More on Manna Dey !
Ramesh Hariharan
Hey rmimers:
Just forwarding an informative e-mail sent by Shandip Saha ... I think
Manna Dey fans would love to feed on this ! The article (IMO) is highly
opinionated in spots, classic flame baits. I myself don't agree with it
fully; I will wait for the wars to begin before stepping on the mound.
Hoping that this will lead to interesting music followups.
Ramesh
***********************************************************************
Just to add a little bit to what you have said about Manna Dey. I do
believe that he did a good deal of his music training with his uncle
the famous Krishna Chandra Dey. K.C. Dey, for the lovers of old movies,
was of course the famous blind singer who sang in Hindi and in Bengali
in movies like Chandidas and Dhoop Chaaon. K.C. Dey, however, is remembered
and loved the most in Bengal for his training and rendetions of Bengali
deovtional songs to Krishna and Radha, known as Vi Vaisnava Padavali.
I thin,k , however, that the reason that Manna Dey never made it to the
"top" was not only because of his inability to stick with one music
director or to have the quality to sing the "mainstream" songs like Kishore
and Rafi but also because his real love was for ghazals and geets.
There is a cassette -- I can't remember the name -- where he sang nothing
but non-film songs and it is here where he really shined and was really in
his element. His versitlity, however, was simply not limited only to ghazal
and geet, but to bhajanas as well. Everyone remembers how Manna Dey sang
in Basant Bahar or Boot Polish, but few remember how he also sang
Ramcharitmanas or the Hindi version of the Ramayana after the death of
Mukesh. Mukesh had songe (sung) the abridged version of the Tulsidas
Ramayana in eight volumes, but everyone forges forgets that Manna Dey did
a companinon set of four volumes singing sections that Mukesh did not in
his volume. The unfortunate thing, however, is that only everyone listens
to Mukesh's version and forget's about Mnanna Dey's set which is really
superb becase of the way that Manna Dey is not only a singer, but a real
actor bringing to life the text of Tulsidas. It is this life that he
equally brought to a set of songs in Bengali about the life of the famous
saint Ramakrishna. He could sing in a way that Kishore was throughly
incapable of doing. He sang with people all the way from Shankar Jaikishan
to Murli Manohar Swarup who did the music for the Ramayana series, but
Manna Dey's inability to stick with one individual who could use him all
the time in his music was what pushed him out of the music scene. I saw
a recent video tape of him in Dubai still singing the same good old songs.
His inability to change with the times may be the reason no one hears of
him anymore. Lata, Kishore, Mukesh all were able to adjust to the changing
scene of contemporary Hindi film music with the disco and everything else,
but Manna dey preferred to stick to the well worn path of the fifties.
It is a shame, for really his only rival in Hindi film music was Rafi who
was always superb. Mukesh and especially Kishore could never come close
to him I think and in Bengali music he was really superb -- of course with
the excetion of Hemanta. Asha should be ashamed of herself for her comments.
He was really or rather is really a great artist, but one who has really
no place to go in the Hindi film music industry anymore.
Regards,
Shandip Saha.
--
Ramesh Hariharan, Princeton U.
Nadiya chale chale re dhara Chanda chale chale re tara
Tujhko chalna hoga Tujhko chalna hoga Tujhko chalna hoga
Rajan P. Parrikar
>
>Hey rmimers:
>
>Just forwarding an informative e-mail sent by Shandip Saha ... I think
>Manna Dey fans would love to feed on this ! The article (IMO) is highly
>opinionated in spots, classic flame baits. I myself don't agree with it
>fully; I will wait for the wars to begin before stepping on the mound.
>
>Hoping that this will lead to interesting music followups.
>
>Ramesh
>
>***********************************************************************
>
>Just to add a little bit to what you have said about Manna Dey. I do
>believe that he did a good deal of his music training with his uncle
>the famous Krishna Chandra Dey. K.C. Dey, for the lovers of old movies,
>was of course the famous blind singer who sang in Hindi and in Bengali
>in movies like Chandidas and Dhoop Chaaon. K.C. Dey, however, is remembered
>and loved the most in Bengal for his training and rendetions of Bengali
>deovtional songs to Krishna and Radha, known as Vi Vaisnava Padavali.
>I thin,k , however, that the reason that Manna Dey never made it to the
>"top" was not only because of his inability to stick with one music
>director or to have the quality to sing the "mainstream" songs like Kishore
>and Rafi but also because his real love was for ghazals and geets.
The first reason can be shot down right away. None of the people who
made it to the top (Rafi, Mukesh, Kishore) stuck to any one music
director. Although they might have been favourites of certain music
directors, all of them made it independently of that fact. How does
sticking to one music director help in getting to the top?
On one hand, you accept his inability to sing "mainstream" songs
and then below you issue a summary opinion of how nobody comes
close to him. I find this very puzzling.
How does a love for ghazals and geets preclude one from getting to the
top? Rafi and Mukesh both had a great love for ghazals and geets.
>There is a cassette -- I can't remember the name -- where he sang nothing
>but non-film songs and it is here where he really shined and was really in
>his element.
Is this the one with the following two geets?
1) Bindiya jaane kahaaN khoyi, mai to saari ratiyaa nahiN soyi
2) Nathani se toota moti re
Beautiful compositions by Manna, I agree.
>His versitlity, however, was simply not limited only to ghazal
>and geet, but to bhajanas as well. Everyone remembers how Manna Dey sang
>in Basant Bahar or Boot Polish, but few remember how he also sang
>Ramcharitmanas or the Hindi version of the Ramayana after the death of
>Mukesh. Mukesh had songe (sung) the abridged version of the Tulsidas
>Ramayana in eight volumes, but everyone forges forgets that Manna Dey did
>a companinon set of four volumes singing sections that Mukesh did not in
>his volume. The unfortunate thing, however, is that only everyone listens
>to Mukesh's version and forget's about Mnanna Dey's set which is really
>superb becase of the way that Manna Dey is not only a singer, but a real
>actor bringing to life the text of Tulsidas. It is this life that he
>equally brought to a set of songs in Bengali about the life of the famous
>saint Ramakrishna.
>He could sing in a way that Kishore was throughly incapable of doing.
He could sing in a way that Manna was throughly incapable of doing
(where "He" is Kishore Kumar). Doesn't really tell us much, does
it? Although both statements could be argued and defended in their
proper context. (I have related Manna's experience with Kishore
during the recording of "Ek Chatur Naar" in an earlier post and
if you request I shall recycle that post).
>He sang with people all the way from Shankar Jaikishan
>to Murli Manohar Swarup who did the music for the Ramayana series, but
>Manna Dey's inability to stick with one individual who could use him all
>the time in his music was what pushed him out of the music scene. I saw
This is a tenuous thesis. Have you considered the possibility that
he didn't possess a "screen voice"? By which I mean, one that didn't
fit the image portrayed by any of the top heroes of the time?
In film music, voice plays a major role, even more than mere ability
at "swaracrobatics" (vocal gymnastics).
>a recent video tape of him in Dubai still singing the same good old songs.
>His inability to change with the times may be the reason no one hears of
>him anymore. Lata, Kishore, Mukesh all were able to adjust to the changing
>scene of contemporary Hindi film music with the disco and everything else,
>but Manna dey preferred to stick to the well worn path of the fifties.
I see. So you explain away his not keeping up with the times by saying
it was his preference. Even in the fifties there were cross currents of
change. Naushad, C. Ramchandra, Shankar-Jaikishen, O.P. Nayyar all
represented "change."
>It is a shame, for really his only rival in Hindi film music was Rafi who
>was always superb.
I admire your courage to say something like this:-)
>Mukesh and especially Kishore could never come close
>to him
We will withhold comment until you elaborate on your understanding
of "closeness.":-)
>I think and in Bengali music he was really superb -- of course with
>the excetion of Hemanta.
>Asha should be ashamed of herself for her comments.
Aww common, cut the poor girl some slack, will ya?
>He was really or rather is really a great artist, but one who has really
>no place to go in the Hindi film music industry anymore.
To make the point that Manna Day was a great artist you needn't
diminish the other great artists. If you do, then atleast provide
something more substantial than mere opinions - if you want a
dialogue, that is.
Rajan Parrikar
==============
email: parr...@mimicad.colorado.edu
ra...@anteng.ssd.loral.com
SAMIUDDIN MOHAMMED
>In article <1994Dec5.2...@Princeton.EDU> hari...@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Ramesh Hariharan) writes:
>>I thin,k , however, that the reason that Manna Dey never made it to the
>>"top" was not only because of his inability to stick with one music
>>director or to have the quality to sing the "mainstream" songs like Kishore
>>and Rafi but also because his real love was for ghazals and geets.
>
>The first reason can be shot down right away. None of the people who
>made it to the top (Rafi, Mukesh, Kishore) stuck to any one music
>director. Although they might have been favourites of certain music
>directors, all of them made it independently of that fact. How does
>sticking to one music director help in getting to the top?
I agree with Rajan here. Although Rafi, Mukesh and KK were the favourites of
Naushad, Shanky-J and SDB respectively, they did not limit themselves to
only those MD's. Moreover, both Shanky-J and SDB have tons of songs with Rafi
as well. Having a mentor doesn't always help. Sharda (of the "Titli udi..." notierity (sp?) ) was supposed to be the protege of either Shankar or Jaikishan, but yet couldn't make it big. Of course, one just cannot compare the talents
of Sharda and Manna Dey.
>>He could sing in a way that Kishore was throughly incapable of doing.
Ah! This is music for the ears!! :-) I see that the KKKlan President Herr Parrikar has already spoken and so I won't delve deep into this subject.
>>He sang with people all the way from Shankar Jaikishan
>>to Murli Manohar Swarup who did the music for the Ramayana series, but
>>Manna Dey's inability to stick with one individual who could use him all
>>the time in his music was what pushed him out of the music scene. I saw
>
>This is a tenuous thesis. Have you considered the possibility that
>he didn't possess a "screen voice"? By which I mean, one that didn't
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Exactly!! Manna's voice had a certain maturity about it which didn't suit
a young hero. For instance, the song "Har taraf ab yehi afsaane hain, hum
teri aankhon ke diwaane hain...." has been sung in an excellent fashion. But,
it wudn't suit a young hero.
>>a recent video tape of him in Dubai still singing the same good old songs.
>>His inability to change with the times may be the reason no one hears of
>>him anymore. Lata, Kishore, Mukesh all were able to adjust to the changing
>>scene of contemporary Hindi film music with the disco and everything else,
>>but Manna dey preferred to stick to the well worn path of the fifties.
But the point is that even in the fifties Manna was not at the top. Although
one cannot argue the fact that he was one of the best singers to ever grace
the film industry, he wasn't the most popular. I feel that it was ONLY because
of his voice.
>>It is a shame, for really his only rival in Hindi film music was Rafi who
>>was always superb.
>
>I admire your courage to say something like this:-)
.... and I admire ur truthfulness!! :-) (ur = NOT Rajan's)
>>Mukesh and especially Kishore could never come close
>>to him
>
>We will withhold comment until you elaborate on your understanding
>of "closeness.":-)
Rajan, he meant that KK wasn't half as good as Manna when it came to singing :-)
On a serious note, I remember watching Manna's interview on Doordarshan many
moons back. It was part of the "Great Masters" series. Manna called Rafi a
"phenomenon" for being able to sing every type of song with ease. He praised
KK a lot too for being able to sing so well without any formal training. But
when it came to Mukesh, Manna was more reserved with his applauds. Although, he
didn't explicitly say anything against Mukesh, he seemed to imply that Mukesh
got lucky, and didn't deserve the popularity which he gained.
>>Asha should be ashamed of herself for her comments.
>
>Aww common, cut the poor girl some slack, will ya?
Hey, that really was unfair on Asha's part to exclude Manna and Talat from
the golden age.
Sami Mohammed (A Naushad fan)
>Rajan Parrikar
Modena Software
by Harivansh Rai Bachchan. It is simply too good.
Also Manna Dey may not score on quantity but is unparalleled
in terms of quality and variety. A very large percentage of
his songs are hits and are very good. Also they show his versatility.
I think the reason he doesn't have many songs is because he
didn't have a team with any music director (Shankar Jaikishen-Mukesh
etc) nor was he associated with any hero (eg. Dilip-Talat, Dev Anand -
KK, Shammi - Rafi etc). Thus his services were utilized only for
some specialized and difficult songs which were perceived to be
difficult for the Hero's or MD's favourite. I feel that Manna Dey
is still unmatched for classical songs and his tenor.
Some Manna Dey greats IMHO:
All his songs from Chori Chori (sp AA JA SANAM and Ye Raat Bheegi Bheegi).
All his songs in Navrang(Aadha hai chandrama etc)
Dil ka haal sune dilwala (Shree 420)
Mur Mur ke na dekh ( " )
Aye meri zohra Zabeen ( Waqt)
Yaari hai imaan mera ( Janjeer)
Songs in Jhanak Jhanak Payal baje (sp Nain to Nain)
Qawwalis in Barsaat ki Raat.
And many more.
-Kalyan
Ashish S Bokil
sm...@Lehigh.EDU (SAMIUDDIN MOHAMMED) writes:
and before that two other ppl had also graced the thread coming out with the
gems like :
>>>He could sing in a way that Kishore was throughly incapable of doing.
>Rajan, he meant that KK wasn't half as good as Manna when it came to singing :-)
now an interesting point to note here is a statement made by Manna Dey when
KK was also alive Don't remember the source .... but the enormity of the effect
of the statement was so much that it transfixed itself in my memory
effortlessly .... am paraphrasing but the meaning remains the same ....
"I wish i could sing like Kishore. He just fills song with life and manytimes i
wish i could do the same" .......
he was thoroughly impressed with kishore's voice and its grandeur [ is i think
the word that comes closest to describing his voice ] and the style with which
now wut say ye'll ?
ashish
Shantanu Goel
In article <3c2roj$19...@fidoii.cc.lehigh.edu> sm...@Lehigh.EDU (SAMIUDDIN MOHAMMED) writes:
>>sami> In article <3c14pc$s...@lace.Colorado.EDU>, parr...@csn.org
>>sami> (Rajan P. Parrikar) writes:
>> In article <1994Dec5.2...@Princeton.EDU>
>> hari...@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Ramesh Hariharan) writes:
>>> He sang with people all the way from Shankar Jaikishan to Murli
>>> Manohar Swarup who did the music for the Ramayana series, but
>>> Manna Dey's inability to stick with one individual who could use
>>> him all the time in his music was what pushed him out of the
>>> music scene. I saw
>> This is a tenuous thesis. Have you considered the possibility
>> that he didn't possess a "screen voice"? By which I mean, one that
>> didn't
>>sami> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Exactly!! Manna's voice
>>sami> had a certain maturity about it which didn't suit a young
>>sami> hero. For instance, the song "Har taraf ab yehi afsaane hain,
>>sami> hum teri aankhon ke diwaane hain...." has been sung in an
>>sami> excellent fashion. But, it wudn't suit a young hero.
As a counter example, I always thought his voice captured the mood
in "Zindagi kaisi hai paheli..", from Anand, rather well for a quite
young Rajesh Khanna. Maybe "philosophical" songs suit him? Can anyone
think of any other examples?
>>> a recent video tape of him in Dubai still singing the same good
>>> old songs. His inability to change with the times may be the
>>> reason no one hears of him anymore. Lata, Kishore, Mukesh all
>>> were able to adjust to the changing scene of contemporary Hindi
>>> film music with the disco and everything else, but Manna dey
>>> preferred to stick to the well worn path of the fifties.
>>sami> But the point is that even in the fifties Manna was not at
>>sami> the top. Although one cannot argue the fact that he was one
>>sami> of the best singers to ever grace the film industry, he
>>sami> wasn't the most popular. I feel that it was ONLY because of
>>sami> his voice.
I agree. Yesterday, I happened to watch Barsaat Ki Raat, and in the
qawwaali "Yeh ishk ishk hai ishk", while Manna Dey was certainly able
to do more vocal gymnastics, Rafi's voice was much more appealing.
Speaking of qawwaali's, a genre I'm really fond of, they seem to have
disappeared from movies since the passing of Rafi. He was, undoubtedly,
the undisputed master in this genre (and quite a few others :-).
Does anyone know of any good recent filmi qawwaali?
>>> It is a shame, for really his only rival in Hindi film music was
>>> Rafi who was always superb.
>> I admire your courage to say something like this:-)
>>sami> .... and I admire ur truthfulness!! :-) (ur = NOT Rajan's)
Perverting Ghalib, with all due respects, one could say,
"Mausiki ke tumhi ustaad nahin Kishore
Kehte hain agle zamane mein koi Rafi bhi tha"
:-)
>>sami> Sami Mohammed (A Naushad fan)
>> Rajan Parrikar
Shantanu
"De aur dil unko jo naa den mujhko zubaan aur"
Rajan P. Parrikar
<deleted>
>As a counter example, I always thought his voice captured the mood
>in "Zindagi kaisi hai paheli..", from Anand, rather well for a quite
>young Rajesh Khanna. Maybe "philosophical" songs suit him? Can anyone
>think of any other examples?
I am immensely fond of this relatively less-talked-about song by Manna
from the film Kinare Kinare (music by Jaidev): "Chale jaa rahe thhe
mohabbat ke maare kinare-kinare..." Can someone provide the lyrics? I
don't think the song is listed in the Itrans book. Kinare Kinare, btw,
had other superb compositions (none of which I can recall now) thanks
to Jaidev.
Pradeep Dubey
But IMHO, I think every time I hear Manna Dey's voice,
(old or new songs), it is extremelly hard for me to
imagine a young hero lip-sync'ing. I believe his voice
for-whatever-reason simply did not suit a young actor.
May be because of lack of "base" (?). He was excellent
for background songs (zindagi kaisi hai paheli, OR,
jaanewale sipahi se poocho), or as a playback for
some dance or song teacher but not for a 20-40 year
old hero in other more common roles.
Assertions such as:
> Mukesh and especially Kishore could never come close
> to him
are best left unresponded unless backed up with at least
little more explanation.
Pradeep
Srinivasa R Raghavan
In article <3c3jp8$a...@lace.Colorado.EDU>, parr...@csn.org (Rajan P. Parrikar) writes:
>
> I am immensely fond of this relatively less-talked-about song by Manna
> from the film Kinare Kinare (music by Jaidev): "Chale jaa rahe thhe
> mohabbat ke maare kinare-kinare..." Can someone provide the lyrics? I
> don't think the song is listed in the Itrans book. Kinare Kinare, btw,
> had other superb compositions (none of which I can recall now) thanks
> to Jaidev.
tamanna*, a song by Rafi. _kinare kinare_ also had a mukesh song,
*Jab gham-e-ishq satata hai to has leta hoon*.
Srinivasa R Raghavan
In article <D0G7n...@hawnews.watson.ibm.com>, pra...@watson.ibm.com (Pradeep Dubey) writes:
>
> I might get flamed by Manna Dey fans for saying this.
> But IMHO, I think every time I hear Manna Dey's voice,
> (old or new songs), it is extremelly hard for me to
> imagine a young hero lip-sync'ing. I believe his voice
> for-whatever-reason simply did not suit a young actor.
> May be because of lack of "base" (?). He was excellent
> for background songs (zindagi kaisi hai paheli, OR,
> jaanewale sipahi se poocho), or as a playback for
> some dance or song teacher but not for a 20-40 year
> old hero in other more common roles.
this is more of an image problem than anything else. i could use the same
argument about SP Balasubramaniam. his voice seems too "heavy" to suit
a young actor...and yet he has become the preferred voice for Salman Khan.
then again, when u hear Manna Dey singing Pyar hua iqrar hua, u would have
no problems imagining a young Raj Kapoor singing to his beloved Nargis.
what happened is that Manna started singing a lot of
classical/ chorus types of songs, and once he had this set IMAGE,
people begin to identify him more with that kind of music.
srinivas
Jagat Mavani
|> I agree with Rajan here. Although Rafi, Mukesh and KK were the favourites of
|> Naushad, Shanky-J and SDB respectively, they did not limit themselves to
|> only those MD's. Moreover, both Shanky-J and SDB have tons of songs with Rafi
|> as well. Having a mentor doesn't always help. Sharda (of the "Titli udi..." notierity (sp?) ) was supposed to be the protege of either Shankar or Jaikishan, but yet couldn't make it big. Of course, one just cannot compare the talents
|> of Sharda and Manna Dey.
|>
|> Sami Mohammed (A Naushad fan)
Sami, I disagree with you here. Mukesh was not the favourite of Shanker-
Jaikishen. They only used him because his voice matched with Raj Kapoor.
One of the trade marks of Shanker Jaikishen was their professionalism. They
rarely played the favourtism game. This was the reason they were able to reach
the top.
You will notice that even with Raj Kapoor they frequently used Manna Dey's
voice.
The honor of using Mukesh's voice for actors other then Raj Kapoor lies at
the feet of other music directors. The most controversial amongst them must
be Salil Chowdhury. He used Mukesh to sing for Dilip Kumar in Madhumati and
for Rajesh Khanna in Anand.
-Jagat Mavani.
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
>I would also recommend Manna Dey's rendition of "Madhushala"
>by Harivansh Rai Bachchan. It is simply too good.
>
>Also Manna Dey may not score on quantity but is unparalleled
>in terms of quality and variety. A very large percentage of
>his songs are hits and are very good. Also they show his versatility.
>I think the reason he doesn't have many songs is because he
>didn't have a team with any music director (Shankar Jaikishen-Mukesh
>etc) nor was he associated with any hero (eg. Dilip-Talat, Dev Anand -
>KK, Shammi - Rafi etc). Thus his services were utilized only for
>some specialized and difficult songs which were perceived to be
>difficult for the Hero's or MD's favourite. I feel that Manna Dey
>is still unmatched for classical songs and his tenor.
>
>Some Manna Dey greats IMHO:
>
>All his songs from Chori Chori (sp AA JA SANAM and Ye Raat Bheegi Bheegi).
>
>All his songs in Navrang(Aadha hai chandrama etc)
The only one from this movie is the duet with Asha Bhosle, "Tu Chhupi
Hai Kahaan". Everything else is sung by Mahendra Kapoor.
>
>Dil ka haal sune dilwala (Shree 420)
>Mur Mur ke na dekh ( " )
>
>Aye meri zohra Zabeen ( Waqt)
>
>Yaari hai imaan mera ( Janjeer)
>
>Songs in Jhanak Jhanak Payal baje (sp Nain to Nain)
Nain so Nain is sung by Hemant Kumar. I don't remember any songs by
Manna Dey from this movie.
Ajay Divekar
Hi netters,
With all the talk about Manna Dey on the net, thought I will contribute in too. Manna Dey no
doubt, has been one of the greats ( amongst singers), we have had in the past. But as far as
'PLAYBACK SINGING' is concerned, there is no way he comes near the versatility and the range
of songs that KK, Rafi and Mukesh (to some extent) exude in their singing. As someone pointed
out,that has something to do with his voice rather than his singing abilities.
Granted Manna Dey and Rafi would rate as probably the top most singers, to date, in terms of
their abilities. KK's plus is something which can barely be quantified, but just heard and
experienced for a 'high of life'! In that context Asha's including of herself and Lata (the
almighty), with the other top three, is plain justified (though least expected of her to be
said in public). I am certain she must have implied, in the field of 'playback singing'.
-Ajay Divekar
--
Gravity is a myth, the earth sucks !!
SAMIUDDIN MOHAMMED
>Sami, I disagree with you here. Mukesh was not the favourite of Shanker-
>Jaikishen. They only used him because his voice matched with Raj Kapoor.
I guess u r right here... they seldom used Mukesh for anyone other than RK.
>One of the trade marks of Shanker Jaikishen was their professionalism. They
>rarely played the favourtism game. This was the reason they were able to reach
>the top.
I don't know whether u can call this favouritism or just prediliction, but Shanky-J always teamed with either Shailendra or Hasrat almost throughout their career....
>The honor of using Mukesh's voice for actors other then Raj Kapoor lies at
>the feet of other music directors.
I agree..... I love Mukesh's sung under the direction of Roshan and Kalyanji Anandji... In the former's case too, it was mostly for RK though.
>The most controversial amongst them must
>be Salil Chowdhury. He used Mukesh to sing for Dilip Kumar in Madhumati and
As I've mentioned on RMIM earlier, Talat was the original singer who was chosen for Madhumati. He let Mukesh sing those songs in order to boost the latter's career.
Sami Mohammed (A Naushad fan)
>-Jagat Mavani.
Ambrish Sundaram
the best of my knowledge, there is another Manna Dey - Asha Bhonsle duet in
Navrang (apart from the one mentioned - Tu chhupi hai kahaan). This song that I
am referring to starts of with some 'Rang de re' or something similar. In fact
I do have it on my CD. The song also has V.Shantaram speaking at the end of it,
giving the listener an intro about the movie. He describes how he got hurt
during the shooting of Do Aankhen Baarah Haath, but how he he has still come
back, refreshed and invigorated, and other such stuff. I donot know whether the
song actually figures in the movie, but I definitely know that this song was
recorded for Navrang.
Also, as an aside, in another thread, regarding the correction for RJGK # 16,
where Navrang was the point of discussion, I remembering somebody telling that
the hero of Navrang was some new guy (???) etc. Well, the hero of Navrang was
Mahipal, another 'dancing' hero, on the same lines as Gopikrishna.
Cheers
Ambrish - asun...@eccdb1.pms.ford.com
Preetham Gopalaswamy
>Kinare Kinare, btw, had other superb compositions (none of which I can
>recall now) thanks to Jaidev.
Here are the songs in the film that I recall off-hand. Every one of them is
a beauty, particularly the relatively rare Lata solo (I jumped out of my chair
with joy when I first got a hold of it).
1] Dekh li teri khudaai : Talat Mehmood
2] Jab gam-e-ishq sataata hai : Mukesh
3] Chale ja rahe haiN muhabbat ke maare : Manna Dey
4] Teri tasveer bhi tujh jaisi : Mohammad Rafi
5] Har aas ashqbaar hai : Lata Mangeshkar
Notice how Jaidev has used 4 different male voices for the 4 songs. I think
this is a result of his having been SD's assistant. I remember reading/hearing
somewhere that SD liked to use more than one singer in his films for the same
actor kind of like a safety net method. If one did not click, perhaps the
other would.
A couple of other interesting points in "Kinaare Kinaare". There is a long
musical piece in the film (right after Dev Anand and Meena Kumari's characters
get married) which is the exact same tune and music of the song "Juhi si
kali meri laaDli, naazoN ki pali meri laaDli" from the film "Dil Ek Mandir".
Now the latter song has music by SJ and I do not recall Jaidev ever being
their assistant and so this connection is weird. Also, I think "Kinaare
Kinaare" was released before "Dil Ek Mandir". This is not a case of lifted
tunes, but it is identical, including the music.
The other interesting thing was that the initial list of playback singers
does not include Mukesh although his song in the film was a big hit. However
Asha and Sudha Malhotra's names were there, but their songs seemed to have
been cut (that could well have been an editing job by the video company).
I could see a couple of places where there was potential for a song, but the
scene ended quite abruptly. Those could very well have been the cut songs.
If only I had the encyclopaedia with me to check out the names of all the
songs in the film.
>I am immensely fond of this relatively less-talked-about song by Manna
>from the film Kinare Kinare (music by Jaidev): "Chale jaa rahe thhe
>mohabbat ke maare kinare-kinare..." Can someone provide the lyrics? I
>don't think the song is listed in the Itrans book.
Aap maaNgeN aur ham na deN, aisi to halaat nahi :-) :-)
This is indeed a beautiful composition, excellently rendered.
===============================================================================
Film : Kinaare Kinaare
*ring : Dev Anand, Meena Kumari, Chetan Anand
Music : Jaidev
Lyrics : Nyaya Sharma
Singer : Manna Dey
Chale jaa rahe haiN muhabbat ke maare
kinaare kinaare, kinaare kinaare
chale jaa rahe haiN .....
Na saahil ki parvaah na toofaN ka Dar hai
na zulmoN ka shikva, na gam ka asar hai
ummedoN ke bal pe diloN ke sahaare
chale jaa rahe haiN kinaare kinaare, kinaare kinaare
chale jaa rahe haiN .....
Tamanna yahi hai ki lehroN se kheleN
naseeboN ki gardish ko haNs haNske jheleN
umangoN ki raah me bichhakar sitaare
chale jaa rahe haiN kinaare kinaare, kinaare kinaare
chale jaa rahe haiN .....
===============================================================================
Preetham
Preetham Gopalaswamy
In article <3c9tl6$d...@eccdb1.pms.ford.com>, asundar2@PROBLEM_WITH_INEWS_GATEWAY_FILE (Ambrish Sundaram) writes:
>I remember somebody mentioning that Manna Dey had only one song in Navrang. To
>the best of my knowledge, there is another Manna Dey - Asha Bhonsle duet in
>Navrang (apart from the one mentioned - Tu chhupi hai kahaan). This song that I
>am referring to starts of with some 'Rang de re' or something similar. In fact
>I do have it on my CD. The song also has V.Shantaram speaking at the end of it,
>giving the listener an intro about the movie. He describes how he got hurt
>during the shooting of Do Aankhen Baarah Haath, but how he he has still come
>back, refreshed and invigorated, and other such stuff. I donot know whether the
>song actually figures in the movie, but I definitely know that this song was
>recorded for Navrang.
The song is the title song of the film (i.e. it plays while the credits roll
in the beginning). I saw the film almost 15 years ago on Doordarshan and do
not recall the voice-over by Shantaram. I am quite fond of this song,
especially cause both Manna Dey and Asha do a great job with the semiclassical
tune. It would be nice to hear it without Shantaram's voice (I think that is
a more recent addition).
>Also, as an aside, in another thread, regarding the correction for RJGK # 16,
>where Navrang was the point of discussion, I remembering somebody telling that
>the hero of Navrang was some new guy (???) etc. Well, the hero of Navrang was
>Mahipal, another 'dancing' hero, on the same lines as Gopikrishna.
I am not sure Mahipal was a "dancing" hero. Of course, the one thing he DID
have in common with GopiKrishna was that neither could act to save their
lives. Of course with Sandhya as their heroine ("Jhanak Jhanak Paayal Baaje"
and "Navrang"), they made quite the pair.
Mahipal did do a couple of other films that I know of "Parasmani" (LP's first
film as music director) and "Zabak" (music by Chitragupta). The former had
an exceptional score while the latter had atleast one famous duet by Rafi and
Lata ("Teri duniya se door chale hoke majboor, hame yaad rakhna")
Preetham
Sandeep Joshi
>I remember somebody mentioning that Manna Dey had only one song in Navrang. To
>the best of my knowledge, there is another Manna Dey - Asha Bhonsle duet in
>Navrang (apart from the one mentioned - Tu chhupi hai kahaan). This song that I
>am referring to starts of with some 'Rang de re' or something similar. In fact
>I do have it on my CD. The song also has V.Shantaram speaking at the end of it,
>giving the listener an intro about the movie. He describes how he got hurt
>during the shooting of Do Aankhen Baarah Haath, but how he he has still come
>back, refreshed and invigorated, and other such stuff. I donot know whether the
>song actually figures in the movie, but I definitely know that this song was
>recorded for Navrang.
I think there is another Manna song in "Navrang" (unless ambrish and me are
referring to the same song; i haven't seen "Navrang").
it's a manna-asha duet:
"aray ja re hat natkhat na khol mera ghunghat palat ke doongi aaj tuzhe gaali re"
*******************************************************************************
sirf ehesaas hai ye rooh se mehesoos karo
pyaar ko pyaar hi rehene do koi naam na do
Sandeep Joshi 318 Riggs Hall,
Department of Mechanical Engineering,
Tel. : Off. - (803) 656-1126 Clemson University,
Res. - (803) 654-4032 Clemson, SC 29634.
Email : sjo...@eng.clemson.edu
*******************************************************************************
Ashish S Bokil
>In article <3c9tl6$d...@eccdb1.pms.ford.com>, asundar2@PROBLEM_WITH_INEWS_GATEWAY_FILE (Ambrish Sundaram) writes:
>>The song also has V.Shantaram speaking at the end of it,
>>giving the listener an intro about the movie. He describes how he got hurt
>>during the shooting of Do Aankhen Baarah Haath, but how he he has still come
>>back, refreshed and invigorated, and other such stuff. I donot know whether the
>>song actually figures in the movie, but I definitely know that this song was
>>recorded for Navrang.
pree...@eng.umd.edu (Preetham Gopalaswamy) writes:
>in the beginning). I saw the film almost 15 years ago on Doordarshan and do
>not recall the voice-over by Shantaram. It would be nice to hear it without
>Shantaram's voice (I think that is a more recent addition).
Well...well .. well .... i remember watching this movie on Doordarshan not
so long as 15 years ago .. but more like 10 years ago .. :) ... and i remember
this remark by Shantaram sometimes during the movie or the end of it .. or the
beginning of it .. [ this is like Lala Amarnath Cricket commentary .."this
match will in all probability be won by India ... otherwise Pakistan will win
it .. or as a last probability the match could be a draw" :)] but anyways ...
the point is ... he does say this thing about his being injured and having lost
his vision for a short time .. and how even then he could just visualize colors
in his dreams .. a beautiful goddess dancing in the midst of colors and all :)
and he was so influenced by his images that he decide to put the dreams on
celluloid ..... i couldn't imagine he picturised himself in his dreams as
"Mahipal" .. i mean ... if i at all have to dream about myself ... then i would
rather dream about myself being myself (AB) or the other AB ;-) i.e. Amitabh
Bachchan ... !! but oh! well .... ;-)
ashish
Prince Kohli
In article <3c9v2m$q...@mojo.eng.umd.edu>, pree...@eng.umd.edu (Preetham Gopalaswamy) writes:
|>
|> lives. Of course with Sandhya as their heroine ("Jhanak Jhanak Paayal Baaje"
|> and "Navrang"), they made quite the pair.
|> Mahipal did do a couple of other films that I know of "Parasmani" (LP's first
|> film as music director) and "Zabak" (music by Chitragupta). The former had
|> an exceptional score while the latter had atleast one famous duet by Rafi and
|> Lata ("Teri duniya se door chale hoke majboor, hame yaad rakhna")
Wasn't he also the hero of "Sehra" (with Sandhya)? The one that had the
song "paNkh hote to uD aati re?" I guess Vandana V. will know :-)
BTW, rumor has it that the little girl in that song running around
Sandhya was Mumtaz.
-Prince
Sandhya Rao
>
>Wasn't he also the hero of "Sehra" (with Sandhya)? The one that had the
>song "paNkh hote to uD aati re?" I guess Vandana V. will know :-)
>
>BTW, rumor has it that the little girl in that song running around
>Sandhya was Mumtaz.
>
Yes it was! There is a nice song in this movie - sung separately by Rafi and
Lata.
I forget the song, but I do remember that the Rafi version is better!
-Sandhya
>-Prince
Preetham Gopalaswamy
While we are on the subject of Shantaram's films (that whole "Navrang" thing)
I have a question for anyone who may have seen "Jhanak Jhanak Payaal Baaje"
recently. Is there any other version of the title song in the film (other
than the one by Amir Khan) ??? I vaguely recall a few lines of the song
being sung by Hemant Kumar, but am not sure and do not have the patience to
sit thru the whole film again just to find out :-)
Preetham
Preetham Gopalaswamy
In article <3caets$g...@usenet.srv.cis.pitt.edu>, r...@amtor.phyast.pitt.edu (Sandhya Rao) writes:
>
>Yes it was! There is a nice song in this movie - sung separately by Rafi and
>Lata.
Taqdeer ka fasaana jaakar kise sunaayeN.
And this is one case where I agree, the male version is better.
P
Srinivasa R Raghavan
In article <3caca0$h...@excepcion.cc.gatech.edu>, pko...@cc.gatech.edu (Prince Kohli) writes:
> Wasn't he also the hero of "Sehra" (with Sandhya)? The one that had the
> song "paNkh hote to uD aati re?" I guess Vandana V. will know :-)
>
> BTW, rumor has it that the little girl in that song running around
> Sandhya was Mumtaz.
interesting! can anybody else confirm?
srinivas
bh...@uwyo.edu
isnt there another maanna dey duet in navrang in that holi dance
'aaaya holi ka tyohar...'
saurabh
Jagat Mavani
|> In article <941208141...@sst23-8.watson.ibm.com>, mav...@watson.ibm.com (Jagat Mavani) writes:
|>
|> >Sami, I disagree with you here. Mukesh was not the favourite of Shanker-
|> >Jaikishen. They only used him because his voice matched with Raj Kapoor.
|>
|> I guess u r right here... they seldom used Mukesh for anyone other than RK.
|>
|> >One of the trade marks of Shanker Jaikishen was their professionalism. They
|> >rarely played the favourtism game. This was the reason they were able to reach
|> >the top.
|>
|> I don't know whether u can call this favouritism or just prediliction, but Shanky-J always teamed with either Shailendra or Hasrat almost throughout their career....
|
is anything other then a professional decision. It was a team that worked well in the
past, so why change it? Taking it a step further you can call it favouritism that Shanker
teamed up with Jaikishen or the fact that in their orchestra they did not use
(a hypothetical guess) a guitarist or violin player from S.D.Burman's orchestra.
And having two lyricist's to work for you almost gurantee's you the fact that you
can get a resonable song for any given movie situation.
>
|>
|> >The honor of using Mukesh's voice for actors other then Raj Kapoor lies at
|> >the feet of other music directors.
|>
|> I agree..... I love Mukesh's sung under the direction of Roshan and Kalyanji Anandji... In the former's case too, it was mostly for RK though.
|>
|> >The most controversial amongst them must
|> >be Salil Chowdhury. He used Mukesh to sing for Dilip Kumar in Madhumati and
|>
|> As I've mentioned on RMIM earlier, Talat was the original singer who was chosen for Madhumati. He let Mukesh sing those songs in order to boost the latter's career.
|>
|> Sami Mohammed (A Naushad fan)
|>
|> >-Jagat Mavani.
|>
-Jagat Mavani
Ram Poduri
I recently saw this song on tape, and I can indeed confirm that the "sidey"
dancing about with Sandhya IS Mumtaz! A very very young Mumtaz, but very
obviously Mumtaz! We had great fun rewinding and re-watching every move of
hers!
Ramakrishna Poduri
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
>In article d...@eccdb1.pms.ford.com, asundar2@PROBLEM_WITH_INEWS_GATEWAY_FILE (Ambrish Sundaram) writes:
>>I remember somebody mentioning that Manna Dey had only one song in Navrang. To
>>the best of my knowledge, there is another Manna Dey - Asha Bhonsle duet in
>>Navrang (apart from the one mentioned - Tu chhupi hai kahaan). This song that I
>>am referring to starts of with some 'Rang de re' or something similar. In fact
>>I do have it on my CD. The song also has V.Shantaram speaking at the end of it,
>>giving the listener an intro about the movie. He describes how he got hurt
>>during the shooting of Do Aankhen Baarah Haath, but how he he has still come
>>back, refreshed and invigorated, and other such stuff. I donot know whether the
>>song actually figures in the movie, but I definitely know that this song was
>>recorded for Navrang.
>
>I think there is another Manna song in "Navrang" (unless ambrish and me are
>referring to the same song; i haven't seen "Navrang").
>
>it's a manna-asha duet:
>
>"aray ja re hat natkhat na khol mera ghunghat palat ke doongi aaj tuzhe gaali re"
Nope. The male vocals on this song are by Mahendra Kapoor.
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
I also remember this. While the original version by Amir Khan is based
in Raga Adana, there is another one later in the movie (almost at the
end) sung by Lata and Hemant Kumar, based on Raga Basant, I think-again
I think it's just a few lines.
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
Renu Thamma
>>where Navrang was the point of discussion, I remembering somebody telling that
>>the hero of Navrang was some new guy (???) etc. Well, the hero of Navrang was
>>Mahipal, another 'dancing' hero, on the same lines as Gopikrishna.
>
> I am not sure Mahipal was a "dancing" hero. Of course, the one thing he DID
> have in common with GopiKrishna was that neither could act to save their
> lives. Of course with Sandhya as their heroine ("Jhanak Jhanak Paayal Baaje"
> and "Navrang"), they made quite the pair.
> Mahipal did do a couple of other films that I know of "Parasmani" (LP's first
> film as music director) and "Zabak" (music by Chitragupta). The former had
> an exceptional score while the latter had atleast one famous duet by Rafi and
> Lata ("Teri duniya se door chale hoke majboor, hame yaad rakhna")
Regarding Mahipal's films, and acting abilities ( or rather the lack of them )
wasn't `Jal bin machli nritya bin bijli' a Mahipal movie too? It had two songs
that I can recollect off-hand . One was the Mukesh (?) solo `Taaron mein saj ke
apni sooraj se dekho dharti chali milne', and the other one `Man ki pyaas mere
man se na nikli, aise tadpoon main jaise jal bin machli', which is probably a
Lata rendition. Who was the MD for this film? It co-starred Sandhya, a face so
wooden, you could carve a chair out of it.
Info anyone?
Renu.
Preetham Gopalaswamy
In article <1994Dec1...@axp2.umkc.edu>, rth...@axp2.umkc.edu (Renu Thamma) writes:
>
>Regarding Mahipal's films, and acting abilities ( or rather the lack of them )
>wasn't `Jal bin machli nritya bin bijli' a Mahipal movie too? It had two songs
>that I can recollect off-hand . One was the Mukesh (?) solo `Taaron mein saj ke
>apni sooraj se dekho dharti chali milne', and the other one `Man ki pyaas mere
>man se na nikli, aise tadpoon main jaise jal bin machli', which is probably a
>Lata rendition. Who was the MD for this film? It co-starred Sandhya, a face so
>wooden, you could carve a chair out of it.
The music for "Jal Bin Machhli ...." was by Laxmikant-Pyaarelal, which would
explain the lousy score (although it was pretty early LP stuff which could be
decent). Oh well, it was a lousy film too. Do not recall the hero though,
but I thought the heroine was Rajshri (Shantaram's daughter), not Sandhya.
P
Sandeep Joshi
>Regarding Mahipal's films, and acting abilities ( or rather the lack of them )
>wasn't `Jal bin machli nritya bin bijli' a Mahipal movie too? It had two songs
>that I can recollect off-hand . One was the Mukesh (?) solo `Taaron mein saj ke
>apni sooraj se dekho dharti chali milne', and the other one `Man ki pyaas mere
>man se na nikli, aise tadpoon main jaise jal bin machli', which is probably a
>Lata rendition. Who was the MD for this film? It co-starred Sandhya, a face so
>wooden, you could carve a chair out of it.
yup preetham, the MDs were indeed LP. there is another song by lata in JBMNBB;
i may be wrong with a couple of words, but the general idea of the song is:
"kajraa lagaaike, ho bindiyaa sajaaike,
ho aayee main to aayee re aayee mohe laaee milan dhun piya ki"
*******************************************************************************
Sandeep Joshi 318 Riggs Hall,
Department of Mechanical Engineering,
Tel. : Off. - (803) 656-1126 Clemson University,
Res. - (803) 654-4032 Clemson, SC 29634.
FAX : (803) 654-4032
Email : sjo...@eng.clemson.edu
*******************************************************************************
SAMIUDDIN MOHAMMED
>
>1] Dekh li teri khudaai : Talat Mehmood
>2] Jab gam-e-ishq sataata hai : Mukesh
>3] Chale ja rahe haiN muhabbat ke maare : Manna Dey
>4] Teri tasveer bhi tujh jaisi : Mohammad Rafi
>5] Har aas ashqbaar hai : Lata Mangeshkar
>
>Notice how Jaidev has used 4 different male voices for the 4 songs. I think
A Q: Were all the songs picturized on dAnand ?
>The other interesting thing was that the initial list of playback singers
>does not include Mukesh although his song in the film was a big hit. However
>Asha and Sudha Malhotra's names were there, but their songs seemed to have
>been cut (that could well have been an editing job by the video company).
Here's another incident related to the list of playback singers. I recently
watched Aadmi, and the list of playback singers excluded Talat Mehmood. I distinctly remembered that the Talat/Rafi duet "Kitni hasin aaj bahaaron (?) ki raat hai, ek chand aasmaan me hai ek mere saath hai..." was from this movie. I started voicing my opinion until my roomie cooly asked me to shut up and watch the movie :-) Finally, it turned out that in the movie, Mahendra Kapoor sings this duet for Manoj Kumar while Dilip's part is sung by Rafi. I had never heard this version before. Anyway, I felt that mKaps did a much better job than Talat whose voice seemed to pale in Rafi's comparison.
Another titles tidbit. I was surprised to find that the background music of
Kala Pathhar (MD: Rajesh Roshan) was credited to Salil Chaudary! I wonder why he took up the job of composing only the background score ??
Sami Mohammed (A Naushad fan)
> Preetham
Pradeep Dubey
|> In article <3c9uib$q...@mojo.eng.umd.edu>, pree...@eng.umd.edu (Preetham Gopalaswamy) writes:
|> >
|> >1] Dekh li teri khudaai : Talat Mehmood
|> >2] Jab gam-e-ishq sataata hai : Mukesh
|> >3] Chale ja rahe haiN muhabbat ke maare : Manna Dey
|> >4] Teri tasveer bhi tujh jaisi : Mohammad Rafi
|> >5] Har aas ashqbaar hai : Lata Mangeshkar
|> >
|> >Notice how Jaidev has used 4 different male voices for the 4 songs. I think
|>
|> A Q: Were all the songs picturized on dAnand ?
|>
|>
|> >The other interesting thing was that the initial list of playback singers
|> >does not include Mukesh although his song in the film was a big hit. However
|> >Asha and Sudha Malhotra's names were there, but their songs seemed to have
|> >been cut (that could well have been an editing job by the video company).
|>
|> Here's another incident related to the list of playback singers. I recently
|> mKaps did a much better job than Talat whose voice seemed to pale in Rafi's comparison.
I had pointed out this MK-Rafi duet long time back on SCI in the "rare duets"
category. This is the ONLY song I know of where these two have sung together.
MK IMHO lived in Rafi's shadow and was only remembered by MDs for those
high notes, he was capable of reaching (as in: na munh chupaa ke jiyo).
OPN used Rafi and MK for the same hero (who was he?) in "ye raat phir na
aayegee". BTW this movie had some wonderful songs, and as Preetham had
noted recently, OPN was the only MD who gave serious consideration to Asha
and her talents (may just be due to his rift with Lata). And Asha sang
some beautiful songs in this:
- dil ke hazaar tukde (??) : a beautiful song, words escape me (starting song)
- main shaayad tumhaare liye ajanabee hoon
- yahi wo jagah hai (a favorite song of saxophone players)
- ... some more that I cannot recall
Some other random questions:
BTW did Lata ever sing some "cabaret" number ? Or she passed
all those to Asha?
Why did a capable MD such SDB chose Rafi for a song like
"sar jo tera chakaraaye", instead of Kishore-Da? I assume even
Rafi-fans would agree that Kishore would have done wonders with
such a song (right Sami ?).
Sorry for mixing too many thoughts in this posting, should have paid
more attention ... next time ...
Pradeep
P.S. Since I have already said "sorry", why not add another random
question for all you bollywood-buffs on rmim:
Has there ever been a movie where prayers to God (or gods) were
not answered positively? I mean something like: the heroine prays:
"he bhagawan mera beta ki raksha kar" and the god (God) fails and
the "beta" can not be saved. Don't the directors realize that
this observation makes it very easy to predict the movie sequence,
every time a prayer is inserted in the movie.
Preetham Gopalaswamy
In article <D0ruB...@hawnews.watson.ibm.com>, pra...@watson.ibm.com (Pradeep Dubey) writes:
>
>MK IMHO lived in Rafi's shadow and was only remembered by MDs for those
>high notes, he was capable of reaching (as in: na munh chupaa ke jiyo).
>OPN used Rafi and MK for the same hero (who was he?) in "ye raat phir na
>aayegee".
I think he used to be called the "poor man's Rafi". I personally never liked
him too much other than the occasional gems like "Shyaamal shyaamal baraN,
komal komal umang" from "Navrang" (one of my favorites of his), "Yeh hawa
yeh hawa yeh hawa" from "Gumraah" and the fantastic "ChhoDkar tere pyaar ka
daaman" from "Woh Kaun Thhi ?" (which I think had more to do with Madan Mohan
than Mahendra Kapoor. However, I am being unduly harsh on him, but he was
unfortunately singing at a time when Rafi, Kishore, Manna Dey and Hemant were
at their peak. From what I have heard, he burnt a lot of bridges in the
industry by being quite the jerk and that was why he never really made it big
even when Rafi was on the decline in the 70s and Mukesh was dead.
>BTW this movie had some wonderful songs, and as Preetham had
>noted recently, OPN was the only MD who gave serious consideration to Asha
>and her talents (may just be due to his rift with Lata). And Asha sang
>some beautiful songs in this:
>
>- yahi wo jagah hai (a favorite song of saxophone players)
This has got to be one of the most beautiful Asha songs (right up there with
"Chain se hamko kabhi". The "dard" in her voice is intense and yet it is done
with such a delicate touch.
>- ... some more that I cannot recall
Here is a list of songs in "Yeh Raat Phir Na Aayegi"
The film starred Biswajeet and Sharmila Tagore (I think)
1] Huzoorewaala, jo ho ijaazat : Asha Bhonsle, Minoo
2] Yahi woh jagah hai : Asha Bhonsle
3] Aap se maine meri jaan : Asha, Rafi (one of my favorite OPN duets)
4] Mai shaayad tumhaare liye : Asha Bhonsle
5] Phir miloge kabhi is baat ka : Asha, Rafi
6] Har tukDa mere dil ka : Asha
7] Mera pyaar woh hai : Mahendra Kapoor
>Some other random questions:
>
>BTW did Lata ever sing some "cabaret" number ? Or she passed
>all those to Asha?
No, she certainly has attempted her share of cabarets. One that SHE always
chooses to cite when asked this question is the song "Aa jaaneja, aa mera
yeh husn jawaaN, jawaaN" from the film "Inteqaam". However, listening to her
sing, it could well be a bhajan. My standard joke about the scene is that
Helen has to work major overtime to make it seem like a cabaret. However,
Lata has done a few very nice cabarets under Bappi's music in the 70s. I have
heard a couple of them and they are very very good. She was unable to bring
the seductiveness into them that Asha so effortlessly did, but she did all the
vocal gymnastics in the songs beautifully. I have also heard of (not heard it
yet) a Lata cabaret under the music direction of Naushad in the 70s. Now that
would be worth getting hold of.
>Why did a capable MD such SDB chose Rafi for a song like
>"sar jo tera chakaraaye", instead of Kishore-Da? I assume even
>Rafi-fans would agree that Kishore would have done wonders with
>such a song (right Sami ?).
Couple of points, Rafi almost always sang for Johnny Walker. Between the
actor and the singer, they came up with some really great songs. Examples are
"Hum tum jise kehta hai shaadi" from "Kaagaz Ke Phool" and "Yeh hai bambai meri
jaan" from CID. Secondly KK would not sing for anyone other than Dev Anand
and himself in that period. Thirdly, I am not sure that KK would have done
wonders with that song. Johnny Walker was a comic but he never clowned around
to the extent that KK did in his films. I think that Rafi does a marvellous
job in this particular case.
>Has there ever been a movie where prayers to God (or gods) were
>not answered positively? I mean something like: the heroine prays:
>"he bhagawan mera beta ki raksha kar" and the god (God) fails and
>the "beta" can not be saved. Don't the directors realize that
>this observation makes it very easy to predict the movie sequence,
>every time a prayer is inserted in the movie.
Especially if there is a song sequence with Lata singing :-) :-) You just
know that God could not resist that voice.
Speaking of which, I always found it amusing when some of the actresses who
played the mother lip synched to the voice of Asha or Lata. Some of the
funniest I have seen are Asha (or Sudha Malhotra) singing for Leela Chitnis or
Achla Sachdev in "Kaala Bazaar" (the song was "Na mai dhan chaahooN") and
at the top of the list is Asha singing for Lalita Pawar in the old "Parvarish"
(a beauuuuuuuuutiful song "Jhoome re, jhoome re o meri god me taare me jhoom")
Preetham
Sanjay
Gopalaswamy) wrote:
> In article <D0ruB...@hawnews.watson.ibm.com>, pra...@watson.ibm.com
(Pradeep Dubey) writes:
> >
> >MK IMHO lived in Rafi's shadow and was only remembered by MDs for those
> >high notes, he was capable of reaching (as in: na munh chupaa ke jiyo).
> >OPN used Rafi and MK for the same hero (who was he?) in "ye raat phir na
> >aayegee".
>
> I think he used to be called the "poor man's Rafi". I personally never liked
> him too much other than the occasional gems like "Shyaamal shyaamal baraN,
> komal komal umang" from "Navrang" (one of my favorites of his), "Yeh hawa
> yeh hawa yeh hawa" from "Gumraah" and the fantastic "ChhoDkar tere pyaar ka
> daaman" from "Woh Kaun Thhi ?" (which I think had more to do with Madan Mohan
> than Mahendra Kapoor. However, I am being unduly harsh on him, but he was
> unfortunately singing at a time when Rafi, Kishore, Manna Dey and Hemant were
> at their peak. From what I have heard, he burnt a lot of bridges in the
> industry by being quite the jerk and that was why he never really made it big
> even when Rafi was on the decline in the 70s and Mukesh was dead.
>
What I believe is that if a singer has good songs ("gems", in the above
description), then the calibre of the singer should not be in doubt. What
matters then is, how good the MD uses that singer to perform. It is little
wonder then that present day MDs have reduced the level of the songs by
established singers like Lata/Asha to pure trash. Consider the same Lata
singing for MDs like Shiv-Hari and right away the quality looks so
much better (this is not to dispute the fact that Lata's voice now appears
less sweet than before).
MK was used quite a lot by Ravi, and also by OPN. It is a strange
coincidence that MK's songs by Ravi are very popular (Ravi had scored
consistently
good music, and perhaps still composes), and yet neither MK nor Ravi were
really acknowledged as "stars" of the music industry. I do not think that
this was due to the fact that there were quite a few MDs competing. For
some unknown reason, Ravi was one of the less noticed/acknowledged MDs.
People generally quote the standard MDs' names when comparing music and
Ravi is forgotten. I suppose he was never involved in a major
event/controversy during his earlier career to create waves :-). I do not
know anything about him other than his music, and even at the risk of
sidetracking from the main topic here (Manna Dey) I feel obligated to name
a few songs of his that have resounded regularly the Vividh Bharati
airwaves. Here it goes, with missing details:
1. Songs of Gumrah
2. Songs of Waqt
3. Aap ki inayaten aap ke karam ( Lata - Film Vandana)
4. Raha gardishon mein hardam mere ishq (Rafi, Manoj + Asha P)
5. A few other songs from the same movie as in 4
6. zindagi kya hai gam ka dariya hai ( Rafi)
7. Songs of Nikah
8. Ye raaten ye mausam nadi ka kinara ( KK, Asha - Dilli ka Thug)
9. Ye khamoshian ye tanhaiyan (Rafi, Asha - movie ??)
10. Garibon ki suno wo tumhari sunega (Dus Lakh)
11. Ai mere dile naadan tu gam se na ghabarana ( Lata - Tower House)
12. Main khushnasseb hoon mujhko (Mukesh - Tower House)
This is just a small subset of the immensely hit songs of Ravi (here
I am defining a hit song using a criterion of how often it is played on
Vividh Bharati + the local radio station). There are many many more that
I have failed to mention here being out of touch. Thanks for bearing with
this digression.
- Sanjay
SAMIUDDIN MOHAMMED
>high notes, he was capable of reaching (as in: na munh chupaa ke jiyo).
IMHO, the difference bet. Rafi and mKapoor was that Rafi the reached high notes
effortlessly, while the latter ended up shouting. He has really put in a lot of effort in "Na munh chhupkae jie...." esp. in the portion "andheri raat ke, eee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee" :-) dil me die jala ki jio, but tends to shout a little.
>- yahi wo jagah hai (a favorite song of saxophone players)
Oh, this one is a beauuuuuutiful song by Asha. Definitely among her very best!
Yehi woh jagah hai, yehi woh phiza hai, jahan par kabhi aap humse mile thhe. Excellent song!
>Why did a capable MD such SDB chose Rafi for a song like
>"sar jo tera chakaraaye", instead of Kishore-Da? I assume even
>Rafi-fans would agree that Kishore would have done wonders with
>such a song (right Sami ?).
NO WAY! Rafi has not only sung this song very well, but has also imitated Johhny perfectly. It's amazing how he can change his voice between this song and
"Tang aa chuke hain kashmakash-e-zindagi se hum....". Rafi and Johnny had some excellent songs.
>Has there ever been a movie where prayers to God (or gods) were
>not answered positively? I mean something like: the heroine prays:
:-) This is a great observation ! An usually, if the hero is asking for something, he says, "Bhagwan, maine aaj tak tujhse kuch nahin maanga" :-)
SAMIUDDIN MOHAMMED
>MK was used quite a lot by Ravi, and also by OPN. It is a strange
>coincidence that MK's songs by Ravi are very popular (Ravi had scored
>consistently
>good music, and perhaps still composes), and yet neither MK nor Ravi were
>really acknowledged as "stars" of the music industry. I do not think that
>this was due to the fact that there were quite a few MDs competing. For
I beg to differ here. I do think that Ravi was eclipsed by stalwarts such as
Naushad, Roshan, SDB, CR, Madan Mohan etc. who ruled the 50s and the 60s.
>some unknown reason, Ravi was one of the less noticed/acknowledged MDs.
>People generally quote the standard MDs' names when comparing music and
>Ravi is forgotten.
I do agree that Ravi didn't receive his due recognition.
>sidetracking from the main topic here (Manna Dey) I feel obligated to name
>a few songs of his that have resounded regularly the Vividh Bharati
>airwaves. Here it goes, with missing details:
>
> 1. Songs of Gumrah
> 2. Songs of Waqt
IMHO, Sahir stole the show in Gumraah, Waqt and Hamraaz. What excellent lyrics!
Such lyrics don't need an above average score to sound good. Perhaps that was the reason why Ravi wasn't lauded for his efforts.
> 4. Raha gardishon mein hardam mere ishq (Rafi, Manoj + Asha P)
This is an excellent song. Ravi has composed music for quite a few GHazals such as "Bhari duniya me aaquir dil ko samjhaane kahan jaaen..." and "Is bhari duniya me koi bhi humara na hua..", not to mention "Dil ke armaan aansuon me beh gae..." Another GHazal which I adore is "Ye waadiyan, ye fizaaen bula rahi hain tumhe...: This is Sahir as well, but the tune is wonderful too!
> 7. Songs of Nikah
This was a refreshing change in the early 80's. Abhay had posted a nice piece on Ravi last year....
> 11. Ai mere dile naadan tu gam se na ghabarana ( Lata - Tower House)
This is another excellent song. I always thought this was Madan Mohan. Another beautiful Ravin song is from the movie Ek Saal "Sab kuch luTake hosh me aae to kya kiya..." (Talat, Lata)
>I have failed to mention here being out of touch. Thanks for bearing with
>this digression.
Thanks for the digression :-)
Sami Mohammed (A Naushad fan)
>- Sanjay
SAMIUDDIN MOHAMMED
sdh...@qualcomm.com (Sanjay) writes:
>> I beg to differ here. I do think that Ravi was eclipsed by stalwarts such
>as
>> Naushad, Roshan, SDB, CR, Madan Mohan etc. who ruled the 50s and the 60s.
>>
>
>knowledge, all from after the mid 60s. If that is true, than the fact
>that Roshan/SDB etc. ruled the 50s and 60s has no bearing on the the lack
>of widespread popularity of Ravi. Also, the point that I was trying to
>make by saying ".. do not think that this was due to the fact that there
>were quite a few MDs competing" was that if there are x number of successful
>music directors competing, where x > 5, then it does not preclude the x +
>1 director to compete for success/popularity if his/her songs are in great
>demand (as has been proved using the Vividh Bharati criterion).
I guess we r talking about two diff. things here. Are we talking about the
popularity of Ravi's songs or his fame and recognition as compared to the
other MD's ? If the former, then I agree that some of his songs are very
popular, although Sahir walked away with the credit in films such as Gumraah
and Hamraaz.
But yes, the presence of popular songs of MD's such as Naushad and SDB ought
not to have affected the popularity of Ravi's songs.
But, if we are talking about fame and recognition which depends more on
quality and consistency, then yes, the competition at that time did affect
Ravi. He was good, no doubt about it. But compared to stalwarts such as
Naushad and Roshan, he was mediocre, although he did exhibit flashes of
brilliance. But I still maintain that Ravi received less recognition than he
deserved.
>So I do not attribute their lack of success to the fact that there were
>others around, which too is yet to be established if someone can identify
>the years these popular songs were created. My theory is that Ravi failed
>to stir up a controversy like refusing to have Lata sing for her (OPN),
>or that he kept a low-key profile. :-)
:-) Ah yes, Naushad and Roshan were famous because they didn't want KK to sing
for them. CR made it big 'cause he didn't like Rafi much. And Madan Mohan ?
Perhaps he didn't want Johnny Walker to sing for him :-)
Sami Mohammed (A Naushad fan)
>- Sanjay
******************************************************************************
***
Lines for the day:
Kisike husn ki bas ek kiran hi kaafi hai
Ye log kyun mere aage hai shamma laae hue
Rajinder Krishn in "Kisike yaad me duniya ko hai bhulaae hue..."
******************************************************************************
***
Sanjay
MOHAMMED) wrote:
> In article <sdhanda-1312...@sdhanda-mac.qualcomm.com>,
sdh...@qualcomm.com (Sanjay) writes:
>
>
> >MK was used quite a lot by Ravi, and also by OPN. It is a strange
> >coincidence that MK's songs by Ravi are very popular (Ravi had scored
> >consistently
> >good music, and perhaps still composes), and yet neither MK nor Ravi were
> >really acknowledged as "stars" of the music industry. I do not think that
> >this was due to the fact that there were quite a few MDs competing. For
>
> I beg to differ here. I do think that Ravi was eclipsed by stalwarts such as
> Naushad, Roshan, SDB, CR, Madan Mohan etc. who ruled the 50s and the 60s.
>
The movies/songs that I listed in my previous followup were, to my
knowledge, all from after the mid 60s. If that is true, than the fact
that Roshan/SDB etc. ruled the 50s and 60s has no bearing on the the lack
of widespread popularity of Ravi. Also, the point that I was trying to
make by saying ".. do not think that this was due to the fact that there
were quite a few MDs competing" was that if there are x number of successful
music directors competing, where x > 5, then it does not preclude the x +
1 director to compete for success/popularity if his/her songs are in great
demand (as has been proved using the Vividh Bharati criterion).
So I do not attribute their lack of success to the fact that there were
others around, which too is yet to be established if someone can identify
the years these popular songs were created. My theory is that Ravi failed
to stir up a controversy like refusing to have Lata sing for her (OPN),
or that he kept a low-key profile. :-)
> >some unknown reason, Ravi was one of the less noticed/acknowledged MDs.
> >People generally quote the standard MDs' names when comparing music and
> >Ravi is forgotten.
>
> I do agree that Ravi didn't receive his due recognition.
>
>
>
> Sami Mohammed (A Naushad fan)
>
- Sanjay
Sanjay
MOHAMMED) wrote:
I guess we have a difference of opinion here. Firstly, I do not agree that
fame and recognition depends more on quality. It does depend on consistency,
which can be consistently delivering good music (as seen in the pre 80s era)
or consistently delivering trash (as seen beyond the 80s). The bottomline
is "What is public demand ?". Bappi Lahiri had many many more movies
in the 80s than RDB. BL and LP were the leaders of generating trash in the
80s (all IMHO) (Rambha ho ho ho ... , Aa meri jaise hasina etc. (BL), Chal
chameli baag mein (LP), + the numerous Mohd. Aziz songs that LP churned
during that time. These songs are so pathetic that I do not even know
their titles. :-( )
That makes BL and LP more popular than RDB commercially. But even a comparison
of BL with RDB would be ludicrous. Were KA very popular in the 80s ? No.
Yet they were CONSISTENTLY giving music in the 80s, and had even some
musical megahits - Laawaris, Jaanbaaz, Qurbani etc. Bappi Lahiri had more
movies than KA for EACH and EVERY year in the 80s, and his music was
always in greater demand in the 80s than KA, RDB or anyone else for that
matter.
Excuse my picking on these words "CONSISTENCY", "POPULARITY", & "QUALITY"
but their relationship is not that simplistic. One can unambigously talk
about
commercial success because that is reflected in numbers (Rs. earned, # of
movies, # of albums sold etc.). Beyond that no reasoning holds true. I
suppose the rest is subjective. The public may not accept a song that you
and I think was excellent. Or, you and I may wonder how and why this song
is so popular even
though we think it is trash.
The second point where I differ is about Ravi being mediocre. Less known, yes.
My criterion of judging MDs is their ability to adapt to the changing times
and demands of people WITHOUT compromising quality, and the history/stability
of the MD. If Ravi has succeeded in giving good music from the 60s till
the late 80s (I wonder when Nikaah/Tawaif were released), in my opinion I can
only call him very versatile and adaptive. Certainly not mediocre.
The idea here is not to open a discussion on trying to prove the capabilities
of MDs becuse the matter is very subjective, and secondly, I shy away
from being in the hotspot of a controversy :-) But I am in the search
of an answer as to the phenomenon behind the success (or lack thereof) of
music, and this is something I have failed to fathom all along.
I am happy that this topic has generated some input because it will give me
an opportunity to get different viewpoints.
Thanks Sami.
SAMIUDDIN MOHAMMED
>In article <3cndjv$1i...@fidoii.cc.lehigh.edu>, sm...@Lehigh.EDU (SAMIUDDIN
>MOHAMMED) wrote:
>> But, if we are talking about fame and recognition which depends more on
>> quality and consistency, then yes, the competition at that time did affect
>> Ravi. He was good, no doubt about it. But compared to stalwarts such as
>> Naushad and Roshan, he was mediocre, although he did exhibit flashes of
>> brilliance. But I still maintain that Ravi received less recognition than he
>> deserved.
>
>I guess we have a difference of opinion here. Firstly, I do not agree that
>fame and recognition depends more on quality. It does depend on consistency,
>which can be consistently delivering good music (as seen in the pre 80s era)
>or consistently delivering trash (as seen beyond the 80s). The bottomline
>is "What is public demand ?". Bappi Lahiri had many many more movies
>in the 80s than RDB. BL and LP were the leaders of generating trash in the
Ok, I admit that fame might not depend on quality. But I wasn't speaking of
fame over a short period of time, say 5 yrs or so. Of course Bappi ruled the
singdom for a short period of time, but where is he now ? But, there is no
doubt that he did become famous. However, while the MD's of the 50s and
60s are still remembered for their melodious music, I really doubt if
Bappi's music will survive for another 10 yrs.
Now coming down to recognition, I didn't mean recognition as in a person being
able to know who a MD is from his name. Of course everyone now knows who Bappi
is. But when people talk about the great MDs to have graced Bollywood, I really
doubt that Mr. Laheri's name wud crop up.
>Excuse my picking on these words "CONSISTENCY", "POPULARITY", & "QUALITY"
>but their relationship is not that simplistic. One can unambigously talk
I agree that the relationship is not simplistic. But as far as quality is
concerned, I'm sure it can be judged. I'm not knowledgeable enough to speak
about it in technical terms. Perhaps someone with a strong base in classical
music can comment on it. I'm not implying that it is absolutely necessary
for a film song to be based on a raga etc. to be good. I think a person with
some training in classical music can judge how a MD can mix those sur and taal
or whatever that technical stuff is.
>and I think was excellent. Or, you and I may wonder how and why this song
>is so popular even
>though we think it is trash.
Yeah, I agree that it's a subjective matter. But some songs may be immensely
popular at a partical time (for eg. those Bappi tunes), but may not survive
the test of time. IMHO, a good song will always survive the test of time.
So maybe, there IS a criterion for judgement afterall.
>The second point where I differ is about Ravi being mediocre. Less known, yes.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Perhaps u missed the point in my stmnt. I didn't say Ravi was mediocre. I said
"compared to stalwarts such as Naushad and Roshan, he was mediocre". Yes, I do
feel that he wasn't so good as those maestros. Yes, I ought to have thrown in
an IMHO before that stmnt.
>My criterion of judging MDs is their ability to adapt to the changing times
>and demands of people WITHOUT compromising quality, and the history/stability
>of the MD. If Ravi has succeeded in giving good music from the 60s till
>the late 80s (I wonder when Nikaah/Tawaif were released), in my opinion I can
>only call him very versatile and adaptive. Certainly not mediocre.
Nikaah was released around early '83 and had an excellent score. I'm not too
enthusiastic about Tawaif and Dehleez, although they did have a good song or
two. Ok, Ravi did deliver the goods right from the 60's to the 80's. But, at
no point in his career did he consistently churn out films of extraordinary
quality such as (to pick an example) Chitralekha in which each song was
exceptional. For me, songs such as those in Chitralekha define quality.
I feel that such songs, to use the cliche, separate men from the boys.
>The idea here is not to open a discussion on trying to prove the capabilities
>of MDs becuse the matter is very subjective, and secondly, I shy away
>from being in the hotspot of a controversy :-) But I am in the search
There's no question of controversy at all. We have a difference of opionion, and
that's fine. Otherwise, how wud we have a good discussion ?? :-) Moreover,
RMIM's been virtually flame-free and therefore the ideal place for a
discussion. Of course it's had it's share of "wars" but that's another
story :-)
>I am happy that this topic has generated some input because it will give me
>an opportunity to get different viewpoints.
Yeah, I do hope others join in too...
Sanjay
THIS HAS TURNED OUT TO BE AN UNUSUALLY LONG FOLLOWUP ON
MY PART (Too much free time I suppose,:-)) Those who
dread long followups, please skip.
In article <3cplkl$1d...@fidoii.cc.lehigh.edu>, sm...@Lehigh.EDU (SAMIUDDIN
MOHAMMED) wrote:
> In article <sdhanda-1412...@sdhanda-mac.qualcomm.com>,
sdh...@qualcomm.com (Sanjay) writes:
> >In article <3cndjv$1i...@fidoii.cc.lehigh.edu>, sm...@Lehigh.EDU (SAMIUDDIN
> >MOHAMMED) wrote:
>
> Ok, I admit that fame might not depend on quality. But I wasn't speaking of
> fame over a short period of time, say 5 yrs or so. Of course Bappi ruled the
> singdom for a short period of time, but where is he now ? But, there is no
> doubt that he did become famous. However, while the MD's of the 50s and
> 60s are still remembered for their melodious music, I really doubt if
> Bappi's music will survive for another 10 yrs.
I would agree with you here but rephrase it in this way. After say 20 years
if there would be an analysis of Bollywood's music, people MAY say something
like this:
"..... then came the 80s and a new DISCO wave gripped the music industry.
The KING of DISCO, Bappi Lahiri, led Bollywood into the era of lifted
tunes. Most of his music was composed using 'cut-and-paste' technique. He
dominated the commercial scene right through the decade, and then faded
gradually....."
> I agree that the relationship is not simplistic. But as far as quality is
> concerned, I'm sure it can be judged. I'm not knowledgeable enough to speak
> about it in technical terms. Perhaps someone with a strong base in classical
> music can comment on it. I'm not implying that it is absolutely necessary
> for a film song to be based on a raga etc. to be good. I think a person with
> some training in classical music can judge how a MD can mix those sur and taal
> or whatever that technical stuff is.
In the above you are *perhaps* relating quality of the MD's music with the
MD's knowledge of classical music, or, with the classical background of
the listener to appreciate that quality, while maintaining that it is not
imperative for good music to be classically-based. If my supposition about
the first part of the
above sentence is incorrect then I was unable to get your idea. But if it was
correct, and that you were implying by saying that your lack of enough
classical knowledge prevented you from judging the *technical* quality of music
then
IMHO,
{
I would say that *FILM* music, and its success has many facets.
Film music is not merely composing beautiful tunes with beautiful lyrics. They
are a VERY IMPORTANT part certainly. But there are other things that come
into picture too.
1. How well does the song match the situation of the movie ?
2. How well does the singer's voice match the actor's/actress's ?
(IMHO, this does not adversely affect the song's success *too* much
*too* often)
3. How does the music sound (irrespective of its melody) in terms of the
historical timing of the movie?
A song with drums and synthesiser would look inappropriate in 1950
movie.
Would the audience care to listen a 10 minute hardcore raga-based gem
of a song (by itself) sung by an actor/actress who is wearing
bell-bottoms ? Specifically, would such a song succeed if it was sung
by Johny Walker/Shammi Kapoor/Amitabh etc. ?
I think film music is applied music. It can't be objectively compared in a
rigid format, whether the yardstick is classical, light, or non-classical
stuff. Successful directors have given music accepting the challenges that
come in a movie when the situation changes from "VERY HAPPY" to "A DEATH
SCENE" to a "MARRIAGE" to "A PRAYER". They have given so varied music in
the same movie. I think it is this calibre that separates a top level MD
from an ordinary one. But I wouldn't say this is the end. Time is dynamic.
The tastes of people change, and sometimes come back after making a full
circle. MDs have to keep that in mind, and adapt. Here another phenomenon
occurs. Good MDs adapt without compromising their calibre, unless they
choose otherwise. Those with limited ability fit very well to the tastes
of their
times (such as BL), but after sometime they are unable to cope up with the
changes. To me this explains why BL faded after 10 years, while RDB lasted
for over 30, and would still have lasted had he not died.
Personally, I respect classical music knowledge. But I do not agree that
to judge *FILM* music I need to have classical knowledge. If I have it, I
would enjoy film music that is classically based more than someone who
doesn't. Yes. But that is only limited to classical-based music. For the
rest of the non-classical, or light-classical based music which is the
bulk of film music for the past 35 years, what would matter is
tunes/lyrics + others factors such as listed above. If I am appreciating a
hardcore classical song,
I wouldn't care whether or not the hero/heroine is standing in the same room
at the same position for the duration of the song. However, for a very
happy non-classical song I would expect the characters to indulge in an
activity that reflects those feelings, and in addition, would expect the
yrics/tune/
interludes to support that setting. Would such a song come under the category
of a good quality song or an average quality song ? The answer is subjective,
of course, but to me a song that supports the setting in a movie is a
GREAT song. I will also test that song in its history. If that song is
liked by
people even after, say, 30 years I would further consolidate my opinion.
> Yeah, I agree that it's a subjective matter. But some songs may be immensely
> popular at a partical time (for eg. those Bappi tunes), but may not survive
> the test of time. IMHO, a good song will always survive the test of time.
We both agree here completely.
>>The second point where I differ is about Ravi being mediocre. Less known, yes.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Perhaps u missed the point in my stmnt. I didn't say Ravi was mediocre. I said
> "compared to stalwarts such as Naushad and Roshan, he was mediocre". Yes, I do
> feel that he wasn't so good as those maestros. Yes, I ought to have thrown in
> an IMHO before that stmnt.
I wouldn't question your personal liking. That is the beauty of appreciation.
Ramesh Hariharan
>Another titles tidbit. I was surprised to find that the background music of
>Kala Pathhar (MD: Rajesh Roshan) was credited to Salil Chaudary! I wonder
>why he took up the job of composing only the background score ??
Can't help you with your qn....
Background music can sometimes really help in humming your way through
some 'dramatic' :-) parts of movies. One example is 1942-ALS ... the
background music is great .. full marks to the great RDB for this .. I
was especially impressed by this sad raga played when they show the two
statues embracing one another very early in the movie. Anyone remember
this very pretty tune ?
>Sami Mohammed (A Naushad fan)
--
Ramesh Hariharan, Princeton U.
Nadiya chale chale re dhara Chanda chale chale re tara
Tujhko chalna hoga Tujhko chalna hoga Tujhko chalna hoga
Ramesh Hariharan
>Why did a capable MD such SDB chose Rafi for a song like
>"sar jo tera chakaraaye", instead of Kishore-Da? I assume even
>Rafi-fans would agree that Kishore would have done wonders with
>such a song (right Sami ?).
Rafi has done a GREAT job with this song ... and NO RUFFIAN would agree
that KK would sound better ! Hmmm.... I thought the war was supposed to
start early next yr :-)