The mood of Raag Shankara - a layman's question
Abhay
currently presenting a series on closely related raaga-s. Today she
had taken up Hamsadhwani and Shankara.
When demonstrating Shankara, she chose a bandish that I thought didn't
work at all. I tried figuring out what was wrong and realised that
most (all?) of the memorable Shankara renditions I have heard have
been imbued with gravitas, a quality that was completely missing from
this rendition. The words of the bandish did little to help: IIRC,
"kaanhaa chho.Do bai.nyaa, na kar la.Dakaiyaa.N, dekhe morii maiyaa".
Is there something about Shankara that precludes 'shR^i.ngaar ras'? Or
was it just that the presenter's limitations did not allow the
romantic theme to flower in the raag?
As the film song representative for Shankara, she played Lata's
"jhanana jhanajhanaake apanii paayal" ('Aashiq', music by S-J). I have
no idea how faithful the song is to the raag, but I must say it
depicted "shR^i.ngaar ras" a great deal more effectively than the
classical rendition did!
Warm regards,
Abhay
Abhik Majumdar
I don't know about the presenter's limitations, but there can be no
question of Shankara being unable to sustain the shringar ras.
Numerous bandishes exist that depict the romantic mood, starting from
Abdul Karim Khan's "aaj suhaag", then Tasadduq Hussain Khan's "aiso
dheet langar kara jhakjhori", then "brij mein dhuum machai", "sakhi
jhulana jhulaai", many others I'm sure.
Abhik
Vivekanand P V
Yes.
There is a traditional Sadra composition (sung in Dagar tradition)
emphasising Shr^ngar. The wrods are:
vArU rI mr^ga dragana kO
tErE nainana para bhave kamAna
bAna vArU palakana para.......
(It is composed by Inayat Khan Dagar)
Abhik Majumdar
Oh yes of course! Had forgotten about it! Surely one of my most
favourite compositions in Shankara. Didn't know it was by Inayat Khan
Dagar, thanks for the info.
Abhik
djames
the presenter was not manjari asnare-kelkar. it was manjiri
alegaonkar. james
abhayphadnis
(snip)
>
> the presenter was not manjari asnare-kelkar. it was manjiri
> alegaonkar. james
It was indeed Manjiri Alegaonkar. Mea culpa.
Today morning was a much better presentation. She presented Miyan
Malhar and Bahar. She chose Kumar Gandharva's bandish-es for both
raaga-s and did a good job. There was one amusing bit though: when
talking about what differentiates the two raaga-s from each other, her
last point was, "Miyan Malhar typically has bandish-es whose words
relate to the rains, while the bandish-es in Bahar usually have
references to spring." Isn't there a bit of reverse logic at work
here??
Warm regards,
Abhay
Vivekanand P V
> relate to the rains, while the bandish-es in Bahar usually have
> references to spring." Isn't there a bit of reverse logic at work
> here??
She is right.
But, what is the reverse logic, you are talking about? Can you explain
it further?
abhayphadnis
Of course she is right! My point was that the bandish being written
for Malhar brings in the rain references, or a rain-related lyric is
chosen for Malhar - it is not that a reference to the rains
automatically makes it Malhar! So also with Bahar and spring. I
thought there was some confusion of cause and effect here.
Warm regards,
Abhay
Havanur
> Of course she is right! My point was that the bandish being written
> for Malhar brings in the rain references, or a rain-related lyric is
> chosen for Malhar - it is not that a reference to the rains
> automatically makes it Malhar! So also with Bahar and spring. I
> thought there was some confusion of cause and effect here.
>
> Warm regards,
> Abhay
Which brings up another question - is there anything about Malhar that
links the raga to to rains, besides the historical references and
bandishes? For example assume an "average" listener who attends HCM
concerts often but cannot recognise ragas or an informed CCM listener
who has strayed into HCM for variety. If they are presented with karim
naam tero plus a tarana and asked about the rasa/bhava of the raga
what are the chances that the answer will come anywhere close? Even if
you give a hint that it is about one of the seasons, is there a better
than random chance that it will be associated with rains?
Havanur
Vivek Datar
This is a research subject where we need to expose sufficiently large
number of random set of people (those who aren't aware of Malhar) and
figure out. Parag Choradia (not 100% sure about name) did a similar
study a while back. I understand he now teaches music. It will be good
if he, or a student picks up this as a project.
-Vivek
> Havanur
Vivekanand P V
> concerts often but cannot recognise ragas or an informed CCM listener
> who has strayed into HCM for variety. If they are presented with karim
> naam tero plus a tarana and asked about the rasa/bhava of the raga
> what are the chances that the answer will come anywhere close? Even if
> you give a hint that it is about one of the seasons, is there a better
> than random chance that it will be associated with rains?
>
> Havanur
It is indeed difficult, (if not impossible) to recognise Malhar
variants associated with the rains for a stray listener.
I feel it is our preconditioning to lit up ourselves with the mood of
rains when we listen to any of these.
Just a digression. We know Vasanta R^tu represents the joy of new
beginning in nature. How come the raga Basant had a deep pensive mood?
Don't you feel the raga associated with spring must be as joyful as,
say Deshkar?
-
v
Vivekanand P V
> for Malhar brings in the rain references, or a rain-related lyric is
> chosen for Malhar - it is not that a reference to the rains
> automatically makes it Malhar! So also with Bahar and spring. I
> thought there was some confusion of cause and effect here.
>
> Warm regards,
> Abhay
Interesting!
I just remembered two compositions.
1. Kedar: Savan Ki Boondaniya (sung by Bhimsen Joshi)
2. Deshkar: Aayi Badariya Savan Ki (sung by Ajoy Chakrabarty)
These two are not the ragas of rains, but still the compositions look
similar to typical malhar compositions. There may be many such
instances.
Of course, HCM in its present state has seldom relevance to cause and
effect theories of any repute, I feel!
Abubakr
The various ragas associated with spring are so varied in terms of
scale and moods they create that it makes the association nothing more
than an poetic device for the sahitya, at least to me. At least the
members of the Malhar group carry similar melodic gestures, so we can
equate the Malhar raganga with the mood of the rains but how are
Basant, Hindol, Bahar etc connected?
Vivekanand P V
> members of the Malhar group carry similar melodic gestures, so we can
> equate the Malhar raganga with the mood of the rains
This itself is a preconditioning we imbibed, I suppose.
When we say it is by those clusters we get the mood of rains, it must
pass the DNA test with a listener who knows nothing (absolutely
nothing) about HCM and its ragas. If one such listener feels that the
piece of malhar indeed brought the rains to his mind, we may then try
generalising. I feel Havanur's combination would be ideal in such
test. (Kareema Naama Tero + a Tarana)!
Niranjan Ghaisas
> Which brings up another question - is there anything about Malhar that
> links the raga to to rains, besides the historical references and
> bandishes?
>
> Havanur
The same doubt arises in case of raagas named on other seasons. Does
Raag Hemant, for example, evoke anything related to the winter
season?
Hemant is relatively recent - credited to Ust. Alauddin Khan and
popularized by Pt. Ravi Shankar and Pt. Nikhil Banerjee. However, it
is not clear whether he had any association with the winter season in
mind while conceptualising it. Today, however, it has explicit
seasonal references in its bandishes.
Pranav Peshwe
> In "Sangeet Sarita" on Vividh Bharati, Manjiri Asanare-Kelkar is
> currently presenting a series on closely related raaga-s. Today she
> had taken up Hamsadhwani and Shankara.
>
Can you share with us the time and day when the programme is
broadcast ?
Many thanks in advance.
abhayphadnis
Every morning at 7:30 am IST.
Warm regards,
Abhay
bnadig
Ah, I was very fond of Sangeet Sarita and used to listen to it
everyday, but that was years ago... It was a 15 minute program with
one Hindi film song followed by a short classical piece and some
explanation of the raga lakshanas in between... Delighted to learn
that Sangeet Sarita is still alive... Do they still follow the same
format? Is this a Radio or TV program now? Netxt time I am in India I
will certainly check it out...
Regards
Balu
Imnot Apadmashri
> Ah, I was very fond of Sangeet Sarita and used to listen to it
> everyday, but that was years ago... It was a 15 minute program with
> one Hindi film song followed by a short classical piece and some
> explanation of the raga lakshanas in between...
While film song - raga lakshana - bandish is probably the most common
format, artists have on occasion deviated from it. Yes, it still airs
(AIRs, get it?) on Vividh Bharati. The fare is a mix of new
recordings and replays of old ones. Durdarshan continues to pretend
ICM doesn't exist.
DG
bnadig
wrote:
Glad to learn that "Sangeet Sarita" is still getting some AIR;-)
People looked at me quizzically when I said I wanted to listen to
"Radio Sangeet Sammelan", as if I was from some other planet...
And car radios seemed to feature a lot of ludicrous singing and
endless chatter... No wonder I felt like I was from some other
planet...:(
I stayed away from Dur-darshan - I had no time for it and it had none
for me....
Kalyan
Thanks, Abhay, for initiating a great discussion. It motivated me to
resume my nth attempt to get up early and work towards fitness while
listening to two great programs - Bhule bisre geet (7-7:30 AM) and
Sangeet Sarita till 7:45 AM. (How about some aerobics set to teen
taal :) Make that drut if you really want to get rid of those extra
pounds)
I thought this series was somewhat disappointing in trying to squeeze
too much into 15 minutes. As it is, 15 minutes is too less for a raaga
but it is a decent introduction with the aaroh, avaroh, signature
taans/phrases, traditional bandish followed by 1-2 film songs. Fitting
it two raagas in the same time and also explaining the differences in
15 minutes doesn't work. In the episodes I heard, the differences were
explained in barely a sentence.
There used to be programme in doordarshan which was much better. One
of the hosts was Renuka Shahane and used to be about 30 mins. I used
to watch the repeat telecast around 1:30 AM after returning late from
work (wasn't yet married). I wonder if the show is re-telecast these
days or if it is available elsewhere.
Kalyan
Imnot Apadmashri
> There used to be programme in doordarshan which was much better. One
> of the hosts was Renuka Shahane and used to be about 30 mins.
Kalyanamastu! All TV programs are about 30 min including
commercials! Did you have this one in mind?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnlFSc0ULG0
DG
Kalyan
wrote:
No, I wasn't referring to Surabhi. I was talking about a DD program
that was on classical music intro with each episode on a difft raga,
similar to sangeet sarita but more detailed - I had assumed that the
content would be clear from the context. I tried google but without
much success.
Kalyan
abhayphadnis
(snip)
>
> I thought this series was somewhat disappointing in trying to squeeze
> too much into 15 minutes. As it is, 15 minutes is too less for a raaga
> but it is a decent introduction with the aaroh, avaroh, signature
> taans/phrases, traditional bandish followed by 1-2 film songs. Fitting
> it two raagas in the same time and also explaining the differences in
> 15 minutes doesn't work. In the episodes I heard, the differences were
> explained in barely a sentence.
I agree completely about the time allocated for the programme - I have
always felt a 30-minute programme would do justice to the classical
aspect. Manjiri Alegaonkar's attempt at taking up two raaga-s in 15
minutes was ambitious and didn't work very well. The current series is
even more ambitious: they take a Hindustani raag and its Karnatak
equivalent, and have one Hindustani singer and one Karnatak singer
explain the elements of "their" raag, do the 'swara' and 'chalan'
demo, present a classical piece each, do a short 'jugalbandi', play
(part of) a Hindi film song based on the Hindustani raag, *and* sing a
light composition based on the Karnatak raag - all in 15 minutes! The
rate at which they rush through the demos has to be heard to be
believed. (In the midst of all this, Chandrashekhar Vaze - the
Hindustani singer - found time in one of the programs to illustrate,
with examples, how a slight twist could turn Marwa into either Puriya
Dhanashri or Sohni!)
I can't recall the DD programme you spoke about - the only one I can
remember having Renuka Shahane as compere was "Surabhi", which you
have already said wasn't the one you meant.
While on DD: while I am in sympathy with DG's description of it as
"Durdarshan" today, there was a time when they took classical music
seriously. For some time, they had a National Programme on Music (and
Dance), and I remember some great performances in some of these
(recitals by Mansur and Gangubai come to mind immediately, as also a
marvellous Odissi performance by Sanjukta Panigrahi - my first
experience of the magic of dance!). There was a host of Marathi
programmes that dealt very well with the performing and literary arts.
The Sunday morning show "pratibhaa aaNi pratimaa" was one such show.
There were other programmes (I don't recall the names now) compered by
people like Suhasini Mulgaonkar and Ashok Ranade that regularly
featured greats from the field of music. The programmes tended to be
of a high quality, partly due to the fact that the comperes understood
the field very well and could hold informed, intelligent discussions
with the guests they invited.
ye aur baat hai ki ab vo sab duur kii baate.n rah ga_ii.n...aaj rah
gayaa hai bas 'durdarshan'!
Warm regards,
Abhay
Abhik Majumdar
Baap re! Even marginally informed listeners like yours truly would end
up very confused. And since the objective is to introduce music to lay
audiences, I'd say this exercise breaches new grounds in
pointlessness.
> how a slight twist could turn Marwa into either Puriya Dhanashri or Sohni!)
Do you mean straight Pooriya here?
> the only one I can remember having Renuka Shahane as compere was "Surabhi"
As an aside, you can find several episodes of Surabhi on youtube. Just
heavenly, that programme was! Goes to show the current doldrums TV
(both government and private) is in, has nothing to do with a dearth
of talent.
> While on DD: while I am in sympathy with DG's description of it as "Durdarshan" today, there was a time when they took classical music seriously.
DD Kolkata still does. Very interesting progs they broadcast
sometimes, especially those recorded at Ramakrishna Mission, Gol Park.
Abhik
abhayphadnis
(snip)
> > how a slight twist could turn Marwa into either Puriya Dhanashri or Sohni!)
>
> Do you mean straight Pooriya here?
Yes! Don't know why I typed it in as Puriya Dhanashri. :(
Warm regards,
Abhay
xs...@yahoo.com
interesting because only two days back, i attended a concert
in which 'karim naam tero' was presented without the name of
the raag being introduced. this led to some initial bewilderment
on the part of this lay listener because it was evocative of the rains
though the signature words of the monsoon were missing from
the bandish. it took me a few minutes to make up my mind that
it was indeed malhar. i was helped by the fact that it was raining
outside. but i don't get the full (paisa vasool) pleasure of a malhar
without lyrical support and of course appropriate climatic conditions
add to the pleasure.