Uncommon taals in film songs

Shakes

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Mar 7, 2011, 6:04:08 PM3/7/11

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Hi,

I was going through this pretty good site -
http://chandrakantha.com/tala_taal/bollywood_songs.html - where film
songs based on various taals were listed.

It's probable that this is not a comprehensive list and could be just
a summary of the more popular taals.

However, I searched for songs on chautaal (12 beats) and came up with
only one song - "Sapt Suran Teen Gram" by K.L.Saigal in
"Tansen" (1942).

Are there any more songs in this taal ?

Another relatively rare taal seems to be Ek Taal (12 beats -
2+2+2+2+2+2). From the popular songs, "Man Mohana" from "Seema" is the
only one listed. Are there any more popular songs in this taal ?

Also, both these taals have a cycle of 12 beats. How is it they sound
quite different ? Am I right in guessing that the division of the
beats is different ?

What is it that makes some taals more common than others ? Is it that
some are easier to memorize ? Or are some taals closer to the
"biological rhythm" than others ?

Thanks,
Shekar.

naniwadekar

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Mar 7, 2011, 7:27:29 PM3/7/11

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On Mar 7, 3:04 pm, Shakes wrote:
>
> However, I searched for songs on chautaal (12 beats) and came up with
> only one song - "Sapt Suran Teen Gram" by K.L.Saigal in
> "Tansen" (1942).
>

Chautaal and Tevra are exclusive to Dhrupad (not by any 'rule' but by
association and ease/difficulty of adapting a taal to a genre), and
film songs in dhrupad are exceedingly rare. Dhrupad has been used in
films Shankar Parvati (jaya jaya shankar), Bhartruhari (ghuunghat pat,
in chautaal), Bharat Milaap (shriiraamachandra krupaalu bhaja mana,
tevra), Sangeet Samrat Tansen (Manna Dey). Most of these songs are
listed in giitaayan archives. In 1942-1945 span, Dhrupad made its
presence felt in Hindi films. Unfortunately the tradition wasn't kept
going by the later MDs.

Preeti Ranjan Panda had conducted an RJGK on songs in Jhaptaal and
Roopak/Deepchandi around Feb 2001, almost exactly 10 years ago.

- dn

Chetan Vinchhi

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Mar 8, 2011, 12:01:15 AM3/8/11

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On Mar 8, 4:04 am, Shakes <kvcsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Another relatively rare taal seems to be Ek Taal (12 beats -
> 2+2+2+2+2+2). From the popular songs, "Man Mohana" from "Seema" is the
> only one listed. Are there any more popular songs in this taal ?

- ruuTh ke tum to chal diye (ektaal at a lovely, languorous pace!)
- pavan diivaanii
- tumare gun gaaoo.n (the slow portion of aaj gaavat man mero jhuum ke
- only in the film though)

C

Shakes

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Mar 8, 2011, 1:32:50 AM3/8/11

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Thanks, Nani. I was looking for "Mora Dheere Se Ghunghat" from
"Bhartruhari" and also found "Chanda Des Piya Ke Jaa" by Amirbai
Karnataki. I loved the song. I recognize it as some sort of thumri. Is
that correct ?

Sanjeev Ramabhadran

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Mar 8, 2011, 2:13:03 PM3/8/11

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Actually, this is in Vilambit Teentaal - on another note, are there
other examples besides this and Man Tarpat of filmi Teentaal-s in the
vilambit/madhya-vilambit laya?

Some other Ektaal-s that come to mind (not all necessarily popular,
sorry for any ITRANS mistakes):

- kaahe chhe.D-chhe.D mohe (Kavita K./Birju Maharaj/Chorus in
"Devdas")
- ketakii gulaab juuhi (Manna Dey/Bhimsen Joshi in "Basant Bahaar")
- jaa mai.N tose naahi boluu.N (Lata for Anil Biswas in "Sautela
Bhai")
- ruum-jhuum ke bajaao (Rafi/Krishnarao Chonkar for Shankar-Jaikishan
in "Pooja")
- chorii-chorii aiyo raadhe jamunaa kinaare (Asha for Shyamal Mitra in
"Safed Jhooth")
- mohmadashah ra.Ngiile (Manna Dey in "Jabse Tumhen Dekha Hai",
adaptation of the Miyan Malhar bandish)

Sanjeev

naniwadekar

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Mar 8, 2011, 2:20:02 PM3/8/11

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Is 'saajan bin neend na aaye' in Dadra or Ektaal? IIRC it is set to
ektaal; it can be heard off Rajan's article on Kedar. Ektaal is rarer
in film songs than one would have expected it to be.

And, speaking of S D Burman, 'ghaayal hiraniyaa' is in Jhaptaal.
Preeti Ranjan's quiz had covered several songs set to Jhaptaal.

- dn

Sanjeev Ramabhadran

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Mar 8, 2011, 2:31:30 PM3/8/11

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On Mar 8, 2:20 pm, naniwadekar <nani3ski...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Is 'saajan bin neend na aaye' in Dadra or Ektaal? IIRC it is set to
> ektaal; it can be heard off Rajan's article on Kedar. Ektaal is rarer
> in film songs than one would have expected it to be.

The original bandish is in Ektaal, but the film song is in Dadra.

Sanjeev

Shekhar

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Mar 8, 2011, 2:53:09 PM3/8/11

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On Mar 8, 11:31 pm, Sanjeev Ramabhadran

Any idea about the taal when Lata goes into shuddh sarang at 1.57
here? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EStWRgjyr_I

Thanks

Shekhar

Shakes

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Mar 8, 2011, 4:56:51 PM3/8/11

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On Mar 7, 4:27 pm, naniwadekar <nani3ski...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Thanks for the pointer to that older thread. I really liked the
introduction and the compilation.

That thread (and it's accompanying clues, answers):
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.music.indian.misc/browse_frm/thread/efdd0b4e650f885/36851d4fed071869?lnk=gst&q=#36851d4fed071869

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.music.indian.misc/browse_frm/thread/6f77fdc8bd7d919d/55818773ea25120c?lnk=gst&q=#55818773ea25120c

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.music.indian.misc/browse_frm/thread/1b946b4a1d1f9dbb/9754610fd225b7b9?lnk=gst&q=#9754610fd225b7b9

Shakes

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Mar 8, 2011, 4:58:38 PM3/8/11

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On Mar 8, 11:13 am, Sanjeev Ramabhadran

What taal is this song set to ? It took some time for me to nail it
down on the keyboard.

"Aankhon mein kya, is dil se poocho zara" from "Khamoshi" (1996).

Sanjeev Ramabhadran

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Mar 8, 2011, 7:13:33 PM3/8/11

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> "Aankhon mein kya, is dil se poocho zara" from "Khamoshi" (1996).- Hide quoted text -
>

It's a 10-beat cycle as well, close enough in parts to Jhaptaal though
overall probably doesn't merit a "formal" Jhaptaal title. Interesting
you mention it - check out http://www.sureelesapne.com/swaraanjali.html
(search on Jhaptaal).

Sanjeev

Sanjeev Ramabhadran

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Mar 8, 2011, 7:13:52 PM3/8/11

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Roopak.

Sanjeev

Shakes

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Mar 9, 2011, 12:54:56 AM3/9/11

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On Mar 8, 4:13 pm, Sanjeev Ramabhadran <sanjeev.ramabhad...@gmail.com>

> you mention it - check outhttp://www.sureelesapne.com/swaraanjali.html
> (search on Jhaptaal).
>
> Sanjeev

Thanks. Interesting, you picked this song. :-)

BTW, did you stop the program because you are temporarily out of
material (like no more ragas to cover) ? Me and my wife really enjoy
the program, though we listen to it on the net whenever we get a
chance.

Shekar.

Sanjeev Ramabhadran

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Mar 9, 2011, 4:44:26 PM3/9/11

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> Shekar.- Hide quoted text -

Thanks - not at all. Plenty more to cover, just can't do it on Dhoom
FM anymore.

Sanjeev

Sanjeev Ramabhadran

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Mar 9, 2011, 4:48:03 PM3/9/11

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On Mar 8, 2:13 pm, Sanjeev Ramabhadran <sanjeev.ramabhad...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Also:
- "jaago re prabhaat aayaa" (Manna Dey in "Sant Gyaneshwar").
- "torii jay jay karataar" (Ud. Amir Khan in "Baiju Bawra")

Sanjeev

Shakes

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Mar 9, 2011, 6:05:11 PM3/9/11

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Thanks, Chetan.

Also, how about these songs ?

" oh re taal mile nadi ke jal mein" ("Anokhi Raat")
"haan deewana hoon main" ("Saranga")
"Jaa re jaa re ud ja re panchchi" ("Maya")

Chetan Vinchhi

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Mar 10, 2011, 12:18:28 AM3/10/11

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On Mar 9, 12:13 am, Sanjeev Ramabhadran

<sanjeev.ramabhad...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Actually, this is in Vilambit Teentaal

So it is! Thanks for pointing this out.

> - on another note, are there
> other examples besides this and Man Tarpat of filmi Teentaal-s in the
> vilambit/madhya-vilambit laya?

There is a song in Tarang which goes "barase ghan saarii raat" that is
in almost-vilambit ektaal. "ruuTh ke tum to chal diye" is fairly
dheema as well.

C