo.com>, ava...@hotmail.com says...
>
>Hello,
>
>Sorry if this does not belong to this newsgroup.
>I have put together a very small quiz related to GHazals.
>
>If you are interested in GHazals you may wish to have a
>look at it. To read the quiz, please point your browsers to
>
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/LeftBank/4797/quiz.html
>
>Hope you like it !
>
>Thanks,
>
>- Abhay.
>--------------------------------------------------------------
>Abhay Avachat
>ava...@hotmail.com
>http://www.geocities.com/Paris/LeftBank/4797/index.html
How come suddenly ghazals and sher-o-shayari don't belong to RMIM? Haven't they
been a part of this NG for a real long time?
-Archana
Abhay Avachat
Let me try to answer both Yogesh and Archana here.
In article <5ul3l0$i...@drn.zippo.com>, Archana says...
>How come suddenly ghazals and sher-o-shayari don't belong to RMIM? Haven't they
>been a part of this NG for a real long time?
GHazal and poetry definitely belongs to RMIM ... AS LONG AS ... it clearly
pertains to the poetry which is tuned and sung etc. This is my interpretation
of the RMIM charter. (No I am not a lawyer and nor is the charter any
constitution. And thank God for both the things :-) :-))
Specifically, RMIM is NOT a group for posting one's own poetry.
This quiz would generate such original poetry. Hence discussion about
the entries in this quiz does not belong here. But I presume, just an
informative post about start and end of a quiz would not be too much
of a problem. Hope I presume right. (The "Sorry if it does not belong
here ..." stuff was added as I was cross-posting to various groups).
Secondly, I do not know why Ek Mitra decided not to post GHazal related
discussions here. In fact I encouraged him to post here and at the same
time reminded not to stray away from music. We can as much discuss the
poetry of GHalib as much as Begum Akhtar's rendition of it. I do not remember
anyone opposing this in the past, nor do I think anyone would do that. RMIM
has in general shown tremendous interest in poetry. Even when people don't
post, they do like to read about it. (That's my perception from the responses
I have got).
In a nutshell, poems and poetry (be it Ghazal, bhajan, qawwali or anything)
can very much be a part of discussion as long as the poem has been tuned
to make a song. That's my view at least.
- Abhay.
Just my 2 cents.
Unknown
Thanks Abhay, for the clarification.
Personally speaking, I would hate to see ghazals and Urdu poetry being banished
from RMIM. I agree that RMIM may not be the right forum for original poetry but
as for the others......well, RMIM is an ideal forum. I am sure there are a large
number of RMIMers who love ghazals and Urdu poetry as much as film songs/music.
I am one of them.
ALUP (alt.language.urdu.poetry) is a little intimidating to newcomers like me
whose knowledge of Urdu poetry is very little. RMIM also provides an ideal
platform for linking Urdu poetry to film music as so many of the well-known
poets have been, and are closely linked to the film world.
I would love to see more posts/discussions on ghazals and perhaps even quizzes
based on ghazals. Maybe we shall see the revival of ASAD? Or maybe a new series?
Looking forward to a more lyrics oriented RMIM :-))) Yes, I am enjoying the
GEETanjali series :-)
Keep smiling
Nita
zamaane bhar ke Gam yaa.N ek teraa Gam
ye Gam hogaa to kitne Gam na ho.nge
Hafeez Qureshi in "mohabbat karnevaale kam na ho.nge....."
Nitin Sharma
nawat...@hotmail.com (Nita) wrote:
: Personally speaking, I would hate to see ghazals and Urdu poetry being banished
: from RMIM. I agree that RMIM may not be the right forum for original poetry but
: as for the others......well, RMIM is an ideal forum. I am sure there are a large
: number of RMIMers who love ghazals and Urdu poetry as much as film songs/music.
: I am one of them.
As a general rule, the argument that "many people who read newsgroup X
would also be interested in topic Y even tho' it is beyond X's charter"
is a bad one on usenet.
The whole idea is that people flock to a newsgroup because they are
interested in a particular set of topics and it is unfair to them if
they have to wade thru' dozens of unrelated posts.
I've a suspicion that most people who read rmim are indians, and so
might be interested in the latest corruption scandals back home. But
that doesn't mean I can start posting Laloo-chaalisa and Rabari-puraan
on rmim! :-)
Fortunately, people here are large-hearted and usually are charitable
towards minor transgressions of the charter (eg my post on Sahir).
: ALUP (alt.language.urdu.poetry) is a little intimidating to newcomers like me
Yeah too sad.. An acceptable way out, as Abhay suggested is to mix
music with poetry in your posts..
-nitin
kashif
i would like to clarify that ALUP [ alt.language.urdu.poetry] is not at
all intimadating, in fact it is a great forum to read masterpieces of
urdu poetries of all urdu poets.
everybody at all knowledge of urdu are welcome at ALUP
see you there
kashif
Hema
Nitin Sharma wrote:
> nawat...@hotmail.com (Nita) wrote:
>
> : Personally speaking, I would hate to see ghazals and Urdu poetry being banished
> : from RMIM. I agree that RMIM may not be the right forum for original poetry but
> : as for the others......well, RMIM is an ideal forum. I am sure there are a large
> : number of RMIMers who love ghazals and Urdu poetry as much as film songs/music.
> : I am one of them.
>
> As a general rule, the argument that "many people who read newsgroup X
> would also be interested in topic Y even tho' it is beyond X's charter"
> is a bad one on usenet.
>
> The whole idea is that people flock to a newsgroup because they are
> interested in a particular set of topics and it is unfair to them if
> they have to wade thru' dozens of unrelated posts.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I agree with Nitin on this. Although there are many RMIMers who are
interested in ghazals or rather Urdu poetry, not every RMIMer cares
about them. My inference is based on the posts on any kind of ghazal
related thread. I don't know how these newsgroups came into existence,
but I guess right from the beginning, classical music was set aside as a
separate NG matter and the rest was kind of mixed into the "misc"
category. IMO, there seems to be a need for further classification. It
could be a good idea if there was a separate NG for ghazals because by
no means ghazal is a little entity to be included in "miscellaneous". It
is vast enough to deserve an entire NG rather than being dumped into
miscellaneous. If such a NG comes into being, it is possible that it may
attract new followers who are interested in ghazals, but are not active
on RMIM. As for now, I don't see any harm in discussing ghazals on this
NG.
Hema.
Nitin Sharma
Hema (hnk...@pitt.edu) wrote:
:
: category. IMO, there seems to be a need for further classification. It
: could be a good idea if there was a separate NG for ghazals because by
: no means ghazal is a little entity to be included in "miscellaneous". It
: is vast enough to deserve an entire NG rather than being dumped into
: miscellaneous. If such a NG comes into being, it is possible that it may
Some of the posts have mentioned that such a group already
exists - alt.language.urdu.poetry
-nitin
U.V. Ravindra
Hmm ... time to switch to "History Channel"... :-)
What I am saying here is hearsay, so I need corroboration from
witnesses ... I heard this at the Rockies' Meet.
When the rec.music.indian.* newsgroups were being formed, it was
not TWO but three groups that were voted on: RMIC, RMIM and RMIF.
The last mentioned, Rec.Music.Indian.FILM :) failed by several votes.
Evidently, the original charter of the RMIM contained statements
like "to cater to discussions of Indian music NOT related to Films",
etc.
Anyways, RMIF never saw the light of day, and RMIM became a kind of
a mish-mash of film and non-film, non-classical music. Therefore,
although today RMIM is predominantly film-oriented in its musical
taste, all manner of Ghazals, filmi or non-filmi should be acceptable,
as long as they satisfy the "rec.MUSIC.indian." characteristics.
Alt.Language.Urdu.Poetry provides for "literary" discussion on Ghazals
and other forms of Urdu Poetry. Netters' own poems are also welcome
to be put up for discussion there (not so on RMIM). However, the
"music" aspect is either absent or is very subdued in the discussions
on ALUP.
With that, we switch back out of the History Channel... :-)
Before I wind up, let me make this discussion more r.MUSIC.i.m
relevant -- sometime ago there was a discussion on the "most tuned
Ghazal". I have heard recordings of Momin's 'woh jo ham meiN tum
meiN qaraar thaa' sung by
1. Begum Akhtar
2. Chitra Singh
3. Ghulam Ali
4. Mehdi Hassan
5. Nayyara Noor
6. Pankaj Udhas (music by Khayyam, that's why I have this :-)
And I know of at least one recording by Habib Wali Mohd. and one by
Farida Khanum of this Ghazal. I think this one gives Ghalib's
'yeh na thi hamaari qismat' a good run for it's money.
How many versions of 'patta patta booTa booTa' are known? I have
heard Mehdi Hassan, Ghulam Ali and Jagjit Singh with it. There
seems to be a film version (who sang it?) ... any more?
--
Ravindra.
Ghazal ki baat chali, haath meiN qalam le lo
zamaana aa hi gayaa phir se KhooN bahaane kaa
U.V. Ravindra
Sanjeev Kumar
Hemlata N Khemani wrote:
>
> In article <5v1c11$7...@drn.zippo.com>, nawat...@hotmail.com <Nita> wrote:
> >
> >>How many versions of 'patta patta booTa booTa' are known? I have
> >>heard Mehdi Hassan, Ghulam Ali and Jagjit Singh with it. There
> >>seems to be a film version (who sang it?) ... any more?
> >
> >AFAIK the song has been sung by Lata (or is a Lata-Rafi duet?) from either Ek
> >Nazar or Bansi Birju - both are Amitabh-Jaya films which flopped pretty badly. I
> >always get them mixed up. :-)
>
This song is from "Ek Nazar" and is a Rafi-Lata Duet. This is an
unusual Amitabh (and JayaB) movie. Pretty boring, too.
Sanjeev
Arun Verma
In article <5v1c11$7...@drn.zippo.com>, nawat...@hotmail.com <Nita> wrote:
>>How many versions of 'patta patta booTa booTa' are known? I have
>>heard Mehdi Hassan, Ghulam Ali and Jagjit Singh with it. There
>>seems to be a film version (who sang it?) ... any more?
>
>AFAIK the song has been sung by Lata (or is a Lata-Rafi duet?) from either Ek
>Nazar or Bansi Birju - both are Amitabh-Jaya films which flopped pretty badly. I
>always get them mixed up. :-)
>
Its a Rafi-Lata duet from Ek Nazar (MD : LaxmiPyare).
Arun
Unknown
>How many versions of 'patta patta booTa booTa' are known? I have
>heard Mehdi Hassan, Ghulam Ali and Jagjit Singh with it. There
>seems to be a film version (who sang it?) ... any more?
AFAIK the song has been sung by Lata (or is a Lata-Rafi duet?) from either Ek
Nazar or Bansi Birju - both are Amitabh-Jaya films which flopped pretty badly. I
always get them mixed up. :-)
BTW, there is another Lata song probably from Ek Nazar (or is it Bansi Birju?)
ham hi kare.n koyii surat unhe.n bulaane kii
sunaa hai unko to aadat hai bhuul jaane kii
Does anybody have the lyrics/name of lyricist for this song?
> Ghazal ki baat chali, haath meiN qalam le lo
> zamaana aa hi gayaa phir se KhooN bahaane kaa
Ghazal rudaad hai naakaamiyon ki,
Ghazal mehrumiyon ki daastaan hai
Ghazal riste hue zakhmon ka marham,
Ghazal ek chaaraa-e-dard-e-nihaan hai
Ghazal ka husn hi hai, husn-e-aalam,
Ghazal ka noor hi, noor-e-jahan hai
- 'Hayaat'
Keep smiling
Nita
Unknown
In article , Hema says...
>I agree with Nitin on this. Although there are many RMIMers who are
>interested in ghazals or rather Urdu poetry, not every RMIMer cares
>about them. My inference is based on the posts on any kind of ghazal
[deleted]
Hema, I do agree that not everybody likes every topic being discussed on RMIM.
If there are some people on who have no interest in ghazals and urdu poetry,
there are also people who have no interest in Marathi songs or Tamil or Telegu
songs or Gujarati songs or Bengali songs but we do discuss them on RMIM, don't
we? :-) We just ignore the posts that seem to hold no interest for us. Ay least
I do so.
That's the way it is. :-))
Keep smiling
Nita
maikhane ki baat na kar waaiz mujhse
aana jaana tera bhi haiN mera bhi
- Shaahid Kabir
Hemlata N Khemani
>>heard Mehdi Hassan, Ghulam Ali and Jagjit Singh with it. There
>>seems to be a film version (who sang it?) ... any more?
>
>AFAIK the song has been sung by Lata (or is a Lata-Rafi duet?) from either Ek
>Nazar or Bansi Birju - both are Amitabh-Jaya films which flopped pretty badly. I
>always get them mixed up. :-)
The song in question is sung by Anuradha Paudwal, early in her career for
a movie called Ek_something. I think the heroine was Deepti Naval. It
was a nice "late night" movie that I had somehow managed to see some n
years ago.:)
Hema.
p.s BTW, I am assuming the song to be patta patta boota boota haal hamara
jaane hai, right?
--
Archana
In article <5v1c11$7...@drn.zippo.com>, Nita says...
>
>>How many versions of 'patta patta booTa booTa' are known? I have
>>heard Mehdi Hassan, Ghulam Ali and Jagjit Singh with it. There
>>seems to be a film version (who sang it?) ... any more?
>
>AFAIK the song has been sung by Lata (or is a Lata-Rafi duet?) from either Ek
>Nazar or Bansi Birju - both are Amitabh-Jaya films which flopped pretty badly. I
>always get them mixed up. :-)
Its Ek Nazar
>
>BTW, there is another Lata song probably from Ek Nazar (or is it Bansi Birju?)
>
>ham hi kare.n koyii surat unhe.n bulaane kii
>sunaa hai unko to aadat hai bhuul jaane kii
Again its Ek Nazar
-Archana
Unknown
>
>The song in question is sung by Anuradha Paudwal, early in her career for
>a movie called Ek_something. I think the heroine was Deepti Naval. It
>was a nice "late night" movie that I had somehow managed to see some n
>years ago.:)
[deleted]
>p.s BTW, I am assuming the song to be patta patta boota boota haal hamara
>jaane hai, right?
The song pattaa pattaa booTaa booTaa ..... is the song i n question but I was
thinking of the Lata number in Ek Nazar as pointed out by Archana. I thinkthe
song picturised on Deepti Naval and sung by Anuradha Paudwal is ..."ye paudhe,
ye pattte, ye phool ye ???.....mujhko bulaaye,......man kahe main gaaooN....." I
think this is a duet with Bhupinder. The name of the movie eludes me right now.
Vandana Vidwans
Hemlata N Khemani wrote:
>
> In article <5v1c11$7...@drn.zippo.com>, nawat...@hotmail.com <Nita> wrote:
> >
> >>heard Mehdi Hassan, Ghulam Ali and Jagjit Singh with it. There
> >>seems to be a film version (who sang it?) ... any more?
> >
> >AFAIK the song has been sung by Lata (or is a Lata-Rafi duet?) from either Ek
> >Nazar or Bansi Birju - both are Amitabh-Jaya films which flopped pretty badly. I
> >always get them mixed up. :-)
>
> a movie called Ek_something. I think the heroine was Deepti Naval. It
> was a nice "late night" movie that I had somehow managed to see some n
> years ago.:)
>
movie : Ek NAZAR
cast : Jaya , Amitabha
> p.s BTW, I am assuming the song to be patta patta boota boota haal hamara
> jaane hai, right?
--
Hema
nawat...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> In article , Hema says...
>
> >I agree with Nitin on this. Although there are many RMIMers who are
> >interested in ghazals or rather Urdu poetry, not every RMIMer cares
> >about them. My inference is based on the posts on any kind of ghazal
>
> [deleted]
>
> Hema, I do agree that not everybody likes every topic being discussed on RMIM.
> If there are some people on who have no interest in ghazals and urdu poetry,
> there are also people who have no interest in Marathi songs or Tamil or Telegu
> songs or Gujarati songs or Bengali songs but we do discuss them on RMIM, don't
> we? :-) We just ignore the posts that seem to hold no interest for us. Ay least
> I do so.
Well, I did say that I don't see any harm in discussing ghazals on RMIM
although it is a little bit of inconvenience for those who have to wade
through them. The same holds for other vernacular songs. And as I
suggested for a new NG for ghazals only, I would also like to suggest
NGs for these vernacular songs, marathi atleast, but then I don't know
how many would be interested. I know that atleast I for sure will
benefit from it a lot. So what I mean, in a nutshell, is that can we
live on this NG like a unified India or should we try to fragmentize
RMIM demanding "separate states" for each kind or each language? I
personally don't see any problems in discussing any kind of music on
RMIM, as long as I am interested in music, but there have been questions
if it is proper to discuss ghazals on RMIM, and hence my post meaning
that if people think it is inappropriate then why deprive ghazal lovers
from expressing their thoughts, why should they stop posting or take the
clutches of e-mail, why not create some other channel to vent their
thoughts. If RMIMers start saying take the marathi songs discussion
somewhere else, I would really like to get together all the marathi song
lovers, who would like to discuss marathi music and poetry, and form
another NG, rather than see it die. And I am not in dis-favor of
ghazals. I think I get to learn a lot from these discussions and I
would personally not like to see it disappear. The fact, my dear Nita,
is that although you and I ignore the posts that we are not interested
in, there are some who don't and they also probably care more than we do
about holding an umbrella over the classified definition of RMIM
(whatever it is) and not allow it to get drenched with a downpour of
ghazal discussions.:)
And they are not wrong either.
Hema.
apne gham ko giit banaakar gaa lena
raag puraana tera bhi hai mera bhi
Unknown
Hema, if only people learn to disagree without arousing resentment, the world
would be a happier place:-)) I am definitely against fragmenting RMIM into
vernacular groups...... isn't enough of this happening in India? I am sure we
all can stay on the same NG without jumping down each other's throats. All that
is required is a little patience, a.little tolerance. Live and let live is a
nice motto, right? I would hate to see anyone leave this NG. All of you on RMIM
make up the NG what it is - a place very dear to me. :-))
Enough of the mushy stuff :-) I too think that I get to learn something from the
posts on vernacular songs and I am also interested in Bengali songs so I would
definitely not want all this to go elsewhere. The surprising thing is that if
you ever have a look at the to-have-ghazal-or-not-to-have-ghazal war two years
back, you will find that the war started because RMIM was deluged by posts on
ghazals :-) Just shows how much more enthusiastic ghazal lovers are. Or maybe it
comes from keeping all that "enthu" bottled up :-))
But regardless, I think for the moment, we can stick to the "classified
definition" of RMIM and still enjoy the NG :-)
>And they are not wrong either.
hmm..... so you still think there is too much ghazals on RMIM, heh? :-)) Well
all I can say is that there are enough "tuned" ghazals out there, so look out
:-)))
> apne gham ko giit banaakar gaa lena
> raag puraana tera bhi hai mera bhi
tu mujhko aur maiN tujhko samjhaooN kya
dil deewaana tera bhi haiN mera bhi
Keep smiling
Nita
Hemlata N Khemani
In article <5v28l0$8...@drn.zippo.com>, nawat...@hotmail.com <Nita> wrote:
>
>>And they are not wrong either.
>
>hmm..... so you still think there is too much ghazals on RMIM, heh? :-)) Well
>all I can say is that there are enough "tuned" ghazals out there, so look out
>:-)))
No I don't think so. By "they are not wrong either" I meant that they are
not wrong either in caring more and holding the umbrella(if you
rmember)....I wasn't expressing my own opinion or anything at that
point.:)
Peace.
Hema.
--
sm...@lehigh.edu
In article <5v1c11$7...@drn.zippo.com>, Nita (nawat...@hotmail.com) writes:
>
>>How many versions of 'patta patta booTa booTa' are known? I have
>>heard Mehdi Hassan, Ghulam Ali and Jagjit Singh with it. There
>>seems to be a film version (who sang it?) ... any more?
>
>AFAIK the song has been sung by Lata (or is a Lata-Rafi duet?) from either Ek
>Nazar or Bansi Birju - both are Amitabh-Jaya films which flopped pretty badly.
This song, as many people have already pointed out, is from Ek Nazar. This is
not, however, the same as Mir's original which is a GHazal. Only the first
sher of the original GHazal has been borrowed as the mukhRa of the film song.
The rest is different. I'm sure Mehdi Hassan et al. sing the original and not
the film version.
>ham hi kare.n koyii surat unhe.n bulaane kii
>sunaa hai unko to aadat hai bhuul jaane kii
Thanks for reminding me of this nice song. It's been ages since I heard it
last. Lyrics anyone ?
Sami Mohammed (A Naushad fan)
*****************************************************************************
Lines for the day:
Hum phool hain auron ke lie, laae hain KHushbo
Apne lie le deke bas ek, baaGH mila hai
Sahir in "Ashkon ne jo paaya hai, woh geeton me diya hai...."
*****************************************************************************
>Nita
Sanjeev Kumar
All I gotta say is so "Much ado about NOTHING"
Sanjeev
Unknown
>This song, as many people have already pointed out, is from Ek Nazar. This is
>not, however, the same as Mir's original which is a GHazal. Only the first
>sher of the original GHazal has been borrowed as the mukhRa of the film song.
>The rest is different. I'm sure Mehdi Hassan et al. sing the original and not
>the film version.
Thanks Sami.
Will some kind soul please post the original Ghazal by Meer?
>>ham hi kare.n koyii surat unhe.n bulaane kii
>>sunaa hai unko to aadat hai bhuul jaane kii
>
>Thanks for reminding me of this nice song. It's been ages since I heard it
>last. Lyrics anyone ?
I can post them from memory but I would prefer to have them posted by soemone
who has the song. So let's wait and see.
Keep smiling
Nita
dard-e-dil, paas-e-wafa, jazba-e-imaan honaa
aadmiiat hai yehii, aur yehii insaa.N honaa
- Chakbast
nita_(nawatramani@hotmail.com0
>No I don't think so. By "they are not wrong either" I meant that they are
>not wrong either in caring more and holding the umbrella(if you
>rmember)....I wasn't expressing my own opinion or anything at that
>point.:)
:-( Sorry to have jumped on you like that. Didn't mean to.
>Peace.
Very desirable :-)
tum bhi chalo, hum bhi chale,
chalti rahe zindagi,
na zameen manzil, na aasmaa.N,
zindagi hai zindagi
Keep smiling
Nita
phir kho na jaayeN ham kahiN duniyaa ki bheeD meiN
milti hai paas aane ki mohlat kabhi kabhi
Sahir in "miltii hai zindagii me.n mohabbat kabhii kabhii....."
Vandana Vidwans
nawat...@hotmail.com wrote:
> The song pattaa pattaa booTaa booTaa ..... is the song i n question but I was
> thinking of the Lata number in Ek Nazar as pointed out by Archana. I thinkthe
> song picturised on Deepti Naval and sung by Anuradha Paudwal is ..."ye paudhe,
> ye pattte, ye phool ye ???.....mujhko bulaaye,......man kahe main gaaooN....." I
> think this is a duet with Bhupinder. The name of the movie eludes me right now.
Name of the movie is " EK BAR PHIR
starring Deepti Naval and Suresh Oberoi
Vandana
U.V. Ravindra
> Thanks Sami.
>
> Will some kind soul please post the original Ghazal by Meer?
Nita, neki aur poochh-poochh? :-)) Here goes:
patta patta booTa booTa haal hamaara jaane hai
jaane na jaane gul hi na jaane baaGh to saara jaane hai
chaaragari beemari-e-dil ki rasm-e-shehr-e-husn nahiN
warna dilbar-e-naadaaN bhi is dard kaa chaara jaane hai
mehr-o-wafaa-o-lutf-o-inaayat ek se waaqif in meiN nahiN
aur to sab kuchh tanz-o-kinaaya, ramz-o-ishaara jaane hai
[I *love* this sh'er]
There's one more sh'er in this Ghazal that I'm unable to recall
at this moment. May be someone else can fill it in for you :)
Enjoy!
Ravindra.
Unknown
In article , "U.V. says...
>=> Nita, neki aur poochh-poochh? :-)) Here goes:
>=>
>=> patta patta booTa booTa haal hamaara jaane hai
>=> jaane na jaane gul hi na jaane baaGh to saara jaane hai
>=>
>=> chaaragari beemari-e-dil ki rasm-e-shehr-e-husn nahiN
>=> warna dilbar-e-naadaaN bhi is dard kaa chaara jaane hai
>=>
>=> mehr-o-wafaa-o-lutf-o-inaayat ek se waaqif in meiN nahiN
>=> aur to sab kuchh tanz-o-kinaaya, ramz-o-ishaara jaane hai
Time to show my lack of Urdu knowledge:-( UVR, Abhay, please help!
"tanz-o-kinaayaa"? "ramz-o-ishaara"? I got the import of the first line but
mazaa adhuraa reh gayaa :-((
>=>
>=> [I *love* this sh'er]
>=>
>=> There's one more sh'er in this Ghazal that I'm unable to recall
>=> at this moment. May be someone else can fill it in for you :)
>=>
>=> Enjoy!
>=> Ravindra.
>
>I just remembered it:
> kyA kyA fitne dil par uske laataa hai maashooq apnA
> jis be_dil be_taab-o-tabaaN ko ishq ka maara jaane hai
>
>kya baat hai! :) marte ko aur maarne ki sadistic aadat maashooq
>ko nahiN to phir kis ko hogi? :)
>
>Ravindra.
Kyaa baat hai! mazaa aa gayaa!
If this is "recycling of cliched thoughts", then I am willing to listen to this
all my life :-)))))
Keep smiling
Nita
dil Tootne se thoDi si takleef to huyii
lekin tamaam umr kaa aaraam mil gayaa
- ????
U.V. Ravindra
U.V. Ravindra wrote:
=>
=> > Thanks Sami.
=> >
=> > Will some kind soul please post the original Ghazal by Meer?
=>
=>
=> patta patta booTa booTa haal hamaara jaane hai
=> jaane na jaane gul hi na jaane baaGh to saara jaane hai
=>
=> chaaragari beemari-e-dil ki rasm-e-shehr-e-husn nahiN
=> warna dilbar-e-naadaaN bhi is dard kaa chaara jaane hai
=>
=> mehr-o-wafaa-o-lutf-o-inaayat ek se waaqif in meiN nahiN
=> aur to sab kuchh tanz-o-kinaaya, ramz-o-ishaara jaane hai
U.V. Ravindra
nawat...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> >=> mehr-o-wafaa-o-lutf-o-inaayat ek se waaqif in meiN nahiN
> >=> aur to sab kuchh tanz-o-kinaaya, ramz-o-ishaara jaane hai
>
>
> "tanz-o-kinaayaa"? "ramz-o-ishaara"? I got the import of the first
> line but mazaa adhuraa reh gayaa :-((
It turns out that there are actually 8 ash'aar in this Meer masterpiece.
I'm reproducing the entire Ghazal here, with as much interpretation as
I can provide. Before doing that, however, there's something I'd like
to say in regard to Nita's comment below:
> If this is "recycling of cliched thoughts", then I am willing to
> listen to this all my life :-)))))
It must be borne in mind that all these thoughts are cliches only
today! In the day of Meer, these oft-flogged metaphors were not only
rare, many of them were even introduced into Urdu poetry by Meer.
Sardar Jaffrey, in the Deewaan-e-Meer he edited mentions many of these,
but the most notable I think are "dil ka lagaana" and "jee se jaana".
We hear these every so often today, but it was actually Meer who
introduced them to poetry lovers back then. Food for thought, eh?
Here goes the full text of the Meer Ghazal:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
1. patta patta booTa booTa haal hamaara jaane hai
jaane na jaane gul hi na jaane baaGh to saara jaane hai
Every leaf, every nook, nay, the entire garden knows the state of
my heart; it is the flower that knows not (or feigns ignorance) ...
Metaphorizing 'world' with "garden" and 'every person' with "patta
patta booTa booTa" was again a first by Meer.
2. chaaragarI beemari-e-dil ki rasm-e-shehr-e-husn nahiN
warna dilbar-e-naadaaN bhi is dard kaa chaara jaane hai
[chaaragari=maseehaai/dawaa karna/treatment;
from chaara=medicine/treatment/dawa;
rasm-e-shehr-e-husn=the custom of the city of beauty;]
It's just the habit of these beautiful people to leave the pain
of Love untreated, otherwise even my simple minded, innocent (aah,
the sarcasm!) beloved knows the cure to this malady!
3. mehr-o-wafaa-o-lutf-o-inaayat ek se waaqif in meiN nahiN
aur to sab kuchh tanz-o-kinaaya, ramz-o-ishaara jaane hai
Just look [at my beloved]: she is absolutely unaware of the very
existence of things like fidelity, affection or even condescension,
but talk about torture and taunt, or teasing coquettry, and she knows
all the secrets of those!
4. kyA kyA fitne sar par us ke laatA hai ma'ashooq apnA
jis be_dil be_taab-o-tavaaN ko ishq kaa maara jaane hai
[fitne=dangers/troubles; taab=power; tavaaN=ability]
And when [my] beloved gets to know that someone, afflicted by
Love, has lost his heart and has been rendered weak and incapable
of anything, (THEN she swings into action) and look at the troubles
that [she] heaps on the poor fellow then!
waah! is nazaakat se sadism ka bayaan kiyaa hai, ke bas! :)
5. aashiq saa to saada koi aur na hoga duniyaa meiN
jI ke ziyaaN ko ishq meiN us ke apnA waaraa jaane hai
[ziyaaN=destruction (fig.)]
And look at the aashiq, what a simpleton he is! The thinks
it's his lot to give up his very being (jI) in [her] love.
6. aage us mutkabbar ke ham KhudA-KhudA kyA karte haiN
kab maujood KhudA ko woh maGhroor Khuda-aara jaane hai
[mutkabbar=haughty; maGhroor=proud]
What's the use of even calling out the Good Lord's name in
front of Her Haughtiness? :)) As if her pride has ever allowed
her to accept that God even exists! :)
[meaning, naaz aur naKhre to aise haiN jaise ke Khud ko KhudA
samajhti hai] :)) hai na ek ek sher nazaakat ke shahd meiN
ghula hua? yahi to Meer ki Khaasiyat thi! Meer ke baad is
hunar meiN koi bhi dhaak na jamaa paaya hai!
7. aashiq to murdah hai hameshaa jee uThtaa hai dekh use
yaar ke aa jaane ko yakaayak 'umr dobaaraa jaane hai
Those afflicted by Love are like lifeless bodies, who only
get a whiff of life when they are able to see her; if only
she were to appear in person, all at once, it's like they
get a second life, resuscitated!
8. tashna-e-KhooN hai apnA kitnA, Meer bhi naadaaN, talKhi-kash
damdaar aab-e-teGh ko us ke aab-e-gawaaraa jaane hai
[tashna-e-KhooN=thirsty for blood; talKhi=bitterness;
talKhi-kash=fond of bitter drink; teGh=sword; aab=water;
gawaara=desirable, wanted, required]
Look how it seems to work perfectly: the beloved is thirsty for
blood, and Meer is also a simpleton, fond of drinking from the
bitter cup of Love -- he even considers his own blood, gushing
from the deep cut made by the beloved's powerful sword, to be the
most delicious drink!
-----------------------------------------------------------------
As you can see, each and every sh'er of this Ghazal is a veritable
gem. This indeed is the beauty of Meer, a poet who would've been
lost to Urdu poetry had he not moved northwards from the Deccan.
Meer brought to the techincality-rich poetry of the north, the
soft, sweet touch of the Deccani language and it's nazaakat and,
borrowing judiciously from Persian and the local vernaculars,
created an entirely new idiom of poetry as well as many new metaphors
which have worked as vehicles for the poetic endeavors of many
after him.
Now for some technical things about this Ghazal. According to Ali
Sardar Jaffrey, the behr (meter) of this Ghazal is not a traditional
Persian/Arabic 'Ghazaliyaa' behr, but is more of a lift from the
folk songs of the era/area. Interestingly, there is not a single
Ghazal by Ghalib in this meter, and neither Momin nor Zauq seem to
have explored it much. I know of a couple of Ghazal-numa nazms by
Faiz Ahmed Faiz that are in this behr.
I got hold of the four 'new' sh'ers of this Ghazal from KC Kanda's
"Masterpieces of Urdu Ghazal" Vol. 1. These ash'aar were not
available in Ali Sardar Jaffrey's Deewaan-e-Meer. I somehow have
a strong feeling that #7 above is not quite Meer himself, but some
impostor -- there have been several poets of that type. Can someone
confirm either way?
--
Ravindra
sh'er GhAlib ka, Ghazal Meer ki, aur us ka Khayaal --
itnA kaafi hai mujhe zindagI jeene ke liye :)
Unknown
>It must be borne in mind that all these thoughts are cliches only
>today! In the day of Meer, these oft-flogged metaphors were not only
>rare, many of them were even introduced into Urdu poetry by Meer.
>Sardar Jaffrey, in the Deewaan-e-Meer he edited mentions many of these,
>but the most notable I think are "dil ka lagaana" and "jee se jaana".
>We hear these every so often today, but it was actually Meer who
>introduced them to poetry lovers back then. Food for thought, eh?
Thanks for the all the info, UVR. But I did not ( not even in my dreams) mean to
imply that *these* are recycled thoughts. Not for me they are not, cannot be.
The GFC members may take it to mean what they will :-))
Thanks for the explanations that you have painstaking attached to each sh'er.
Ask for a flower and get a garden in return :-)))) agar pataa hotaa to kuchh aur
maa.ng lete Khudaa se :-))))
The technical info was very informative, UVR. Do you remember which of Faiz's
ghazals fall in the same beher?
Keep smiling
Nita
> sh'er GhAlib ka, Ghazal Meer ki, aur us ka Khayaal --
> itnA kaafi hai mujhe zindagI jeene ke liye :)
gulshan ki faqat phooloN se nahiN, kaaNToN se bhi zeenat hoti hai
jeene ke liye is duniyaa meiN Gam ki bhi zaroorat hoti hai
- Saba Afghani
Note: I know I am repeating this but it just seemed so appropriate :-)
dayu knopfler
the film version was done be the late and great mohammad rafi and lata
mangeshkar
anup_pandey
In article <5v7a7k$8...@drn.zippo.com>, Nita says...
>
>
>>It must be borne in mind that all these thoughts are cliches only
>>today! In the day of Meer, these oft-flogged metaphors were not only
>>rare, many of them were even introduced into Urdu poetry by Meer.
>>Sardar Jaffrey, in the Deewaan-e-Meer he edited mentions many of these,
>>but the most notable I think are "dil ka lagaana" and "jee se jaana".
>>We hear these every so often today, but it was actually Meer who
>>introduced them to poetry lovers back then. Food for thought, eh?
>
>imply that *these* are recycled thoughts. Not for me they are not, cannot be.
>The GFC members may take it to mean what they will :-))
What happened Neeta :). During the west coast meet I thought you were in
GFC too. :(
I will tell you why. When Madhu(yeah that RMIMer-RAMLIer!) said something
very mildly against Gulzar; you along with Neha(yeah that Gulzar-Sahir fan :)
literally (almost)pounced on him. You did put a challenge in front of him to
ask you meaning of any of the Gulzar's song. You derided Shakeel's lyrics
of "Chaudhaveen ka chaand ho" as too simple and praised Gulzar's lyrics to
new heights. It was so bad that I inspite of being a Gulzar fan had to come
to the rescue of Madhu. Its 3 meets ago so tell me if something happened
in between these meets that changed your beliefs.
Incidentally on a pure subjective note I like Rafi-Lata version of this
song over rendition of Ghulam Ali and Mehdi Hasan. Its picturised very
well too on Amitabh and Jaya.
Cheers
Anup
Email: anu...@hotmail.com
Sanjeev Kumar
dayu knopfler wrote:
>
> the film version was done be the late and great mohammad rafi and lata
> mangeshkar
I guess it should be lata mangeshkar and the late and great mohammad
rafi
Sanjeev
Unknown
>What happened Neeta :). During the west coast meet I thought you were in
>GFC too. :(
Whoa!!! Anup, tum mujhe har club se nikalvaa ke rahoge:-) Not that I am keen on
joining any club :-)) let me clarify. I appreciate good lyrics and do like
Gulzar's work but as I have clarified earlier, I definitely rate *the
other*above him. That is a personal preference. Now I don't know whether you
would want me in GFC or not. As for the incident in question....
Madhu was insistent about why one should have to go around in circles to
understand what Gulzar was alluding to and why he or anyone else should make
that effort. I was tryign to explain to him that sometimes (if one has the
interest or the inclination) one should make the effort to try and make sense of
what Gulzar may be trying to convey through his complex metaphors. Throughout
that discussion (if it could be called that :-) ) I reiterated that yes,
Gulzar's poetry is complex ( needed or not is another story) and that people
have to make an effort ( not always successfully) to understand the meaning
BUT the effort is worth it in most cases. Madhu's contention was why should he
have to make that effort at all.
Interestingly the song under discussion that time was not "hawaaon pe likh do"
or " hamne dekhi hai" though we touched on those two too. AFAI remember, the
song was "tujhse naaraaz nahiin zindagi pareshaan huun main" but I may be
mistaken. Perhaps you or Madhu or Neha can remember?
I would also like to clarify one point. I did NOT deride the ChaudhviiN kaa
chaand song. I may have compared the songs to explain the difference between
Gulzar's convulated way of approaching things and *other" poets way of stating
things in simple terms which are never less beautiful for their simplicity.
So, you see nothing has happened to chnage the way I feel. But I see no reason
to stomp Gulzar in the mud just because I prefer the work of other
lyricists/poets to his. To borrow a phrase from UVR, I am fond of good lyrics
and
think that Sahir > Gulzar :-))
>Incidentally on a pure subjective note I like Rafi-Lata version of this
>song over rendition of Ghulam Ali and Mehdi Hasan. Its picturised very
>well too on Amitabh and Jaya.
I didn't like the film at all. :-( and don't remember the song except for the
mukhDaa. And I prefer the original version :-))
Keep smiling
Nita
ajab apnaa haal hotaa jo visaal-e-yaar hotaa
kabhii jaan sadqe hotii, kabhii dil nisaar hotaa
- DaaG
T. Srinivasan
My quest for hunting the lyrics of these 2 songs continue.Anybody with
even a whiff of it please do post it:
"aankhon mein humne aapke sapne sajaye hain.."
"aapki aankhon mein khuch mahke huye se khwab hai..aapse bhi khoobsoorat
aapke andaz hain..."
I 've no clue of the movies' name either.
Rajiv Shridhar
T. Srinivasan (sri...@mcmail.CIS.McMaster.CA) wrote:
> My quest for hunting the lyrics of these 2 songs continue.Anybody with
> even a whiff of it please do post it:
>
Both songs are available in the ITRANS Song Book v3.1.
> "aankhon mein humne aapke sapne sajaye hain.."
>
This is song #406: aa.Nkho.n me.n hamane aap ke sapane sajaaye hai.n
> "aapki aankhon mein khuch mahke huye se khwab hai..aapse bhi khoobsoorat
> aapke andaz hain..."
>
This is song #399: aap kii aa.Nkho.n me.n kuchh mahake hue se raaz hai.n
> I 've no clue of the movies' name either.
>
To access these lyrics, point your favorite Web browser at any of the
ISB sites and either use the search feature to find the lyrics, or use
the song numbers (given above) to access the correct song.
Discover the myriad features of the ITRANS Song Book v3.1 sites at:
http://chandra.astro.indiana.edu/isongs (main site)
http://roblix.eng.ohio-state/edu/isongs (mirror)
http://brahma.cdsp.neu.edu/isongs (mirror)
http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~navin/india/songs/ (ISB + other)
Forthcoming additions to the ITRANS Song Book are available at:
http://www.coe.neu.edu/~rajiv/newsongs.html
Best,
Rajiv
--
Rajiv Shridhar
ra...@hendrix.coe.neu.edu
us mehfil-e-kaif-o-masti meN, us aNjuman-e-irfaani meN
sab jaam-b-kaf baiThe hi rahe, ham pi phi gae, chhalkaa bhi gae
- Majaz