Two great songs
Cricketislife!
It is such a beautiful number that it needs someone with classical
music background and knowledge to explain it and so here click this
one for an analysis.
http://www.geocities.com/rjaymidi/aedho.html
The mp3 stuff in there wont work, but you can read the detailed text.
You can listen the song at
http://www.tfmpage.com/cgi-bin/stream.pl?url=http://www.dhool.com/sotd/edho.rm
This has to be one of Raja' best songs ever.
Along with that, do listen to this one, Uravenum Puthiya Vaanil from
Nenjaththai killadhe
http://www.tfmpage.com/cgi-bin/stream.pl?url=http://www.dhool.com/sotd/uravenum.rm
SPB has done a brilliant job, In Edho mogam (the first song, the male
voice was not great, here a young SPB and SJanaki elevate this song
into greatness)
This is one of my fav song. This song seems eternally Fresh, and
absoultely fascinating song. Another all time great song of Raja and I
guess Indian film music.
Narayanan
"Cricketislife!" <cricke...@rediffmail.com> wrote in message
news:6c7bkvgerivjn8tof...@4ax.com...
My job to post some great songs by MSV.
After some effort I found this song from Madurayi meeta
Sundrapandian in a defunct website.
http://madrasnet.com/Audio/Old_Songs/
On a side note:-
<begin rant>
Everytime I hit upon a 70s hit like this I can't help feel that
IRaja fans have successfully propagated a myth that TFM of
70s was bad and IR saved it. Without doubt IR brought
fresh air and possibly only MD who deserves the tag genius.
That doesn't mean people they have to run down MSV of
70s.
<end rant>
Some more great song of 70s by MSV
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/music/l/WW00030D
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/music/l/WW000F1S
Aaramba Kaalam
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/music/l/WW000F3K
Annan Oru Koil sung by Suseela. Kannadasan's lyric
is terrific. Though very simple conveys the emotion
so well. That useless movie didn't deserve such songs
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/music/l/WW00001D
There are _many_ more MSV songs like the above in 70s
ensoy!
N[Who likes both MSV and IR about as much]
Satish
Vishwanathan-Ramamoorthy stand far above IR in terms of "genius"
compositions.
KVM was a master at crafting brilliant compositions with an essence of
classicism. The only one whom I can think of comparing him with is God
Anilda - and tho I would not put KVM as high as Anilda, he is close
enough !!
VR were the Salil of TFM. Their compositions were sheer genius. I
freely accept that some of their compositions were beyond anything KVM
has done (the "Palum pazhamum" songs for example). They were rather
inconsistent in their output - but they were undisputable geniuses.
Once the two broke up, neither of the duo's individual music efforts
was comparable to their output as a duo. MSV was generally tolerable,
TKR bad.
Hence the advent of IR was certainly most welcome. He brought in some
qualuity when it certainly was on its way down. But - qualitatively, I
would bot put him anywhere near KVM and VR.
Cheers,
Satish
Narayanan
"Satish" <satis...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5ae28349.03082...@posting.google.com...
> Without meaning to offend, let me put down that both K.V.Mahadevan and
> Vishwanathan-Ramamoorthy stand far above IR in terms of "genius"
> compositions.
>
> KVM was a master at crafting brilliant compositions with an essence of
> classicism. The only one whom I can think of comparing him with is God
> Anilda - and tho I would not put KVM as high as Anilda, he is close
> enough !!
I don't know how you compare KVM with Anil and
MSV/TKR with Salil. Fundamental difference between great
hindi composers and Tam ones is that Hindi composers hardly
were prolific. Basically, they were catering different industries.
>
> VR were the Salil of TFM. Their compositions were sheer genius. I
> freely accept that some of their compositions were beyond anything KVM
> has done (the "Palum pazhamum" songs for example). They were rather
> inconsistent in their output - but they were undisputable geniuses.
> Once the two broke up, neither of the duo's individual music efforts
> was comparable to their output as a duo.
This is just b.s. IMO MSV was just as good. Sure orchestration
suffered. But, more due to aging and amount of work he had
already done. Unless you can produce another MD who can
even remotely manage MSV's output after scoring 500+ already
it is hard to even compare. Consider this:- Salil was recycling
Bengali songs in Tamil, Malayalam, and Hindi. MSV didn't
have the luxury.
Check here
http://www.salilda.com/filmsongs/hindfilms.shtml
Click on movies like aanand, annadaata, anokha daan etc. you
will find that the songs have been listed in bengali/malayalam
already.
Take a look at Azhiyatha kolangal.
http://www.salilda.com/filmsongs/other/tamil/azhiyatha.html
Songs have been recycled from bengali/malyalam/hindi.
> MSV was generally tolerable,
> TKR bad.
>
> Hence the advent of IR was certainly most welcome. He brought in some
> qualuity when it certainly was on its way down. But - qualitatively, I
> would bot put him anywhere near KVM and VR.
Don't understand.
N-
Satish
> MSV/TKR with Salil. Fundamental difference between great
> hindi composers and Tam ones is that Hindi composers hardly
> were prolific. Basically, they were catering different industries.
I am not comparing their output or their quantity.
Simply their musical signatures - the essence of their music.
> This is just b.s. IMO MSV was just as good. Sure orchestration
> suffered. But, more due to aging and amount of work he had
> already done. Unless you can produce another MD who can
> even remotely manage MSV's output after scoring 500+ already
> it is hard to even compare. Consider this:- Salil was recycling
> Bengali songs in Tamil, Malayalam, and Hindi. MSV didn't
What does age have to do with orchestration ? He doesnt sit there
playing the instruments does he ? LOL !!!
And what does output have to do with this ? First you say that he gave
the same quality - and then you go on trying to defend his
deterioation !!
And oh yes - VR's orchestraction was definitely one of the highlights
of their music. One of our pals has posted an old VR-Susila gem :
http://homepage.mac.com/devkumar
Just listen to the amazing sync of composition with orchestration with
rendition. This was the genius of VR.
Again IMVHO, MSV's compositions were nowhere near VR's compositions.
Just my opinion !!
BTW, I dont know why you have to bring Salil into all this. As I said,
I just compared their musical signatures. I am well and truly aware
Salil recycled many of his tunes - and have enjoyed them thoroughly in
all versions.
Cheers,
Satish
Narayanan
> > MSV/TKR with Salil. Fundamental difference between great
> > hindi composers and Tam ones is that Hindi composers hardly
> > were prolific. Basically, they were catering different industries.
>
> I am not comparing their output or their quantity.
> Simply their musical signatures - the essence of their music.
>
>
> > This is just b.s. IMO MSV was just as good. Sure orchestration
> > suffered. But, more due to aging and amount of work he had
> > already done. Unless you can produce another MD who can
> > even remotely manage MSV's output after scoring 500+ already
> > it is hard to even compare. Consider this:- Salil was recycling
> > Bengali songs in Tamil, Malayalam, and Hindi. MSV didn't
>
>
> What does age have to do with orchestration ? He doesnt sit there
> playing the instruments does he ? LOL !!!
Sure he doesn't. But after an age overall quality suffered. As far
as MSV is concerned orchestration wasn't that good in the 70s.
Still his ability to produce good tunes in that era was quite good.
Good orchestration is also requires creativity. You will get
guys to play those instruments. Some months back there was
a discussion on how Shankar Jaikishen indulged in loud chorus
violin etc and in general lousy orchestration in from mid 60s.
Some what of a similar pattern could be observed in MSV's
case(though to a lesser degree). But then he had composed
around 1000 movies and it was in his later days things suffered.
>
> And what does output have to do with this ?
You basically cannot compare guys who produce 50-60
movies and with someone who does well for much much longer
period. Rahman was terrific for 25 odd movies. After that we
know.
> First you say that he gave
> the same quality - and then you go on trying to defend his
> deterioation !!
No I am not. It is your ability to comprehend. If you insist on
debating in this tone, I will be more than willing to do it.
>
> And oh yes - VR's orchestraction was definitely one of the highlights
> of their music. One of our pals has posted an old VR-Susila gem :
Sure. VR era orechestration was top class. I did mention after
500 movies or so. By that time VR had broken up.
>
> http://homepage.mac.com/devkumar
>
> Just listen to the amazing sync of composition with orchestration with
> rendition. This was the genius of VR.
>
> Again IMVHO, MSV's compositions were nowhere near VR's compositions.
> Just my opinion !!
Sure your opinion. Will make a request to inculde that in the
next edition of Bible.
>
> BTW, I dont know why you have to bring Salil into all this.
You brought in Salil in the debate. But, you expect I replying your
post must not make a point. Or probably you are missing my
point.
> As I said,
> I just compared their musical signatures.
You did? Just now?
"VR were the Salil of TFM. Their compositions were sheer genius. "
I don't see any mention of signature there.
> I am well and truly aware
> Salil recycled many of his tunes - and have enjoyed them thoroughly in
> all versions.
One version will do for lesser mortals like me. Occasional recycles
are OK with me. I don't see exceessive recycling as a strength.
That is just me though.
N-
Ket...@att.net
says...
>> I am well and truly aware
>> Salil recycled many of his tunes - and have enjoyed them thoroughly in
>> all versions.
>
>One version will do for lesser mortals like me. Occasional recycles
>are OK with me. I don't see exceessive recycling as a strength.
>That is just me though.
Then I will be inclined to agree with you that you are indeed a lesser mortal.
Ketan
>N-
>
>
Narayanan
<Ket...@att.net> wrote in message news:bi972...@drn.newsguy.com...
Which is better than being an asshole like you.
N-
Cricketislife!
>Hence the advent of IR was certainly most welcome. He brought in some
>qualuity when it certainly was on its way down.
Sathish, are u saying IR is not a great MD and he just filled a
lacuna? Of course its your opinion and you can only say what u
really think, but I would like to know if thats what you r implying.
CiL
Imo Iraja is a Great MD.
Narayanan
CIL, I located some gems of IR recently in coolgoose.
You may not find them in musicindiaonline etc
1) Solai Kuyile
http://web.music.coolgoose.com/go/song?id=62443
2) Mella Mella
http://web.music.coolgoose.com/go/song?id=67749
3) Innarul tharum
http://web.music.coolgoose.com/go/song?id=70919
4)Adhisaya Nadamidum
http://web.music.coolgoose.com/go/song?id=73921
5)Nyan Nyan Padanum
http://www.coolgoose.com/go/song?id=66409
This song has a very interesting scale (assent/descent)
6)Chinna Pura onru
http://www.coolgoose.com/go/song?id=47028
7)Jal Jal salangai oli
http://www.coolgoose.com/go/song?id=60350
N-
Cricketislife!
<tiger_va...@yahoo.com.spamnot> wrote:
>CIL, I located some gems of IR recently in coolgoose.
>You may not find them in musicindiaonline etc
<snip>
Thanks a lot. and here listen to this song from the movie
'Inspector', -1953 (not sure who the MD is)
http://www.tfmpage.com/cgi-bin/stream.pl?url=http://www.dhool.com/sotd/varuvaai.rm
'Varuvaai Manamohana' sung by VN Sundaram and MLV , a dialogue type
song where VNsundaram acts as the Director telling the actress
(voice of MLV, here) to emote well for this song.. Quite interesting,
funny and enjoyable.
and rare song
http://www.tfmpage.com/cgi-bin/stream.pl?url=http://www.dhool.com/sotd/thirumazhi.rm
Randor Guy has written a detailed article on M.M.Dhandapani Desikar
(whose song from 'Thirumazhi Alwar' is in the above link) here
http://www.sangeetham.com/ddesikar.htm
Narayanan
Thanks for both the songs. That must be Thirumazhisai azhwar
the authour of Naanmughan Thiru-andaadi.
> http://www.sangeetham.com/ddesikar.htm
MMDD was a successful musician of yester years. Nandanar
was his famous musical based on Gopalakrishna Bharati's
Nandan Charitham which he wrote to bring out the greatness
of Shivite saint Nandanar and fight untouchability.
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/music/l/WW000D0N
Papanasam Sivan and Kothamangalam Subbu were lyricists
for the movie. They did retain some amount of original songs
by Gopalakrishna Bharathi
N-
Satish
> lacuna? Of course its your opinion and you can only say what u
> really think, but I would like to know if thats what you r implying.
Aw come on !! I know that you can see that is not what I intended to
mean.
IMO, Illayaraja was certainly a great MD - and my meaning was that he
came in at a very opppurtune time for TFM when the general quality was
lowering IMO and he managed to raise the quality up. Thats all !
Cheers,
Satish
Ashok
>
>Sure he doesn't. But after an age overall quality suffered. As far
>as MSV is concerned orchestration wasn't that good in the 70s.
>Still his ability to produce good tunes in that era was quite good.
>Good orchestration is also requires creativity. You will get
>guys to play those instruments. Some months back there was
>a discussion on how Shankar Jaikishen indulged in loud chorus
>violin etc and in general lousy orchestration in from mid 60s.
>Some what of a similar pattern could be observed in MSV's
>case(though to a lesser degree). But then he had composed
>around 1000 movies and it was in his later days things suffered.
>N-
The best way to lose your credibility rating on RMIM is to
make silly numerical claims--ones that are wrong by order of
magnitude. MSV (jointly and solo) has composed music for
nearly 1000 films? I'll bet that you are wrong by a factor
of 3, at least. 1000 songs would be nearer.
Consider this: Ilaiyaraja, with the insane monopoly he
enjoyed in the 1980s, is still quite a bit short of the
1000-movie mark.
Ashok
Narayanan
"Ashok" <adhar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:biati6$75pnn$1...@ID-74854.news.uni-berlin.de...
> In article <601badc28483b189...@news.teranews.com>,
tiger_va...@yahoo.com.spamnot says...
> >
>
> >Sure he doesn't. But after an age overall quality suffered. As far
> >as MSV is concerned orchestration wasn't that good in the 70s.
> >Still his ability to produce good tunes in that era was quite good.
> >Good orchestration is also requires creativity. You will get
> >guys to play those instruments. Some months back there was
> >a discussion on how Shankar Jaikishen indulged in loud chorus
> >violin etc and in general lousy orchestration in from mid 60s.
> >Some what of a similar pattern could be observed in MSV's
> >case(though to a lesser degree). But then he had composed
> >around 1000 movies and it was in his later days things suffered.
>
> >N-
>
>
>
> The best way to lose your credibility rating on RMIM is to
> make silly numerical claims--ones that are wrong by order of
> magnitude.
Other way is to claim when you have no clue about reality(which
you are doing).
> MSV (jointly and solo) has composed music for
> nearly 1000 films?
MSV started his career in 1958 or so. Whole of 60s and a good
portion of 70s were done by him.
> I'll bet that you are wrong by a factor
> of 3, at least. 1000 songs would be nearer.
If I were as clueless as you about something, I will keep my
mouth shut.
>
> Consider this: Ilaiyaraja, with the insane monopoly he
> enjoyed in the 1980s, is still quite a bit short of the
> 1000-movie mark.
Do you even realize MSV had a much longer stint and
monopolized little more than Raja did?
http://www.themusicmagazine.com/kannathil.html
Read the para dealing with MSV.
http://www.msviswanathan.com/
These websites may well be over-estimating the numbers.
But I am certain he did more than IR.
N-
rkusenet
"Satish" <satis...@hotmail.com> wrote
> IMO, Illayaraja was certainly a great MD - and my meaning was that he
> came in at a very opppurtune time for TFM when the general quality was
> lowering IMO and he managed to raise the quality up. Thats all !
Haven't I heard this argument before. Hmm.. let us start.
1. RDB was a great composer and he came at a time when old timers were just
being naturally phased out. Shankar Jaikishan became a dabba by early
1970s. SDB was perpetually at death bed. Naushad went into self imposed
retirement (some say industry imposed retirement). Salil da was busy
updating his Object oriented skills where classes can be recycled
all the time. OPN was done. Ripe time for RDB to come and rule the industry.
2. ARR came at right time. By 1992 Iraja was dabba and people were sick
of his grammar.
Is there an end to such argument. Isn't it natural for every composer to
start decaying after some time and then the next man takes over.
Both Raja and MSV were great composers. MSV was great in tunes and Iraja
was superior in orchestra. At the end both composed highly enjoyable songs.
rk-
rkusenet
> The best way to lose your credibility rating on RMIM is to
> make silly numerical claims--ones that are wrong by order of
> magnitude. MSV (jointly and solo) has composed music for
> nearly 1000 films? I'll bet that you are wrong by a factor
> of 3, at least. 1000 songs would be nearer.
>
> Consider this: Ilaiyaraja, with the insane monopoly he
> enjoyed in the 1980s, is still quite a bit short of the
> 1000-movie mark.
Ashok,
This MSV's 1000 film claim gained momemtum when SPB claimed
it in some program. A simple math says it is impossible.
Assuming MSV lasted 20 years from 1950s to 1970s, it would mean
an avg of 50 films per year to achieve that. I am certain it
if way off the mark. First of all there wasn't enuf films
produced in a year in those days. Secondly, Raja's 800 odd
films is well recorded and can be produced in any web site.
His 50+ films in 1985 and 1986 can be checked at few sites.
How come there is not a single authentic source which lists
out MSV's 1000 films, or for a few yrs when he composed at
least 50 films.
BTW here is another composer who has composed > 1000 films.
Telegu composer Chakravarthy. According to composer M M kreem
a.k.a Maradagamani a.k.a Keeravanai:-
http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanherald/feb09/ent5.asp
Arun Iyengar
news:8b6328ad9ee7b9f6...@news.teranews.com...
> > MSV (jointly and solo) has composed music for
> > nearly 1000 films?
>
> MSV started his career in 1958 or so. Whole of 60s and a good
> portion of 70s were done by him.
>
> > I'll bet that you are wrong by a factor
> > of 3, at least. 1000 songs would be nearer.
>
> If I were as clueless as you about something, I will keep my
> mouth shut.
OK then, walk the talk. Though I know New York Raja well (he lives in
Toronto BTW), I am with RK and Ashok here. Show me the proof! It's easy to
throw around big numbers to inflate somebody into a larger than life image.
Ilayaraja's films are well documented. www.raaja.com is a good source though
you should ignore their claim of 20,000 concerts in 8 years. RMIM has time
and again discussed how fallacious some of these numbers are. So if you have
any proof about MSV composing music for over 1000 films other than some
random claim on some website, here's your chance...
A
--
(Remove 999 to reply)
rkusenet
"Arun Iyengar" <arun_iy...@hotmail.com> wrote
> OK then, walk the talk. Though I know New York Raja well (he lives in
> Toronto BTW), I am with RK and Ashok here. Show me the proof! It's easy to
> throw around big numbers to inflate somebody into a larger than life image.
> Ilayaraja's films are well documented. www.raaja.com is a good source though
> you should ignore their claim of 20,000 concerts in 8 years. RMIM has time
> and again discussed how fallacious some of these numbers are. So if you have
> any proof about MSV composing music for over 1000 films other than some
> random claim on some website, here's your chance...
Arun,
This topic has been beaten to death at tfmpage.com. Raja fans would
just leap on such claims and tear it down to pieces :-)
Anyhow this was one of the responses by one poster, which I tend
to agree with.
rk-
=================================
From: pg (@ gate02.merck-medco.com) on: Tue Jun 13 08:51:32 EDT 2000
People have been making this claim sometime now (MSV - 1000+ films).
PPP lists 379 films for MSV and 81 movies for MSV-TKR. That's 460
movies total less than 50%.
If people claim 1000+ MSV movies, they should come up with a list.
==================================
rkusenet
"rkusenet" <rkus...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:bigk14$94r0q$1...@ID-75254.news.uni-berlin.de...
Still that does not take away the fact that MSV was a great composer
while being prolific also. 460 films itself is not easy.
rk-
Narayanan
"Arun Iyengar" <arun_iy...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bigims$3...@netnews.proxy.lucent.com...
> "Narayanan" <tiger_va...@yahoo.com.spamnot> wrote in message
> news:8b6328ad9ee7b9f6...@news.teranews.com...
>
>
> > > MSV (jointly and solo) has composed music for
> > > nearly 1000 films?
> >
> > MSV started his career in 1958 or so. Whole of 60s and a good
> > portion of 70s were done by him.
> >
> > > I'll bet that you are wrong by a factor
> > > of 3, at least. 1000 songs would be nearer.
> >
> > If I were as clueless as you about something, I will keep my
> > mouth shut.
>
>
> OK then, walk the talk. Though I know New York Raja well (he lives in
> Toronto BTW), I am with RK and Ashok here.
Ashok's claim is off the mark straight away.
To recap:
"I'll bet that you are wrong by a factor
of 3, at least. 1000 songs would be nearer."
MSV himself composed more than 350 even if you exlude zillion
dubbings in telugu. Plus this is not a comprehensive list but a
reconstruction of the past after 20 years or so.
http://www.tfmpage.com/ppp/msv_list.html
This is MSV's alone.
If you can read tamil you will realize that this doesn't list any telugu
movies both dubbed or original ones. You will not find Marocharitra,
Aakali rajyam, Anandamina anubhavam, Idhi Kadha Kaadu etc.
MSV composed 100+ movies in Tamil alone since 1980s if you follow
the msv link I have posted.
> Show me the proof! It's easy to
> throw around big numbers to inflate somebody into a larger than life image.
> Ilayaraja's films are well documented. www.raaja.com is a good source though
> you should ignore their claim of 20,000 concerts in 8 years.
Look who is throwing random numbers here.
Should I to expect you to list down the venues and dates of
of 20K concerts here? Forget 20K, I think you wouldn't
be able to list even 20 concerts with date and venue.
One thing you must remember is Raja's movies were more easily
documentable on the net simply because he started his career more
recently. V-R for partnership for instance ended 30+ years before
anyone cared to document them all. No one can list all the movies
in which Lata sang for instance. There is a claim that she sang 30K
songs which means about 5K moves(assuming 6 songs a movie avg).
Do we even have a website which lists all Lata sung movies? Most
of the Net reconstruction happened after 1995. No one really
maintained the scorecards like cricket so deligently. It is next to impossible
to list even half the tally of 60s in 1995.
> RMIM has time
> and again discussed how fallacious some of these numbers are. So if you have
> any proof about MSV composing music for over 1000 films other than some
I only said around 1000. Already you have distorted it.
> random claim on some website, here's your chance...
OK, here I go.
There were 1320+ tamil movies movies between 1960 and 1979.
Use an excel sheet you will arive at the figures.
http://www.adindia.net/totalfilms.htm
This may well not be comprehensive list. Of the 1320 Ilayaraja composed
< 70 Tamil movies. KV Mahadevan probably composed < 250 movies
including all the dubbings from telugu. Shakar Ganesh, Veda, V.Kumar
were other 3 MDs who were around. They put together composed 250
movies. The rest 20 odd mds put together had 100 movies in all.
That still leaves 650 movies between 1960 and 1979. I have not
accounted for dubbed Telugu movies and original telugu movies.
Add to this the post 80s 100+ and pre 60s movies. Unless you can find
a guy more prolific than MSV in 60s and 70s, I assure you, you wouldn't
be able to account for 1320+ movies in the 60s and 70s alone. Let's
see if someone can account for 1320 movies, with MSV less than say 500
movies in 1960 to 1979. Remember again 1320 is Tamil movies alone
in that era.
N-
Narayanan
"Narayanan" <tiger_va...@yahoo.com.spamnot> wrote in
> One thing you must remember is Raja's movies were more easily
> documentable on the net simply because he started his career more
> recently. V-R for partnership for instance ended 30+ years before
> anyone cared to document them all. No one can list all the movies
> in which Lata sang for instance. There is a claim that she sang 30K
> songs which means about 5K moves(assuming 6 songs a movie avg).
> Do we even have a website which lists all Lata sung movies? Most
> of the Net reconstruction happened after 1995. No one really
> maintained the scorecards like cricket so deligently. It is next to impossible
> to list even half the tally of 60s in 1995.
>
Another thing to remember is post 1975 was a audio cassette era.
There were many people buying them. It is not suriprising that
only Raja's number of movies are completely accounted for as
his debut was in 1976. Very few people had gramaphone player
in India as opposed to cassette player. The reconstruction after
20-30 years is hugely error prone. 1960 had 50+ movies. No
one on the Net will maintain records for even 30 movies well.
Till 1979 Raja did lesser number of movies than MSV in Tamil.
And Raaja.com lists < 60 tamil movies of IR in 70s. We are
talking to Ilayaraja scoring less than 60 movies in that period
not some also ran composer. You can imagine what also
rans would have done.
The tfmpage link of MSV lists only ~320 odd in 60s and 70s.
That still leaves 940 of 1320+ not accurately accounted for. MSV
by the virtue of being most prolific owned the good percentage
of those 940 unaccounted movies, IMO. I would like to see if
anyone give a reasonable breakup if he/she wants to contend
with MSV being most prolific in that era.
N-
Surjit Singh
> anyone cared to document them all. No one can list all the movies
> in which Lata sang for instance. There is a claim that she sang 30K
> songs which means about 5K moves(assuming 6 songs a movie avg).
But she was in the well-known Guiness Book of World Records. Is MSV in
any book of records?
> Do we even have a website which lists all Lata sung movies? Most
> N-
Narayanan
"Surjit Singh" <surjit...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bigup0$6ljna$1...@ID-159547.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Narayanan wrote:
> > anyone cared to document them all. No one can list all the movies
> > in which Lata sang for instance. There is a claim that she sang 30K
> > songs which means about 5K moves(assuming 6 songs a movie avg).
>
> But she was in the well-known Guiness Book of World Records. Is MSV in
> any book of records?
Does the guiness give accurate/aproximate figures?
Can you produce the number it states?
Recent time magazine article on bollywood says anything
between 30K and 50K. You see the error margin of 20K
is huge compared to conservative claim of 30K or for
that matter even aggressive estimate of 50K.
N-
Narayanan
"Narayanan" <tiger_va...@yahoo.com.spamnot> wrote in message
Now check this debate on Lata. It talks about 25K being
exaggerated etc.
http://216.239.37.104/search?q=cache:QuKgrBnTAcAJ:members.rediff.com/lata/art6.html+Lata+Mangeshkar+
guiness&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
N-
Arun Iyengar
> > Show me the proof! It's easy to
> > throw around big numbers to inflate somebody into a larger than life
image.
> > Ilayaraja's films are well documented. www.raaja.com is a good source
though
> > you should ignore their claim of 20,000 concerts in 8 years.
>
> Look who is throwing random numbers here.
> Should I to expect you to list down the venues and dates of
> of 20K concerts here? Forget 20K, I think you wouldn't
> be able to list even 20 concerts with date and venue.
I was not making the claim of 20k concerts. The website does. This utterly
ridiculous claim means the IR gave about 7 concerts per day for 8 years!
No one can list all the movies
> in which Lata sang for instance.
Since you have been a late comer to this group, it is excusable for you to
make such a statement. With the help of 5 volumes of Hindi Film Geet Kosh
diligently put together by Hamraazji and others (well before the dawn of WWW
if I might add), Vishwas Nerurkar's book on Lata songs, if we were to list
her post-90 (known) output and her known marathi and bengali films, I would
venture to say that listing about 99% of the movies in which Lata sang, is
quite within reach.
There is a claim that she sang 30K
> songs which means about 5K moves(assuming 6 songs a movie avg).
> Do we even have a website which lists all Lata sung movies? Most
> of the Net reconstruction happened after 1995. No one really
> maintained the scorecards like cricket so deligently. It is next to
impossible
> to list even half the tally of 60s in 1995.
Again, this topic has been beaten to death on RMIM. There have been many
unverified claims about artistes like Lata, Rafi, SPB, P. Susheela etc. It
usually starts off with someone making an announcement on stage or in some
interview and it is taken at face value for whatever reason. Before you know
it, it starts appearing in newspaper articles, websites etc.
Anyway, it has pretty much been established (on this forum at least) that
Lata's total film and non-film, hindi and non-hindi, output is probably not
greater than 8000. Check it out on google archives. But Lata's 30K legend
ought to be the most egregious claim of the lot given that it somehow made
it into the Guiness book. From what I gather, they are usually quite
diligent in their research and it would be interesting to know how this
number actually made it into the book. While on the topic does anyone know
who holds the current record for the maximum number of songs in the Guiness
book? Asha?? Guess not. Otherwise it would have been big news by now.
> OK, here I go.
> There were 1320+ tamil movies movies between 1960 and 1979.
> Use an excel sheet you will arive at the figures.
> http://www.adindia.net/totalfilms.htm
> This may well not be comprehensive list. Of the 1320 Ilayaraja composed
> < 70 Tamil movies. KV Mahadevan probably composed < 250 movies
> including all the dubbings from telugu. Shakar Ganesh, Veda, V.Kumar
> were other 3 MDs who were around. They put together composed 250
> movies. The rest 20 odd mds put together had 100 movies in all.
> That still leaves 650 movies between 1960 and 1979. I have not
> accounted for dubbed Telugu movies and original telugu movies.
> Add to this the post 80s 100+ and pre 60s movies. Unless you can find
> a guy more prolific than MSV in 60s and 70s, I assure you, you wouldn't
> be able to account for 1320+ movies in the 60s and 70s alone. Let's
> see if someone can account for 1320 movies, with MSV less than say 500
> movies in 1960 to 1979. Remember again 1320 is Tamil movies alone
> in that era.
Absence of proof to negate a claim does not prove the claim itself. MSV's
output of about 1000 movies is still circumspect and should be held as such
until we get a reasonable estimate of his output. From what I have read so
far in the sources you cite, MSV's output seems to be close to 500 take or
leave a few tens. There is always a possibility of (re)discovering his
undocumented films. Will they push the tally close to 1000? I think not.
Narayanan
>
> Since you have been a late comer to this group, it is excusable for you to
> make such a statement. With the help of 5 volumes of Hindi Film Geet Kosh
> diligently put together by Hamraazji and others (well before the dawn of WWW
> if I might add), Vishwas Nerurkar's book on Lata songs, if we were to list
> her post-90 (known) output and her known marathi and bengali films, I would
> venture to say that listing about 99% of the movies in which Lata sang, is
> quite within reach.
Interestingly with 99% percent reachability, there is not a
universally accepted estimate. Even time mag states it as
30K-50K.
>
>
> There is a claim that she sang 30K
> > songs which means about 5K moves(assuming 6 songs a movie avg).
> > Do we even have a website which lists all Lata sung movies? Most
> > of the Net reconstruction happened after 1995. No one really
> > maintained the scorecards like cricket so deligently. It is next to
> impossible
> > to list even half the tally of 60s in 1995.
>
>
> Again, this topic has been beaten to death on RMIM. There have been many
> unverified claims about artistes like Lata, Rafi, SPB, P. Susheela etc. It
> usually starts off with someone making an announcement on stage or in some
> interview and it is taken at face value for whatever reason. Before you know
> it, it starts appearing in newspaper articles, websites etc.
What is beaten to death in RMIM by bunch of hobbyists is
less credible than what appears on a print media.
>
>
> > OK, here I go.
> > There were 1320+ tamil movies movies between 1960 and 1979.
> > Use an excel sheet you will arive at the figures.
> > http://www.adindia.net/totalfilms.htm
> > This may well not be comprehensive list. Of the 1320 Ilayaraja composed
> > < 70 Tamil movies. KV Mahadevan probably composed < 250 movies
> > including all the dubbings from telugu. Shakar Ganesh, Veda, V.Kumar
> > were other 3 MDs who were around. They put together composed 250
> > movies. The rest 20 odd mds put together had 100 movies in all.
> > That still leaves 650 movies between 1960 and 1979. I have not
> > accounted for dubbed Telugu movies and original telugu movies.
> > Add to this the post 80s 100+ and pre 60s movies. Unless you can find
> > a guy more prolific than MSV in 60s and 70s, I assure you, you wouldn't
> > be able to account for 1320+ movies in the 60s and 70s alone. Let's
> > see if someone can account for 1320 movies, with MSV less than say 500
> > movies in 1960 to 1979. Remember again 1320 is Tamil movies alone
> > in that era.
>
>
> Absence of proof to negate a claim does not prove the claim itself.
Yeah right. You are looking for a water tight proof now. Good.
Now prove that Raja scored 800+ movies. don't give me raaja.com.
It is the same website which states Raja made 20K concerts in
8 years. So whatever unknown movies the website claims
are unproven. There are ~400 movies which you and I can't
prove. Raja himself cannot prove many of the movies are
his! It is clear that Raaja.com has indulged in a large scale
inflation with regards to number of concerts, hence they
are not a credible proof for anything they claim on Raja.
I can start a website right this evening and lay claims on
those unclaimed movies of 60s and 70s.
I assure you, you won't be able to get hold of more than 1000
songs of Raja(which works out to be less than 400 movies).
There are many hidden gems IMO.
Instead of arguing for argument sake try addressing this.
Let me see if you/anyone can dispute even one point I make
below.
1) There were 1322 movies between 1960 and 1979. I can
upload a list.
2) MSV was clearly the leader in 60s and 70s. MSV was the
most prolific in that era.
3) Ilayaraja was the biggest competitor MSV had in
that era. Rest of the gang, barring KVM lost their deposit.
4) Even when Raja was around, MSV scored > 30% movies.
When Raja was not around, MSV was almost unquestioned.
It is fair to claim that 35-40% of 60s and 70s movies were
done by MSV.
If you or anyone can't dispute any of the above, I will go with
close to 1000 claim as that seems quite likely for the most
prolific MD of that era.
If you don't think estimation as acceptable proof, then
all those discussions on how many songs were by Lata
in RMIM archives (which are also estimations ) are
unprovable claims. Let me see if anyone lists more than
5K-6K songs.
N-
Arun Iyengar
> What is beaten to death in RMIM by bunch of hobbyists is
> less credible than what appears on a print media.
Obviously you are not familiar with the gurus on this forum or how credible
the information is on this forum. Of course everything that everybody says
on RMIM is not credible but discerning what's credible and what's not is as
easy as night and day to me. I would much rather go with most of the things
that Satishji or Surjitji or Ashok or few others state than some stupid
claims in the print media. (I know you will again quote Ashok here but he
guestimated 350 movies or 1000 songs for MVS unlike you who is laying a firm
claim of about 1000 movies for MVS.) If Time claims 30K to 50K songs for
Lata, it is obviously wrong and so what if it happens to be the most popular
news magazine in the world. It is still wrong!
> > Absence of proof to negate a claim does not prove the claim itself.
>
> Yeah right. You are looking for a water tight proof now. Good.
> Now prove that Raja scored 800+ movies. don't give me raaja.com.
> It is the same website which states Raja made 20K concerts in
> 8 years. So whatever unknown movies the website claims
> are unproven. There are ~400 movies which you and I can't
> prove. Raja himself cannot prove many of the movies are
> his! It is clear that Raaja.com has indulged in a large scale
> inflation with regards to number of concerts, hence they
> are not a credible proof for anything they claim on Raja.
> I can start a website right this evening and lay claims on
> those unclaimed movies of 60s and 70s.
> I assure you, you won't be able to get hold of more than 1000
> songs of Raja(which works out to be less than 400 movies).
> There are many hidden gems IMO.
Well we can go on ad infinitum as to what does and does not constitute proof
of someone's work. It is theoritically possible that someone could
(intentionally or otherwise) wrongly attribute hundreds of movies to an MD.
Only someone who has songs from some of those movies can verify the claim as
right or wrong. The database on raaja.com seems quite comprehensive
(songs/films by year, singers, lyricist). I would much rather believe
something when it is laid out in so much detail than some claim which has no
basis (ex: 20k concerts in 8 years). If it so happens that we happen to
discover that many of these films/songs were just bogus claims, you can
always revise your opinion then.
> If you don't think estimation as acceptable proof, then
> all those discussions on how many songs were by Lata
> in RMIM archives (which are also estimations ) are
> unprovable claims. Let me see if anyone lists more than
> 5K-6K songs.
Next you will claim that the Geet Kosh is unproveable because quite a few
songs and movies of the 30s and 40s are unavailable. And then what next?
Vishwas Nerurkar's book is missing thousands of Lata songs because it lists
less than 6k songs? Surjitji, I think you need to have another contest for
Lata songs along the lines of Rafi song contest :-)
A
--
(Remove 999 to reply)
PS. I am no expert in tamil movie songs and so I don't have any idea of the
1322 movies you say were released in the 60s and 70s.
Surjit Singh
> Next you will claim that the Geet Kosh is unproveable because quite a few
> songs and movies of the 30s and 40s are unavailable. And then what next?
> Vishwas Nerurkar's book is missing thousands of Lata songs because it lists
> less than 6k songs? Surjitji, I think you need to have another contest for
> Lata songs along the lines of Rafi song contest :-)
There are couple of reasons why I did not get involved much in this.
Firstly, I do not know who MSV is. Even the Encyclopaedia of Indian
Cinema published by Oxford does not mention him. Secondly, this fella
seems to hard to pin down. I tried to find out what he would constitute
as acceptable proof. But he seems to be saying, not this, not this, etc.
Somewhat like our forefathers talking about brahma.
>
> A
--
Surjit Singh, a diehard movie fan(atic), period.
http://hindi-movies-songs.com/index.html
Loony Tunes
.
> Firstly, I do not know who MSV is.
MSV - M S Viswanathan, a music director from South India who has composed "a
lot" of songs for Tamil and Telugu films. He might have composed for other
languages too but I am not aware of them.
-k
naniwadekar
"Surjit Singh" <surjit...@yahoo.com> wrote -
>
> There are couple of reasons why I did not get involved much in this.
> Firstly, I do not know who MSV is. Even the Encyclopaedia of Indian
> Cinema published by Oxford does not mention him. Secondly, this fella
> seems to hard to pin down. I tried to find out what he would constitute
> as acceptable proof. But he seems to be saying, not this, not this, etc.
> Somewhat like our forefathers talking about brahma.
>
Don't be unreasonable, Professor.
Our Veda-authoring forefathers were real stubborn bastards
who stuck to 'neti, neti' come what may. Narayanan is an
honourable gentleman. He says no-no only to poor brown
ignorant Indian fools. The moment the aah!-so-slick, oh-so-respectable Time
magazine says 'Lata Mangeshkar has sung
30,000 songs', he accepts it. I must say I like his attitude.
Srinivas Ganti
"Loony Tunes" <kamesh...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bij25f$a4e2k$1...@ID-154916.news.uni-berlin.de...
Apart from scoring solo, he also composed under Viswanath - Ramamoorthy
team.
V-R's most famous Hindi song is "lauT gayaa Gam ka zamaana".
sg.
Surjit Singh
>
> Apart from scoring solo, he also composed under Viswanath - Ramamoorthy
> team.
> V-R's most famous Hindi song is "lauT gayaa Gam ka zamaana".
>
Oh OK. I also have his chandaa tale o o by talat and bhaanumati. Not
enough samples in this case to form an opinion. But quite good in these 2.
> sg.
Narayanan
> "Narayanan" <tiger_va...@yahoo.com.spamnot> wrote in message
> news:da1efe89d1d94127...@news.teranews.com...
>
>
> > What is beaten to death in RMIM by bunch of hobbyists is
> > less credible than what appears on a print media.
>
>
> Obviously you are not familiar with the gurus on this forum or how credible
> the information is on this forum.
How about this? I am not interested in usenet gurus. They are
dime a dozen.
> I would much rather go with most of the things
> that Satishji or Surjitji or Ashok or few others state than some stupid
You believe what you want to believe. I am not going to
stop you :). Just my 2 cents
Surjitji doesn't know who MSV is. He has taken Lata's 30K
songs claim as a gospel even though experts and gurus
of RMIM seem to have beaten to death and claim it is less
than 8K. Therefore, Surjitji is not a guru. Proof by contradiction :)
> claims in the print media. (I know you will again quote Ashok here but he
> guestimated 350 movies or 1000 songs for MVS unlike you who is laying a firm
> claim of about 1000 movies for MVS.)
Quick recap since you seem to be hell bent on getting it wrong
again.
Ashok claimed:
"I'll bet that you are wrong by a factor
of 3, at least. 1000 songs would be nearer."
Talk of firm claims. Observe the word "bet" used by Ashok
Do the math. 1000/(3+delta) <=333. So, don't inflate it to
~350 here. You have acknowledged that MSV has
made ~500 movies. Which is very different from even the
~350 you have stated. I _bet_ Ashok didn't guestimate the
factor of 3. What he did was a wild guess. To guestimate you
need to know a few details like about how many movies were
made and what %age MSV was scoring etc. Guestimate is
what I am asking you guys to make given 1322 movies and
MSV's ~30% scoring since Raja's advent.
> If Time claims 30K to 50K songs for
> Lata, it is obviously wrong and so what if it happens to be the most popular
> news magazine in the world. It is still wrong!
Is Surjitji still wrong? Beware of the wrath of gurus :-).
Unless anyone of you guys dispute the claim of ~1000 want
to guesestimate the %age of MSV movies out of the movie links
I will consider the topic to be closed. I don't see Ashokji
retracting/supplying proof for 1000/(3+delta), or Surjitji retracting
/supplying proof for Lata's 30K etc. This thread is getting
naniwadekarized(We can soon expect Lata eats chicken,
Asha drinks cognac etc. etc.)
N-
rkusenet
"Arun Iyengar" <arun_iy...@hotmail.com> wrote
> PS. I am no expert in tamil movie songs and so I don't have any idea of the
> 1322 movies you say were released in the 60s and 70s.
What is surprising is that when there is a list of
1322 tamil movies from 1960-79, why it can't be determined
that how many of those were composed by MSV. After all ,
it just requires someone with knowledge of tamil movies
to go thru the list and identify MSV one. Should not
take more than few hours, let alone days. I am sure
there are enuf knowledgable guys in TN who can do that.
The fact that no one has done it, raises suspicion that it
is nothing but gas. The best joke is in MSV website where it
is claimed that 1000 films is a world record. Excuse me,
world record is not self claimed. Some one has to acknowledge,
like Guiness Book of World record or any other reputable
organization, before someone can boast it as a world record.
Like Bappi Lahiri's claim of world record of 33 films in 1986.
rk-
Cricketislife!
wrote:
>The fact that no one has done it, raises suspicion that it
>is nothing but gas. The best joke is in MSV website where it
>is claimed that 1000 films is a world record. Excuse me,
>world record is not self claimed. Some one has to acknowledge,
>like Guiness Book of World record or any other reputable
>organization, before someone can boast it as a world record.
>Like Bappi Lahiri's claim of world record of 33 films in 1986.
But anyways rk, you have to agree with the main argument of N. MSV
(who I am sure you will agree and I think u have already posted it, is
a damn good MD, one of the best Indian MDs all time) did quite a many
movies and by the end, he ran into the 'creative block'. as a aside I
saw a recent Interview with ARR where he is saying he has had the
block. MSV had actually quite a long creative run compared to
others. Who can forget his great music for the old Tamizh songs.
Melodius, memorable and hummable songs.
Arun Iyengar
> > Obviously you are not familiar with the gurus on this forum or how
credible
> > the information is on this forum.
>
> How about this? I am not interested in usenet gurus. They are
> dime a dozen.
So are the misinformed journalists.
> Surjitji doesn't know who MSV is. He has taken Lata's 30K
> songs claim as a gospel even though experts and gurus
> of RMIM seem to have beaten to death and claim it is less
> than 8K. Therefore, Surjitji is not a guru. Proof by contradiction :)
I won't get into defending all of whom I consider gurus (of HFM mind you) on
this forum but all I can say is that you are mistaken about Surjitji. Here
are some links on what he thinks about these stupid number claims.
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=lata+20,000+songs+group:rec.music.indian.m
isc+author:Surjit+author:Singh&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=37eb6192.011
0211918.49cba8d2%40posting.google.com&rnum=1
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=lata+20,000+songs+group:rec.music.indian.m
isc+author:Surjit+author:Singh&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=37eb6192.011
0142127.1c2982d5%40posting.google.com&rnum=3
And here's what appeared on Indian express about his Rafi song contest.
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=lata+20,000+songs+group:rec.music.indian.m
isc+author:Surjit+author:Singh&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=37eb6192.011
0211918.49cba8d2%40posting.google.com&rnum=1
> Ashok claimed:
> "I'll bet that you are wrong by a factor
> of 3, at least. 1000 songs would be nearer."
>
> Talk of firm claims. Observe the word "bet" used by Ashok
> Do the math. 1000/(3+delta) <=333. So, don't inflate it to
> ~350 here. You have acknowledged that MSV has
> made ~500 movies. Which is very different from even the
> ~350 you have stated. I _bet_ Ashok didn't guestimate the
> factor of 3. What he did was a wild guess. To guestimate you
> need to know a few details like about how many movies were
> made and what %age MSV was scoring etc. Guestimate is
> what I am asking you guys to make given 1322 movies and
> MSV's ~30% scoring since Raja's advent.
OK OK got it. Ashok was wrong.
Signing off...
A
---
(Remove 999 to reply)
Narayanan
"Cricketislife!" <cricke...@rediffmail.com> wrote in message
news:u5oqkvso76jatovc5...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 20:10:35 -0400, "rkusenet" <rkus...@sympatico.ca>
> wrote:
>
> >The fact that no one has done it, raises suspicion that it
> >is nothing but gas. The best joke is in MSV website where it
> >is claimed that 1000 films is a world record. Excuse me,
> >world record is not self claimed. Some one has to acknowledge,
> >like Guiness Book of World record or any other reputable
> >organization, before someone can boast it as a world record.
> >Like Bappi Lahiri's claim of world record of 33 films in 1986.
>
> But anyways rk, you have to agree with the main argument of N. MSV
> (who I am sure you will agree and I think u have already posted it, is
> a damn good MD, one of the best Indian MDs all time) did quite a many
> movies and by the end, he ran into the 'creative block'.
I said this repeatedly:- Even as late as 1979 MSV did more
Tamil movies than IR(anyone else). That is at the end of 20th
year he still was a leader in numbers. All this doesn't even include
Telugu movies. Isn't anyone surprised by the fact that MSV had
close to 100 movies in 80s? I mean in a era in which he was
nowhere near Raja or his own best he had ~100 movies in 10
years.
N-
Narayanan
> "Narayanan" <tiger_va...@yahoo.com.spamnot> wrote in message
>
> > > Obviously you are not familiar with the gurus on this forum or how
> credible
> > > the information is on this forum.
> >
> > How about this? I am not interested in usenet gurus. They are
> > dime a dozen.
>
>
> So are the misinformed journalists.
Not denying this as such.
>
>
> I won't get into defending all of whom I consider gurus (of HFM mind you) on
> this forum but all I can say is that you are mistaken about Surjitji. Here
> are some links on what he thinks about these stupid number claims.
<snip>
Fair enough. However, in case of Lata he didn't do the same
he did for Rafi. And I am genuinely surprised that someone
doesn't know MSV.
N-
naniwadekar
"Narayanan" <tiger_va...@yahoo.com.spamnot> wrote -
>
> Fair enough. However, in case of Lata he didn't do the same
> he did for Rafi.
>
I see. So the only way people can be convinced about
Lata's number of songs is if Prof SS offered dollars for
*her* uncredited songs.
rkusenet
> But anyways rk, you have to agree with the main argument of N. MSV
> (who I am sure you will agree and I think u have already posted it, is
> a damn good MD, one of the best Indian MDs all time) did quite a many
> movies and by the end, he ran into the 'creative block'. as a aside I
> saw a recent Interview with ARR where he is saying he has had the
> block. MSV had actually quite a long creative run compared to
> others. Who can forget his great music for the old Tamizh songs.
> Melodius, memorable and hummable songs.
Absolutely. There is no doubt that he was a great composer. As I said
earlier, I believe he composed close to 400 films and even that is a
huge figure.
But this 1000 films claim is without proof at this time. Why we should
rely on conjectures and half guesses when really it is not that difficult
to catalog his movies. I mean, if Lata and Rafi songs can be cataloged
by Surjit Singhs and Vishwas Nerukar's of the world, why can't MSVs list
of films. Surely cataloging thousands of songs is much tougher.
I don't agree that in the old days no one cataloged. Laxmi Pyare started
in 1961 (paras mani) and their 500th movie was Bhairavi in 1996). So that
means their each and every movie was tracked.
If u notice Iraja's movies were cataloged right from the beginning and
not only in the internet era. For e.g. Moodupani was well publicised as
his 100the movie. Noorada Naal as his 200th movie. Similarly Kamal's
100th movie Raja Parvai was also well publicised.
I am sure back in 1960s, Shivaji and MGR's landmark films like 100th
or 200th would have been given its due coverage in media.
Why is that MSV's 500th film or 600th film etc was never reported.
It should have made news at that time.
How did anyone arrive at the figure of 1000.
rk-
Arun Iyengar
"rkusenet" <rkus...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> Why is that MSV's 500th film or 600th film etc was never reported.
> It should have made news at that time.
>
> How did anyone arrive at the figure of 1000.
Good point RK. IIRC Anjali was IR's 500th movie. I am pretty sure MSV must
have had these milestones widely publicised at that time. Let's see if Mr.
Tiger Varadachar can come up with something here :-)
Loony Tunes
>
> Oh OK. I also have his chandaa tale o o by talat and bhaanumati. Not
> enough samples in this case to form an opinion. But quite good in these 2.
Would this be the same bhaanumati, who sang for Telugu films? I didnt know
she sang for Hindi Movies. Thanx for that bit.
-k
Srinivas Ganti
Yes she is the same Bhanumati. The movie is Chandirani which was first made
in
Telugu and then dubbed in Hindi. A Tamil version also exists.
Checkout
for both versions of the Telugu and Hindi version mp3's.
sg.
Loony Tunes
"Srinivas Ganti" <gant...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bilk67$a4dov$1...@ID-75004.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> Yes she is the same Bhanumati. The movie is Chandirani which was first
made
> in
> Telugu and then dubbed in Hindi. A Tamil version also exists.
>
> Checkout
>
> www.sdburman.com/telugu.html
>
> for both versions of the Telugu and Hindi version mp3's.
Srinivas,
The link you gave takes me to
http://www.angelfire.com/film/hindisongs/index.html/telugu.html and on that
page I could not find the songs.
Am I missing something?
-k
>
> sg.
>
>
>
>
>
Nimish Pachapurkar
kamesh...@yahoo.com wrote on 8/28/03 1:05 PM:
>
> Srinivas,
>
> The link you gave takes me to
> http://www.angelfire.com/film/hindisongs/index.html/telugu.html and on that
> page I could not find the songs.
>
> Am I missing something?
>
>
For now, remove that "index.html/" part from the URL and listen to the song.
In the meanwhile, I am checking as to why the URL has become so silly....
- Nimish
Narayanan
>
> "rkusenet" <rkus...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>
> > Why is that MSV's 500th film or 600th film etc was never reported.
> > It should have made news at that time.
> >
> > How did anyone arrive at the figure of 1000.
>
>
> Good point RK.
Bad point Arun. Can you name MSV's 100th movie?
200th ? Lata's 1000th song? they don't exist?
> IIRC Anjali was IR's 500th movie.
That is correct. The milestone has been recalled correctly.
> I am pretty sure MSV must
> have had these milestones widely publicised at that time. Let's see if Mr.
> Tiger Varadachar can come up with something here :-)
If I claim MSV's 500th movie is Avaluendru oru manam
you will be able to disprove it? If so, you would have
already disputed the claim that Nooravathu Naal is IR's 200th
film. You guys point me to raaja.com. But, it seems to me that
you guys have not gone through it. For instance, I can
prove Nooravathu Naal is not 200th film. NN came
in1984. By the end of 1983 IR had crossed 200 films. You
guys don't remember the milestone(I do know IR's 200th).
I have read in this very forum that IR's 100th film is Rajaparvai.
Go to groups.google.com and type "Rajaparvai 100th".
Rajaparvai was kamal's 100th film FYI. So much for such and
such movie is a milestone, that it is forgotten so easily.
MGR is such a poor example to point out a milestone. He made
his debut in 1936. For 10+ years he acted as waiter, villain's
sidekick, hero's dad!, tea stall owner, 12 man, drinksman,
etc. etc. His first moment of glory came in 1947 with the film
Rajakumari. Oli Vilakku is what some journalists believe
MGR's 100th is. That is not beyond dispute. RMIM however
is a different ball game. If you have posted here for some n
number of years, you can emphatically state sun rises in the
west.
These are the ones I know right away from quick googling are
some of the ones not listed in tfmpage.com
Tenali ramakrishna, karna, kutumba gowrawam
Akali Rajyam, Marocharitra, anandamina anubhavam,
prayaschitam, sippyi chinnaiah, aadarabrathuku, chandi rani,
idhi kadha kaadu, manase mandiram, anthuleni katha,
premalu pellilu, manchi chedu, guppidu manasu, letha manasulu,
intiki deepam illalle, lankaadahanam, babumon, rajayogam,
pani theeratha veedu, sangamam, Panchami, ganesha mahime,
benkiyalli aralida hoovu, manmatheya madilu, yeradu rekhagalu,
naya aadmi.
Next time I visit India, I shall try to collect all the MSV
films which you won't find in tfmpage.
N-
Surjit Singh
> "Arun Iyengar" <arun_iy...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:rXm3b.1554$yg.6...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
>
>>"rkusenet" <rkus...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>>
>>
>>>Why is that MSV's 500th film or 600th film etc was never reported.
>>>It should have made news at that time.
>>>
>>>How did anyone arrive at the figure of 1000.
>>
>>
>>Good point RK.
>
>
> Bad point Arun. Can you name MSV's 100th movie?
> 200th ? Lata's 1000th song? they don't exist?
>
Let me try one more time. Do you yourself have reasonable and sincere
belief that MSV has given music for about 1,000 movies in all languages?
If you say yes, then I can help you by outlining a reasonably fool-proof
process that can be used to verify or disprove this and you can actually
do this on your next visit to India!
>
> N-
Narayanan
> Narayanan wrote:
>
> > "Arun Iyengar" <arun_iy...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:rXm3b.1554$yg.6...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
> >
> >>"rkusenet" <rkus...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> >>
> >>
> >>>Why is that MSV's 500th film or 600th film etc was never reported.
> >>>It should have made news at that time.
> >>>
> >>>How did anyone arrive at the figure of 1000.
> >>
> >>
> >>Good point RK.
> >
> >
> > Bad point Arun. Can you name MSV's 100th movie?
> > 200th ? Lata's 1000th song? they don't exist?
> >
>
> Let me try one more time. Do you yourself have reasonable and sincere
> belief that MSV has given music for about 1,000 movies in all languages?
Well, there could be. It is OK if I am proven wrong. I myself
would like to know how far it is true. However, people who
don't know MSV, people who bet on random factors, people
who don't know MSV's 100th and 200th movie but conviniently
pick up 500th and 600th movie, to make it look as though only
500th and 600th are unknown and not 100th and 200th are the
ones debating it here. I am told you guys are all gurujis here.
The moment I scratch the surface, I see a sidenote which appears
within brackets that you guys are all gurus only in HFM. That is
supposed to be a polite way of stating that you guys know nothing
about the topic you were debating all the while. What more,
senior citizens despite lack of knowledge of the topic they are
debating about, look down upon new comers. One would
have thought people would state it upfront with a standard
disclaimer "I am no expert in such and such topic, yet my 2
cents". Not so here. Loony tunes is a new comer here. He said
the same last month, only worded it differently.
Speaking for myself, I am not the most knowledeable guy on
Tamil films. In fact, I have not even bought one filmy cassette/CD
all my life. I have listened to TFM till about 83-84 on the AIR
and in the last one year on the Net. However, having watched
/read about enough films in the 80s and 90s, I do have a general
idea of things. My knowledge of classical music came in handy
many times to analyze the music. All said and done, I am sorry to
state that, people who have debated with me know much less
than I do, with regards to TFM. Not knowing is not a problem
by itslef. But the attitude of "my credibility is bigger and better
than yours" owing to my seniority, puts me off.
>
> If you say yes, then I can help you by outlining a reasonably fool-proof
> process that can be used to verify or disprove this and you can actually
> do this on your next visit to India!
Then why didn't you apply the reasonably foolproof method
for Lata's 30K-50K claim? Instead you chose to apply it only
to people whom you want to apply. Is that how it works here?
I would like to know how has Lata's record been recorded in
the guiness. In anycase do outline your method for verifying the
claim.
I will be off the net, next couple of days.
N-
rkusenet
"Surjit Singh" <surjit...@yahoo.com> wrote
> Let me try one more time. Do you yourself have reasonable and sincere
> belief that MSV has given music for about 1,000 movies in all languages?
>
> If you say yes, then I can help you by outlining a reasonably fool-proof
> process that can be used to verify or disprove this and you can actually
> do this on your next visit to India!
It would be better if you post ur methodology in http://www.tfmpage.com/forum
where there are lot of tamil music knowledgeable guys. This issue was first
discussed there in 1999 or 2000 and yet to be proved. Simple. He didn't compose
1000 films. If he had, by now, not only would this have been proved irrefutably
but MSV's name would have been in Guinness book of world records.
rk-
naniwadekar
"rkusenet" <rkus...@sympatico.ca> wrote -
>
> It would be better if you post ur methodology in
http://www.tfmpage.com/forum
> where there are lot of tamil music knowledgeable guys.
> This issue was first
> discussed there in 1999 or 2000 and yet to be proved.
>
There are many rmim posters who are very knowledgeable
about Tamil Film Music. They probably kept mum because
Narayanan scratched his own surface and showed there
was nothing inside. Now he is blaming others of that.
Probably he is like Dilip Kumar or Amitabh Bachchan
in their incredibly boring drunken scenes in which they look
in the mirror and think they are seeing someone else.
(For a superb drunken scene, read David Copperfield's
visit to a drama.)
Maybe experts know MSV scored music only for 40 films
(or even less) and they are laughing at Narayanan. Or maybe
they know MSV scored music for at least 1,500 films and
they are laughing at Narayanan's claim. But they *are*
laughing. That is for sure. 1,000 films? - I say totally wrong.
Suggested methodology for counting songs.
(Copyright - Shri Naniwadekar. Permission necessary
before reproducing contents elsewhere.)
Songs are copied from others, copied from one's self, copied
into other language, and what not. So 'weight' factor is important.
Lata - I fully support Guiness Book's decision to remove
her name. And also their earlier decision to add her name.
I fully support Hamraaz. I fully support Nerurkar.
For Lata, songs sung after Idli in the morning should count
double, after Chicken 4 times, after hot tea or coppee 6 times
and those after cold coffee 8 times, and those after starving
through 15 hour session 20 times - what guys, you have no
gratitude that she starved herself to sing songs for you?
Precise data about what Lata ate when was unavailable to
Hamraaz and Nerurkar; so they did not talk about 'weighted'
Lata number. It is between 35,000 and 42,361. Nobody
has disputed Guiness Book's Lata claim. Repeat - NObody.
Mohd Rafi - I fully support Dr Surjit Singh.
MSV - I fully support Narayanan.
For MSV, if he was MD for one film for every humourous
Narayan post, he has 1,023 films to his credit. If he was
MD for 1.4 films for every hahaha post by N, he has
1,432.2 films to his credit.
Total number of MSV's films on second thought -
Thirty-eight. (NOT sure. Maybe more. Maybe less.)
On third thought - first thought was correct.
1,023. (Maybe less. No no no no, I withdraw that.
Maybe more. Actually definitely more.)
1,000 films - Very reasonable claim. I say certainly correct.
It is now proved. This thread is declared closed. Google
shall toss out any attempts to post further in this thread.
Go home, boys. Enjoy hot/cold coppee. Meow.
- dn
Satish Kalra
news:bio3he$bfmrb$1...@ID-75735.news.uni-berlin.de...
....snipped....
Despite your warning that this thread is now closed, I have to add in my 2
cents.
> For Lata, songs sung after Idli in the morning should count
> double, after Chicken 4 times, after hot tea or coppee 6 times
> and those after cold coffee 8 times, and those after starving
> through 15 hour session 20 times - what guys, you have no
> gratitude that she starved herself to sing songs for you?
> Precise data about what Lata ate when was unavailable to
> Hamraaz and Nerurkar; so they did not talk about 'weighted'
> Lata number. It is between 35,000 and 42,361. Nobody
> has disputed Guiness Book's Lata claim. Repeat - NObody.
Sorry - but according to Raju Bhartan's biography on Lata, it was only after
Rafi's taking the matter up with the Guinness people that they removed
Lata's numbers from their book.
So there was somebody who disputed Guinness's Lata claim.
....rest snipped too....
Happy Listenings.
Satish Kalra
Abhay Phadnis
news:g3P3b.1200$zL5...@nwrdny02.gnilink.net...
> "naniwadekar" <nani3...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:bio3he$bfmrb$1...@ID-75735.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
>
> ....snipped....
>
> Despite your warning that this thread is now closed, I have to add in my 2
> cents.
>
> > For Lata, songs sung after Idli in the morning should count
> > double, after Chicken 4 times, after hot tea or coppee 6 times
> > and those after cold coffee 8 times, and those after starving
> > through 15 hour session 20 times - what guys, you have no
> > gratitude that she starved herself to sing songs for you?
> > Precise data about what Lata ate when was unavailable to
> > Hamraaz and Nerurkar; so they did not talk about 'weighted'
> > Lata number. It is between 35,000 and 42,361. Nobody
> > has disputed Guiness Book's Lata claim. Repeat - NObody.
>
> Sorry - but according to Raju Bhartan's biography on Lata, it was only
after
> Rafi's taking the matter up with the Guinness people that they removed
> Lata's numbers from their book.
IIRC, Rafi's grouse was not against the claim that Lata had sung 25K songs,
but that he had himself sung 26K and should therefore be announced as the
record holder!!
Warm regards,
Abhay
