R D Burma use to copy a lot
Ravi Krishna
: "Ae mere humsafar" from Bazigaar is a DIRECT copy of the following
: song that is picturized on Kishore / Madhubala (?) in a car flying
: through the sky!
: Film: Mr. X in Bombay
: MD: Laxmikant Pyarelaal
: Singer: Kishore Kumar
I agree with the above. Before we blame Anu Malik let me tell you something.
Blatant copying has been going on for years. I know this will hurt R D
Burman fans in this NG but it's a fact that he also used to copy a LOT. I am
giving below some songs which RDB copied blatantly with no shame:-
Name of the song Singer Film
Chura liya hai tumn Asha and rafi Yaddon ki barat
Mehmooba Mehooba RDB Sholay
Jab andehara hota hai Asha and Bhupinder Raja Rani
Aaja meri bahon Kishore Kumar Some Anil Dawan
movie of early 70's.
Dekta hun koi ladki haseen Kishore Kumar Sanan teri kasam
Mil gaya hum ko Asha and KK Hum kisi se kam nahin
Tu hai meri jindagani Asha and Amit Kumar Inderjeet
and many more.
I am sure RDB must have copied much more. His source varies from english
songs to even pakistani song. The last song in the above list is lifted from
a pakistani song to glorify benazir bhutto.
The list mentioned above are authentic copy as I have myself heard the
original songs. Also Usha Uthup in a program in "Z" TV sang some of the above
mentioned songs (original). Jatin Lalit in some interview also showed how
RDB use to copy.
I have been accused of flame provoker but this is not a flame. I am only
telling a fact. I myself is a fan of RDB but I can't accept his copying.
On this count I give RDB very low marks.
I have bashed Rehman but I do concede that he is ORIGINAL. He may have done
some cut and paste but he adds something. Can't be termed as copying. What
RDB did was to copy it w/out any change.
Why blame Anu Malik or Bappi Lahiri.
Pradeep Dubey
Please list the 'original' songs with Pstats (if available).
Thanks a lot,
Pradeep
Ramesh Hariharan
>Blatant copying has been going on for years. I know this will hurt R D
>Burman fans in this NG but it's a fact that he also used to copy a LOT. I am
>giving below some songs which RDB copied blatantly with no shame:-
>
>Name of the song Singer Film
>
(Songs deleted)
You would significantly add credibility to your claim if you also tell us which songs where these copied from. Very obscure sources ?
>Why blame Anu Malik or Bappi Lahiri.
Give us all a break .. aasman ke taare aur
naali ke keede mein kaafi antar hota hai.
Waiting for your response
Ramesh Hariharan
Shailesh Phansalkar
Ravi Krishna <rkri...@informix.com> wrote:
>Deepak Dhamdhere (dee...@best.com) wrote:
>: "Ae mere humsafar" from Bazigaar is a DIRECT copy of the following
>: song that is picturized on Kishore / Madhubala (?) in a car flying
>: through the sky!
>: Film: Mr. X in Bombay
>: MD: Laxmikant Pyarelaal
>: Singer: Kishore Kumar
The song starts as "Khoobasoorat Hasina, Jaane jaa, jaane jaa"
and
I don't think it's Madhubala.
>I have bashed Rehman but I do concede that he is ORIGINAL. He may have done
>some cut and paste but he adds something. Can't be termed as copying. What
>RDB did was to copy it w/out any change.
>Why blame Anu Malik or Bappi Lahiri.
There are a lot of songs I am told which SDB and RDB made, which were
copied from Bangla folk. I have heard many of my Bengali speaking friends
sing the original ones.
- shailesh.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
LOOKING FOR A COOL SIGNATURE
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jairaj, Vinod
Are you sure that AE MERE HUMSAFAR is lifted out of a song from
Mr. X in Bombay?? I thought (almost sure) that it is lifted out of a song
from Love In Tokyo, AAJA RE AA ZARA, sung by Rafi, and composed by SJ.
Vinod
Vishal Ailawadhi
song was "Yahi Hai Tamanna". It sounds alot like "Saagar Kinare". I also
saw an interwiew in which he said that he lifted this song.
They are both still great songs, though. The good thing is that even in
the "copying" of a song, RD Burman, and many other MD's put their own
style into the songs. Not to point fingers, but songs like Tu Cheez Badi
Hai Mast Mast and such which are blatant copies don't have that
"something" added from the MD.
--Vishal Ailawadhi
Ravi Krishna
:There are a lot of songs I am told which SDB and RDB made, which were
:copied from Bangla folk. I have heard many of my Bengali speaking friends
:sing the original ones.
Copying folk song is OK. Folk song like public domain software is everyone's
property. RDB use to copy from english pop songs which I don't
approve of. However this is not the credit away from him when he composed
excellent indian tunes like in Amar Prem , Aandhi , Kinara , 1942 love story
and scores of others.
Harish Suvarna
>Deepak Dhamdhere (dee...@best.com) wrote:
>: "Ae mere humsafar" from Bazigaar is a DIRECT copy of the following
>: song that is picturized on Kishore / Madhubala (?) in a car flying
>: through the sky!
>: Film: Mr. X in Bombay
>: MD: Laxmikant Pyarelaal
>: Singer: Kishore Kumar
>
>Burman fans in this NG but it's a fact that he also used to copy a LOT. I am
>giving below some songs which RDB copied blatantly with no shame:-
>
>
>I have bashed Rehman but I do concede that he is ORIGINAL. He may have done
>some cut and paste but he adds something. Can't be termed as copying. What
>RDB did was to copy it w/out any change.
>
>Why blame Anu Malik or Bappi Lahiri.
I think people have basic doubts about creativity of these kinds of MDs.
Pancham Daa gave many creative and original compositions. Even if he copies
some
songs in between here and there we do not mind. MD is the ONLY job
in the world where the fellow needs to be consistently creative every time.
MDs like the above two could not establish that kind of impression on the
audience. That is why they face lot of criticism.
--
Harish Kumar
su...@mti.sgi.com
University of Washington
: I was listening to an old song by Madan Mohan from Aap Ki Parchaiyaan. The
: saw an interwiew in which he said that he lifted this song.
Yes, he did say in "phool khile hain gulshan gulshan" (tabassum's
programme), that this song was quite similar to another song by SD
(and i think he mentioned "thandi hawayen, lahraa ke aayen", and not
"yahi hai tmanna..").
I also read (i think in an article in Illus. weekly) that this song
by SD was copied by someone (MM?) before RD did. Anyone knows which
was the 'first' copy of the song ?
-nitin
Kishor
I think it was Shankar Jaikishan who brought so called westren influence in
film songs. I think they were the one who successfully started using heavy
orchestra(comparitively speaking) and western equipments. Then this must have
happened before RDB. I also think that RDB's initial songs were not that
affected by his bend towrds western music. Although he used different
equipments the tunes essentially remained Indian. It is only his later songs
that started to have western-tune-copy stuff. If we listen to his tunes for
Amar Prem ,KatiPatang one can get an idea. But his tunes in late seventies
started showing more direct adaptations ( I cannot call them as lifting ;-) ).
This influence was even less on emotional kind of songs. It was felt more on
lighter numbers ( some of them sung by himself).
Any views?.
bye,
Kishor.
Neeraj Deshmukh - The Falcon
> I also think that RDB's initial songs were not that affected by his
> bend towrds western music.
If I recall correctly RD debuted as an MD in 1962 (with Lata
singing 'ghar aaja ghir aayi badraa' --- something very easily
confirmed on the HMV RD Burman GC). 'Bhoot Bangla' came out within 2-3
years and it has Manna Dey going rock 'n roll in 'aao twist
karein'. Even in his asstt. MD days (with SDB) he was into western
tunes (e.g. 'baiThe hai kya us ke paas' in Jewel Thief is supposedly
entirely RD's creation). So I disagree with your observation above.
RD's ability always has been to fuse western and Indian music
with a very distinctly unique flavour that remains unmatched, and this
can be inferred even from his very early songs... (check out the 'Asha
sings for RD' GC on HMV as well for more examples)...
> Although he used different equipments the tunes essentially remained
> Indian. It is only his later songs that started to have
> western-tune-copy stuff. If we listen to his tunes for Amar Prem
> ,KatiPatang one can get an idea. But his tunes in late seventies
> started showing more direct adaptations ( I cannot call them as
> lifting ;-) ).
Can you name a few instances of this 'adaptation'? I know of a
few copies (even 'complete' copies) of songs by RD and I'll list them
here, but I'm still waiting for people (especially Ravi who started
this thread to substantiate his claim). The frequency of copying was
highest in the mid-to-late '80s though (when he had two heart
surgeries and was very far behind his deadlines).
Examples: R D Burman *did* copy here.
1. Satte pe Satta 'zindagi mil ke bitaayenge' is a complete
adaptation of 'The longest day', a WW2
marching song that also found its way in some
hollywood war flick.
2. Rocky The saxophone piece at the beginning of 'hum
tum se mile'. Don't recall the name of the
artist or the song (I basically remembered the
English song as the one that sounds like Rocky)
;-)
3. Paalay Khan The beginning of 'kaabul se aaya hai'. Again,
the saxophone is from an early '80s rock hit.
Genesis? Police? Forgot again... :-(
However, those still unclear on where I stand on this whole
'inspiration vs plagiarization' issue might want to dig back in the
annals of RMIM and read my related post of a couple of months back.
> This influence was even less on emotional kind of songs. It was felt
> more on lighter numbers ( some of them sung by himself).
Now you are only thinking of Aandhi and Amar Prem. :-) Try
'aisa samaa na hota' (Lata) from Zameen Aasmaan, 'tujh se naaraz
naheen zindagi' (Anup Ghoshal) from Maasoom, and for that matter 'yeh
zindagi kuchh bhi sahi' (RD himself) from Romance.
This guy was the most versatile MD to happen to Indian music.
Ciao,
(The RDB rules) ND
\____Neeraj Deshmukh__________...@isip.msstate.edu____/
Office: ISIP, MSU, 434 Simrall, Hardy Road, MS State MS 39762
Ph: (601) 325-8335 Fax: (601) 325-3149
Home: 100 Logan Drive #D, Starkville MS 39759 Ph: (601) 323-2689
\_http://www.isip.msstate.edu/____Disc Space - The Final Frontier..._/
Neeraj Deshmukh - The Falcon
I am posting this on behalf of Preetham Gopalaswamy, who for some
reason couldn't post it and hence emailed it to me.
Ciao,
ND
==========Message from Preetham Gopalaswamy==============================
I cannot post on the net. So I will respond to you and you can post it on
the net IF YOU WANT TO. These were just some random thoughts on RDB the
composer.
Initial disclaimer that I must put forth is that I am a big fan of RDB. So
this article is not based on personal emotion like the recent SJ/Naushad
debates. However, I also believe that RD is given a god-like status on rmim
which is not entirely necessary. RMIM seems to have a hard time distinguishing
between liking a MD or singer or actor a lot and elevating them to a pedestal
where they believe that nothing wrong could ever done by that artiste.
I have seen people do this with Mukesh, with Naushad, with SJ, with Lata, and
the list goes on. I am a die-hard fan of the Mangeshkar sisters (Asha and
Lata), and I personally happen to prefer Asha to Lata. However, that does not
make Lata any less of a singer. My reasons for preferring Asha are purely
personal; they may not even necessarily be logical. So, based on my preference
it is hard to argue the merits or demerits of either Lata or Asha. That debate
has to be purely based on their abilities, removing all personal references
where-ever possible. I am not sure where I was going with this example more
than perhaps as a disclaimer lest someone choose to take some part of what I
say about RD personally.
> In article <4g2u79$p...@bcrkh13.bnr.ca> Kishor <des...@bnr.ca> writes:
>
> > I also think that RDB's initial songs were not that affected by his
> > bend towrds western music.
>
> If I recall correctly RD debuted as an MD in 1962 (with Lata
> singing 'ghar aaja ghir aayi badraa' --- something very easily
> confirmed on the HMV RD Burman GC). 'Bhoot Bangla' came out within 2-3
> years and it has Manna Dey going rock 'n roll in 'aao twist
> karein'. Even in his asstt. MD days (with SDB) he was into western
> tunes (e.g. 'baiThe hai kya us ke paas' in Jewel Thief is supposedly
> entirely RD's creation). So I disagree with your observation above.
As you point out Neeraj, Kishore's initial hypothesis was untrue. It becomes
even more obvious when one thinks about the music in "ChhoTe Nawaab" itself.
One does not have to go to "Bhoot Bangla" for that.
While "ghar aaja ghir aayi" is a very "Indian" composition (define this phrase
as meaning a tune that has little to no influence from western music), songs
like "Jeenewaale muskuraake jee", "Matwaali aaNkhoNwaali" and "Aaj hua mera dil
matwaala" in the same film have strong spanish and other influences.
By the time RD composed "Teesri Manzil", there was no doubt as to the fact that
a lot of his influences came from the west.
I always find it amusing how people on rmim make the distinction between Bappi
and RDB when it comes to being "influenced" by the West. Bappi may be more
blatant, but that does not negate some of the fantastic tunes he has composed
over the years, which are not copied. While people are willing to grant all
sorts of artistic discounts to RDB, similar ones are not given to Bappi. The
latter is put in the same category of no-talent hacks like Anand-Milind (who
have produced nothing of lasting value other than QSQT) or Nadeem-Shravan.
Bappi has gone for the quick buck, sacrificing quality at several points, but
so have a lot of composers over the years. Perhaps it is Bappi's unashamed
in-your-face blatant attitude that angers people, but somewhere down the line,
his talents have been forgotten/ignored. Bappi is NOT the greatest, he is
not even in the 10 best list (of all time), but ignoring him is like throwing
the proverbial baby out with the bathwater.
BUT, when it comes to borrowing from the west, Bappi can be put in exactly the
same category as RD. However, while evaluating the composer as a whole, RD may
come out ahead on several other counts such as creativity, or lasting value of
the music, or strong classical/folk roots in the music.
> RD's ability always has been to fuse western and Indian music
> with a very distinctly unique flavour that remains unmatched, and this
> can be inferred even from his very early songs... (check out the 'Asha
> sings for RD' GC on HMV as well for more examples)...
While this ability to fuse western and Indian music is certainly a cornerstone
of RD's ability, it is certainly not unique to RD and not in flavor either.
C. Ramachandra had been doing it for years as had O. P. Nayyar. While CR was
more of a purist, OPN combined them typically by having a westernized "mukhDa"
and a typically Indian (probably Punjabi) "Dholak" rhythm in the "antara".
Naushad (who apparently was quite an accomplished piano player) used a lot of
western influences in films as early as "Dastaan". The introductory music to
the Suraiyya song "Aaya mere dil me tu, ban ke dil ki aarzoo" from that film
always blows my mind when I put it into the context of when it was composed;
and as to "Yeh saawan rut tum aur ham" by Rafi/Suraiyya, well both the scene
and the composition itself speak volumes for the influence of the west. And
remember this was happening when RD was still in diapers (figuratively speaking
of course :-) :-) ).
> > Although he used different equipments the tunes essentially remained
> > Indian. It is only his later songs that started to have
> > western-tune-copy stuff. If we listen to his tunes for Amar Prem
> > ,KatiPatang one can get an idea. But his tunes in late seventies
> > started showing more direct adaptations ( I cannot call them as
> > lifting ;-) ).
>
> Can you name a few instances of this 'adaptation'? I know of a
> few copies (even 'complete' copies) of songs by RD and I'll list them
> here, but I'm still waiting for people (especially Ravi who started
> this thread to substantiate his claim). The frequency of copying was
> highest in the mid-to-late '80s though (when he had two heart
> surgeries and was very far behind his deadlines).
"Ham Kisi Se Kam Nahi" had "Tere liye zamaana tere liye" which is a direct copy
of "Mama Mia" by ABBA, "Mehbooba Mehbooba" from "Sholay" was a direct lift of a
song "I love you" by I think a Greek singer. There may have been more, but
the more obscure a tune, the less difficult it is to identify the original.
But that is not my major problem with RD. Copying is the best form of flattery
is the common proverb, and I shall not hold it against him. My problem is with
how similar his tunes started to sound. The style of instrumentation was the
same, the tunes were similar in style. What you refer to as his unique flavor
earlier is actually a repetitive quality which I find limiting. I felt like
RD took what worked in his tunes and re-used that formula several tunes to put
out other tunes (many of which were beautiful, because they came from a winning
formula), but the truth is that they were formula based. He did break the mold
quite a few times and it was breathtaking when he did that. Of the recent ones,
"Ijaazat" and "1942, A Love Story" were in that class, not too much else.
"Parinda", in case some people had not recognized had atleast 1, maybe 2
lifts. I know that "tumse milke, aisa laga tumse milke" is a lift from "When I
need you"; I think I have heard the original of "pyaar ke moD par" on the radio,
but since I cannot recall the original, I shall give RD the benefit of doubt
here.
> This guy was the most versatile MD to happen to Indian music.
He is most certainly NOT. He is certainly one of the MDs in the Hindi film
industry who enjoys the distinct honor of being among several other greats like
CR, SJ, SDB, etc etc etc. who composed a versatile variety of tunes. He is in
a class of greats, but is certainly not unique or the best.
P
Ashok
In article <ufd97dt...@isip01.isip.msstate.edu>,
>
> This guy was the most versatile MD to happen to Indian music.
>
>
> (The RDB rules) ND
>
> \____Neeraj Deshmukh__________...@isip.msstate.edu____/
>
Hi Neeraj,
I am trying to recall something I read in the "Defending Anu Malik" thread.
Wasn't it you who said words to the effect that you would never post a claim
'MD X > MD Y'?
Just checking. :)) Sorry if my memory is faulty.
Ashok
Ikram Ahmed Khan
: Hi Neeraj,
: I am trying to recall something I read in the "Defending Anu Malik" thread.
: Wasn't it you who said words to the effect that you would never post a claim
: 'MD X > MD Y'?
: Just checking. :)) Sorry if my memory is faulty.
Maybe the world cup is on my mind, but this is definitely not cricket,
sir!
Needless to say, I add the smilies here and apologise for ruffled
feathers everywhere.
:))
Peace for everybody.
{ And yes, that does seem to be a hard thing to wish for, no?? }
Later,
Ikram.
: Ashok
Nikhil Patel
: I am posting this on behalf of Preetham Gopalaswamy, who for some
: reason couldn't post it and hence emailed it to me.
: Ciao,
: ND
: ==========Message from Preetham Gopalaswamy==============================
: I cannot post on the net. So I will respond to you and you can post it on
: the net IF YOU WANT TO. These were just some random thoughts on RDB the
: composer.
: Initial disclaimer that I must put forth is that I am a big fan of RDB. So
: this article is not based on personal emotion like the recent SJ/Naushad
: debates. However, I also believe that RD is given a god-like status on rmim
: which is not entirely necessary. RMIM seems to have a hard time distinguishing
: between liking a MD or singer or actor a lot and elevating them to a pedestal
: where they believe that nothing wrong could ever done by that artiste.
: I have seen people do this with Mukesh, with Naushad, with SJ, with Lata, and
: the list goes on. I am a die-hard fan of the Mangeshkar sisters (Asha and
: Lata), and I personally happen to prefer Asha to Lata. However, that does not
: make Lata any less of a singer. My reasons for preferring Asha are purely
: personal; they may not even necessarily be logical. So, based on my preference
: it is hard to argue the merits or demerits of either Lata or Asha. That debate
: has to be purely based on their abilities, removing all personal references
: where-ever possible. I am not sure where I was going with this example more
: than perhaps as a disclaimer lest someone choose to take some part of what I
: say about RD personally.
: As you point out Neeraj, Kishore's initial hypothesis was untrue. It becomes
: even more obvious when one thinks about the music in "ChhoTe Nawaab" itself.
: One does not have to go to "Bhoot Bangla" for that.
: While "ghar aaja ghir aayi" is a very "Indian" composition (define this phrase
: as meaning a tune that has little to no influence from western music), songs
: like "Jeenewaale muskuraake jee", "Matwaali aaNkhoNwaali" and "Aaj hua mera dil
: matwaala" in the same film have strong spanish and other influences.
: By the time RD composed "Teesri Manzil", there was no doubt as to the fact that
: a lot of his influences came from the west.
: I always find it amusing how people on rmim make the distinction between Bappi
: and RDB when it comes to being "influenced" by the West. Bappi may be more
: blatant, but that does not negate some of the fantastic tunes he has composed
: over the years, which are not copied. While people are willing to grant all
: sorts of artistic discounts to RDB, similar ones are not given to Bappi. The
: latter is put in the same category of no-talent hacks like Anand-Milind (who
: have produced nothing of lasting value other than QSQT) or Nadeem-Shravan.
: Bappi has gone for the quick buck, sacrificing quality at several points, but
: so have a lot of composers over the years. Perhaps it is Bappi's unashamed
: in-your-face blatant attitude that angers people, but somewhere down the line,
: his talents have been forgotten/ignored. Bappi is NOT the greatest, he is
: not even in the 10 best list (of all time), but ignoring him is like throwing
: the proverbial baby out with the bathwater.
: BUT, when it comes to borrowing from the west, Bappi can be put in exactly the
: same category as RD. However, while evaluating the composer as a whole, RD may
Hmm, almost but not exactly.
: come out ahead on several other counts such as creativity, or lasting value of
: the music, or strong classical/folk roots in the music.
: While this ability to fuse western and Indian music is certainly a cornerstone
: of RD's ability, it is certainly not unique to RD and not in flavor either.
: C. Ramachandra had been doing it for years as had O. P. Nayyar. While CR was
: more of a purist, OPN combined them typically by having a westernized "mukhDa"
: and a typically Indian (probably Punjabi) "Dholak" rhythm in the "antara".
: Naushad (who apparently was quite an accomplished piano player) used a lot of
: western influences in films as early as "Dastaan". The introductory music to
: the Suraiyya song "Aaya mere dil me tu, ban ke dil ki aarzoo" from that film
: always blows my mind when I put it into the context of when it was composed;
: and as to "Yeh saawan rut tum aur ham" by Rafi/Suraiyya, well both the scene
: and the composition itself speak volumes for the influence of the west. And
: remember this was happening when RD was still in diapers (figuratively speaking
: of course :-) :-) ).
: "Ham Kisi Se Kam Nahi" had "Tere liye zamaana tere liye" which is a direct copy
: of "Mama Mia" by ABBA, "Mehbooba Mehbooba" from "Sholay" was a direct lift of a
: song "I love you" by I think a Greek singer. There may have been more, but
: the more obscure a tune, the less difficult it is to identify the original.
: But that is not my major problem with RD. Copying is the best form of flattery
: is the common proverb, and I shall not hold it against him. My problem is with
: how similar his tunes started to sound. The style of instrumentation was the
: same, the tunes were similar in style. What you refer to as his unique flavor
: earlier is actually a repetitive quality which I find limiting. I felt like
: RD took what worked in his tunes and re-used that formula several tunes to put
: out other tunes (many of which were beautiful, because they came from a winning
: formula), but the truth is that they were formula based. He did break the mold
: quite a few times and it was breathtaking when he did that. Of the recent ones,
: "Ijaazat" and "1942, A Love Story" were in that class, not too much else.
My grouse exactly, though I love Pancham. In fact, this same trait is
showing up in Rahman, methinks.
: "Parinda", in case some people had not recognized had atleast 1, maybe 2
: lifts. I know that "tumse milke, aisa laga tumse milke" is a lift from "When I
: need you"; I think I have heard the original of "pyaar ke moD par" on the radio,
: but since I cannot recall the original, I shall give RD the benefit of doubt
: here.
: > This guy was the most versatile MD to happen to Indian music.
: He is most certainly NOT. He is certainly one of the MDs in the Hindi film
: industry who enjoys the distinct honor of being among several other greats like
: CR, SJ, SDB, etc etc etc. who composed a versatile variety of tunes. He is in
: a class of greats, but is certainly not unique or the best.
: P
Hey, very good (for a change) article.
Thanks,
Nikhil.
Pradeep Dubey
of stalwarts like: RDB, Naushad, SJ, I request you and others
(especially: Vish, Rajan, Sami, Ashok, Snehal) to post a similar criticism
of Salil C. I have certainly, over a long period of time,
elevated him by now to almost a god-like status and believe me,
I am quite ready to listen to reasons to bring him down
from this pedestal.
:-) life is getting too complicated and it would certainly help
if I had fewer gods to worship ... :-) I need to cut down my 'pooja' time ...
Thanks in advance.
Pradeep
Venkatesh Krishnaswamy
Please! Salil C IS god! Someone will inevitably bring up the
following facts:
1) The Mozart Symphony #40 connection to"Itna na mujhse tu pyar badha"
2) His reuse of tunes in many languages (e.g. "Jiya laage naa")
3) His reuse of tunes in the same language, as interlude music
(e.g. "Ghadi ghadi" as the interlude in "Aaja re pardesi")
4) His "inspiration" from Bangla/Nepali folk tunes (e.g. "Chota sa ghar hoga")
These things pale into insignificance when you look at the
sum total of the Salil C magic. Don't let anyone persuade
you otherwise: Mr C belongs on that pedestal!
Venky Krishnaswamy
Neeraj Deshmukh - The Falcon
Dear Preetham,
Thanks for a wonderful response to my post... Here are a few
comments on what you said.
> Initial disclaimer that I must put forth is that I am a big fan of
> RDB. So this article is not based on personal emotion like the
> recent SJ/Naushad debates.
:-) I stay miles way from those, too... And as I read more of
your response I realized that we are both esentially saying the same
thing in many places. There are some where we differ, of course, and
that is probably more a matter of personal tastes and biases.
> However, I also believe that RD is given a god-like status on rmim
> which is not entirely necessary. RMIM seems to have a hard time
> distinguishing between liking a MD or singer or actor a lot and
> elevating them to a pedestal where they believe that nothing wrong
> could ever done by that artiste. I have seen people do this with
> Mukesh, with Naushad, with SJ, with Lata, and the list goes on. I
> am a die-hard fan of the Mangeshkar sisters (Asha and Lata), and I
> personally happen to prefer Asha to Lata. However, that does not
> make Lata any less of a singer. My reasons for preferring Asha are
> purely personal; they may not even necessarily be logical. So,
> based on my preference it is hard to argue the merits or demerits of
> either Lata or Asha. That debate has to be purely based on their
> abilities, removing all personal references where-ever possible. I
> am not sure where I was going with this example more than perhaps as
> a disclaimer lest someone choose to take some part of what I say
> about RD personally.
I agree a hundred percent with everything you said above (down
to personally favoring Asha over Lata :-) ). Personally for me that
disclaimer was wholly unnecessary, but I see it's need when this is
going to be on the net and people are going to jump on you right away
as a heretic... :-)
> I always find it amusing how people on rmim make the distinction
> between Bappi and RDB when it comes to being "influenced" by the
> West. Bappi may be more blatant, but that does not negate some of
> the fantastic tunes he has composed over the years, which are not
> copied. While people are willing to grant all sorts of artistic
> discounts to RDB, similar ones are not given to Bappi. The latter
> is put in the same category of no-talent hacks like Anand-Milind
> (who have produced nothing of lasting value other than QSQT) or
> Nadeem-Shravan. Bappi has gone for the quick buck, sacrificing
> quality at several points, but so have a lot of composers over the
> years. Perhaps it is Bappi's unashamed in-your-face blatant
> attitude that angers people, but somewhere down the line, his
> talents have been forgotten/ignored. Bappi is NOT the greatest, he
> is not even in the 10 best list (of all time), but ignoring him is
> like throwing the proverbial baby out with the bathwater.
Agreed again. You might have come across a recent humorous
article by Satish in which I happened to be the Bappi-defender... And
all I had to do was to mention in a previous post about how he's
awesome in Chalte Chalte, TooTe Khilaune, Ek Baar Kaho etc. I even
like good tunes made by Annu Malik (who seems to be the current
favorite for public bashing) and oh sacrilege, actively dislike
Rehman's (the God for the day) more synthetic trash...
> BUT, when it comes to borrowing from the west, Bappi can be put in
> exactly the same category as RD.
Ahem! This IMO is a matter of outlook (a guy stealing a buck =
another stealing a million, after all both are thieves). And we again
get back into inspiration vs the short-cut to success debate here....
I am not saying that every song copied by RD was an inspiration, of
course, but there is certainly a scale difference. The packaging when
it came to the public (the Indianization of a foreign tune) is also an
important consideration...
> While this ability to fuse western and Indian music is certainly a
> cornerstone of RD's ability, it is certainly not unique to RD and
> not in flavor either. C. Ramachandra had been doing it for years as
Oh, maybe you got me wrong here --- I didn't mean to say that
RD was the only one who could do this or was the best one (in fact in
the current --- ie post '70s MDs I hold Rajesh Roshan a better master
of fusion), but that he had a distinct mark of his own on the music he
made. Something akin to RR's muted congos, to give an analogy,
maybe... Western tunes have been around since the west was here :-)
and every MD worth his/her mettle has dabbled in them... The
uniqueness I said pertains to the flavor, and that certainly is beyond
doubt (no song by RD ever puts me in a doubt as to the identity of its
MD, but I can't say that for the others).
> "Ham Kisi Se Kam Nahi" had "Tere liye zamaana tere liye" which is a
> direct copy of "Mama Mia" by ABBA, "Mehbooba Mehbooba" from "Sholay"
> was a direct lift of a song "I love you" by I think a Greek singer.
> There may have been more, but the more obscure a tune, the less
> difficult it is to identify the original. But that is not my major
> problem with RD. Copying is the best form of flattery is the common
> proverb, and I shall not hold it against him.
Goodie... :-) We return to my theory of plagiarization
again... And again, we concur.
> My problem is with how similar his tunes started to sound. The
> style of instrumentation was the same, the tunes were similar in
> style. What you refer to as his unique flavor earlier is actually a
> repetitive quality which I find limiting.
:-) Now we get into opinions... I do not feel so, but I
respect your opinion and let it be.
> I felt like RD took what worked in his tunes and re-used that
> formula several tunes to put out other tunes (many of which were
> beautiful, because they came from a winning formula), but the truth
> is that they were formula based.
Again, can't agree. I think it is easy to confuse style with
formula. None of RD's tunes have sounded stale to me, they have been
distinctly identifiable. I have found fresh-sounding music from RD
even in sloppy movies in the late '80s and early '90s (when he was in
poor health and clearly in semi-retirement) like 'Tum karo vaada'.
> > This guy was the most versatile MD to happen to Indian music.
> He is most certainly NOT. He is certainly one of the MDs in the
> Hindi film industry who enjoys the distinct honor of being among
> several other greats like CR, SJ, SDB, etc etc etc. who composed a
> versatile variety of tunes. He is in a class of greats, but is
> certainly not unique or the best.
;-) "Best" is a dangerous word to use on RMIM, and on a more
serious note plain wrong unless one defines a criterion for
comparison. Versatility is something that I *will* score highest for
RD, which does not take any credit away from any of the other greats
(even in terms of the variety of tunes composed), given the sheer
range and the ability to experiment and evolve his music displayed by
RD over three decades. (And I'm surprized to find no mention of Salil
Choudhuary in your mail, he's another one I can identify most easily
--- a distinct style but yet very versatile).
A very interesting discussion. My thanks and regards...
Ciao,
Vishal Ailawadhi
>In article <4ga38i$l...@watnews1.watson.ibm.com>,
>Pradeep Dubey <pra...@watson.ibm.com> wrote:
>>Preetham: great analysis on RDB. After these strings of criticisms
>>of stalwarts like: RDB, Naushad, SJ, I request you and others
>>(especially: Vish, Rajan, Sami, Ashok, Snehal) to post a similar criticism
>>of Salil C. I have certainly, over a long period of time,
>>elevated him by now to almost a god-like status and believe me,
>>I am quite ready to listen to reasons to bring him down
>>from this pedestal.
Venky Writes . . .
>
>3) His reuse of tunes in the same language, as interlude music
> (e.g. "Ghadi ghadi" as the interlude in "Aaja re pardesi")
>
All other points agreed on, I find Madhumati some of Salil Chowdhary's
best work as a whole movie. But here, both Ghadi Ghadi and Aaja Re Pardesi
are from the same movie. It is not so uncommon to see a tune from one song
being put into the music of another song in the same movie.
One question though, I've been meaning to ask this for a while. Salil
Chowdhary has put out some great songs. Only, besides Madhumati, I've yet
to find a movie with all good songs. Any views?
--Vishal Ailawadhi
Venkatesh Krishnaswamy
Vishal Ailawadhi <vis...@ucla.edu> wrote:
>
>One question though, I've been meaning to ask this for a while. Salil
>Chowdhary has put out some great songs. Only, besides Madhumati, I've yet
>to find a movie with all good songs. Any views?
>
>--Vishal Ailawadhi
>
I would add Anand (and MAYbe Maya) to that list. In general, I would
tend to agree with you, though. My conjecture on the reason for this
is that Salil Chowdhary was a "niche" composer. His particular
speciality was what I would term the "pretty" melody. I can't really
associate any songs with him that are very dramatic or heavy or
"noisy" or .... I think it is pretty difficult to consistently
score in a fairly narrow domain. Maybe someone who is more familiar
with his work in Bengali can shed more light on this (or contradict
this view). I think he has composed FAR more songs in Bengali than
in Hindi.
Venky Krishnaswamy
Neha Desai
> One question though, I've been meaning to ask this for a while. Salil
> Chowdhary has put out some great songs. Only, besides Madhumati, I've yet
> to find a movie with all good songs. Any views?
> --Vishal Ailawadhi
I would put ANAND in the category of "a movie with all good songs"..
even though it had only 4 songs...all of them were good..
-maine tere liye hi saat rang ke sapne
-kahi door jab din dhal jaaye
-zindagi kaisi hai paheli...
-na...jiya laage na...
i am sure there are many others...but this is the only one i cud think
of when i saw this posting.
Neha
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
chhoti chhoti baaton ki hain yaadein badi...
bhooley nahi...beeti huyi ek chhoti ghadi...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chetan Vinchhi
>
>
>One question though, I've been meaning to ask this for a while. Salil
>Chowdhary has put out some great songs. Only, besides Madhumati, I've yet
>to find a movie with all good songs. Any views?
>
Oh, pick up any Salil C movie !
>--Vishal Ailawadhi
>
>
:)
Chetan.
Ravi Krishna
: Vishal Ailawadhi (vis...@ucla.edu) wrote:
:I was listening to an old song by Madan Mohan from Aap Ki Parchaiyaan. The
: -nitin
The song was Rahe na rahe hum from Mamta(1967). MD was Raushan.
Shalini Razdan
changing the subject,:-)) but
I have a question that's been puzzling me for a while. What was
RDB's first movie?
General consensus seems to point towards Chote Nawab(1961), but
I have a HMV
Binaca Geetmala tape that countdowns the top 12 songs of 1958.
Coming in at No. 11
for the year is a Rafi solo "Zara ruk ja, pyare ruk ja" from the
movie Sitaron ke agae
with music by yours truly R. D. Burman!! Does any one know
anything about this movie
in terms of its music director(s)? I would be curious to know
if the HMV info is correct!
Shalini
>==========Neeraj Deshmukh - The Falcon, 2/19/96==========
Vishal Ailawadhi
>>
>>One question though, I've been meaning to ask this for a while. Salil
>>Chowdhary has put out some great songs. Only, besides Madhumati, I've yet
>>to find a movie with all good songs. Any views?
>>
>
> Oh, pick up any Salil C movie !
>
>>
> :)
> Chetan.
Oh, come now. My point is that some of his songs are of such high calibre.
Others tend to be just "fillers" for the album. First look at Madhumati.
All of the songs were great. From "Suhana Safar" to "Aaja Re Pardesi",
"Ghadi Ghadi Mora Dil", "Chad Gaye O Paapi Bichhua", et al. It was a
treasure of an album. On the other hand, besides the following from these
movies that I thought of off the top of my head, the rest of the songs
were pretty ordinary:
"O Sajna" - Parakh
"Aha Rhim Jhim Ke Yeh" - Usne Kaha Tha
Title Song - Prem Patra
"Ja Re Ud Ja Re Panchhi" - Maya
"Tasveer Teri Dil Mein" - Maya
"Kahin Door Jab Din" - Anand
etc.
Just my opinion. I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes here. I just
think he was a great MD (and one of my favorites) but not consistantly
great. Again, I can't speak for his Bengali songs here.
--Vishal Ailawadhi
Arun Verma
Ashok <ADhar...@WorldBank.Org> wrote:
>
>In article <Dn3M2...@attatl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM>,
>>
>> Hate to interrupt this exchange of goodwill, that too by
>> changing the subject,:-)) but I have a question that's been puzzling me
>> for a while. What was RDB's first movie?
>
>> General consensus seems to point towards Chote Nawab(1961), but
>> I have a HMV Binaca Geetmala tape that countdowns the top 12 songs
>> of 1958. Coming in at No. 11 for the year is a Rafi solo "Zara ruk ja,
>> pyare ruk ja" from the movie Sitaron ke agae with music by yours truly
>> R. D. Burman!! Does any one know anything about this movie in terms of
>> its music director(s)? I would be curious to know
>> if the HMV info is correct!
>>
>>
>> Shalini
>
>
>
>
>Ashok
>
True, Ashok. But It may have been possible that music for this particular
song was done by RDB...afterall it is alleged that RDB did the music for
"Ae meri topi palat ke aa" (FUNTOOSH). There is no confusion about RDB's
first "movie"(CHOTTE NAWAB), however.
-Arun
Pradeep Dubey
|> ve...@indra.info.att.com (Venkatesh Krishnaswamy) wrote:
|> >In article <4ga38i$l...@watnews1.watson.ibm.com>,
|> >Pradeep Dubey <pra...@watson.ibm.com> wrote:
|> >>Preetham: great analysis on RDB. After these strings of criticisms
|> >>of stalwarts like: RDB, Naushad, SJ, I request you and others
|> >>(especially: Vish, Rajan, Sami, Ashok, Snehal) to post a similar criticism
|> >>of Salil C. I have certainly, over a long period of time,
|> >>elevated him by now to almost a god-like status and believe me,
|> >>I am quite ready to listen to reasons to bring him down
|> >>from this pedestal.
|>
|>
|> Venky Writes . . .
|>
|> >
|> >3) His reuse of tunes in the same language, as interlude music
|> > (e.g. "Ghadi ghadi" as the interlude in "Aaja re pardesi")
|> >
|>
|> All other points agreed on, I find Madhumati some of Salil Chowdhary's
|> best work as a whole movie. But here, both Ghadi Ghadi and Aaja Re Pardesi
|> are from the same movie. It is not so uncommon to see a tune from one song
|> being put into the music of another song in the same movie.
|>
|> Chowdhary has put out some great songs. Only, besides Madhumati, I've yet
|> to find a movie with all good songs. Any views?
Vishal,
You mean to say you can find a 'not good' song in any of the following
Salil C movies:
Anand
Maya
Do Bigha Zameen
Musafir
Jaagate Raho
Parakh
Chhayaa
Kabuliwala
Annadata
Choti Si Baat
Rajnigandha
Jeena Yahan
Anand Mahal
Mere Apne
Should I keep going ... :-) I guess it's time to stop.
If you can a list one or more 'not good' song in any of the
above, please do so.
Pradeep
|>
|> --Vishal Ailawadhi
|>
|>
Ashok
In article <4ga38i$l...@watnews1.watson.ibm.com>, <pra...@watson.ibm.com> writes:
>
> Preetham: great analysis on RDB. After these strings of criticisms
> of stalwarts like: RDB, Naushad, SJ, I request you and others
> (especially: Vish, Rajan, Sami, Ashok, Snehal) to post a similar criticism
> of Salil C. I have certainly, over a long period of time,
> elevated him by now to almost a god-like status and believe me,
> I am quite ready to listen to reasons to bring him down
> from this pedestal.
>
> if I had fewer gods to worship ... :-) I need to cut down my 'pooja' time ...
>
> Thanks in advance.
> Pradeep
>
That's interesting, Pradeep. I thought people *went* to god because they found
life to be too complicated! I am a thorough-going agnostic alright in all
respects, but generally you will have to accomplish your own deicide. Especially
in this case, I'll have to pass. What can I say about an artist who has improved
on Mozart!
Ashok
PS: BTW, I am serious. Consider the instrumental prelude in the Talat-Lata duet
from 'Chhaaya', just before the start of the vocal melody, which is the same as the
very first theme of the first movement of Symphony No. 40. The prelude would have
been a fitting opening for the symphony itself, before the introduction of the
first theme.
Arun Verma
Vishal Ailawadhi <vis...@ucla.edu> wrote:
>cvin...@telogy.com (Chetan Vinchhi) wrote:
>
>>>
>>>One question though, I've been meaning to ask this for a while. Salil
>>>Chowdhary has put out some great songs. Only, besides Madhumati, I've yet
>>>to find a movie with all good songs. Any views?
>>>
>>
>>
>
>>>
>> :)
>> Chetan.
>
>Oh, come now. My point is that some of his songs are of such high calibre.
>Others tend to be just "fillers" for the album. First look at Madhumati.
>All of the songs were great. From "Suhana Safar" to "Aaja Re Pardesi",
>"Ghadi Ghadi Mora Dil", "Chad Gaye O Paapi Bichhua", et al. It was a
>treasure of an album. On the other hand, besides the following from these
>movies that I thought of off the top of my head, the rest of the songs
>were pretty ordinary:
>
>"O Sajna" - Parakh
>"Aha Rhim Jhim Ke Yeh" - Usne Kaha Tha
>Title Song - Prem Patra
>"Ja Re Ud Ja Re Panchhi" - Maya
>"Tasveer Teri Dil Mein" - Maya
>"Kahin Door Jab Din" - Anand
You only seem to like 'Kahin door .." from Anand. What about 'na jiya laage
na' ..an excellent composition. And ofcourse some mighty chorus in 'Zindagi
kaisi hai paheli.." and great melody in "Maine tere liye hi..".
Lets look at Maya..well, to be frank I don't like "Tasveer teri dil mein"..
that much, but there are other songs which are my favorites...."Koi sone ke
dilwala..", and excellently done chorus in "Ae dil kahan teri manzil.."
listen carefully to the chorus, if you haven't..its mindblowing!
Now let me step back and give other RMIMers a chance to take a shot at your case.
Arun
Ashok
> changing the subject,:-)) but I have a question that's been puzzling me
> for a while. What was RDB's first movie?
> General consensus seems to point towards Chote Nawab(1961), but
> I have a HMV Binaca Geetmala tape that countdowns the top 12 songs
> of 1958. Coming in at No. 11 for the year is a Rafi solo "Zara ruk ja,
> pyare ruk ja" from the movie Sitaron ke agae with music by yours truly
> R. D. Burman!! Does any one know anything about this movie in terms of
> its music director(s)? I would be curious to know
> if the HMV info is correct!
>
>
> Shalini
The music director of 'Sitaron Se Aage (1958)' is SD Burman.
Ashok
Ramesh Hariharan
Ketan, nice article on RDB. I am actually real upset that the BeeperLady
is even mentioned in the same paragraph as RDB. For each of his
western/cogged tune, RD had a large number of fascinating songs. To me
Amar Prem is an all-time classic, while Aandhi, Masoom and other work
with Gulzar/KK certainly belong in the top bracket (just the fact that
SJ, Naushad and MM composed there great tunes earlier doesn't reserve
the top echelons exclusively for them!).
How many decent movies does Beep-beep have ? I am not no expert, all I
could come up with is:
Namak Halaal
Chalte Chalte
Sharaabhi
That's it ??? While much credit is given for the title song from Chalte
Chalte, think of how imaginative the tune is ! My assesment is the
composition is not anything super, although a very hummable and clean
song (boy ! is that unusual). While his cogged songs are evident
replicas, even the references he cogs from stink showing a lack of
taste. Several of the non cogged songs belong in the `jopadpatti
category'; here I am refering to the movies released around 1984 such as
Himmatwala...they are usually only worth blasting in slums .. stuff like
`Nainon mein sapaa', `de de pyaar de' etc.. There are exceptions such as
`Log Kahate hain main sharaabhi hoon' which would has some elegant
parts. Most nicer tunes however are just that; nice but nothing
specially thrilling. The most glaringly weakness is the lack of
classical sense/base. I can only think of `Dheere dheere subah huee'
(Yesudas) as an exception, which I am sure is cogged from somewhere :-)
weep-weep is simply incapable of such stuff.
BL was (with the trend that he sent in the early 80's) almost
single-handedly responsible for the decay of the music to today's
jopadpatti level. Infact it's justified calling him jopadpatti-Lahiri
for that reason. I think he deserves all the flames he gets .. yeah ..
one more thing .. he is one hell of a ugly dude too :-) low blow ? No
problem .. it's only a puppy.
Ramesh Hariharan
Ramesh Hariharan
RDB ...
Ramesh Hariharan
*************
> >> Initial disclaimer that I must put forth is that I am a big fan of
> >> RDB. So this article is not based on personal emotion like the
> >> recent SJ/Naushad debates.
>
I second that.
>
> > I always find it amusing how people on rmim make the distinction
> > between Bappi and RDB when it comes to being "influenced" by the
> > West. Bappi may be more blatant, but that does not negate some of
> > the fantastic tunes he has composed over the years, which are not
> > copied. While people are willing to grant all sorts of artistic
> > discounts to RDB, similar ones are not given to Bappi. The latter
> > is put in the same category of no-talent hacks like Anand-Milind
> > (who have produced nothing of lasting value other than QSQT) or
> > Nadeem-Shravan. Bappi has gone for the quick buck, sacrificing
> > quality at several points, but so have a lot of composers over the
> > years. Perhaps it is Bappi's unashamed in-your-face blatant
> > attitude that angers people, but somewhere down the line, his
> > talents have been forgotten/ignored. Bappi is NOT the greatest, he
> > is not even in the 10 best list (of all time), but ignoring him is
> > like throwing the proverbial baby out with the bathwater.
>
Switching gears for a change, I agree that BL has composed some great
tunes. You also say that BL did copy and tried to make a fast buck,
sacrificing quality. Just because several composers have done it, does
not in any way license BL, to sacrifice it too. Anyway which among the
major composers have sacrificed real quality. If you do not want to see
BL, in the A-M, Anu Malik class, one must see if he does fit in the SDB,
Naushad, SJ class, or even the RDB, KA, LP class. BL by his own
foolishness, did not even make himself fit for the latter class, leave
alone the former. RDB on the other hand, not only definitely belonged
to
the latter class, but he proved that he could also be spoken in the same
breath as the other illustrious ones, of an earlier generation. For
every ABBA tune he may have copied, he followed it up in that year with
a
Kinara and a Ghar. BL never did so. There was a time in the late 70's
,
and early 80's when all that BL seemed to do, was to go to the nearest
music store, buy the latest rock tape, bring in his lyricist, and make
him/her fit the words around the tune. The songs were so similar in
tune, rhythm and orchestration that they sounded like a Modern day
Rahman
tune which is simply dubbed in 3 languages. Now take the case of RDB.
Even
the Mama Mia song, which came out as "Tere liye, zamana tere liye" have
big
differences. I wonder how many even knew that Mama Mia was the original
song before this post. AFter hearing the songs last night, I saw how
RDB
had cleverly hidden the original tune, under a different rhythm, clever
usage of Indian instruments etc. Heck RDB even copied SDB's tunes for
"Meethe bol bole", "Ab ke na sawan barse" and Jab bhi koi kangana bole"
from the original Bengali ones. As far as the average listener is
concerned, he used the tune of another musician, so what if they were
father and son. But the comparison starts and ends with the skeletal
tune. RDB's tunes are far better tha SDB's. Ofcourse using the right
singer has a lot to with it, and Lata and KK do add a great deal to the
tune than does SDB, but the ghunghroo in "Meethe bol bole" are absent in
the orginal, and his percussion in "Jab bhi koyi kangana bole" makes the
song sound much better. From ordinary Bengali folk songs, we have two
masterpieces. That according to me is where RDB scores over anyone.
Sure, copying is easy, but it's how you use it that also counts.
> I am not saying that every song copied by RD was an inspiration, of
> course, but there is certainly a scale difference. The packaging when
> it came to the public (the Indianization of a foreign tune) is also an
> important consideration...
Well said Neeraj. Again for examples of this listen to the original
tune
of "Tumse milke" and "Pyar ke mod pe" from Parinda( I don't know who the
original is by, but I have heard it plenty of times) or O Maria, O
Maria, part of which is a straight lift off from a post-Beatles Paul
McCartney tune. The Indianization is really done well in all three
cases.
>
> > While this ability to fuse western and Indian music is certainly a
> > cornerstone of RD's ability, it is certainly not unique to RD and
> > not in flavor either. C. Ramachandra had been doing it for years as
>
> Oh, maybe you got me wrong here --- I didn't mean to say that
> RD was the only one who could do this or was the best one (in fact in
> the current --- ie post '70s MDs I hold Rajesh Roshan a better master
> of fusion), but that he had a distinct mark of his own on the music he
> made. Something akin to RR's muted congos, to give an analogy,
> maybe... Western tunes have been around since the west was here :-)
> and every MD worth his/her mettle has dabbled in them... The
> uniqueness I said pertains to the flavor, and that certainly is beyond
> doubt (no song by RD ever puts me in a doubt as to the identity of its
> MD, but I can't say that for the others).
According to me, RDB stood out not only in the fusion of Western and
Eastern tunes, but in creating Indian tunes out of a Western one. That
Salil C did it with Mozart, is just one example, and so are the other
few
instances of Naushad, CR and OPN doing it. While they did create a few
Indian tunes, they could not always do it successfully as could RDB.
Naushad in "Tarari Tarari" and OPN in "Baar baar dekho" have not
deviated
much from the original tune in terms of style and structure. This I
say,
after stating that I became a Naushad fan only after I heard the Daastan
song.
> > My problem is with how similar his tunes started to sound. The
> > style of instrumentation was the same, the tunes were similar in
> > style. What you refer to as his unique flavor earlier is actually a
> > repetitive quality which I find limiting.
>
> :-) Now we get into opinions... I do not feel so, but I
> respect your opinion and let it be.
Again, here I agree with Neeraj. If he indeed had become repetitive, we
should have seen more of the Teesri Manzil type of tunes, in all movies
after 1966. INstead we come across RDB in Padosan, Baharon Ke Sapne,
The
Train, Pyar Ka Mausam and Aradhna in the 67-69 period. This despite the
fact that Teesri Manzil was a huge success music wise. Again in 1970 we
see Amar Prem, and then Kati Patang. Yes, he did become repetitive for
a
brief period in the mid 70's, but then came out of that with Ghar, Great
Gambler, Kinara, Khubsoorat, towards the end of the 70's. Even at the
height of his brief repetitiveness, he had a Parichay, Khushboo, Namak
Haram
and an Aandhi in between.
>
> > I felt like RD took what worked in his tunes and re-used that
> > formula several tunes to put out other tunes (many of which were
> > beautiful, because they came from a winning formula), but the truth
> > is that they were formula based.
This may sound silly, but every musician works with a formula--the 7
basic notes. When a Naushad or an SDB decided to compose a tune in Raag
Bhairavi, they could only use those notes permitted by the structure of
Bhairavi, each and every time. Would you say they were not formula
based? It was within that same Raag structure that they added and
subtracted instruments, rhythms etc to bring out the different flavours
of that Raag. SJ for example semed to have a winning formula with Raag
Shivranjani, and seemed to have used it in every other movie. So even if
they are formula based, it should not take away the beauty of the final
composition, and I don't think RDB did.
I refrain from saying that he was the best or the most versatile. All I
can say is that given the amount of success he has achieved by indulging
in all aspects of music,--classical, jazz, rock, folk, his name can be
put forward as the most versatile. The others I am sorry to say, might
have realized their limitations, or maybe the time and the movies were
different, but they did not attempt to change music the way RDB did. He
did not just fiddle around once or twice with the Western influence, but
used it wisely and well to break the taboo of Indian film music once and
for all. Without RDB to have broken that mold, we would not have seem
Rajesh Roshan, BL, or even a Rahman. They are good musicians, but
that's all. RDB, IMHO was a trendsetter.
Ciao
Ketan
A Burman fan(atic)!
PS : See, Satish, I did not say a word in favour of SDB. Maybe this will
change your opinion of me. :))
SAMIUDDIN MOHAMMED
>Lets look at Maya..well, to be frank I don't like "Tasveer teri dil mein"..
>that much,
Same here...
>but there are other songs which are my favorites...."Koi sone ke
>dilwala..",
This is a wonderful Rafi song...
>and excellently done chorus in "Ae dil kahan teri manzil.."
>listen carefully to the chorus, if you haven't..its mindblowing!
I agree reg. the mindblowing part, but is it the chorus or just Lata ? I think
it's just Lata who performs those swarobatics. The chorus does support her in
the end, but the most difficult and mindblowing portion is Lata's.
>Now let me step back and give other RMIMers a chance to take a shot at your >case.
Let me pitch in my dues for the Chacha Chaudary Chamchas Club (CCCC, one letter
more than the KKK :-) ) Here's a list of songs from my SC fav #2 (#1 is
Madhumati) :
Chhaya:
1. Aansu samajhke kyun mujhe aankh se tumne gira diya... (wonderful TalaTune).
2. Aankhon me masti sharaab ki... (another great Talat song)
3. Itna na mujhse tu pyaar baRa.. (the famous "plagiarized" tune :-) )
4. Dil se dil ki chori chori... (an EXCELLENT Mukesh/Lata duet)
5. Chham chham naachat aai bahaar.. (a wonderful Lata song)
6. Ya kehde ke tu Bhagwan nahin... (nothing exceptional, but a good Rafi song)
Sami Mohammed (A Naushad fan)... and a Chacha Chaudary pankha.
>Arun
********************************************************************************
Lines for the day:
Kya jaanie, kahan se, aati hai kaanon me sada
GHam diwaane, hai tera sab se juda
Is mehfil se uTHa dil, na behlega ye matwaala
Majrooh in "Koi sone ke dilwaala, koi chaandi ke dilwaala...."
********************************************************************************
Ramesh Hariharan
Ramesh
**************************************************************
> Ketan, nice article on RDB. I am actually real upset that the BeeperLady
> is even mentioned in the same paragraph as RDB. For each of his
> western/cogged tune, RD had a large number of fascinating songs. To me
> Amar Prem is an all-time classic, while Aandhi, Masoom and other work
> with Gulzar/KK certainly belong in the top bracket (just the fact that
> SJ, Naushad and MM composed there great tunes earlier doesn't reserve
> the top echelons exclusively for them!).
I am not sure what the discussion is about ?
Are we saying that RD is the only one who should occupy the top echelons ?
I disagree.
Are we saying that RD is better than SJ, Naushad, MM, SD, etc etc ?
I disagree again.
Are we saying that RD composed great music ?
I agree wholeheartedly.
> How many decent movies does Beep-beep have ? I am not no expert, all I
> could come up with is:
>
> Namak Halaal
> Chalte Chalte
> Sharaabhi
>
> That's it ??? While much credit is given for the title song from Chalte
> Chalte, think of how imaginative the tune is ! My assesment is the
> composition is not anything super, although a very hummable and clean
> song (boy ! is that unusual).
Well Ramesh, as a person who is not a hard core Bappi fan myself, let me list
just a few more. I am not sure it will change any opinions on your side, but
I think it is worth a valiant try on my part :-)
4] Sheeshe Ka Ghar
5] TooTe Khilone ***
6] Ehsaas ***
7] Manokaamna ***
8] Aitbaar ***
9] Haisiyat
10] JhooThi
11] Zakhmee ***
12] Agreement ***
13] Saaheb
14] Mera Dharam
15] Kaali Ganga
16] Lahu Ke Do Rang
17] Sailaab ***
18] Kisi Se Na Kehna ***
Now in each of the above cases, I have found atleast 1 very very nice song,
and in some cases more than that. Who is claiming that Bappi is great ?
I certainly am not. I am just saying that he composed quite a lot of nice
music. I am not sure why that is a problem ?
Even in a junky film like "Tohfa", he was able to throw in a nice duet by Asha
and SPB "O milan, maujoN se maujoN ka". I have not included some other films
like "Shaukeen" and "Sachhe Ka Bol Baala" and "Awwal Number" which had atleast
1 nice song each. But I do not know enough about the rest of the music in
these films to be able to comment.
The films marked with *** have very very good soundtracks. There may be other
films, but these are what I could pull out off the top of my head.
The RD militia that seem to pervade rmim was the only reason I protested
initially. I was trying to point out the differences in standards that are
being applied.
But, the response I am getting is basically that if RD copied, somehow it was
not quite copying, it was okay. If Bappi did it, well that is just
unacceptable.
If RD copied, he also had some great tunes, hence it is okay.
If Bappi had nice tunes, well, they just were not good enough, so again it is
not okay.
It is hard to debate logic like yours which is based on a personalized dislike.
So I guess I won't.
P
Pradeep Dubey
|> NNTP-Posting-Host: ts24-9.wla.ts.ucla.edu
|> Mime-Version: 1.0
|> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
|> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|> X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit)
|>
|> cvin...@telogy.com (Chetan Vinchhi) wrote:
|>
|> >>
|> >>One question though, I've been meaning to ask this for a while. Salil
|> >>Chowdhary has put out some great songs. Only, besides Madhumati, I've yet
|> >>to find a movie with all good songs. Any views?
|> >>
|> >
|> > Oh, pick up any Salil C movie !
|> >
|>
|> >>
|> > :)
|> > Chetan.
|>
|> Oh, come now. My point is that some of his songs are of such high calibre.
|> Others tend to be just "fillers" for the album. First look at Madhumati.
|> All of the songs were great. From "Suhana Safar" to "Aaja Re Pardesi",
|> "Ghadi Ghadi Mora Dil", "Chad Gaye O Paapi Bichhua", et al. It was a
|> treasure of an album. On the other hand, besides the following from these
|> movies that I thought of off the top of my head, the rest of the songs
|> were pretty ordinary:
|>
|> "O Sajna" - Parakh
|> "Aha Rhim Jhim Ke Yeh" - Usne Kaha Tha
|> Title Song - Prem Patra
|> "Ja Re Ud Ja Re Panchhi" - Maya
|> "Tasveer Teri Dil Mein" - Maya
|> "Kahin Door Jab Din" - Anand
This is verrrrrrrry interesting. Sticking to the set of movies
you have chosen to list, you really think the unlisted songs
are ordinary!! If you really think so, we have a biiiiiiiiiiiig
difference in our tastes. Here are some of those ordinary songs for
othere RMIMers to judge and if can play some instrument, I strongly
suggest you try to play these to see why I assert they are far
from 'ordinary' songs. In my books, that all get more than 4 stars
on a scale of 5 starts being 'best':
mila hai kisika jhumka - Parakh
ye bansi kyoon gaaye - Parakh
mere man ke diye - Parakh
machalti aarzoo - UKT
chalte hi jaana - UKT
jaanewaale sipaahi se poochho - UKT
saawan ki raaton mein - PP
ye mere andhere ujaale - PP
and any of the other songs from Maya and Anand
Pradeep
P.S. While most of his contemporaries were outplaying each other
by claiming to have performed a bigger 'addition', Salil
was playing with N-dimensional PDEs :-) :-)
Arun Verma
SAMIUDDIN MOHAMMED <sm...@Lehigh.EDU> wrote:
>In article <4gg108$p...@noatun.cs.cornell.edu>, ve...@cs.cornell.edu (Arun Verma) writes:
>
>>Lets look at Maya..well, to be frank I don't like "Tasveer teri dil mein"..
>>that much,
>
>Same here...
>
>>but there are other songs which are my favorites...."Koi sone ke
>>dilwala..",
>
>This is a wonderful Rafi song...
>
>>and excellently done chorus in "Ae dil kahan teri manzil.."
>>listen carefully to the chorus, if you haven't..its mindblowing!
>
>I agree reg. the mindblowing part, but is it the chorus or just Lata ? I think
>it's just Lata who performs those swarobatics. The chorus does support her in
>the end, but the most difficult and mindblowing portion is Lata's.
>
Sami,
The Dwijen Mukerjee's version has good part done in Chorus. Thats
the version I was talking about.
Arun
Pradeep Dubey
|> In article <4gg108$p...@noatun.cs.cornell.edu>, ve...@cs.cornell.edu (Arun Verma) writes:
|>
|> >Lets look at Maya..well, to be frank I don't like "Tasveer teri dil mein"..
|> >that much,
|>
|> Same here...
|>
|> >but there are other songs which are my favorites...."Koi sone ke
|> >dilwala..",
|>
|> This is a wonderful Rafi song...
|>
|> >and excellently done chorus in "Ae dil kahan teri manzil.."
|> >listen carefully to the chorus, if you haven't..its mindblowing!
|>
|> I agree reg. the mindblowing part, but is it the chorus or just Lata ? I think
|> it's just Lata who performs those swarobatics. The chorus does support her in
|> the end, but the most difficult and mindblowing portion is Lata's.
|>
|>
|> Let me pitch in my dues for the Chacha Chaudary Chamchas Club (CCCC, one letter
|> more than the KKK :-) ) Here's a list of songs from my SC fav #2 (#1 is
|> Madhumati) :
Thank you so much Sami ... love that acronym. As the self-declared president
of CCCC, I am proud to be the 'Captain Chamcha'.
Pradeep
Political Affiliations: KKK, CCCC, ...
Pradeep Dubey
|>
|> In article <4ga38i$l...@watnews1.watson.ibm.com>, <pra...@watson.ibm.com> writes:
|> >
|> > Preetham: great analysis on RDB. After these strings of criticisms
|> > of stalwarts like: RDB, Naushad, SJ, I request you and others
|> > (especially: Vish, Rajan, Sami, Ashok, Snehal) to post a similar criticism
|> > of Salil C. I have certainly, over a long period of time,
|> > elevated him by now to almost a god-like status and believe me,
|> > I am quite ready to listen to reasons to bring him down
|> > from this pedestal.
|> >
|> > :-) life is getting too complicated and it would certainly help
|> > if I had fewer gods to worship ... :-) I need to cut down my 'pooja' time ...
|> >
|> > Thanks in advance.
|> > Pradeep
|> >
|>
|> That's interesting, Pradeep. I thought people *went* to god because they found
|> life to be too complicated! I am a thorough-going agnostic alright in all
|> respects, but generally you will have to accomplish your own deicide. Especially
|> in this case, I'll have to pass. What can I say about an artist who has improved
|> on Mozart!
|>
Ashok: for someone like you who can deliberate normally at great
lengths to have said "I'll have to pass" speaks volumes :-) And
you should copyright that Mozart comment ... I am tempted to plagiarise ...
Pradeep
Ikram Ahmed Khan
: RDB ...
: There was a time in the late 70's ,
: and early 80's when all that BL seemed to do, was to go to the nearest
: music store, buy the latest rock tape, bring in his lyricist, and make
: him/her fit the words around the tune. The songs were so similar in
: tune, rhythm and orchestration that they sounded like a Modern day
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: Rahman
: tune which is simply dubbed in 3 languages. Now take the case of RDB.
Ketan here means similar to the original?? Or that all songs sounded the
same wherever they were taken from ... seeing his example I am tending
towards the first point. :)
: Even
: the Mama Mia song, which came out as "Tere liye, zamana tere liye" have
: big
: differences. I wonder how many even knew that Mama Mia was the original
: song before this post. AFter hearing the songs last night, I saw how
: RDB
: had cleverly hidden the original tune, under a different rhythm, clever
: usage of Indian instruments etc. Heck RDB even copied SDB's tunes for
: "Meethe bol bole", "Ab ke na sawan barse" and Jab bhi koi kangana bole"
: from the original Bengali ones. As far as the average listener is
: concerned, he used the tune of another musician, so what if they were
: father and son. But the comparison starts and ends with the skeletal
: tune. RDB's tunes are far better tha SDB's. Ofcourse using the right
: singer has a lot to with it, and Lata and KK do add a great deal to the
: tune than does SDB, but the ghunghroo in "Meethe bol bole" are absent in
: the orginal, and his percussion in "Jab bhi koyi kangana bole" makes the
: song sound much better. From ordinary Bengali folk songs, we have two
: masterpieces. That according to me is where RDB scores over anyone.
: Sure, copying is easy, but it's how you use it that also counts.
Since we are in the mode of making RD pay, isn't what he has done what
amounts to remixing the old songs? And AFAIK, we are hard on the Bally
Sagoo's of this world for doing that. So, in the end, is it that if RD
does a good job of remixing then it is ok? And if some idiot turns Chura
liya hai tumne to a rap interlude wala song, toh we send out for Carlos,
the Jackal??
And more on the remix scene,
Asha Bhonsle is going to sing for the remix of RD's songs. The cassette
is going to be called "Rahul & I". The trailer can be found in the Hindi
cassette release of Love Birds (a cassette that you shouldn't buy even
otherwise..... Chitra doesn't do justice to her own original song!! And
SPB quavers too much thru Na ho kal jo... a noted GHazal singer like
Hariharan fails to pronounce Urdu words correctly etc etc....). Asha
doesn't sound too good... Her voice seems to be going the Lata way :(
Or was it her way of getting back for the Paanch rupees wala joke that
Pancham played on her?
Later,
Ikram.
: > I am not saying that every song copied by RD was an inspiration, of
Chetan Vinchhi
>
>Oh, come now. My point is that some of his songs are of such high calibre.
>Others tend to be just "fillers" for the album. First look at Madhumati.
>All of the songs were great. From "Suhana Safar" to "Aaja Re Pardesi",
>"Ghadi Ghadi Mora Dil", "Chad Gaye O Paapi Bichhua", et al. It was a
>treasure of an album. On the other hand, besides the following from these
>movies that I thought of off the top of my head, the rest of the songs
>were pretty ordinary:
>
Hi Vishal,
No, I don't agree with you. As a matter of fact, I consider him the MD
with one of the hightest 'hit ratios'. It is indeed true that Madhumati
had great songs. But I would have to seriously doubt the concurrence
of your musical taste with mine (beyond the fact that I too like SC)
if I were to glance at your list.
>"O Sajna" - Parakh
Or maybe I would have to urge you to dig deeper than the just top of your
head. I mean some thing is seriously wrong if you discount "milaa hai
kisiikaa jhumkaa" _and_ "yeh bansii kyoo.n gaaye" _and_ "mere man ke
diye" as mere fillers.
>"Kahin Door Jab Din" - Anand
And how can you discard a song of the calibre of "naa jiyaa laage naa"
which is one of Salil C's own favourite compositions for Lata ?
>Title Song - Prem Patra
Title song ? hmmm. I don't remember Prem Patra having one ! Which song
are you referring to ?
>
>Just my opinion. I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes here. I just
>think he was a great MD (and one of my favorites) but not consistantly
>great.
In which case you could have worded your posts differently. For instance,
you could have said _you_ don't like all songs from any of SalilC's other
movies. Instead of just branding your non-favourite songs as "mere fillers".
As usual, apply standard disclaimers.
Best regards,
Chetan.
Ikram Ahmed Khan
: Ramesh Hariharan (hari...@crd.ge.com) wrote:
: : tune. RDB's tunes are far better tha SDB's. Ofcourse using the right
: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: Are you crazy. RDB in his entire life time could not give songs like SDB in
: GUIDE , ABHIMAAN , MERI SURAT TERI ANHKE and scores of other great hits.
Uh... since we all know that quite a bit of early RDB work is found under
the name of SDB (Him being the advisor whose name gets printed on the thesis
as one nettor said), I wouldn't be too careful in quoting films like that.
For all you know, Meet na mila re man ka might have been an RDB original.
Another question for nettors, how does one know which work has been done by
Shanker and which by Jaikishen? I remember Prof Krishnan telling us in one
post that xxxx was by Shanker and yyyy was by Jaikishen. I wondered how we
know.... Is there a biography of them out there?
: : that's all. RDB, IMHO was a trendsetter.
: Oh yeah a trendsetter in stealing tunes shamelessly. Just listen to the
Ah, come come... he is a trendsetter for bringing Western music to the
forefront of the Indian movie-goers attention. He brought a whole new
world to them just by making Shammi sing Aaja Aaja main hooN pyaar tera.
He totally revolutionised the way music was being composed at that time.
And he was a major factor in the success of a phenomenon called Rajesh
Khanna too! The public could not have swooned over Rajesh's at-that-time
cute and-now-silly mannerisms if he had been doing it for the normal
musicians. Rajesh was a rage of his time, and as much as him , RDB too
was a rage. THAT is what makes a trendsetter. NOT whether a guy steals or
does not steal! Bappi or even AnuM will never have that kinda mass
hysteria generated by them. Would NS come close? Not to RDB but to
Naushad (Note for Sami-bhai: I managed to get Naushad's name on another
line than NS :) ) in focusing the people's attention on music and again
bringing money to the MDs harmonium (and that is what NS have ....the
harmonium and two violins :) ) and there the comparison stops. The
quality of music never can be compared to Naushad's. NS do not come close
to RDB, because at his time, the composers were still there. The public
was still focused on them. Music was not totally balderdash as at the
time an year or two prior to NS time.
Later,
Ikram.
: S. Ravi Krishna
rajesh sharma
let me thank every one with helping me with" kabhi ajnabi the" and
with baton baton mein.these songs that i am listing below might exit or
they could my brains doing. any help in identifing them would be
greatly appreciated.
1) the song goes something like this . sari ki sari ye duniyan
meri jeb mein.
2) this movie has darmendra in it, i think. "chal raju apni
masti mein choor,koi jiye ya mare"
3) khana se anna huaa ,chera to hai janaa phachana hyuaa,dekh
ta hoon koi ladi haseen etc, etc
Ramesh Hariharan
>: "Meethe bol bole", "Ab ke na sawan barse" and Jab bhi koi kangana bole"
>: from the original Bengali ones. As far as the average listener is
>: concerned, he used the tune of another musician, so what if they were
>: father and son. But the comparison starts and ends with the skeletal
>: tune. RDB's tunes are far better tha SDB's. Ofcourse using the right
>
>Are you crazy. RDB in his entire life time could not give songs like SDB in
>GUIDE , ABHIMAAN , MERI SURAT TERI ANHKE and scores of other great hits.
>more than RDB tunes.
>
>S. Ravi Krishna
Whether I am crazy or not is a very subjective viewpoint :-)
.but quoting someone else's article on my name atleast shows that you write more than you read. I suggest you go through articles m=
ore carefully before pounding like hell on the keys !
Ramesh
ps. Still waiting for Ketan's response.. from what I hear you are in trouble :-)
Ramesh Hariharan
>I am not sure what the discussion is about ?
>Are we saying that RD is the only one who should occupy the top echelons ?
> I disagree.
>Are we saying that RD is better than SJ, Naushad, MM, SD, etc etc ?
> I disagree again.
>Are we saying that RD composed great music ?
> I agree wholeheartedly.
Say .. you are plum right vermin (said in the voice of Sam the pirate) ! :-) :-) Maan gaye yaar .. you do see logic and order in all=
this noise.. Pl. see below for my follow up comments (Cartoon mode off)
>> Namak Halaal
>> Chalte Chalte
>> Sharaabhi
>> That's it ??? While much credit is given for the title song from Chalte
>> Chalte, think of how imaginative the tune is ! My assesment is the
>> composition is not anything super, although a very hummable and clean
>> song (boy ! is that unusual).
>Now in each of the above cases, I have found atleast 1 very very nice song,
>and in some cases more than that. Who is claiming that Bappi is great ?
>The films marked with *** have very very good soundtracks.
Thanks for so many BL movies with good soundtracks.. obviously my data is limited relative to you... I sincerely wonder though ... h=
ave you actually collected the songs of all these movies ? You must have a huge collection even from the 80's ! See Preetham, this i=
s my primary crib with the man ..at random if I pick up a movie... the chances are there will be 3 ok songs, 2 horrible ones and one=
good score. The 2 of them in general will more than compensate for the good from the others. You can apply the same to LP also .. t=
hey have comeup with some outstanding music at times..Utsav and Milan come to mind rightaway... but at random if I pick up a movie I=
am more likely to be frustrated with average/below avg music.
Nerdily speaking their signal to noise ratio stinks.
>Even in a junky film like "Tohfa", he was able to throw in a nice duet by Asha
>and SPB "O milan, maujoN se maujoN ka". I have not included some other films
Exactly .. I have to wade through 4 other junk songs to hear this nice song.
Now if you have someone like HMV doing all the purification for you, life is indeed nicer ... for example.. I really do like the son=
gs
Pyaar bina chain kahan re (even the ghodi Amrita Singh looks good
in this song !)
Manzilen apnee jagah hai
Dil ke tukde tukde karke
Pag ghungaroo bandh
Chalte Chalte ...
I do maintain that average quality is a more imp. criteria for judging than a selected few.
>It is hard to debate logic like yours which is based on a personalized dislike.
>So I guess I won't.
Aise mat bolo yaar .. I am listening ...and you make it sound as though
I had a major fight with him in a BEST bus or something ! I must say that you conveniently ignored the point I brought up that his t=
unes have huge amounts of western infleunce and are by and large deprived of an Indian classical flavor (BIIIIG diff between RD and =
BL).
Thanks for making me more aware of some of his better scores..Peace and enjoy good music.
> P
Ramesh Hariharan
Neeraj Deshmukh - The Falcon
sm...@ix.netcom.com(rajesh sharma ) writes:
> 1) the song goes something like this . sari ki sari ye
> duniyan meri jeb mein.
This is the title song of 'Duniya meri jeb mein'. AFAIR it
goess like
"Thokar mein hai saara zamaana,
--- something something ------
mushqil hai us ka bach jaana
kyon ke, saari ke saari yeh duniya,
meri jeb mein..."
Music is probably by R D Burman. The film featured Rishi Kapoor and
Neetu Singh.
> 2) this movie has darmendra in it, i think. "chal raju apni
> masti mein choor,koi jiye ya mare"
Hmm... one of my kid-time favorites. Horses, guns, pretty
princesses... :-) A Chitrahaar clue for this would be --- "Dharmendra
is on a ride on his horse to whom he is singing about his happy go
lucky nature. They come across a farm set on fire and princess Hema
making a painting of it". The film is 'Aazaad'. The song goes...
Raju, chal Raju
apni masti mein tu, (could be 'choor' as you said too)
koi jiye, ya mare,
kya hum ko, baabu...
> 3) khana se anna huaa ,chera to hai janaa phachana
> hyuaa,dekh ta hoon koi ladi haseen etc, etc
'dekhta hoon koi laDki haseen' is from 'Sanam teri kasam' *ing
Kamal Haasan and Reena Roy (and this song is currently being much
discussed on the RDB thread).
jehanzeb
>
> 1) the song goes something like this . sari ki sari ye duniyan
> meri jeb mein.
when someone finds a reply to this one... plz mail me as well...
now i too have lost my sleep over this one...
is it by any chance the title song of "duniya meri jeb mein"
for that matter did a movie by that name ever exist?
seems i m really drifting off into an other world! :(
--
later
kuntal
diwaanaa leke aayaa hai, dil kaa taraanaa
dekho kaheen yaaron, thukaraa na denaa...
meraa nazaraanaa...
Rajesh Nandwani
writes:
>sm...@ix.netcom.com(rajesh sharma ) wrote:
>
>>
>> 1) the song goes something like this . sari ki sari ye duniyan
>> meri jeb mein.
>
> when someone finds a reply to this one... plz mail me as well...
> now i too have lost my sleep over this one...
> is it by any chance the title song of "duniya meri jeb mein"
> for that matter did a movie by that name ever exist?
> seems i m really drifting off into an other world! :(
>
Kuntal:
You are correct. It is the title song of 'Duniya Meri Jeb Mein'. Sleep
tight :-).
Rajesh
PS: I think the one of the actors in the movie was Rishi Kapoor.
--
When you are good to others, you are best to yourself.
- Benjamin Franklin
Pradeep Dubey
|> The stat-guru's response to my post ....
|>
|>
|> Ramesh
|>
|> **************************************************************
|>
|> > Ketan, nice article on RDB. I am actually real upset that the BeeperLady
|> > is even mentioned in the same paragraph as RDB. For each of his
|> > western/cogged tune, RD had a large number of fascinating songs. To me
|> > Amar Prem is an all-time classic, while Aandhi, Masoom and other work
|> > with Gulzar/KK certainly belong in the top bracket (just the fact th|>
It's not too often that one gets a chance to find a stat-flaw in stat-guru's
post. There is a distinct chance this time that I may have done just that
or may be not ...
|> Now in each of the above cases, I have found atleast 1 very very nice song,
|> and in some cases more than that. Who is claiming that Bappi is great ?
|> I certainly am not. I am just saying that he composed quite a lot of nice
|> music. I am not sure why that is a problem ?
|> Even in a junky film like "Tohfa", he was able to throw in a nice duet by Asha
|> and SPB "O milan, maujoN se maujoN ka". I have not included some other films
|> like "Shaukeen" and "Sachhe Ka Bol Baala" and "Awwal Number" which had atleast
Isn't "Shaukeen" by RDB and not BL?
Pradeep
|> 1 nice song each. But I do not know enough about the rest of the music in
|> these films to be able to comment.
|> The films marked with *** have very very good soundtracks. There may be other
|> films, but these are what I could pull out off the top of my head.
|>
|>
|> The RD militia that seem to pervade rmim was the only reason I protested
|> initially. I was trying to point out the differences in standards that are
|> being applied.
|> But, the response I am getting is basically that if RD copied, somehow it was
|> not quite copying, it was okay. If Bappi did it, well that is just
|> unacceptable.
|> If RD copied, he also had some great tunes, hence it is okay.
|> If Bappi had nice tunes, well, they just were not good enough, so again it is
|> not okay.
|>
|> It is hard to debate logic like yours which is based on a personalized dislike.
|> So I guess I won't.
|>
|>
|>
|> P
|>
|>
|>
Patschant Masinal
>
> Are you crazy. RDB in his entire life time could not give songs like SDB in
> GUIDE , ABHIMAAN , MERI SURAT TERI ANHKE and scores of other great hits.
> shamelessly.
> Have you noticed that when Anu Malik , Bappi Lahiri are questioned on their
> copying they always retort saying that RDB also did the same. Why don't they
> mention SDB or Naushad or Madan Mohan.
On the same lines, the above mentioned trio should be blamed as much in the art of copying.
They copied directly from Uttar Pradeshiya, Bengali and Assameses folk songs.
RD acknowledged that he picked tunes from other areas. Yes! It was not mentioned
on his cassettes or records, which even the trio did not. Do you see any acknowledgements
to UttarPradesh folk on the records of Mavshad's movies or towards Rajastani Folk
in Madan Mohan's movies.
On 'Log Sangeet ' 3:00 pm, VBPS (Vividh Bharti Prasaran Seva), they would play songs, whose tunes
matched in every way with many of the trio's songs.
RDB faded in the late 80's because he did not have support from any good male singer, since
in most of his songs, he relied heavily on KK_ji and MR_ji (MR died in 1980 and KK cut down on
singing after he had his first heart problem in 1983), while SD had the chance of using
Kishoreji in his last movie, Mili and RafiJee, although he had lost the earlier quality in his voice
but was still a a super-great singer.
AS an example, 1942-Love Story has brilliant music, but, with a singer like Sanu (He is good, but
nowehre near the likes of KK and MR), the songs would never reach the heights of
Mili, Abhimaan, Amar Prem, Yaadoun Ki Baaraat. Teesree manzil etc...
Kya Boltaa Hai !!!
-Prashant
>
> S. Ravi Krishna
Ikram Ahmed Khan
: This is the title song of 'Duniya meri jeb mein'. AFAIR it
: goess like
: "Thokar mein hai saara zamaana,
: --- something something ------
jo ban jaa'e mera nishaana
: mushqil hai us ka bach jaana
: kyon ke, saari ke saari yeh duniya,
: meri jeb mein..."
: Music is probably by R D Burman. The film featured Rishi Kapoor and
: Neetu Singh.
Music definitely RDB. Film also starred ShashiK and more importantly Helen.
:) Now if I can only remember the song on her!! And I should mention that DD
always cut that one. Phooey on them.
Later,
Ikram.
Arun Verma
I think the song picturised on helen is "Ye bhi dil mangta, vo bhi dil mangta, ye dil
mein doon kis kis ko.."(or something similar). Are you sure that RDB is the MD? I some
how recall that Rajesh Roshan did the music..can somebody confirm?
-Arun
Krunal Parikh
: let me thank every one with helping me with" kabhi ajnabi the" and
: with baton baton mein.these songs that i am listing below might exit or
: they could my brains doing. any help in identifing them would be
: greatly appreciated.
: 1) the song goes something like this . sari ki sari ye duniyan
: meri jeb mein.
:
This song is from movie Duniyan Meri Jeb Main. *ring Rishi Kapoor.
: 2) this movie has darmendra in it, i think. "chal raju apni
: masti mein choor,koi jiye ya mare"
:
Movie: Azaad
: 3) khana se anna huaa ,chera to hai janaa phachana hyuaa,dekh
: ta hoon koi ladi haseen etc, etc
: The song dehta hoon koi ladki haseen is from movie Wardhat
( I think at least) *ring Mithun
Hope This helps ... ( I am not sure oir P_Stats)
--- Krunal
:
Neeraj Deshmukh - The Falcon
(Krunal Parikh) writes:
> : 3) khana se anna huaa ,chera to hai janaa phachana hyuaa,dekh : ta
> hoon koi ladi haseen etc, etc
> The song dehta hoon koi ladki haseen is from movie Wardhat (
> I think at least) *ring Mithun
Krunal,
Are you sure you haven't confused the song with
"dekha hai maine tumhe.n phir se palaT ke
tum me.n hai baat koi auro.n se haT ke"
from Wardaat (*ing Mithun & Kajal Kiran)? As I wrote in my previous
post 'dekhta hoon koi laDki haseen' is from 'Sanam teri kasam' *ing
Kamal Haasan & Reena Roy...
However, I can't make anything out of 'khana se anna huaa,
chera to hai janaa phachana hyuaa' parts... :-(
Chetan Vinchhi
Hi Pradeep (and all others who have been following this thread),
Salil Chaudhury. The name evokes instant musical echoes from within,
doesn't it ? But maybe calling him "god" is not quite right. Especially
since agnostics like Ashok will start having doubts about his music :)
On a more serious vein, there may be limitations even to the godlike
personality of SC. Most of what I say below comprises of my feelings
and maybe even biases. But here it is anyway !
I think his use of singers was limited. Indeed, an extreme
statement like "SC's music began with Lata and ended with Lata"
would not be too far off the mark. For me, few of his male
compositions or duets and even fewer of his compositions
for other female singers soar to the heights achieved by his
Lata solos.
Among the male singers, he has made excellent use
of Mukesh. But his Rafi and Kishore outputs are very limited
in number. And perhaps not as high-quality ?
Female singers other than Lata (like Geeta, Asha, Shamshad)
who were mainstream singers in the period during which SC
composed find meagre representation in his songs.
Just imagine, for instance, if Lata had come in only for
the lori in 'do bighaa zameen' and the other songs had been
given to Asha.
Another point against SC shall begin with a much-misused term :
Versatility. I cannot recall a single ghazal composed by SC.
Or a qawali-like song. How about mujras (other than the Madhumati
Mubarak Begum solo) ? I am sure many of his song situations must
have demanded one of the above categories. In Maya, a sad ghazal
quivered on the lips of Mala Sinha but instead 'jaa re, jaa re
uD jaa re panchhi' emerged. It is almost as if he shied away
from composing this kind of songs.
The last point may the most subjective of all. So listen carefully
while you hone your machetes.
Appreciating SC's music is an intellectual excercise. While Roshan
or CR or Naushad are capable of hitting the spot directly, the
emotional appeal of SC is a derived one. Almost a secondary one.
The first thing that strikes you about the song is the crispness
of the prelude/interludes or the well-defined structure of the tune
itself. The emotional appeal will slowly seep in (to stay, mind you)
over several listenings partly via other aspects of the song like
rhythm or instruments or words.
Just some thougts. Comments welcome.
Best regards,
Chetan.
Faez Nasrudin Kaiser
: Another question for nettors, how does one know which work has been done by
: Shanker and which by Jaikishen? I remember Prof Krishnan telling us in one
: post that xxxx was by Shanker and yyyy was by Jaikishen. I wondered how we
: know.... Is there a biography of them out there?
My father is able to tell which of Shankar or Jaikishen composed a
particular song simply from the tune. If I am not mistaken, he remarked
that Shankar had a limited repertoire of songs compared to Jaikishen, and
the better SJ songs had more input from Jaikishen. He is able to do this
for almost any MD in the period 1940-80. What I think this means is that
even in a MD duo, each MD retains his characteristic touch.
One of SJ was a tabla player, and I think the preponderance of a tabla in
a particular SJ song is also a clue as to who composed the tune.
Regards,
Faez
--
Faez Kaiser nasr...@glue.umd.edu
Electrical Engineering http://www.glue.umd.edu/~nasrudin
University of Maryland at College Park
Ramesh Hariharan
More masala on the RDB war (!).. Ooops .. I just realized I landed up
posting Ketan's messages in the wrong order .. well atleast I will get
the right name this time.. yeah .. here's more from Dhokalia sahab from
Orlando.
Ramesh Hariharan
**********************************************************************
Please post this too, with the CORRECT NAME.
On 23 Feb 1996, Ravi Krishna wrote:
> Ramesh Hariharan (hari...@crd.ge.com) wrote:
> : had cleverly hidden the original tune, under a different rhythm, clever
> : usage of Indian instruments etc. Heck RDB even copied SDB's tunes for
> : "Meethe bol bole", "Ab ke na sawan barse" and Jab bhi koi kangana bole"
> : from the original Bengali ones. As far as the average listener is
> : concerned, he used the tune of another musician, so what if they were
> : father and son. But the comparison starts and ends with the skeletal
> : tune. RDB's tunes are far better tha SDB's. Ofcourse using the right
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
I think u are missing the point. I was speaking specifically of the
above listed three songs and not in general. If you have heard the
original SDB Bengali versions, I am sure anyone would agree that RDB
improved upon the original.
> Are you crazy. RDB in his entire life time could not give songs like SDB in
> GUIDE , ABHIMAAN , MERI SURAT TERI ANHKE and scores of other great hits.
> Moreover SDB did not rely on western songs to copy and pass it off as his own
> shamelessly. The fact that SDB till his death was a top rank composer (
> listen to his milli , abhimaan which came in early 70's) proves his
> longitivity. RDB faded out in 80's. I still enjoy listening to SDB tunes
> more than RDB tunes.
>
That SDB lasted till his death and RDB did not, I agree. As for SDB not
passing
off western songs as his own, hah! Maybe it would interest you to know
that half of Aradhna was done by RDB. GUIDE's "Gaata rahe mera dil" was
an RDB creation. So was "Meet na mila re man ka" from ABHIMAAN. Even
songs which have SDB stamped on them were done by RDB. Example : "Tu
kahan yeh bata is nashili raat main" and "Jaise radha ne mala japi shaam ki"
Final example: "Hum the woh thi aur sama rangin samajh gay na", which is a
famous Louis Armstrong sax piece, but so brilliantly improvised that the
original is unrecognizable.
> : singer has a lot to with it, and Lata and KK do add a great deal to the
> : tune than does SDB, but the ghunghroo in "Meethe bol bole" are absent in
> : the orginal, and his percussion in "Jab bhi koyi kangana bole" makes the
> : song sound much better. From ordinary Bengali folk songs, we have two
> : masterpieces. That according to me is where RDB scores over anyone.
> : Sure, copying is easy, but it's how you use it that also counts.
>
> Here I agree with you. RDB use to recycle Bengali folk songs much better
> than SDB but doesn't make him a better composer.
>
> : Again for examples of this listen to the original tune
> : of "Tumse milke" and "Pyar ke mod pe" from Parinda( I don't know who the
> : original is by, but I have heard it plenty of times) or O Maria, O
> : Maria, part of which is a straight lift off from a post-Beatles Paul
> : McCartney tune. The Indianization is really done well in all three
> : cases.
>
>
> : that's all. RDB, IMHO was a trendsetter.
>
> Oh yeah a trendsetter in stealing tunes shamelessly. Just listen to the
> Spanish original song of "Chura liya hai tume" from Yadoon Ki BARAT. RDB
> didn't change one note in the song. What a great composer OOPS thief.
> For me stealing someone's else work and passing it off as your own is the
> worst offense for any artist. The least RDB could have done is to at least
> acknowledge in the cassette that so and so song is inspired ( or lifted) from
> so and so song.
Remind me to check the credits of Chaaya again to see if W.A.Mozart is
anywhere mentioned as Asst. MD. Hmm, ARR could have mentioned a word of
thanks when he was busy lifting "Pyar hua ikraar huva" for "Muqaabla
Muqaabla". Was it Anu Malik or Viju Shah who forgot to thank Ustad Nusrat
FA Khan, for "Tu cheez badi hai mast mast"? Hmm, Madan Mohan forgot to
thank Sajjad until he was confronted. OPN never thanked an Italian singer
for a tune in Bhagambhaag for "He babu, yeh hai zamana tera", nor do I
think has Naushad thanked some unknown for the original waltz tune to
"Tarari Tarari". Good Lord! Two of my favourites have commited that sin
too. KK has yet to mail the thank you note to a tequila singer for
"Babaloo babaloo baba" from Jhumroo, and although the Beatles did send
John up the to the great studio in the sky, I don't think he has yet even
established communication with SDB for letting them use his tune for "The
Inner light".
Again according to VishK, CR, Ravi, and SJ have also done it.I do believe
their word of thanks got lost in network traffic. Hmm, that does not
leave very many MD's to be proud off, right?
> Have you noticed that when Anu Malik , Bappi Lahiri are questioned on their
> copying they always retort saying that RDB also did the same. Why don't they
> mention SDB or Naushad or Madan Mohan.
>
Ahh, but not being able to criticize respected, venerated musicians of
yesteryear, is a whole other problem. I almost got the job, but then I
was labelled crazy. Well, too bad. I can see there is no shortage of
applicants.
> S. Ravi Krishna
>
Ravi Krishna
: the name of SDB (Him being the advisor whose name gets printed on the thesis
: as one nettor said), I wouldn't be too careful in quoting films like that.
No doubt some of the SDB work were actually done by RDB but they were all
light western based song as Meet na mila re. Of the same Abhimaan RDB
can't compose a song like Aab to hai tum se , Tere mera milan ki , Teri
nidaya re .
RDB forte was so called western songs which he shamlessly copied in many case
and passed off as his original. RDB also gave some good indian songs but he
would not have been so a trendsetter (sick) if didn't compose "Dum maro dum"
kind of song. I believe public have better taste than considering
RDB indian song as epitome of Indian classical music. I have got a
collection of best of hindi film classical music and RDB's song just doesn't
come in that category. If your musical taste is good ( which I doubt from
your Rehman liking) then please listen to songs of Madan Mohan , Naushad ,
SDB and then try to analyse whether RDB comes in the same class.
: Another question for nettors, how does one know which work has been done by
: Shanker and which by Jaikishen? I remember Prof Krishnan telling us in one
: post that xxxx was by Shanker and yyyy was by Jaikishen. I wondered how we
: know.... Is there a biography of them out there?
That's a nice question. I read in Raju Bharatan's book that all title songs
as a rule was composed by Shankar.
: Ah, come come... he is a trendsetter for bringing Western music to the
: forefront of the Indian movie-goers attention. He brought a whole new
: world to them just by making Shammi sing Aaja Aaja main hooN pyaar tera.
: He totally revolutionised the way music was being composed at that time.
: And he was a major factor in the success of a phenomenon called Rajesh
RDB did improve recording technique & had the whole India swoon to his songs
because his songs were catchy. But such things are so ephemeral. For a
change all this songs sounds nice but they become boring after some time.
That explains why Laxmikant Pyarelal lasted longer then RDB. I am not a fan
of LP but I do conceed that they are more Indian in their tunes and certainly
less copycats than RDB.
Can you answer Bappi Lahiri with his brand of plagarised music
effected RDB's market and not LP. You will get an answer why all this
Teesri Manzil type of songs are not long lasting. RDB himself must have
realised and came out with 1942 a love story.
Extending this argument to present day that's the reason why I am so critical
about Rehman's music. He has to prove himself in melodious indian music if
he has to last. He did prove it in Duet and couple of other movies but still
his bread and butter music is all the crap like Urvashi , Rukmani , Muqabla
etc which for a change sounds nice but can't be tolerated again and again
as in Love Brids.
Indian music is rich enough to create melodious songs from our own roots. We
don't have to depend on western notes to compose songs. However that does
not mean that we should not learn from state-of-the-art recording techniques
of western music or computer aided synth music.
Regards.
Ravi Krishna
rkri...@informix.com
Ravi Krishna
: rajesh sharma (sm...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: : let me thank every one with helping me with" kabhi ajnabi the" and
: : with baton baton mein.these songs that i am listing below might exit or
: : they could my brains doing. any help in identifing them would be
: : greatly appreciated.
: : 1) the song goes something like this . sari ki sari ye duniyan
: : meri jeb mein.
: :
: This song is from movie Duniyan Meri Jeb Main. *ring Rishi Kapoor.
: : 2) this movie has darmendra in it, i think. "chal raju apni
: : masti mein choor,koi jiye ya mare"
: :
:
: Movie: Azaad
: : 3) khana se anna huaa ,chera to hai janaa phachana hyuaa,dekh
: : ta hoon koi ladi haseen etc, etc
: : The song dehta hoon koi ladki haseen is from movie Wardhat
Wrong. The song is "khana se anna huaa , ..." if from Heeralal Pannalal
starring Randhir Kappor , Zeenat Aman etc. Music is by RDB.
Dehta hoon koi .. is from Sanam teri kasam starring Kamal Hassan and Rena
Roy. Music is again by RDB. This song is a straight lift of Mustafa oh
Mustafa a 60's hit.
: ( I think at least) *ring Mithun
: Hope This helps ... ( I am not sure oir P_Stats)
: --- Krunal
: :
Aniruddha Deglurkar
> 1) the song goes something like this . sari ki sari ye duniyan
> meri jeb mein.
when someone finds a reply to this one... plz mail me as well...
now i too have lost my sleep over this one...
is it by any chance the title song of "duniya meri jeb mein"
for that matter did a movie by that name ever exist?
seems i m really drifting off into an other world! :(
--
later
kuntal
Yep, it is the title song from "duniya meri jeb mein", *ing Rishi, Neetu and
Shashi(I think).
-a
--
If the world were to come to an end now, I wish I were in Kentucky,
because everything happens there twenty years later.
Ikram Ahmed Khan
: Orlando.
: Hmm, ARR could have mentioned a word of
: thanks when he was busy lifting "Pyar hua ikraar huva" for "Muqaabla
: Muqaabla".
Bhai Ketan, both are really not similar!!
Firstly even you will have to immediately agree that except for the first
line, the tune is sooo different as to be verry different songs. Next
looking at the first line itself one notes the differences in the notes
Pyaa~~r hua, iqraa~~r hua hai,.......
Muk-kaalaaa~~~, Muq-aablaaa~~,........
The dots represent the rest of the songs which are extremely dissimilar to
me. Just looking at the first line, where the '~' was used to signify a
'leher' in the singing, one notes that it takes place at totally different
places. For it to have been first line copies of each other, either Pyar
hua would need to be sung with the emphasis on "hua" or Mukkala would need
to be sung with the emphasis on "Muk"....
However your main argument can still include ARR's name according to me.
"Parkadhe Parkadhe" has the beginning tune almost the same as a Mory Kante
tune. It is the same one on which the Tarzan song Jilele Jilele aayo aayo
jilele is based. However the rest of the song is extremely different from
the original. (including at least one mindblowing violin piece in between)
It can also include Ilaiyaraaja's name for that matter. I *personally*
know that he copied the chorus tune "Baba bababa re" in Appu Raja aka
Apoorva Sahodargal. And we do know from Sandeep that he has copied at
least one if not more tunes.
Later,
Ikram.
: FA Khan, for "Tu cheez badi hai mast mast"? Hmm, Madan Mohan forgot to
: thank Sajjad until he was confronted. OPN never thanked an Italian singer
: for a tune in Bhagambhaag for "He babu, yeh hai zamana tera", nor do I
: think has Naushad thanked some unknown for the original waltz tune to
: "Tarari Tarari". Good Lord! Two of my favourites have commited that sin
: too. KK has yet to mail the thank you note to a tequila singer for
: "Babaloo babaloo baba" from Jhumroo, and although the Beatles did send
: John up the to the great studio in the sky, I don't think he has yet even
: established communication with SDB for letting them use his tune for "The
: Inner light".
: Again according to VishK, CR, Ravi, and SJ have also done it.I do believe
: their word of thanks got lost in network traffic. Hmm, that does not
: leave very many MD's to be proud off, right?
: > Have you noticed that when Anu Malik , Bappi Lahiri are questioned on their
: > copying they always retort saying that RDB also did the same. Why don't they
: > mention SDB or Naushad or Madan Mohan.
: >
: Ahh, but not being able to criticize respected, venerated musicians of
: yesteryear, is a whole other problem. I almost got the job, but then I
: was labelled crazy. Well, too bad. I can see there is no shortage of
: applicants.
: > S. Ravi Krishna
: >
SAMIUDDIN MOHAMMED
>>> That explains why Laxmikant Pyarelal lasted longer then RDB. I am
>>> not a fan of LP but I do conceed that they are more Indian in their
>>> tunes and certainly less copycats than RDB.
>> Incidentally, is longevity a criterion of goodness? That'd
>>make LP *the best* as they have been the longest-lasting MDs of all
>>(including Madan Mohan, SDB, Naushad, Shanky-J or OPN)... Doesn't
> I think, Neeraj, you got the wrong meaning of 'long-lasting'.
Duh! Did he really ? I too read the same meaning as Neeraj.
> Long lasting isn't related to the looooooooooong lasting careers of
> LP. The reason they lasted longer could be something else.
Are we looking for the reason why LP lasted long or trying to define what
"long lasting" is ?
> What Ravi Krishna wants to say, I guess, is that, overall, if the songs
> are remembered for a looooooooooong time, then the composition was good.
> otherwise it wasn't too good.
Perhaps Ravi should step in and clarify what exactly he meant by "LP lasted
longer than RDB". To me, the above statement doesn't make much sense. A lot
of ordinary songs have withstood the test of time and plenty of absolute gems
have been sentenced to oblivion.
> clear ?
I'm afraid not.
> Now carry on with your arguments.......
Sounds like a referee stepping in to separate two boxers :-)
Sami Mohammed (A Naushad fan)
> - shailesh phansalkar.
********************************************************************************
Lines for the day:
Dard banke jo mere dil me raha, DHal na saka
Jaadu banke teri aankhon me ruka, Tal na saka
Aaj laaya hun wohi, geet main tere lie
Majrooh in "Jalte hain jiske lie, teri aankhon ke die...."
********************************************************************************
Arun Verma
Ikram Ahmed Khan <iak...@weber.tamu.edu> wrote:
>Chetan Vinchhi (cvin...@telogy.com) wrote:
>
>: I think his use of singers was limited.
>: Among the male singers, he has made excellent use
>: of Mukesh. But his Rafi and Kishore outputs are very limited
>: in number. And perhaps not as high-quality ?
>
> { I am talking about Zindagi kaisi hai} was probably the best use of
> Manna in a non-classical situation.
>
> Btw, a Q here. Is yeh din kya aaye by Mukesh? If so, did anybody else feel
> that he sounded very different here than normal? Also when was this song? I
> mean the year. Was it very close to Mukesh's untimely death?
>
Yes, Ikram, the film CHOTI SI BAAT came out in 1976, just before Mukesh
Died(1977?). Also, Chetan...you completely ignored one male singer used
a lot by SC(after Mukesh)...Talat Mehmood.....remember Chayya, Ek Gaon ki
Kahani etc! And he did give Hemant K one of his best songs..."Ganga aaye
kahan se"(KABULIWALA)
Cheers
Arun
>
Ravi Krishna
:Ramesh Hariharan for counter-examples... And if I may say so, please
:listen to some more R D Burman before making claims like these. There
:is a bunch of songs that display RDB's mastery over Indian classical
:and neo-classical music (e.g. try listening to 'ayi ri pawan...' or
:'ghar aaja ghir aayi badra').
I am as much aware of RDB classical songs as you are. Don't try to tell me
about good songs of RDB. They are good but I consider my taste to be
better.
:RDB's forte was to realize music as a universal language.
:There is no other composer in Hindi film music that has bridged Indian
:classical and folk tunes with musical styles of such diverse origins
:as West European ('do lafzon ki hai dil ki kahaani'), Arabian ('kaabul
:se aaya hai', all songs in Abdullah)... I could go on. Maybe a glance
:through a small sample of his repertoire (say the ISB annals) will
:reflect this better than any persuasion I do... And listen to 'ham tum
:gumsum raat milan ki' in Hamshakal for some classic folk-westren
:fusion.
What a pathetic justification for copying. Hats off to you. Folks songs
like classical songs are public property and any MD is free to inspire from
it. RDB was good ( no excellent) in recyling from folk songs . No doubt
about it. My only criticism about RDB is that he copies from other MD's (
that is from english pop groups). If RDB had great talent ( as you all
believe) why did he resort to copying. I am sure had the copyright act been
strict in India as in western countries RDB WOULD HAVE BEEN IN JAIL. You
know a particular Micheal Jackson's song was not allowed to be played in
Italy after it was proved that he copied it.
:If you are talking about public taste, then the public has
:already proven you wrong as is evident from the overall tone of
:responses on this thread. Nobody is denying the fact that RDB has
:adapted --- lifted, if you prefer --- foreign tunes a bunch of
:times. But does that make him any less great as an MD? I think a
:majority opinion is 'No'.
Public taste as per definition is popular taste. I am sure you are
mature enough to understand that popular taste is not "class" taste but
"crass" taste.
:There are two kinds of RDB listeners --- there are people who
:think he only composed the dhaaD-dhooD masti-bhare songs and there are
:other people who know of and appreciate every kind of composition that
:comes from his (proverbial) baton... Which kind are you?
As mentioned earlier I am aware of RDB's repotvoire very well. It's a
different matter that I don't consider his songs as great as that of SDB,
Madan Mohan , Shankar JaiKishen.
:Isn't that simply your opinion? This 'best' of Hindi film
:classical music --- is it rated by a panel of four Pandits and Ustaads
:as the best? Or is it just a compilation (made either by you from your
:likes or a record company or whatever) of assorted songs?
Well , I recorded these songs from a 4 casstee pack. I am not sure but I
think they were from HMV. Also Lata M has selected her best songs which has
been released by HMV. RDB is almost non-existant in that. I am sure Lata
knows better about music then you and I.
:Secondly, who are you to pass judgement on Ikram's taste in
:music? How do you know that Ikram hasn't listened to all these other
:composers? Maybe he has and he still thinks Rehman is better. Whatever
:the case may be, he has as much right to having his own taste in music
:as we do ours --- the least we can do is respect that.
Please respect my view when I call RDB a thief.
:Not to me... and not to a lot of other people. His 'catchy'
:songs have 'caught on' to me for twenty years now, and they aren't
:letting go... :-) HMV's RDB GC is the largest-selling one of all their
:compilations according to Rhythm House, Mumbai.
Well that's public taste as I said earlier.
:So now we are changing the battleground --- seems to me the
:issue is no longer copying, per se, but how 'Indian' a particular MD's
:tunes sound... Am I getting you clear here? And therefore you single
:out RDB as the culprit since he indeed was the trendsetter in
:extensive use of western orchestrations in many of his compositions.
Ok you are right. Let's not change the battleground.
:Incidentally, is longevity a criterion of goodness? That'd
:make LP *the best* as they have been the longest-lasting MDs of all
:(including Madan Mohan, SDB, Naushad, Shanky-J or OPN)... Doesn't
:quite gel, does it now? :-) Copycats? Jumma chumma de de... And to
:quote a term Preetham used a while back, LP is *the* epitome of
:formula music.
I never said that longevity is a criteria for good music. How can you infer
like that.
:>Can you answer Bappi Lahiri with his brand of plagarised music
:>effected RDB's market and not LP. You will get an answer why all
:>this Teesri Manzil type of songs are not long lasting. RDB himself
:>must have realised and came out with 1942 a love story.
:Maybe you should phrase that question again --- as it is, it
:makes no clear sense to me. And as regards not doing a 'Teesri Manzil'
:encore for '1942 ALS', the reason should be the same as the one for
:not putting a 'Dam maaro dam' in say, 'Aandhi'.
I will clarify it. What I wanted to say that B Lahiri with his copied
western songs blew away RDB but could not affect LP much because they were
churing out indian songs which the public seemed to like. ( I am not passing
any judgement on the quality of LP songs - that according to me is a
different issue). Finally it took a total indian composition like 1942 ALS
to bring RDB back into limelight.
:Regarding those final comments of yours, what about music
:knowing no barriers of language or culture? What about taking the best
:of both the worlds and blend it to create a richer variety of music?
The trouble is that the dividing line between inspiration / blending /
copying is so less that it is very easy to cross the fence. And RDB did
cross the fence.
:What's wrong about using western notes to compose a song if it is a
:*good* Indian-feeling song that results (remember Salilda)? I don't
Salilda use to indianise it , not copy shamlessly like RDB. Also Salida's
inspiration were from Western Classical which as I said earlier were public
property just like Indian classical ragas. RDB was inspired from ABBA ,
Beatles and other Pop groups. Their work was private and can't be used by
others without their consent.
:mind going on record to state that I actually *like* a select number
:of copied songs not just from RDB but also by Bappi, Annu Malik and
:Anand-Milind and their ilk --- because the MDs involved have taken the
:care to give the song an Indian flavor.
What about recycling old Hindi songs of 50's and giving it a modern touch.
Will you like it and give credit to the MD for being innovative.
S. Ravi Krishna
rkri...@informix.com
Neeraj Deshmukh - The Falcon
Non-standard claimer: This post was conceived jointly, and hence
represents the opinions of myself, Ketan Dholakia and Ikram Ahmed
Khan.
In article <4h4mrr$k...@news.informix.com> rkri...@informix.com (Ravi
Krishna) writes:
> I am as much aware of RDB classical songs as you are. Don't try to
> tell me about good songs of RDB. They are good but I consider my
> taste to be better.
Haa haa haa haa haa haa... *guffaw* *rolling in laughter* So
this is 'proof by intimidation', right? "Better believe that I know
better/ I am right/ I am better than you because *I* say so!" :-)
C'mon Ravi, you can do better than that... :-)
And why shouldn't we tell you about good songs of RDB? It is
evident that you don't know about many of them (going by your
responses to a number of songs that a lot of people on this thread
have pointed out), and one wonders why you want to turn a deaf ear to
them... Could it be possibly because you're afraid they'd prove you
wrong?
> What a pathetic justification for copying. Hats off to you. Folks
> songs like classical songs are public property and any MD is free to
> inspire from it. RDB was good ( no excellent) in recycling from
> folk songs . No doubt about it. My only criticism about RDB is
> that he copies from other MD's ( that is from English pop groups).
> If RDB had great talent ( as you all believe) why did he resort to
> copying. I am sure had the copyright act been strict in India as in
> western countries RDB WOULD HAVE BEEN IN JAIL. You know a
> particular Michael Jackson's song was not allowed to be played in
> Italy after it was proved that he copied it.
Oh... only two posts ago you had objections to SDB and RDB
using Baangla folk tunes (oops --- the words were 'shamelessly
lifting') for their songs... Now that you are on this 'Indianness'
plank suddenly that is condoned, huh? :-) My cap off to you (I'm
afraid I don't wear hats).
BTW, who justified copying? Guess you didn't read before you
wrote -- I clearly said that we *all* agree that RDB lifted tunes. But
that doesn't make him any lesser an MD in greatness in my eyes, in
part because even the tunes he copied he made Indian masterpieces out
of them. After all, jo bhi kiya us ne kiya shaan se...
Since you say, that your only criticism of RDB is that he
copies from "English pop groups", you must also serve legal subpoenas
to SDB, MM, KK, SJ, CR, SalilC, OPN, Ravi, ARR, Ilayaraja, Naushad,
<insert your favorite MD here> etc for having done the same, too.
Agreed? Boy, I think I should commit a crime to be able to go to jail
along with such illustrious people. :-)
> Public taste as per definition is popular taste. I am sure you are
> mature enough to understand that popular taste is not "class" taste
> but "crass" taste.
Now you are making me laugh again... :-) So you have the
'class' and 'public' doesn't, I guess... Beware, my dear fellow, you
are part of the public too... As the old jungle saying goes, people
living in glass houses shouldn't change clothes (or something like
that)... :-)
Wasn't it your post a few days back that talked about Naushad
being great because it is ze public that loves his music even now? I
find it funny that you value public 'crass' opinions only as long as
they suit your cause... :-)
> As mentioned earlier I am aware of RDB's repotvoire very well. It's
> a different matter that I don't consider his songs as great as that
> of SDB, Madan Mohan , Shankar JaiKishen.
It is a different matter that you don't *like* them as much as
those of some other MDs.
> Well , I recorded these songs from a 4 casstee pack. I am not sure
> but I think they were from HMV. Also Lata M has selected her best
> songs which has been released by HMV. RDB is almost non-existant in
> that.
Lata has released several such 'mon favorit' collections, not
just one. Why don't we do a little homework and check them all out?
One such collection I know (again on HMV) has songs like 'raina beeti
jaaye', 'mere nainaa saawan bhaado', 'beeti na bitaayi raina' etc. EMI
has also released a CD of 'Lata Mangeshkar sings for R D Burman',
which has been reviewed in detail on this newsgroup a few months
back. As you say, Lata does know music better than you and I. :-) And
how about Asha? Let's count her favorites too... :-)
Regarding RDB's classical compositions being absent in your
collection, there are many more collections which feature them. There
is this EMI CD titled "Classical greats from Hindi films" that has a
bunch of songs by R D Burman (e.g. aayo kahaan se ghanshyaam, piyaa
baawari etc.), for instance. For some more such examples of Pancham's
classic classical works please look at
http://roblix.eng.ohio-state.edu:80/~sridhar/raagsongs.html
Again, you ignore an important consideration of music-making
--- the social scenario. Given the sheer volume of period movies in
the 40's-60's era, it is natural that most classical songs would be
from that period. RDB came on the scene when the period, historical,
social movies were declining, and being replaced by the RajeshK and AB
movies heavily reflecting a general trend in the Indian society
towards things western. The music in these movies demanded a western
touch. It is in fact to Pancham's credit that he evolved a style that
fused western music into a very ethnic form, and maintained a quality
of Indianness in them (one out of thousands of examples --- 'chingaari
koi bhaDake...').
> I am sure Lata knows better about music then you and I.
Oh most certainly. But I don't *have* to like every song that
Lata likes, do I now (it's a different issue that I happen to like
them all, but!)? And if so, does it mean that my taste in music is
bad? Just because Lata prefers gulaabjamuns doesn't mean that my
shrikhand is bad... :-)
> Please respect my view when I call RDB a thief.
One, you sidestepped the issue of your passing judgement on
Ikram, not surprizingly... :-)
Two, no one has cast any aspersions on your tastes in
music. Not only have we respected your view on RDB as a plagiarist, we
have also agreed with it. Our problem is with your tirade about how
that makes him inferior than others (when others have also done the
same thing, as has been pointed out in numerous posts on this thread)
and your attitude that comes through as 'I know best because I say so
and hence you should all agree to what I say'. That, my friend, sucks.
> I never said that longevity is a criteria for good music. How can
> you infer like that.
From your statement about 'that explains how LP lasted longer
than RDB'...
> I will clarify it. What I wanted to say that B Lahiri with his
> copied western songs blew away RDB but could not affect LP much
> because they were churing out indian songs which the public seemed
> to like. ( I am not passing any judgement on the quality of LP
> songs - that according to me is a different issue).
And exactly how did BL blow away RDB? And exactly how did he
not affect LP? I don't think you have clarified this at all...
> Finally it took a total indian composition like 1942 ALS to bring
> RDB back into limelight.
Hmm... Remarkable that you find 1942 ALS a 'total Indian
composition'. Could you explain what led you to this conclusion? To
me, 'kuchh na kaho' is a classic Waltz-inspired tune. 'rooTh na jaana
tum se kahoon to' is anything but Indian. I wonder what makes a song
or tune 'completely Indian' in your books.
> The trouble is that the dividing line between inspiration / blending
> / copying is so less that it is very easy to cross the fence. And
> RDB did cross the fence.
*sigh* At the cost of sounding like a broken record, we have
all agreed upon this for a long long time. The difference is that you
seem to only see RDB as the leader of the group who crossed the picket
line, whereas we (with specific examples listed) know him to be no
worse than the other 'greats' (like SDB, OPN, Naushad, CR etc etc) who
have done the same. Single out R D Burman because he is so popular?
Target him because he did a marvelous job of it?
> Salilda use to indianise it , not copy shamlessly like RDB. Also
> Salida's inspiration were from Western Classical which as I said
> earlier were public property just like Indian classical ragas. RDB
> was inspired from ABBA , Beatles and other Pop groups. Their work
> was private and can't be used by others without their consent.
Maybe you haven't heard 'aankhon mein tum..' from 'Half
Ticket'... That certainly doesn't sound like Western classical to
me. And as regards RD's *inspiration* (I see you have finally come
around to appreciate the meaning of that word :-) ) how do you explain
songs like 'jeevan ke din chhoTe sahi'?
> What about recycling old Hindi songs of 50's and giving it a modern
> touch. Will you like it and give credit to the MD for being
> innovative.
Oh yes, I certainly will *if* it is done well. You surely know
of a mid-80s Navketan film called 'Main tere liye'. The title song is
a great example of when a renovated tune can be as wonderful as its
origin. The MD in question here is BL, too, the bad boy of MDs. Even
Rahman (in my personal opinion, and at the risk of hurting Ikram's
fond sentiments for him) is more of a quilt-maker. :-) In his music
one can detect little 10 second bits of music inspired from a whole
gamut of sources from Beethoven to banjaaras... But man, he's
innovativeness personified in today's field of MDs.
One last word on this thread. I have tried to the best of my
ability to convince Ravi of my viewpoint, with arguments backed by
examples and facts (and a lot of help by some fellow RMIMers), only to
hear "I know better" without any concrete justifications and have
personal judgements passed upon my close RMIM friends. I do not wish
to get personal with fellow RMIMers when discussing music and music
personalities. I am convinced that Ravi (especially after his last two
posts) has nothing more to say on this issue by way of constructive
contribution, and I refuse to get drawn into a mudfight. Therefore,
this will be my last post on this subject. Thank you very much to all
who listened, commented, criticized and helped with your feedback and
knowledge.
Ciao,
ND
with Ketan & Ikram
Rizwan M. Syed
>> 1) the song goes something like this . sari ki sari ye duniyan
>> meri jeb mein.
> when someone finds a reply to this one... plz mail me as well...
> now i too have lost my sleep over this one...
> is it by any chance the title song of "duniya meri jeb mein"
>later
>kuntal
You using someone else's account? Or is Kuntal not your real name?
Anyway, you are correct, it IS from a movie called 'Duniyaa meri jeb mei.n'
starring Rishi Kapoor, and MAYBE neetu Singh.
Rizwan
--
Syed Rizwan
Neha Desai
Ravi Krishna <rkri...@informix.com> wrote:
>Salilda use to indianise it , not copy shamlessly like RDB. Also Salida's
>inspiration were from Western Classical which as I said earlier were public
>property just like Indian classical ragas. RDB was inspired from ABBA ,
>Beatles and other Pop groups. Their work was private and can't be used by
>others without their consent.
arent the western classicals..specifically the one in question a part of
private work(if u call it that) of Mozart??
maybe you might want to check out the copyright laws for these works...
didnt know they were public property...thanks for educating me...
--
bye for now
neha
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
aanewaala pal....jaanewaala hai...
Pradeep Dubey
|> In article <4hlbue$p...@watnews1.watson.ibm.com>,
|> Pradeep Dubey <pra...@watson.ibm.com> wrote:
|> >In article <4hagnh$s...@gandalf.rutgers.edu>, sam...@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Sambit Basu) writes:
|> >|> cvin...@telogy.com (Chetan Vinchhi) writes:
|> >|>
|> >|> >I think his use of singers was limited. Indeed, an extreme
|> >|> >statement like "SC's music began with Lata and ended with Lata"
|> >|> >would not be too far off the mark. For me, few of his male
|> >|> >compositions or duets and even fewer of his compositions
|> >|> >for other female singers soar to the heights achieved by his
|> >|> >Lata solos.
|> >|>
|> >|> was more compatible with Lata's style of singing than
|> >|> enybody else's.
|> >|>
|> >|> Even in Bengali songs, he used Lata more than any other
|> >|> female singer (barring probably Sabita Chowdhry and
|> >|> Antara Chowdhury).
|> >
|> >Sorry for being out-of-touch-with-rmim for a while.
|> >Before I begin, let me add that this is the kind of discussion
|> >I was hoping to start when I started this thread. So thanks Chetan
|> >for starting some serious discussion on this topic.
|> >
|> >Among the female singers, it is true that he mostly stuck to Lata.
|> >But then how many Latas were there to choose from :-)
|> >(I am just rephrasing what was said above).
|> >
|> >I am still searching for a Salil-GeetaDutt song. Perhaps
|> >there isn't one, I don't quite know why?
|>
|> Well, pradeep, there is this chirpy duet with KK from Half Ticket..
|> "aankhon mein tum, dil mein tum ho, jano ke na jano.."
|> I don't know any Geeta solos with the master
|>
Preetham pointed out to me some more of Salil-Geeta combos from
"amanat".
|>
|> >Note that he didn't compose too many films/songs anyway.
|> >So in absolute terms, you would find fewer songs of his for any singer.
|> >He gave Yesudas some of his best (jaaneman ..., Anand Mahal, Jeena Yahan).
|> >He gave MannaD some of his best. And I disagree with the not-high-quality
|> >stuff for Kishore. Koi-hota is listed by KK himself as one
|> >of his best. It's impossible imagining anyone else singing this gem.
|> >That lover 'chhota sa ghar', aawaaz song, and especially haal-chaal
|> >are some of KK's finest IMO, ignoring the Half-ticket types.
|> >
|>
|> how can you ignore 'half ticket types..', whenever I start playing half-ticket,
|> I rewind and replay it at least 4-5 times :-) with out exception
|>
Sorry Arun ... I didn't really mean 'ignoring'. I should have said: 'besides'.
Pradeep
|>
|> cheerio
|> Arun
|>
|>
|>
Neeraj Malhotra
What I have understood from the last few postings that Salil C. used
mainly LATA for his songs and that his use of singers was somewhat
limited.
I for one was always under the opposite impression, that he uses
singers liberally :
2 examples :
The famous Madhumati has the following songs and note the singers :
1. Julmi sang aankh ladi...Lata
2. Suhaana safar...Mukesh
3. Dil tadap tadap ke...Mukesh, Lata
4. Aaja re pardesi...Lata
5. Ghadi ghadi mora dil dhadke...Lata
6. Toote hue khwabon ne...Rafi
7. Jungle mein mor nacha...Rafi
8. O daiya re daiya chad gaya papi...Lata, Manna Dey
9. Tan jale man jalta rahe...Dwejen Mukharjee
10. Kanchle kaanchi laai lajo...Asha,Sabita Mukharjee, Ghulam Mohammad
11. Hum hale dil sunayenge...Mubarak Begum
I wonder if Ghulam Mohammad listed here is one and the same as the MD GM ?
Here are a few songs from Kabuliwala : More singers than number of songs :)
1. Ganga aaye kahan se...Hemant K.
2. Aye mere pyaare watan...Manna Dey
3. Ya Kurbaan...Rafi
4. Kabuliwala aaya, kabuliwaala....Hemant, Usha M, Ranu Mukherji,
Sabita Banerjee
There was also some discussion on how comfortable he was with Ghazals ?
MDs don't have to create music of every form to be Great ? Is it ?
Everyone has their own specialty. Roshan was a king of Qwaalis, do we req.
that he also compose music on Bengali & Asamis folk music to be counted with
Anil Biswas or SDB or Salil C ? NO.... He stands alone in his style for
Qwaalis. Yes the more variety MDs give, the greater their music but they
don't have to. Would you say that your Cardilogist is not a good doctor
because he cannot repair your bones ? Just a thought ....
- Neeraj Malhotra..... Why are we seeking criticism of great people anyway ?
dhavalj...@gmail.com
> Deepak Dhamdhere (dee...@best.com) wrote:
> : "Ae mere humsafar" from Bazigaar is a DIRECT copy of the following
> : song that is picturized on Kishore / Madhubala (?) in a car flying
> : through the sky!
> : Film: Mr. X in Bombay
> : MD: Laxmikant Pyarelaal
> : Singer: Kishore Kumar
>
> I agree with the above. Before we blame Anu Malik let me tell you something.
> Blatant copying has been going on for years. I know this will hurt R D
> Burman fans in this NG but it's a fact that he also used to copy a LOT. I am
> giving below some songs which RDB copied blatantly with no shame:-
>
> Name of the song Singer Film
>
> Chura liya hai tumn Asha and rafi Yaddon ki barat
>
> Mehmooba Mehooba RDB Sholay
>
> Jab andehara hota hai Asha and Bhupinder Raja Rani
>
> Aaja meri bahon Kishore Kumar Some Anil Dawan
> movie of early 70's.
>
> Dekta hun koi ladki haseen Kishore Kumar Sanan teri kasam
>
> Mil gaya hum ko Asha and KK Hum kisi se kam nahin
>
> Tu hai meri jindagani Asha and Amit Kumar Inderjeet
>
> and many more.
>
> I am sure RDB must have copied much more. His source varies from english
> songs to even pakistani song. The last song in the above list is lifted from
> a pakistani song to glorify benazir bhutto.
>
> The list mentioned above are authentic copy as I have myself heard the
> original songs. Also Usha Uthup in a program in "Z" TV sang some of the above
> mentioned songs (original). Jatin Lalit in some interview also showed how
> RDB use to copy.
>
> I have been accused of flame provoker but this is not a flame. I am only
> telling a fact. I myself is a fan of RDB but I can't accept his copying.
> On this count I give RDB very low marks.
>
> I have bashed Rehman but I do concede that he is ORIGINAL. He may have done
> some cut and paste but he adds something. Can't be termed as copying. What
> RDB did was to copy it w/out any change.
>
> Why blame Anu Malik or Bappi Lahiri.
Mr Ravi 110% agree with you.RD Burman used to copy.
shu...@gmail.com
> I was listening to an old song by Madan Mohan from Aap Ki Parchaiyaan. The
> song was "Yahi Hai Tamanna". It sounds alot like "Saagar Kinare". I also
> saw an interwiew in which he said that he lifted this song.
>
> They are both still great songs, though. The good thing is that even in
> the "copying" of a song, RD Burman, and many other MD's put their own
> style into the songs. Not to point fingers, but songs like Tu Cheez Badi
> Hai Mast Mast and such which are blatant copies don't have that
> "something" added from the MD.
>
> --Vishal Ailawadhi
The original from which both have3 "lifted" is Thandi havayen -NauJavan.(SDB).
Mokammel Karim
1
Mehbooba Mehbooba [Film: Sholay (1975)] <TC>
Inspired from Demis Roussoss's Say You Love Me.
Listen to Mehbooba | Say you love me
Demis' original was released in 1974, while Sholay came out in 1975. See Link - Check out the 3rd album listed!
2
Tumse milke [Film: Parinda] <TC>
Inspired from Leo Sayer's When I Need You.
Listen to Tumse Milke | When I need you
When I need you was recently popularized by Rod Stewart. R D Burman's was a good Indianized version of the original!
3
Chura liya hai [Film: Yaadon ki baraat]
Rehashed from the theme of the movie 'If its Tuesday this must be Belgium'
Listen to Chura liya | If its Tuesday
4
Jeevan ke har modh pe [Film: Jhoota kahinka]
The interesting trivia addition to this is Santana did not compose this song. The song was originally composed by Brazilian singer and composer Nonato Buzar, for a 1970 Brazilian TV series with the same title (Verão Vermelho, meaning Red Summer). The original song was rather short, just 1 minute and 37 seconds and was more music and less vocals (by Brazilian singer Elis Regina). Santana homage to Elis Regina in 1976 is a much closer version to Pancham's Hindi variant.
Listen to
Jeevan ke har modh par:
Verão Vermelho (Santana):
Verão Vermelho (Elis Regina):
5
Dekta hun koi ladki haseen [Film: Sanam teri kasam]
Inspired from a traditional Egyptian track, 'Mustafa mustafa', made popular by Bob Azzam's French version.
Listen to Dekhta hun | Ya mustafa
Nadeem Shravan used the original to create a song in Aatish!
6
Milgaya hum ko sathi [Film: Hum Kissse sai kam nahin] <TC>
From ABBA's Mama mia!
7
Kaisa tera pyar [Film: Love Story]
From ABBA's 'I have a dream'
8
Jeevan ke din chotte sahi [Film: Bade Dilwala]
From the theme of Love Story, by Francis Lai!
9
Aao twist karein [Film: Bhoot bangla]
From the track 'Come lets twist again' by Chubby Checker!!
10
Tera mujhse hai pehle ka naata koi [Film: Aaa Gale Lag Ja] <TC>
From the track 'The Yellow Rose of Texas' by Elvis Presley!
11
Phir wohi raat hain [Film: Ghar] <TC>
The opening 3 lines same as the Carpenters' song "Sing a song"
12
Kahin karti hogi [Film: Phir kab milogi] <TC>
Inspired by The Lonely Bull by Herb Albert and Tijuana Brass.
13
Tum ho meri dil ki dhadka [Film: Manzil] <TC>
Inspired by Procol Harem's 'A whiter shade of pale'
14
Sapna mera toot gaya [Film: Khel khel mein] <TC>
Inspired by Ennio Morricone's piece 'The story of a soldier' from the Sergio Leone cult western classic 'The good, The Bad and The Ugly'.
15
O mehki mehki thandi hawa [Film: Bombay to Goa] <TC>
Inspired by the Beach Boys number 'Help me Rhonda'
Lifted!
16
Ek main aur ek tu [Film: Khel khel mein] <TC>
Inspired by the nursery rhyme 'If you're happy...'
17
Meri jaan [Film: Do chor] <TC>
Inspired by Cliff Richard's 'Fall in love'
18
Tum mere zindagi mein [Film: Bombay to Goa]
Inspired by the Theme from Limelight composed by Charlie Chaplin for the 1951 movie of the same name!
19
Koi ladka koi ladki [Film: Seeta aur geeta] <TC>
Inspired by 'Did you ever' (1971) by Lee Hazlewood and Nancy Sinatra.
20
Jab andhera hota hai [Film: Raja Rani] <TC>
Inspired by 'The age of aquarius' by The Fifth Dimension.
21
Mera kaha manoge [Film: Gurudev] <TC>
Inspired from Gloria Estefan and the Miami Sound machine's 'Oye mi canto'
22
Zindagi milke bitaayenge [Film: Satte pe satta] <TC>
[ItwoFS] comments:
Inspired by 'The Longest day' from the movie of the same name, by Paul Anka.
23
Main jhonka mast hawa ka [Film: Double Cross] <TC>
Inspired by Frank Sinatra's 'What now my love' (1966).
24
Maine tumko chaha pehli baar [Film: Double Cross] <TC>
Inspired by Jose Feliciano's 'Listen to the falling rain' (1972).
25
Kaahe apnon ko [Film: Raampur ka Laxman (1972)] <TC>
Mukhda inspired by the central motif in the second movement ('Romance')
26
Teri hai zameen [Film: The Burning Train (1980)] <TC>
Inspired by the Christmas carol, 'The first noel'!
Listen to Teri hai zameen | The first Noel
Inspired! John Denver's rendition of The First Noel added here!
27
Mausam pyar ka [Film: Sitamgar (1983)] <TC>
Inspired by the Christmas carol, 'The first noel'!
28
Aaja o mere raja [Film: Apna Desh (1972)] <TC>
Inspired by the song 'Blue Light Yokohama' by Japanese singer, Ayumi Ishida
29
Maine dil diya [Film: Zameen Aasmaan (1982)] <TC>
Inspired by the song 'Pulstar' by Vangelis!
30
Tumne yeh theek socha hai [Film: Imaan (1974)]
A small phrase inspired by the Beatles track, 'Norwegian Wood'!
31
O Maria [Film: Saagar (1985)]
The opening line of the song inspired by the song 'Mamunia' by Paul McCartney and the Wings!
32
Aa Dekhe Zara [Film: Rocky (1981)]
Partly inspired by the track, 'Eve of the war' by Jeff Wayne.
33
Aaya hoon mein tujko le jaaoonga [Film: Manoranjan (1974)] <TC>
Inspired by the track by Sergio Mendes, 'After Sunrise'.
34
Kahin na jaa [Film: Bade Dilwala (1983)] <TC>
Inspired by the French singer Edith Piaf's 1946 number, 'La vie en rose'.
35
O Jab Tak Hai Jaan [Film: Sholay (1975)] <TC>
Inspired from the prelude of 'Jomeh', by Iranian singer Googoosh!
36
Aaj tu gair sahi [Film: Oonche Log (1985)] <TC>
Originally composed by Kemal Ahamad, for the 1983 Pakistani movie 'Dehleez' and sung by Mehdi Hassan.
37
Aap sa koi haseen [Film: Chandi Sona (1977)] <TC>
Gharibeh Ashena, composed by Shamaiezadeh and sung by Googoosh in the early 70s.
38
Kabhi bekasi ne [Film: Alag Alag (1985)] <TC>
Blatant, direct lift from the Pakistani track 'Kabhi khwaishon ne' from the 1982 film, Mehrbani, sung by Akhlaq Ahmad and composed by M Ashraf.
39
Raju chal raju [Film: Azaad (1978)] <TC>
Inspired by the song, 'It was a very good year', composed by Ervin Drake in 1961 and subsequently made popular by Frank Sinatra as a single in 1965.
40
Karo baaten [Film: Bhanwar (1976)] <TC>
Inspired by Donovan's 1968 track, 'Jennifer Juniper'.
41
Katra katra [Film: Ijazat (1986)] <TC>
Inspired Jeff Wayne's 'Horsell common and the heat ray' from the 1978 musical, 'War of the worlds'
42
Aaja tujhe pyaar [Film: Ehsaan (1970)] <TC>
Inspired by the jazz standard 'St. Thomas' made popular by sax artist Sonny Rollins.
43
Jahan teri yeh nazar hai [Film: Kaalia (1981)] <TC>
Generously inspired by Persian pop singer Zia Atabi's 'Heleh maali (1977)
44
Dilbar mere [Film: Satte Pe Satta (1982)] <TC>
Inspired by the German track by name, 'Zigeunerjunge' (meaning, Gypsy boy - released in 1967) by Doris Nefedov, who's more popular stage name was Alexandra.
45
Kal kya hoga [Film: Kasme vaade (1978)] <TC>
Significantly inspired by the 1975 song, 'Hafanama' by Afric Simone, a singer from Mozambique.
46
Dil sajan jalta hai [Film: Mukti (1977)]
Inspired in the true sense, by the track, 'Korbosha (Down by the river) from the South African stage musical, Ipi Ntombi (1974).
47
Kasme vaade nibhayenge hum [Film: Kasme vaade (1978)]
Inspired by 'Sesiya hamba' from Ipi Ntombi (1974).
source: http://www.itwofs.com/hindi-rdb.html