Abhi To Main Jawan Hun (#382)
hri...@slb.com
Song: Bhar bhar ke jaam pilaa de
Bhar bhar ke jaam pilaa de
Saaqi banaa de matwaala
Tuu laakh laakh laakh bas banaa de matwaala
Film: Yasmeen (1955)
Singer: Lata Mangeshkar, chorus
Music: C Ramchandra
Lyrics: Rajinder Krishan
*ing: Vyjayantimala, Suresh
Persian locales seem to have been quite popular in the 50s as settings
for love stories, and most seem to satisfy one invariant- forgettable
movies with unforgettable music. I think the mystical middle-east lent
itself rather easily to overwrought histrionics and haunting tunes-
a number of these come to mind- Saaqi (1952), Chor Bazaar (1954) (I think
this one does fall into that category... correct me if I'm wrong), and of
course, today's pick. I'm fantasizing in the extreme here, but I hope HMV
releases the soundtrack of this precious CR classic someday. (I know, what
am I thinking- but their recently demonstrated proclivity towards releasing
some oldies like "Parchhain" rationalizes my delusional hopes, some :-))
"Yasmeen" is like "Parchhain" actually- a Lata/CR heaven. Oh, and a
Talat one too (I remembered, Ashok :-)). "Mujhpe ilzaam-e-bewafaai hai",
"Ab woh raatein kahaan", "Bechain nazar betaab jigar", "Aankhon mein
sama jaao"... the list goes on.
Add to it this lesser known but very charming chorus piece, IIRC the first
song in the movie. It's a dance sequence on V'mala, which of course,
never hurts the eyes. What I found alluring about this song is its volatile
rhythm base; the beat and the pace changes constantly between the solo and
the chorus portions, which nicely complements the change in vocals between
Lata and the rest- like the instruments subside to give way to her voice,
and rise back up when she's done. The orchestral interludes are rather
similar to the ones in "aa gayii hai ishq pe bahaar" from "Saaqi".
BTW, the lyricist for this one may be Jan Nisar Akhtar ; don't have the
exact pstats.
..Hrishi
http://members.tripod.com/~ATMJH/
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ani...@my-dejanews.com
hri...@slb.com wrote:
> course, today's pick. I'm fantasizing in the extreme here, but I hope HMV
> releases the soundtrack of this precious CR classic someday. (I know, what
> am I thinking- but their recently demonstrated proclivity towards releasing
> some oldies like "Parchhain" rationalizes my delusional hopes, some :-))
>
funny, when I found the 'parchhain' cd, the first thought in my mind was
'ok, so how about yasmin now':-)Let's hope someone at HMV is listening. And,
for that matter how about sangeeta, khazana, jhanjhar, shagufa, meenar,
pehli jhalak, sipaiya.....etc.
> "Yasmeen" is like "Parchhain" actually- a Lata/CR heaven. Oh, and a
> Talat one too (I remembered, Ashok :-)).
'yasmin' is truly a desert island soundtrack and represents the best of
Lata/CR(my favorite singer/md combo). Thanks for reminding us of this and
other songs of this wonderful album.
--
Cheers,
Anil P. Hingorani
il_...@yahoo.com
>
> Song: Bhar bhar ke jaam pilaa de
> Bhar bhar ke jaam pilaa de
> Saaqi banaa de matwaala
> Tuu laakh laakh laakh bas banaa de matwaala
>
> Film: Yasmeen (1955)
> Singer: Lata Mangeshkar, chorus
> Music: C Ramchandra
> Lyrics: Rajinder Krishan
> *ing: Vyjayantimala, Suresh
>
> Persian locales seem to have been quite popular in the 50s as settings
> for love stories, and most seem to satisfy one invariant- forgettable
> movies with unforgettable music. I think the mystical middle-east lent
> itself rather easily to overwrought histrionics and haunting tunes-
> a number of these come to mind- Saaqi (1952), Chor Bazaar (1954) (I think
> this one does fall into that category... correct me if I'm wrong), and of
> releases the soundtrack of this precious CR classic someday. (I know, what
> am I thinking- but their recently demonstrated proclivity towards releasing
> some oldies like "Parchhain" rationalizes my delusional hopes, some :-))
>
> "Ab woh raatein kahaan", "Bechain nazar betaab jigar", "Aankhon mein
> sama jaao"... the list goes on.
> Add to it this lesser known but very charming chorus piece, IIRC the first
> song in the movie. It's a dance sequence on V'mala, which of course,
> never hurts the eyes. What I found alluring about this song is its volatile
> rhythm base; the beat and the pace changes constantly between the solo and
> the chorus portions, which nicely complements the change in vocals between
> Lata and the rest- like the instruments subside to give way to her voice,
> and rise back up when she's done. The orchestral interludes are rather
> similar to the ones in "aa gayii hai ishq pe bahaar" from "Saaqi".
>
> BTW, the lyricist for this one may be Jan Nisar Akhtar ; don't have the
> exact pstats.
>
> ..Hrishi
I agree with you 100% that this is indeed a CR-heaven.
One of my favourite movies, music-wise. But just a few
observations. I think "Persian" locales is not quite
correct. "Arabian" locales would be the proper identifi-
caton, regardless of the fact that the movie was shot
entirely in India ! Historically, through the centuries,
Persia (Iran) and the Arab world have been more or less
on inimical, or at least less than friendly, terms. I
do not know whether you have seen the movie. If you have,
you will notice that it is not a full-blown "period" film.
The time-frame may be around 1880 or 1890.
In the "Qahwa-khana", you can see quite a few Anglicised
figures (for want of a better term) smoking cigars and
cheroots. The locales suggested, I think, are the off-
shore areas like Bahrain, Kuwait etc. where there was
considerable British presence, rather than the interior
Arab mainland. Enough of Geography, however.
Apart from the songs you have mentioned, there is
another great Lata solo, a very fast-paced song, with an
unmistakably Arabian music background :
Hans hans ke haseenoN se nazar chaar kiye ja
Vyjayanthimala, as usual, did a great job, enacting this
song on the screen. The song, her dance and the atmos-
phere in the "Qahwa-khana" make for an exhilirating
experience.
"Mujh pe ilzaam-e-bewafaai hai" is definitely by
Jan Nisar Akhtar. One has to be familiar with Urdu to
appreciate how the poet has compressed so much of meaning
in such simple, yet refined and idiomatic, language.
My emphasis here is on "idiomatic".
BTW, the last line in the opening of the song
posted by you may not have "laakh, laakh". I think the
words are "La, la, la, la, bus banaade matwala", meaning
"bring it forth, pour it on....".
Afzal
Balaji A.S. Murthy
>
>#382
>
> Song: Bhar bhar ke jaam pilaa de
> Bhar bhar ke jaam pilaa de
> Saaqi banaa de matwaala
> Tuu laakh laakh laakh bas banaa de matwaala
I think this is
tuu laa, laa, laa, bas banaa de matavalaa
Thanks for a lovely song Hrishi. We had rented this movie a couple of years ago
after reading that this is a desert-island track for Ashok. A truly great
soundtrack. The middle eastern orchestration in the Talat solo is very well
produced. But it would be IMO right to call this is CR-Lata heaven.
I found one thing curious about this song in the movie though. Vyjayanthi is
strumming a guitar while singing this song. Now, isn't guitar more of a Spanish
/Europian instrument than Persian/Middle Eastern? Also, I think the Indian
movies liberally used Arabic/Persian interchangeably, they are different
though, right? I may be wrong about this, but I think in at least one movie, I
forget which, Iran and Baghdad were mentioned in the same breath.
- Balaji
Hrishi Dixit
> > #382
> >
> > Song: Bhar bhar ke jaam pilaa de
> > Bhar bhar ke jaam pilaa de
> > Saaqi banaa de matwaala
> > Tuu laakh laakh laakh bas banaa de matwaala
> >
> > Singer: Lata Mangeshkar, chorus
> > Music: C Ramchandra
> > Lyrics: Rajinder Krishan
> > *ing: Vyjayantimala, Suresh
> >
> >
> > ..Hrishi
>
> I agree with you 100% that this is indeed a CR-heaven.
> One of my favourite movies, music-wise. But just a few
> observations. I think "Persian" locales is not quite
> correct. "Arabian" locales would be the proper identifi-
> caton, regardless of the fact that the movie was shot
> entirely in India ! Historically, through the centuries,
> Persia (Iran) and the Arab world have been more or less
I was watching "Saaqi" the other day and there's this little blurb that
comes up just before the movie starts that mentions the story to be set
in Iran... since the look-and-feel of "Yasmeen" was rather similar to
that, I extrapolated the geography. You're probably right...
Well, if you consider Persia (in the early ADs) as anything east of Europe
and west of India, well.. :-)
> on inimical, or at least less than friendly, terms. I
> do not know whether you have seen the movie. If you have,
> you will notice that it is not a full-blown "period" film.
You're right... I saw it recently. Guess that invalidates my Persia
theory, huh.
> "Mujh pe ilzaam-e-bewafaai hai" is definitely by
> Jan Nisar Akhtar. One has to be familiar with Urdu to
> appreciate how the poet has compressed so much of meaning
> in such simple, yet refined and idiomatic, language.
> My emphasis here is on "idiomatic".
I couldn't agree more. If the lyrics are factored in, this song clocks
as my most favorite song in the movie. Let me ramble on a bit. It's
beautifully penned- a plaintive outpouring of complaint and consolation..
a disillusionment at the inequities of love, and a resigned acceptance
of the same. The way her reaction to the situation transitions
almost linearly from antaraa to antaraa, when she finally rationalizes
it as an inevitability, is to me, true poetic genius.
And what makes it even more appealing, as you rightly point out, is the
innate simplicity of the lyrics... wow !
I couldn't find it in ISB, so I'm going to ahead and spill the lyrics
here... can't resist it :-)
----
Song: "Mujhpe ilzaam-e-bewafaaii hai..."
Artiste: Lata Mangeshkar
Film: Yasmeen (1955)
Music: C Ramchandra
Lyrics: Jan Nisar Akhtar
*ing: Suresh, Vyjayanthimala, Jayant
mujhpe ilzaam-e-bewafaaii hai
ae mohabbat terii duhaaii hai
mujhpe ilzaam-e-bewafaaii hai
usne Thaani hai zulm Dhaane ki
mujh mei.N himmat hai gham uThaane ki
khush ho ae dil tujhe miTaane ki, miTaane ki
aaj usne qasam to khaaii hai
ae mohabbat terii duhaaii hai
mujhpe ilzaam-e-...
tuu huaa dil se kab judaa keh de
mujhse kyuu.N ho gayaa khafaa keh de
tuu hi insaaf se zaraa keh de, zaraa keh de
kisne shart-e-wafaa bhulaaii hai
ae mohabbat terii duhaaii hai
mujhpe ilzaam-e-...
hai ga.Nwaara teraa sitam mujh ko
har jafaa hai terii karam mujh ko
jaan jaaye nahii.N hai gham mujh ko
jab mohabbat pe baat aayii hai
ae mohabbat terii duhaaii hai
mujhpe ilzaam-e-....
----
> BTW, the last line in the opening of the song
> posted by you may not have "laakh, laakh". I think the
> words are "La, la, la, la, bus banaade matwala", meaning
> "bring it forth, pour it on....".
Oops. Thanks for the correction.
..Hrishi
--
Hemlata N. Khemani
> I found one thing curious about this song in the movie though.
> Vyjayanthi is strumming a guitar while singing this song. Now, isn't
> guitar more of a Spanish /Europian instrument than Persian/Middle
> Eastern? Also, I think the Indian movies liberally used Arabic/Persian
> interchangeably, they are different though, right? I may be wrong about
> this, but I think in at least one movie, I forget which, Iran and
> Baghdad were mentioned in the same breath.
I would like info about this Arabic/persian differences too. And I also
tend to think of Guitar as an instrument of Spanish origin, but there is
a string instrument that I have seen in movies which is different from a
guitar. IS it the Lute? What instrument was the hero playing in hte song
"suhaani raat dhal chuki"? Was it the lute or some other instrument?
Also I have heard of an instrument called "rubaab" or something. Maybe I
am wrong about the name because rubaab in Urdu means something like
"pride" or "dignity" I think. Oh well, lots of confusions. Can someone
shed some light on these?
Hema.
neha...@hotmail.com
>> "Mujh pe ilzaam-e-bewafaai hai" is definitely by
>> Jan Nisar Akhtar. One has to be familiar with Urdu to
>> appreciate how the poet has compressed so much of meaning
>> in such simple, yet refined and idiomatic, language.
>> My emphasis here is on "idiomatic".
>
>I couldn't agree more. If the lyrics are factored in, this song clocks
>as my most favorite song in the movie. Let me ramble on a bit. It's
>beautifully penned- a plaintive outpouring of complaint and consolation..
>a disillusionment at the inequities of love, and a resigned acceptance
>of the same.
I really dont agree with either of you. 'Idiomatic'? I didnt get
the 'idiomatic' part in the lyrics. Could you please elaborate?
(thanks hrishi for posting them, warna I would have had to tax
my memory or wait until tomorrow to post:)) I think lot of other
songs have these kind of lyrics. Close to being pedestrian.
>it as an inevitability, is to me, true poetic genius.
Not to take anything away from Jan Nissar Akhtar whom I hold in
high esteem, this song is hardly one that shows off his genius.
This soundtrack is what it is because of the singers and the MD.
Actually, in the soundtrack too, once you hear 'Aankhon mein sama
jaao' and 'Ab wo raatein kahan', you forget that there are other
songs in this soundtrack. These two songs walk away with all the
honours.
>mujhpe ilzaam-e-bewafaaii hai
>ae mohabbat terii duhaaii hai
>mujhpe ilzaam-e-bewafaaii hai
>
>usne Thaani hai zulm Dhaane ki
>mujh mei.N himmat hai gham uThaane ki
>khush ho ae dil tujhe miTaane ki, miTaane ki
>aaj usne qasam to khaaii hai
>ae mohabbat terii duhaaii hai
>mujhpe ilzaam-e-...
>
>tuu huaa dil se kab judaa keh de
>mujhse kyuu.N ho gayaa khafaa keh de
>tuu hi insaaf se zaraa keh de, zaraa keh de
>kisne shart-e-wafaa bhulaaii hai
>ae mohabbat terii duhaaii hai
>mujhpe ilzaam-e-...
>
>hai ga.Nwaara teraa sitam mujh ko
>har jafaa hai terii karam mujh ko
>jaan jaaye nahii.N hai gham mujh ko
>jab mohabbat pe baat aayii hai
>ae mohabbat terii duhaaii hai
>mujhpe ilzaam-e-....
--
Neha Desai
PS: No Ashok, I am not accepting any flames for this post either:) This is
only IMO:)
neha...@hotmail.com
"Hemlata says...
>guitar. IS it the Lute? What instrument was the hero playing in hte song
>"suhaani raat dhal chuki"? Was it the lute or some other instrument?
I have been told(when I posted the 'lehron pe lehar' song) that this
instrument is 'Mandolin'.
>Also I have heard of an instrument called "rubaab" or something.
And then there is some instrument also called 'dilruba':)
>Maybe I
>am wrong about the name because rubaab in Urdu means something like
>"pride" or "dignity" I think. Oh well, lots of confusions. Can someone
>shed some light on these?
I guess instead of shedding light, I just made matter worse, didn't I?:)
--
Neha Desai
hri...@slb.com
>
>In article <36081320...@slb.com>, Hrishi says...
>
>>> "Mujh pe ilzaam-e-bewafaai hai" is definitely by
>>> Jan Nisar Akhtar. One has to be familiar with Urdu to
>>> appreciate how the poet has compressed so much of meaning
>>> in such simple, yet refined and idiomatic, language.
>>> My emphasis here is on "idiomatic".
>>
>>I couldn't agree more. If the lyrics are factored in, this song clocks
>>as my most favorite song in the movie. Let me ramble on a bit. It's
>>beautifully penned- a plaintive outpouring of complaint and consolation..
>>a disillusionment at the inequities of love, and a resigned acceptance
>>of the same.
>
>I really dont agree with either of you. 'Idiomatic'? I didnt get
>the 'idiomatic' part in the lyrics. Could you please elaborate?
>(thanks hrishi for posting them, warna I would have had to tax
>my memory or wait until tomorrow to post:)) I think lot of other
>songs have these kind of lyrics. Close to being pedestrian.
I'll let Afzal handle the idioms. But pedestrian sounds incongruous
to me. The sentiment being expressed here is to some extent pedestrian,
because these kind of situations are quite common in movies. But the
issue here is not WHAT she's trying to express as much as HOW she's
trying to express it. And that is not quite pedestrian in this song
I think, atleast according to the "unimaginative" connotation of
"pedestrian".
>>it as an inevitability, is to me, true poetic genius.
>Not to take anything away from Jan Nissar Akhtar whom I hold in
>high esteem, this song is hardly one that shows off his genius.
Doesn't undermine it either... I like it for the simplicity of
it more than anything else.
>Actually, in the soundtrack too, once you hear 'Aankhon mein sama
>jaao' and 'Ab wo raatein kahan', you forget that there are other
>songs in this soundtrack. These two songs walk away with all the
>honours.
Since the implicit IMO is at work here, this one can slide :-)
>Neha Desai
>PS: No Ashok, I am not accepting any flames for this post either:) This is
> only IMO:)
Maybe not so implicit after all :-)
..Hrishi
Afzal A. Khan
>am wrong about the name because rubaab in Urdu means something like
>"pride" or "dignity" I think. Oh well, lots of confusions. Can someone
>shed some light on these?
>
"Rubaab" is a corruption of the correct Urdu word "R'ob",
which means "pomp & show" or simply "awe". "Rubaab",
I think, is basically an Afghan or Pathan musical instru-
ment. You hear it in songs like the "Bhai Sahab" song
sung by the late C. H. Atma : "Nazar ne keh diya afsaana
mere pyaar ka, Hamesha ankhon men rehta hai...".
Around the 10th century A.D., the Muslim empire
stretched from Spain in the West to Afghanistan in the
East. To be sure, there were different dynasties ruling
in different parts, but there was a commonality of certain
elements throughout the Empire, which included music as
a strong cultural force. Long ago, I had read about some
renowned musicologists from Baghdad whose influence was
absorbed far and wide, including Iran. Of course, these
were comparatively rare treatises from well-known libraries
in India, and now I have only fond memories of those days
when I used to read them spellbound. It is possible that
there may have been some similarities in musical instru-
ments used in Moorish Spain and the Middle Eastern count-
ries. We have the example of the "evolution" of "sarod"
in recent times. As far as "Yasmeen" is concerned, this
debate may be of little consequence as, I am sure, the
movie-makers had little compunction about inter-changing
locales and even the musical instruments with no
consideration to authenticity.
Afzal
>
neha...@hotmail.com
>
>In article <Pine.GSO.3.96L.98092...@unixs-eval.cis.pitt.edu>,
>"Hemlata says...
>>
>>Also I have heard of an instrument called "rubaab" or something. Maybe I
>>am wrong about the name because rubaab in Urdu means something like
>>"pride" or "dignity" I think. Oh well, lots of confusions. Can someone
>>shed some light on these?
>>
>>Hema.
>
> "Rubaab" is a corruption of the correct Urdu word "R'ob",
> which means "pomp & show" or simply "awe". "Rubaab",
There is a gujarati word 'ruaab' which means 'pomp/pride' too. And I am sure
it isnt a corrupted version of the urdu word.
In gujarati when we say 'ketlo ruaab chhaante chhe', it means someone
is showing off(something to that effect). Right Snehalbhai?
--
Neha Desai
vandana...@corp.sun.com
>> which means "pomp & show" or simply "awe". "Rubaab",
>
>There is a gujarati word 'ruaab' which means 'pomp/pride' too. And I am sure
>it isnt a corrupted version of the urdu word.
>
>In gujarati when we say 'ketlo ruaab chhaante chhe', it means someone
>is showing off(something to that effect). Right Snehalbhai?
>
In marathi used to praise "kaay rubaab aahe " or used if
somebody is showing off "kaay ugaacha rubaab maarato".
Vandana
Afzal A. Khan
>
>In article <6u9a7e$j...@pdrn.zippo.com>, Afzal says...
>>
>>"Hemlata says...
>>>
>>>Also I have heard of an instrument called "rubaab" or something. Maybe I
>>>am wrong about the name because rubaab in Urdu means something like
>>>"pride" or "dignity" I think. Oh well, lots of confusions. Can someone
>>>shed some light on these?
>>>
>>>Hema.
>>
>> which means "pomp & show" or simply "awe". "Rubaab",
>
>There is a gujarati word 'ruaab' which means 'pomp/pride' too. And I am sure
>it isnt a corrupted version of the urdu word.
>
>is showing off(something to that effect). Right Snehalbhai?
>
>Neha Desai
"R'ob" is the correct pronunciation too !
"Ruaab" is a corrupted colloquial pronunciation of the
original word. Many Urdu-knowing persons too commonly
use this (corrupted) pronunciation in conversation.
I am sure Gujrati language too has "adopted" this word
from Urdu.
BTW, I do not use "corrupted" in any demeaning sense.
It only means that the "changed" pronunciation has
found favour amongst a large number of people, except
that this "changed" pronunciation has no literary
sanction. The Gujrati sentence quoted above also seems
to be eminently colloquial in nature. Snehal can of
course confirm whether it is also used in a formal,
literary context. My opinion is limited only to
accepted literary URDU usage.
Afzal
neha...@hotmail.com
>>There is a gujarati word 'ruaab' which means 'pomp/pride' too. And I am sure
>>it isnt a corrupted version of the urdu word.
>
> "R'ob" is the correct pronunciation too !
Maybe in urdu.
> "Ruaab" is a corrupted colloquial pronunciation of the
> original word. Many Urdu-knowing persons too commonly
> use this (corrupted) pronunciation in conversation.
> I am sure Gujrati language too has "adopted" this word
> from Urdu.
Why so sure? It could be vice-versa too, no?
Maybe urdu language had 'adopted' this word from gujarati/marathi? :)
Possible no?
> BTW, I do not use "corrupted" in any demeaning sense.
Maybe.
> It only means that the "changed" pronunciation has
> found favour amongst a large number of people, except
> that this "changed" pronunciation has no literary
> sanction. The Gujrati sentence quoted above also seems
> to be eminently colloquial in nature. Snehal can of
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Meaning? I have studies gujarati and that word has appeared not only
in the form I have written, but it has been used to describe kingdoms
and kings etc...
> course confirm whether it is also used in a formal,
> literary context.
Meaning, my saying so is not enough?:)
> My opinion is limited only to
> accepted literary URDU usage.
And mine, to accepted literary GUJARATI usage:)
Regards,
Neha Desai
Hemlata N. Khemani
> >Also I have heard of an instrument called "rubaab" or something.
>
> And then there is some instrument also called 'dilruba':)
>
> >Maybe I
> >am wrong about the name because rubaab in Urdu means something like
> >"pride" or "dignity" I think. Oh well, lots of confusions. Can someone
> >shed some light on these?
>
> I guess instead of shedding light, I just made matter worse, didn't I?:)
no no no...infact you really made the clouds of confusion disappear, for
the instrument I was confused about is actually called "dilruba".
"rubaab"!!!- how did that come to my mind, there is no such instrument by
that name I think. Thanks.
Hema.
Hemlata N. Khemani
> "Rubaab" is a corruption of the correct Urdu word "R'ob",
> which means "pomp & show" or simply "awe". "Rubaab",
> I think, is basically an Afghan or Pathan musical instru-
> ment. You hear it in songs like the "Bhai Sahab" song
> sung by the late C. H. Atma : "Nazar ne keh diya afsaana
> mere pyaar ka, Hamesha ankhon men rehta hai...".
hmm..so there *is* such an instrument!!
H.
neha...@hotmail.com
do with each posting of ATMJH?:)
>Meaning? I have studied gujarati and that word has appeared not only
>in the form I have written, but it has been used to describe kingdoms
>and kings etc...
>
>> course confirm whether it is also used in a formal,
>> literary context.
>
>Meaning, my saying so is not enough?:)
I was reminded of a gujarati song by Asha which has the lines :
eni aNiyaaDi mojaDiye resham no goTo (not sure of this line entirely)
maaro waalam ruaabdaar moTo
^^^^^^^^^
note the use of 'ruaab' here.
And gujarati songs, mostly use correct gujarati, which is why
I, sometimes, find it hard to sift easily through the lyrics of
'taari aankh nu afiNi'. Can someone please post/email the lyrics?
I can make out the mukhada, but find it difficult to make
out the first two lines of the antaras...
This song very well sung by Dilip Dholakia and composed by
probably Ajit Merchant, has a few versions in Hindi.
Couple of them are :
raat ne gesu bikhraaye...
..*something something*....
kisne chheena hai mujhse mere chaand ko...
(Manna and Suman, I think)
and another one goes:
chanda loriyaan sunaaye...(i think from Naya Sansaar)
Anyways, I digress:))
--
Neha Desai
Snehal B. Oza
>There is a gujarati word 'ruaab' which means 'pomp/pride' too. And I am sure
>it isnt a corrupted version of the urdu word.
>In gujarati when we say 'ketlo ruaab chhaante chhe', it means someone
>is showing off(something to that effect). Right Snehalbhai?
Right. Due to Muslim rule in Gujarat for nearly two centuries? (1400-1600 AD
IIRC) many contemporary words are actually Urdu/Arabic/Farsi words.
Snehal
>--
>Neha Desai
Chetan Vinchhi
>
> And gujarati songs, mostly use correct gujarati, which is why
> I, sometimes, find it hard to sift easily through the lyrics of
> 'taari aankh nu afiNi'. Can someone please post/email the lyrics?
> I can make out the mukhada, but find it difficult to make
> out the first two lines of the antaras...
> This song very well sung by Dilip Dholakia and composed by
> probably Ajit Merchant, has a few versions in Hindi.
Here are the lyrics in (approximate) ITRANS format.
song : taaii aa.Nkh no afiiNii
movie : diivaadaa.nDii
singer : Dilip Dholakia
music : Ajit Merchant?
lyrics : ?
taarii aa.Nkh no afiiNii
taaraa bol no ba.ndhaaNii
taaraa ruup nii puunam no paagal ekalo (2)
aaj piidhuu.n darshan nu.n am^Rut |
kaal kasu.mbal kaavo | (2)
taal puraave dil nii dhaDakan
priit bajaave paavo
taari mastii no matavaalo aashak ekalo
taaraa ruup...
aa.Nkho.n nii paDakhe_j parabaDii |
aa.Nkho ju_e piyaavo(?) | (2)
adal-badal tan-man nii mosam
chaatak no chitaraavo
taaraa ra.ng_nagar no rasiyo naagar ekalo
taaraa ruup...
The recording I am familiar with has just two stanzas.
I vaguely remember a cover version of this song having
a third stanza that begins 'tuu maarii raadhaa...'
I have no recollection of the rest of the words. Can
anyone confirm?
Corrections/additions and Pstat-filling are most welcome.
C
K Vijay Kumar
discussed...I have long been curious about the exact meaning of the
following lines
udaas udaas fizaao.n me nuur chhalakaao
bujhe bujhe hue taaro.n ko ha.ns ke chamakaao
guruur-e-husn salaamat na raah dikhalaao
rabaab Duub gaya khu-e-dil me ab to aa jaao
which precede Talat's "aana hi pa.Dega, sar ishq ke qadamo.n me jhukaana
hi pa.Dega" (Lala Rukh, 1958, Khayyam, Kaifi Azmi)
Can Afzal or someone who knows Urdu well decipher these for me? Mind you
I am not sure that I have the words exactly right, either..
--
Vijay
----------------------------------
The Truth - any which way you want
-----------------------
vijay...@hotmail.com
hsuv...@adobe.com
vandana...@corp.sun.com wrote:
> In article <6u9bs6$k...@pdrn.zippo.com>, neha...@hotmail.com says...
> >
> >In article <6u9a7e$j...@pdrn.zippo.com>, Afzal says...
> >>
> >>I
> >>
> >> which means "pomp & show" or simply "awe". "Rubaab",
> >
> >it isnt a corrupted version of the urdu word.
> >
>
> >is showing off(something to that effect). Right Snehalbhai?
> >
> somebody is showing off "kaay ugaacha rubaab maarato".
>
> Vandana
>
Let me add Telangana Telugu usage of 'ruaab'.
'ruuab kodthunnav be, saa..'.
It just means the same. showing off.
thx.
Harish
neha...@hotmail.com
>
>Here are the lyrics in (approximate) ITRANS format.
Thanks Chetan for the lyrics. Now can you also help with some
meanings? And though I know meaning of some words of the
antara, I find it difficult to understand exactly is meant by
them. I understand the song is in the praise of eyes and beauty.
>kaal kasu.mbal kaavo
what does 'kamsumbal kaavo' mean?
>priit bajaave paavo
and paavo?
>aa.Nkho.n nii paDakhe_j parabaDii |
>aa.Nkho ju_e piyaavo(?) | (2)
Please confirm if 'paDakhe_j' mean beside
and parabaDii means : free water source (parab)
I hear it the same way but dont understand it:(.
>chaatak no chitaraavo
aney 'chaatak no chitaraavo'?
>The recording I am familiar with has just two stanzas.
>I vaguely remember a cover version of this song having
>a third stanza that begins 'tuu maarii raadhaa...'
>I have no recollection of the rest of the words. Can
>anyone confirm?
I have only these two stanzas in my recording.
Thanks again.
Regards,
Neha
Afzal A. Khan
>
>In <6u9bs6$k...@pdrn.zippo.com> neha...@hotmail.com writes:
>
>>There is a gujarati word 'ruaab' which means 'pomp/pride' too. And I am sure
>>it isnt a corrupted version of the urdu word.
>
>>is showing off(something to that effect). Right Snehalbhai?
>
>IIRC) many contemporary words are actually Urdu/Arabic/Farsi words.
>
>Snehal
As Snehal has rightly observed, there must be many
contemporary words (in Gujrati and other Indian languages
like Marathi too) whose origin can be traced to Urdu/
Arabic or Persian words. Urdu itself is an amalgam of
so many different languages, insofar as its vocabulary
is concerned. That is how languages evolve over the
centuries. To quote just a few instances, Urdu has
borrowed and adopted the word "laalten" from the English
word "lantern". There is no other word for this article
in Urdu. On the flip side, English has borrowed and
assimilated the word "jungle" from Urdu. The Urdu word
for "room" is "kamra", which is adapted, I believe, from
the Italian word "camera" which means a Box or "Enclosed
Space". Long years ago, when I was seeking admission in
College, I had an interview with the College Principal,
who was a kindly old Maharashtrian gentleman. He told
me in Hindustani (easier version of Urdu): "Aapka
admission to hum ne pehle he kar liya hai. Ab to aap
jaaiye aur paRhai ki shuruaat keejiye." I thought to
myself : This kindly person knows Urdu pretty well.
To my surprise, I soon learnt that "shuruaat" is used in
the Marathi language too, with exactly the same meaning !
Although Urdu is a very rich language, I feel
it still has a lot of scope for expansion of vocabulary.
There are many words in other languages which deserve
to be assimilated in Urdu. One such word is "karuna".
I first came to know this word while listening to the
immortal melody of Ustaad Abdul Karim Khan Sahab:
"Gopala mori karuna..". I do not think there is any
word in Urdu which conveys the same connotation as the
word "karuna". If it depended on me, I would straightway
include it in the Urdu vocabulary !
Coming to the question whether "ruaab" was an
original Gujrati word and could have been adopted in
Urdu language, I have given it considerable thought
and am inclined to disagree. If it was so, Urdu
dictionaries would definitely have carried this word.
But, to my knowledge, they don't. Instead, they only
have the (original) "r'ob" as mentioned by me earlier.
You can also find other "derivatives", like "r'ob-daar"
and "r'ob-o-daab", but you may not find "ruaabdaar" etc.
Even in Urdu, I think the word has been assimilated
from Persian. For instance, there is a Persian expression
"r'ob-e-husn", which means the "awe induced by (the
beloved's) beauty". In the circumstances, I am inclined
to agree with Snehal that, like so many Gujrati words,
this too may have been adopted from Urdu. Spellings in Urdu
are a matter of great difficulty. There are several letters
which have the same phonetic sound. Words cannot be trans-
cribed purely on the basis of their "phonetic" spelling.
"R'ob" is one such word. It has to be written with an
"'ain" and not with "waav", although both spellings would
give the same phonetic pronunciation.
I think I have already mentioned that the "Rabaab"
is a musical instrument. In this context, I quote the
following sher of Iqbal, one of the greatest Urdu poets of
this century :
Aa tujh ko bataoon main, taqdeer-e-umam kya hai
Shamsheer-o-sinaaN awwal, taoos-o-rabaab aakhir
Umam=Peoples (used metaphorically for Empires). Taqdeer=Fate
Shamsheer=Sword. SinaaN=Spear-head (Plural)
Taoos=a large guitar-like musical instrument. Also, Peacock
(Probably an instrument shaped like a peacock)
Rabaab=a stringed musical instrument.
"Shamsheer-o-sinaaN" are used metaphorically to denote the
Sinews of War. Similarly, "taoos-o-rabaab" are used to
denote indulgence in pleasures of the senses (Song & Dance)
The poet says : Let me tell you the story of the Rise & Fall
of Empires. So long as they have the military capability to
withstand and triumph over their enemies, they continue to
prosper. Once their peoples yield to other temptations, their
downfall begins.
So, can we now go back to "Yasmeen" and CR and Lata/Talat
and appreciation of melodious music ? High time.
Afzal
>
>>--
>>Neha Desai
Hrishi Dixit
> I guess it's my day for posting:). Hrishi, do you realise what you
> do with each posting of ATMJH?:)
Sure I do.. that's why I post :-)
--
__________________________________________________________
Afzal A. Khan
>
>Hemlata N. Khemani wrote:
>>
>> On 22 Sep 1998, Afzal A. Khan wrote:
>>
>> > I think, is basically an Afghan or Pathan musical instru-
>> > ment. You hear it in songs like the "Bhai Sahab" song
>> > sung by the late C. H. Atma : "Nazar ne keh diya afsaana
>> > mere pyaar ka, Hamesha ankhon men rehta hai...".
>>
>> hmm..so there *is* such an instrument!!
>>
>> H.
>Sorry, I am joining the thread mid-way and am not sure if this has been
>discussed...I have long been curious about the exact meaning of the
>following lines
> udaas udaas fizaao.n me nuur chhalakaao
> bujhe bujhe hue taaro.n ko ha.ns ke chamakaao
> guruur-e-husn salaamat na raah dikhalaao
> rabaab Duub gaya khu-e-dil me ab to aa jaao
>
>which precede Talat's "aana hi pa.Dega, sar ishq ke qadamo.n me jhukaana
>hi pa.Dega" (Lala Rukh, 1958, Khayyam, Kaifi Azmi)
>
>Can Afzal or someone who knows Urdu well decipher these for me? Mind you
>I am not sure that I have the words exactly right, either..
Unfortunately, I have never been able to see this movie, which
has truly glorious music. I particularly remember the Rafi
solo: "Hai kali kali ke lab par, tere husn ka fasaana".
The lines quoted above are an invocation addressed to the
beloved to make an appearance. "The entire atmosphere is dark
and gloomy. Come and spread light all around. Even the stars
are dim. Come and smile, so that they can regain their brightness.
May your hauteur remain unaffected, but do not make me wait
endlessly. My heart is bleeding and even my Rabaab is now drowned
in this blood. At least come now." And then Talat launches into
that beautiful song. The last line, I think, should read :
Rabaab doob gaya khoon-e-dil men...."
Afzal
>--
>Vijay
Chetan Vinchhi
>
> Thanks Chetan for the lyrics. Now can you also help with some
> meanings?
I will try. But my knowledge of Gujarati is very limited.
> >kaal kasu.mbal kaavo
>
> what does 'kamsumbal kaavo' mean?
'kasu.mbii' is a substance derived from , related to or similar to
opium. 'kasu.mbal kaavo' is a concoction containing this substance.
"I am so thoroughly addicted to the intoxication of your eyes
I will have to resort to intoxicating drinks when I cannot see
them tomorrow"
> >priit bajaave paavo
>
> and paavo?
'paavo' is a wind instrument not unlike the pennywhistle,
perhaps a little bigger.
> Please confirm if 'paDakhe_j' mean beside
> and parabaDii means : free water source (parab)
Yes.
> >chaatak no chitaraavo
>
> aney 'chaatak no chitaraavo'?
chaatak is a bird. "chitaraavo" might mean call/song/sound
of the bird. There is some significance of the chaatak's
singing (sort of like koyal kii kuuk) that I cannot remember
at this time.
C
neha...@hotmail.com
>
> As Snehal has rightly observed, there must be many
> contemporary words (in Gujrati and other Indian languages
> like Marathi too) whose origin can be traced to Urdu/
> Arabic or Persian words. Urdu itself is an amalgam of
> so many different languages, insofar as its vocabulary
> is concerned. That is how languages evolve over the
> centuries. To quote just a few instances, Urdu has
> borrowed and adopted the word "laalten" from the English
> word "lantern". There is no other word for this article
> in Urdu. On the flip side, English has borrowed and
> assimilated the word "jungle" from Urdu.
Really?
Well, according to Webster:
Main Entry: jun·gle
Etymology: Hindi jangal forest, from Sanskrit jangala desert region
--
Neha Desai
Kalyan
> me in Hindustani (easier version of Urdu): "Aapka
By "Hindustani", are you referring to Hindi? My understanding is
that Hindi (alongwith Persian) is a parent language of Urdu.
Kalyan
vandana...@corp.sun.com
>
>
>> >chaatak no chitaraavo
>>
>> aney 'chaatak no chitaraavo'?
>
>chaatak is a bird. "chitaraavo" might mean call/song/sound
>of the bird. There is some significance of the chaatak's
>singing (sort of like koyal kii kuuk) that I cannot remember
>at this time.
>
The call of chaatak is closely associated with the rains.
It is said that when the chaatak bird looks heavenwards and calls out, he is
either paying his obeisance to the rains. Or he is beseeching them to come down.
Vandana
vandana...@corp.sun.com
> who was a kindly old Maharashtrian gentleman. He told
> me in Hindustani (easier version of Urdu): "Aapka
> admission to hum ne pehle he kar liya hai. Ab to aap
> jaaiye aur paRhai ki shuruaat keejiye." I thought to
> myself : This kindly person knows Urdu pretty well.
> To my surprise, I soon learnt that "shuruaat" is used in
> the Marathi language too, with exactly the same meaning !
>
Vandana
Snehal B. Oza
>> what does 'kamsumbal kaavo' mean?
>'kasu.mbii' is a substance derived from , related to or similar to
>opium. 'kasu.mbal kaavo' is a concoction containing this substance.
>"I am so thoroughly addicted to the intoxication of your eyes
>I will have to resort to intoxicating drinks when I cannot see
>them tomorrow"
Well, kAvo is typical kAthiAwAdi word. I can explain to you but am unable to
find synonym in Gujarati. It refers to drink that we prepare by using some
substance -- usually drug (madicinal or otherwise) -- mixed in water. The
mixture is then heated. After some time (once it returns to normal temperature)
it's filtred and that filtered drink is called kaavo.
>> >priit bajaave paavo
>>
>> and paavo?
>'paavo' is a wind instrument not unlike the pennywhistle,
>perhaps a little bigger.
>> Please confirm if 'paDakhe_j' mean beside
>> and parabaDii means : free water source (parab)
>Yes.
>> >chaatak no chitaraavo
>>
>> aney 'chaatak no chitaraavo'?
>chaatak is a bird. "chitaraavo" might mean call/song/sound
>of the bird. There is some significance of the chaatak's
>singing (sort of like koyal kii kuuk) that I cannot remember
>at this time.
I never thought my hobby of bird watching be useful on RMIM! :) Ths bird's
call is 'piyuu piyuu'. The tale is that this bird doesn't drink water for
whole year until it rains. During rains it drinks falling droplets only. Well
it's just a lok-kathA and nothing real. Hope this is suffecient to connect
'parab'.
Snehal
>C
Anand Tiwari
>
>Hemlata N. Khemani wrote:
>>
>> On 22 Sep 1998, Afzal A. Khan wrote:
>>
>> > "Rubaab" is a corruption of the correct Urdu word "R'ob",
>> > which means "pomp & show" or simply "awe". "Rubaab",
>> > I think, is basically an Afghan or Pathan musical instru-
>> > ment. You hear it in songs like the "Bhai Sahab" song
>> > sung by the late C. H. Atma : "Nazar ne keh diya afsaana
>> > mere pyaar ka, Hamesha ankhon men rehta hai...".
>>
>> hmm..so there *is* such an instrument!!
>>
>> H.
I want to point out that the 'rabaab' is a stringed instrument from Afghanistan.
In the junior G magazine supplement to the making of 'Khuda Gawah', LP discuss
how they used the 'rabaab' for this film, which had an Afghani background. The
best song from 'Khuda Gawah', "Tu na jaa mere baadshah", makes good use of the
rabaab.
Anand
sm...@lehigh.edu
ites:
>I want to point out that the 'rabaab' is a stringed instrument from Afghanistan
>In the junior G magazine supplement to the making of 'Khuda Gawah', LP discuss
>how they used the 'rabaab' for this film, which had an Afghani background. The
>best song from 'Khuda Gawah', "Tu na jaa mere baadshah", makes good use of the
>rabaab.
Another example would be the prelude of the Zanjeer song "Yaari hai imaan mera
yaar meri zindagi...." IIRC, it was also used extensively in the background
score for Feroz Khan's Dharmatma which was set in Afghanistan.
Sami Mohammed (A Naushad fan)
>
>Anand
>
il_...@yahoo.com
> > contemporary words (in Gujrati and other Indian languages
> > like Marathi too) whose origin can be traced to Urdu/
> > Arabic or Persian words. Urdu itself is an amalgam of
> > so many different languages, insofar as its vocabulary
> > is concerned. That is how languages evolve over the
> > centuries. To quote just a few instances, Urdu has
> > borrowed and adopted the word "laalten" from the English
> > word "lantern". There is no other word for this article
> > in Urdu. On the flip side, English has borrowed and
> > assimilated the word "jungle" from Urdu.
>
>
> Well, according to Webster:
>
> Main Entry: jun·gle
> Etymology: Hindi jangal forest, from Sanskrit jangala desert region
>
> --
> Neha Desai
Obviously, it is not being suggested that the English
word was "borrowed" directly from the Sanskrit. The
Sanskrit original refers to a "dry piece of land" or
"desert", whereas "jungle" is used in the sense of
"forest". "Jungle" has been used in Urdu for a very
long time and continues to be used in the same sense.
A sher by Zauq :
Wahshi ko humne dekha us aahoo-nigaah ke
jangal men bhar raha tha qulaancheN haran ke saath
Besides, this word "entered" the English language in the
late 18th century, when a British official compiled "The
Gentoo Code". That was the time when the East India Co.
was consolidating the British hold in our country. At
that time Urdu and Persian were the languages commonly
used in polite society and official circles. Even in the
judicial field, the Britishers were establishing the
Sadar Nizaamat Adaalat and the Sadar Deewani Adaalat in
Bengal. These are essentially Persian/Urdu titles. The
first Urdu-English dictionary was published, I think, in
the first half of the nineteenth century.
There must be hundreds, if not thousands, of words which
are common to Urdu and Hindi. As I mentioned earlier,
Urdu is an amalgam of several languages. Being Indian
in origin, its grammar is mainly borrowed from "Bhasha"
or "KhaRi Boli", whereas the vocabulary has borrowed
heavily from Persian, Arabic, Turkish and other languages.
The above sher is illustrative of this. "Qulaanch" is a
Turkish word, meaning "Spring, Jump or Caper". But why
should we discuss a single word ? The main point I was
making was that languages borrow from each other and
that makes for an expansion of their vocabulary. We are
familiar with the English words "sex appeal". This has
been absorbed in the French language too. "Sang froid"
is a well-known French expression. It has been in use
in English too for many many years. If one reads the
poetry of Nazir Akbarabadi, or Insha or even Arzoo
Lucknawi, one will find a very large number of words
which are commonly used in Hindi too. There are so
many common or similar words in Persian and Sanskrit.
"Finger" in Persian is "angusht" (with a soft 't' sound).
In Sanskrit, I think, it is "angushth" (with a hard 't'
sound and an "h" following the 't'). "Pitra" in Sanskrit
is "Pidar" in Persian.
Reverting to the original "issue", "Ruaab" is not
an Urdu word. Since similar sounding words are to be
found in Gujrati, Marathi and even Telugu, maybe this
points to a common original source !!
Afzal
Nitin Sharma
: In article <6udjv2$3...@pdrn.zippo.com>, anand...@hotmail.com(Anand Tiwari) wr
: ites:
: >I want to point out that the 'rabaab' is a stringed instrument from Afghanistan
: Another example would be the prelude of the Zanjeer song "Yaari hai imaan mera
: yaar meri zindagi...." IIRC, it was also used extensively in the background
And yet another from the delectable Kabulivala, the song: "Ai mere
pyaare vatan, ai mere bichade chaman, tujh pe dil qurbaan"...
The film has other traditional/folk (i'd assume) pieces of afghani music
during the course of the film, which use the above instrument.
Off topic: What a performance by Balraj Sahni in the film!
-nitin
Anand Tiwari
says...
Haven't seen the hindi 'Kabulivaala' though i am pretty sure Balraj Sahni must
have excelled in it. The Bengali film on RabindraNath tagore's story,
'Kabulivaala' had the great Chhabi Biswas in the title role and was directed by
Tapan Sinha. Chhabi Biswas gave an immortal performance and the film i believe
won the national award.
Anand
>
> -nitin
Pranav Mehta
Chetan Vinchhi wrote in message <36095F...@lucent.com>...
>neha...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Chetan for the lyrics. Now can you also help with some
>> meanings?
>
>I will try. But my knowledge of Gujarati is very limited.
>
>> >kaal kasu.mbal kaavo
>>
>
>'kasu.mbii' is a substance derived from , related to or similar to
>opium. 'kasu.mbal kaavo' is a concoction containing this substance.
>"I am so thoroughly addicted to the intoxication of your eyes
>I will have to resort to intoxicating drinks when I cannot see
>them tomorrow"
>> >chaatak no chitaraavo
>>
>> aney 'chaatak no chitaraavo'?
>
>chaatak is a bird. "chitaraavo" might mean call/song/sound
>of the bird. There is some significance of the chaatak's
>singing (sort of like koyal kii kuuk) that I cannot remember
>at this time.
>
>C
Couple of corrections.
In the first stanza, it's "aaj pivuuN" and not "pidhuN". Nayak says that
I'll drink the amrit of her beauty today and will postpone drinking other
worldly nectars till tomorrow.
In the second stanza, it's "chaatak no chakraavo" and not "chitaraavo". I
think the verb "chakaraavun" is used in the sense that the hero is longing
for the heroine the way a chaatak would for his chaataki!
Regards,
Pranav