Shankar-Jaikishan
HAbadzi
Who were Shankar and Jaikishan? Is any of them still alive?
Jairaj, Vinod
HI!
Shankar and Jaikishan were among the greatest music directors of
Hindi films. They started in 1949 and continued to give great music till
the death of Jaikishan in 1974. Shankar died in 1986.
Later,
Vinod
Kamlesh
HAbadzi wrote:
>
> Who were Shankar and Jaikishan? Is any of them still alive?******************************************************************
Shanker-Jaikishan, both are dead. Jaikishan some time in early 70s (71?)
and shanker in early 80s.
I remember reading one magazine. It said that in earlier days when
Rajkapoor was not a movie actor he was travelling with Prithviraj Kapoor
with his drama company. It was Ahmedabad(Gujarat)H.L.COMMERCE
COLLEGE ground was the place, PrithvirajKapoor was there doing some
drama's. That was a rainy day, and Raj Kapoor was taking shelter in a
tent, as there was no drama, and was raining out side. They started
playing music, using dishes, glasses and other utensils, and the tune
became very famous, Barsaat mein humse mile tum... from RKs BARSAT. He
has promosed SK that they will be his MDs when he will be making movies
one day. And for Years starting from Barsat....until Mera naam JOKER they
stayed together, I do not know what happened after that and RK started
using LP from BOBBY. If some one has a different story I don't know.
You can see Jaikishan in a SHREE 420 scene, he was drunk, living with
Nadira, when RK enters Nadira's house to return laundry stuff to her
house and starts dong some card tricks.
I like Naushad's music, SDB, MadanMohan, but I loved SJs music, truly I
was, and still today SJs fan. I miss them. People say SJs main was JAI,
he was doing music much of the AWARA, AAH, BARSAT style while Shanker was
doing much of the Shammikapoor style, I dont now, I like both styles,
they were good at classicals(Janak janak--MERE HUZUR) as well as
Hoshiyaar...(RAJKUMAR) or Badan pe sitare..(PRINCE) style.
Once I heard that Lata had an affair with Jaikishan, I donot know. But
every body know that SJ gave Lata a good break in BARSAT, giving all the
songs of the Movie, when she was singing one or two song in a movie at
the time. And look what she did to SJ? She refused to sing for them as
they gave a chace to Suman Kalyanpur in their Movies. I donot know the
facts behind it, but One can find Many SJ movies, lata did not sing for,
until she did it in MANOJKUMAR'S SANYASI.
Shailesh Phansalkar
>Shanker-Jaikishan, both are dead. Jaikishan some time in early 70s (71?)
>and shanker in early 80s.
Jaikishen died in 72 (I think) and Shankar died in March 1986.
>I like Naushad's music, SDB, MadanMohan, but I loved SJs music, truly I
>was, and still today SJs fan. I miss them. People say SJs main was JAI,
>he was doing music much of the AWARA, AAH, BARSAT style while Shanker was
>doing much of the Shammikapoor style, I dont now, I like both styles,
>they were good at classicals(Janak janak--MERE HUZUR) as well as
>Hoshiyaar...(RAJKUMAR) or Badan pe sitare..(PRINCE) style.
I too am a big SJ fan. Lovely stuff.
>Once I heard that Lata had an affair with Jaikishan, I donot know. But
>every body know that SJ gave Lata a good break in BARSAT, giving all the
>songs of the Movie, when she was singing one or two song in a movie at
>the time. And look what she did to SJ? She refused to sing for them as
>they gave a chace to Suman Kalyanpur in their Movies. I donot know the
>facts behind it, but One can find Many SJ movies, lata did not sing for,
>until she did it in MANOJKUMAR'S SANYASI.
Many people say that Teesari Kasam and Mera Naam Joker were not big
hits initially bcos Lata didn't sing in it. Since Teesari Kasam, they
say she had a fight (??) with SJ.
Since then, Raj Kapoor found it ominous not to have Lata sing in his
films. The RK film that came after MNJ was Bobby in which Lata sung.
Also Sanyasi got the filmfare award for it's "Chal Sanyasi..."
That's when SJ (actually only Shankar, bcos Jaikishen was dead by then)
and Lata got back together.
- shailesh
P.S. By the way, who has sung for Madhuri Dixit in the new RK banner film,
'Prem Granth' ? And who is the MD ? I guess, it's LP.
RK used LP and Ravindra Jain after Mera Naam Joker.
What's Ravindra Jain doing these days ?
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subtlety is the art of saying what you think and getting out of the way
before it is understood.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ravi Krishna
Jaikishan died in 71 and Shanker died in 1987.
S-J were one of the most succesful MD's in the history of hindi / indian
films. What's more they were one of the few MD's who maintained quality for
a long period of time. They had fantastic range of tunes.
Manoj Dighe
Shailesh Phansalkar wrote:
>
> Since then, Raj Kapoor found it ominous not to have Lata sing in his
> films. The RK film that came after MNJ was Bobby in which Lata sung.
> Also Sanyasi got the filmfare award for it's "Chal Sanyasi..."
>
> That's when SJ (actually only Shankar, bcos Jaikishen was dead by then)
> and Lata got back together.
>
> - shailesh
somewhere that Raj was giving his movies to a blind MD and not to him.
- Manoj
--
Manoj Dighe
(r) 512-990-2507
(o) 512-432-8474
Preetham Gopalaswamy
> MD of Bobby was LP. After RK gave RTGM to Ravindra Jain, shankar said
> somewhere that Raj was giving his movies to a blind MD and not to him.
That somehow sounds like a myth. Raj Kapoor had switched from Shankar to LP
long before "Ram Teri Ganga Maili" came along (which was the first link up of
RK pictures and Ravindra Jain). Starting with "Bobby", the RK-LP connection
continued through "Satyam Shivam Sundaram" and "Prem Rog". I may have missed
a couple of RK productions in the middle too. For Shankar to complain about
"Ram Teri ...." seems ridiculous. Then again, people have been known to do
strange things.
P
Ketan
RK Productions had Dharam Karam and Biwi O Biwi both largely Randhir K
movies in the late 70's early 80's, which had RDB as the MD. Infact
during the release of Henna, Randhir K revealed how during the recording
of some songs he had come in complaining about the music. On hearing this
Raj K angrily scribbled down the names of Shanky-J, Shailendra and Mukesh
on a piece of paper, and said "Get me these guys and I wil give u a great
song".
Ketan
A Burman fan(atic)
asch...@alpha.ntu.ac.sg
The stories I heard are very different from these. Randhir's first adventure
"Kal Aaj Aur Kal" flopped badly and he put the blame on its music. Earlier Raj
Kapoor had suffered heavy losses in MNJ. The losses were of such magnitude
that RK Studio was mortaged and RK banner was going to lose this if they could
not come up with a money spinner. Well Bobby was planned and it was suggested
to RK that he should replace S-J (Jaikished had just died in September 1971).
The question was who? Mukesh persuaded LP as they were the most popular.
Raj Kapoor had complete faith in Shanker but Randhir was deadly against it (
You know Randhir K and Raj K never saw each other eye to eye) and it was at the
insistence of Randhir that SJ were replaced by LP.
On Ravindra Jain; Raj Kapoor had met him in Delhi long before RJ had become an
MD. He sang to Raj Kapoor "Ek Meera, Ek Radha, donone ne krishn ko chaha" .
Raj K was so overtaken by this that he promised RJ a film and he kept his
promise by producing RTGM. The music of this film was so good that he
continued with him in "HENNA".
Randhir for some unknown reasons was anti-SJ roght from beginning. I am sure
in PREM GRANTH he os going to pay a heavy price.
LP and RDB thrived because suddenly there was a vacuum of MDs. When you listen
to Naushad, Anil Biswas,SDB, C.ramchandra, OPN, SJ, Roshan, Madan Mohan. Even MDs
like Sardar Malik, S.N. Tripathi, Hans Raj Bahal, Chitragupt sound much better
than LP, RDB, NS,AM, etc.
These MDs composed for pleasure not for money.
R.S.Chandel
Arun Verma
In article <1996Jun2...@alpha.ntu.ac.sg>,
Okay, lemme get this right. SJ composed for 'pleasure' while RDB did
it for the 'money'?? Perhaps an explanation as to why you think so
is in order. I don't understand how you can put SJ in the same
category as SDB, Madan Mohan and Anil Biswas.
Granted that SJ had a variety of tunes, had ability to adapt to
changing music scenes (RDB ofcourse had all this and much more)
, but they never produced very good music.
Heck, they only produced 'trash' with a few exceptions(I'm not
as big a SJ-basher as Sami bhai, y'know :-) after early-mid 60s.
Comments?
Arun
Harish Suvarna
Yes lots of /*...*/
Trash with a few exceptions? NO, it is excellence with few trash.
They withstood competition from the stalwarts during the peak. They
had the potential to use all singers rafi,mannadey,talat,hemant,
mukesh. I would say these are the only MD pair which used all the
singers effectively.They gave all types of songs solos, duets,
,semi-classicals, club songs etc etc.
Their rasik balmaa is on par with aap ki nazarom ne samjhaa of Madan.
Their ehsaan tera hoga mujh par is on paar with koi sagar of naushaad.
Their sajanwaa bahire is no less than maine tere liye hi of salil daa
Their sur naa saje is no less than pucho na of sdb
Their ae bhai zara dekh ke chalo is as good as ai dil hai mushkil of OPN
Their Yaad Kiya dil ne is like Khayaalon me kissi ka of Roshan saab.
I would put their MUSIC in the bracket of the other greats. No doubt about
that but I would put them below the other greats because of the collective
effort (I dont know whom to give personal credit).I can not agree to the
statement of RDB being better or on par with SJ.
.
-Harish
Anand Kuppuswamy
Hi!
In article <1996Jun2...@alpha.ntu.ac.sg>, asch...@alpha.ntu.ac.sg
says...
>LP and RDB thrived because suddenly there was a vacuum of MDs. When you
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
listen
>to Naushad, Anil Biswas,SDB, C.ramchandra, OPN, SJ, Roshan, Madan Mohan.
Even MDs
>like Sardar Malik, S.N. Tripathi, Hans Raj Bahal, Chitragupt sound much
better
>than LP, RDB, NS,AM, etc.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>These MDs composed for pleasure not for money.
>
>R.S.Chandel
While I agree with you that RDB was, certainly, not in the 'same league' as
some of his 'illustrious predecessors'... I would definitely rate him much
higher than LP (whose music is mediocre - at best), NS, AM (who I would not
even want to talk about!!) and the other present crop of
'live and die by synth' MDs.
... RD's music had some kind of 'class' and 'stamp' to it ... and it is badly
lacking in most of the 'post-70s-MDs'.
regards,
Anand
rebala gopinath
In article <4qbmq2$8...@solaris.cc.vt.edu>,
Anand Kuppuswamy <akup...@vt.edu> wrote:
>
>>LP and RDB thrived because suddenly there was a vacuum of MDs. When you
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>some of his 'illustrious predecessors'... I would definitely rate him much
>higher than LP (whose music is mediocre - at best), NS, AM (who I would not
>even want to talk about!!) and the other present crop of
>'live and die by synth' MDs.
I'm with you there. It gets disturbing when RDB fans in their enthusiam
start comparing him with his 'illustrious predecessors'. I have seen
attempts to prove he's better than CR or at the same level as SDB, which
IMHO is laughable. As long as he's compared with Bappi, AM, NS etc it's ok.
Kalyan
Arun Verma
In article <4qc73u$4...@umbc8.umbc.edu>,
rebala gopinath <gre...@umbc.edu> wrote:
>In article <4qbmq2$8...@solaris.cc.vt.edu>,
>Anand Kuppuswamy <akup...@vt.edu> wrote:
>>
>>>LP and RDB thrived because suddenly there was a vacuum of MDs. When you
>>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>>While I agree with you that RDB was, certainly, not in the 'same league' as
>>some of his 'illustrious predecessors'... I would definitely rate him much
>>higher than LP (whose music is mediocre - at best), NS, AM (who I would not
>>even want to talk about!!) and the other present crop of
>>'live and die by synth' MDs.
>
>I'm with you there. It gets disturbing when RDB fans in their enthusiam
>start comparing him with his 'illustrious predecessors'. I have seen
>attempts to prove he's better than CR or at the same level as SDB, which
>IMHO is laughable. As long as he's compared with Bappi, AM, NS etc it's ok.
>
>Kalyan
>
>
There goes another 'I-listen-n-like-only-50s stuff-music-made-after-
1st January 1960-was trashy' guy!
Arun
asch...@alpha.ntu.ac.sg
In article <1996062006...@wipro.wipsys.soft.net>, "Snehal B. Oza" <sne...@wipro.wipsys.soft.net> writes:
> >
> Are you trying to underrate these MDs ? (SM, SNT, HRB ...) I really don't see
> any reason (personally) to put them in different class. Particularly SNT and
> HrB were as good (may be better than couple of the names above) as all those
> who appear in the first line :)
>
> Snehal
>
>> much better than LP, RDB, NS,AM, etc.
>>
No I am not trying to underrate SNT,HRB or any of these masters. I referred to
them in context of popularity. I fully agree with you that SNT was an MD par
excellence. To appreciate this one has to listen to the music of Kavi Kalidas,
Janam Janam Ke phere, Sangeet Smrat Tansen, Rani Roopmati. HRB too was great
and evry song he composed was a gem. (BTW did you know that both SNT and HRB
were Producer & director as well).
The Prem Granth music makes me laught: AB thought that he could write a title
song to match with what Shailendra?Hasrat were masters of. I think while
writing lyrics for "main kamzor aurat" AB must have dreamt of outdoing Sahir
for his "aurat ne zanam diya.."
>> R.S.Chandel
>>
rebala gopinath
In article <835316...@lindt.mcs.anl.gov>,
Arun Verma <ve...@lindt.mcs.anl.gov> wrote:
>In article <4qc73u$4...@umbc8.umbc.edu>,
>rebala gopinath <gre...@umbc.edu> wrote:
>>In article <4qbmq2$8...@solaris.cc.vt.edu>,
>>Anand Kuppuswamy <akup...@vt.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>>LP and RDB thrived because suddenly there was a vacuum of MDs. When you
>>>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>
>>>While I agree with you that RDB was, certainly, not in the 'same league' as
>>>some of his 'illustrious predecessors'... I would definitely rate him much
>>>higher than LP (whose music is mediocre - at best), NS, AM (who I would not
>>>even want to talk about!!) and the other present crop of
>>>'live and die by synth' MDs.
>>
>>I'm with you there. It gets disturbing when RDB fans in their enthusiam
>>start comparing him with his 'illustrious predecessors'. I have seen
>>attempts to prove he's better than CR or at the same level as SDB, which
>>IMHO is laughable. As long as he's compared with Bappi, AM, NS etc it's ok.
>>
>>Kalyan
>>
>>
>
>There goes another 'I-listen-n-like-only-50s stuff-music-made-after-
>1st January 1960-was trashy' guy!
>
>Arun
Maybe you are being too sensitive :-) Unless you are imagining things
there wasn't any reference to music after 1960 or my preference for
50's music alone. Can't you accept that there might be others who
may not be as enthusiastic about RDB as you are :) :)
Cheers,
Kalyan
Pradeep Dubey
In article <4qafe4$9...@fido.asd.sgi.com>, Harish Suvarna <sundu> writes:
|> >>In article <Pine.UW2.3.94.96061...@seminole.iag.net>, Ketan <ke...@iag.net> writes:
|> >>>
|> >>>
|> >>> On Tue, 18 Jun 1996, Preetham Gopalaswamy wrote:
|>
|> >
|> >Okay, lemme get this right. SJ composed for 'pleasure' while RDB did
|> >it for the 'money'?? Perhaps an explanation as to why you think so
|> >is in order. I don't understand how you can put SJ in the same
|> >category as SDB, Madan Mohan and Anil Biswas.
|> >
|> >Granted that SJ had a variety of tunes, had ability to adapt to
|> >changing music scenes (RDB ofcourse had all this and much more)
|> >, but they never produced very good music.
|> >Heck, they only produced 'trash' with a few exceptions(I'm not
|> >as big a SJ-basher as Sami bhai, y'know :-) after early-mid 60s.
|> >
|> >
|> >Comments?
|> >
|> >Arun
|>
|> Yes lots of /*...*/
|>
|> Trash with a few exceptions? NO, it is excellence with few trash.
|> They withstood competition from the stalwarts during the peak. They
|> had the potential to use all singers rafi,mannadey,talat,hemant,
|> mukesh. I would say these are the only MD pair which used all the
|> singers effectively.They gave all types of songs solos, duets,
|> ,semi-classicals, club songs etc etc.
|>
|> Their rasik balmaa is on par with aap ki nazarom ne samjhaa of Madan.
|> Their ehsaan tera hoga mujh par is on paar with koi sagar of naushaad.
|> Their sajanwaa bahire is no less than maine tere liye hi of salil daa
I was going to stay out of it because for some reason or other,
RS Chandel had left Salil C out of his long list of great-good-mediocre
MDs. But now that you bring SalilC's name in the discussion,
I must add that the analogy above is really inappropriate. These
are two very different types of songs, the 'teesri kasam' song
is a tear-jerker, whereas, the 'anand' song is certainly not.
The more appropriate comparison with the 'teersi kasam' song will
be the following Salil-Mukesh song, which acc to Salil, was his
best Mukesh number:
kaise manaaoon piyawa, gun mere ekahu naahin (Film: chaardiwari, 1961)
Pradeep
Vijay Sundararajan
In article <4qc73u$4...@umbc8.umbc.edu>,
rebala gopinath <gre...@umbc.edu> wrote:
>In article <4qbmq2$8...@solaris.cc.vt.edu>,
>Anand Kuppuswamy <akup...@vt.edu> wrote:
>>
>>>LP and RDB thrived because suddenly there was a vacuum of MDs. When you
>>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>>While I agree with you that RDB was, certainly, not in the 'same league' as
>>some of his 'illustrious predecessors'... I would definitely rate him much
>>higher than LP (whose music is mediocre - at best), NS, AM (who I would not
>>even want to talk about!!) and the other present crop of
>>'live and die by synth' MDs.
>
>I'm with you there. It gets disturbing when RDB fans in their enthusiam
>start comparing him with his 'illustrious predecessors'. I have seen
>attempts to prove he's better than CR or at the same level as SDB, which
>IMHO is laughable. As long as he's compared with Bappi, AM, NS etc it's ok.
Well Kalyan I hope you are just expressing an opinion because I think
everybody has a right to like or dislike what they please. For example
the little I have heard of `CR` are OHMI laughable when compared to
RDB.
-Vijay
>
>Kalyan
Chetan
In article <835316...@lindt.mcs.anl.gov>,
ve...@lindt.mcs.anl.gov (Arun Verma) wrote:
>There goes another 'I-listen-n-like-only-50s stuff-music-made-after-
>1st January 1960-was trashy' guy!
Oh, is that when RD started composing ? Thanks for the info.
C
Ravi Krishna
: rebala gopinath <gre...@umbc.edu> wrote:
: >I'm with you there. It gets disturbing when RDB fans in their enthusiam
: >attempts to prove he's better than CR or at the same level as SDB, which
: >
Same here. RDB was no doubt a very very fine composer ( I will close my eyes
to his copying disease ) and is definitely a class above all post 1970 era of
composer ( barring Laxmi-Pyare who IMO were quite competent even though RDB
was clearly better than them ( again IMO) ). But to put RDB in the same
bracket as SDB / SJ / Madan Mohan / Naushad /Salil Chaudhury is an insult to
those great composers. For RDB fans I will quote RDB himself which I saw in
some video magazine (lehren):-
It was year 1990 or 1991. The function was release of some golden collection
of S D Burman songs and HMV asked RDB to release it. Some one asked RDB
how come S D Burman songs are popular even today ( that is almost two decades
after his death ) whereas RDB himself is down and out. (To remind you by 1990
RDB was truly and completely wiped out from Hindi films ).
To this question RDB gave a great reply:-
"that's because my father had his roots strong in Indian music whereas I had
more in western music".
The answer by RDB was to-the-point and I admire him for admitting it honestly.
And here are his so-called knowlegdable fans who are hell bent on proving
that RDB WAS THE GREATEST.
The greatness of any composer lies in the enjoyment their songs give year
after year and on that count RDB scores lower than the great composers I
mentioned above.
--
S. Ravi Krishna
Vijay Sundararajan
>And here are his so-called knowlegdable fans who are hell bent on proving
>that RDB WAS THE GREATEST.
>
>The greatness of any composer lies in the enjoyment their songs give year
>after year and on that count RDB scores lower than the great composers I
>mentioned above.
fans of RDB are still enjoying those songs but then again everything
in life is a contradiction is'nt it ?
If you ask me all I can see is, for each person his favourite is the
greatest ever.
-Vijay
>
>--
>S. Ravi Krishna
Harish Suvarna
pra...@watson.ibm.com (Pradeep Dubey) wrote:
>In article <4qafe4$9...@fido.asd.sgi.com>, Harish Suvarna <sundu> writes:
>|> ve...@lindt.mcs.anl.gov (Arun Verma) wrote:
>|> Their sajanwaa bahire is no less than maine tere liye hi of salil daa
>
>I was going to stay out of it because for some reason or other,
>RS Chandel had left Salil C out of his long list of great-good-mediocre
>MDs. But now that you bring SalilC's name in the discussion,
>I must add that the analogy above is really inappropriate. These
>are two very different types of songs, the 'teesri kasam' song
>is a tear-jerker, whereas, the 'anand' song is certainly not.
>The more appropriate comparison with the 'teersi kasam' song will
>be the following Salil-Mukesh song, which acc to Salil, was his
>best Mukesh number:
>
>kaise manaaoon piyawa, gun mere ekahu naahin (Film: chaardiwari, 1961)
>
I agree that sajanwaa bairi is heavy compared to maine tere liye hi.
Your observation is correct. Thanx for that Pradeep.
But the point to be noted is that if
I say SJ = X where X is someother elite MD. We can always find a mapping
whatever be on the RHS because such was their versatility.
I do not know the 'kaise manaoon piya.' Your mapping
says that SJ are in the bracket of that Elite. Thanx a lot for that.
-Harish
Ashok
In article <4qehue$j...@clarknet.clark.net>, cvin...@telogy.com says...
Hold it folks. With this logic, you guys will be celebrating the dawn
of the new millennium a year too soon! The 60s ended on Dec. 31, '60,
right? On the one hand, 1960 was a particularly good year; that's when
many of the songs featured in RJGK 28 showed up! On the other hand,
1961 was the year of 'Junglee', whose success was to prove fatal to
melody.
Ashok
rebala gopinath
In article <4qebm1$3...@epx.cis.umn.edu>,
Vijay Sundararajan <vi...@ee.ee.umn.edu> wrote:
>In article <4qc73u$4...@umbc8.umbc.edu>,
>rebala gopinath <gre...@umbc.edu> wrote:
>>In article <4qbmq2$8...@solaris.cc.vt.edu>,
>>Anand Kuppuswamy <akup...@vt.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>While I agree with you that RDB was, certainly, not in the 'same league' as
>>>some of his 'illustrious predecessors'... I would definitely rate him much
>>>higher than LP (whose music is mediocre - at best), NS, AM (who I would not
>>>even want to talk about!!) and the other present crop of
>>>'live and die by synth' MDs.
>>
>>start comparing him with his 'illustrious predecessors'. I have seen
>>attempts to prove he's better than CR or at the same level as SDB, which
>>IMHO is laughable. As long as he's compared with Bappi, AM, NS etc it's ok.
>
>Well Kalyan I hope you are just expressing an opinion because I think
Humble opinion :) On a serious note I regret the strong language I
used, which was uncalled for. I guess it might be better to deal with
info than fight about opinions in a way that disturbs the cordial atmosphere
in RMIM.
>everybody has a right to like or dislike what they please. For example
>the little I have heard of `CR` are OHMI laughable when compared to
>RDB.
:) :) After what you told me on the phone, I forgive you :-)
Cheers,
Kalyan
kalpataru barman
rebala gopinath wrote:
> I'm with you there. It gets disturbing when RDB fans in their enthusiam
> start comparing him with his 'illustrious predecessors'. I have seen
> attempts to prove he's better than CR or at the same level as SDB, which
>
>
Come on ! This is ridiculous ! Comparing RD with Bappi/Anand Milind !!!
Is this the only to praise Bappi or AM ?
Who can create another "Chingari Koi vadke"/"Tujse naraj nehi jindegi"/
"Maine poocha chaand se"/"raina biti jayey"/"bade aachchey laagtey hai"/
"Mera kuch saman"/......so many...
Of course all the other MD s had thier own class ( and trash too !),
and RD is no different.
kalpataru barman
Ravi Krishna wrote:
>
> The greatness of any composer lies in the enjoyment their songs give
> composers I mentioned above.
> S. Ravi Krishna
You mean RDB songs dont give enjoyment after few days ! No one is
buying cassettes/CD s of Amarprem/KatiPatang/Kinara/Manzil/
Hare Rama Hare Krishna/Aap Ki Kasam/Golmaal/...etc !!
It is true, that songs of Madhumati/Awara/Pyasa... was,is,and will
give enjoyment years after years, but at the same time the same is
true for Amarprem/Kinara/Masoom...
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
>In article <4qehue$j...@clarknet.clark.net>, cvin...@telogy.com says...
>
>of the new millennium a year too soon! The 60s ended on Dec. 31, '60,
>right? On the one hand, 1960 was a particularly good year; that's when
>many of the songs featured in RJGK 28 showed up! On the other hand,
>1961 was the year of 'Junglee', whose success was to prove fatal to
>melody.
>
cause there are some good songs in Junglee - how can you fault these
guys on their logic after a statement like that - there were some good
songs (as I'm sure you will concede) AFTER the demise of K.L. Saigal :-)
Sanjeev
Kuntal Shah
>>>>> "k" == kalpataru barman <ka...@fyiowa.infi.net> writes:
k> Ravi Krishna wrote:
>> The greatness of any composer lies in the enjoyment their
>> songs give year after year and on that count RDB scores lower
>> than the great composers I mentioned above.
>> - S. Ravi Krishna
k> You mean RDB songs dont give enjoyment after few days ! No one
k> is buying cassettes/CD s of Amarprem/KatiPatang/Kinara/Manzil/
k> Hare Rama Hare Krishna/Aap Ki Kasam/Golmaal/...etc !! It is
k> true, that songs of Madhumati/Awara/Pyasa... was,is,and will
k> give enjoyment years after years, but at the same time the same
k> is true for Amarprem/Kinara/Masoom...
Actually any music store will corroborate that among MDs of non-90s,
RD's music sells atleast as much as anybody else's.
But then again, somebody will come up with that age-old argument of
classes v/s masses etc. And you know that whoever uses this argument
generally considers himself in the "class" and others in the "masses"
:)
--
-Kuntal.
______________________________________________________________________
| tumhiN ne ghum ki daulat di baDa ehsaan farmaaya
| zamaane bhar ke aage haath failaane kahaaN jaate
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ravi Krishna
: kalpataru barman <ka...@fyiowa.infi.net> writes:
: Actually any music store will corroborate that among MDs of non-90s,
: RD's music sells atleast as much as anybody else's.
Yet another absurd theory from RDB fan(s). Let me blast this with facts:-
a. In 70's when RDB was at his best his music though well received was
definitly less popular then that of Laxmi-Pyare. LP consistenly use to
outsell RDB. I grew up listening to Binaca Geet Mala ( later on renamed to
Cibaca geet Mala) and I always found that RDB was beaten time and again by
LP. In that decade only in 1972 RDB's song came no # in Hara Rama Hare
Krishna (Dum Maro Dum ). Even Kalayanji-Anandji had a better record in
Binana Geet Mala. They topped 3 times in that decade.
b. In 80's RDB was non-existant ( come on admit it). His music never use to
sell in this decade.
c. Even his much touted 1942 ALS sold a pitiable 25 lakhs. Pitiable because
if you compare it with Baazigar( 1 crore),Mohra (60 lakhs),Darr (50 lakhs),
Roja (40 lakhs). Source: India Today Nov 94 issue - Cover article on Indian
cassette industry.
Note: I am not passing any comment on the quality of music. I am just
quoting sales figure.
MY HUMBLE APPEAL TO ALL RDB FANS:- IN YOUR ENTHU TO PROVE RDB GREAT PLEASE DO
NOT MISREPRESENT FACTS. STICK TO FACTS ONLY.
--
S. Ravi Krishna
Kalpataru Barman
Ravi Krishna wrote:
>
> : kalpataru barman <ka...@fyiowa.infi.net> writes:
>
> : Actually any music store will corroborate that among MDs of non-90s,
> : RD's music sells atleast as much as anybody else's.
>
> Yet another absurd theory from RDB fan(s). Let me blast this with facts:-
*** I didn't write the above. Those were from Kuntal.
RDB fan ! I just listen good songs like many others and like to
know who is the singer or MD or lyricist.
Kuntal Shah
>>>>> "Ashok" == Ashok <ADhar...@WorldBank.Org> writes:
Ashok> The 60s ended on Dec. 31, '60, right?
Sorry for net-picking Ashok, but 60s would have ended on
Dec 31 1969, isn't it ?
Kuntal Shah
>>>>> "Ravi" == Ravi Krishna <rkri...@informix.com> writes:
Ravi> Same here. RDB was no doubt a very very fine composer ( I
Ravi> will close my eyes to his copying disease ) and is
Ravi> definitely a class above all post 1970 era of composer (
Ravi> barring Laxmi-Pyare who IMO were quite competent even though
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Probably this is the only thing where we seem to be in agreement in
the recent past :)
Ravi> For RDB fans I will quote RDB himself which I saw in some
Ravi> video magazine (lehren):-
Do you know that Rafi also respected KK and KK always believed Rafi
was the great ? So who is greater, going by your logic ?
And just assume that RDB was great compared to SDB, but who on this
earth ( or atleast in India ) will have guts to say in public that
he is better than his father ?
And if you believe what one says about himself, FYI, Abhijit says
that he is the best singer around today. And we know this is close
to the truth but not the complete truth.
U.V. Ravindra
In article <4qpn59$3...@news.informix.com>
rkri...@informix.com (Ravi Krishna) writes:
=> Kuntal Shah wrote:
=> : Actually any music store will corroborate that among MDs of non-90s,
=> : RD's music sells atleast as much as anybody else's.
=> Yet another absurd theory from RDB fan(s). Let me blast this
=> with facts:-
=>
=> a. In 70's when RDB was at his best his music though well received was
=> definitly less popular then that of Laxmi-Pyare. LP consistenly use to
=> outsell RDB. I grew up listening to Binaca Geet Mala ( later on renamed to
=> Cibaca geet Mala) and I always found that RDB was beaten time and again by
=> LP. In that decade only in 1972 RDB's song came no # in Hara Rama Hare
=> Krishna (Dum Maro Dum ). Even Kalayanji-Anandji had a better record in
=> Binana Geet Mala. They topped 3 times in that decade.
While this may be true (I certainly remember more LP songs in the
'Sangam' program at 10:00am daily from the 'Vividh Bharati Ki Vigyapan
Prasaran Seva Kaa Dilli Kendra' ;-),
=> b. In 80's RDB was non-existant ( come on admit it). His music
=> never use to sell in this decade.
which were the MD's whose music sold in the 80-s? I kinda think most
AB movies (which were roaring successes in the ealry 80-s) had RDB as
the MD. Those days the success of a film ensured the success of its
music (instead of the other way around in the 40-s, 50-s and 60-s),
and RDB was the MD for most of the successful films, including, but
not limited to multi-starrers like Do Aur Do Panch, Mukaddar ka
Sikandar, Don, The Burning Train, etc.
=> c. Even his much touted 1942 ALS sold a pitiable 25 lakhs. Pitiable because
=> if you compare it with Baazigar( 1 crore),Mohra (60 lakhs),Darr (50 lakhs),
=> Roja (40 lakhs). Source: India Today Nov 94 issue - Cover article on Indian
=> cassette industry.
=>
=> Note: I am not passing any comment on the quality of music. I am just
=> quoting sales figure.
Kuntal made a specific reference to MD-s of the *NON-90s*, which you
conveniently ignore in your retort. The fact that RDB's soft and
oldie music still sold 25 lakhs in the face of stiff competition from
the cacophony of the Anu Maliks shows something. If you see the list
you yourself have mentioned above, there is a gradual reduction in
sales from absolute noise (Mohra and Baazigar) to 70s-style-filmi
(Darr) to nice-new-and-melodic (Roja) to soft-and-oldie (1942ALS). I
rest my case.
=> MY HUMBLE APPEAL TO ALL RDB FANS:- IN YOUR ENTHU TO PROVE RDB GREAT
=> PLEASE DO NOT MISREPRESENT FACTS. STICK TO FACTS ONLY.
=>
=> --
=> S. Ravi Krishna
Any particular reason why we should believe your 'FACTS' to be true,
without any information about their source?
Ravindra.
And, oh yes! We don't SHOUT on this newsgroup. NOT EVEN
HUMBLY.
Harish Suvarna
I came across the following para from Old postings
of Rajan Saahab. I think the posting from him was
on a point of Indian Music Directors copying.
=========================================================================
Why don't they ever subscribe to the converse viewpoint? Which is that
people such as OP Nayyar, Shankar-Jaikishan, Salil Chowdhary and such
like were so damn smart that they were eclectic enough to understand
foreign genres and adapt them at home. Particularly remarkable were
S-J - there isn't a form within the vast and diverse Indian matrix that
they haven't explored. Not only that, Russian, Arabic, Hungarian, Brazilian,
Japanese and African folk influence - all can be seen in their work. How
many composers in the world can make this boast? Verily, there isn't a
composer in the land who has covered as much ground, surveyed as many
genres AND consistently maintained a respectable QL/QN (quality/quantity)
ratio as these two. Our resident net-savant, young and handsome
Preetham Gopalaswamy, may have more to say on this, I suspect.
=============================================================================
If you have time go and get lost in Sami's home page. It's like forgetting
where you parked your car in a big city's downtown area and you dont want
to find your car early.
--
Harish Suvarna
su...@mti.sgi.com
Ravi Krishna
: And my appeal ( can't say it's humble ) to you : Read the article
: posted by you few months back that I have attached below. After
: that tell me one thing : wouldn't you say "Binaka Geetmala sucks"
: too ???
Binaca Geet Mala , unlike Filmfare award gives its ranking based on sales and
as far as I know it is not rigged. In fact their method is fairly straight
forward.
1. Each week there is top 16 ( I think later on it became top 25) and the
songs which comes no 1 gets 16 points , # 2 song gets 15 points and like that
song # 16 gets 1 point.
2. Add all the points of the song week after week. By the time the year ends
you can sum up the points of the song and get the final total.
3. That total gives you the hit parade of the year.
Now tell me how can it be rigged unless someone can predict which songs of
RDB is going to clash with LP songs right in the middle of the year.
Filmware awards on the other hand is based on jury ( sic) who decide which is
the best , just like Oscar. There decision is pretty subjective and has
been controversial ( again like Oscar).
I still view FF awards suspiciously but not BGM.
Regarding your point which one sells more "Sargam" or "Aandhi" I don't know what
are you trying to prove now. At that time ( ie 1979 ) Sargam outsold any
other RDB film. If you want to say that RDB music is more evergreen than LP
then I agree with you 100%.
I like RDB music more than LP , I wrote that article just to give you a true
picture that LP's music use to outsell RDB's music in 70 's and 80's and
that's a irrefutable fact. And if it outsells RDB's music then surely more
number of people should like LP's music than RDB. Now who are these people
who like LP's music , I don't know.
--
S. Ravi Krishna
Kuntal Shah
Ravi> Binaca Geet Mala , unlike Filmfare award gives its ranking
Ravi> based on sales and as far as I know it is not rigged. In
Ravi> fact their method is fairly straight forward.
And so do many top 10 programs that have come up on various channels.
Then how come each of them has different top 10 list ? "Fairly straight
forward" is not a correct description for this process for the following
reasons :
1. A cassette may sell just because of one good song. Then how do you
judge popularity of other songs in same movie ? Current top 10 shows
solve this by having just any one song of that movie in the list. But
I very well remember that on Binaka Geetmala they used to have more
than one song from same movie on the top 16 list. And then you would
say Binaka had 4 out of 16 songs by LP, while actually only 1 song was
so popular. Ofcourse this is true for all MDs equally, but what I mean
is, the method is not so clean.
2. Suppose there is no "single" cassette, i mean, it is "combo" of two
movies on same cassette.. In pre-90s this was true; rarely did "solo"
cassettes appear in the market, and even if "single" ones were there,
people preferred "combo" versions to get good return on their money.
( This is true even today, when cassettes have become cheaper ) In
that case the second movie also gets a lift on the Binaka top 16 list,
right ?
Ravi> Now tell me how can it be rigged unless someone can predict
Ravi> which songs of RDB is going to clash with LP songs right in
Ravi> the middle of the year.
I never said Binaka hit parade was rigged. I was referring to your
article on FF awards and was only suggesting that if as you said RDB
deserved better than LP etc on FF front, same must be true on Binaka.
Ravi> Filmware awards on the other hand is based on jury ( sic)
Ravi> who decide which is the best , just like Oscar. There
Ravi> decision is pretty subjective and has been controversial (
Ravi> again like Oscar).
I am not sure, but I think until last couple of years, FF awards were
based on inputs by readers. That's why, I remember there were instances,
where a producer or actor will buy large number of copies of FF in order
to get an award. Ofcourse, there can be rigging even after readers or
dummy-readers send their choices, and that seems to have happened in the
cases you mentioned.
Ravi> Regarding your point which one sells more "Sargam" or
Ravi> "Aandhi" I don't know what are you trying to prove now. At
Ravi> that time ( ie 1979 ) Sargam outsold any other RDB film. If
Ravi> you want to say that RDB music is more evergreen than LP
Ravi> then I agree with you 100%.
That's what I clearly meant when I said "go to any music store and verify"
etc. It's good to know that you see my point now.
RAvi> I like RDB music more than LP ,
Ravi> I wrote that article just to give you a true picture that
Ravi> LP's music use to outsell RDB's music in 70 's and 80's and
Ravi> that's a irrefutable fact. And if it outsells RDB's music
Ravi> then surely more number of people should like LP's music
Ravi> than RDB. Now who are these people who like LP's music , I
Ravi> don't know.
It only shows that in general RDB's music seems to have long-lasting
effect compared to LP's music, although at the time of release LP's
music in 70-80s would beat any other MD most of the time.
--
-Kuntal.
______________________________________________________________________
| ro ro ke tumheN khat likhti hooN
| aur khud padhkar ro leti hooN
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rizwan M. Syed
>=> b. In 80's RDB was non-existant ( come on admit it). His music
>=> never use to sell in this decade.
>which were the MD's whose music sold in the 80-s? I kinda think most
>AB movies (which were roaring successes in the ealry 80-s) had RDB as
>the MD. Those days the success of a film ensured the success of its
>music (instead of the other way around in the 40-s, 50-s and 60-s),
>and RDB was the MD for most of the successful films, including, but
>not limited to multi-starrers like Do Aur Do Panch, Mukaddar ka
>Sikandar, Don, The Burning Train, etc.
As much as I hate to soften up your arguments FOR RD being the greatest,
I must say that you've got MKS, and DON wrong. Both of these movies
were MDed by Kaliyanji Anandji, and they did a pretty commendable job,
I might add. Other thing is, Don came out in '77-78, and MKS around 78-
79 sometime, but they were BOTH, definitely pre-'80s. I think what you
MEANT to mention up there were movies like Satte pe Satta, Pukaar, Mahaan,
Going back to the '70s, the Great Gambler, etc...
>=> MY HUMBLE APPEAL TO ALL RDB FANS:- IN YOUR ENTHU TO PROVE RDB GREAT
>=> PLEASE DO NOT MISREPRESENT FACTS. STICK TO FACTS ONLY.
>=> S. Ravi Krishna
Ok, you want FACTS? I'll give you facts. Facts are, I have used RDB
music to make a crying baby not only stop, but bust out in laughter
(story to be told at a later date), I have played almost 2 hours of
non-stop songs SUNG by RD Burman at a party and everybody enjoyed
and danced to it, even though there were only 4 Urdu-speakers who
could actualy understand the lyrics. (story to be told at a later date,
again. *chuckle*) Fact is, not only is RD Burman's music loved by
the baby-boomers, and the generation X, but ALSO, generation confused
(or the alternative generation, whichever you prefer, the children of
the '90s, if you must.. :) ) listens to RD's music, albeit the
remixed version of his songs. Can anything of the sort be said about
your Salil Choudaries, and your SD Burmans, and your Naushads??
Ok, I feel like I've not only knocked off a bee-hive, but have actualy
stolen the honey out of it after doing so, I just hope that in a couple
of days, I won't feel like I would if I wasn't able to get away from
it in time, but not to worry, flame away... :)
> And, oh yes! We don't SHOUT on this newsgroup. NOT EVEN
> HUMBLY.
Second THAT motion.. *grin*
Rizwan