KISHORE KUMAR,AMIT KUMAR and KUMAR SANU
Ravi Krishna
Of late I am noticing that bashing of Kumar Sanu has reached an alltime high.
Upon further investigation I see some pattern:-
1. Almost all of the Kumar Sanu bashers are die hard KK fans.
2. Almost all of the KS bashers think Udit Narayan is better than KS.
3. Almost all of the KS bashers want Amit Kumar to come back.
KS is not KK but certainly not as bad as made out to be. I liked KS in
some of the songs notably the following:-
a. Sochenga tumhe pyaar .... Deewana
b. Ek haseen nighan sa .... Maya Memsab
c. Kuch no kaho ... 1942 ALS.
d. Aai kash ke .. Kabhi Haan Kabhi Naa
plus some more songs.
Rajesh Roshan said in some interview that when he heard KS singing in some
party one of his song he could hardly believe that it is not KK. THat song
was "oh yara tu jaan se .." from Kaash. RR immediately gave him a
opportunity.
RDB was so happy with KS during the recording of 1942ALS that he started
hugging KS and started swearing in bengali. Those who knew RDB well say that
RDB does that only when he is EXTREMLY happy and pleased with the song.
Now coming to Udit Narayan and Amit Kumar. UN is a OK singer but AK sucks big
time. He is an absoulte disgrace to his father. Listen to the song "dewaana
dil dewaana" from Kabhi Haan Kabhi Naa. UN sang that song much better than
AK.
AK has not gone into self imposed retirement , he has been buldozed out of the
film industry by KS. UN is singing in film since 1979 , yet KS blew him
away. In fact the kind of success KS acheived KK himself didn't do it better.
All music directors are not fools to ignore UN , AK and give KS a chance
particularly MD of the calibre of Hridynath Mangeshkar. Nobody is stopping UN
and AK in overtaking KS , let them try.
When KK overtook Rafi in 70's , KK fans use it as a point to prove
that KK was better than Rafi. Now why the same logic is not used in case of
KS who has similarly blown away UN and AK in the 90's. Double standards.
Also did you notice that the film industry got a good clone of KK in the form
of KS , a few years after KK's death , but could not get any clone of Rafi
even after 15 years of his death. Shabir Kumar , Mohd. Aziz just could not
create the Rafi magic wheras KS did it quite easily . There lies the
difference between Rafi and KK. You can not get a clone of a great singer
like Rafi whereas it is relatively easy to get a clone of not-so-great singer
like KK.
Flames welcome.
--
S. Ravi Krishna
Neeraj Deshmukh - The Falcon
In defense of Kumar Sanu
rkri...@informix.com (Ravi Krishna) writes:
> 1. Almost all of the Kumar Sanu bashers are die hard KK fans.
Just the same as a majority of Shabbir Kumar / Mohd Aziz
bashers are certified RAFIans.
> 2. Almost all of the KS bashers think Udit Narayan is better than
> KS.
> 3. Almost all of the KS bashers want Amit Kumar to come back.
Because both Udit and Amit are perceived as better singers
than Sanu by them.
While I will agree with you in saying that
> KS is not KK but certainly not as bad as made out to be.
I will certainly not go as far as saying
> Also did you notice that the film industry got a good clone of KK in
> the form of KS , a few years after KK's death , but could not get
> any clone of Rafi even after 15 years of his death. Shabir Kumar ,
> Mohd. Aziz just could not create the Rafi magic wheras KS did it
> quite easily . There lies the difference between Rafi and KK. You
> can not get a clone of a great singer like Rafi whereas it is
> relatively easy to get a clone of not-so-great singer like KK.
First of all, who says that Sanu is a good clone of Kishore?
As far as my reading on RMIM goes people lament that he *tries to
clone* Kishore. AFAIK no one has said that he succeeds.
Secondly, personally I think Shabbir and Aziz sound a lot more
like Rafi than Sanu ever did like Kishore. The frequent confusions on
RMIM regarding whether a song is sung by either of these or Anwar or
Rafi should be testimony to a more general agreement on this. I have
to date not seen a KK song confused as a KS song or vice versa.
I can think of another scenario --- the general public wants
to listen to voices that sound like Kishore's to whatever extent, but
don't really care for the Rafi-like voice any more. I am not saying
that this is what I believe, it is merely another possible
interpretation of the same observation.
In both cases, I am not reflecting on the greatness ---
relative or absolute --- of either KK or Rafi. I'll leave that to the
KKKlanners and the RAFIans, respectively.
Thirdly, exactly what is your agenda? Are you trying to defend
Sanu here? Or are you only using that as a pretext to claim that Rafi
is better than KK?
> Now coming to Udit Narayan and Amit Kumar. UN is a OK singer but AK
> sucks big time. He is an absoulte disgrace to his father. Listen
> to the song "dewaana dil dewaana" from Kabhi Haan Kabhi Naa. UN
> sang that song much better than AK.
"AK sucks big time" is only your opinion, not agreed upon by
most of us. IMHO both UN and AK did an equally good job in that song.
And what does Kishore have to do anything with Amit being
whatever kind of a singer? Why should he be a disgrace to Kishore?
AFAIK Kishore was always proud of his son and his singing. Also please
don't forget that Amit has been singing for close to 20 years, and for
close to a decade he was the voice of the young college-going hero. If
you want to realistically estimate his prowess as a singer you should
look at songs starting even earlier than "baDe achchhe lagate hai"
from 'Balika Bodhu', think about full movie soundtracks like 'Love
Story', 'Teri Kasam' etc., even include later songs like "soone
shaam-savere" from 'Khel' and then comment. And please realize that
he has not copied his more illustrious father's voice or singing at
any stage.
Ciao,
ND
\____Neeraj Deshmukh__________...@isip.msstate.edu____/
Office: ISIP, MSU, 434 Simrall, Hardy Road, MS State MS 39762
Ph: (601) 325-8335 Fax: (601) 325-3149
Home: 100 Logan Drive #D, Starkville MS 39759 Ph: (601) 323-2819
\_http://www.isip.msstate.edu/____Disc Space - The Final Frontier..._/
Sanjay Joshi
On 28 Aug 1996, Ravi Krishna wrote:
>Of late I am noticing that bashing of Kumar Sanu has reached an alltime high.
>Upon further investigation I see some pattern:-
>
>1. Almost all of the Kumar Sanu bashers are die hard KK fans.
So what?? It is amazing that KS with his 'chewed up' singing thinks that
he is a patch on KK.
>2. Almost all of the KS bashers think Udit Narayan is better than KS.
You need to remove the word "Almost".
>3. Almost all of the KS bashers want Amit Kumar to come back.
You are 100% right there.
>
>KS is not KK but certainly not as bad as made out to be. I liked KS in
>some of the songs notably the following:-
>
>a. Sochenga tumhe pyaar .... Deewana
>b. Ek haseen nighan sa .... Maya Memsab
>c. Kuch no kaho ... 1942 ALS.
>d. Aai kash ke .. Kabhi Haan Kabhi Naa
>plus some more songs.
Some of his songs are good, but he spoils the rest of them by being too
nasal. He was OK during the "aashiqui" phase, but now his singing stinks.
>
>Rajesh Roshan said in some interview that when he heard KS singing in some
>party one of his song he could hardly believe that it is not KK. THat song
>was "oh yara tu jaan se .." from Kaash. RR immediately gave him a
>opportunity.
Poor dude... didnt know what he was getting to...
>
>RDB was so happy with KS during the recording of 1942ALS that he started
>hugging KS and started swearing in bengali. Those who knew RDB well say that
>RDB does that only when he is EXTREMLY happy and pleased with the song.
>
>Now coming to Udit Narayan and Amit Kumar. UN is a OK singer but AK sucks big
>time. He is an absoulte disgrace to his father. Listen to the song "dewaana
>dil dewaana" from Kabhi Haan Kabhi Naa. UN sang that song much better than
>AK.
You need to listen to it again. No one can sing with the same zest and
gusto as Amit Kumar. Disgrace?? You are going too far pal. Imagine KS in
that song whining away in what is supposed to be a fun song.
>
>AK has not gone into self imposed retirement , he has been buldozed out of the
>film industry by KS. UN is singing in film since 1979 , yet KS blew him
>away. In fact the kind of success KS acheived KK himself didn't do it better.
Amit Kumar has already had his share of success. And he doesnt need to
depend on KS for anything.
>
>All music directors are not fools to ignore UN , AK and give KS a chance
>particularly MD of the calibre of Hridynath Mangeshkar. Nobody is stopping UN
>and AK in overtaking KS , let them try.
AK has just stopped singing on his own accord. Nothing else to prove :-)
While KS tries and tries....
>
>When KK overtook Rafi in 70's , KK fans use it as a point to prove
>that KK was better than Rafi. Now why the same logic is not used in case of
>KS who has similarly blown away UN and AK in the 90's. Double standards.
>
>
>Also did you notice that the film industry got a good clone of KK in the form
>of KS , a few years after KK's death , but could not get any clone of Rafi
>even after 15 years of his death. Shabir Kumar , Mohd. Aziz just could not
>create the Rafi magic wheras KS did it quite easily . There lies the
>difference between Rafi and KK. You can not get a clone of a great singer
>like Rafi whereas it is relatively easy to get a clone of not-so-great singer
>like KK.
>
>Flames welcome.
>
>--
>S. Ravi Krishna
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
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Graduate Student College Station
Dept. of Electrical Engineering TX 77840
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
Pradeep Dubey
>> Also did you notice that the film industry got a good clone of KK in the form
>> of KS , a few years after KK's death , but could not get any clone of Rafi
>> even after 15 years of his death. Shabir Kumar , Mohd. Aziz just could not
>> create the Rafi magic wheras KS did it quite easily . There lies the
>> difference between Rafi and KK. You can not get a clone of a great singer
>> like Rafi whereas it is relatively easy to get a clone of not-so-great singer
>> like KK.
>> Flames welcome.
>>
>> --
>> S. Ravi Krishna
Ravi:
Your 'flame hunger' seems to be turning into 'flame addiction'.
So I think it's better to let your flame-hunger flame for a while :-)
Pradeep
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
No, he's not a SUPERB singer, but not as bad as everyone seems to be
saying.
Also, KK was a great singer. However, I agree with the statement that
KS is a better KK clone than the other guys are for Rafi...whether
that's because of Rafi's greatness is a matter of opinion (I personally
don't think its eassy to do a GOOD job of emulating KK, but easier than
doing Rafi..again, MHO...)
SAnjeev
Sender:
Followup-To:
Distribution:
Organization: Princeton University
Keywords:
Pradeep Dubey
Neeraj Deshmukh wrote:
>> Secondly, personally I think Shabbir and Aziz sound a lot more
>> like Rafi than Sanu ever did like Kishore. The frequent confusions on
>> RMIM regarding whether a song is sung by either of these or Anwar or
>> Rafi should be testimony to a more general agreement on this. I have
>> to date not seen a KK song confused as a KS song or vice versa.
How can we forget at least 10 per year posts which confuse between
Rafi and Mahendra Kapoor?
Pradeep
Rizwan M. Syed
rkri...@informix.com (Ravi Krishna) writes:
>1. Almost all of the Kumar Sanu bashers are die hard KK fans.
Au Contraire.. I like Rafi much more than Kishore Kumar as a singer, and
yet despise Kumar Sanu as a singer as much as any normal human being
would. :)
>2. Almost all of the KS bashers think Udit Narayan is better than KS.
Aqalmund ko toe ishaara bohut hota he, you think there might be a reason
WHY everyone seems to think that?
>3. Almost all of the KS bashers want Amit Kumar to come back.
umm... not really.. I think some of his stuff was pretty good.. but I
think his prime didn't last too long.. Regardless, now he definitely is
not in his prime, so no need for him to come back.. He IS a much
better singer, IMUQO, than Kumar Sanu though..
>a. Sochenga tumhe pyaar .... Deewana
>b. Ek haseen nighan sa .... Maya Memsab
>c. Kuch no kaho ... 1942 ALS.
>d. Aai kash ke .. Kabhi Haan Kabhi Naa
>plus some more songs.
The only one I've heard is the first one, and I didn't particularly care
for it. But despair not, there ARE a lot of Kumar Sanu songs I really
like..
Barhi Mushkil hay, Khoya mera dil hay Anjaam
Loveria hoowaa Raju Ban gaya GM.
Ek Larhki ko dekha toe Aysa lagaa.. 1942..
Dheere dheere say meri zindagi mei.n Aashiquie
and a few more..
Laykin maslaa yeah hay ke is mei.n Kumar Sanu ka koi kamaal nahee hay.. All
have great lyrics and/or great music, and/or great situation in the movie..
>RDB was so happy with KS during the recording of 1942ALS that he started
>hugging KS and started swearing in bengali. Those who knew RDB well say that
>RDB does that only when he is EXTREMLY happy and pleased with the song.
That probably has a lot to do with expectations.. If he didn't expect it to
be any good, and Kumar Sanu's performance in that song turned out to be
average, of course the loRD would be ecstatic.. :)
>All music directors are not fools to ignore UN , AK and give KS a chance
>particularly MD of the calibre of Hridynath Mangeshkar. Nobody is stopping UN
>and AK in overtaking KS , let them try.
>When KK overtook Rafi in 70's , KK fans use it as a point to prove
>that KK was better than Rafi. Now why the same logic is not used in case of
>KS who has similarly blown away UN and AK in the 90's. Double standards.
Good point there.. there is a difference between being good and being
popular. The parallels ARE there to be seen by all KKKlaners.. I wish
to say the following without taking sides, or being branded a Rafian.. but
Ravi has brought up a very good point. What Kumar Sanu has done to the
Music industry is no different than what Kishore did to the competition
in his day. Of course the standards, as well as the performance, has come
down by a huge margin since then, but its still essentialy the same thing.
Kishore Kumar was not as good a singer as Rafi, but he was more popular..
THAT is exactly what Kumar Sanu has also accomplished. I think this fact
is just about as bogglesome (I should copyright this word.. *chuckle*) to
every non KumarSanu fan nowadays, as it was to every non-Kishore fan back
when he overtook Rafi. Anyway, this by no means, is supposed to put Kishore
in the same class (singing-wise) as Kumar Sanu, though..
>Also did you notice that the film industry got a good clone of KK in the form
>of KS , a few years after KK's death , but could not get any clone of Rafi
>even after 15 years of his death. Shabir Kumar , Mohd. Aziz just could not
>create the Rafi magic wheras KS did it quite easily . There lies the
>difference between Rafi and KK. You can not get a clone of a great singer
>like Rafi whereas it is relatively easy to get a clone of not-so-great singer
>like KK.
Well I'd like to disagree with this.. I think we need to change this term
from xxxx-clone, to xxxx-imitator. Because frankly, any remote-fan of
either one of those singers would be able to tell the original from the
counterfeit. Your argument is correct here, but your reasoning is flawed.
>Flames welcome.
You must've had a great Labor-day Bar-B-cue there.. :)
Rizwan
Rizwan M. Syed
Neeraj Deshmukh - The Falcon <desh...@isip01.isip.msstate.edu> writes:
> First of all, who says that Sanu is a good clone of Kishore?
>As far as my reading on RMIM goes people lament that he *tries to
>clone* Kishore. AFAIK no one has said that he succeeds.
Agreed to this in my previous post already..
> Secondly, personally I think Shabbir and Aziz sound a lot more
>like Rafi than Sanu ever did like Kishore.
Ok.. same thing.. to you, being a KK fan, it would seem that way, same
way, to any Rafi fan, KS would sound 'a lot more like' Kishore, than
Shabbir/Aziz would, like Rafi. The problem lies in the amount of exposure
one has to the music of the original singer. Obviously if I listen to
KK songs 80% of the time, I'm gonna 'KNOW' his voice more than I would
any other singer. Likewise with Rafi... So the imitator of the one I don't
'KNOW' too well would sound more like the original then the imitator of
the one I do 'KNOW'.. Goes back to what I said in the earlier post.. They
are all just 'imitators', could never be anywhere close to the real thing..
Be it Rafi, or Kishore, or Mukesh.. Well.. that last one is debatable.. :)
>The frequent confusions on
>RMIM regarding whether a song is sung by either of these or Anwar or
>Rafi should be testimony to a more general agreement on this. I have
>to date not seen a KK song confused as a KS song or vice versa.
Hey wait.. didn't Kumar Sanu sing 'Roop tera Mustaanaa'?? *grin*
Ok, for the dimwits.. that WAS a joke.. but you get the point? The
confusions occur over the songs of Mahendra, Aziz, Shabbir, and Anwar
with Rafi's is because all of them sang at the same time as Rafi..
When did Kumar Sanu start? Aashiquie? hm.. '90? '91?? When did Kishore
die??
Laters..
Rizwan
madhu sudan
While we are at it :)
Anyone knows anything about Sonu Nigam (is the spelling correct ?).
I understand that he has a contract with Gulshan Kumar ('Jai Mata Di')
and sings for him. Has he given playback in lots of movies ? Only one where
I have heard him is "Mukhse naaraz ho to ho jaao, khud se tum intni
khafa khafa na raho" from 'Papa Kehtey hain'. And he sounds pretty good
in that song (sung in Rafi style :-) (do I see raised eyebrows ? :-)
No I dont intend to start comparing the two ...simply because I havent
heard him enough. I did hear him in a concert with Asha Bhosle recently
and he definitely has a very good voice...
Any other info about him ? Coming songs ? Movies ? Other opinions ?
-Madhu
Kalyan Kolachala
In article <rizwan.8...@Neptune.Sparco.Com>, riz...@Neptune.Sparco.Com says...
>
>rkri...@informix.com (Ravi Krishna) writes:
> for it. But despair not, there ARE a lot of Kumar Sanu songs I really
> like..
> Barhi Mushkil hay, Khoya mera dil hay Anjaam
This one is by Abhijit, a singer who seems to have been left out in the
KS vs UN vs AK war.
On a related note, I don't think KS imitates KK. He started that way
in Aashiqui etc but was smart enough to develop his own style. The
impression of his being a KK clone is IMO because of his earlier songs
and the cover versions of KK songs he did. Looking back it can be
seen that almost all the singers who tried to or were made to imitate
other singers weren't very sucessful. e.g Suman Kalyanpur, a great
singer, was moulded into a pale imitation of Lata and she faded away.
To a lesser extent this is also the case with Mahendra Kapoor. Then
there are all those clones like Shabbir, Mohd Aziz, Nitin Mukesh who
all failed because they couldn't live up to the lofty standards they
set out to copy.
The smart thing seems to be to start off in somebody else's style so as
to get noticed and overcome the inertia for a new voice/style. e.g
Mukesh, KK, Rafi etc started singing in Saigal style but soon developed
their own style and were very successful. KS (I'm not going into his
merits/demerits or comparing him with the legends) did something similar.
He started off in KK style to get the initial success and after the
liftoff developed his own style and continued being successful.
As for his singing talents I leave it to the others to fight it out :)
Cheers,
Kalyan
Vijay Sundararajan
In article <50i5aa$n...@lex.zippo.com>,
Good clean comments, I think too much is made out of KS being nasal,
if you really think he is too nasal and hence should be disliked
then what about Mukesh or Shamshad Begum,
While Shamshad Begum had her range to fall back on, what did Mukesh have
? His poularity I guess and maybe his niche for sad songs, but so is
the case with KS, I can assert with conviction that kS did as good a job
as KK would have in the rendition of "Sambhala hai maine bahut apne dil
ko....", so KS haters acknowledge his achievements however little that
maybe, also remember that KS is likely to sing a lot more songs.
I propose a litmus test get a person in the age-group 8-15 yrs and ask
them who the greatest singer is => I am reasonably sure the answer
would be KS/KK with KK being favoured by the older group.
Don't dislike some singer just because he/she should be disliked.
BTW I think the singer that doesn't qualify the above statement
is Alka <Screeching> Yagnik.
-Vijay
Vallury Prabhakar
In article <madhu.8...@mik.uky.edu>,
madhu sudan <ma...@mik.uky.edu> wrote:
>While we are at it :)
>
>Anyone knows anything about Sonu Nigam (is the spelling correct ?).
>I understand that he has a contract with Gulshan Kumar ('Jai Mata Di')
>and sings for him. Has he given playback in lots of movies ? Only one where
>I have heard him is "Mukhse naaraz ho to ho jaao, khud se tum intni
>khafa khafa na raho" from 'Papa Kehtey hain'. And he sounds pretty good
>in that song (sung in Rafi style :-) (do I see raised eyebrows ? :-)
>No I dont intend to start comparing the two ...simply because I havent
>heard him enough. I did hear him in a concert with Asha Bhosle recently
>and he definitely has a very good voice...
>
"Tribute to Maestros" is a CD/tape put out by T-series featuring
Anuradha Paudwal and Sonu Nigam. All Rafi/Lata duets redone very
faithfully. Crisp mastering (possibly ADD), magnificient orchestration
and vocals to knock your socks/rocks off. What Rafi coulda', shoulda'
been.
-- VP
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
= Vallury Prabhakar Office: [810] 771-2447 =
= val...@sunrise.stanford.edu Home: [810] 947-2288 =
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Sanjeev Ramabhadran
>and vocals to knock your socks/rocks off. What Rafi coulda', shoulda'
>been.
>
You never give up, do you? Sonu's good, but I don't know where this is
coming from...are you a KKKlaner?
Sanjeev
P.S. Had Rafi been what Sonu is, I too would have been a KKKlaner...