Forgotton + Non hindi words in hindi songs
Prakash Pradhan
my mind but preferred to write separately due to the other added
subject:
Song 1. Aaj mane -----(don't remember the words) ---- sawan ka mausam
suhana ho, o,o, Sawan ka mausam suhana,
dawreki jara dhik ti na dhin, dawre ki jara dhik ti na (are the words
correct?)
(by lata??) the song sounds like bhairawi
Song 2. ye duniya rup ki chor, bachale muze babu, bachale muze babu,
bachale muze babu re. Ye duniya --- etc etc.
next line are in marathi in the song:
ek maratha sahab aala, aati hai sab gaDbaD zala,
(aasa kay tassa kay) x 2, gaDbad gaDbad----
Chatak chandani ikade ye jara ikade ye,
gulabachya fula jara ikade ye --- thus goes the song fading in my
memory.
Is the singer Shamshad Begum???
information on these songs will add to my old memories
another KK song is from Karodpati-
Aare bhai nikal ke aa ghar se aa ghar se
duniyaki raunak dekh phirse dekh le phir se..
Gujrathi- Kem unghechhe bhai ghanshyamji tu
marathi- Tula bhiti re kasali watate
bangali also lines but not knowing.
recent mehmood songs are - Wango -ayyayo ham galati kiya and muttukode
kauwwadi
I am sure there will be many with Panjabi words. O kudi phas gayi etc
etc.
regards,
Prakash Pradhan
Srinivas Ganti
>Prakash Pradhan <pra...@emirates.net.ae> wrote > Song 2. ye duniya rup ki
chor, bachale muze babu, bachale muze ?>babu,
> bachale muze babu re. Ye duniya --- etc etc.
> next line are in marathi in the song:
> ek maratha sahab aala, aati hai sab gaDbaD zala,
> (aasa kay tassa kay) x 2, gaDbad gaDbad----
> Chatak chandani ikade ye jara ikade ye,
> gulabachya fula jara ikade ye --- thus goes the song fading in my
> memory.
> Is the singer Shamshad Begum???
Yes the singer is Shamshad Begum. Its from the movie Shabnam(1949). MD is
SDB.
This song has Bengali, Gujarati, Tamil and Punjabi lines in addition to
Hindi and Marathi.
This song is available online at
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/music/s/?q=roop%20ki%20chor&c=0303
Another famous song that has lines of different languages is "angrezii men
kehate
hai.n ke I love you". Iits from Khuddar stg. Amitabh. MD is Rajesh Roshan.
sg.
Anindya
> Another famous song that has lines of different languages is "angrezii men
> kehate
> hai.n ke I love you". Iits from Khuddar stg. Amitabh. MD is Rajesh Roshan.
and, in case post-50s/60s references are not acceptable, here's one
from the 50s:
Kahaa.n chalii terii galii - KK, Asha from Jal Saaz (N Dutta).
This song had 3 or 4 stanzas, each in a different Indian language,
interspersed with the main Hindi wordings - Konkani, Bengali, Marathi,
Tamil.
Another song from the same movie also had a Konkani-sounding sentence
(which, I suspect, is gibberish) thrown around prominently, in the
song:
Arra ra ra ra ra toDo na dil bekaraar ko, maan jaao.n ji, chhoDo ye
dillagi
le bhi lo pehla tohfa ye pyar ka....(then)
aisa karun titar bitar maisa karun ko...
Several KK songs had Bengali nonsense rhymes etc. liberally thrown in.
Probably more to do with impromptu adlibbing by KK, than the way the
MDs or lyricists designed them to be.
Anindya
Prakash Pradhan
> >Prakash Pradhan <pra...@emirates.net.ae> wrote > Song 2. ye duniya rup ki
> chor, bachale muze babu, bachale muze ?>babu,
> > bachale muze babu re. Ye duniya --- etc etc.
> >
> SDB.
> This song has Bengali, Gujarati, Tamil and Punjabi lines in addition to
> Hindi and Marathi.
> This song is available online at
>
> http://www.musicindiaonline.com/music/s/?q=roop%20ki%20chor&c=0303
>
> Another famous song that has lines of different languages is "angrezii men
> kehate
> hai.n ke I love you". Iits from Khuddar stg. Amitabh. MD is Rajesh Roshan.
>
> sg.
Thank you Srinivas ji for giving me the song 'location'. It was
pleasure listening to it after almost 50 years.
my apologies for the mistake in my posting. the KK song is from New
Delhi and not Karodpati.
Any one having luck on song no.1 info?
regards,
PDP
Cricfan
> Reading through the topic on forgotton songs, following songs came to
> my mind but preferred to write separately due to the other added
> subject:
> I am sure there will be many with Panjabi words. O kudi phas gayi etc
> etc.
>
> regards,
> Prakash Pradhan
Legend has it that once while sipping tea at a small Bombay café
Shankar,Jaikishan and Shailendra heard the café owner keep on calling
out to one of his waiters in Telugu and that's how "Ramayya
Vastavayya" began...
But it's hardly a forgotten song :-)
Cheers
Arun
GGSSANDHU
suhaanaa... is by Lata Mangeshkar & chorus from the film BAADAL (1951), the MDs
being Shankar-Jaikishan. It is penned by Shailendra.
The tracks are available on an EMI CD along with HALAAKU(1956).
Gurcharan Sandhu
Malini
<snipped>
> Any one having luck on song no.1 info?
>
>song 1. Aaj mane -----(don't remember the words) ---- sawan ka mausam
>suhana ho, o,o, Sawan ka mausam suhana,
>dawreki jara dhik ti na dhin, dawre ki jara dhik ti na (are the words
>correct?)
> (by lata??) the song sounds like bhairawi
I think you are referring to the song from Badal here starring
Premnath and Madhubala. This song (a title song ?) however is
picturized on another artist, the song goes like this :
aaj maane na moraa jiyaa, Thumak Thumak naache
saavan kaa mausam suhaanaa
aaj aaye umang bhare rang bhare baadal
laaye Khushi kaa taraanaa
ho.. saavan kaa mausam suhaana
Not sure how you arrived at the second line 'dawreki....'.
I didn't find this song in ISB or Latanjali or Geetanjali. I'll post
the lyrics as soon as I get a chance to listen to the song at home.
-Malini
-Malini
Sudhir Kakar
============================
Aaj Maaane Na Mora Jiya ... / BADAL / Shankar Jaikishan / Lata + Chorus
Available on: CD or Tape / Film (with Halaku / also by: S.J.
Are Bhai Nikal Ke Aa Ghar Se / New Delhi (not Krorepati) / Kishore
Kumar / also by: S.J. / Available on: CD and Tape / Film
Sudhir
---------------------------
pra...@emirates.net.ae (Prakash Pradhan) wrote in message >
> Song 1. Aaj mane -----(don't remember the words) ---- sawan ka mausam
> suhana ho, o,o, Sawan ka mausam suhana,
> dawreki jara dhik ti na dhin, dawre ki jara dhik ti na (are the words
> correct?)
> (by lata??) the song sounds like bhairawi
>
>
Surajit A. Bose
(IIRC), sung by Lata--she sounds amazingly different.
"mai.n baa.ngaalii chhokaraa karuu.N pyaar ko namaskaaram" from RAAGINI,
MD OPN, sung by Kishore and Asha; Kishore throws in a couple Bengali
lines here and there ("shokhii go, tomaay kamon kore paabo"; "morii
jaaii, morii jaaii").
"ek din, tum bahut ba.De banoge ek din" from ANKHIYON KE JHAROKON SE, MD
and lyrics Ravindra Jain, singers Hemlata and Shailendra Singh. Lots of
English words, including the ungrammatical "How I can, tell me how I
can."
"chhuk\-chhuk chhak\-chhak ##Bombay## se ##Baroda## tak" from RAFOO
CHAKKAR, MD KA, lyrics Gulshan Bawra, with Asha going "Everybody!" at
one point in a most fetching manner, and Usha and Asha trading "Good
luck? Good luck!" at the end. Grrreat song!!!!
I dimly remember a song "sonaa kare jhilamil jhilamil, ruupaa ha.Nse
aise khil khil" from PAHELI, forget who the MD and lyrist are, possibly
Ravindra Jain; singers are Hemlata and Suresh Wadkar. There's a line
therein: "brishTi pa.De Taakur Tukur". I do not know whether "brishTi"
is a Hindi word....I have not come across it elsewhere in Hindi. It is
the Bengali word for rain.
Tangent: I have this pal who derives great enjoyment from deliberately
misinterpreting words in songs as though they were in another language.
For example: A boy and a girl were sitting together on a staircase.
Their eyes meet, and suddenly the staircase turns into a desert. What
song is this? The answer, of course:
aa.Nkho.n hii aa.Nkho.n me.n ishaaraa ho gayaa
baiThe baiThe jiine kaa sahaaraa ho gayaa
--"jinaa" is the Marathi word for staircase, and Sahara, as we all know,
is a desert.
Or the whole pig-crocodile romance, y'know, where the musical pig waits
for the crocodile and sings "chaa.Nd phir nikalaa, magar tum na aae",
and then, as the crocodile prepares to eat the pig up, the pig sings,
"aaj kii raat mere dil kii salaamii le le." Get it? Magar? Salami?
Sorry....couldn't resist.
-s
Surma Bhopali
* "Aanke chali baanke chali" (mentioned in an earlier post), Namkeen/
Gulzar/ RDB?/ Asha+?
- contains the phrase "paanta bhaate taatkaa begun poraa"(Bengali)
* "Sonaa kare jhilmil jhilmil, Roopaa hanse kaise khil khil", Paheli/
Ravindra Jain/ Ravindra Jain/ Suresh+Hemlata
- contains the phrase "brishti pore taapur tupur" (Bengali)
* "Are raftaa raftaa dekho aankh meri ladi hai", Kahani Kismat Ki/
Rajinder Krishan/ Kalyanji-Anandji/ Kishore
- contains "Pandobaa porgi fasli", "Aga ye jawad ye laaju nako"
(Marathi)
Ket...@att.net
nanhaf...@yahoo.co.in says...
>* "Sonaa kare jhilmil jhilmil, Roopaa hanse kaise khil khil", Paheli/
>Ravindra Jain/ Ravindra Jain/ Suresh+Hemlata
> - contains the phrase "brishti pore taapur tupur" (Bengali)
What do "taapur" and "tupur" mean? I ask considering they are names of twins who
act in commercials and Indie pop videos.
Ketan
Anindya
> mhaare galii maa aavjo re, suurat waalaa seThiyaa" from NAMUNA, MD CR
> (IIRC), sung by Lata--she sounds amazingly different.
>
> "mai.n baa.ngaalii chhokaraa karuu.N pyaar ko namaskaaram" from RAAGINI,
> MD OPN, sung by Kishore and Asha; Kishore throws in a couple Bengali
> lines here and there ("shokhii go, tomaay kamon kore paabo"; "morii
> jaaii, morii jaaii").
btw, do you remember this ancient KK song (solo, IIRC), which has this
sentence - Keno bhaaben awkaaroney Bongshibabu re.. (heard it once on
radio, decades back).
will the Jaal Saaz song (Kahaa.n chali terii gali) be the one with the
longest stretch of Bengali words in a Hindi song?
KK:
Raadhey..o Raadhey...oikhaaney d.naaDaiya aachho keno
Maan kawro-go
Tomar bawrno moshi [lyrics don't sound right here, somehow]
mukho shoshi keno raahu graashey go
Asha:
Thhaak thhaak thhaak doorey kaachhey aiyshona
Tomaar rawng kaalo mukho kaalo
Kaalo mukhey haaiyshona...
several more KK songs, of course. Ek chaturnaar (PaDosan), for
instance.
> Tangent: I have this pal who derives great enjoyment from deliberately
> misinterpreting words in songs as though they were in another language.
> For example:
how about some more?
Desdemona to Othelo: Tum aa gaye ho, MOOR aa gayaa hai
These days, my breadloaf, doesn't fall on the ground anymore
(Aaj kal paao zamee.n pe nahi paDte mere)
Anindya
Abhay Phadnis
> In article <622ae881.02021...@posting.google.com>,
> nanhaf...@yahoo.co.in says...
>
> >* "Sonaa kare jhilmil jhilmil, Roopaa hanse kaise khil khil", Paheli/
> >Ravindra Jain/ Ravindra Jain/ Suresh+Hemlata
> > - contains the phrase "brishti pore taapur tupur" (Bengali)
I have always heard it as "vR^ishTii kare Taapur Tipur", which makes sense
in Hindi: I assumed the "Taapur Tipur" bit was just onomatopoeic usage for
the sounds of raindrops. Are you sure the words are in Bengali?
Warm regards,
Abhay
Prakash Pradhan
> Premnath and Madhubala. This song (a title song ?) however is
> picturized on another artist, the song goes like this :
> aaj maane na moraa jiyaa, Thumak Thumak naache
> saavan kaa mausam suhaanaa
> aaj aaye umang bhare rang bhare baadal
> laaye Khushi kaa taraanaa
> ho.. saavan kaa mausam suhaana
>
> Not sure how you arrived at the second line 'dawreki....'.
> I didn't find this song in ISB or Latanjali or Geetanjali. I'll post
> the lyrics as soon as I get a chance to listen to the song at home.
>
> -Malini
Malini ji,
Thank you very much.
You are right about the first 2 lines and my words (dawre---) which
are now definitely wrong, come immediately AFTER these 2 lines and are
in chorus, though the words still appear to be in "invented" language.
I called my friend here, he has this song and played it for me over
phone.
Thanks for you too dear Mr. Sandhu.
Mr. Bose, Mr. Anindya, In this world of seriousness, war and war of
words (speaking for myself), the humour presented by both of you was
most welcome. I enjoyed them all. Especially staircase and sahara.
I am now more than happy for getting full info on both my songs.
Regards,
Prakash Pradhan
Ritu
> English words, including the ungrammatical "How I can, tell me how I
> can."
With a very great accent as well! 'How I cane tell me how I cane'.
Wonder why they get these weird English words into Hindi songs and
worst still make people not very proficient in English to sing them!
Another very ungrammatical song was 'My heart is beating' from Julie.
It's too funny.
My heart is beating
Keeps on repeating
I'm waiting for you
Could not get cornier! Seems they've done a direct translation from
Hindi to English. Infact I found the Lagaan English song also pretty
funny. Though the pronunciations if not British were atleast correct
'Indian English' but the lyrics were pretty funny. Something about
'Roses popping their scarlet mouths offering a kiss' !!!!
> Tangent: I have this pal who derives great enjoyment from deliberately
> misinterpreting words in songs as though they were in another language.
> For example: A boy and a girl were sitting together on a staircase.
> Their eyes meet, and suddenly the staircase turns into a desert. What
> song is this? The answer, of course:
>
> aa.Nkho.n hii aa.Nkho.n me.n ishaaraa ho gayaa
> baiThe baiThe jiine kaa sahaaraa ho gayaa
>
> --"jinaa" is the Marathi word for staircase, and Sahara, as we all know,
> is a desert.
>
> Or the whole pig-crocodile romance, y'know, where the musical pig waits
> for the crocodile and sings "chaa.Nd phir nikalaa, magar tum na aae",
> and then, as the crocodile prepares to eat the pig up, the pig sings,
> "aaj kii raat mere dil kii salaamii le le." Get it? Magar? Salami?
>
> Sorry....couldn't resist.
Ha Ha ! Really Cool. Waise, as a kid I genuinely thought that the line
'Yaaron ka chalan hai ghulami dete hain haseenon ko salaami' really
meant that offering slices of salami was how grownups conducted their
romances. It pretty much appealed to my epicurean nature. The grownups
weren't so stupid afterall.
How about somemore on the same lines?
Cheers
Ritu
>
> -s
Ket...@att.net
rc0...@rediffmail.com says...
>Could not get cornier! Seems they've done a direct translation from
>Hindi to English. Infact I found the Lagaan English song also pretty
>funny. Though the pronunciations if not British were atleast correct
>'Indian English' but the lyrics were pretty funny. Something about
>'Roses popping their scarlet mouths offering a kiss' !!!!
I don't see why the lyrics are funny! If anything the idea of " a rose opening
up its petals like lips to offer a kiss" is good imagery/visualization on the
part of the lyricist, IMHO. I don't see how it is anything better/worse than :
"labh khile to mogre ke phool khilte hai kahin" from "Aap ki aakhon me kuch" by
Gulzar in GHAR.
Also if "aankhen" can have "mehakti khushboo", "zulf" can be "siyaahraat"(can
someone please correct my spelling of this word), why can't roses have scarlet
mouths?
Does it become beautiful only if it is written in Hindi/Urdu by a Sahir/Gulzar?
Ketan
Ket...@att.net
Correcting my own post :
>I don't see why the lyrics are funny! If anything the idea of " a rose opening
>up its petals like lips to offer a kiss" is good imagery/visualization on the
>part of the lyricist, IMHO. I don't see how it is anything better/worse than :
>
>"labh khile to mogre ke phool khilte hai kahin" from "Aap ki aakhon me kuch" by
^^^^^
That should he "hile"
>Gulzar in GHAR.
Ketan
Narendra Joshi
I remember one song from "Paigam", sung by Rafi and picturized on
Johny Walker:
Kaise deewali manaye hum lala - has one Marathi line:
Daata teri akkal ko "he kaay zala" - the words in "" quotes mean "Ye
kya hua" in Marathi.
Another Madhuri Dixit song (from Mahasangram ?) goes like "I love
you,prem karun chhun, zala mala prem zala".... one line in English,
Gujarathi and Marathi each... actually I take it back.. last few words
(zala mala prem zala) sound like Marathi, but, don't really mean
anything... probably a non-marathi guy trying to speak marathi will
say like that.
And, in this non-hindi-words series, "chotee ke paydaan par" following
song:
"Angrezi me kahate hai ke I love you" from Khuddar.
- Narendra
pra...@emirates.net.ae (Prakash Pradhan) wrote in message news:<1c27a2a1.02021...@posting.google.com>...
Ashok
>
>"ek din, tum bahut ba.De banoge ek din" from ANKHIYON KE JHAROKON SE, MD
>and lyrics Ravindra Jain, singers Hemlata and Shailendra Singh. Lots of
>English words, including the ungrammatical "How I can, tell me how I
>can."
>
How would you correct the grammar here?
Ashok
Neha
> Could not get cornier! Seems they've done a direct translation from
> Hindi to English. Infact I found the Lagaan English song also pretty
> funny. Though the pronunciations if not British were atleast correct
> 'Indian English' but the lyrics were pretty funny. Something about
> 'Roses popping their scarlet mouths offering a kiss' !!!!
Well..I have to disagree. I think the song is beautiful and the english
words are quite poetic..here they go...I didnt have any issues with
Vasundhara Das's english accent or singing. For a change she is
good, but with Rahman, most are:).
my heart it speaks a thousand words
i feel eternal bliss
the roses pout their scarlet mouths
like offering a kiss
no drop of rain, no glowing flame
has ever been so pure
if being in love can feel like this
then i am in love for sure...
You think these lyrics are funny? Hmm..
--
Neha
Surma Bhopali
>
> I have always heard it as "vR^ishTii kare Taapur Tipur", which makes sense
> in Hindi: I assumed the "Taapur Tipur" bit was just onomatopoeic usage for
> the sounds of raindrops. Are you sure the words are in Bengali?
>
goes; but the wordings are "Brishti pore taapur tupur" (forgive my
non-ITRAANS). It is "pore"(Rain is _falling_ taapur tupur) instead of
"kare" and "tupur" instead of "tipur". And yes they are definiltely
Bengali words.
>
> >
> > What do "taapur" and "tupur" mean? I ask considering they are names of
> twins who
> > act in commercials and Indie pop videos.
> >
> >
> > Ketan
> >
you will find many more amazing names in future. I know of an
eye-surgeon whose daughters are named "Retina" and "Cornea".
Ritu
There's nothing wrong with the metaphor of the roses having 'scarlet
mouths'(though scarlet lips would be more delicate and poetic IMO)
it's the expression that is wrong. The same thought process could have
been expressed in a better constructed sentence that brought out the
poetic elements in the image. 'Roses popping their scarlet mouths
offering a kiss' not only sounds ridiculous it paints a very funny
picture to my mind.
> Does it become beautiful only if it is written in Hindi/Urdu by a Sahir/Gulzar?
Not at all. Poetry written in any language can be beautiful but if you
try to think in Hindi and then express in English or any other
language the result is not very convincing. I for one was not
convinced either by the characterizations of some of the British in
'Lagaan' or this song sung in English (esp the style of singing and
the lyrics) though I did like the way ARR mixes the Hindi and the
English part.
However, one man's nursery rhyme is another man's poetry. So I guess
it boils down to each his own.
Cheers
Ritu
>
>
> Ketan
Ket...@att.net
nanhaf...@yahoo.co.in says...
>Bengalis do so much research in finding uncommon names for their kids,
>you will find many more amazing names in future. I know of an
>eye-surgeon whose daughters are named "Retina" and "Cornea".
Yes but Bong's also do come up with logical ones at times like "Antara" and
"Shanchari"(to keep it related to RMIM).
Ketan
Nitin Sharma
On 12 Feb 2002, Ashok wrote:
> In article <sbose-AEDC74....@news.fu-berlin.de>, sb...@saintmarys.edu says...
> >
> >English words, including the ungrammatical "How I can, tell me how I
> >can."
> >
> >-s
>
> How would you correct the grammar here?
>
May be it IS grammatically correct as is, if you follow the
"Indian English" grammar. You know, as in, "What you are doing
today?" ;-)
-nitin
Anindya
> Another very ungrammatical song was 'My heart is beating' from Julie.
> It's too funny.
> My heart is beating
> Keeps on repeating
> I'm waiting for you
>
> Could not get cornier! Seems they've done a direct translation from
> Hindi to English.
Here, the lyricist concerned is Harindranath Chattopadhyay who, apart
from being Sarojini Naidu's brother, was an amateur poet (he was
several things, actually , pretty undefined job profile!)who at least
wrote correct English, generally (from what little I've read). In this
particular case, he was probably trying to take off on the dialect of
the "Sandras from Bandra".
In a way, "My love encloses, a bunch of roses" isn't much different
from (or it could even be a clever take on) Robert Burns' (IIRC) "My
love is a red, red rose", which is regarded a classic.
>It pretty much appealed to my epicurean nature. The grownups
> weren't so stupid afterall.
(hmm, I wouldn't be too sure about that - Junior)
Anindya
Ket...@att.net
>There's nothing wrong with the metaphor of the roses having 'scarlet
>mouths'(though scarlet lips would be more delicate and poetic IMO)
>it's the expression that is wrong. The same thought process could have
>been expressed in a better constructed sentence that brought out the
>poetic elements in the image. 'Roses popping their scarlet mouths
>offering a kiss' not only sounds ridiculous it paints a very funny
>picture to my mind.
Not if you watch National Geographic/Discovery. Each ran a series that had shots
taken of everyday mundane tasks that most of us don't even think about. The
idea, I suppose was to show exactly how beautiful those mundane tasks are. One
of the images was of a rose blossoming/flowering, taken with special time-lapse
photography, and the image is exactly that of a "rose popping its scarlet
mouth". LIFE magazine even featured this series and some of the photos in it
once. So, I disagree. The lyrics neither sound nor paint a ridiculous and funny
picture to MY mind. All IMHO.
>
>>Does it become beautiful only if it is written in Hindi/Urdu by a Sahir/Gulzar?
>
>Not at all. Poetry written in any language can be beautiful but if you
>try to think in Hindi and then express in English or any other
>language the result is not very convincing. I for one was not
Assuming Sahir thought in Urdu, he seems to have done a marvellous job in
expressing "Sansaar se bhaage phirte ho" in Hindi. Very convincing too. And I am
sure if you look hard enough, you might come across a Bharat Vyas or a Neeraj
thinking in Hindi, but expressing themselves pretty well in Urdu too.
Ketan
Neha
> There's nothing wrong with the metaphor of the roses having 'scarlet
> mouths'(though scarlet lips would be more delicate and poetic IMO)
maybe but it would rhyme with 'pout' whereas 'mouth' does.
> it's the expression that is wrong. The same thought process could have
> been expressed in a better constructed sentence that brought out the
> poetic elements in the image. 'Roses popping their scarlet mouths
> offering a kiss' not only sounds ridiculous it paints a very funny
> picture to my mind.
Ritu, the word is 'pout' not 'pop'. If you keep saying 'popping' sure it
become ridiculous.... The line is a beautiful expression(and there is
nothing wrong with it or with the poetic element)..
the roses pout their scarlet mouth
isnt that a beautiful expression? Come on!! admit it:)
--
neha
Surma Bhopali
"uncommon" names whether it has a meaning or not. Music has
traditionally been one of their fortes, so many names originated from
Music. BTW, I like the name "Antara".
Surma Bhopali
> Tangent: I have this pal who derives great enjoyment from deliberately
> misinterpreting words in songs as though they were in another language.
> For example: A boy and a girl were sitting together on a staircase.
> Their eyes meet, and suddenly the staircase turns into a desert. What
> song is this? The answer, of course:
>
> aa.Nkho.n hii aa.Nkho.n me.n ishaaraa ho gayaa
> baiThe baiThe jiine kaa sahaaraa ho gayaa
>
> --"jinaa" is the Marathi word for staircase, and Sahara, as we all know,
> is a desert.
>
Dubey with this song; specially the background music.
Surma Bhopali
"Aaja meri gaadi me baith jaa". Has its equivalent in many languages.
I remember "Ye maajhyaa gaadita bas naa". Was it the Baba Sehgal?
Surajit A. Bose
andy...@hotmail.com (Anindya) wrote:
> rc0...@rediffmail.com (Ritu) wrote in message
> news:<8777cccd.02021...@posting.google.com>...
>
> > Another very ungrammatical song was 'My heart is beating' from Julie.
> > It's too funny.
> > My heart is beating
> > Keeps on repeating
> > I'm waiting for you
> >
> > Could not get cornier!
> Here, the lyricist concerned is Harindranath Chattopadhyay who, apart
> from being Sarojini Naidu's brother, was an amateur poet
He had to be. He hadn't the talent to turn pro.
> several things, actually , pretty undefined job profile!)who at least
> wrote correct English, generally (from what little I've read). In this
> particular case, he was probably trying to take off on the dialect of
> the "Sandras from Bandra".
>
> In a way, "My love encloses, a bunch of roses" isn't much different
> from (or it could even be a clever take on) Robert Burns' (IIRC) "My
> love is a red, red rose", which is regarded a classic.
Oh please, "Andy"; show some discrimination! I highly doubt that
Harindranath was trying to parody Anglo-Indian speech. ALL his poetic
droppings share the diction and calibre of "My heart is beating." I bet
he thought he was writing a wonderful poem. The man was mental. In every
interview and article, he came across as either retarded or a crank. I
particularly remember one interview on Bombay Doordarshan where the dude
said something to the effect that even though he was an old man, he
still had a small boy named "Mana" living with him, and he then
proceeded to have a long conversation in baby-talk with his "mana."
Hopelessly ga-ga.
And Robby Burns's "My love is like a red, red rose" is nothing like "My
love encloses a plot of roses" (incidentally, it isn't "a bunch of
roses", but your misquotation doesn't really matter, because it's not as
though Harindranath was in any way sensitive to poetic nuance. But for
future reference, do try to remember that flowers come in bouquets, and
bananas in bunches). For one thing, Robby Burns's poem is not merely
"regarded" as a classic. It was written in the 1700s, and the very fact
that it's being quoted (however inappropriately) 300 years later shows
that it IS a classic. To say that Burns's poem is "regarded" as a
classic is like saying that Lata Mangeshkar is "regarded" as a good
singer.
The trouble with classics, of course, is that they become cliches.
Everybody can quote "My love is like a red, red rose," which means it
doesn't strike us as remarkable or fresh. But in fact, Burns's poem is
remarkably fresh even all these centuries later: "O My love's like a
red, red rose / That's newly sprung in June / My love is like the
melodie / That's sweetly sung in tune." Vivid, captivating, and utterly
delightful.
And what does "Harindaa" have to offer? "My heart is beating." Well, of
course her heart is beating, what the fuck is the alternative? If it
weren't beating, she could hardly be warbling on about it in Preeti
Sagar's voice, could she, now.
From "Andy" unto Neha. I haven't heard the Lagaan song. The lyrics are
quite passable, though, except for the much-debated first line: "The
roses pout their lovely mouths." That's ungrammatical. "Pout" is an
intransitive verb. You don't "pout something"; you just "pout." It's
like saying "she smiled her mouth." Very jarring. But at least the song
isn't pure drivel like "My heart is allegedly beating".
As for Ashok, who asks how I would fix the "ek din tum bahut ba.De
banoge" song: well, I'd begin by telling Ravindra Jain that really,
"then" and "can" are not a good pair of words to choose for a rhyme
unless you're trying to be Ogden Nash.
-s
(who used to teach poetry for a living until he decided that "Measure
for Measure" was wasted on college freshmen.)
PS re: "regarded as a classic," I did read a book couple years ago that
referred to "the well-known film singer Lata Mangeshkar." Being easily
amused, I spent the next few days drawing up equally fatuous
descriptions: "the well-known building, the Taj Mahal"; "the well-known
Prime Minister, Indira Gandhi"; "the well-known weapon, the atom bomb";
"the well-known planet, Earth"; "the well-known religious leader,
God".....In case you're wondering, the book in question was called
"NAAD: Understanding Raaga Music" and was by one Sandeep Bagchee.
Thoroughly uninformed book, retails misinformation with great authority,
written with absolutely no sense of style, as the bit about "well-known
film singer" attests.
Anindya
> In article <f43baef6.02021...@posting.google.com>,
> andy...@hotmail.com (Anindya) wrote:
>
> > rc0...@rediffmail.com (Ritu) wrote in message
> > news:<8777cccd.02021...@posting.google.com>...
> >
> > > Another very ungrammatical song was 'My heart is beating' from Julie.
> > > It's too funny.
> > > My heart is beating
> > > Keeps on repeating
> > > I'm waiting for you
> > >
> > > Could not get cornier!
>
> > Here, the lyricist concerned is Harindranath Chattopadhyay who, apart
> > from being Sarojini Naidu's brother, was an amateur poet
>
> He had to be. He hadn't the talent to turn pro.
>
true! I fully agree with you.
> > several things, actually , pretty undefined job profile!)who at least
> > wrote correct English, generally (from what little I've read). In this
> > particular case, he was probably trying to take off on the dialect of
> > the "Sandras from Bandra".
> >
> > In a way, "My love encloses, a bunch of roses" isn't much different
> > from (or it could even be a clever take on) Robert Burns' (IIRC) "My
> > love is a red, red rose", which is regarded a classic.
>
> Oh please, "Andy"; show some discrimination! I highly doubt that
> Harindranath was trying to parody Anglo-Indian speech. ALL his poetic
> droppings share the diction and calibre of "My heart is beating." I bet
> he thought he was writing a wonderful poem. The man was mental. In every
> interview and article, he came across as either retarded or a crank. I
> particularly remember one interview on Bombay Doordarshan where the dude
> said something to the effect that even though he was an old man, he
> still had a small boy named "Mana" living with him, and he then
> proceeded to have a long conversation in baby-talk with his "mana."
> Hopelessly ga-ga.
yes, agree again. I do not think HC is the world's greatest poet.
Talking of the DD interview, I think I too have seen the same one -
where he recites another of his gems - Spring is cominnnnnng
cominnnnnng cominnnnng.
I was only trying to say that the man was at least gramatically
correct, that's all. The Burns' comparison wasn't intended to be
serious and was put in (successfully, as it now appears) for
"shock-effect"(even a pre-teen greenhorn like me wouldn't compare HC
with Burns..come on, you know it :)).
Pardon the unintended travesty on "regarded". Replace that with "My
love..." IS a classic. Big problem...mean something, say something
else -
"the best laid plans o' mice and men, are oft gang aglae"
(another inappropriate usage...just to convince RMIM-ers that I have
read more of Burns that I have, of HC. Seriously :))
> And what does "Harindaa" have to offer? "My heart is beating." Well, of
> course her heart is beating, what the fuck is the alternative?
er....bleating?
Anindya
Anindya
and oh yes:
But for
> future reference, do try to remember that flowers come in bouquets, and
> bananas in bunches).
thanks. But you'll need to tell this to several people, including, for
instance, the 19th century poet, A B Paterson, who wrote a poem
called (yes!) "A Bunch of Roses
"Such are the visions that fade away
Man proposes and God disposes;
Look in the glass and I see today
Only an old man, worn and grey,
Bending his head to a bunch of roses."
...familiar, "Sbose"?
Anindya
Mads
Most times Ritu and I don't really see eye to eye .... but have to
agree with her here !!
That particular verse reminds me of Preeti Sagar's attempts at singing
"Western numbers"
Pout ... pop .... whatever, conjures the image of something 'puckering
up' before spitting !! in fact bad enough to make sure that I chuck
out any red roses that I receive on Valentine's Day :)
-M
Ritu
> rc0...@rediffmail.com (Ritu) wrote in message news:<8777cccd.02021...@posting.google.com>...
>
> > Could not get cornier! Seems they've done a direct translation from
> > Hindi to English. Infact I found the Lagaan English song also pretty
> > funny. Though the pronunciations if not British were atleast correct
> > 'Indian English' but the lyrics were pretty funny. Something about
> > 'Roses popping their scarlet mouths offering a kiss' !!!!
>
> Well..I have to disagree. I think the song is beautiful and the english
> words are quite poetic..here they go...I didnt have any issues with
> Vasundhara Das's english accent or singing. For a change she is
> good, but with Rahman, most are:).
The way she says 'off-e-ring' is very desi. Yes, I said her accent is
fine for Indian English but definitely not British English.
>
> my heart it speaks a thousand words
> i feel eternal bliss
> the roses pout their scarlet mouths
> like offering a kiss
> no drop of rain, no glowing flame
> has ever been so pure
> if being in love can feel like this
> then i am in love for sure...
>
> You think these lyrics are funny? Hmm..
>isnt that a beautiful expression? Come on!! admit it:)
I'm trying I'm trying very hard :-)!
Cheers
Ritu
Ritu
> In article <8777cccd.02021...@posting.google.com>,
> rc0...@rediffmail.com says...
>
> >There's nothing wrong with the metaphor of the roses having 'scarlet
> >mouths'(though scarlet lips would be more delicate and poetic IMO)
> >it's the expression that is wrong. The same thought process could have
> >been expressed in a better constructed sentence that brought out the
> >poetic elements in the image. 'Roses popping their scarlet mouths
> >offering a kiss' not only sounds ridiculous it paints a very funny
> >picture to my mind.
>
> Not if you watch National Geographic/Discovery. Each ran a series that had shots
> taken of everyday mundane tasks that most of us don't even think about. The
> idea, I suppose was to show exactly how beautiful those mundane tasks are. One
> of the images was of a rose blossoming/flowering, taken with special time-lapse
> photography, and the image is exactly that of a "rose popping its scarlet
> mouth". LIFE magazine even featured this series and some of the photos in it
> once. So, I disagree. The lyrics neither sound nor paint a ridiculous and funny
> picture to MY mind. All IMHO.
Again I repeat. A blossming rose looks really beautiful. And for
anyone who loves plants/gardening the event of a rose blossming is not
really mundane. It's a great occasion. So, coming back to the point
it's not the thought that lacks beauty it's the expression.
>
> >
> >>Does it become beautiful only if it is written in Hindi/Urdu by a Sahir/Gulzar?
> >
> >Not at all. Poetry written in any language can be beautiful but if you
> >try to think in Hindi and then express in English or any other
> >language the result is not very convincing. I for one was not
>
> Assuming Sahir thought in Urdu, he seems to have done a marvellous job in
> expressing "Sansaar se bhaage phirte ho" in Hindi. Very convincing too. And I am
> sure if you look hard enough, you might come across a Bharat Vyas or a Neeraj
> thinking in Hindi, but expressing themselves pretty well in Urdu too.
Well that just goes out to prove what a great poet Sahir was!
-Ritu
>
>
> Ketan
Ket...@att.net
>The way she says 'off-e-ring' is very desi. Yes, I said her accent is
>fine for Indian English but definitely not British English.
That's easy to answer. Rachel Shelley after coming to India, picked up desi
English, so naturally she would sing in that accent. :)
No, the statement is not quite so absurd. The singer "Sting"(of Police fame) was
asked how he managed to speak in a British accent but sing in an American
accent. He said he actually took vocal lessons in accent training, so that he
could sound American, and hence increase the chances of his music selling over
in the US. He pointed out that someone like Phil Collins, does sound distinctly
British even while singing.
And if matching accent to character were that important--Hmmm..let's see we have
Johnny Walker playing a Bengali photographer in "Baharen Phir Bhi Aayengi" and
singing "Suno suno Miss Chatterjee" in an absolute Punjabi accent. Should we
blame Rafi or OPN or both for this?
Ketan
Ashok
>
>future reference, do try to remember that flowers come in bouquets, and
>bananas in bunches).
To some extent, what collective noun one uses is a matter of taste and
of the effect one is looking to produce. Bunch of roses is fine. For
bananas, I prefer "hand". A recent article in RMIC quotes you as
saying "bunch of Indians"!
>And what does "Harindaa" have to offer? "My heart is beating." Well, of
>course her heart is beating, what the fuck is the alternative? If it
>weren't beating, she could hardly be warbling on about it in Preeti
>Sagar's voice, could she, now.
I am not holding up those lines as shining examples of poetry, but
I must say the above analysis is crass and vulgar in the extreme.
>From "Andy" unto Neha. I haven't heard the Lagaan song. The lyrics are
>quite passable, though, except for the much-debated first line: "The
>roses pout their lovely mouths." That's ungrammatical. "Pout" is an
>intransitive verb. You don't "pout something"; you just "pout." It's
>like saying "she smiled her mouth." Very jarring. But at least the song
>isn't pure drivel like "My heart is allegedly beating".
You seem to be overly quick with "ungrammatical"! Look up the dictionary.
"pout" has a transitive usage also, meaning some thing like "protrude."
"pouted her lips" is the example Meriam-Webster gives.
>As for Ashok, who asks how I would fix the "ek din tum bahut ba.De
>banoge" song: well, I'd begin by telling Ravindra Jain that really,
>"then" and "can" are not a good pair of words to choose for a rhyme
>unless you're trying to be Ogden Nash.
>
>-s
Having told Ravindra Jain that, can you come back to my question?
How would you render the grammatically offensive line grammatical?
Ashok
Neha
> From "Andy" unto Neha. I haven't heard the Lagaan song. The lyrics are
> quite passable, though, except for the much-debated first line: "The
> roses pout their lovely mouths." That's ungrammatical. "Pout" is an
> intransitive verb. You don't "pout something"; you just "pout." It's
> like saying "she smiled her mouth." Very jarring.
Okay Surajit, I checked Websters(at m-w.com)and this is what I get for
the verb 'pout':
Main Entry: pout
Pronunciation: 'paut
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English
Date: 14th century
intransitive senses
1 a : to show displeasure by thrusting out the lips
or wearing a sullen expression
b : SULK
2 : PROTRUDE
transitive senses : to cause to protrude <pouted her
lips>
and on Oxford(at http://www1.oup.co.uk/elt/oald/ )I get:
pout /pat/ verb if you pout, pout your lips or if your lips pout, you
push out your
lips, to show you are annoyed or to look sexually attractive:
-[v] He pouted angrily.
- Her lips pouted invitingly.
-[vn] models pouting their lips for the camera [also v speech]
So, apparently there can be a transitive usage...
So a grammatically, you can pout something(usually lips). I grant the
lyricist
poetic license to change 'pout their scarlet lips' to 'pout their
scarlet mouths'
for better rhyming...without finding it jarring...
--
Neha
yeskay
>
> > Well..I have to disagree. I think the song is beautiful and the english
> > words are quite poetic..here they go...I didnt have any issues with
> > Vasundhara Das's english accent or singing. For a change she is
> > good, but with Rahman, most are:).
>
> The way she says 'off-e-ring' is very desi. Yes, I said her accent is
> fine for Indian English but definitely not British English.
You seem to have a very distinct notion about how British English is
spoken. Besides, 'off-e-ring' is pronounced that way to fit the tune
and not because the singer has any accent. You seem to notice it
just because you already know the singer is an Indian. I don't say it's
quite an authentic British accent, but certainly not a pure Indian one
at that either.
Ritu
> In article <8777cccd.02021...@posting.google.com>,
> rc0...@rediffmail.com says...
>
> >The way she says 'off-e-ring' is very desi. Yes, I said her accent is
> >fine for Indian English but definitely not British English.
>
> That's easy to answer. Rachel Shelley after coming to India, picked up desi
> English, so naturally she would sing in that accent. :)
Yes and that too accent used by Indians 100 years later. Yeah Ketan
you hit the nail on the head! :-)
>
> And if matching accent to character were that important--Hmmm..let's see we have
> Johnny Walker playing a Bengali photographer in "Baharen Phir Bhi Aayengi" and
> singing "Suno suno Miss Chatterjee" in an absolute Punjabi accent. Should we
> blame Rafi or OPN or both for this?
Blame both and the director as well. I don't remember this song or the
situation but for a film like Lagaan where there was supposedly a lot
of attention given to detail. So much that they got British actors
instead of availing of the services of our very own Tom Alter, Bob
Christo and gang, they could have got a British singer to compose and
render this portion as well. It would have definitely sounded more
convincing.
- Ritu
P.S Incidentally as a footnote Rachel Kelly was pretty amused herself
at this portion of having to twirl and proclaim I'm in love I'm in
love !
Surajit A. Bose
> "Such are the visions that fade away
> Man proposes and God disposes;
> Look in the glass and I see today
> Only an old man, worn and grey,
> Bending his head to a bunch of roses."
>
> ...familiar, "Sbose"?
No; I know the cliche about "Man proposes, God disposes," but I've never
heard of A B Paterson. If that's an example of his greatest poetry, it's
no wonder.
> "the best laid plans o' mice and men, are oft gang aglae"
>
> (another inappropriate usage...just to convince RMIM-ers that I have
> read more of Burns that I have, of HC. Seriously :))
(sigh) ".......men, gang oft aglee."
> > And what does "Harindaa" have to offer? "My heart is beating." Well, of
> > course her heart is beating, what the fuck is the alternative?
>
> er....bleating?
LOL! But Preeti Sagar's singing isn't THAT bad, is it?
In article <a4eer...@enews4.newsguy.com>,
ADhar...@WorldBank.Org (Ashok) wrote:
> To some extent, what collective noun one uses is a matter of taste and
> of the effect one is looking to produce. Bunch of roses is fine.
The first sentence was exactly my point. The second sentence is contrary
to it. "Bunch of roses" may be grammatically okay, but it seems most
infelicitous an expression.
> For bananas, I prefer "hand". A recent article in RMIC quotes you as
> saying "bunch of Indians"!
That was a figure of speech known as "transferred epithet"; the
non-Indian dude who posted that quote is clearly bananas.
-s
Pradeep Dubey
lagate sab bhukhe, chal khele.n kanches
sulky hotho.n par, silky ye naghame
hindi ki thaali, is angrezi jug mein
beet gaya din ye bhi, ab raat langhiye
VIP baniyaan, Rupa ke janghiye
Pradeep
P.S. Talking about non-hindi words (so that this post is not
considered entirely irrelevant to this thread), remember:
if agar is hai, but par what maane kyaa?
ADhar...@WorldBank.Org (Ashok) wrote in message news:<a4eer...@enews4.newsguy.com>...
Anindya
> In article <f43baef6.02021...@posting.google.com>,
> andy...@hotmail.com (Anindya) wrote:
>
> > "Such are the visions that fade away
> > Man proposes and God disposes;
> > Look in the glass and I see today
> > Only an old man, worn and grey,
> > Bending his head to a bunch of roses."
> >
> > ...familiar, "Sbose"?
>
> No; I know the cliche about "Man proposes, God disposes," but I've never
> heard of A B Paterson. If that's an example of his greatest poetry, it's
> no wonder.
but between two obscure poets, A B Paterson and Surajit A Bose, I'd
STILL go for the less obscure one :)
Anindya
Anindya
> heard of A B Paterson.
following up on the earlier thread, and since this has anyway turned
into a discourse on English Literature (one of the pre-requisites to
becoming a successful RMIM-er? sigh..no one told me),
why is "Man proposes, God disposes" a cliche, but "My love is..." a
classic, fresh as dew despite blasphemous overuse by semi-literates
etc.? Does it have to do with how many people have heard of the POET
rather than the POEM?
More Indians have heard of Anu Malik than Salil C, so stretching the
logic a bit further, should we say .....
or should we simply say "should auld acquaintance be forgot and ne'er
brought to mind", leave both Burns and Paterson alone, and restore
some sanity and peace in the group?
I'm ok, either way.
Anindya
Surajit A. Bose
> why is "Man proposes, God disposes" a cliche, but "My love is..." a
> classic, fresh as dew despite blasphemous overuse by semi-literates
> etc.? Does it have to do with how many people have heard of the POET
> rather than the POEM?
No, it has to do with the pleasure one can derive from reading the work
in its entirety. "To be or not to be" is a cliche. "Hamlet" is not.
"My love is like a red, red, rose" is a cliche. The entire poem is not.
The same can't be said for the few lines you quoted from Paterson.
My pet definition of classic: "something that's old but affects us as
though it were new."
As for this forum degenerating into a lit-crit seminar, hey, you started
it. But to keep things relevant to charter: Fewer people have heard of
Sudhir Phadke than of Shankar-Jaikishan. But Sudhir Phadke's Jaijaivanti
in "baa.Ndh priiti phuul Dor" is a classic. Shankar-Jaikishan's in
"manamohanaa ba.De jhuuThe" is a cliche.
Or to take another example, S N Tripathi's Megh in "mehaa aao re" is a
classic. Despite being much newer, Rajkamal's in "kahaa.N se aae
badaraa" is a cliche.
-s
SKalra902
>flowers in bouquet, bananas in bunches
>lagate sab bhukhe, chal khele.n kanches
>
>sulky hotho.n par, silky ye naghame
>hindi ki thaali, is angrezi jug mein
"apun" ko yeh 'pun' samajh mein aa gayaa - ki aap kis 'jag' kii baat kar rahe
hain!
Happy listenings.
Satish Kalra
Anindya
> Pradeep wrote:
>
> >flowers in bouquet, bananas in bunches
> >lagate sab bhukhe, chal khele.n kanches
> >
> >sulky hotho.n par, silky ye naghame
> >hindi ki thaali, is angrezi jug mein
>
> "apun" ko yeh 'pun' samajh mein aa gayaa - ki aap kis 'jag' kii baat kar rahe
> hain!
>
reminds me of the beautiful KK (MD: Khemchand Prakash, Rim Jhim) song
on vessels (a pre-cursor to Din khaali khaali bartan hai):
JUG MUG JUG MUG kartaa niklaa..
Anindya
Anindya
drawing largely from the various literary analyses/debates of the last
few days, I take the liberty, to present to the group (aptly on
Baleenteen's day), a slightly modified version of the song in question
- this now makes more sense, I think:
My heart is bleating
Keeps on repeating
I'm oink-ing for you
My love encloses
Chocolate mousses....
.......
(here I don't remember the next two lines......help, anyone)
(for) night time is eating time, it's eating time it's eating.
ok.....I'm Donne, for now
"Andy"...("Burns" a few "Pounds" on nightime culinary workouts)
Anindya
> > classic, fresh as dew despite blasphemous overuse by semi-literates
> > etc.? Does it have to do with how many people have heard of the POET
> > rather than the POEM?
>
> No, it has to do with the pleasure one can derive from reading the work
> in its entirety. "To be or not to be" is a cliche. "Hamlet" is not.
>
> "My love is like a red, red, rose" is a cliche. The entire poem is not.
>
> The same can't be said for the few lines you quoted from Paterson.
accepted...though the point I was trying to make, in the specific
context, was quite different. Anyway...
Round 1 to you, Sir :)
(the "smiley" is to prevent you (us!) from further sparring :))
>
> As for this forum degenerating into a lit-crit seminar, hey, you started
> it.
ah...well..it takes two to tango :)
But to keep things relevant to charter: Fewer people have heard of
> Sudhir Phadke than of Shankar-Jaikishan. But Sudhir Phadke's Jaijaivanti
> in "baa.Ndh priiti phuul Dor" is a classic. Shankar-Jaikishan's in
> "manamohanaa ba.De jhuuThe" is a cliche.
>
> Or to take another example, S N Tripathi's Megh in "mehaa aao re" is a
> classic. Despite being much newer, Rajkamal's in "kahaa.N se aae
> badaraa" is a cliche.
agree, again. But, in the context of music, shouldn't we simply
classify the former as a "better song"...
Now, a sincere query. Which acc. to you would be the best Jayjayanti
in HFM? IMHO, and as per my limited knowledge, I'd reckon Bairon
ho...from Dekh Kavira Roya (Manna, Madan Mohan)?
Also, don't you think A.nkhiyon ka kajra (Ghungroo ki Aawaz, RDB)
maybe a bad Jayajayanti (though I'd prefer to use the word "muted")
but a very good song.
Anindya
Surajit A. Bose
> (the "smiley" is to prevent you (us!) from further sparring :))
but....but what will I do for fun, then?
> Now, a sincere query. Which acc. to you would be the best Jayjayanti
> in HFM? IMHO, and as per my limited knowledge, I'd reckon Bairon
> ho...from Dekh Kavira Roya (Manna, Madan Mohan)?
I like "baa.Ndh priitii phuul Dor" better. Heck, I even like
"manamohanaa ba.De jhuuThe" and "suunii suunii saa.Ns ke sitaar par"
better. Manna De is all right, but simply not in the Mangeshkars'
class.....and the way he pounces on that "ho" is terrible.
I like the picturization of "manamohanaa ba.De jhuuThe" a lot, actually.
It's very well lip-synched (should that be lip-sunch?). Nutan actually
looks like she's singing the taans.
I mean, in any number of movies, Manna De labors to deliver a taan on
the soundtrack, and Bharat Bhushan just sits there gaping slack-jawed on
the screen; you'd think his expression would budge just a wee bit to
represent the heroic efforts Mr De puts into every classical song....
> Also, don't you think A.nkhiyon ka kajra (Ghungroo ki Aawaz, RDB)
> maybe a bad Jayajayanti (though I'd prefer to use the word "muted")
> but a very good song.
I don't think I know the song.
-s
Ashok
>
>In article <f43baef6.02021...@posting.google.com>,
> andy...@hotmail.com (Anindya) wrote:
>
>> (the "smiley" is to prevent you (us!) from further sparring :))
>
>but....but what will I do for fun, then?
>
>> Now, a sincere query. Which acc. to you would be the best Jayjayanti
>> in HFM? IMHO, and as per my limited knowledge, I'd reckon Bairon
>> ho...from Dekh Kavira Roya (Manna, Madan Mohan)?
>
>I like "baa.Ndh priitii phuul Dor" better. Heck, I even like
>"manamohanaa ba.De jhuuThe" and "suunii suunii saa.Ns ke sitaar par"
>better. Manna De is all right, but simply not in the Mangeshkars'
>class.....
Agreed that he is nowhere near the league of Lata, but you'll have
quite a task convinving me that Usha is in the same league.
I agree with your rating of "baa.ndh preetee phool Dor". Regardless
of the raaga, it is a marvel. Wonderfully put together by Sudhir
Phadke, to very fascinating words by Narendra Sharma.
There is really no Jayajayawanti that comes anywhere near that song,
but among the others, I have a somewhat surprising pick. Surprising
because it is by Naushad, who has done this raaga to death. But I
am partial to his one composition for 'Mughal-e-Azam'. No, heaven
forbid, I don't mean "o more panighaT pe" (which is just a blatant
copy of an earlier non-film song on the part of both Shakeel and
Naushad). The one I regard highly is
ye dil kee lagee kam kyaa hogee, ye ishq bhalaa kam kyaa hogaa
jab raat hai aisee matavaalee, phir subah kaa aalam kyaa hogaa
>I like the picturization of "manamohanaa ba.De jhuuThe" a lot, actually.
>It's very well lip-synched (should that be lip-sunch?). Nutan actually
>looks like she's singing the taans.
I guess it helps that she knew singing. I recall a criticism made
by Afzal sometime ago of none less than Shabana Azmi of her efforts
in 'Saaz': that her acting during the song situations just didn't
convey the effort that singing involves. Well, Shabana has sung a
few songs for Hindi films and although those songs are no great shakes,
it is nevertheless a puzzle how she portrayed the act of singing in
such a lacklustre fashion in a film where singing is supposed to
be "it".
And earlier:
>As for this forum degenerating into a lit-crit seminar, hey, you started
>it. But to keep things relevant to charter: Fewer people have heard of
>Sudhir Phadke than of Shankar-Jaikishan. But Sudhir Phadke's Jaijaivanti
>in "baa.Ndh priiti phuul Dor" is a classic. Shankar-Jaikishan's in
>"manamohanaa ba.De jhuuThe" is a cliche.
>
>Or to take another example, S N Tripathi's Megh in "mehaa aao re" is a
>classic. Despite being much newer, Rajkamal's in "kahaa.N se aae
>badaraa" is a cliche.
>Or to take another example, S N Tripathi's Megh in "mehaa aao re" is a
>classic. Despite being much newer, Rajkamal's in "kahaa.N se aae
>badaraa" is a cliche.
>
>-s
While I agree that the 'Seema' song pales in comparison to the
'Malti Madhav' song, I think it is a very good song and I wouldn't
agree that it is a cliche. There just haven't been all that many
songs of that calibre for that to be justifiably called a cliche.
And I don't think that the 'Sangeet Samrat Tansen' song is that great
(apropos of nothing, the song wasn't even released) nor do I think
that the 'Chashme Baddoor' song is a lowly affair. Both are a
far cry from "baa.ndh preetee phool Dor", but both are very nice.
Ashok
Anindya
> > Now, a sincere query. Which acc. to you would be the best Jayjayanti
> > in HFM? IMHO, and as per my limited knowledge, I'd reckon Bairon
> > ho...from Dekh Kavira Roya (Manna, Madan Mohan)?
>
> I like "baa.Ndh priitii phuul Dor" better. Heck, I even like
> "manamohanaa ba.De jhuuThe" and "suunii suunii saa.Ns ke sitaar par"
> better. Manna De is all right, but simply not in the Mangeshkars'
> class.....and the way he pounces on that "ho" is terrible.
yeah...if only he had ever realised that there's something terribly
irritating about his style. However, in this particular case, MD's
style (unwittingly, I suspect) matches the nincompoop-style character
and mannerisms of Anup Kumar in the movie (come to think of it, has
anyone ever seen AnupK NOT playing a nincompoop, a mantle that he so
succesfully handed over to Randhir Kapoor in the later decades). DKR
would also surely rank in the Hall of Fame of "beautiful songs sung by
absolute flunkeys"
>
> I mean, in any number of movies, Manna De labors to deliver a taan on
> the soundtrack, and Bharat Bhushan just sits there gaping slack-jawed on
> the screen; you'd think his expression would budge just a wee bit to
> represent the heroic efforts Mr De puts into every classical song....
and into non-classical ones as well. "Aao TTTWIST kare.n" would sound
equally apt with the lyrics changed to "Aao FIST kare.n"
Also, don't you think A.nkhiyon ka kajra (Ghungroo ki Aawaz, RDB)
> > maybe a bad Jayajayanti (though I'd prefer to use the word "muted")
> > but a very good song.
>
> I don't think I know the song.
HFM version of the original "Aadho aalo chhaayatey" from Kawlonkini
Kawnkaaboti, if that helps.
and now.......
what is your opinion on a relatively recent Jayjayanti - Anu Malik's
Raam Naraayan baaja bajaata, a Raghupati Raghava rip-off?
Anindya
Shalini Razdan
> While I agree that the 'Seema' song pales in comparison to the
> 'Malti Madhav' song, I think it is a very good song and I wouldn't
> agree that it is a cliche. There just haven't been all that many
> songs of that calibre for that to be justifiably called a cliche.
> And I don't think that the 'Sangeet Samrat Tansen' song is that great
> (apropos of nothing, the song wasn't even released) nor do I think
> that the 'Chashme Baddoor' song is a lowly affair. Both are a
> far cry from "baa.ndh preetee phool Dor", but both are very nice.
>
Pardon the deviation, but the reference to "mehaa aao re" reminds me
of another similiar sounding song by SNT featuring a different pair of
singing sisters: Suman and Shyama Hemmady(sp?). I can't recall the
words right now but it's from the movie "Mahasati Ansuyia"(sp?). Are
there any other duets by Suman & Shyama? The only other one that comes
to mind is "jhankti hai meri aankhon se qaza" from Dooj Ka Chand. Any
others?
Shalini
>
> Ashok
Surajit A. Bose
ADhar...@WorldBank.Org (Ashok) wrote:
> I agree with your rating of "baa.ndh preetee phool Dor". Regardless
> of the raaga, it is a marvel. Wonderfully put together by Sudhir
> Phadke, to very fascinating words by Narendra Sharma.
That's funny, I have always thought the lyrics make very little sense.
> While I agree that the 'Seema' song pales in comparison to the
> 'Malti Madhav' song, I think it is a very good song and I wouldn't
> agree that it is a cliche.
Oh, it is a very good, sweet song. It is not a particularly stellar
Jaijaivanti, that's all. I'm not sure how much I would maintain that
distinction.....it's a heurisitic rather than absolute one. But the
Maalti Madhav song is gorgeous, and the Seema song a bit lifeless. (I
find all the Lata songs of Seema to be a bit lifeless; the "happy"
version of "suno chhoTiisii gu.Diyaa", for example, is no livelier than
the "sad" version, and "baat baat me.n ruuTho naa" has no lilt to it.
Pity.)
> And I don't think that the 'Sangeet Samrat Tansen' song is that great
> (apropos of nothing, the song wasn't even released) nor do I think
> that the 'Chashme Baddoor' song is a lowly affair. Both are a
> far cry from "baa.ndh preetee phool Dor", but both are very nice.
The percussion in "mehaa aao re" and some of the swar-vistaar is
magnificent, as is the singing. The Chashme Buddoor song is awful. The
sargam passage: "Pa ma, Pa ma, Pa ma, Pa ma, Pa ma, ma Re ma Re ...." is
embarrassingly childish in conception, as is the orchestration. The two
songs are not equally "nice".
-s
SKalra902
>In article <a4i45...@enews1.newsguy.com>,
> ADhar...@WorldBank.Org (Ashok) wrote:
>
>> I agree with your rating of "baa.ndh preetee phool Dor". Regardless
>> of the raaga, it is a marvel. Wonderfully put together by Sudhir
>> Phadke, to very fascinating words by Narendra Sharma.
>
>That's funny, I have always thought the lyrics make very little sense.
>
>> While I agree that the 'Seema' song pales in comparison to the
>> 'Malti Madhav' song, I think it is a very good song and I wouldn't
>> agree that it is a cliche.
>
>Oh, it is a very good, sweet song. It is not a particularly stellar
>Jaijaivanti, that's all. I'm not sure how much I would maintain that
>distinction.....it's a heurisitic rather than absolute one. But the
>Maalti Madhav song is gorgeous, and the Seema song a bit lifeless. (I
>find all the Lata songs of Seema to be a bit lifeless; the "happy"
>version of "suno chhoTiisii gu.Diyaa", for example, is no livelier than
>the "sad" version, and "baat baat me.n ruuTho naa" has no lilt to it.
>Pity.)
I'll leave the raaga part of the discussion out of it, since I have no
knowledge about them at all. However, to deem the Seema songs "Suno chhoti sii
gudiyaa..", both the sad and the happy versions as lifeless, and the "baat baat
me.n ruuTho naa..." as being without lilt, is not being able to penetrate into
the 'life' and the 'rythm and lilt' of the songs!
Let me take the sad version of the 'chhoti sii gudiyaa kii kahaanii' first.
Each of the four stanzas conveys the helplessness, the pathos, the sheer
frustration of the character - Nutan - in the film.
In the happy version of the song, the way the first stanza goes, "oooooo
aayii.n khushiyaa.n bhi pyaar kii raaho.n par ithlaatii hawaaon par, Gam ke
gaye baadal chaa.nd banaa paayal....", listen carefully to the slight extra
emphasis on the words "raaho.n par", "ithlaatii hawaaon par", "Gam ke gaye
baadal..", and then at the end of the stanza, "saj ke bahaar aayii aur jhuum ke
lehraayii". Every word of the lyrics conveys the feelings as appropriately in
the song as the character in the film does on the screen. And then at the
beginning of the second stanza, when the interlude music ends and the lyrics
begin with "sach hii huye aakhir armaan ke har sapne, Gair thhi ye duniyaa aur
ban gaye sab apne", the feelings of happiness are absolutely "visible" in the
song.
A pity HMV did not issue a recording of the happy version at the time of the
release of the film, forcing music lovers like me to see the film umpteen times
to listen to this version of the song. :-)
Similarly, the lilt in the "baat baat me.n ruuTho naa" is to be felt not only
in the voicde of the singer, but also in the orchestration, which makes the
heart go jumping in musical waves!
If the feelings conveyed in the "gudiyaa" song still leave it 'lifeless', or
the lilt in the "baat baat me.n" still not being felt, then all I would say is
what I say often in matters of music preferences, etc., and that is that
"Beauty lies in the eye of the beholder".
And of course what I wrote above is further proof of it. But in my lack of
knowledge of the raagas, I would not say that a particular song is 'not based'
on a raaga. Or that a song is 'lifeless' simply because it has been rendered
by a particular singer. :-)
Happy listenings.
Satish Kalra
Surajit A. Bose
skal...@aol.com (SKalra902) wrote:
> on a raaga. Or that a song is 'lifeless' simply because it has been rendered
> by a particular singer. :-)
Oh? And who has sung "baa.Ndh priiti phuul Dor", on which I lavished
such praise?
-s
SKalra902
>> on a raaga. Or that a song is 'lifeless' simply because it has been
>rendered
>> by a particular singer. :-)
>
>Oh? And who has sung "baa.Ndh priiti phuul Dor", on which I lavished
>such praise?
My comments were based on my interpretation of your post that the Malti Madhav
song was good "only" due to its being superior in that particular raga. That
is why I did put the smiley at the end. But if it offended you due to my
misinterpretation of your post, my apologies.
Happy listenings.
Satish Kalra
Cricfan
> I never meant Bengalis look for illogical names; they have a craze for
> "uncommon" names whether it has a meaning or not. Music has
> traditionally been one of their fortes, so many names originated from
> Music. BTW, I like the name "Antara".
I like the name of my Bengali friend Anustup, since it is musical and
poetic. Anustup = metre in which Valmiki composed Ramayana. [how's
that for a trivia question?]
Cheers
Arun