R.Sudarshanam or Chitragupta?? (Was Re: Tamil versions of Hindi songs in 50s and 60)
vandana
kar...@india.ti.com (Karthikeyan Madathil) writes:
=> I remember hearing a Tamil song with the same tune as 'Neele Neele
=>Ambar Par' on a bus ride from Pazhani to Coimbatore ages ago. Try
=>as I may, I can't remember the lyrics. Also, I believe
=>there's a tamil version of "O raat ke musaafir, chanda zaraa bataa
=>de", picturized on Gemini Ganesh. Anyone know the lyrics?
These two originated in the South and traveled North, hence do not
belong to this thread/list. In any case, the Tamil version of "O raat
ke musaafir, chanda zara bata de" is "Vaaraayo Vennilaave, keLaayo
engaL kadhaiye" and is NOT EXACTLY the same tune. Hemant Kumar, who
was the Music Director of the Hindi version "Miss Mary" (Gemini, Meena
Kumari) adapted the tune slightly. BUT, one other song in the same
movie "Brindaban ka krishan kanhaiya sabki aankhon ka taara" is a
direct lift from the Tamil "Brindavanamum nandakumaranum yaavarukkum
podhu selvam andro".
The other one you referred to "Neele neele ambar pe chaand jab aaye"
is an Ilayaraja original "Ilaya nila pozhigiradhey" which was lifted
by Kalyanji-Anandji for the movie "Kalaakaar".
I recently heard the Tamil version of the song "Tadpaaoge tadpaalo,
hum tadap tadapkar bhi tumhaare geet gaayenge" (BARKHA, Chitragupta).
It is the song "Ivar ka na, avar ka na, ivangellam periya ka na,
meidhaana illai poidhaana" (As to what that means, I haven't the
foggiest!) from the movie "DEIVA PIRAVI" with music by R.SUDARSHANAM.
The year of release of the movie is 1960 and stars Shivaji Ganeshan
and Padmini. Has another lovely song "Anbaale thediya en arivu
chelvam thangam" by C.S.Jayaraman with S.Janaki (!!) joining in for
some humming. And a naughty one by K.Jamuna Rani "KaaLai vayasu,
kattaana size-u, kaLangam illa manasu".
Can someone tell me if this particular song ("Tadpaaoge Tadpaalo"
/"Ivar ka na") originated in the South or North? I do not have the
year of release of "Barkha", that could make things a little clear.
R.Sudarshanam has been mentioned earlier in RMIM by Vish Krishnan with
reference to lifting Feroze Nizami's "Saanwariya tohe koi pukaare" in
"Dupatta" for "Poomaalai" in "Paraashakti".
But Chitragupta is not clean either. There exists a Hindi version of
the song "KaNNa karumai niRa kaNNa unnai kaaNaadha kaNN illaiye" from
"Naanum Oru PeNN", starring Vijaya Kumari and the majestic S.V.Ranga
Rao which goes
"Krishna O kale krishna, tu ne yeh kya kiya,
kaisa badla liya, rang deke mujhe apna"
in "Main bhi laDki hoon" starring Meena Kumari, with music credited to
Chitragupta. I do not know who the Music Director for the Tamil
version is, but whoever it is, Chitragupta has definitely lifted this
tune.
So which is the original?
Vandana Venkatesan.
Kishore Krshna
music (then & now) forms an important part of a movie's success
composers were compelled to reuse the original tunes.
CR composed for Anarkali Salim Akbar starring NTR (as Akbar,
tee hee hee:-) in the 70s. In fact, this was his last film,
for he died shortly thereafter. He recycled his hindi tunes
for this film. What is curious is that in the tamil version
of Anarkali (released in the 50s with TR Rajakumari in the
title role), they didn't lift Yeh Zindagi Usiki Hai. The
reason was that someone else had already done so for the Sivaji
starrer Cauvery (en sindhai noyum theerumaa - Jikki). Not
to be outdone, they lifted Naushad's Mohabbat ki Jhooti
Kahani pe Roye... (kanakkaanum kaathal kathai kanneeraachhe
- Jikki/ P Leela). However, the movie did have a couple of
great originals - raajasekhara en mel modi seyyal aagumaa,
raajathanthri neeyadaa.... (Ghantasala, Jikki). I think this
was a tamil/telugu bilingual. I forget the other one.
Oddly enough, LV Prasad is the one person who doesn't appear
to have insisted on this. Vijaya's Miss Mary has Hemant Kumar
copying S Rajeswara Rao's Brindavanamum Nandakumaranum...
As for AVM, the list is too numerous to count - apparently
AVM Chettiar the owner, had a penchant for hindi film tunes
& made his company composer R Sudharshanam copy a lot of the
tunes for tamil remakes/ originals. Somebody mentioned
Jaishanker's films & Veda, but I'll write about that later
today in the "Tamil movie songs lifted ...." thread.
Kishore Krshna
kis...@mail.utexas.edu
On 22 Nov 1995, Kalyan Kolachala wrote:
> One more lift by Chitragupta (and alluded to earlier by UVR)
> are most of the songs of Bhabhi. UVR confirmed the telugu one
> came before. I guess many Hindi productions by the southern studios
>(LV Prasad etc) must have been remakes of south Indian hits and
> hence a likelihood that the MD's for the Hindi versions had to
> copy/adapt the southern tunes.
>
> On a related note, what about Anarkali. In the Telugu version of the film
> many tunes are same. WHich was the original and who was the MD of the
> telugu version (CR again?).
>
> Kalyan
>
>
>
Kalyan Kolachala
>of Anarkali (released in the 50s with TR Rajakumari in the
>title role), they didn't lift Yeh Zindagi Usiki Hai. The
>reason was that someone else had already done so for the Sivaji
>starrer Cauvery (en sindhai noyum theerumaa - Jikki). Not
>to be outdone, they lifted Naushad's Mohabbat ki Jhooti
How could a 50's film lift from a film released in 1960. This
suggests three possibilities.
- There is only a superficial resemblance.
- Mughal-e-azam took a lot of time in the making so music could
have been recorded and released earlier. eg. Bade Ghulam Ali
Khan who has 2 songs in the film passed away in the mid-50's (?).
Could somebody (Ashok, Vish?) confirm as to when the soundtrack
was released.
- Naushad was the plagiarist !!!!
Cheers,
Kalyan
Sreenivas Paruchuri
: CR composed for Anarkali Salim Akbar starring NTR (as Akbar,
: tee hee hee:-) in the 70s. In fact, this was his last film,
May I ask you whats so funny about NTR acting as Akabr! Before I write a long
message in defence of NTR, and his great films, esp. his own productions,
would wait for your reply.
: of Anarkali (released in the 50s with TR Rajakumari in the
: title role), they didn't lift Yeh Zindagi Usiki Hai. The
: reason was that someone else had already done so for the Sivaji
: starrer Cauvery (en sindhai noyum theerumaa - Jikki). Not
Though it was simultaneously made by aadinaaraayaNaraavu (himself?) in
Tamil, the tune of "yeh zindagi usiki hai" was not used, due to the reasons
you said above. But, as I wrote in my previous message its copied in Telugu
"jeevitamE saphalamu" (jikki).
: great originals - raajasekhara en mel modi seyyal aagumaa,
: raajathanthri neeyadaa.... (Ghantasala, Jikki). I think this
: was a tamil/telugu bilingual. I forget the other one.
In Telugu the above song goes like "raajaSEkharaa neepai mOju teera lEdaraa"
and the only other ghanTasaala, jikki duet is "kalise nelaraaju kaluva
chelini".
: As for AVM, the list is too numerous to count - apparently
: AVM Chettiar the owner, had a penchant for hindi film tunes
: & made his company composer R Sudharshanam copy a lot of the
: tunes for tamil remakes/ originals. Somebody mentioned
It may be the case that R.sudarSanam lifted Hindi tunes for some films, but
not for AVM films, to my knowledge. Could you please give some examples! I
already wrote that all the early AVM films were remade in Hindi, and partly
the same tunes were used. But, not the other way round!
Regards,
Sreenivas
P.S. Just saw your other posting, how the tune from Moghal-E-Azam could be
copied in a mid-50s film. I believe that the song track was released much
ahead. Another example here: In Vijaya's "peLLi chEsi chooDu" (Tamil: kalyanam
panni paar, 1952) you listen to the famous "jagamE maaya" (dEvadaasu, 1953, CR
subburaaman) tune in one song (a small bit though). So, did ghanTasaala, MD
for "peLLi chEsi chooDu" copy subburaaman? No!
Karthikeyan Madathil
vandana> These two originated in the South and traveled North,
vandana> hence do not belong to this thread/list. In any case,
vandana> the Tamil version of "O raat ke musaafir, chanda zara
vandana> bata de" is "Vaaraayo Vennilaave, keLaayo engaL kadhaiye"
vandana> and is NOT EXACTLY the same tune. Hemant Kumar, who was
Indeed, but the wording of the songs are quite similar. Coming to
think of it, the tunes are different enough not to be recognized
as having anything to do with each other at all.
Thanks for the info.
Karthik
--
Sreenivas Paruchuri
: Jairaj, Vinod (vja...@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu) wrote:
: : 2. Qusoor aapka from Bahar, composed by S.D.Burman. In Tamil, it goes
: : Onakkaage, ellam onakkaage
: Bahar was n't first released in Hindi, but Tamil and Telugu. The music
: director for the original Tamil/Telugu version (simultaneously made like
: most of the AVM films) was R. sudarSanam.
Here is some elaboration on the origin of "bahaar" (1951). Its a remake of
the Tamil/Telugu film "Vazhkai/jeevitam" (1950, some books quote the year of
release as 1949.). The starring in Tamil version was vaijayantimaala and
padmini (?), whereas as S.varalakshmi played padmini's role in Telugu.
Unfortunately I can't recall any songs from Tamil version (but I have an old
song book of the film in Tamil, back home). My father used to often hum two
popular (catchy) melodies from it, which go like (in Telugu):
priyamaina raaNi mOhinii ... Da Da Daa Da Da Daa (a duet)
and
Tikku Takku TakkulaaDi tattittaalu aaDagaa .. (a solo). There are altogether
14-16 songs in the film. My favourite is maadhavapeddi satyam's emotion
filled "idEnaa maa dESam? idaa bharata dESam! ...".
I don't think R. sudarSanam had any flops under AVM banner. His earliest
film, that I can recall is "bhookailaas" (1940, an interesting film! More on
that later ..). It was produced under Saraswati Cine Tone banner, which again
belonged to AVM Chettiar. AVM also owned the Saraswati recording stores in
Madras, representing Odeon, and Columbia records. "sangham" - Telugu - 1954,
starring: vaijayantimaala, anjali, NTR ("Penn" in Tamil, "Ladki" in Hindi),
"vadina" - Telugu (Is it made in Tamil at all? If not it would be unique!),
*ing: saavitri, ANR, and bhookailaas ('58, *ing NTR, ANR, jamuna,
SV rangaaraavu) are a few more AVM releases under his MD with superb music.
kaaLahasteeSwara mahaatmyam ('54, a Telugu-kannaDa joint venture!) with Raj
Kumar is my personal favourite. Esp. listen to those ghanTasaala songs!
Kalyan Kolachala <48ua7s$8...@minerva.worldbank.org> wrote:
: One more lift by Chitragupta (and alluded to earlier by UVR)
: are most of the songs of Bhabhi. I knew that the songs in
: Bhabhi as well as the Telugu version were quite similar but
: wasn't sure which was original. UVR confirmed the telugu one
: came before.
Did I miss the above thread? Our news reader is very erratic these days.
Could someone please forward that thread!
: On a related note, what about Anarkali. In the Telugu version of the film
: many tunes are same. WHich was the original and who was the MD of the
: telugu version (CR again?).
The MD for the Telugu version is aadinaaraayaNaraavu. The film was his own
production (anjali pictures, starring anjali (aadinaaraayaNaraavu's better
half), akkinEni, SV rangaaraavu, kannaamba), released in 1955. But, a couple
of tunes are copied from CR, like "jeevitamE saphalamu .." (yeh jindagi usi
ki hai ..). Recently some one wrote (was it Ashok in his latest Quiz-28?)
that he was credited for bringing CR's style in to Telugu films. I don't know
where it was said. But, I personally can't agree with it completely. Rather I
would say that he had a lot of Marathi influence (esp. from the stage), which
he acknowledged many times. In his young days he was influenced by Master
Krishna Rao, N.Rao.Vyas, Bal Gandharva. If you count all the films under his
Music directions, they are less than 25, in a career spanning over 3 decades.
He made his debut with "palleToori pilla" (1950, famous through a bull fight
scene, where NTR acted without a dupe, NTR and ANR acted together for the 1st
time). Out of these 20+ films more than 50% are his own productions (he had
two banners: anjali pictures, and chinni productions). Here is a complete (?)
list:
paradESi, anArkali, suvarNasundari, RNAnubandham,
swarNa manjari, bhakta tukArAm, kshEtrayya
satI sakkubAyi, satI sumati, kumkumabhariNe, ammakOsam
The first four did well at box-office, followed by tukaaraam. kshEtrayya was
IMO an excellant film, but did n't do well. For "sakkubaayi" he could n't get
the rights for the old lyrics from the lyricist (It needs an explanation
here: The play "sakkubaayi" introduced initially by the marathi touring
troupes in early 20s became so popular that it was thrice filmed. In 30s two
well known stage personolities tungala chalapatiraavu, daasari kOTiratnam
along with the composer/lyricist daitaa gOpaalam performed all over the state
and became legendary. In the first film version made in 30s the afore
mentioned artists played the main roles. For the 2nd version ('54), also
with a big starring, the producer could get the rights from gOpaalam. Where
as aadi naaraayaNaraavu could n't.) and had to get them written as closely as
possible to the old, popular songs. Inspite of that, it was n't a success. In
early 80s he announced "sant j~naanESwar" (another saint personality from
Maharshtra as his next project, but it was never realised.)
Regards,
Sreenivas
Ajay P Nerurkar
: eg. Bade Ghulam Ali
: Khan who has 2 songs in the film passed away in the mid-50's (?).
Infact, Bade Ghulam Ali left us in (April) 1968.
Ajay
m...@wvnvms.wvnet.edu
I think AdinarayanaRao was the music director for Anarkali and Telugu
version was the original, because Anjali Devi was there in Hindi version too. I
Srinivas Madabhushi
In article <48ue4p$9...@ns.taligent.com>, Kalyan Kolachala <kalyan> writes:
> One more lift by Chitragupta (and alluded to earlier by UVR)
> are most of the songs of Bhabhi. I knew that the songs in
> Bhabhi as well as the Telugu version were quite similar but
> wasn't sure which was original. UVR confirmed the telugu one
> came before.
>
> I guess many Hindi productions by the southern studios (LV Prasad etc)
> must have been remakes of south Indian hits and hence a likelihood
> that the MD's for the Hindi versions had to copy/adapt the southern
> tunes.
>
> On a related note, what about Anarkali. In the Telugu version of the film
> many tunes are same. WHich was the original and who was the MD of the
> telugu version (CR again?).
>
> Kalyan
>