Koyii hotaa jisko apnaa....
SKalra902
plays the 'koyii hotaa....." mukhadaa tune, down to the last note. Since the
MD was Salil Chowhdury for both the films, one can safely say that he too used
the background music from one film for the song compositions of later film(s).
How frequently, though, is the question.
Any other instances? Someone?
Happy listenings.
Satish Kalra
Pankaj Vyas
has appeared as background Sitar piece in more than one movie before the
song .
It was definitely in Sangam. Do not remember the other movies though.
Ek Tera Sundar Mukhda
Ek Tera Pyar Se Bhara Dil
Milna Mushkil
Pankaj Vyas
"SKalra902" <skal...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020224230942...@mb-cs.aol.com...
Anindya
> Was watching Anand a short while ago. At one juncture, the background music
> plays the 'koyii hotaa....." mukhadaa tune, down to the last note. Since the
> MD was Salil Chowhdury for both the films, one can safely say that he too used
> the background music from one film for the song compositions of later film(s).
interestingly (I'm sure this'd have been discussed before), the same
"Koi hota.." tune is played in the background, on saxophone, in
Gulzar's Achanak (songless) - which had music by Vasant Desai and
background music by Salil. (not sure how the two MDs allocated wrok
between them, this being a songless movie!)
Anindya
Suresh
As far as Salil goes - I think I can recall more than a few. "Bagh me
kali kili" is used pretty often, "Aaja re pardesi" was used in "Jagte
Raho", strains of "Hariyala sawan dol" maye be heard in "Jhoola" -
tho I confess it is just a strain.
And I also recall his having used "Jab se mili tose akhiyan" in one of
his later movies' background.
Suresh
ajit
> Gulzar's Achanak (songless) - which had music by Vasant Desai and
> background music by Salil. (not sure how the two MDs allocated wrok
> between them, this being a songless movie!)
>
> Anindya
If the BGM of a songless movie was doen by Salil Chaudhary, then how
come Vasant Desai is credited as MD? Are there any songs that were
dropped from the movie?
Srajak
In the last shot (When Meena Kumari is shot and transported in an ambulance)
you can hear 'Teri Galiyo.n mei.n ham aaye" played (on Flute).
- Surendra
(Bhool Chook Leni Deni)
Have you hummed your fav song today?
http://www.hindimidi.com
"Suresh" <apl_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9fb42d70.0202...@posting.google.com...
Afzal A. Khan
By "any other instances", do you mean by other Music
Directors ? In that case, one can cite quite a few
examples from SJ films. Another striking example is
from Naushad. In "Amar", released in 1954, one can
hear the "Ram Aur Shyam" dhun "Ram ki leela rang laayi"
in the background. There was a gap of about 14 years
between the two films.
Afzal
SKalra902
>
> By "any other instances", do you mean by other Music
> Directors ? In that case, one can cite quite a few
> examples from SJ films. Another striking example is
> from Naushad. In "Amar", released in 1954, one can
> hear the "Ram Aur Shyam" dhun "Ram ki leela rang laayi"
> in the background. There was a gap of about 14 years
> between the two films.
>
> Afzal
My query was more related to Salil Da. SJ have too many numbers that fit that
category, at least until the very early 60's. This was the first time I
noticed Salil Da .... May be there are other isntances, just as pointed out by
Surendra Rajak. Time to repeat the old titles, I guess, this time primarily
for the musical tracks. :)
Happy listenings.
Satish Kalra
Anindya
> Afzal Khan wrote:
>
> >
> > By "any other instances", do you mean by other Music
> > Directors ? In that case, one can cite quite a few
> > examples from SJ films. Another striking example is
> > from Naushad. In "Amar", released in 1954, one can
> > hear the "Ram Aur Shyam" dhun "Ram ki leela rang laayi"
> > in the background. There was a gap of about 14 years
> > between the two films.
> >
> > Afzal
>
> My query was more related to Salil Da. SJ have too many numbers that fit that
> category, at least until the very early 60's. This was the first time I
> noticed Salil Da ....
Salil, in fact, was one MD who quite revelled in it. Apart from the
examples already pointed out, I can also think of the tune "teri
galiyon mein hum aaye" (Minoo) played prominently on the flute,
several times during Chhoti si Baat (remember the ending sequence when
Amol and Vidya get married?).
Anindya
Anindya
> 'Mere Apne' itself has melodic references to dada's other songs.
>
> In the last shot (When Meena Kumari is shot and transported in an ambulance)
> you can hear 'Teri Galiyo.n mei.n ham aaye" played (on Flute).
>
oh, saw this post AFTER I sent out the mail on "Teri galiyo.n mein"
being played on the flute in the last shot of Chhoti Si Baat. So,
that'd make "Teri galiyo.n.." kind of unique, in a sense?
Also, while watching the song "Ye din, kya ye, lage phool hasne"
(CSB), I observed that the 1st antara ("Sone jaise lag rahi hai har
subah mer") is repated again as the 3rd antara. Quite unusual, isn't
it?
Anindya
rk_u...@yahoo.com
"Anindya" <andy...@hotmail.com> wrote
> Salil, in fact, was one MD who quite revelled in it.
Babumosahi SalidDa reveled in recycling his bong tunes
in Malayalam films and then further recycling it in Hindi
movies from Mallu movies. This on top of recycling
background music of a movie in some song, or recycling
Mozart tunes.
And all this when he composed around 60 odd films
in 20 yrs :-)
RK-
Anindya
ah, the stand-up comic is back (that diaper-change took awfully long,
but congrats, anyway). Was kinda missing those primary-school level
posts :)
>Babumosahi
since you keep reminding me of my identity, I take it that you are
still in search of one, yourself. May I wish you luck in your pursuit?
SalidDa reveled in recycling his bong tunes
> in Malayalam films and then further recycling it in Hindi
> movies from Mallu movies. This on top of recycling
> background music of a movie in some song, or recycling
> Mozart tunes.
>
> And all this when he composed around 60 odd films
> in 20 yrs :-)
therefore, by the inverse-popularity logic, he would be the best
composer ever, no?
giving you around 5 years to figure that one out..I'll wait.
Anindya
ajit
No RK - SALIL composed for 75 Hindi movies, 23 Mallu movies, 25
Bengali movies and about 15-20 movies in various other languages.
True, he did recycle many of his tunes. However how many of those were
recycled from Mozart's tunes? I am quite curious to know.
I personally like the way Salil recycled his tunes - he used a
different orchestration each time. In fact, the Hindi and Bengali
versions of "O sajana barkha bahaar aayee" sound so very different!
About BGM/title music by Salil - I have just one word - AWESOME!
whether in a commercial film or a documentary or a TV serial!
Suresh
> in Malayalam films and then further recycling it in Hindi
> movies from Mallu movies. This on top of recycling
> background music of a movie in some song, or recycling
> Mozart tunes.
Hmmm,... is this supposed to a critique on Salilda ?
I see nothing wrong in him redoing his own tunes in different
languages - and I wonder how long the anti-Salils are going to hang
him for one "Itna na mujhse tu ptar badha" and overlook the 100s of
other brilliant compositions that he has given.
Reg his usage of the same tune in multiple languages. I think where
Salilda's genius comes in is adopting a tune to the situation of the
tune.
For example, Lata's "Kaino kichu kotha, bolo na" was a fairly
fast-paced number - it translated to Kishore's "Maujhonki dholi chali
re" as a bidaai number - and then in Malayalam, hauntingly rendered by
P.Susheela "Neeyum vidhavayo, nilave" as a song dripping with pathos.
Returning to tunes-made-to-songs, "Toote na dil toote na" was played
at times in the BG score for Mela(? I think that it was Mela - could
be Dillagi too) on flute. And of course, one can identify the prelude
music of "Hamare dil se na jana" in "Tu ganga ki mauj main".
cheers,
Suresh
rk_u...@yahoo.com
> since you keep reminding me of my identity
why??? aren't you proud of being a bong.
Shaan se Kaho Hum Bong hain.
Anyhow this is for your delectation:-
Greatest Singer : Kishore Kumar
Greatest MD : RDB
Greatest City : Kolkata
Greatest State : West Bengal
Greatest Language : Bengali
Greatest Soccer team: Mohan Bagan
ah, that was my good deed of the day.
RK-
Anindya
but my greatest online village idiot remains a non-Bong :)
Anindya
>
> RK-
rk_u...@yahoo.com
"Anindya" <andy...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f43baef6.02030...@posting.google.com...
Since I am in a good mood today, I admit that the greatest
chauvinistic moron I have encountered is a bong. Given that
you are the first bong in my "greatest" list, please take it
as a compliment.
While we are at it, here is an article on 'greatest' KK
and also a rejoinder by 'greatest flamer' Ashok.
enjoy.
============================
Kishore Kumar: Evergreen Entertainer!
Kishore Kumar - there is only one such person in the history of Indian
cinema!
"True genius" is perhaps the only word to describe him, for he defies any
one
particular definition for an artiste. He could sing and dance; act and
mimic;
write and compose; make you laugh and cry; and he lived a life that
challenged
all social norms. Kishore Kumar's hilarious movies, and his ever-enchanting
songs make him the most memorable multifaceted talent of Bengali origin of
all
times.
Born on August 4, 1929, in Khandwa, Madhya Pradesh, India, Abhas Kumar
Gangoly
(his real name) was the youngest son of Kunjhalal Gangoly and Gauri Devi.
Music
and culture was in his blood. In Kishore's own words: "My father was a
pleader
(advocate) who earned Rs 30 a month. My mama, Dhananjay Banerjee, a
classical
singer, was the only family link I had with music. But I was never trained
to be
a singer. It was my brother Dadamoni (Ashok Kumar) who learnt music from the
well-known Saraswati Devi."
Neither school nor college interested him. As he once said: "I used to
compose
different tunes for different subjects. For instance, I composed a tune for
a
paragraph on the Malthusian theory of population." Music was the heart and
soul
of Kishore. "Very early in life I was fascinated by K.L. Saigal. I used to
save
my pocket money to buy his records. He's my real guru."
When his elder brother Ashok Kumar became a favourite Bombay Talkies hero,
Kishore and his younger brother Anoop were still struggling to pass out
college
exams. The family finally moved to Bombay in 1946, in the hope that Ashok
Kumar,
whose career as an actor had just taken off, would be able to find jobs for
the
boys in films. That's how Kishore Kumar went on to become an actor, which he
never wanted.
"I only wanted to sing.But somehow.I was persuaded to act in the movies. I
hated
every moment of it and tried virtually every trick to get out of it." But
Kishore did make a successful film career. As he said, "I was the biggest
draw
after Dilip Kumar. There were so many films I was doing in those days that I
had
to run from one set to the other, changing on the way." He acted in some
eighty
films in all, the most remarkable being Chalti Ka Naam Gaadi, Door Gagan Ki
Chhaon Mein, and Parosan.
Today Kishore Kumar's fame rests almost entirely on his wonderful legacy of
songs. Beginning with Ziddi in 1948, Kishore Kumar produced thousands of
soulful
songs with immense fervour, intense emotion and exceptional versatility. He
sang
for all the Bengali music directors of Bollywood, from Sachin Dev and Rahul
Dev
Burman, Anil Biswas and Salil Chowdhury to Hemant Kumar, Shyamal Mitra and
Bappi
Lahiri. He received many national and international awards and did stage
shows
all over the world. He is often compared with the likes of Bob Hope and
Danny
Kaye. Kishore also produced and directed about a dozen movies. His favourite
director was Alfred Hitchcock.
Although born outside Bengal, Kishore Kumar was a true Bengali, from all
possible points of view.
Unforgettable Puja Songs
To the Bengalis, Kishore is most memorable for his Puja albums, which mostly
contained Bengali songs that he composed himself. Who can forget the magical
semi-classical rendition in Noyono Sharashi Keno, Aamar Moner Ei Moyur
Mahaley,
Aamar Dweep Nebhano Raat? His Bangla fun songs Shingh Nei Tobu Naam Taar
Shingho, Bum Chicki Bum, Gaaner Gaw Jaani Na, and Daake Lokey Aamake Clown
are
one-of-its kind in the history of Bangla "gaan".
Kishore & Ray
The great Bengali filmmaker Satyajit Ray never failed to recognise his
genius.
He summoned Kishore for the playback of the Tagore songs in Charulata and
Ghare
Bairey. Ray also wanted him to act in Parash Pathar, and sing the songs of
Goopi
Gayin Bagha Bayin, which never happened. Kishore is rumoured to have lent
him
five thousand rupees during the production of Ray's seminal debut film
Pather
Panchali (Song of the Little Road).
Kishore & Hemanta
Kishore cut two "Rabindra Sangeet" albums under the baton of Hemanta
Mukhopadhyay, who was also the composer of many of his most popular "Adhunik
Gaan" (pop songs), like Aamar Pujar Phool and Shey Jeno Aamar Pashey Aajo
Boshe
Aachhe. Kishore's Bengali films include the extremely popular Lukochuri
(Hide'n'seek), Dushtu Projapoti (The Naughty Butterfly), and a few other
memorable flicks.
The Unhappy Heart
This exciting person, who made us laugh and cry with his scintillating
performances, was not a happy man in personal life. He married four times,
all
actors - Ruma Ghosh, Madhubala, Yogeeta Bali and Leena Chandravarkar.
Kishore
Kumar died of a heart attack in Mumbai on 13th October, 1987. He is survived
by
his wife Leena and sons Sumit and Amit Kumar, who is also a gifted singer.
The Inimitable Voice
Kishore Kumar will always be remembered for his lively, sonorous and
flexible
voice that today's singers try to copy in vain. Kishore Valicha, in his book
Kishore Kumar, The Definitive Biography, writes: "It may not be wrong to say
that Kishore Kumar's was the second golden voice India has produced, if the
first is that of Kundan Lal Saigal. Kishore's voice was not only a
magnificent
intonation in itself but belonged to the tradition-governed glorious era of
melody, which ended, in a way, with his departure. Kishore Kumar marked the
end
of an era of great film music."
========================================
Search Result 1
From: Ashok (ADhar...@WorldBank.Org)
Subject: Re: Kishore Kumar: Evergreen Entertainer
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.misc
View: Complete Thread (53 articles) | Original Format
Date: 2001-08-14 21:20:27 PST
Ketan, I thought you always "respected copyrights" by posting
on the URL and not the article. Now, what made you change
the policy and dump this Bong inanity on us? We don't really
need additional proof of the stupid lengths to which Bengalis
go to stake their claims where it simply doesn't belong. What
has Kishore got to do with Bengaliculture anyway? He was great
precisely to the extent that he was not a Bengali.
>In memory of his 72nd birth anniversary, bengaliculture.about.com has this
>feature on Kishore Kumar. Most of the stuff has been written before and
>discussed. However, I am particularly interested in reviews from people
>knowledgeable about his Bengali work--Rabindra Sangeet, Adhunik Gaan, et
al.
>What was the reaction of the Bongs when HE sang Rabindra Sangeet?
Amusement?
>Anger?
Contempt, actually. He was a poor Raveendra Sangeet singer. Actually,
make it more general: he was a poor Bengali singer.
>Kishore Kumar: Evergreen Entertainer!
>...................Kishore Kumar's hilarious movies, and his
ever-enchanting
>songs make him the most memorable multifaceted talent of Bengali origin of
all
>times.
What an idiotic sentence!
>Born on August 4, 1929, in Khandwa, Madhya Pradesh, India, Abhas Kumar
Gangoly
>(his real name) was the youngest son of Kunjhalal Gangoly and Gauri Devi.
Music
>and culture was in his blood. In Kishore's own words: "My father was a
pleader
>(advocate) who earned Rs 30 a month. My mama, Dhananjay Banerjee, a
classical
>singer, was the only family link I had with music.
So, waht was the case? Music was in his blood or not?
>"I only wanted to sing.But somehow.I was persuaded to act in the movies. I
hated
>every moment of it and tried virtually every trick to get out of it."
This goes directly against the legend that KK acolytes have spread
on RMIM: that he didn't sing more--to the extent of letting Rafi
playback for him--because he was concentrating on his "acting career",
if you can call it that..
>Today Kishore Kumar's fame rests almost entirely on his wonderful legacy of
>songs.
OK. Put zero in front of all other facets of the "most memorable
multifaceted
talent of Bengali origin of all time".
>................................................................. He sang
>for all the Bengali music directors of Bollywood, from Sachin Dev and Rahul
Dev
>Burman, Anil Biswas and Salil Chowdhury to Hemant Kumar, Shyamal Mitra and
Bappi
>Lahiri.
This is what this Bong idiot is proud of--that Bong MDs made sure that
another Bong got the opportunity to sing?
>He received many national and international awards and did stage shows
>all over the world.
What international awards has Kishore gotten?
>Although born outside Bengal, Kishore Kumar was a true Bengali, from all
>possible points of view.
Let me pass this by without comment.
>The Inimitable Voice
>Kishore Kumar will always be remembered for his lively, sonorous and
flexible
>voice that today's singers try to copy in vain. Kishore Valicha, in his
book
>Kishore Kumar, The Definitive Biography, writes: "It may not be wrong to
say
>that Kishore Kumar's was the second golden voice India has produced, if the
>first is that of Kundan Lal Saigal. Kishore's voice was not only a
magnificent
>intonation in itself but belonged to the tradition-governed glorious era of
>melody, which ended, in a way, with his departure. Kishore Kumar marked the
end
>of an era of great film music."
Actually, melody took a back seat exactly when Kishore got going as a
fullfledged
playback singer.
> What was Kishore favourite place?
>"I am determined to get out of this futile rat race and live as I've always
>wanted to. In my native Khandwa, the land of my forefathers. Who wants to
die in
>this ugly city?" ~ Kishore Kumar
Or in that wretched Bengal. So much for "a true Bengali, from all possible
points of view"!
Such writing--and such cheapness--from the land of Tagore! Ketan, I suggest
that you leave Begali trash for Bengali consumption.
Ashok
Ket...@att.net
says...
>Babumosahi SalidDa reveled in recycling his bong tunes
>in Malayalam films and then further recycling it in Hindi
>movies from Mallu movies. This on top of recycling
>background music of a movie in some song, or recycling
>Mozart tunes.
Leaving aside RK's stupid remarks..I am more interested in the path a Salil tune
took. I would say...his tunes followed the:
Bengali--->Hindi---->Malayalam/Other Languages route.
So a question for Salilites...was there any tune that went straight to Hindi
films or other non-Bengali films?
Was there a tune that went straight from its Bengali original--Malayalam and
then came back to Hindi films?
Ketan
Pradeep Dubey
When taking about a complete eco-system, you should not be surprised that
there is significant amount of recycling.
On the other hand, if you have only been exposed to forests which are part
of a much larger eco-system, you would only see song currents flowing from
one forest to another, and cycles may come as a shock.
Pradeep
P.S.
'bang' se doobo is bong ke saath, bang ki tarang meiN:
panjab sindh gujrat maratha, dravid utkal bang
vindhya himachal yamuna ganga, uchhval jaladhi tarang
rk_u...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<a5u6as$a60mk$1...@ID-75254.news.dfncis.de>...
Anindya
> Since I am in a good mood today, I admit that the greatest
> chauvinistic moron I have encountered is a bong. Given that
> you are the first bong in my "greatest" list, please take it
> as a compliment.
>
> While we are at it,
we are at NOTHING, buddy. There isn't any war on, AFAIK. My posts are
essentially musical, and not "regional" (except in repartee).
here is an article on 'greatest' KK
> and also a rejoinder by 'greatest flamer' Ashok.
hmmm...lousy article (lost interest half-way through, didn't read the
full thing) - the author's as sick and parochial as you are. So,
what's your point?
And what am I supposed to do? Dig out some article from some Marathi
site proclaiming Hridaynath is the world's greatest MD or something?
And throw it on Ashok's face? and assume that all Marathis are
parochial and moronic?
Nope, since I have better sense than that (neither do I have the
bandwidth to dig out out-of-context, irrelevant articles from the net
to prove my point, especially when there's no point to be proven!).
Unlike you (and Ashok!), these things are not important to me at all.
Unbelievable as it may sound, I came to know at a relatively late age
that KK was a Bong, and that his surname was Ganguli. Years before
that, I had made KK and RDB my idols already. (when I fell in love
with the Amar Prem, Namak Haram etc. songs - I did not even know there
was a concept of MD (like all toddlers, I too believed that the hero
himself composed, wrote and sang the songs!), forget RDB being a
Bengali). To me, therefore, KK and RDB being Bongs is only incidental.
And why am I rambling on, about all this? Do I REALLY need to justify
ANYTHING, to anyone, least of all, to YOU? Nope, but just thought I'd
set the records straight, which will probably urge you to come up with
something more interesting, next time (this one is getting stale :)).
Advice: when you have limited intellectual resources, you need to
marshall them carefully. Do not spend them trying to dig out stupid
articles to justify your warped arguments. Try something more
meaningful instead. Like building up LOGICAL contentions to your
points of view on WHY you think KK is a lousy singer. Too much too
ask, I know, but you need to start SOMETIME!
btw, I agree with most of what Ashok had to say, strangely. It'll be
ridiculous to call KK a true son of Bengal. Apart from a few songs and
the odd movie here and there, he has precious little to do with
Bengali culture. As we all know, he could not even read the Bengali
script, and had his songs written out in Hindi. But so what?
Anindya
ajit
That article posted by Mr RK mentions about Kishore Kumar getting some
INTERNATIONAL awards. Which are they?
Thanks,
Ajit
rk_u...@yahoo.com
> we are at NOTHING, buddy. There isn't any war on, AFAIK.
buddy??
do u know the meaning of buddy before u assume me to be one :-)
Just kidding.
> Unlike you (and Ashok!), these things are not important to me at all.
> Unbelievable as it may sound, I came to know at a relatively late age
> that KK was a Bong, and that his surname was Ganguli. Years before
> that, I had made KK and RDB my idols already. (when I fell in love
> with the Amar Prem, Namak Haram etc. songs - I did not even know there
> was a concept of MD (like all toddlers, I too believed that the hero
> himself composed, wrote and sang the songs!), forget RDB being a
> Bengali). To me, therefore, KK and RDB being Bongs is only incidental.
You can be excused when you were a toddler. After all one doesn't expect
a kid to appreciate music like adults. If at this age you still call
KK's singing (and that too a raddi song), it reflects so poorly about
ur musical sense. Just like those panchamites in yahoo egroup who claim
that KK's rendition of Neele Neele Ambar(kalakaar) is great. YUCK.
If u are a connoisseur of good music, specially vocal, by now u should
have outgrown KK songs. Film songs in general are hardly any yardstick
to judge singing ability, more so KK's songs which are eminently light.
cheers.
RK-
Surajit A. Bose
andy...@hotmail.com (Anindya) wrote:
> And what am I supposed to do? Dig out some article from some Marathi
> site proclaiming Hridaynath is the world's greatest MD or something?
> And throw it on Ashok's face? and assume that all Marathis are
> parochial and moronic?
There you go with the unwarranted assumptions again, "Andy". Since when
is Ashok a Marathi? He'd probably agree with you that Marathis are
parochial and moronic.
-s
Anindya
> a kid to appreciate music like adults. If at this age you still call
> KK's singing (and that too a raddi song),
I have never said anything about Gaana na aaya being a great
song/singing. Pl. don't attribute other ppl's comments to me to suit
your convenience.
it reflects so poorly about
> ur musical sense. Just like those panchamites in yahoo egroup who claim
> that KK's rendition of Neele Neele Ambar(kalakaar) is great. YUCK.
>
exactly how differently (or better) do you think a Rafi or Talat would
have rendered that song (remember: THAT particular song..pl. do not
bring in cliches like "could KK have sung Madhuban me raadhika?)? Can
you explain logically. with reference to music?
> If u are a connoisseur of good music,
I have never made any such claims, but compared to you, I think I am.
You see, my musical tastes are my own - they do not change according
to other ppl's remarks/recommendations/threats. If you feel its "hip"
to do some KK-bashing, once in a while, probably to earn some
accolades from some "senior" members...or whatever, go ahead, by all
means. But I certainly do not think I need anyone to tell me what I
should listen to, and what I shouldn't.
specially vocal, by now u should
> have outgrown KK songs. Film songs in general are hardly any yardstick
> to judge singing ability, more so KK's songs which are eminently light.
the above comment sums up YOUR musical understanding (or lack of it),
more than anything else. The hilarity of it is too much for me to even
attempt a reply. But if film songs are hardly a yardstick to judge
singing ability, then why are we all here, discussing HFM songs and
singers? We could have simple concluded, in one or two posts, that
every Bade Ghulam Ali or DV Paluskar or Kishori Amonkar is better than
every Rafi or KK or Lata and be done with it. Pl. don't be ridiculous
for the sake of it.
Since casting pearls beore a swine is a complete waste of time and,
judging from your previous posts, I do not expect to see any further
musical analysis on the topic (except citing other ppl's
comments/flames which prove nothing), I suggest we draw the line on
this "was KK a good singer or not?" debate here and now. Besides, I'm
sure enough would have already been written on the subject and
RMIM-ers would have grown sick of it, by now.
Anindya
Anindya
I didn't assume anything, "sbose". My comment was generic, directed
towards the ubiquitous "greatest flamer" of the concerned article.
Could hve been anybody. Like I said, it doesn't matter to me in the
least where Ashok, or anyone for that matter, hails from. This is the
only musical forum I've seen (and I've seen quite a few, believe me)
where ppl seem to be more concerned with ascribing parochial motives
to musical likes and dislikes. I'm sure if I had logged in under a
pseudonym...the responses to my comments from the concerned ppl would
have been quite different. :)
Anindya
rk_u...@yahoo.com
> I have never said anything about Gaana na aaya being a great
> song/singing. Pl. don't attribute other ppl's comments to me to suit
> your convenience.
neither was I referring to it. I was referring to that Satyam composed song.
>
> it reflects so poorly about
> > ur musical sense. Just like those panchamites in yahoo egroup who claim
> > that KK's rendition of Neele Neele Ambar(kalakaar) is great. YUCK.
> >
>
> exactly how differently (or better) do you think a Rafi or Talat would
> have rendered that song (remember: THAT particular song..pl. do not
> bring in cliches like "could KK have sung Madhuban me raadhika?)? Can
> you explain logically. with reference to music?
Now I have to rate KKs rendition of a song based on *speculation* on
how others would have sung it. He did a very poor job in that song
and this I can deduce even without speculating how Rafi would have sung
that song.
How about this:-
Myself: Shahrukh khan did a bad job in xyz film
Shahrukh fan: Exactly how do u think Uttam Kumar or Soumitra Chatterjee
would have acted it better.
> the above comment sums up YOUR musical understanding (or lack of it),
> more than anything else. The hilarity of it is too much for me to even
> attempt a reply. But if film songs are hardly a yardstick to judge
> singing ability, then why are we all here, discussing HFM songs and
> singers?
Oh great. This KK fan now thinks that KK defined HFM music.
I am reading RMIM since 1996 and have read many interesting threads
which had nothing to do with KK.
> We could have simple concluded, in one or two posts, that
> every Bade Ghulam Ali or DV Paluskar or Kishori Amonkar is better than
> every Rafi or KK or Lata and be done with it.
Who is talking about Bade Ghulam Ali. Even within film play back singers,
if Lata gets a 10 on a scale of 10, I would, with great generosity give
KK a rating of 4.
Before u start spewing more nonsense, lemme clarify. KK was a good singer.
I enjoy his good songs. He had GOD gifted voice. Could sing
songs with emotion. But when it comes to ability in notes he was quite
limited.
I can not say any of his songs as 'awesome' singing. I would rather use that
adjective for songs of Anuradha(Balraj Sahni-Leela Naidu) sung by Lata.
or Jyoti Kalash Chalke (Babhee kee chudiyan).
This is what I meant by saying "u should have outgrown KK songs by now".
I however agree with you that what music u should appreciate is ur
prerogative.
RK-
Gautam Choudhury
Until Ketan sort of took us back to Salilda. I always found that Salilda
composed music which ended up as a song sometimes or a prelude sometimes or
an interlude sometimes. He was also one of the very few who composed the
background music of several films. If you listen to some of those background
music you may find traces of familiar portions which could have been a song.
He probably never planned to make a song out of it but then again he
probably just liked that bit and created a song. Someone mentioned 'Baag
mein'. It must have been one of his most favourite 'music'. It has appeared
in Chemmeen, Chand aur Suraj and in some other sound tracks.
To answer Ketan - there are a large number of songs in Hindi which are
original and they have never been made into Bengali or Tamil or Malayalam. I
can think of songs of Amaanat, Parivaar etc. Same thing applies to his
Bengali songs. There are also original Malayalam songs which do not have any
Hindi or Bengali or any other versions. If you really want to know go
through my website (salilda.com) and check all the song cross-refences.
To me all this is statistics. I think Salilda was the only composer who
allowed people from various parts of India to enjoy the same melody. I was
thrilled to hear people in Kerala singing some of my favourite Bengali songs
of Salilda in Malayalam and some of them even thought that Salil was a
Malayalee ! They love him as much as I do or even more. Salilda experimented
with all forms of music - from western classical , western folk, Indian
folk, Indian classical music etc. He composed songs in at least 10 Indian
languages. I agree that sometimes he used one of his existing compositions
and with different orchestration and arrangement he created another
version of it in another language. Is that wrong ? After all they were his
own compositions and if we all like the songs is it worth going on about it
?
Gautam
Ket...@att.net> wrote in message news:a6008...@drn.newsguy.com...
Ashok
>
>Dear RK:
>
>When taking about a complete eco-system, you should not be surprised that
>there is significant amount of recycling.
>
>On the other hand, if you have only been exposed to forests which are part
>of a much larger eco-system, you would only see song currents flowing from
>one forest to another, and cycles may come as a shock.
>
>Pradeep
>P.S.
>'bang' se doobo is bong ke saath, bang ki tarang meiN:
>
>panjab sindh gujrat maratha, dravid utkal bang
>vindhya himachal yamuna ganga, uchhval jaladhi tarang
"uchhval"? Looks like the guy was always unsure whether it
was "uchchhala" or "ujvala" and chose a combintation of the two!
Ashok
Anindya
> "Anindya" <andy...@hotmail.com> wrote
> > I have never said anything about Gaana na aaya being a great
> > song/singing. Pl. don't attribute other ppl's comments to me to suit
> > your convenience.
>
> neither was I referring to it. I was referring to that Satyam composed song.
its quite clear that once again you have based your comment on
"speculation" and have no clue on what I am talking about, or are just
acting dumb ("being yourself"?)
> > it reflects so poorly about
> > > ur musical sense. Just like those panchamites in yahoo egroup who claim
> > > that KK's rendition of Neele Neele Ambar(kalakaar) is great. YUCK.
> > >
> >
> > exactly how differently (or better) do you think a Rafi or Talat would
> > have rendered that song (remember: THAT particular song..pl. do not
> > bring in cliches like "could KK have sung Madhuban me raadhika?)? Can
> > you explain logically. with reference to music?
>
> Now I have to rate KKs rendition of a song based on *speculation* on
> how others would have sung it. He did a very poor job in that song
> and this I can deduce even without speculating how Rafi would have sung
> that song.
<decoded>: I don't have a clue yaar(since I don't have any
mind/understanding of my own), but I just thought I'm supposed to say
these things in order to get into the good books of the "connoisseurs"
How about this:-
>
>
> > the above comment sums up YOUR musical understanding (or lack of it),
> > more than anything else. The hilarity of it is too much for me to even
> > attempt a reply. But if film songs are hardly a yardstick to judge
> > singing ability, then why are we all here, discussing HFM songs and
> > singers?
>
> Oh great. This KK fan now thinks that KK defined HFM music.
wow...amazing deduction. When we are caught on the wrong foot (which
is: all the time) try to bullshit and get out, even if it sounds
ridiculous.
> I am reading RMIM since 1996 and have read many interesting threads
> which had nothing to do with KK.
so? how does that contracdict my comment on HFM music? Also, it will
come as a terrible surprise to you, there exists a vast world of music
lovers ("connoisseurs", if you prefer big words) outside RMIM, and, if
I am not grossly mistaken, it existed prior to 1996 too.
> We could have simple concluded, in one or two posts, that
> > every Bade Ghulam Ali or DV Paluskar or Kishori Amonkar is better than
> > every Rafi or KK or Lata and be done with it.
>
> Who is talking about Bade Ghulam Ali. Even within film play back singers,
> if Lata gets a 10 on a scale of 10, I would, with great generosity give
> KK a rating of 4.
(you + plus a few others) <divided by> (the music world at large) is
still a pathetic sample size.
Before u start spewing more nonsense, lemme clarify. KK was a good
singer.
oh THANK YOU, sir! that's really kind of you. The world was waiting
for PRECISELY this "clarification" from a REAL connoisseur (see, I've
learnt big words, too :)). NOW they can sleep happy.
> I enjoy his good songs. He had GOD gifted voice. Could sing
> songs with emotion. But when it comes to ability in notes he was quite
> limited.
ability in notes? will you define that (if you can), please? Beethoven
was stone deaf: so do we take it he was stone deaf, too (and therefore
had no "ability in notes"?)? Closer to home, Madan Mohan and OPN,
among others, were largely self-taught musicians. Of the Beatles,
Lennon was far less tech- (read: note) savvy than McCartney. So what
do we deduce from all this?
> I can not say any of his songs as 'awesome' singing. I would rather use that
> adjective for songs of Anuradha(Balraj Sahni-Leela Naidu) sung by Lata.
why? because they are tuned by Ravishankar and are
Classical-based...and dropping names like "Anuradha", "Tilak Shyam"
etc. at parties gets you admiring glances?
> This is what I meant by saying "u should have outgrown KK songs by now".
> I however agree with you that what music u should appreciate is ur
> prerogative.
EXACTLY. So, shall we leave it at that, for the time being?
Anindya
rk_u...@yahoo.com
> (you + plus a few others) <divided by> (the music world at large) is
> still a pathetic sample size.
since when verity has anything to do with the number of people
who profess it. At one time how many people believed that earth
was not flat.
> why? because they are tuned by Ravishankar and are
> Classical-based...and dropping names like "Anuradha", "Tilak Shyam"
> etc. at parties gets you admiring glances?
Admiring glances?? From whom?? KK fans- who think he sang "main
hoon jhum jhum " excellently. No thanks. It is worthless to me.
> EXACTLY. So, shall we leave it at that, for the time being?
Sure.
RK-
Pradeep Dubey
Thanks a lot ... for explaining the confusion!
The Guy
P.S. Also, is it 'ujvala' or 'ujjvala'?
>
> Ashok
SKalra902
...snipped...
>
>Admiring glances?? From whom?? KK fans- who think he sang "main
>hoon jhum jhum " excellently. No thanks. It is worthless to me.
All the more reason for you to accept "To each his own". :-)
Happy listenings.
Satish Kalra
ajit
> Who is talking about Bade Ghulam Ali. Even within film play back singers,
> if Lata gets a 10 on a scale of 10, I would, with great generosity give
> KK a rating of 4.
I guess if we are trying to compare KK with other singers, it would be
wise to stick to male singers only. So Lata and Asha are out of this.
Better refer to Mohammed Rafi, Talat Mahmood or Hemant Kumar et al. Or
maybe SPB, KJY.
Well....I personally do believe Kishore is a highly over-rated artist
(esp. his output 70s onwards).IMO of course. But he did do quite a
*fantastic* job in songs like "koi hota jisko apna.." or "guzar jayein
din din din...". And these are not really "easy" songs. I really love
Kishore's songs for Hemant Kumar ... esp. "hawaon pe likh do hawaon ke
naam", "yeh shaam kuchh ajeeb thee". Kishore sounds exceptionally
refined in these songs. I miss that "refinement" in his singing in
many songs, but I find it in these. In fact the above-mentioned songs
rank as some of my favourites. And I am still looking for those 3
Bengali songs which Mr. Anindya has suggested to me.
> But when it comes to ability in notes he was quite
> limited.
If I **may** ask you, could you please clarify your point regrading
"ability in notes".
> I can not say any of his songs as 'awesome' singing. I would rather use that
> adjective for songs of Anuradha(Balraj Sahni-Leela Naidu) sung by Lata.
> or Jyoti Kalash Chalke (Babhee kee chudiyan).
Here again I guess we should stick to male singers - but I get your
point - and thats about KKs scanty repertoire as far as semiclassical
songs as concerned.
Thanks a lot,
Ajit
Anindya
> He probably never planned to make a song out of it but then again he
> probably just liked that bit and created a song. Someone mentioned 'Baag
> mein'. It must have been one of his most favourite 'music'. It has appeared
> in Chemmeen, Chand aur Suraj and in some other sound tracks.
and as part of the hauntingly beautiful interlude of "Saathi re, tujh
bin jiyaa udaas re (Poonam ki Raat)".
To answer Ketan - there are a large number of songs in Hindi which are
> original and they have never been made into Bengali or Tamil or Malayalam. I
> can think of songs of Amaanat, Parivaar etc.
and Half Ticket, among others
Same thing applies to his
> Bengali songs. There are also original Malayalam songs which do not have any
> Hindi or Bengali or any other versions.
mostly, and its quite logical too, I guess, the path was Bengali =>
Hindi/other languages.
On rare occasions, however, Salil tried to revive the magic of an old
Hindi classic by recylcing it into Bengali several years (sometimes,
decades!) after the original. For instance:
Chhota sa ghar hoga (Naukri-KK) => the 1980s kiddies song, Hobuchandra
raaja Gobuchandra montri by Antara. This must surely qualify for the
longest time gap between the original and the translation!
Guzar jaaye din (Annadata-KK) => Chole je jaaye din, sung by some
obscure female singer who, IMHO, couldnt' capture the essence of the
song at all. We could have been better off without this version.
Anindya
Anindya
> He probably never planned to make a song out of it but then again he
> probably just liked that bit and created a song. Someone mentioned 'Baag
> mein'. It must have been one of his most favourite 'music'. It has appeared
> in Chemmeen, Chand aur Suraj and in some other sound tracks.
and also as part of the haunting interlude of "saathi re, tujh bin
jiyaa udaas re (Poonam ki Raat)".
To answer Ketan - there are a large number of songs in Hindi which are
> original and they have never been made into Bengali or Tamil or Malayalam. I
> can think of songs of Amaanat, Parivaar etc.
one more...Half Ticket.
I agree that sometimes he used one of his existing compositions
> and with different orchestration and arrangement he created another
> version of it in another language.
mostly, and I suppose its logical, too, the flow was Bengali =>
Hindi/other languages.
However, on rare occasions, he tried to revive an old Hindi classic by
recycling it into Bengali several years (sometimes, decades) after the
original. For instance:
Chhota sa ghar hoga (Naukri-KK) => the 1980s kiddies' song
"Hobuchawndro Raaja Gobuchawndro montri" by Antara. This will surely
qualify for the logest time gap between the original and the
translation!
Guzar jaaye din (Annadaata - KK) => Choley je jaaye din, by an obscure
female singer whose deadpan style, IMHO, couldn't capture the essence
of the song at all. We would have been happier off without this
version.
Anindya
rk_u...@yahoo.com
"ajit" <ajit...@hotmail.com> wrote :-
> I guess if we are trying to compare KK with other singers, it would be
> wise to stick to male singers only. So Lata and Asha are out of this.
> Better refer to Mohammed Rafi, Talat Mahmood or Hemant Kumar et al. Or
> maybe SPB, KJY.
may I ask why a male singer can not be compared to female singer.
Do u believe that we can not compare the acting of hero with heroine
of a film.
> But he did do quite a
> *fantastic* job in songs like "koi hota jisko apna.." or "guzar jayein
> din din din...". And these are not really "easy" songs.
of course. C'mon he was not a bad singer by any means.
Do you know that Kishore had to take 18 retakes to finish "guzar jaye
din ...". Yup. Our man beat Mohd Gazni in # of attempts :-)
As u said, this song is really tough, specially the interludes.
I had great respect for KK for singing that song. I use to admire
him for singing that song despite no training in music.
But shortly after Salil C death in Aug 1995, I read an article about
him in TOI where it was mentioned that KK struggled like anything
to sing this song and could complete only in the 18th attempt. 18!!!!
Somehow after that, I never respected him for that song. Everytime
I listen to that song, it brings out a wry smile on my face. 18!!!
cheers.
RK-
yeskay
This is like not appreciating a product, if you come to know
that they had fixed/detected innumerable bugs during system testing of
the product.
Ritu
> "ajit" <ajit...@hotmail.com> wrote :-
>
> > I guess if we are trying to compare KK with other singers, it would be
> > wise to stick to male singers only. So Lata and Asha are out of this.
> > Better refer to Mohammed Rafi, Talat Mahmood or Hemant Kumar et al. Or
> > maybe SPB, KJY.
>
> may I ask why a male singer can not be compared to female singer.
> Do u believe that we can not compare the acting of hero with heroine
> of a film.
That was a wierd statement to make. Obviously you cannot compare a
male and female and singer from a technical viewpoint. You might
compare their emoting skills in a song. But if you talk about
classical singing abilities then the basic universe for both is
different. The flavour is different. Comparing Kishore and Lata would
be like comparing the Tandoori Chicken with Tiramisu.
Between actors you are basically making comparisons on emoting skills.
But if you compare say Amitabh bachchan's dialogue delivery and voice
modulation with Meena Kumari voice then it's again apples and oranges.
By the way, I must add that I agree with a lot of your view points on
Kishore and the part of outgrowing Kishore( I started with that kind
of music but outgrew most of it after a while) but your arguments lack
any kind of substance. It sometimes **is** a good idea to back your
opinions with some analysis.
-Ritu
rk_u...@yahoo.com
"yeskay" <new_jee...@yahooNOSPAM.com> wrote
> This is like not appreciating a product, if you come to know
> that they had fixed/detected innumerable bugs during system testing of
> the product.
ROTFL.
I didn't say that I don't like the song. I said this:-
>Somehow after that, I never respected him for that song.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
RK-
rk_u...@yahoo.com
"Ritu" <rc0...@rediffmail.com> wrote
> That was a wierd statement to make. Obviously you cannot compare a
> male and female and singer from a technical viewpoint.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Does this statement apply only when comparing KK with Lata
or does it apply in KK vs Alka Yagnik comparison also :-)
I have told many times that KK was no where near Lata and
KK fans have always countered it with u-cannot-compare-a-female-
with-a-male-singer logic. Curiously they never use this
logic when I say KK was any day better than a singer like
Alka Yagnik or Sulkashna Pandit.
RK-
Pradeep Dubey
RK:
You being an RMIM veteran should remember such threads from the past,
and not have raised this issue ...
I assume you have lost respect for Rafi also after knowing how many
attempts he made for 'tasveer teri dil mein' and still didn't get it
right (in spite of all that schooling that KK is accused of not going
through), unlike KK. Listen to Lata's bengali solo of 'tasveer teri'
and you would know how handicapped she felt with Rafi in the hindi
version.
Regarding: outgrowing KK songs or any other for that matter ...
There is a flawed assumption here of a hierarchy. Of course, our
interests change as we grwo, but are they changing towards necessarily
'better' or 'inherently more valuable' things? Perhaps not. I used to
love Rafi and then Ghazals, and didn't think much of folksy-tribal
stuff. Now it's the other way round. I would need to be paid to listen
to ghazals now, and would pay to listen to folks from all around the
globe. Is one better than the other??
Pradeep
P.S. Yes, KK had a 'scanty' repertoire of Scantly-Clad songs :-)
Yes, that's how any classical singer would define HFM semi-classical
stuff.
As Satish ji would say, classical ke hamaam meiN, sabhi HFM songs
nange haiN :-)
> cheers.
>
> RK-
rk_u...@yahoo.com
"Pradeep Dubey" <pradeep...@yahoo.com> wrote
> RK:
> You being an RMIM veteran should remember such threads from the past,
> and not have raised this issue ...
> I assume you have lost respect for Rafi also after knowing how many
> attempts he made for 'tasveer teri dil mein' and still didn't get it
> right (in spite of all that schooling that KK is accused of not going
> through), unlike KK. Listen to Lata's bengali solo of 'tasveer teri'
> and you would know how handicapped she felt with Rafi in the hindi
> version.
I am well aware of Rafi 11 attempts. I believe Rafi found it too
hard the lines "phir tujhe sang leke naye naye rang leke".
Salilda had to finally OK the 11th attempt bcos Lata was losing
patience.
And yes Lata is clearly much better than Rafi. What makes u think
that I rate Rafi as highly as Lata.
Rafi was better than Kishore and that is hardly much saying :-)
Another song where Rafi suffered in comparison was the duet
with Asha "main pyaar ka raahi hoon teri jhulfo mein". Asha
simply eat him.
RK-
Ket...@att.net
says...
>
>
>"Pradeep Dubey" <pradeep...@yahoo.com> wrote
>
>> RK:
>> You being an RMIM veteran should remember such threads from the past,
>> and not have raised this issue ...
What are you saying Pradeep? Ravi and not raise threads from the past? And then
you expect him to write something honestly, accurately and correctly? No way.
Ravi, FYI, SalilC died in Sept 1995, not Aug. Secondly, that article only said
that the song was recorded after 18 takes. There is no mention in it that "KK
struggled like anything and took 18 takes to complete it", or whether it was
SalilC who demanded 18 takes. This is entirely a figment of your imagination. I
have commented on this issue when you attempted to subvert the truth in the
past. If you look thru the archives, you will see a post by me that says "that
it could have been a musician who was not able to keep track and many other
reasons on why a song could have taken 18 takes". Nice of you though to once
again, lie thru your teeth, to (mis)represent what you see fit.
>I am well aware of Rafi 11 attempts. I believe Rafi found it too
12 I believe.
>Rafi was better than Kishore and that is hardly much saying :-)
By about 6 takes..that's all :)
>Another song where Rafi suffered in comparison was the duet
>with Asha "main pyaar ka raahi hoon teri jhulfo mein". Asha
>simply eat him.
Hmmm...did she swallow him whole or roast him over a slow fire first?
The next time you are in a rush to defame and knock down people with your
untruths, it would be nice if you did it on a full stomach.
rk_u...@yahoo.com
<Ket...@att.net> wrote:-
> There is no mention in it that "KK
> struggled like anything and took 18 takes to complete it", or whether it
was
> SalilC who demanded 18 takes. This is entirely a figment of your
imagination. I
> have commented on this issue when you attempted to subvert the truth in
the
> past. If you look thru the archives, you will see a post by me that says
"that
> it could have been a musician who was not able to keep track and many
other
> reasons on why a song could have taken 18 takes".
Can u come up with a better excuse please.
To me that song exposed the aukat of KK rather well. One difficult
song, change of scale and all that. Psssssssssssss. Our man had to
take 18 retakes. Too much of a coincidence that 18 retakes had to
happen in one of his most difficult song he ever sang, if not
the most difficult.
>If you look thru the archives, you will see a post by me that says "that
>it could have been a musician who was not able to keep track and many other
>reasons on why a song could have taken 18 takes".
Could have been anything. Some musician breaking wind all
the time after excessive consumption of beans :-)
You can *delude* that 18 retakes had nothing to do with KK.
I have a fair idea of who the culprit was.
have a nice weekend.
RK-
P Dasgupta
> On rare occasions, however, Salil tried to revive the magic of an old
> Hindi classic by recylcing it into Bengali several years (sometimes,
> decades!) after the original. For instance:
>
> Chhota sa ghar hoga (Naukri-KK) => the 1980s kiddies song, Hobuchandra
> raaja Gobuchandra montri by Antara. This must surely qualify for the
> longest time gap between the original and the translation!
Actually, there is an earlier Bengali version of "chhota sa ghar" that
goes...
"aay re sabaai biij buni e maaTir naram dhaane
brishTi jharaar din elo re bharaa shraabone
aa aa aa aaye re, aa aa aaye re(2 more times)"
It is sung by Gourikedar Bhattacharya and possibly recorded sometime
in the mid 50s. However, I am not sure if SalilC is the
MD of this song, because it is not listed on Gautam-da's
World of SalilC Website and Gautam-da has done exhaustive
research on SalilC. (AIR Calcutta A, does/did not announce
stats of songs, only the singer.) The tune of the first stanza
is identical to "chhoTa sa ghar" and the antaras, although not
identical, follow the broad structure of the Hindi version's
antaras.
-Prithviraj
ajit
> <rk_u...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<a6a6cf$coaen$1...@ID-75254.news.dfncis.de>...
> > "ajit" <ajit...@hotmail.com> wrote :-
> >
> > > I guess if we are trying to compare KK with other singers, it would be
> > > wise to stick to male singers only. So Lata and Asha are out of this.
> > > Better refer to Mohammed Rafi, Talat Mahmood or Hemant Kumar et al. Or
> > > maybe SPB, KJY.
> >
> > may I ask why a male singer can not be compared to female singer.
> > Do u believe that we can not compare the acting of hero with heroine
> > of a film.
>
> That was a wierd statement to make. Obviously you cannot compare a
> male and female and singer from a technical viewpoint. You might
> compare their emoting skills in a song.
Mr Ravi Krishna, that was the point i was trying to make. Basically
comparing a male and female singer qualitatively is something like
comparing the tennis skills of Borris Becker and Steffi Graf.
BTW - just one more thing - and it would be my request to you not to
take it personally. Firstly you mentioned that a connoisseur of good
music should have outgrown KK's songs. Then in the next post you do
say that KK's singing/voice was GREAT, that he did very well in "guzar
jaayein din din din" and "koi hota...". How can (or rather why SHOULD)
one "outgrow" KKs singing if KK's voice was/is great? I think this is
a contradicition but I might have missed something.
Also, u did say about KK's poor ability in "notes". Could u elaborate
further on this point?
Thanks,
Ajit
ajit
> Yes, that's how any classical singer would define HFM semi-classical
> stuff.
> As Satish ji would say, classical ke hamaam meiN, sabhi HFM songs
> nange haiN :-)
Pradeep Dubey, well my only point was that Rafi and Manna Dey have
sung quite a few great semiclassical songs, which KK hasn't. What a
classical maestro thinks of HFM semiclassical songs is really not the
point - we ARE talking of the ability to sing semiclassical FILM songs
only. And this perhaps wasn't KK's strong point. I am not trying to
say that all this makes him a bad/mediocre singer at all. Just that he
doesnt have too many songs that I really like to listen to.
Ket...@att.net
says...
>imagination. I
>> have commented on this issue when you attempted to subvert the truth in
>the
>> past. If you look thru the archives, you will see a post by me that says
>"that
>> it could have been a musician who was not able to keep track and many
>other
>> reasons on why a song could have taken 18 takes".
>
>Can u come up with a better excuse please.
Can you atleast attempt to write something honestly sometime, without twisting
facts to serve your needs?
>You can *delude* that 18 retakes had nothing to do with KK.
I never said that the 18 retakes were not due to KK. They might very well have
been due to him. However all that we can see is that you are once again, filling
in blanks with your own words, when there aren't any blanks.
Ketan
rk_u...@yahoo.com
> Mr Ravi Krishna, that was the point i was trying to make. Basically
No need to call me so formally.RK is fine.
> comparing a male and female singer qualitatively is something like
> comparing the tennis skills of Borris Becker and Steffi Graf.
Yeah right.
How about this.
Comparing male cook with female cook is like comparing Becker with Graf.
Comparing male writer with female writer is like ...
Comparing male Oracle DBA with female Oracle DBA is like ..
It is so easy to divide this world as male world and female world.
>
>
> BTW - just one more thing - and it would be my request to you not to
> take it personally. Firstly you mentioned that a connoisseur of good
> music should have outgrown KK's songs. Then in the next post you do
> say that KK's singing/voice was GREAT, that he did very well in "guzar
> jaayein din din din" and "koi hota...". How can (or rather why SHOULD)
> one "outgrow" KKs singing if KK's voice was/is great? I think this is
> a contradicition but I might have missed something.
Yes u missed big time.
By outgrown KK songs I just meant I no longer have no passion for it.
I don't analyze his singing seriously. It's not worth it. And I don't listen
to it often.
That doesn't prevent me from enjoying his good songs when I hear them
occasionally in party or friend's place. C'mon it is not as if once I
decide that I have outgrown KK songs, I should never ever listen to it
again.
Sometimes don't we enjoy cartoon movies with our kids.
cheers.
RK-
Anindya
> that I rate Rafi as highly as Lata.
>
> Rafi was better than Kishore and that is hardly much saying :-)
ok, so acc. to you, among male HFM singers, both Rafi and KK were
lousy. Just for academic interest, may I ask: who are those fortunate
few who meet the coveted "RK seal of approval"?
Anindya
ajit
> By outgrown KK songs I just meant I no longer have no passion for it.
> I don't analyze his singing seriously. It's not worth it. And I don't listen
> to it often.
> That doesn't prevent me from enjoying his good songs when I hear them
> occasionally in party or friend's place. C'mon it is not as if once I
> decide that I have outgrown KK songs, I should never ever listen to it
> again.
RK - fine, thanks.
> Sometimes don't we enjoy cartoon movies with our kids.
>
No I have never enjoyed cartoon movies with my kids - never got the chance yet :)
Thanks,
Ajit
rk_u...@yahoo.com
"Anindya" <andy...@hotmail.com> wrote :-
> ok, so acc. to you, among male HFM singers, both Rafi and KK were
> lousy.
Congrats for proving that, besided musical test, u have failed
in reading test too :-)
I didn't rate even KK as lousy, what to say of Rafi. Just bcos
I don't call him awesome, doesn't mean that I rate him lousy.
> Just for academic interest, may I ask: who are those fortunate
> few who meet the coveted "RK seal of approval"?
Why should it interest you what I think. After all what do I
know about music. Remember my comments on KishorDa.
Anyhow just to satiate ur curiosity, I consider following
singers as good:-
Hemant Kumar
Anoop Ghosal.
Manna Dey
Amit Kumar (DA KING)
Kumar Sanu
Indrani Mukherjee.
Babul Supriyo
Happy?
RK- [ time to stock up fridge with fish/rasgulla ]
SKalra902
...snipped...
>Yeah right.
>How about this.
>Comparing male cook with female cook is like comparing Becker with Graf.
Not a comparison of equal skills as in cooking. That's why we cannot compare
apples to oranges, I guess. :-)
Happy listenings.
Satish Kalra
ajit
> Anyhow just to satiate ur curiosity, I consider following
> singers as good:-
> Indrani Mukherjee.
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I think its Chandrani Mukherjee, but please correct me if I am wrong.
And she was IMO okay - thats it.
Thanks,
Ajit
ajit
> > comparing a male and female singer qualitatively is something like
> > comparing the tennis skills of Borris Becker and Steffi Graf.
>
> Yeah right.
> How about this.
> Comparing male cook with female cook is like comparing Becker with Graf.
> Comparing male writer with female writer is like ...
> Comparing male Oracle DBA with female Oracle DBA is like ..
>
> It is so easy to divide this world as male world and female world.
>
BTW - i forgot to mention to you that you really haven't got my point
about why male and female singers should not be compared. So lets
leave it :-)
Anindya
another brilliant, informative, powerful, intellegent and objective
post. I wish other RMIM-ers could write like you! :)
RK- [ time to stock up fridge with fish/rasgulla ]
where will you keep your feeding bottles, then? :)
Anindya
rk_u...@yahoo.com
"Anindya" <andy...@hotmail.com> wrote
> another brilliant, informative, powerful, intellegent and objective
> post. I wish other RMIM-ers could write like you! :)
"shooo" is the only language street dog understands.
So I have no other option but to explain it to you in
that language.
What is the point in explaining to you. You don't even
read properly. You even concluded that I called Rafi/KK as
a lousy singer.
thanks for reading.
RK-
rk_u...@yahoo.com
"ajit" <ajit...@hotmail.com> wrote
> BTW - i forgot to mention to you that you really haven't got my point
> about why male and female singers should not be compared. So lets
> leave it :-)
BTW I forgot to mention that I got your point and have concluded that
there is no merit in it. Hence not worth responding.
cheers.
RK-
Ket...@att.net
says...
>"shooo" is the only language street dog understands.
>So I have no other option but to explain it to you in
>that language.
>
>What is the point in explaining to you. You don't even
>read properly. You even concluded that I called Rafi/KK as
>a lousy singer.
ROTFL,
Though I have never seen you in conversation with a member of the canine
species(fascinating though, the picture that comes to mind), I can assure you
that most RMIMers have tried all the "shoo", "chappal", "juute", dialogues with
you that they could think of.
Now you know how we feel..explaining things to you again and again and again and
again, especially given your dyslexic ability to read, write and comprehend.
Ketan
rk_u...@yahoo.com
> ROTFL,
> Though I have never seen you in conversation with a member of the canine
> species(fascinating though, the picture that comes to mind), I can assure
you
> that most RMIMers have tried all the "shoo", "chappal", "juute", dialogues
with
> you that they could think of.
>
> Now you know how we feel..explaining things to you again and again and
again and
> again, especially given your dyslexic ability to read, write and
comprehend.
One street dog jumping in to defend another street dog (andy).
So typical of dogs.
YAWN ....
RK-
Anindya
RK, you are stinking again. It's diaper change time.
Anindya
rk_u...@yahoo.com
Anindya
> > RK, you are stinking again. It's diaper change time.
>
> Shoo....
>
> RK-
> PS: nothing stinks more than fish.
yeah, looks like the one you had this morning *did* stink a lot. Tip:
Civilized ppl would *cook* them b4 eating (with the possible exception
of Sushi, which still requires adequate garnishing to ward off the
stink)...
or are you still in search of your identity, and are therefore sore
with the whole world? As solace, let me tell you, don't be so
disheartened (besides, it's not your fault :)), you are in pretty good
company...ummm...lets see....Churchill....Mahesh Bhatt.....Rekha.....
Anindya
rk_u...@yahoo.com
> yeah, looks like the one you had this morning *did* stink a lot. Tip:
> Civilized ppl would *cook* them b4 eating (with the possible exception
> of Sushi, which still requires adequate garnishing to ward off the
> stink)...
and what about the stink before cooking, specially in the fish-market.
But to be honest, I feel the same stench when I read ur post.
RK-
Ket...@att.net
andy...@hotmail.com says...
Dude...knock it off will ya. All this talk of Sushi, Identity, Rekha etc is way
over his knowledge level and ability to understand.
RK's is a very simplistic(euphemism intended) mind. His behaviour would make
Pavlov slobber. Anytime someone writes something good about say RD/KK etc, he
immediately jumps up and down barking nonsense. Funnily, he calls us dogs.
Ketan
rk_u...@yahoo.com
> Dude...knock it off will ya.
As expected another kutta has arrived to defend apni galli ka kutta.
RK-
PS: It is galli ka kutta's who are like Mahesh Bhatt.
Pestonji
<Ket...@att.net> wrote in message news:a6l4e...@drn.newsguy.com...
Dogs do not bark unless they see a thief ;-)
Anindya
told you, check your diapers first...*that's* where it's coming from.
give up, man (hey, I just elevated you from "indeterminate" :))..you
won't go much further with that 10-word repertoire and posts
completely devoid of any content.
Anindya
P.S: I can see you have been deliberately ignoring the "identity
crisis" question in my post...thereby confirming my hunch :)
rk_u...@yahoo.com
"Anindya" <andy...@hotmail.com> wrote
> P.S: I can see you have been deliberately ignoring the "identity
> crisis" question in my post...thereby confirming my hunch :)
if a gaali ka kutta barks at me, prudence calls for ignoring the
kutta.
RK-
Ket...@att.net
>Dogs do not bark unless they see a thief ;-)
Yeah..and guess what RK has been barking for 6+ years now: "RD is a thief".
Thanks for pointing this out.
Proves what I said about him being related to the canine species doesn't it? :)
K
rk_u...@yahoo.com
<Ket...@att.net> wrote :-
> Yeah..and guess what RK has been barking for 6+ years now: "RD is a
thief".
> Thanks for pointing this out.
In other words u are admitting that RDB was a chor. Thanks for admitting.
> Proves what I said about him being related to the canine species doesn't
it? :)
is that the reason why you and Andy gang up together to bark at me.
You see dogs of one illaka do not like dogs from another illaka.
RK-
Ket...@att.net
says...
><Ket...@att.net> wrote :-
>> Yeah..and guess what RK has been barking for 6+ years now: "RD is a
>thief".
>> Thanks for pointing this out.
>
>In other words u are admitting that RDB was a chor. Thanks for admitting.
I am admitting that you bark incessantly because YOU see RD as a thief. If you
see any more linkages where there aren't any, than your deduction skills are
abysmal.
>is that the reason why you and Andy gang up together to bark at me.
>You see dogs of one illaka do not like dogs from another illaka.
LOL...I could point out how you have once again put your foot in your mouth, but
jaane do. I will leave that as homework for you to improve your deducing skills.
Hey Andy, now you know for whom Lata sang "O beta bow wow wow " in Memdidi(in an
attempt to bring this thread back to SalilC).
Which brings me to the question--How many antaras does "Raaton ko jab neend ud
jaaye" from Memdidi have? While watching the song I somehow got the feeling that
in the video, there is a cut someplace where there might have been an additional
stanza. Any info on this?
Ketan
Anindya
it worked!
<sinister laughter>
Anindya
Anindya
> >You see dogs of one illaka do not like dogs from another illaka.
>
> LOL...I could point out how you have once again put your foot in your mouth, but
> jaane do. I will leave that as homework for you to improve your deducing skills.
>
and to improve his literary skills, how about engraving something like
*this* on his collar?:
"I am his Highness' dog at Kew
Pray tell me, sir, whose dog are you?"
Anindya
ajit
by Salil Chaudhary. I had read about it somewhere but I cant find it
now - not even on Gautam Chaudhary's site.
Thanks,
Ajit
rk_u...@yahoo.com
"Anindya" <andy...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f43baef6.02031...@posting.google.com...
Ho Ho Ho.
Looks like mating season has started for Ketan and Andy.
RK-
Anindya
ok...complete this sentence: "reading ALexander Pope to RK is like
___________ "
the best participant wins an exclusive evening with the Tingu Mingu
(and all the other *.ngu s) brothers, during the course of which, they
will answer the eternal question: Kitne *.ngu thhe?
Anindya
Gautam Choudhury
so far. There's one film where there's a Japaneese song. It's the Bengali
Film 'Swarnatrisha'. The Hindi version was 'Aakhiri Badlaa'.
In fact if I remember it right I did mention the fact that there's a
Japaneese song in this film.
I mean the film 'Akhiri Badlaa'.
Gautam
"ajit" <ajit...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c5161e15.02031...@posting.google.com...
surjit singh
> Salil never composed a Japaneese song. At least that's what I have found out
> so far. There's one film where there's a Japaneese song. It's the Bengali
> Film 'Swarnatrisha'. The Hindi version was 'Aakhiri Badlaa'.
> In fact if I remember it right I did mention the fact that there's a
> Japaneese song in this film.
> I mean the film 'Akhiri Badlaa'.
What year was that?
My indexes of HIndi movies from 1931-1999 do not mention it.
May be another name in Hindi?
Gurcharan Sandhu
> "Gautam Choudhury" <gau...@cybercomm.nl> wrote in message news:<wytk8.114$LQ4.11...@bigmama.cybercomm.nl>...
> > Salil never composed a Japaneese song. At least that's what I have found out
> > so far. There's one film where there's a Japaneese song. It's the Bengali
> > Film 'Swarnatrisha'. The Hindi version was 'Aakhiri Badlaa'.
> > In fact if I remember it right I did mention the fact that there's a
> > Japaneese song in this film.
> > I mean the film 'Akhiri Badlaa'.
>
> What year was that?
>
> My indexes of HIndi movies from 1931-1999 do not mention it.
>
> May be another name in Hindi?
>
> > Gautam
'Aakhiri Badlaa' is a 1989 Hindi film with music by Salil.
Gurcharan Sandhu
shu...@gmail.com
> Was watching Anand a short while ago. At one juncture, the background music
> plays the 'koyii hotaa....." mukhadaa tune, down to the last note. Since the
> MD was Salil Chowhdury for both the films, one can safely say that he too used
> the background music from one film for the song compositions of later film(s).
> How frequently, though, is the question.
>
> Any other instances? Someone?
> Happy listenings.
>
> Satish Kalra
In Bavare Nain- (MD.Roshan) full song "kahan tak hum uthaye gam" (arzoo- Anil Biswas)is played in background on instruments. One instance one Md uses other Md's song.