Naushad on Baiju Bawra
Rajiv Shridhar
I recently happened to watch a rebroadcast of the "Sangeet Sitare" program
originally aired the week after director Vijay Bhatt passed away last year,
in which a brief segment focussed on random thoughts from Bhatt and MD
Naushad on the music of their film, Baiju Bawra. A couple of comments that
Naushad struck me as very interesting, so I decided to share these with you,
in case you haven't seen the program.
(Naushad spoke, as usual, in chaste Urdu, and the English here is the result
of my own pathetic attempt at keeping up with him.)
Much has been said, and written, about Naushad's memories of sleeping on the
pavement, and he repeats these here as well. "The film, Baiju Bawra,
celebrated its Golden Jubilee in Broadway theatre at Dadar, 16 years after I
first came to Bombay. The theatre is no longer there, but the building in
front of which I used to sleep on the footpath at night still stands. I
cannot think of it without becoming emotional."
"When the movie was released, Filmfare magazine published a review which said
that the songs of the movie, based on classical music, were absolutely not
upto standard; all the songs, that is, except for the one based on Raag
Hindol." A gentle smile plays across his face. "I wrote a letter to the then
publisher of Filmfare, Cecil Mendoza, and asked him to publish it in his
magazine so that his readers would know my views. In the letter, I told him
that the Raag Hindol song that you say is the only good one in the movie....
that Raag is not even used in the movie for any song!" He sits back
with a widening smile.
Then, leaning forward again, "Ironically, the first Filmfare award for Best
Music Direction was bestowed on this undeserving composer.", he laughs. (is
naacheez pe navaazaa gayaa...)
RMIMers will remember, of course, that this first Filmfare award given to
Naushad for Baiju Bawra has also been his ONLY one so far. Incredible, when
we consider the kind of music he has composed, and the number of hit songs
he has been responsible for.
Rajiv
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Rajiv Shridhar // CSE-NEU // ra...@hendrix.coe.neu.edu
Aur bhi GHam haiN zamaane meiN mohabbat ke sivaa
RaahateN aur bhi haiN vasl ki raahat ke sivaa
-Faiz
Kishore Krshna
Naushad's music in 1952. At that time, Naushad was just finishing
up work on Aan for which he had to go to London (Aan was in Eastman
Color and was being processed in England). He came back sick and
worked on Baiju Bawra through his sickness - with the result that
he was totally dissatisfied with every song in the movie save man
tarpat hari darshan which he felt was passable!
--
Kishore Krshna
616 West 51 St, #104,
Austin, Tx 78751
krs...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
Ashok
>
> Fellow RMIMers,
>
>
> RMIMers will remember, of course, that this first Filmfare award given to
> Naushad for Baiju Bawra has also been his ONLY one so far. Incredible, when
> we consider the kind of music he has composed, and the number of hit songs
> he has been responsible for.
>
> Rajiv
>
:))
Why incredible? It is just the 'inverse law' at work. :)) Among the great
MDs, the number of filmfare awards they have won is inversely proportional
to their greatness. RMIMers will remember the zero's, I hope: Anil Biswas,
CR, Madan Mohan, Vasant Desai, and Jaidev.
:))
Ashok
Kalyan Kolachala
>ra...@chopin.coe.neu.edu (Rajiv Shridhar) wrote:
>>
>> Fellow RMIMers,
>>
>>
>> RMIMers will remember, of course, that this first Filmfare award given to
>> Naushad for Baiju Bawra has also been his ONLY one so far. Incredible, when
>> we consider the kind of music he has composed, and the number of hit songs
>> he has been responsible for.
>>
>> Rajiv
>>
It's not so incredible if one notices that Naushad was at his peak in
"Baiju Bawra" and after that it was a steady decline. Of the films
after BB I guess Naushad could have got it for "Mughal-e-Azam" but even
work on "Mughal-e-Azam" started in the early fifties (around the same time as
Anarkali) and I am not sure when exactly the songs were composed.
One reason why many of the great composers didn't get Filmfare awards was
because by the time the awards were instituted most of them were past their
prime (IMHO, Naushad included).
Rajiv Shridhar
: >> RMIMers will remember, of course, that this first Filmfare award given to
: >> Naushad for Baiju Bawra has also been his ONLY one so far. Incredible, when
: >> we consider the kind of music he has composed, and the number of hit songs
: >> he has been responsible for.
: It's not so incredible if one notices that Naushad was at his peak in
: "Baiju Bawra" and after that it was a steady decline. Of the films
: after BB I guess Naushad could have got it for "Mughal-e-Azam" but even
: work on "Mughal-e-Azam" started in the early fifties (around the same time as
: Anarkali) and I am not sure when exactly the songs were composed.
: One reason why many of the great composers didn't get Filmfare awards was
: because by the time the awards were instituted most of them were past their
: prime (IMHO, Naushad included).
Well, I don't think he slipped from his prime so fast that he couldn't make
even one more movie worth a Filmfare award. :-) Neither do I think it true
that audience tastes would have switched from the kind of music that Naushad
was famed for; after all, many of his later movies _did_ become huge hits.
Movies like Mughal-E-Azam, Mother India, Mere Mehboob, Aadmi, Leader, had
music of pretty high calibre, which should have provided serious contention
to the winners for those respective years. We may have to look at what the
competition was. I think it is incredible either way, that (1) there were
movies in these years that beat such high-quality music, or (2) that the
Filmfare Awards committee could have disregarded Naushad's movies.
I think it would be interesting to see what movies won in the period from
1952 (Baiju Bawra) to 1968 (Aadmi), a period of 16 years!! I use 1968 as the
watershed year, because even Sami-bhai (absent from this discussion so far :-),
talks of Aadmi as the last movie to have "the magical Naushad touch".
Rajiv
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Sanjay
: I thought Madan Mohan did get it for "Tujhe kya sunaoon main dilruba"
: or was this the national award? BTW this is a ripoff of Sajjad's
: Yeh hawa yeh raat yeh chaandni. As for the filmfare awards, they were
: (are?) completely worthless - imagine giving it to Shanker Jaikishen
: for Suraj in 1966 rather than to SD Burman for Guide! In fact, SJ had
: such a lock on it that they got it the most no. of times and also
: influenced the choice of best playback singers. Raju Bharatan in his
: Lata bio suggests that the reason Lata Mangeshkar stepped aside was
: that she realized Sharda would get it in 1970. Sharda at that time,
: was being promoted by SJ as a replacement for Lata.
Isnt it true that Filmfare awards (unlike national awards) are given
based on general public opinion poll. I remember seeing the forms
which used to appear in Filmfare calling the people to vote for
different categories. So its not some handful of critics who decide
the winner but the janata (public). I agree there could be some
discrepencies arising out of less number of people participating in the
poll, but that happens in any kind of poll. If you would like your
candidate to win , vote for him/her.
Can anybody confirm whether i am right about the Fimfare poll procedure.
Sanjay
Kalyan Kolachala
>Kalyan Kolachala (kalyan) wrote:
Ikram Ahmed Khan
: Isnt it true that Filmfare awards (unlike national awards) are given
: based on general public opinion poll. I remember seeing the forms
: which used to appear in Filmfare calling the people to vote for
: different categories. So its not some handful of critics who decide
: the winner but the janata (public). I agree there could be some
: discrepencies arising out of less number of people participating in the
: poll, but that happens in any kind of poll. If you would like your
: candidate to win , vote for him/her.
: Can anybody confirm whether i am right about the Fimfare poll procedure.
Ah! You sure are true Sanjay....but then the question is "Does democracy
work?"... In other words, it has not been unknown for ppl to win awards by
buying a lot of these magazines and then sending in the forms filled in
their own name... I mean, the ballot paper is freely available for a price
of a filmfare... Nowadays, I would say that the practise has become less
frequent (in fact, extinct), simply becuse journalists today are very
hard-nosed and quite a few of the yellow variety would love to write
something like that... (I wonder tho' why nobody thought of writing that for
Nadeem-Shravan's thre-peat (was it three or four? ) )...But in the early
days, ppl were more discreet...the love affairs of the stars would not
receive as much press...
I heard (this might be a trashy rumor, in fact it probably is) that Dev
bought his award for Kaala Paani....If this can happen for Best Actor, sure
it can take place for Best Music too...Not that I have joined our beloved
SAMIUDDIN MOHAMMED in denigrating poor Shanky-J.
In conclusion, that thing about the janta janardhan awarding the filmfare
might be considered with a pinch of salt as far as the old days are
concerned.
Later,
Ikram.
: Sanjay
Kalyan Kolachala
>Sanjay (sg...@ecte.uswc.uswest.com) wrote:
>
>: Isnt it true that Filmfare awards (unlike national awards) are given
>: based on general public opinion poll. I remember seeing the forms
>: which used to appear in Filmfare calling the people to vote for
>: different categories. So its not some handful of critics who decide
>: the winner but the janata (public). I agree there could be some
>: discrepencies arising out of less number of people participating in the
>: poll, but that happens in any kind of poll. If you would like your
>: candidate to win , vote for him/her.
>: Can anybody confirm whether i am right about the Fimfare poll procedure.
>
>
I don't think the awards were based on opinion polls earlier.
That started in the 80's. Once opinion polls were introduced
for the important awards there were two categories:
critic's choice and popular choice.
- Kalyan
Faez Nasrudin Kaiser
In article <44fbfi$d...@ns.taligent.com>, Kalyan Kolachala <kalyan> writes:
>Ashok <ADhar...@WorldBank.org> wrote:
>>ra...@chopin.coe.neu.edu (Rajiv Shridhar) wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> RMIMers will remember, of course, that this first Filmfare award given to
>>> Naushad for Baiju Bawra has also been his ONLY one so far. Incredible, when
>>> we consider the kind of music he has composed, and the number of hit songs
>>> he has been responsible for.
>>>
>>>
>
>It's not so incredible if one notices that Naushad was at his peak in
>"Baiju Bawra" and after that it was a steady decline. Of the films
>after BB I guess Naushad could have got it for "Mughal-e-Azam" but even
>work on "Mughal-e-Azam" started in the early fifties (around the same time as
>Anarkali) and I am not sure when exactly the songs were composed.
>
It is ridiculous to suggest that Naushad was at his peak in 1952, and declined
thereafter. Baiju Bawra was quite unique, in that for the first time, Naushad
had based each song on at least one of the principal ragas. In an interview, he
said that this was his way of introducing classical Indian music to the masses,
without overwhelming them with the pure version which can only be appreciated
by a refined ear. The following are some of his films after Baiju Bawra:
1952: Aan Filmfare Winner: Baiju Bawra
1954: Shabab Taxi Driver
1955: Amar, Udan Khatola Nagin
1957: Mother India Naya Daur
1960: Kohinoor, Mughal-e-Azam Dil Apna Aur Preet Parai
1961: Gunga Jumna Gharana
1964: Leader Dosti
It is almost impossible to pick between these exquisite creations, but IMHO
Kohinoor stands out as the brightest gem of all for "Madhuban Mein Radhika",
"Do Sitaron" and a multitude of other masterpieces.
All of these films have exceptional music, and are at least comparable to the
winners in the given years, if not better. Others have pointed out that films
such as Guide, Anarkali, Navrang, and (can you believe it ?) Pakeezah never
won an award. The Filmfare awards should not be taken as anything more than
light hearted fun. What is more important is that the music of Naushad, SDB,
C.Ramchandra et alia is appreciated even though the awards went to others,
especially S-J and LP.
For your enjoyment, the following list of Filmfare winners (upto 1973) was
posted by an RMIMer a while ago:
1953 NAUSHAD Baiju Bawra
1954 S.D. BURMAN Taxi Driver
1955 HEMANT KUMAR Nagin
1956 SHANKAR-JAIKISHAN Chori-Chori
1957 O.P. NAYYAR Naya Daur
1958 SAIL CHOUDHURY Madhumati
1959 SHANKAR-JAIKISHAN Anari
1960 SHANKAR-JAIKISHAN Dil Apna Aur Preet Parai
1961 RAVI Gharana
1962 SHANKAR-JAIKISHAN Proffessor
1963 ROSHAN Taj Mahal
1964 LAXMIKANT-PYARELAL Dosti
1965 RAVI Khandaan
1966 SHANKAR-JAIKISHAN Suraj
1967 LAXMIKANT-PYARELAL Milan
1968 SHANKAR-JAIKISHAN Brahmachari
1969 LAXMIKANT-PYARELAL Jeene Ki Raah
1970 SHANKAR-JAIKISHAN Pehchan
1971 SHANKAR-JAIKISHAN Mera Naam Joker
1972 SHANKAR-JAIKISHAN Be-Imaan
1973 S.D. BURMAN Abhimaan
Regards,
Faez
--
Faez Kaiser nasr...@glue.umd.edu
UMCP http://www.glue.umd.edu/~nasrudin
Jairaj, Vinod
Let me jump into the discussion on the film fare awards. Well, I
feel that SJ truly deserved it for their score in Suraj. Well, the song
BARAHON PHOOL BARSAAO, was the #1 song that year (Binaca Geet Mala). What
is wrong with SJ winning it a LOT of times? Well, just goes to show that
they were good. According to Manna Dey in an old interview telecast on
DD, the music they composed for 25 years (from 1949 to 1974), has not
been paralleled.
Hope to continue the discussion further,
Vinod
Siddhartha Duttagupta
I have never heard of these songs but do they really compare to Aradhana?
siddhartha.
Ashok
Hello Faez,
I agree strongly with you (with one reservation that I'll come to later).
Yes, Kalyan is factually wrong in saying that Baiju Bawra is the peak. More
basically, however, this picture of an MD's career being like an 'inverted V'
is also at fault; it doesn't describe anyone's career trajectory, least of all
Naushad's. Naushad reached a highground that can be described as 'great' in 1946
with Shah Jahan and Anmol Ghadi (if not earlier). He kept up that level of
excellence for more than 2 decades. I also agree that Filmfare Awards as an
institution is part and parcel of mainstream comercial music, the very process
that also governs cassette sales, Binaca ranking, and which MD gets how many
films to compose. The Awards has very little artistic autonomy, if any.
My reservation (a very strong one) is in your designation of Kohinoor as Naushad's
best. It doesn't even make it as *one* of the top-echelon films. As pretty
as the Kohinoor songs are, they lack one quality that Naushad's best songs have:
soulfulness. Focussing on films after 1946 (while thinking about the best of
Naushad, I find it convenient to exclude from consideration Shah Jehan and
Anmol Ghadi, to avoid the spell of those two special singers!), I would
rate Shabaab as his best. The Hemant song in the film is like adding
'kundan' to 'sona'.
I notice the absence of Son of India from your list. Perhaps the commercial
failure of the film caused the music not to receive the recognition it
deserves. It's simply one of Naushad's very best. In addition to the two
interesting songs by the new singer he introduced (Shanti(a?) Mathur), it is
chockful of gems by the customary singers. The following gems come readily to
mind (Hope nettors will point out errors of omission and commission.):
diya na bujhe ri aaj hamaaraa
chal diye deke Gam
aaj chheDo mohabbat ki shehnaiyaan
dil toDnevale tujhe dil DhooNDh raha hai *
zindagi aaj mere naam se sharamati hai **
Ashok
PS: :)) To continue the process of educating ignorant Rafi freaks: :))
* is a great Rafi duet, and
** is a very good Rafi solo.
:))
Anil Hingorani
I agree that "Baharon phool barsao" is a good song but when you consider the fact that Suraj was up against SDB's all time great "Guide" do you still think SJ deserved to win that year?????
Also, later on they won for something as inane as "Beimaan" which was up against the stunning "Pakeezah". How does one even begin to compare the music of these two movies. The reason SJ won that year was because Jaikishan had passed on earlier that year. But so had Ghulam Mohammad. Do you think that was just????
If the compositions of "Guide" and "Pakeezah" were not extremely popular, I would have probably agreed with you on all counts, since Filmfare awards are given away based on popularity and not just quality. The songs "Inhi logon ne" and "Chalte chalte" from Pakeezah were the #1 and #2 songs of that year on Binaca Geet Mala.
I have nothing against SJ. I think they were good (Basant Bahar, Amrapali, Barsaat etc) but, in my opinion, they were not in the same league as say Naushad, SDB, Madan Mohan, Roshan, C. Ramchandra and Salil Chowdhury.
Anil
Vishwesh Kulkarni
In article <DFzBA...@tigadmin.ml.com>, ahi...@etsd.ml.com ( Anil Hingorani )
|> I have nothing against SJ. I think they were good (Basant Bahar, Amrapali,
|> Barsaat etc) but, in my opinion, they were not in the same league as say
|> Naushad, SDB, Madan Mohan, Roshan, C. Ramchandra and Salil Chowdhury.
Naushad is better than SJ - agreed. But Naushad in the league of SDB, Madan
Mohan and Roshan? Qualitatively, Chitalkar and SC would be better than Naushad
(although Naushad gave a larger number of popular songs and that too over a
long period). Not to forget Anil Biswas who is simply in a league of his own
(or for that matter Sajjad and Ghulam Haider tho' both don't have a vast pool
of songs - the no of films of Naushad might outnumber no of songs which Sajjad
composed :-)). The leagues would be:
Anil Biswas; SDB, MM, R; CR,SC,Naushad; SJ....
---
Faez Nasrudin Kaiser
>
>In article <DFzBA...@tigadmin.ml.com>, ahi...@etsd.ml.com ( Anil Hingorani )
>
>Mohan and Roshan? Qualitatively, Chitalkar and SC would be better than Naushad
>(although Naushad gave a larger number of popular songs and that too over a
>long period). Not to forget Anil Biswas who is simply in a league of his own
>(or for that matter Sajjad and Ghulam Haider tho' both don't have a vast pool
>of songs - the no of films of Naushad might outnumber no of songs which Sajjad
>composed :-)). The leagues would be:
>
>Anil Biswas; SDB, MM, R; CR,SC,Naushad; SJ....
>---
I would have to strongly disagree with your rather low estimation of Naushad.
While music is a matter of personal taste and preference, Naushad definitely
belongs in the highest echelon of any list of music directors. The quality and
variety of music which he sustained over a lengthy period of time is IMO
unmatched. I have no wish to detract from the achievements of others, for I
also enjoy creations such as Anarkali, Malhar, Shaheed, Sangdil, Madhumati and
others.
However, Naushad's range varies from the classical, "Baiju Bawra", to gypsy
music, "Jadoo", and to folk, "Mother India". From Saigal, Rafi and Mukesh to
Noor Jehan, Shamshad, Lata and Asha, their finest work includes Naushad's
music.
I think Naushad deserves his place as one of the finest MD's in Indian cinema's
history, and anything else would be an injustice to the Maestro.
Vishwesh Kulkarni
In article <456s34$p...@mojo.eng.umd.edu>, Faez Nasrudin Kaiser <nasr...@eng.umd.edu> writes:
|> vkul...@bode.usc.edu (Vishwesh Kulkarni) wrote:
|> >composed :-)). The leagues would be:
|> >
|> >Anil Biswas; SDB, MM, R; CR,SC,Naushad; SJ....
|> >---
|> I would have to strongly disagree with your rather low estimation of Naushad.
|> While music is a matter of personal taste and preference, Naushad definitely
|> belongs in the highest echelon of any list of music directors. The quality and
|> variety of music which he sustained over a lengthy period of time is IMO
|> unmatched. I have no wish to detract from the achievements of others, for I
|> also enjoy creations such as Anarkali, Malhar, Shaheed, Sangdil, Madhumati and
|> others.
Naushad's prime contribution, IMO, was that he was able to give a large number
of hummable, popular songs while maintaining a certain (very respectable)
minimum of quality. If we are to go by the quality of songs only, he would face
a very stiff competition. His variety and durability is unquestioned (but is
matched by SJ).
---
Vishwesh Kulkarni
In article <45bunf$r...@drivel.ics.uci.edu>, ppa...@du.ics.uci.edu (Preeti Ranjan Panda) writes:
|> : >Naushad is better than SJ - agreed ... The leagues would be:
|> : >
|> : >Anil Biswas; SDB, MM, R; CR,SC,Naushad; SJ....
|>
|> : I would have to strongly disagree with your rather low estimation of Naushad.
|>
|> Let me also take this opportunity to express my strong disagreement, this
|> time with the relatively HIGH estimation of Naushad :-) and the reappearance
|> of mindless Shanky-J bashing with randomly clustered keyboard strokes that
|> result in ill-conceived sentences like "Naushad is better than SJ - agreed."
|> What metric are you using?
It's an open flame-bait and hard to resist. Every person uses his own measure
(which may evolve with time) which one or more objects might optimise or might
not. Incompatibility of opinions should not draw random mindless ill-conceived
etc stuff criticism.
|> Let me explain my position with the following measurement index of a "great"
|> song - a song that has stood the test of time; a song that appeals to the
|> imagination of absolutely anyone - someone with little or no significant
|> exposure to music, a song that is still hummed by school children decades
|> after it was conceived, a song that is still immensely popular and played in
|> music shops in the remotest parts of the country.
Shanker Jaikishen have given many (more than most) hummable simple tunes with
superb orchestration. Their songs had (and have) a tremendous mass appeal. They
were industry's No.1 music directors.
But their songs lack the ability to lift the soul (hard to describe :-) ; so-
called 'lack of depth' possibly). Just listen to 'intazaar aur abhi' of Anil
Biswas or 'jaate ho to jaao' of Sajjad for instance and then 'aa jaa re' of
S-J, which BTW is a great song, to feel the difference.
Mass popularity doesn't necessarily make songs better. Many remember 'pyar kiya
to darana kya' but how many remember 'prem jogan' from the same movie?
In the latter part of their career (say '62 onwards) S-J went louder and louder
and perhaps the only place for those kinds for songs is paan-Thelaas.
---
Sanjay
As a hard-core popular music fan, I'll have to agree with PR Panda :-)
The "defense", once again will get a NOT-GUILTY verdict for SJ :-))
-SNJ
Vishwesh Kulkarni wrote:
> : |> I have nothing against SJ. I think they were good (Basant
Bahar, Amrapali,
> : |> Barsaat etc) but, in my opinion, they were not in the same league as say
> : |> Naushad, SDB, Madan Mohan, Roshan, C. Ramchandra and Salil Chowdhury.
> : >
> : >ahi...@etsd.ml.com ( Anil Hingorani ) wrote
> : >
> : >Naushad is better than SJ - agreed ... The leagues would be:
> : >
> : >Anil Biswas; SDB, MM, R; CR,SC,Naushad; SJ....
>
Preeti Ranjan Panda wrote:
> : I would have to strongly disagree with your rather low estimation of
Naushad.
>
> Let me also take this opportunity to express my strong disagreement, this
> time with the relatively HIGH estimation of Naushad :-) and the reappearance
> of mindless Shanky-J bashing with randomly clustered keyboard strokes that
> result in ill-conceived sentences like "Naushad is better than SJ - agreed."
> What metric are you using?
>
> Let me explain my position with the following measurement index of a "great"
> song - a song that has stood the test of time; a song that appeals to the
> imagination of absolutely anyone - someone with little or no significant
> exposure to music, a song that is still hummed by school children decades
> after it was conceived, a song that is still immensely popular and played in
> music shops in the remotest parts of the country.
>
> While such a basis of might be debatable, the consideration of mass appeal is
> certainly important. The evergreen songs are those that still play on the
> lips of the current generation, not those that one has to hunt for in the
> "Rare Gems" releases. The music industry has survived through the ages not
> by means of presenting the occasional "masterpieces" like "madhuban mein
> raadhika naache re", but by means of offering explosive pieces like "aawaaraa
> hoon" that stormed the nation when they appeared, and continue to tickle the
> musical senses of millions of Indians generations down the road.
>
> If you come across a Chinese person who has watched a few Indian films, take
> the trouble of asking him if he remembers ANY hindi song. Yes, no points for
> guessing - nine times out of ten, it will be "aawaaraa hoon" indeed! While
> I am not presenting this as "evidence", I do believe that it is songs like
> "aawaara hoon" and "mera joota hai japani" that have defined the very basis
> of popular Indian music and have nurtured and shaped it to the glorious form
> we see today. Shankar-Jaikishan, needless to say, played a pivotal role in
> leading the way through the golden period of the 50s and the 60s. Isn't it
> ironic that these same popular numbers which we grew up with and which
> captured our attention in our formative years are promptly dismissed by us as
> "frivolous" the moment we attain some amount of "education"? Frivolous to
> the theoretician perhaps, but the fact remains that it is a phenomenal task
> to gauge the mood of the people and compose the immortal tunes that
> Shankar-Jaikishan created.
>
> Coming back to comparison of music directors, how many Naushad songs do you
> think have had as much influence over the country? How many are still hummed
> and recognised by people? By "people," I am not referring to those who post
> on RMIM of course, but, say a X std student in school. The only song that
> instantly comes to mind is "suhaani raat dhal chuki." Perhaps a few others
> that you find in Rafi collections like "tu ganga ki mauj" and "aaj puraani
> raahon se", and maybe some from Lata volumes, like "uthaaye ja unke sitam,"
> "dhoondho dhoondho re saajna" and a couple of Pakeezah and Mughal-e-Azam
> songs. There certainly are not sufficient popular numbers to call Naushad the
> "greatest of the greats!" (Now don't you dare to throw in "o duniya ke
> rakhwaale", for that one is only heard in inter-school vocal
competitions! :-)
>
> In contrast, "o basanti pavan pagal" and "aaja sanam madhur chaandni"
> continue to enthrall men and women of all ages. Songs from `Shri 420,'
> `Barsaat,' `Awara,' `Asli Naqli,' `Professor,' `Sangam' and `Dil Ek Mandir'
> are as enticing today as they were decades ago. (Who has heard of `Jadoo'
> today? :-) With all due respect to Naushad and Naushad fans (including
> myself:-) it is not a mistake to conclude that the much vaunted `Shabab,'
> `Uran Khatola' and `Babul' have been truly forgotten by most of India!)
>
> If you are using a vague metric such as "hit ratio", you might have
> a point since Naushad composed for only about 60-odd films and admittedly,
> most of them were popular *in their era*, but if we are talking about
> everlasting melodies, I can only think of SDB as having come close to scaling
> the glorious heights that Shankar-Jaikishan did.
>
> This is not intended as a "slander" of course. I myself adore Naushad's music
> too, but it is an atrocious crime to degrade SJ's great contribution in any
> discussion when they are the duo who have single-handedly had such a
> tremendous influence on popular Indian music - easily the "greatest" of
> them all.
>
> Regards,
> Preeti Ranjan
> -------------------------------------------------------
> --- Mukesh's voice is better than it sounds. ---
> -------------------------------------------------------
Kalyan Kolachala
pass yet another test of greatness - enduring music. You never get tired
of their music even after listening to it a number of times. What is amazing
however is their exceptionally high and unmatched hit-ratio. I am however not
so enthusiastic about bulk of their music in the 60's.
The other surprising thing is that while everybody talks of the SJ-Mukesh
combo, very few talk of the SJ-Lata, SJ-Rafi or SJ-Manna combos.
SJ had Lata singing for them from the very beginning (51) and she delivered
some of her earliest and biggest hits with them. Her melody is matchless in
early SJ films (Barsaat, Awara etc). IMHO, Barsaat would rank as one of the
best of Lata.
SJ used Rafi extensively in the 60's and I can't think of any MD other than
OPN who delivered as large a number of hits with Rafi. Even in RK films they
had Rafi for most non-RK songs.
And finally to Manna Dey, IMHO the most undervalued and underused singer.
Some of his best songs are with SJ in Shree 420, Chori-Chori etc.
- Kalyan
ps: Preeti is a "he", not a "she".
"Jairaj, Vinod" <vja...@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu> wrote:
>HI!
> Preeti Ranjan has put it across clearly about SJ. She is 100%
>right when she says that their music was extremely popular. The beauty
>about their music was the sheer **hummability**. How many people can you
>hear humming O DUNIYA KE RAKHWAALE (mind U, I have nothing against this
>song- it is one of my all time favorites) or MADHUBAN MEIN RADHIKA NAACHE
>RE or EK SHAHENSHAH NE BANWAAKE HASEEN TAJ MAHAL?? On the other hand,
>just when the opening tunes of AAWARA HOON or MERA JHOOTA HAIN JAPANI or
>KISI KE MUSKURA HOTON start, U can find people humming or a lot of
>foot-tapping. Naushad's music may have been better, may be he had a
>better classical base, but when it came to popularity, SJ take the cake.
>Vinod, a HARD-CORE SJ-MUKESH FAN
>
Jairaj, Vinod
At last, I find more than one person NOT criticizing SJ. As you
rightly pointed out, thier hit ratio was the highest ever. BTW, Lata
started singing for them in 1949 with Barsaat (their first).
Incidentally, they have many firsts to their credit. Barsaat was the
first movie in the history of Indian cinema in which ALL the songs (10 in
# were knockouts); I heard somewhere that they were the first MDs to
charge Rs. 5 lakhs; etc. If some one can add to this list, I'll really
appreciate it.
Thanks,
Vinod
Jairaj, Vinod
Preeti Ranjan Panda
: Did you really intend your argument to come out as above? The thing I hold
: agaist S-J is precisely that they "played a pivotal role in leading the way
: through the golden period of the 50s and the 60s" and "nurtured and shaped
: it to the GLORIOUS FORM WE SEE TODAY." :))
The "glorious form of today" :-) I was referring to, was more concerning
the development of the popular music as a flourishing industry. While
people's tastes are bound to change over the generations, the winner is
clearly he who not only sets the trends, but also adapts to changing
circumstances.
I would think it is a matter of debate as to whether the changes in popular
tastes we have seen were "unhealthy" in an absolute sense and whether one
should "hold it against SJ" :-) As you once mentioned, "C. Ramachandra
himself was considered the `bad boy' in 1950!" and yet we rave about his
gems today. Just you wait - Nadeem Shravan's fans would be singing the
same eulogies fifty years hence that you do of CR today :-)
Ikram Ahmed Khan
: I'd compare the two (technically, 1 vs. 2 :-) ) in certain respects.
: Naushad was (is ??) overwhelmingly "hindustani" in style. Although
: I haven't had the privilege of listening to too many of his songs
: ( :-( ), except for the music of "Saathi" (there could be others
: I may be unaware of) all his music is on the serious side lacking
: instrumentation (Saathi's songs were serious but had a fresh breadth
: of orchestration, esp. the sax in "Mera pyaar bhi tu hai"). Nothing
: wrong, except, that it somehow builds a perimeter on his ability.
Just one point here. Naushad was the first Indian to conduct the
Philharmonic orchestra (London, I think?). Nobody can do that without
having a pretty fair knowledge of a> Western music and b> by extension
orchestrisation. This at a time when present hot-shots like ARR not born or
RDB still drooling on his clothes or something.
But the above is not to detract from Shanky-J's achievements by any means.
I like both of them probably would put them in the same league.
Later,
Ikram.
Jairaj, Vinod
Continuing on the SJ-Naushad discussion, I'd say that SJ were
really versatile. I'm sure, more # of singers sang for them than Naushad-
in other words, they could suit their music AND singer to the occassion
and actor/actress. The fact that they could extract SOME music out of
Sharada speaks volumes of their ability.They have come up with some
outrageously funny stuff with Kishore in New Delhi. They were masters of
the classical stuff, too. "Radhike tune bansari churaai", "Jhanak jhanak
tori baaje payalia", etc. are examples. They could come up with the
immortal AAWAARA, MERA JHOOTA HAIN JAPANI, etc., for RK, YAAD KIYA DIL NE
KAHA, JPKHH, for Dev Anand, YEH MERI DIL KAHI AUR CHAL, (an immortal song)
for Dilip Kumar, etc.
On the other hand, Naushad was the MASTER of classical music, but
I don't think he has ever composed the lighter, funny stuff. His music
could never suit the likes of Kishore Kumar as a singer, or actors like
Dev Anand or Shammi Kapoor. (I don't think any Dev or Shammi starrer has
music by Naushad)
Hoping to continue this discussion further,
Vinod, a HARD CORE SJ-MUKESH FAN, but who has nothing against Naushad
Ashok
>
>
> As I pointed out that between 1949-1971 S-J composed for 141 films and over 100
> were bit hits.
^^^^^^^^
>
>
Amen. :))
Ashok
PS: Sorry for expoiting a typo. I don't normally, but I couldn't have
come with a more apt expression if I tried!
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
>HI!
> On the other hand, Naushad was the MASTER of classical music, but
>I don't think he has ever composed the lighter, funny stuff. His music
>could never suit the likes of Kishore Kumar as a singer, or actors like
>Dev Anand or Shammi Kapoor. (I don't think any Dev or Shammi starrer has
>music by Naushad)
This is an interesting point. I wonder how many Naushad films DIDN't
STAR Bharat Bhushan or Dilip Kumar (I mean in that time period, so not
like Guddu or teri Paayal Mere Geet or anything like that).
The ones I know:
Rajendra Kumar: Mere Mehboob, Palki
Joy Mukherjee: Saaz Aur Awaaz
I think this is an interesting thread - netters please add on.
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
>
akif sultan
<asch...@alpha.ntu.ac.sg> wrote:
>In article <Pine.A32.3.91.951012...@red.weeg.uiowa.edu>, "Jairaj, Vinod" <vja...@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu> writes:
>> HI!
>IT is a fact that during 60s S-J were paid 5 lakh/film. During those days
>Dilip was paid Rs 8 lakhs, Shammi and Rajinder Kumar were charging 4 lakhs.
[snip]
Don't you think that the discussion has been taken too far. Here is something
for comaprison.
1) Govinda's mass appeal is more than an order of magnitude greater than
Naseeruddin Shah. The masses of India would be quick to recognize Govinda
though not everyone would know Naseer.
2) Govinda charges much more than Naseeruddin Shah, Govinda is among the
top paid actors of today. Naseer was not paid enough to even survive
decently so he has graduated to do non-hero roles in masala films.
3) Govinda's hit ratio is higher than Naseer's and the distributors would
swear by Govinda and they would think twice before buying a movie by
Naseer.
Conclusion : Govinda is better than Naseeruddin Shah.
Does one always has to appreciate one person (here S-J) by putting down
another (e.g. Naushad). Can't you appreciate and enjoy people as
individuals and discuss their strong and weak points, does it always
has to be at the cost of others.
I hope nobody minds the comparison between Govinda and Naseer. Govinda
lovers can feel happy and Naseer followers, need not care about such
comparisons.
akif sultan
Jairaj, Vinod
I can come up with a few films of Bharat Bhushan and DK which did
not have music by Naushad:
BB:
Janam janam ke phere (Vasant Desai)
Basant Bahar (Shankar Jaikishen)
Rani Roopmati (S.N.Tripati)
DK:
Madhumathi (Salil Chowdhary)
Naya Daur (O.P.Nayyar)
Daag (Shankar Jaikishen)
If my thinking goes right, SJ composed music for EVERY top actor
of those days: RK, DK, Dev Anand, Shammi, Bharat Bhushan, Ashok Kumar,
Kishore Kumar.......
Vinod
Faez Nasrudin Kaiser
In article <45rqoq$h...@cnn.Princeton.EDU>, sanj...@phoenix.princeton.edu (Sanjeev Ramabhadran) writes:
>In article <Pine.A32.3.91.951013...@black.weeg.uiowa.edu> "Jairaj, Vinod" <vja...@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu> writes:
>>HI!
>>I don't think he has ever composed the lighter, funny stuff. His music
>>could never suit the likes of Kishore Kumar as a singer, or actors like
>>Dev Anand or Shammi Kapoor. (I don't think any Dev or Shammi starrer has
>>music by Naushad)
>
>This is an interesting point. I wonder how many Naushad films DIDN't
>STAR Bharat Bhushan or Dilip Kumar (I mean in that time period, so not
>like Guddu or teri Paayal Mere Geet or anything like that).
>
>The ones I know:
>
>Rajendra Kumar: Mere Mehboob, Palki
>Joy Mukherjee: Saaz Aur Awaaz
>
>I think this is an interesting thread - netters please add on.
>
>
>
>Sanjeev Ramabhadran
>>
>
>
The following films of Naushad did not star Dilip, although I
cannot fill in all of the actors. The first twelve or so films
were before Dilip had established himself. Naushad's first film
with Dilip was Mela in 1948, followed by Andaz in 1949. IMHO the
Naushad/Rafi/Dilip combination cannot be surpassed, although I
also enjoy SDB/Dev/Rafi and RK/Mukesh.
Premnagar
Mala
Darshan
Naee Duniya
Station Master
Sharda
Namaste
KHanoon
Sanjog
Jeevan
Geet
Ratan
Anmol GhaRi
Shahjehan
Natak
Dard
Anokhi Ada
Dulari
Dillagi
Dastaan : RK
Jaadu
Diwaana
Baiju Bawra
Shabaab
Mother India
Sohni Mahiwal : Bharat Bushan
Son of India
Mere Mehboob : Rajendra Kumar
Saaz aur Aawaaz : " "
Palki
Saathi
Pakeezah * with GM
and any films after 1970
Faez Nasrudin Kaiser
In article <Pine.A32.3.91.951017...@black.weeg.uiowa.edu>, "Jairaj, Vinod" <vja...@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu> writes:
>HI!
How about these for films starring Dilip with music by somebody other
than Naushad :
Sangdil Sajjad Hussein
Azad C.Ramchandra
Yahudi SJ
Devdas SDB
Shakti RDB
Sagina
Mashaal
Paigham
Insaaniyat
Jwar Bhata
Milan
Musafir
Gopi
Footpath Khaiyaam
Duniya
Arzoo C.Ramchandra
Shaheed
Naushad has mentioned in several interviews how much he enjoyed working
with Dilip. Dilip would expend every effort to add realism to the song
and the prime example of this is "Madhuban Mein Radhika". Dilip spent a
year learning to play the sitar in order to perfect the picturisation of
this song. Naushad happened to meet him after the shooting, and was
shocked to see Dilip's hands wrapped in bandages. When asked why he was
in such a state, Dilip jestfully retorted that Naushad should never have
composed such a difficult piece of music.
The studio system in the fifties encouraged groups, and along with personal
affinity this is why we have a prevalence of Naushad-Dilip, Shammi-SJ and
RK-SJ combinations in films. Given that Naushad composed music for much
fewer films than SJ and his music was based on a classical style, he
primarily chose to work with Dilip since his music did not suit the high jinks
of Shammi or Dashing Dev.
It is not possible to define who was better, Naushad or SJ, for that depends
on personal taste but I will leave you with a quote from Naushad.
"The purpose of an MD is to raise the public's taste, not to fall prey to it".
If you feel that the work of Naushad and SJ succeeded in this, then inane
arguments about who is better, quality versus quantity etc are irrelevant.
Each in their own way contributed to the Golden Age of film music, and that
is the only important consideration when evaluating them.
Preeti Ranjan Panda
: ... Given that Naushad composed music for much
: fewer films than SJ and his music was based on a classical style, he
: primarily chose to work with Dilip since his music did not suit the high jinks
: of Shammi or Dashing Dev.
"chose to work" and "did not suit" phrases are nice euphemisms! :-)
: If you feel that the work of Naushad and SJ succeeded in this, then inane
: arguments about who is better, quality versus quantity etc are irrelevant.
"Let bigots be bigots" [- previously heard from an RMIM guru],
eh what, my dear fellow? :-)
Of course, if you call an argument inane, it's also your responsibility to
point out where the inanity lies.
The point of the thread (which was cleverly transformed later! :-) - for
that matter it was altered several times during its lifetime - Why is it
still called "Naushad on Baiju Bawra?" :-) ) was "Shankar-Jaikishan were
the greatest" - and not whether "Naushad was good" or "SJ were good."
Needless to say, in order to show that element `X' is greater than all
elements of a set 'A' (`A1' to `An' in non-decreasing order), a comparison
has to be performed between `X' and `An'! (This is not to acknowledge that
Naushad is this `An' fellow from even the rest of the MDs, but just for the
sake of argument :-)
This also nullifies, in this context, the other comment that "to
appreciate SJ one need not put down Naushad". Remember that we are not
merely trying to appreciate! :-) - we're proving a theorem. And Naushad is
being put down *only with respect to SJ!!* (which still leaves ample room
for eminence, btw :-) The comparison is *necessary* if the proof of the
theorem is to be valid! (And if the Govinda/Naseer argument was intended to
be an instance of reductio ad absurdum, I missed the apparently obvious
contradiction in the conclusion! :-)
While you are welcome to point out flaws in the arguments or present your
own, I'm afraid you cannot declare that such discussions should not take
place! There are others who would *like* to make such comparisons.
Boy, am i glad you weren't around when Shanky-J were bashed, trampled,
maligned, vilified, calumniated, aspersed, defamed, traduced, denigrated
(all from /usr/bin/webster), stumped, caught and bowled, lbw-ed, ran-out,
over and over on this very same forum in the past! :-) You would have
seethed with rage!
Regards,
Preeti Ranjan
-------------------------------------------------------
--- Mukesh's voice is better than it sounds. ---
-------------------------------------------------------
Since this was a content-free post, here is the MUKESH GEM OF THE WEEK.
`Chhoti Chhoti Baatein' had other great songs too - the automailer has an
article on this film. The other 'zindagi KHwaab hai,' was from the film
`Jaagte Raho,' also a Mukesh/Shailendra combo, music by Salil.
============================================================
Singer: Mukesh
Movie: Chhoti Chhoti Baatein
Music: Anil Biswas
Lyrics: Shailendra
zindagi KHwaab hai thaa humeN bhi pataa
par humeN zindagi se bahut pyaar thaa
sukh bhi the, dukh bhi the, dil ko ghere hue
chaahe jaisaa thaa, rangeen sansaar thaa
aa gayi thi shikaayat laboN tak magar
kise kehte to kyaa, kehnaa bekaar thaa
chal pade dard de kar to chalte rahe
haar kar baiTH jaane se inkaar thaa
chand din thaa basera hamaara yahaaN
hum bhi mehmaan the, ghar to us paar thaa
humsafar ek din to bichhadnaa hi thaa
alvidaa alvidaa alvidaa alvidaa...
============================================================
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
>HI!
> I can come up with a few films of Bharat Bhushan and DK which did
>not have music by Naushad:
>BB:
>Janam janam ke phere (Vasant Desai)
Hi-
One small correction - I believe Janam Janam Ke Phere (which includes
the #1 song of I believe 1956/7 on Binaca - Zara Saamne To Aao Chhaliye)
is by S.N. Tripathi.
Also for BB:
Chandrakanta - N. Datta
Jahan Ara - Madan Mohan
Pyar Ka Mausam (old man) - RDB
Mirza Ghalib - Ghulam Mohammed
Gateway of India - Madan Mohan
Also for DK:
Bairaag: Kalyanji Anandji
Shaheed: (I think) Ghulam Hyder
Jugnu: Feroze Nizami
Gopi: K-A (?)
Saudagar (older man): Ravindra Jain
.
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
After reading a few posts, including my own, I'm a little confused. Who
is the male lead of "Saaz Aur Awaaz" - is it Joy Mukherjee or Rajendra
Kumar?
/
Sanjeev
Sanjay
Ranjan Panda) wrote:
> Of course, if you call an argument inane, it's also your responsibility to
> point out where the inanity lies.
>
> The point of the thread (which was cleverly transformed later! :-) - for
> that matter it was altered several times during its lifetime - Why is it
> still called "Naushad on Baiju Bawra?" :-) ) was "Shankar-Jaikishan were
> the greatest" - and not whether "Naushad was good" or "SJ were good."
> Needless to say, in order to show that element `X' is greater than all
> elements of a set 'A' (`A1' to `An' in non-decreasing order), a comparison
> has to be performed between `X' and `An'! (This is not to acknowledge that
> Naushad is this `An' fellow from even the rest of the MDs, but just for the
> sake of argument :-)
Very well mathematically deduced :-))
The point that was being made was exactly this. An attempt was made to
show that SJ were indeed better than Naushad :-) No attempt was made
to put down Naushad, but only to show his limitations as a composer. I'd
say, if he was versatile in skills (other than classical) and style, he
never showed it. But then, that argument can be extended for any MD.
Therefore, we've got to use the conditional probablity:
P(Naushad music was limited in style | sample space is his entire
film compositions) = 1
:-)))
Anyway, the fact that SJ fan-club has risen to their defense is indeed a
milestone in RMIM's history This is just a small battle in a long
war, and lot of hard work is ahead of us. :-))
Does anyone know precisely which year Shankar died (me thinks it is '79
perhaps Aug.) ? Also, there was a spell when Lata totally stopped singing
for him (after Jaikishen died), but she did sing for a few of his solo
ventures in the 70s, namely
Sanyasi - (74 ??)
Atmaram (??)
Papi Pet ka sawaal hai - (79 ??)
There could be some more movies that I don't have the titles, except that
there was a Sanjiv Kumar movie, with a title ..?.. ka ghar. I'm not sure
if it was Sanjiv's last movie. Could someone please confirm that.
Contrary to what the majority of people believe, I found Shankar's solo
ventures in the 70s to have some very good songs. Wonder if someone has
heard that popular Rafi/Sulakshana Pandit song:
Pardesia tere des mein dil is tarah lagta hai kya..
Another good (lyrics + music) song is by Kishore (Kishore fans check this
out if you haven't already :-))) ) from Atmaram
Chalte chalte in rahon mein kuch aisa bhi ho jata hai
Koi unchaha mil jaata hai, koi man chaha kho jaata hai
I was amazed to find these songs being broadcast in an era when the likes
of BL and LP were generating literal trash. That's what I consider the
greatness of the MD, and the enormous difference in class. SJ at their
worst were better than a lot of other MDs at their best.
> This also nullifies, in this context, the other comment that "to
> appreciate SJ one need not put down Naushad". Remember that we are not
> merely trying to appreciate! :-) - we're proving a theorem. And Naushad is
> being put down *only with respect to SJ!!* (which still leaves ample room
> for eminence, btw :-) The comparison is *necessary* if the proof of the
> theorem is to be valid! (And if the Govinda/Naseer argument was intended to
> be an instance of reductio ad absurdum, I missed the apparently obvious
> contradiction in the conclusion! :-)
Now if I remember even little bit of math, here we are talking latin, isn't
it ? :-))
> While you are welcome to point out flaws in the arguments or present your
> own, I'm afraid you cannot declare that such discussions should not take
> place! There are others who would *like* to make such comparisons.
> Boy, am i glad you weren't around when Shanky-J were bashed, trampled,
> maligned, vilified, calumniated, aspersed, defamed, traduced, denigrated
> (all from /usr/bin/webster), stumped, caught and bowled, lbw-ed, ran-out,
> over and over on this very same forum in the past! :-) You would have
> seethed with rage!
I thought all along it was a total walkover. There was a complete
Naushad clout on this fora. :-)) Abb aaya hai oonth pahad ke niche :-))
SJ were cut down to pieces. Hum zulm bardash karte rahe, karte rahe,
lekin jab paap ka ghada bhar jaata hai .... :))
Later folks...
Sanjay
Pavan Kumar Desikan
: The point of the thread (which was cleverly transformed later! :-) - for
: that matter it was altered several times during its lifetime - Why is it
: still called "Naushad on Baiju Bawra?" :-) ) was "Shankar-Jaikishan were
: the greatest" - and not whether "Naushad was good" or "SJ were good."
: Needless to say, in order to show that element `X' is greater than all
: elements of a set 'A' (`A1' to `An' in non-decreasing order), a comparison
: has to be performed between `X' and `An'! (This is not to acknowledge that
: Naushad is this `An' fellow from even the rest of the MDs, but just for the
: sake of argument :-)
And what is the ordering that you are using to decide if X > An? When I
use the metric (50*(avg no of classical sounding songs) + 50(avg no of hit
movies) - 2000*(no of movies with the gorilla(Shammi)) I get SJ <
Naushad :-). Of course this does not show that Naushad is the greatest,
lekin phir bhii...
My choice of the metric was arbitrary(with apologies to shammi fans) just
for the sake of argument :-)
: While you are welcome to point out flaws in the arguments or present your
: own, I'm afraid you cannot declare that such discussions should not take
: place! There are others who would *like* to make such comparisons.
: Boy, am i glad you weren't around when Shanky-J were bashed, trampled,
: maligned, vilified, calumniated, aspersed, defamed, traduced, denigrated
: (all from /usr/bin/webster), stumped, caught and bowled, lbw-ed, ran-out,
: over and over on this very same forum in the past! :-) You would have
: seethed with rage!
: Regards,
: Preeti Ranjan
: -------------------------------------------------------
: --- Mukesh's voice is better than it sounds. ---
: -------------------------------------------------------
[* Mukesh gem snipped *]
Pavan Kumar Desikan
Department of Computer Science, Duke University, Durham, NC 27708-0129
Internet: p...@cs.duke.edu
HTTP : http://www.cs.duke.edu/~pkd
Kalyan Kolachala
whole world was against SJ. And now everybody seems an SJ fan.
Which reminds me - where's Sami!!
- Kalyan
roopa
(Sanjeev Ramabhadran) says:
>
>After reading a few posts, including my own, I'm a little confused. Who
>is the male lead of "Saaz Aur Awaaz" - is it Joy Mukherjee or Rajendra
>Kumar?
Unless BOTH were in the movie, it has to be Joy M. I think. I distinctly
remember his blank face with a fixed half-smile on it. Although I suppose that
could be him in ANY movie.
I must guiltily admit, though, that because, as someone else mentioned in a
post today, SO many great songs were picturized on him, I used to almost be
quite fond of him, in spite of his completely inane appearance. Where one saw
his silly face, a superb song was never far behind:
-- those wonderful Phir Vohi Dil Laaya Hoon songs
-- "dil ki aavaaz bhi sun"-- with Sharmila in which movie?
-- "haath aaya hai jabse" and others from I think Dil Aur Muhabbat
-- and then the songs from Saavan Ki Ghata
Roopa
Rajiv Shridhar
: What a complete reversal! A few weeks back it looked like the
: Which reminds me - where's Sami!!
:
: - Kalyan
The tide has indeed turned, if only for a couple of moments :-) All
the mathematical calculations presented to prove that S-J were better
composers than others. Wow!! To prove that one composer is good, one has to
prove that this choice is mathematically higher ranked than other composers?
A compelling argument, indeed.
Well, no composing team can really prove superior on the basis of their
record of originality, or of 'lifting tunes', not even S-J. Indeed, this
one criterion is a huge leveller.
It was S-J who gave music to the famous tune that I heard on TV today, as
accompaniment to an ad for some Italian-related thingamajig. When I asked an
Italian colleague about it, she was quick to inform me that the tune was a
popular folk tune in Italy. And the song? Oh, I think maybe the song has
been discussed in RMIM before. :-)
It's "aa jaa sanam madhur chaa.Ndanii me.n ham
tum milen to viiraane me.n bhii aa jaaegii bahaar..."
from Chori Chori, with music by Shankar-Jaikishen, *ing Raj Kapoor and
Nargis, sung by Manna and Lata.
My point being only, why don't we stop the ranking business, and discuss
only the fantastic; after all it can be found in ample amounts in the music
of these great composers?
Best regards,
Rajiv
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Rajiv Shridhar // CSE-NEU // ra...@hendrix.coe.neu.edu
Aur bhi GHam haiN zamaane meiN mohabbat ke sivaa
RaahateN aur bhi haiN vasl ki raahat ke sivaa
-Faiz