A proposal for an archive for Indian film music
Narsingh
the Indian music film from the thirties, forties and fifties are
gradually reaching an age at which they should start worrying about
the fate of their music collection. Before he left for the heavenly
abode, Satish Kalra ji and I had briefly discussed the fate of his
music collection. I too have a large music collection (all
digitalized) but none of my children are interested in “inheriting” it
(they were all born and raised in USA/Canada and don’t speak any
Indian language). What will happen to my music collection after I am
gone? What about the music collection of other RMIMers who are
reaching my age? Among us, we have a vast collection of rare film
music, from the thirties, forties, fifties, and early sixties (the
film music sort of died sometimes after the mid sixties, so let us not
worry about post 1965 music).
I would like to propose a central archive for the Indian film music of
the thirties, forties and fifties. It should be housed in the music
department of some American or Canadian university. The music
collection should consist of DVDs, CDs and LPs (no audio tapes since
they tend to be fragile and age badly). I thought of asking Surjit
Singh to house the collection and serve as the archivist.
Unfortunately, even he is not going to live for ever. I am looking for
a permanent home. I am willing to will my collection to this archive
along with a modest amount of money to catalog and preserve it. Others
can make similar donations. Music lovers should be able to buy copies
of CDs and/or songs for a modest fee, enough to cover the copying
cost, mailing, etc. Hopefully, this music is off copyright protection
and can be shared.
I would like to hear from other RMIMers. Can anyone think of a
university that might be interested?
Narsingh
Chetan Vinchhi
>
> It should be housed in the music
> department of some American or Canadian university.
This will be a problem. Part of the music you are talking about is
still governed by copyright laws and you have already violated some of
these laws by digitizing the music! (Don't worry, I have also violated
most of these laws). I doubt if a university will touch such tarnished
material with a barge pole. Besides, it is unlikely an American
university will suddenly decide to oblige you unless your proposal is
backed by a fat endowment or other sponsorship.
The best bet IMO is to distribute the archive across locations, even
countries. And have the base somewhere in India, perhaps under the
aegis of a non-government organization set up for the express purpose
of preserving the music. You still have to look out for the copyright
laws. A windowed approach may work, i.e. start archiving everything
more than 60 years old and keep sliding the 60-year window.
C
kcp
Interesting link :
http://www.ncpamumbai.com/facilities/research.asp
Ahmad
I am in a similar situation, my children don't speak urdu/hindi. In
UK and USA the new generation will only speak English.
I think such sites should be in India/Pakistan, where the present
young generation would move on to better film singers if such music
was available. Perhaps a web site like Surjit's will provide such an
opportunity. But your point is valid. This collection should be
stored some where safe; but not in USA or UK in my opinion.
The short shelf life of CD-R is a bit worrying. Chetan has valid
points. Ahmad
Ritu
NGO... that part of your post just popped out and struck me as a
brilliant idea Chetan. I am probably going a little on a tangent,
however I was wondering, cannot we not establish some sort of
organisation that can do precisely this?. An NGO to preserve, archive
and propogate (through musical literature and writings) our musical
heritage. Something formal with some kind of dedicated patronage and
also dedicated effort that can formalise and integrate the effort
various RMIMers and other music lovers have been putting in their
individual or modest collective capacities over the years?
Are there any NGO's of these kinds that we can attach to? Can we setup
our own? What about funding? Who could fund that kind of effort. I am
quite sure it will not survive only on music lovers' contributions.
One might need some other kind of patronage. Probably corporate? Maybe
one can work out arrangements with the music companies to see if
copyright issues can be negotiated to some degree? Just throwing ideas
that are coming to my mind. If something like that could be
established it would be a very positive channeling of all the
enthusiasm around the place.
I think what Narsinghji says is very relevant. The passion which
people like him, Prof Saab, Satish Uncle, Jayraman and many others
have put over so many years to painstakingly collect and archive all
that material should not just fritter away.
Am I thinking too big? Too ambitious? Too naive? Or it might just be
possible for a group like RMIM to establish that sort of institution?
Any thoughts? Anyone?
Ritu
Ritu
Sorry to follow-up on my own mail. I just saw the link KCP had sent. I
was also thinking, there could be a tie-up with National Film Archives
or some such other archival organisation like the one KCP pointed out.
They already have corporate or govt. funding and we could work out an
arrangement where we could establish the film music archiving section.
And a method to digitize it and have it available for paying members?
By making it paying some section of the money coming in can be
directed to some kind of copyright arrangement which one could possiby
work out.
Again.... just an idea, will have lots of feasability study to do.
Regards,
Ritu
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
> On May 20, 8:31 am, Narsingh <ndagnis...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I am in a similar situation, my children don't speak urdu/hindi. In
> UK and USA the new generation will only speak English.
Why do you say that? I belong to the "new generation", and I suspect
that there are significant numbers like me who speak languages from
the subcontinent.
Sanjeev
Neha Desai
Sanjeev,
Surely you know you are one of the very few "new generation" children
who not only listens to old Indian music but also sings it so well.
Definitely not a significant number or even percentage.
You are totally an exception.
I totally relate to the valid worries Mr. Ahmad has.
--
Neha
Neha Desai
> I think such sites should be in India/Pakistan, where the present
> young generation would move on to better film singers if such music
> was available. Perhaps a web site like Surjit's will provide such an
> opportunity. But your point is valid. This collection should be
> stored some where safe; but not in USA or UK in my opinion.
This I dont agree with.
--
Neha
Neha Desai
Not too big, not too ambitious, neither naive nor impossible!
Exciting, YES!!!
--
Neha
Narsingh
university (or a research institute) would be used primarily for
scholarly purpose. Surely, one can find material for one or two Ph.D.
theses. The gradual evolution of the music, lyrics, orchestration,
singers, recording techniques, etc. How the music transformed from a
classical basis to folk music to western style. How the taste of
listeners changed over times.
I wonder if the National Film Archives of India might be interested in
such an archive.
Dear Sanjeev ji, you are an exception. Good for you. I am married to a
Canadian girl who does not speak any Indian language, lived in a
neighborhood where there were no Indian families, and the kids went to
elementary schools where there were no children of Indian families. It
is difficult for the kids to learn Indian language in such
surroundings and circumstances.
Narsingh
surjit singh
> It was my hope that the music archive in an American/Canadian
> university (or a research institute) would be used primarily for
> scholarly purpose. Surely, one can find material for one or two Ph.D.
> theses. The gradual evolution of the music, lyrics, orchestration,
> singers, recording techniques, etc. How the music transformed from a
> classical basis to folk music to western style. How the taste of
> listeners changed over times.
I would say dozens of Ph. Ds.
If the songs are archived as 128 mp3s, you can fit about 3,000 on dual
layer DVD as data. So lots of people can have copies and carry them
around!
Real question is what to do about all those Records and tapes. I just
give them away. I don't knwo what to do with them. I don't thing even
the museums and universities will take them because of storage
requirements.
Chetan Vinchhi
You can do a PhD on anything. Perhaps even what you can do a PhD on :)
> If the songs are archived as 128 mp3s, you can fit about 3,000 on dual
> layer DVD as data. So lots of people can have copies and carry them
> around!
True, but this is not really an archive.
> Real question is what to do about all those Records and tapes. I just
> give them away. I don't knwo what to do with them. I don't thing even
> the museums and universities will take them because of storage
> requirements.
This is a real problem. I know you give them away in a well-meaning
fashion, but the importance of the original (as close to source as
possible) media for the purposes of archival is often ignored. The
general idea seems to be that once the song/video is digitized the
tape is dispensible. Even at the highest resolutions and without
compression, this is questionable. With compression, there is no doubt
this is wrong.
C
Chetan Vinchhi
>
> NGO... that part of your post just popped out and struck me as a
> brilliant idea Chetan. I am probably going a little on a tangent,
> however I was wondering, cannot we not establish some sort of
> organisation that can do precisely this?.
That is what I had in mind. I would stress on the need to establish
one rather than using an existing one.
> Are there any NGO's of these kinds that we can attach to? Can we setup
> our own? What about funding? Who could fund that kind of effort. I am
> quite sure it will not survive only on music lovers' contributions.
You are right. Funding may be tricky. Perhaps a combination of govt.
and private (an arts endowment or something). First step is to
establish what kind of funding is needed, make a "business case" and
approach people/organizations to find out what can be done.
> Maybe
> one can work out arrangements with the music companies to see if
> copyright issues can be negotiated to some degree?
This is a thought. But may be difficult to swing, given HMV's
reputation. Still worth a shot if there are channels.
C
Chetan Vinchhi
>
> Sorry to follow-up on my own mail. I just saw the link KCP had sent. I
> was also thinking, there could be a tie-up with National Film Archives
> or some such other archival organisation like the one KCP pointed out.
Haven't seen that link. Film archives will not work since music
archiving is not on their primary charter. It can be used as a model
if government undertakes such an effort. The model may need
improvements though :)
C
indigene
I have always believed that films and music are a social asset, and
they flourish best when nurtured and patronized in an open and social
platform. I am planning to build one for which many in the group have
given some valuable inputs. Any artist will be able to upload songs
under the Creative Commons attributes and at the same time benefit
monetarily should there be any commercial use of the digital song
either through streaming or online sale.
I wonder if many here will agree with me that the bigger threat to
artists (and not music labels) is obscurity and not privacy.
The best way in the interim, I can suggest is to put your digital
copies on WikiCommons (part of Wikimedia, that runs the wikipedia)
which is a world wide repository of digital media available to the
general public. This is safe and the best way your work is remembered
globally.
Warm regards
kcp
> Film archives will not work since music
> archiving is not on their primary charter.
When I spoke in details with the authorities in Dec 2006, I came to
know that there is MINIMUM that our government is doing, even on their
primary charter !! It was shocking for me. I could see that within
years the enthusiasm of the staff there will die down ( I have met
many many die-hard archive loving staff ). For example there is only
one expert on handling their screening in their theatre. I have seen
myself in the screening room, how difficult and with how much care the
incharge , puts on the reels and handles the screening equipment. I
asked him - what happens when he retires ? He answered that the reels
screening will stop !! I have seen so many rare films there, all alone
in the theatre many times. I am really indebted to the archives and
sad that our idiotic govt is doing nothing about it. Its a goldmine
( films , magazines , articles, posters, etc ) that is about to
perish.
kcp
Ahmad
This is the work that All India Radio should be doing. They have the
best recorded material with scratch free sound and a huge Archive. A
small team can put all this material on Hard Disc drive at best
quality.
This can then be down loaded on to CD's.
The Copyright issue brings us back to square one.
However there is no problem if AIR are leaned upon / urged to devote
1/2 to 1 hour a day to broadcast music from this era every day from
Delhi / Bombay simultaneously. This will bring the great heritage to
the whole population in India and educate its young as to what good
vocal and film music was in this era 1930 -1965.
The worldwide audience is well served by Surgit's web site. Ahmad
surjit singh
> On May 21, 10:39 am, Chetan Vinchhi <vinc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Film archives will not work since music
> > archiving is not on their primary charter.
>
> When I spoke in details with the authorities in Dec 2006, I came to
> know that there is MINIMUM that our government is doing, even on their
> primary charter !! It was shocking for me. I could see that within
> years the enthusiasm of the staff there will die down ( I have met
> many many die-hard archive loving staff ). For example there is only
> one expert on handling their screening in their theatre. I have seen
> myself in the screening room, how difficult and with how much care the
> incharge , puts on the reels and handles the screening equipment. I
> asked him - what happens when he retires ? He answered that the reels
> screening will stop !! I have seen so many rare films there, all alone
I am surprised that they are screening rare material thereby
decreasing its life. Thye should have made VCDs by now and playing
only those.
This brings me back to Chetan. If we are going to archive the records,
we have to decide not to play them except on rare occasions. Also we
have to save many record players, their spare parts, their technical
repair manuals, their instruction manuals, else we will have boxes
full of records just lying there. For regular playing we have to use
some other method; I am OK with 128 mp3. In fact most of the world now
is OK with that.
Before you go into the quality of mp3, let me mention that when
records first came, the purists were against them because they said
that nothing can match live performance. But mango janta did not care
and bought Enrico Caruso's records by the ton! History has repeated
itself many times all the way up to IPOD!
indigene
new state-of-the-art archiving facility on Baner Road, Pune which is
getting ready. This will tremendously increase their archiving
capability.
Writing to Sashidharan might help. As I know him, he is always keen
for adding more to the archives.
Regards
kcp
> I am surprised that they are screening rare material thereby
> decreasing its life. Thye should have made VCDs by now and playing
> only those
I am sure that they have the facility of converting to VHS format and
they already do that. But there are hundreds and thousands of spools
lying and one has to really be serious about it.
Kcp
kcp
indigene wrote:
> Mr Sashidharan, the present director at National Archives, showed me a
> new state-of-the-art archiving facility on Baner Road, Pune which is
> getting ready. This will tremendously increase their archiving
> capability.
That's good news. Indeed Sashidharan was a wonderful person to talk
with. Great that he has convinced the upper level to do something for
the archives.
Will they also do something on the magazines and posters?
And yes it is a safe place to keep the music archive. They do not
distribute movies,etc ( to general public i.e. ;) ) so no copyright
problems
Kcp
Chetan Vinchhi
> we have to decide not to play them except on rare occasions. Also we
> have to save many record players, their spare parts, their technical
> repair manuals, their instruction manuals, else we will have boxes
> full of records just lying there. For regular playing we have to use
> some other method; I am OK with 128 mp3. In fact most of the world now
> is OK with that.
This is part of the problem with setting up a real archive, in
addition to the storage issues. I agree about mp3s for regular access,
documentation/databasing purposes. There could be a middle ground
where adequate (okay, I know we need to define this) restoration,
uncompressed digitization and redundancy efforts have been put in
before ceasing to care for the original media. The problem there is
that the above processes are expensive and time-consuming and we need
to address the problem of preserving the media until this is
completed! And I would argue that for the very rare material (one-of-a-
kind records and so on) the original must be preserved aggressively.
> Before you go into the quality of mp3, let me mention that when
> records first came, the purists were against them because they said
> that nothing can match live performance. But mango janta did not care
> and bought Enrico Caruso's records by the ton! History has repeated
> itself many times all the way up to IPOD!
Getting rid of the original media is like executing all musicians once
recording technology was available. Count me among the neo-purists if
you will!
C
ps - the iPod generation seems to be a bunch of, um, tin-eared
philistines :) iPod-cellphone-digicams era is the only one in history
where a marked degradation in quality has been widely endorsed by the
general public!
surjit singh
> On May 21, 11:06 pm, surjit singh <surjitsi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > This brings me back to Chetan. If we are going to archive the records,
> > we have to decide not to play them except on rare occasions. Also we
> > have to save many record players, their spare parts, their technical
> > repair manuals, their instruction manuals, else we will have boxes
> > full of records just lying there. For regular playing we have to use
> > some other method; I am OK with 128 mp3. In fact most of the world now
> > is OK with that.
>
> This is part of the problem with setting up a real archive, in
> addition to the storage issues. I agree about mp3s for regular access,
> documentation/databasing purposes. There could be a middle ground
> where adequate (okay, I know we need to define this) restoration,
> uncompressed digitization and redundancy efforts have been put in
Uncomressed digitization is perfect.
> before ceasing to care for the original media. The problem there is
> that the above processes are expensive and time-consuming and we need
> to address the problem of preserving the media until this is
> completed! And I would argue that for the very rare material (one-of-a-
> kind records and so on) the original must be preserved aggressively.
>
> > Before you go into the quality of mp3, let me mention that when
> > records first came, the purists were against them because they said
> > that nothing can match live performance. But mango janta did not care
> > and bought Enrico Caruso's records by the ton! History has repeated
> > itself many times all the way up to IPOD!
>
> Getting rid of the original media is like executing all musicians once
> recording technology was available. Count me among the neo-purists if
I am not against it, but am trying to point out the obvious
difficulties in doing so.
> you will!
>
> C
>
> ps - the iPod generation seems to be a bunch of, um, tin-eared
> philistines :) iPod-cellphone-digicams era is the only one in history
> where a marked degradation in quality has been widely endorsed by the
> general public!
As I said earlier, it happened during all transitions. When tapes
came, record lovers declared, 'all is lost'. But people bought and
used pocketbook-sized tape players by the millions. [I have many
friends today who insist that tape 'men wo baat kahaaN jo record men
hai'. I would like to blindfold them and play same 10 songs in random
order from tape and records and see if they can tell the difference!].
Same thing when CDs came. Finallly, when compression came, people
argued endlessly (but not uselessly) whether 96 or 192 or 384 is the
best! Surprisingly, many people (I won't name names, there are a few
RMIMers among them!) are quite happy with my threadbare (20 kbps)
uploads.
indigene
they get from CBFC. As you are aware that the cinematograph act does
not mandate a producer to send a copy of film and related material to
NFAI. So most material is handed over to NFAI by CBFC after almost 2-3
years of film certification.
They also have a telecine machine which digitizes films but NFAI only
does it if producer foots half the bill and agrees for the
digitisation. So whats eventually happened is that the machine is
underutilised because many producers won't pay. NFAI can still
digitise it bearing the full cost and the IB Ministry is also keen but
damn its the copyright and where does one track producers of old
films!
Anyway, I recently met Vinayak Azaad, the civil services officer on
deputation at Mumbai CBFC. Its an overloaded organisation - almost 10
films are certified everyday. They have a lot of films that are only
on celluloid, and are also keen that these films are digitised at
NFAI.
Should you want to get in touch with NFAI: K. S. Sasidharan, Director,
Tele: Off: 020-25652259 Email: shankars...@vsnl.net ,
nf...@vsnl.net
indigene
Are you talking about the Saturday evening screening? I wanted to take
an annual subscription but apparently they only do that in December.
What are the movies they display? Don't the students at FTII across
the road drop in to watch?
Regards
Kali Hawa
Why shouldn't we allow natural whithering away of songs!
If we could hear Tansen today, it is quite possible that he was no
better than Bhimsen Joshi or BaRe Ghulam Ali Khan etc. Let the legends
live on........ We must keep space for new creativity and let art live
its natural life only.
Asif
> NFAI is archiving songs, posters, scripts and all film material that
> they get from CBFC. As you are aware that the cinematograph act does
> not mandate a producer to send a copy of film and related material to
> NFAI. So most material is handed over to NFAI by CBFC after almost 2-3
> years of film certification.
>
> They also have a telecine machine which digitizes films but NFAI only
> does it if producer foots half the bill and agrees for the
> digitisation. So whats eventually happened is that the machine is
> underutilised because many producers won't pay. NFAI can still
> digitise it bearing the full cost and the IB Ministry is also keen but
> damn its the copyright and where does one track producers of old
> films!
>
> Anyway, I recently met Vinayak Azaad, the civil services officer on
> deputation at Mumbai CBFC. Its an overloaded organisation - almost 10
> films are certified everyday. They have a lot of films that are only
> on celluloid, and are also keen that these films are digitised at
> NFAI.
>
> Should you want to get in touch with NFAI: K. S. Sasidharan, Director,
> n...@vsnl.net
Does NFAI have in archive a once popular Urdu-language film magazine
called Shama? Do they have or plan to have all those film magazines
on CD-ROM too and make their copies available to public for a fee?
Asif
kcp
paying money. Even if you are the only person in the theatre!
Kcp
Jay
>
> - Show quoted text -
Please DO NOT TRUST NCPA...repeat DO NOT TRUST NCPA !
Ask me why?
I have seen with my own eyes their library:
In the first place; there are NIL archives as regards to CINE
MUSIC...a big ZERO
Would you be interested still?
Then , you would ask - what else is archived in NCPA?
Yes; NCPA is a posh archival library, air-conditioned....all perfect
that way.
Only houses classical music , various musical instruments and plenty
of books on classical music ..Indian as well as Western
Film Music : NIL
Jay
Are you ready to put in your money for that?
Jay
24/5
Ahmad
You have reminded me of Tansen. A couple of years ago there was a
film on British TV, called Tansen, or Mughle-Azam, set in the Court of
Emperor Akbar. K L Saigal, alias Tansen sings a song "Dia
Jalao ....";
by his sheer singing power the lights on the Chandeliers light up.
Also some musical instruments start playing by themselves. Are you
suggesting that this may not have happened !
Also Suraya had Tansen as her love interest in this film. I wonder
what emperor Akbar thought of this ! Ahmad
Jay
Ahmedji:
You are senior citizen just like me...location could be anywhere as
long as you / I exist.
Do not live in a fantasy world...it does'nt help you,me or like us.
Try to LIVE 'inbetween the fantasy-n-reality with all your 5 senses +
the 6th well honed.Whether Tansen (real or in film) was successful or
not, what difference does it make to you,I or anyone. ITS the CINE
MUSIC of the 30s/40s/50s-decades that WE ALL MUSIC LOVERS are
interested in. Thats the point of discussion....means-n-ways of
preservation-cum-accessibility for now-n-posterity.
The IDEA is very good indeed...but not a practibility considering even
the fact that plenty of funds are at disposal. Ask me why? There is
only one answer.
EVERYTHING has to PERISH sonner or later in the long run. This is HIS
LAW. Only LOVE survives...despite all sincere positive
attempts ...any no.of times.
Take my case, for instance:
Whatever quantity of 78s are there in my library which continues to
INCREASE day-by-day ,I don't bother the outcome. I pay HUGE AMOUNTS to
accomplish my objectives....for the LOVE-n-PASSION for cine music.
Even if NO BODY comes to my sessions, I don't bother. I just do my
DUTY of keeping the music room cleaning.-n-washing the both the rooms
and bath/toilet PERSONALLY with my own hands for the SUNDAY sessions
with only one thought in mind. My bhaktas must be made comfortable in
every possible manner so that they enjoy the MUSIC and have
interesting interaction.
Did you notice that PASSION surging in my system? From where does this
BOUNTIFUL ENERGY come ? In a day , I am climbing 80 steps about six to
seven times...up-n-down.
I very well know I am going to perish sooner if not later. Let me
enjoy the the PRESENT in its existence...whatever it may be in MUSIC.
After my EXIT, why should I bother about my library...let it go to
HELL.Let it be disposed off in junk or even broken to a million bits.
I just don't bother since I don't EXIST.
As long as I am living , I will continue to SERVE in everty possible
way with LOVE to whichever 'bhakt' comes to my door FREE and with
LOVE. At the end of the sessions, I introduce to him some NEW film
songs from the OLD or some new MD or some new voices from the old,
hitherto unknown on a one2one basis , for example. I PROVE to him/her
by making them HEAR the song and provide the necessary details related
thereto. In the process,, even if ONE MUSIC BHAKT is ENLIGHTENED, my
PURPOSE in LIFE is accomplished. MY bhakt is thrilled and so am I...
and at he end of the DAY before retiring to bed, I lay
everything ...just everything that I may have gained or lost
physically,mentally,materially + the entire BCSP library + myself at
HIS ALTAR with LOVE.
The bottom line:
NOTHING IS MINE...whatever it may be. I am only a SEWAK. I seek
nothing in RETURN !!
Jay
24/5
Narsingh
> I very well know I am going to perish sooner if not later. Let me
> enjoy the the PRESENT in its existence...whatever it may be in MUSIC.
> After my EXIT, why should I bother about my library...let it go to
> HELL.Let it be disposed off in junk or even broken to a million bits.
> I just don't bother since I don't EXIST.
>
I am surprised to find that while you love your music, you don't care
what happens to it once you are gone (as we all shall). This was
precisely my point in putting up this post. I don't think we should
allow our collection, as you put it, "to be disposed off in junk or
even broken to a million bits." I feel that you should plan the fate
of your collection a bit more aggressively. A centralized archive
somewhere will be the best place for your (and every one else's)
collection. Of course duplicate copies could be discarded.
Narsingh
surjit singh
I had a chat with Jay a few days ago. To his credit, I must say that,
in talking, he is exactly the same as he is in writing!
I talked to him about his legacy and our heritage, he basically said
that he will collect and collect and then pass away without caring
about what happens afterwards.
> Narsingh
Ahmad
> Ahmedji:
> You are senior citizen just like me...location could be anywhere as
> long as you / I exist.
>
> Do not live in a fantasy world...it does'nt help you,me or like us.
> Try to LIVE 'inbetween the fantasy-n-reality with all your 5 senses +
> the 6th well honed.Whether Tansen (real or in film) was successful or
> not, what difference does it make to you,I or anyone. ITS the CINE
> MUSIC of the 30s/40s/50s-decades that WE ALL MUSIC LOVERS are
> interested in. Thats the point of discussion....means-n-ways of
> preservation-cum-accessibility for now-n-posterity.
Hello Jay, Thanks for your views. As a music lover like yourself, I
understand what you are saying. I do not know how big your collection
is. I only collect what I really like; so in the true sense I am not
a collector.
People like us are lucky and blessed. Not everybody appreciates
music, and some never progress beyond catchy tunes and do not learn
what good singing is. I believe that those who like music, go through
a long process of learning. Total listening hours come in to it and
it is a lengthy process.
At the age of 12 nobody could make me believe that Kamla Jharia was a
good singer, although my grand father told me so. It took many years
of listening to good singers to realise how good a singer Kamla Jharia
was.
You can not make anybody appreciate what you like. It has to come by
itself, and here we have some disagreement.
However it is our passion and music lovers are lucky to have this
talent or gift.
What we do with our lifetimes collection which is acquired at cost and
with labour ! (I bought my first 78 RPM records with my pocket money;
my father was not musical, so was not interested).
I have given my opinion that I am converting my Cassette collection of
my favourite music on to CD's without compression, and I would suggest
that you do the same as it reduces storage requirements. I am sure
that you would get help if you decide to follow this route.
"Ghar yeh tera sada na mera haye - raat do raat ka basera haye".
I think this is a poetic license. We have a lot of music listening to
do yet. Regards. Ahmad
Jay
No..No.. No...Ahmedji. I differ radically.
NOTHING..repeat NOTHING is MINE or anybody's.
At this point, let me illustrate Tamil poet/lyricist late Kannadasan
of the 50s/60s decade who died some years ago. Being a Tamilian, I
myself cannot read-n-write Tamil ! But I can follow simple spoken
Tamil...not the rich Tamil.
This Kannadasan has written thousands of film songs and I pick up one
particular number from the film: THIRUVILAYADAL from the 60s. It was a
mythological film.. a huge blockbuster with music by veteran
K.V.Mahadevan. In this film, there is a solo number sung by popular
playback singer T.M.Sounderrajan: Paattum naa ney, Bhaavamum naa ney,
Paatu vaikarrum naa ney...
Meaning: 'I' am the SONG; "i" am the EMOTION(s); & 'I' am the one who
MAKES you SING...
You get my point now!
Human INTELLIGENCE of any standard / degree will work only to a
certain extent. In the final run, it has to PERISH...just
PERISH...whether you like it or not. Thats the TRUTH.
If at all X, Y or Z is very passionate of cine music , HE / SHE will
have to TOIL / LABOUR for that in their individual capacities, with
perseverance and FAITH ..facing numerous hurdles of various types
( unlike armchair listening !)
So, I reject your views outright.
Jay
25/5
Kali Hawa
> film on British TV, called Tansen, or Mughle-Azam, set in the Court of
> Emperor Akbar. K L Saigal, alias Tansen sings a song "Dia
> Jalao ....";
> by his sheer singing power the lights on the Chandeliers light up.
> Also some musical instruments start playing by themselves. Are you
> suggesting that this may not have happened !
> Also Suraya had Tansen as her love interest in this film. I wonder
> what emperor Akbar thought of this ! Ahmad
Do you seriously believe in legends?
In Rig Veda, the only God is Indra, the heavy duty Hindu Gods Brahma,
Vishnu & Mahesh came into being roughly 1000 years later.
Thats what legends are.
Ahmad
Hello, No, I was just joking. I don't have any faith in religions
either, which are perhaps legends as well. Ahmad
Ahmad
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thank you. I have nothing more to say to you. Ahmad
Jay
>
> - Show quoted text -
This refers to the Tamil film song of Kannadasan I had mentioned in my
earlier post.
Reverting back to Hindi cine music , a similar analogy I would like to
illustrate in the voice of Snehal Bhatkar of his own music from
Prabhat's TUKARAM ('49)
Penned by Narendra Sharma:
Naad bana Narayan, Panduranga
Para-brahma baney punha,
Bane punha Raag-Ranga.
Now you all educated and intelligent hightech RMIMers:
Tell me whats the difference between Kannadasan's Tamil song..the
pallavi & this Hindi pallavi of Narendra Sharma !
Let me see everyone's evaluation and assessment
Jay
25/5
Abhay Jain
"surjit singh" <surji...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:32a10275-33c6-4830...@b5g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
> On May 21, 9:30 pm, Chetan Vinchhi <vinc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On May 21, 11:06 pm, surjit singh <surjitsi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > This brings me back to Chetan. If we are going to archive the records,
>> > we have to decide not to play them except on rare occasions. Also we
>> > have to save many record players, their spare parts, their technical
>> > repair manuals, their instruction manuals, else we will have boxes
>> > full of records just lying there. For regular playing we have to use
>> > some other method; I am OK with 128 mp3. In fact most of the world now
>> > is OK with that.
>>
>> This is part of the problem with setting up a real archive, in
>> addition to the storage issues. I agree about mp3s for regular access,
>> documentation/databasing purposes. There could be a middle ground
>> where adequate (okay, I know we need to define this) restoration,
>> uncompressed digitization and redundancy efforts have been put in
>
> Uncomressed digitization is perfect.
>
Better yet, lossless compression such as FLAC from open source, Monkey's
Audio, etc.
AJ
Abhay Jain
"Ahmad" <mah...@talktalk.net> wrote in message
news:0695d103-0514-4ff6...@z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> I am in a similar situation, my children don't speak urdu/hindi. In
> UK and USA the new generation will only speak English.
>I think such sites should be in India/Pakistan, where the present
>young generation would move on to better film singers if such music
>was available. Perhaps a web site like Surjit's will provide such an
>opportunity. But your point is valid. This collection should be
>stored some where safe; but not in USA or UK in my opinion.
>The short shelf life of CD-R is a bit worrying. Chetan has valid
>points. Ahmad
Today's kids even in India do not speak much Hindi. They mostly
speak English. Just look at film stars. They struggle to sepak
Hindi, will speak only in English. All award ceremonies are in English.
Nothing wrong with it. Just making a point of not assuming that India
would be any better place for preserving music.
AJ
Ahmad
> "Ahmad" <mahm...@talktalk.net> wrote in message
Yes, a valid observation, but in India and Pakistan they understand
urdu/hindi and love their music.
We are talking about more than a Billion people. The recent loss in
quality of music is observed by the young. Hence the need to provide
access to the music of golden past. Ahmad