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chlao ekbaar firse - Lyrics

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shri37

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Jun 23, 2008, 8:19:12 AM6/23/08
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Song: Chalo Ek Baar Phir Se

Film: Gumrah (1963)
Singer: Mahendra Kapoor
Lyricist: Sahir Ludhianvi
Music Director: Ravi


Chalo Ek Baar Phir Se
Lyrics:

Chalo ek baar phir se, ajnabi ban jaye ham dono
Chalo ek baar phir se, ajnabi ban jaye ham dono


Na main tumse koi ummeed rakhoon dilnavaazi ki
Na tum meri taraf dekho galat andaaz nazaron se
Na mere dil ki dhadkan ladkhadaaye meri baaton mein
Na zaahir ho tumhaari kashm-kash ka raaz nazaron se
Chalo ek baar phir se...


Tumhen bhi koi uljhan rokti hai peshkadmi se
Mujhe bhi log kehte hain, ki yeh jalve paraaye hain
Mere hamraah bhi rusvaaiyaan hain mere maajhi ki
Tumhaare saath bhi guzri hui raaton ke saaye hain
Chalo ek baar phir se...

Taarruf rog ho jaaye to usko bhoolnaa behtar
Taalluk bojh ban jaaye to usko todnaa achchha
Voh afsaana jise anjaam tak laana na ho mumkin
Use ek khoobsoorat mod dekar chhodna achchha
Chalo ek baar phir se...

*****

I have copied it from Sulekha,com

Afzal A. Khan

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Jun 23, 2008, 9:33:52 AM6/23/08
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shri37 wrote:


Some amendments are suggested below :

> Song: Chalo Ek Baar Phir Se
>
> Film: Gumrah (1963)
> Singer: Mahendra Kapoor
> Lyricist: Sahir Ludhianvi
> Music Director: Ravi
>
>
> Chalo Ek Baar Phir Se
> Lyrics:
>
> Chalo ek baar phir se, ajnabi ban jaye ham dono
> Chalo ek baar phir se, ajnabi ban jaye ham dono


ban jaayeN hum donoN


>
>
> Na main tumse koi ummeed rakhoon dilnavaazi ki
> Na tum meri taraf dekho galat andaaz nazaron se


GHalat~andaaz naz'roN

> Na mere dil ki dhadkan ladkhadaaye meri baaton mein


(I am not sure about the above line)


> Na zaahir ho tumhaari kashm-kash ka raaz nazaron se
> Chalo ek baar phir se...
>
>
> Tumhen bhi koi uljhan rokti hai peshkadmi se


pesh~qadmi


> Mujhe bhi log kehte hain, ki yeh jalve paraaye hain
> Mere hamraah bhi rusvaaiyaan hain mere maajhi ki


maazi


> Tumhaare saath bhi guzri hui raaton ke saaye hain
> Chalo ek baar phir se...
>
> Taarruf rog ho jaaye to usko bhoolnaa behtar

Perhaps "ban", instead of "ho"

> Taalluk bojh ban jaaye to usko todnaa achchha


Ta'alluq

> Voh afsaana jise anjaam tak laana na ho mumkin
> Use ek khoobsoorat mod dekar chhodna achchha
> Chalo ek baar phir se...
>
> *****
>
> I have copied it from Sulekha,com


All through the lyrics, the word used is "phir se",
so why "firse" in the title ? "Phir se" is quite
correct.


Afzal

Sanjeev Ramabhadran

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Jun 23, 2008, 10:45:34 AM6/23/08
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The original post is correct here - it is "ho jaaye".

Sanjeev

cyberhunt

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Jun 23, 2008, 4:44:06 PM6/23/08
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Hi:

I think that firse is the word in poster's mind when he began to post
lyrics, so he wrote firse in the title. But as he began to touch lyric, he
thought "phir se" is better, so he used "phir se" through the lyrics. But he
forgot to change the firse in the title before posting. So that is why you
saw different versions of word in title and lyrics.

"Afzal A. Khan" <me_a...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:g3o8o1$hf9$1...@registered.motzarella.org...

Asif

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Jun 23, 2008, 6:49:27 PM6/23/08
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On Jun 23, 4:44 pm, "cyberhunt" <dawnl...@walla.com> wrote:
> Hi:
>
> I think that firse is the word in poster's mind when he began to post
> lyrics, so he wrote firse in the title. But as he began to touch lyric, he
> thought "phir se" is better, so he used "phir se" through the lyrics. But he
> forgot to change the firse in the title before posting. So that is why you
> saw different versions of word in title and lyrics.
>

Nopes, a lot of people incorrectly speak/write "fir se" or "firse". I
am sure the original poster did not even think about his bad habit
when he came across the word "phir se" in the song lyrics (that he
just copied from there and posted here). You are giving him too much
credit by saying that "he thought phir se was better, so he used phir
se through the lyrics". Bad habits die hard, just like some people
will never know the difference between 'z' and 'jh' - they will always
speak/write 'Aaya Saawan Zoomke' instead of 'Aaya Saawan Jhoomke' no
matter how the official title of the film is spelled in bold letters
on film posters, credit rolls, magazines, and a host of other media.
I was shocked to see Karan Johar pronouncing 'Jeenat Aman' on one of
his TV shows featuring Zeenat and Hema a few years ago.

shri37

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Jun 24, 2008, 1:07:48 AM6/24/08
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I have written to Afzalbhai in personal email that I am not an expert,
I am only novice.Asifbhai has very correctly analyzed the
situation.After some time when the discussion on lyrics are over I
wish to include all thew corrections and post the correct lyrics.I
love this song and its philosophy.
whatever it is at least give me credit to post the lyrics !!
shri37,,,

guzoon

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Jun 24, 2008, 3:53:19 AM6/24/08
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On 23 Jun, 15:45, Sanjeev Ramabhadran <sanjeev.ramabhad...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Just to confirm that not only 'ho jaae' is correct; 'ban jaae' will
certainly weaken the stanza because it is also used in the second
line.

Vijay

Afzal A. Khan

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Jun 24, 2008, 9:54:56 AM6/24/08
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shri37 wrote:

> shri37,,,

Shri-ji,


I will gladly give you all the credit for posting these lyrics.
Even otherwise, I read your contributions to RMIM with great
interest.

However, I have not received any personal e-mail from you.
My e-mail address is il (underscore) khan at yahoo dot com.
Perhaps your mail was sent to Asif Alvi.

Afzal

Naseer

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Jun 24, 2008, 5:19:42 PM6/24/08
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On Jun 24, 6:07 am, shri37 <shr...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I love this song and its philosophy.


> whatever it is at least give me credit to post the lyrics !!
> shri37,,,

Shri 37 jii, aadaab.

Thank you for posting this beautiful song. I know Vijay Sahib may
disagree but Mahendra Kapoor came close to Rafi in this superb
rendition. So, as a token of gratitude, I am re-typing the song again,
incorporating Afzal Sahib's comments.

chalo ik baar phir se, ajnabii ban jaaeN ham dono(N)
chalo ik baar phir se, ajnabi ban jaaeN ham dono

nah maiN tum se koii ummiid rakhuun dil-navaazii kii
nah tum merii taraf dekho Ghalat-andaaz nazaroN se
nah mere dil kii dhaRkan laRkhaRaae merii baatoN meN
nah zaahir ho tumhaarii kash-makash kaa raaz nazaroN se
chalo ik baar phir se...

tumheN bhii koii uljhan roktii hai pesh-qad(a)mii se
mujhe bhii log kehte haiN, kih yih jalve paraae haiN
mere ham-raah bhii rusvaaiyaaN haiN mere maazii kii
tumhaare saath bhii guzrii huii raaton ke saae haiN
chalo ik baar phir se...

ta'aaruf rog ho jaae to us ko bhoolnaa bih-tar
ta'alluq bojh ban jaae to us ko toRnaa achchhaa
vuh afsaanah, jise anjaam tak, laana nah ho mumkin
use ik KHuub-soorat moR de kar, chhoRnaa achchhaa
chalo ik baar phir se...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cE5q9kst-Zc&amp;feature=related

*****
Naseer

shri37

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Jun 26, 2008, 4:17:11 AM6/26/08
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> Vijay- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Generally we tend to pronounce Urdu words wrongly- Ghazal is called
gajal in gujrat, most of the times Khumar Barabankvi, is called KUMAR
brabankvi
and Dilne fir yaad kiyaa burqki leherayi hai is sung as " BARF si
leher ayi hai,"
However it may weaken the stanza ( which I doubt) it is ban jaae
surely
Shri37

Asif

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Jun 26, 2008, 8:12:30 AM6/26/08
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^^

There you go again. I am sure you meant that you guys in Gujarat sing
"Dil ne *phir* yaad kiya .." as "Dil ne *fir* yaad kiya ..."

Asif

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Jun 26, 2008, 9:27:57 AM6/26/08
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> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cE5q9kst-Zc&feature=related
>
> *****
> Naseer

Naseer Sahab:

Thanks for the youtube link to the song. I saw the film as a boy, so
I do not remember anything from it. But I was extremely disappointed
by the filming of this beautiful song. Sunil Dutt's lips do not syncs
with the song's flow at all - he seems to be singing a bit ahead.
Plus, given the film's sombre mood, his happy face looks jarring. I
was expecting a mix of sadness, taunt, and dejection from his entire
body language. Most importantly, director BR Chopra wasted this song
on a piano and in a boring room. There was no need for Ashok Kumar to
be present in the song. Sunil Dutt could have sung it on some
hillside road, with Mala Sinha walking slowly in the distant or just
sitting on bench.

Anyway, whenever I hear or think about this song, I cannot help
wondering if this remains the single most beautiful song ever written
in Hindi cinema? Another song that comes close is Sahir's another gem
'jab bhii jii chaahe na_ii duniyaa basaa lete hai.n log' (Daag, 1973):

yaad rahataa hai kise guzare zamaane kaa chalan
yaad rahataa hai kise
sard pa.D jaatii hai chaahat haar jaatii hai lagan
ab mohabbat bhii hai kyaa ik tijaarat ke siwaa
ham hii naadaa.N the jo o.Dhaa biitii yaado.n kaa kafan (Note how this
line beautifully sums up the life of a widow and her white garb)
waranaa jiine ke liye sab kuchh bhulaa dete hai.n log

Brilliant poetry! What is the objective definition of the most
beautiful song in Hindi cinema? Do any other song(s) beat the above
two in terms of sheer imagination, beauty of the thought, meaning,
message, and provocation?

Asif

Afzal A. Khan

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Jun 26, 2008, 10:08:27 AM6/26/08
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Asif wrote:

>>>>> Some amendments are suggested below :
>>>>>> Song: Chalo Ek Baar Phir Se
>>>>>> Film: Gumrah (1963)

>>>>> Perhaps "ban", instead of "ho"

>>>> The original post is correct here - it is "ho jaaye".
>>>> Sanjeev
>>> Just to confirm that not only 'ho jaae' is correct; 'ban jaae' will
>>> certainly weaken the stanza because it is also used in the second
>>> line.
>>> Vijay- Hide quoted text -
>>> - Show quoted text -
>> Generally we tend to pronounce Urdu words wrongly- Ghazal is called
>> gajal in gujrat, most of the times Khumar Barabankvi, is called KUMAR
>> brabankvi
>> and Dilne fir yaad kiyaa burqki leherayi hai is sung as " BARF si
> ^^
>
> There you go again. I am sure you meant that you guys in Gujarat sing
> "Dil ne *phir* yaad kiya .." as "Dil ne *fir* yaad kiya ..."


BTW, isn't it "barq si", instead of "barq ki" ?


Afzal

Sunil Dandekar

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Jun 27, 2008, 6:11:28 AM6/27/08
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I had seen this film when I was in my teens, and liked it a lot. In
addition to the top notch songs and some very above average acting, it
had impressed me as a very matured handling of the hackneyed triangle.

This "happy faces singing the sad songs" after the heart break was
almost ISI standard in those days. Surprisingly, other than the hero
and heroine, (except on some occasions the villain and the vamp)
everybody in the scene used to be blissfully unaware of meaning of the
lyrics and the mood of the song. It used to create a cozy conspiracy
between the hero, heroine and the audience.

However the smiling face here is not that of a martyr or a saint
thriving on pain, but of that of a matured adult swallowing a bitter
pill. At least that is how it struck me that time. I have not seen the
film in ages.

This song is also a rarity for me where the sheer punch of the lyrics
overpowered the nice tune. Other songs that fall in this category for
me are Gujare hain aaj ishque main, Mere dushman tu meri, Aaj ki raat
mere..
What an unabashed gluttony of the grief!

Thanks to Shri47 for bringing this song to the table.

regards,

Sunil

Asif

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Jun 27, 2008, 9:01:28 AM6/27/08
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On Jun 27, 6:11 am, Sunil Dandekar <sunnydande...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> However the smiling face here is not that of a martyr or a saint
> thriving on pain, but of that of a matured adult swallowing a bitter
> pill. At least that is how it struck me that time. I have not seen the
> film in ages.
>

I agree that this song is about a man swallowing a bitter pill (you
summed it up perfectly, Sunil), but then Sunil Dutt does not seem to
be conveying this feeling. I am sure Sahir was disappointed when he
saw the song on the screen. Actually, I guess the song is tough to
enact on the screen - you can just feel it. A song with lyrics soaked
in similar sentiments - 'wo wo na rahe jinake liye ham the
beqaraar' (Badalte Rishtey, 1978) - was much better filmed on Rishi
Kapoor. If you have seen the film, you were likely impressed by his
overall performance in the film and just the right facial expressions
in this song. He was a natural actor anyway.

> This song is also a rarity for me where the sheer punch of the lyrics
> overpowered the nice tune. Other songs that fall in this category for
> me are Gujare hain aaj ishque main, Mere dushman tu meri, Aaj ki raat
> mere..
> What an unabashed gluttony of the grief!
>

Among the above 3 songs, I like 'mere dushman' (Aaye Din Bahaar Ke,
1966) a lot in all terms. I have never found a more cursing song.
The lines, like 'jiye tuu is tarah ki zi.ndagii ko tarase', would have
been too strong for the poor heroine to swallow. And sure enough, she
was so overwhelmed that she rushed out to jump from a cliff to put an
end to her misery :-) Incidentally, both Dharmendra and Asha Parekh
acted out the song very well.

Talking about excellent, powerful lyrics, I think there are 5 basic
categories in which lyricists delivered such memorable lyrics in Hindi
cinema: 1) philosophical, 2) praise of heroine's beauty, 3) heartbreak/
sadness, 4) love/happiness, and 5) devotional/religious.
Incidentally, most such songs were sung solo, probably because the
singer could focus completely on the lyrics' mood and message and
maybe to also get full attention from listeners.

A few more that have truly impressed me so far, besides 'mere
dushman', 'chalo ik baar', and 'jab bhii jii chaahe', are:

1. zi.ndagii ke safar me.n (Aap Ki Kasam, 1974)
2. sa.nsaar se bhaage phirate ho (Chitralekha, 1964)
3. man re tuu kaahe na dhiir dhare (Chitralekha, 1964)
4. ab kyaa misaal duu.N (Aarti, 1962) - this poetry stands out for
the line 'chhuu le qadam to jhukake na phir aasamaa.N uThe'.
5. ruk jaanaa nahii.n tuu kahii.n haarake (Imtihaan, 1974)
6. kabhii kabhii mere dil me.n (Kabhi Kabhie, 1976)

Asif

Artnut

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Jun 27, 2008, 10:13:04 AM6/27/08
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"Asif" <alvi...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:a9a63a51-6e21-4e59...@x35g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...


One of such badly picturised or expectation shattering songs I remember
seeing was from Begaana.

Phir woh bhuli si yaad aayi hai,
Aye gham e dil teri duhaai hai


Years ago I saw the song and I think its filmed at the Taj Mahal, Agra.

Some actors who got hit songs filmed on them but could never do justice to
the songs were

Bharat Bhushan
Sunil Dutt

Arty

Afzal A. Khan

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Jun 27, 2008, 10:55:13 AM6/27/08
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Asif wrote:


> A song with lyrics soaked
> in similar sentiments - 'wo wo na rahe jinake liye ham the
> beqaraar' (Badalte Rishtey, 1978) - was much better filmed on Rishi
> Kapoor.


Another such song one can think of was in the 1970 film
"Safar", stg. Sharmila and Rajesh Khanna. "Hum the jin ke
sahaare, woh huwe na hamaare". This lyricist is not talked
about often in our NG, but, to redress the balance, I would
like to give below the complete lyrics of this beautiful
song :

Hum the jin ke sahaare, woh huwe na hamaare
Doobi jab dil ki naiyya, saamne the kinaare
Hum the...........

Kya mohabbat ke w'aade, kya wafaa ke iraade
Ret ki haiN diwaareN, jo bhi chaahe giraa de
Hum the...........

Hai sabhi kuchh jahaaN men, dosti hai wafa hai
Apni yeh kam~naseebi, hum ko na kuchh bhi mila hai
Hum the...........

YooN to dun'ya basegi, tanhaaee phir bhi Dasegi
Jo ziNdagi men kami thi, woh kami to rahegi
Hum the...........

Lyricist : Indeevar

There is a certain spontaneity of expression that highlights the
utter helplessness of the situation --- something that cannot be
remedied. A feeling of sincerity and a surprisingly calm
serenity permeates the song, indicating that the poor girl has
come to terms with her sad lot.

> Among the above 3 songs, I like 'mere dushman' (Aaye Din Bahaar Ke,
> 1966) a lot in all terms. I have never found a more cursing song.
> The lines, like 'jiye tuu is tarah ki zi.ndagii ko tarase', would have
> been too strong for the poor heroine to swallow. And sure enough, she
> was so overwhelmed that she rushed out to jump from a cliff to put an
> end to her misery :-) Incidentally, both Dharmendra and Asha Parekh
> acted out the song very well.


The impact can be much more forceful, if the person singing the
imprecatory song is the leading lady. And one such song is
from an earlier film (1955), "Yaasmeen". CR really excelled
himself in this movie. And the song is "Bechain karne waale,
tu bhi na chain paaye, teri hi be~wafaai, tujh ko lahu rulaaye".
Vyjayanthimala looks so forlorn and helpless. The lyricist,
I believe, was Tanvir Naqvi.

Afzal


> Asif

Asif

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Jun 27, 2008, 11:55:43 AM6/27/08
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This brilliantly composed, beautifully sung, and expertly filmed song
is among my all-time favorites. I particularly like the use of the
word 'kam-nasiibii'. If Indeevar had used 'bad-nasiibii', it would
have probably ruined that stanza a bit. Also, 'kam-nasiibii'
indicates the girl has found at least some solace (in something
else). By the way, was not the song related to Sharmila's character
in the film? I remember Rajesh Khanna did not break any promise (kya
mohabbat ke waade) nor he asked her to remain single (tanhaaii phir
bhii Dasegii) in the film, so I guess the song has nothing do with
Sharmila. So who broke the heart of the girl in the song? And, yes,
I forget who that girl was - I cannot recall her face or name. I am
sure it was not Aruna Irani.

Another excellent lyrics, though not as great as 'chalo ik baar', from
the same film: 'nadiyaa chale, chale re dhaaraa'.

By the way, I was thinking about 'ab kyaa misaal duu.N' (Aarti, 1962)
and got goose bumps by one more line in it:

sau baar jhilamilaaye shamaa aafataab kii

I interpret it to be thus: even the mighty bright sun-ray would
*waver* in her self-confidence about its brightness. Majrooh was very
imaginative to have conjured up this imagery out of the mere wavering
of a shama - just like Ghalib earlier opened up a whole new
perspective on her with this great line: 'shamaa har ra.ng me.n
jalatii hai sahar hone tak'. Long live o great poets!

Asif

Sunil Dandekar

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Jun 27, 2008, 1:47:20 PM6/27/08
to

Afzal ji,

I too immensely like this song. But I like it also for the heart
wrenching tune and the beautiful interludes.

On a slightly different note, in the movie, IS Johar is a struggling
shyre. From various dialogs and situations one gets a feeling that he
has more enthusiasm than talent for his art. After many false starts
he is finally able to get one of his poem composed and a singer is
shown singing this song in a recording room.

Because of this background, when I was watching the film I was little
startled to hear the words. Somewhat difficult to digest that bit.

regards,

Sunil

dn.usenet

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Jun 27, 2008, 4:29:50 PM6/27/08
to

"Afzal A. Khan" <me_a...@invalid.invalid> wrote :

>
> from an earlier film (1955), "Yaasmeen". CR really excelled
> himself in this movie. And the song is "Bechain karne waale,
> tu bhi na chain paaye, teri hi be~wafaai, tujh ko lahu rulaaye".
> Vyjayanthimala looks so forlorn and helpless. The lyricist,
> I believe, was Tanvir Naqvi.
>

Excellent call. This is the only song in the film penned
by Tanvir Naqvi. While Raju Bharatan has got his
song stats quite correct for the most part in his
(worthless) book on Lata, one of his few mistakes
was to attribute all the songs in Yasmin to Jaan
Nisaar Akhtar.

PremC...@gmail.com

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Jun 27, 2008, 7:40:34 PM6/27/08
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On Jun 27, 7:13 am, "Artnut" <a...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Asif" <alvi.a...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> Arty- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Dosto,

I must agree with you all that the songs mentioned are superb. These
types of
songs are the real reason why I just cant appreciate any of the modern
songs .
I feel sorry for the younger generation. Ishq has take a pathetic
turn these days.

Iski vajah kya hai ?? that is a subject of another big
discussion !

Some of my favorites are:

1. Zindgi bhar nahi bhuulegi vo barsaat ki raat
2. Maine shayed tumhe pehle bhee kahin dekha hai
3. Tum ek baar Mohabbat ka imtahaan to lo
4. Payaam-e- Ishq mohabbat hume pasand nahi
5. Salaam -e-hasrat kubool kar lo
6. Practically All the songs from." Pyasa"

And there are so many more ! kya kya bata-ain
Vo Bhuli daastaan lo phir yaad aa gayi !

Prem Joshi

Naseer

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Jun 28, 2008, 1:36:29 PM6/28/08
to

Asif Sahib, aadaab.

I saw this film a long time ago but I do remember the story line. I
believe Ashok Kumar's wife, who happens to be Mala Sinha's sister
dies. Mala Sinha and Sunil Datt love each other. Circumstances compell
her to marry Ashok Kumar. Sunil Datt keeps singing haunting songs like
"aa bhii jaa, aa bhii jaa" etc. Ashok Kumar becomes aware that his
wife has some form of relationship with another man and spies on her.

The central message of the film is that whatever the past may have
been for both the lovers, the wife (in this case) should be totally
faithful to her new husband. We all would have no problem with this.
But, it was rather harsh that these too were made to suffer.

As for the song, normally only the hero/the heroine/the audience know
what the words means in a particular situation. In this scene, Ashok
Kumar is also aware what is being implied. I don't think Sunil Datt is
smiling. He is putting on a brave face. The smile is only a mask over
his true feelings. In this song he is resigned to the fact that the
best way to end their afsaanah is to give it a beautiful twist and
abandon it.

KHair-KHvaah,
Naseer

Afzal A. Khan

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Jun 28, 2008, 4:18:25 PM6/28/08
to


Friends,


Maybe I am "going out on a limb" here.

I saw the film in the Indian city of Ahmedabad in 1963, and did
not like it one bit. B. R. Chopra was a noted film-maker and
his films were mostly quite popular.

In this film, Ashok Kumar and Nirupa Roy are married and have
children too. Nirupa Roy then passes away. Before her death,
IIRC, she urges both her husband and younger sister (Mala Sinha)
too to get married, so that the children can be properly looked
after. Mala and Sunil Dutt are already in love and it is most
difficult for Mala to cast him aside and marry a much older man.
Somehow this second marriage takes place and then Dutt re-enters
her life. He finds it difficult to let bygones be bygones, and
she too finds herself getting drawn towards him. Coming to know
about it, Ashok sets his own secretary to sort of spy on her.
Ultimately, she (literally) shuts the door on Sunil Dutt, with
the remark "YahaaN koi Mala (or her real name) naheeN rehti; yeh
Mrs. Ashok ka ghar hai".

I didn't quite like the idea that nobody is interested in getting
Mala married, even though she is at least 26-27 years of age in
the film. Nobody ever tries to find out whether she has met
anyone else. The pressure is purely emotional, coupled with a
bit of selfishness. The prospect of an outsider "sauteli maaN"
can be avoided and the children's future happiness will also be
secured. Whether she herself would like to get married to a much
older man doesn't seem to strike anyone. Also, the idea of
making life miserable for her through Ashok's own secretary was
quite reprehensible. I don't remember all the dialogue --- it is
possible that B.R. Chopra might have thrown in some lines to sort
of justify his story-line.

To sum up, I found the movie quite regressive It seemed to
convey and perpetuate the idea that, after all, it is a man's
world and that is how it should be.

I do realize that such things happen in real life. So do things
like Sati, Child Marriage, Ostracising Widows etc. But do we
have to make films justifying such things ? I think not.

It is possible that B.R. Chopra might have drawn inspiration from
the real life story of a well-known film personality --- Kamini
Kaushal. When her elder sister passed away, she (under pressure
from her family) married the widower Sood, who was an executive
with Bombay Port Trust, and many years her senior. At the time,
she was supposed to be madly in love with Dilip Kumar. So the
re-marriage amounted to killing two birds with one stone.

Afzal

kcp

unread,
Jun 28, 2008, 11:11:15 PM6/28/08
to
> Naseer wrote:

> >>> nah mere dil kii dhaRkan

Is this the way iTrans defines the word "dhadkan" ? So irritating !

Kcp

Naseer

unread,
Jun 29, 2008, 8:11:14 AM6/29/08
to

Kcp jii,

I am affraid I did n't quite follow your statement. Are you saying
"dhadkan" is so irritating or "dhaRkan"?

I don't know much about iTrans, but I do know that it is a system to
convert Devanagri into Roman system. I have not followed iTrans as is
obvious from my transliteration. This is how I normally write Roman
Urdu. I only appear rarely on this NG. So any irritation caused would
also be very rare:)

Naseer

PremC...@gmail.com

unread,
Jun 29, 2008, 8:50:47 AM6/29/08
to
--------------------------------------------------------
Dosto

Im not an expert user of ITRANs. In fact I dont even use it to
write.
I simply read lyrics written in ITRANS and with my knowledge of Hindi
and some Urdu, I figure out the words.

I have often noticed lengthy arguments as to how to write in ITRANS.
Is there a compilation of "speech to text" and vice versa rule book
with
examples so that I can avoid hurting the feelings of the experts.
Please
help.

The only comment I have is that "the correct pronunciation of words
in Hindi or Urdu is itself a very debatable subject , just as it is
with English.
Reminds me of Professor Higgins in Bernard Shaws' Pygmalion" "There
are
places in England where English completely disappears" So if there
is no
correct pronunciation, there can be no correct script. So Lets enjoy
the nuances
of speech. These nuances are the beginnings of new words and now
accents
and new grammer, All languages are works in progress

Prem Joshi

Abhay Jain

unread,
Jun 29, 2008, 7:41:22 PM6/29/08
to

"Artnut" <a...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:g42sfh$nia$1...@aioe.org...

|
|
| Some actors who got hit songs filmed on them but could never do justice to
| the songs were
|
| Bharat Bhushan
| Sunil Dutt
|
|
|
| Arty
|

I would like to few more who fall in this category

Rajednra Kumar
Asha Parekh
Pradeep Kumar
Shahrukh Khan

AJ


Sunil Dandekar

unread,
Jun 30, 2008, 4:24:04 AM6/30/08
to

No doubt it was regressive, but I think BRC was not trying to justify
it, but was trying to juggle two balls. On one thread he was trying to
show the shattering impact of such regressive practices on two lives
and on the other thread he was trying to establish the preeminence of
the institution of marriage.

For me the film managed to do justice to both sub themes reasonably
well. One one hand when Sunil Dutt was singing "Aap aaye to khayale.."
I felt his pain, but in the end MS's decision also seemed inevitable.

regards,

Sunil

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