do lafzo ki hai
V S Rawat
1. the language,
2. the words
3. and the literal meaning of words.
sprinkled all over in this song of The great gambler
"amore nio......"
he was "apane pyaar ko yaad kar rahaa thaa aur kah rahaa
thaa". 'do lafzo.n kii hai... " was the concept.
-----------------
Was it RDB who introduced "full sentences" of "non-english"
"foreign languages" first time with this hindi film song?
Which were such songs earlier to it.
An occassional sayonaaraa etc repeated ad infitum in a song
will not count.
-Rawat
Surjit Singh
> what was
> 1. the language,
> 2. the words
> 3. and the literal meaning of words.
> sprinkled all over in this song of The great gambler
>
> "amore nio......"
>
> he was "apane pyaar ko yaad kar rahaa thaa aur kah rahaa
> thaa". 'do lafzo.n kii hai... " was the concept.
> -----------------
>
> Was it RDB who introduced "full sentences" of "non-english"
> "foreign languages" first time with this hindi film song?
NO.
>
> Which were such songs earlier to it.
>
> An occassional sayonaaraa etc repeated ad infitum in a song
> will not count.
>
> -Rawat
>
--
Surjit Singh, a diehard movie fan(atic), period.
http://hindi-movies-songs.com/index.html
@bollyvista.com Amit Malhotra
wrote:
>what was
>1. the language,
Italian
>2. the words
I'm looking for someone who speaks italian here to see if they can
pick up the words
>3. and the literal meaning of words.
>sprinkled all over in this song of The great gambler
>
>"amore nio......"
>
i know that the first two words are "amore mio" which means "my love"
>he was "apane pyaar ko yaad kar rahaa thaa aur kah rahaa
>thaa". 'do lafzo.n kii hai... " was the concept.
>-----------------
>
>Was it RDB who introduced "full sentences" of "non-english"
>"foreign languages" first time with this hindi film song?
>
>Which were such songs earlier to it.
How bout that Shammi Kapoor song in which deutsch is used in the
beginning of the song, I believe it's from An Evening in Paris
Amit
Surjit Singh
V S Rawat wrote:
> what was
> 1. the language,
> 2. the words
> 3. and the literal meaning of words.
> sprinkled all over in this song of The great gambler
>
> "amore nio......"
>
> he was "apane pyaar ko yaad kar rahaa thaa aur kah rahaa
> thaa". 'do lafzo.n kii hai... " was the concept.
> -----------------
>
> Was it RDB who introduced "full sentences" of "non-english"
> "foreign languages" first time with this hindi film song?
There are many earlier songs that are completely in Panjabi. Many
earlier multi-lingual songs have a Panjabi para.
And Panjabi (non-English) [About 60% of its speakers are foreign (in
Pakistan, which is not a part of India)] qualifies according to your
definition.
Of course, if you introduce enough conditions, anything is a first.
That's how the book of world records operates. They find who was famous
last year and create a new category for himer.
So, who played mouth-organ with one finger, the other hand tied behind
his back while standing on one foot on his head? RDBurman, of course!
>
> Which were such songs earlier to it.
>
> An occassional sayonaaraa etc repeated ad infitum in a song
> will not count.
>
> -Rawat
>
--
Surjit Singh, a diehard movie fan(atic), period.
Visit my home page at
http://hindi-movies-songs.com/index.html
pramod
The language is Italian. They are in Venice and the gondolier is
singing a gondolier song. They are famous for it. But I can't vouch
for its authenticity.
Anyway, the character played by Zeenat Aman (I beleive it is she, I
saw this song only in Chhaya Geet 24 years back) doesn't give the
right translation.
The first few verses are:
amore mio
dove sei tu
di sto cercando
ei sole mio
amore mio
dove sei tu
di sto cercando
ei sole mio
And it means:
O my love
Where are you?
I have been searching for you
O my sun!
An Italian would never say: Ei sole mio. Ei is considered very
impolite. A man would never call a woman, let alone his beloved, like
this. It is only possible if he is talking to a woman of low virtue
(which doesn't say than much for the virtue of the man as well!).
The next verses are:
il tempo fallo
prenderlo prenderlo
amore mio
These verses don't make much sense. They sound like written above. And
I am not so sure if it is really fallo. Il Tempo is the time. fallo
means to fail. The time is failing!
Prenederlo means take it!
So I would say it means:
The time is failing us. (The time is passing by. The time is our enemy
and we should depart)
So please take it (My symbol of love, my memento of love).
my love.
As to the question if RDB was the first person to indtroduce
non-english foreign words in Hindi songs, i can only say that it seems
improbable.
many music directors toyed with Western music. Like Salil Choudhary
took the tune for the song from "dil ta.Dap ta.Dap ke kah rahaa hai aa
bhI jaa" from a traditional Polish song. I came upon it quite
accidentally as I was learning German with a group of Polish students
and at a party they started singing this song. But onyl the opening
tune is from the Polish song. The latter aprt is I think is
Salilsahab's own composition. Anyway I think there surely must be some
sprinkling of Russian or Spanish or Portuguese songs in earlier songs
earleir than "do lafzo.n kii hai dil kii kahaanii".
But there are so many wise and more experienced (I mean it, no
cynicism here) writers in this newsgroup. I think they could surely
give us a clue.
Remarks: From the sound of it, it seems the singer of this gondolier
song is not an Italian. It sounds very much like an Indian, trying to
sound very angrez, which is wrong since the words concerned are
Italian.
I will have to look up my records at home who the singer is?
Curious of further responses
Bet regards
Pramod
V S Rawat <vsr...@hclinfinet.com> wrote in message news:<40CEC587...@hclinfinet.com>...
Ashok
>I don't know italian so I really shoulnd't talk
>Amit
When did that stop you?!
Ashok
@bollyvista.com Amit Malhotra
I'll stop the day you stop talking about things that you dont know :)
Amit
P.s. tumhaaraa khoon khoon hai, hamaaraa khoon paani hai?
Surma Bhopali
>
> The language is Italian. They are in Venice and the gondolier is
> singing a gondolier song. They are famous for it. But I can't vouch
> for its authenticity.
>
> Anyway, the character played by Zeenat Aman (I beleive it is she, I
> saw this song only in Chhaya Geet 24 years back) doesn't give the
> right translation.
Thanks for the translation. I am writing next to each line what I hear
in ITRANS in this song. [I know nothing of Italian.]
> The first few verses are:
> amore mio
aa more miio
> dove sei tu
dove saa_ii tuu
> di sto cercando
dis torcha kaa.nDo
> ei sole mio
taa_ii solo mio
>
> An Italian would never say: Ei sole mio. Ei is considered very
> impolite. A man would never call a woman, let alone his beloved, like
> this. It is only possible if he is talking to a woman of low virtue
> (which doesn't say than much for the virtue of the man as well!).
>
> The next verses are:
> il tempo fallo
i tempo vaalaa
> prenderlo prenderlo
pra.ndellaa pra.ndellaa
>
> Remarks: From the sound of it, it seems the singer of this gondolier
> song is not an Italian. It sounds very much like an Indian, trying to
> sound very angrez, which is wrong since the words concerned are
> Italian.
> I will have to look up my records at home who the singer is?
>
Sharad Kumar is credited for the song along with Asha and Amitabh.
V S Rawat
you must be remembering some "tempo waalaa" (cabby driver)
of bhopal :).
-Rawat
V S Rawat
Oh Pramod!
thanks a lot for the detailed thing.
Is there a low size file available somewhere on net for
download? real audio won't do. I need mp3.
I know of a yahoogroup about italian. I had been a member
for a few months when I was interested in the language. If I
find the mp3, I think I will rejoin that, load the file, and
request "REAL ORIGINAL ITALIANO" members to give it a
hearing and describe the words and concept.
That would settle it once for all.
could any RDB fan would like to take pains for all this?
Please load a 250 KB version somewhere.
-Rawat
pramod
these Italian words. I would write it in ITRANS as:
aamore mio dove sei tu di sto cercando
aamore miio
dowe saa_ii (sai like in sai baba) tuu
tii sto cherkaan.do
aai sole miio
il tempo phaalo
pre.nde.rlo, pre.nde.rlo
aai sole miio
You must have noticed now that in my last version I wrote:
di sto cercando. It should really be ti sto cercando.
When Sharad Kumar (Thanks for the info, I forgot to look it up last
night!) sings it sounds like disco cercando. but it should be ti sto.
As to aai sole mio, I have made concession to the singer and written
it as he sings.
The singer also sings Prendelo and not prenderlo. The Italian do
stress on their Rs.
Hope to be of help!
best regards
Pramod
nanhaf...@yahoo.co.in (Surma Bhopali) wrote in message news:<622ae881.04061...@posting.google.com>...
pramod
Well, i heard it last night 4-5 times, to get it right and every time
he sings aai sole mio. And on your request I listened to it today in
the morning as well. No, he didn't improve overnight!
If he wants to sing you are my sun then it should be: tu sei sole mio.
just like dove sei tu? = Where are you?
regards
Pramod
Amit Malhotra <amit @ bollyvista . com> wrote in message news:<05ouc05k6d3kqu5pd...@4ax.com>...
> I don't know italian so I really shoulnd't talk, but i just felt that
> the singer says "ti solo mio" .. which would obviously mean "you are
> my sun".
>
> Maybe you can give it another listening and tell me if I'm right?
>
> Thanks
>
> Amit
> P.s. thanks for the words and translation. I asked everybody in my
> office if anybody knew italian .... but bloody hell, they all speak
> french only :)).
Ashok
says...
Good that you've gotten your humour back!
Don't forget that the major difference
is more important than blood and water:
I am only asking questions, while you
are doing the answering.
Ashok
Surjit Singh
> In article <1gsuc0108g5k32bi8...@4ax.com>, am...@bollyvista.com
> says...
>
>>On 15 Jun 2004 22:01:59 GMT, adhar...@hotmail.com (Ashok) wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article <05ouc05k6d3kqu5pd...@4ax.com>, am...@bollyvista.com
>
> says...
>
>>>>I don't know italian so I really shoulnd't talk
>>>
>>>>Amit
>>>
>>>When did that stop you?!
>>>
>>>Ashok
>>>
>>
>>I'll stop the day you stop talking about things that you dont know :)
>>
>>
>>Amit
>>P.s. tumhaaraa khoon khoon hai, hamaaraa khoon paani hai?
>
Legend has it that a blind person came to hear him speak! Another
favorite line from the same movie,
jab tak vo merii beTii thii ...
>
> Good that you've gotten your humour back!
> Don't forget that the major difference
> is more important than blood and water:
> I am only asking questions, while you
> are doing the answering.
>
> Ashok
>
--
Surma Bhopali
> Surma Bhopali wrote:
> >>
> >>The next verses are:
> >>il tempo fallo
> >
> > i tempo vaalaa
>
> you must be remembering some "tempo waalaa" (cabby driver)
> of bhopal :).
>
deformed and mixed to produce Italian effect.:)
aa more miio (aa mere miyaa.N [though I knew "amore" means "love"
having watched the film "15 Amore"])
di sto cercando (ish.. ##turture## kaa.nDo [kaa.nD in Bangla])
taa_ii solo mio (thy sharam-io)
il tempo fallo (i Tempo vaalaa)
prenderlo prenderlo (praaN dilaa, praaN dilaa)
:) :) :)
Robin
As to "the question if RDB was the first person to introduce
non-english foreign words in Hindi songs, i can only say that it seems
improbable", you would be correct.
I had once compiled a list of Hindi songs with non-English foreign
words. Can't find it now and can't recall all of them except a few -
An Evening In Paris - leja leja mera dil, where Sharda intones in
French.. what was that phrase, I can't recall now...'bene mishe masha
ri..' something like that..
Another is the lovely Lata solo from SJ's Kali Ghata - which has the
phonetic 'la il est belle, la il est belle.. j'laime vouz, j'laime
vouz....'.. have forgotten all my college French vocabulary and
spelling (it was quite marginal anyway).. but the second part of the
phrase means.."I love you, I love you"
Then there was My Love's Rafi solo in which he utters some words in
Swahili.
And of course, if we open it up to Arabic words, there would a huge
number of songs.
Regards..Robin
harv...@hotmail.com (pramod) wrote in message news:<7ad9dfe2.04061...@posting.google.com>...
@bollyvista.com Amit Malhotra
wrote:
I would love to continue our discussion on izaafat and how much I know
or don't know in ottawa :)
Regards,
Amit Malhotra
Ashok
>
>On 16 Jun 2004 23:19:15 GMT, adhareshwar@gNO_SPAMmail.com (Ashok)
>wrote:
>
>>Don't forget that the major difference
>>is more important than blood and water:
>>I am only asking questions, while you
>>are doing the answering.
>>
>>Ashok
>
>I would love to continue our discussion on izaafat and how much I know
>or don't know in ottawa :)
>
>Regards,
>
>Amit Malhotra
Looks like I'll be in trouble both on the drive to
the meet and at the meet itself. :)
Ashok
Robin
Forgot to mention in my earlier post, a very interesting bit of
trivia.
The French ' j'laime vouz', meaning 'I love you'.
Not only did SJ have Lata utter that phrase in the Kali Ghata song but
they also went to the other sister to do the same - Asha Bhosle in
AEIP's beauty of a song - 'Zuby Zuby, j'laime vouz.'
Regards..Robin
harv...@hotmail.com (pramod) wrote in message news:<7ad9dfe2.04061...@posting.google.com>...
Afzal A. Khan
Amit Malhotra wrote:
> >>P.s. tumhaaraa khoon khoon hai, hamaaraa khoon paani hai?
> >
> >Good that you've gotten your humour back!
> >Don't forget that the major difference
> >is more important than blood and water:
> >I am only asking questions, while you
> >are doing the answering.
> >
> >Ashok
>
> I would love to continue our discussion on izaafat and how much I know
> or don't know in ottawa :)
>
> Regards,
>
> Amit Malhotra
Can the roles be reversed, with you doing the
questioning ? And I hope one or two paragraphs would
be devoted to this discussion in the Meet Report.
Afzal
@bollyvista.com Amit Malhotra
me asking questions to a learned man like Ashok .. i'd be intimidated
:-D
but yeah, the report idea is very good... if it's to be reported, then
i'd have to prepare my ammunitions before hand lol
Regards
Amit Malhotra
@bollyvista.com Amit Malhotra
>Pramod,
>
>Forgot to mention in my earlier post, a very interesting bit of
>trivia.
>
>The French ' j'laime vouz', meaning 'I love you'.
>
>Not only did SJ have Lata utter that phrase in the Kali Ghata song but
>they also went to the other sister to do the same - Asha Bhosle in
>AEIP's beauty of a song - 'Zuby Zuby, j'laime vouz.'
>
not really, j'laime vouz doesn't really mean I love you
je vous aime
now that means I love you
Regards
Amit
>Regards..Robin
>
>
>
V S Rawat
> V S Rawat wrote:
>
>> Surma Bhopali wrote:
>>
>>>> The next verses are: il tempo fallo
>>>
>>> i tempo vaalaa
>>
>> you must be remembering some "tempo waalaa" (cabby
>> driver) of bhopal :).
>>
>
> At first I thought this song has words in different
> Indian languages deformed and mixed to produce Italian
> effect.:)
>
> aa more miio (aa mere miyaa.N [though I knew "amore"
> means "love" having watched the film "15 Amore"])
>
> di sto cercando (ish.. ##turture## kaa.nDo [kaa.nD in
> Bangla])
>
> taa_ii solo mio (thy sharam-io)
a nearer one will be
taa_ii: hindi (wife of elder brother of father)
taa_ii: marathi (sister)
and mio, miyo.n could be plural of miyaa.N
-rawat
>
> il tempo fallo (i Tempo vaalaa)
:) you have spoiled the song for me.
there is a line in it. "ye kashtii vaalaa."
ever since i read your line, I am humming that as "ye tempo
waalaa kyaa gaa rahaa hai."
for this disservice to RDB, may a bird crap on you at 7:00
PM today. :)
-Rawat
V S Rawat
>
> As to "the question if RDB was the first person to
> introduce non-english foreign words in Hindi songs, i can
> only say that it seems improbable", you would be
> correct.
>
> I had once compiled a list of Hindi songs with
> non-English foreign words. Can't find it now and can't
> recall all of them except a few -
Please whenever you find that, do post.
> An Evening In Paris - leja leja mera dil, where Sharda
> intones in French.. what was that phrase, I can't recall
> now...'bene mishe masha ri..' something like that..
don't remember.
> Another is the lovely Lata solo from SJ's Kali Ghata -
> which has the phonetic 'la il est belle, la il est
> belle.. j'laime vouz, j'laime vouz....'.. have forgotten
> all my college French vocabulary and spelling (it was
> quite marginal anyway).. but the second part of the
> phrase means.."I love you, I love you"
aha.
this song wins hands down as the song before RDB's. It
clearly has sentences in "non-english" "foreign languages".
> Then there was My Love's Rafi solo in which he utters
> some words in Swahili.
?????
> And of course, if we open it up to Arabic words, there
> would a huge number of songs.
Arabic words can be mentioned. Just ignore those basically
arabic words which have come into indian urdu, say, laa
ilaahaa..." etc.
there is a current song in murder by anu malik which has
some foreign words, i guess it could be arabic.
mohabbat ke safar me.n tuu hamaaraa hai
what are they and in which language?
something like "taballii o aa uu"
> harv...@hotmail.com (pramod) wrote in message
>
>> Like Salil Choudhary took the tune for the song from
>> "dil ta.Dap ta.Dap ke kah rahaa hai aa bhI jaa" from a
>> traditional Polish song.
taking the tune is a different thing. the song dil ta.Dap
ta.Dap did not have any non-hindi-urdu words.
>> I came upon it quite accidentally as I was learning
>> German with a group of Polish students and at a party
>> they started singing this song. But onyl the opening
>> tune is from the Polish song.
which polish song was it, by any chance you remember?
>> The latter aprt is I think is Salilsahab's own
>> composition. Anyway I think there surely must be some
>> sprinkling of Russian or Spanish or Portuguese songs in
>> earlier songs earleir than "do lafzo.n kii hai dil kii
>> kahaanii".
>> Remarks: From the sound of it, it seems the singer of
>> this gondolier song is not an Italian. It sounds very
>> much like an Indian, trying to sound very angrez, which
>> is wrong since the words concerned are Italian. I will
>> have to look up my records at home who the singer is?
Ilatian is one of those languages which use soft
pronunciation (T as t, etc.) unlike languages like german
which use more of hard sounds.
-Rawat
@bollyvista.com Amit Malhotra
wrote:
>Robin wrote:
> >
>
>there is a current song in murder by anu malik which has
>some foreign words, i guess it could be arabic.
>
>mohabbat ke safar me.n tuu hamaaraa hai
>
>what are they and in which language?
>something like "taballii o aa uu"
>
yeah it is arabic.... the original song (without the hindi part) is
quite nice actually.
Amit
(i just like the music, no i don't understand what they are saying!)
V S Rawat
> On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 23:29:26 -0500, "Afzal A. Khan"
> <me_a...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Amit Malhotra wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>> P.s. tumhaaraa khoon khoon hai, hamaaraa khoon
>>>>> paani hai?
>>>>
>>>> Good that you've gotten your humour back! Don't
>>>> forget that the major difference is more important
>>>> than blood and water: I am only asking questions,
>>>> while you are doing the answering.
>>>>
>>>> Ashok
>>>
>>> I would love to continue our discussion on izaafat
>>> and how much I know or don't know in ottawa :)
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Amit Malhotra
>>
>>
>>
>> Can the roles be reversed, with you doing the
>> questioning ? And I hope one or two paragraphs would
>> be devoted to this discussion in the Meet Report.
>>
>>
>>
>> Afzal
>
>
> me asking questions to a learned man like Ashok .. i'd be
> intimidated :-D
:-P
Some confession that all the questions you asked till now
were directed towards non-learned men. :-D
> Amit Malhotra
-Rawat
Ket...@att.net
>>
>> Can the roles be reversed, with you doing the
>> questioning ? And I hope one or two paragraphs would
>> be devoted to this discussion in the Meet Report.
>>
>>
>>
>> Afzal
>
>me asking questions to a learned man like Ashok .. i'd be intimidated
>:-D
Why? You won't get any answers. Just more questions. :)
>but yeah, the report idea is very good... if it's to be reported, then
>i'd have to prepare my ammunitions before hand lol
Well don't volunteer to do the report. For a change get Ashok to write one. It's
high-time he wrote one instead of latching onto some poor bakra every time. From
previous RMIM meets, this is usually the first job he will assign you, so don't
say you weren't warned. :)
Ketan
>Regards
>
>Amit Malhotra
Surjit Singh
Why don't you come too? You cannot be that far from Ottawa.
>
>
> Afzal
--
Surjit Singh, a diehard movie fan(atic), period.
Anant Rege
"Surjit Singh" <surjit...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2jdta8F...@uni-berlin.de...
> Afzal A. Khan wrote:
> >
> > Can the roles be reversed, with you doing the
> > questioning ? And I hope one or two paragraphs would
> > be devoted to this discussion in the Meet Report.
> >
>
> Why don't you come too? You cannot be that far from Ottawa.
>
> >
> >
> > Afzal
>
Anant
Afzal A. Khan
I presume the others present would even be "speaking"
in iTrans ! No way !
Afzal
Anant Rege
"Afzal A. Khan" <me_a...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:40D1C331...@privacy.net...
Now I know why are you so much confused about iTrans. It has got nothing to
do with "speaking". It is all about "writing". May be it is a good idea to
attend the meet to clear this all up.
Anant
>
> Afzal
Surjit Singh
I wish Vish were coming. My quiz is specially made to challenge one of
his hythoeses!
> Anant
>
>
>
--
Surjit Singh, a diehard movie fan(atic), period.
Visit my home page at
http://hindi-movies-songs.com/index.html
Afzal A. Khan
I was expecting a reply along these lines from UVR.
The fact that you did so proves that there IS an
iTrans mafia ! But first "tell" me (not write or
type) whether the Meet "do roj chalegi" ya "ek roj
men KHatm ho jaayegi" !
Afzal
Srinivas Ganti
> Ashok wrote:
>
> > In article <1gsuc0108g5k32bi8...@4ax.com>,
am...@bollyvista.com
> > says...
> >
> >>On 15 Jun 2004 22:01:59 GMT, adhar...@hotmail.com (Ashok) wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>In article <05ouc05k6d3kqu5pd...@4ax.com>,
am...@bollyvista.com
> >
> > says...
> >
> >>>>I don't know italian so I really shoulnd't talk
> >>>
> >>>>Amit
> >>>
> >>>When did that stop you?!
> >>>
> >>>Ashok
> >>>
> >>
> >>I'll stop the day you stop talking about things that you dont know :)
> >>
> >>
> >>Amit
> >>P.s. tumhaaraa khoon khoon hai, hamaaraa khoon paani hai?
> >
>
> Legend has it that a blind person came to hear him speak! Another
> favorite line from the same movie,
>
> jab tak vo merii beTii thii ...
aah then its Sohrab Modi !
sg.
Anant Rege
Afzalbhai
Can you please me your phone number by mail? Then I will "tell" you whatever
you want to know.
Regards
Anant
>
> Afzal
pramod
> >> Remarks: From the sound of it, it seems the singer of
> >> this gondolier song is not an Italian. It sounds very
> >> much like an Indian, trying to sound very angrez, which
> >> is wrong since the words concerned are Italian. I will
> >> have to look up my records at home who the singer is?
>
> Ilatian is one of those languages which use soft
> pronunciation (T as t, etc.) unlike languages like german
> which use more of hard sounds.
>
> -Rawat
> >>
> >> Curious of further responses
> >>
> >> Best regards Pramod
German is spoken differently in different regions. Like in Austria you
can hardly differentiate between t and d. They pronounce it somewhere
between ta and da. And if they spell the words they call the former
alphabet hard and the latter soft. The same thing is to be observed to
some extent in Bavaria as well.
Austrians can't pronounce talwaar, they say dalwaar
Italians use mostly ta and, tha, Ta and Tha are nonexistent.
Regards
Pramod
pramod
> >> I came upon it quite accidentally as I was learning
> >> German with a group of Polish students and at a party
> >> they started singing this song. But onyl the opening
> >> tune is from the Polish song.
>
> which polish song was it, by any chance you remember?
Can't remember! But we had a whale of a time. Unfortunately lost all
contact with them. That was before the advent of e.mail.
Best regards Pramod
Ket...@att.net
Go to: http://www.iespana.es/i2fs/
and click on the Salil Chowdhury link. There you will read the following text
with links to the Polish songs. All credit to Karthik for his patience in
unearthing these gems.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dil tadap tadap ke [Madhumati (1958)] <TC>
Inspired by the Polish folk song "Szla dzieweczka do gajeczka" (pronounced
"shwah jeh-vehtch-ka duh lah-sech-kah")!
Listen to Dil tadap tadap ke | Szla dzieweczka do gajeczka (slower folk version)
| Szla dzieweczka do gajeczka (faster modern version)
I had enquired about this original long back (December 9th, 2001, in RMIM, to be
precise!) but couldn't get any info...till now, that is! It was my dad who told
me that he had heard the original of this Madhumati number in a documentary
titled 'Music and dances of Silesia' that accompanied the Polish World War II
classic 'Kanal' by Andrez Wajda (My dad had seen the movie way back in the 60s
while he was in Calcutta). So naturally, we both assumed that the original
should have Polish origins and have been on the look out ever since. Recently I
came across Sundar's website, which also talked about an original to this
number. Then finally, with the help of Sundar, I managed to get the original
from a Bangalore-based RJ, Seetal Iyer, who hosts the 'Matinee Show' (the FM
station is called Radiocity, btw!). Seems her brother had married a girl of
Polish descent and it was in their wedding video that she heard the Polish
original!
For those who might be interested in knowing more about this Polish number, here
goes! I had posted a query about the origins of this number in as many Polish
music forums as I could find on the net. And Ms. Wanda Wilk, Director of Polish
Music Center at the University of Southern California wrote back with some
amazing information, for which I'm really thankful to her. Here's what she
says...
"The song is a very popular folk-song that originated in the Silesian
(South-Western) part of Poland i.e., from the regions of Slask Gorny (High
Silesia), Cieszyn and Opole regions. The ethnographer Juliusz Roger identifies
it as coming from Rybnik, which is near the Czech border. That is where the
famous Polish jazz pianist, Adam Makowicz, and the famous Polish composer,
Henryk Gorecki, come from. It has been very popular throughout Poland for many
years, for various celebratory occasions like namesday, youth gatherings etc. It
has been recorded by the professional Folk Song & Dance Ensemble, 'Slask'
produced by Polskie Nagrania, by the Lira Ensemble of Chicago and by popular
singers like Maryla Rodowicz and popular Polish dance bands.
As far as the pronunciation, it goes something like this...
Szla dzieweczka: shwah jeh-vehtch-ka
do laseczka: duh lah-sech-kah
do zielonego: duh zhyeh-loh-neh-go
nadeszla tam mysliweczka: nah-desh-wah tahm mih-shlee-vetch-kah
bardzo szwarnego: bahr-dzoh schwahr-neh-goh
O moj mily mysliweczku: Oh mooy mee-lyh mih-shlee-vetch-koo
dalabym ci chleba z maslem: dah-wah-bim chee hleh-bah z mahs-wem
alem juz zjadla: a-lehm yoosh zyad-wah"
Thanks to Sundar Srinivasan, his pal Nivedita, Radiocity Bangalore RJ, Seetal
Iyer and Wanda Wilk at the Polish Music Center@USC.
Afzal A. Khan
It is Andrzej Wajda. And the year when the films
in Calcutta were screened was probably 1969.
Afzal
Afzal A. Khan
V S Rawat wrote:
>
> what was
> 1. the language,
> 2. the words
> 3. and the literal meaning of words.
> sprinkled all over in this song of The great gambler
>
> "amore nio......"
>
> he was "apane pyaar ko yaad kar rahaa thaa aur kah rahaa
> thaa". 'do lafzo.n kii hai... " was the concept.
> -----------------
>
> Was it RDB who introduced "full sentences" of "non-english"
> "foreign languages" first time with this hindi film song?
>
> Which were such songs earlier to it.
>
> An occassional sayonaaraa etc repeated ad infitum in a song
> will not count.
>
> -Rawat
Now that people have analyzed Italian and French, how
about the language of the heading itself ? That is Urdu
and it should be "do lafzoN.....".
Afzal
Robin
Now you know why I said my French was marginal :)
So, if you can go back to those three songs (one from Kali Ghata and
two from AEIP), perhaps you can tell us what the French words in them
mean.
I could swear though that -
Je = I ?
Aime = love ? (with some contraction for the 'l')
Vouz = you?
An anecdotal amusement about the Kali Ghata song... for ages I used to
think Lata is saying 'jalembu, jalembu...', figuring that it was the
name of the hero, which must have been Kishore Sahu. Driving around
one day only very recently when I had one of those hfm epiphanies
where you tap your forehead with the palm and say, 'Oh, I did not
realize that?!'..
Regards..Robin
Amit Malhotra <amit @ bollyvista . com> wrote in message news:<bt92d0l1j1mkuf3go...@4ax.com>...
@bollyvista.com Amit Malhotra
>Amit,
>
>Now you know why I said my French was marginal :)
>
>So, if you can go back to those three songs (one from Kali Ghata and
>two from AEIP), perhaps you can tell us what the French words in them
>mean.
>
>I could swear though that -
>
>Je = I ?
>Aime = love ? (with some contraction for the 'l')
>Vouz = you?
>
I know your french may be marginal :) but i thought i'd correct you ..
at least this time i can say I AM SURE and rest Ashok's suspicions to
rest ;-)
You are right. Je = I, Aime (from the verb aimer) = to love and vous
(not vouz) = you (this is the french equivalent of "aap" and the
french equivalent of "tu" = tu )
how ever, there is no "L" in front of aime. and you don't say it like
english which means "I love you" does not equal "Je Aime vous" but
rather it's "Je vous aime" (or if using "tu", it's Je t'aime).
If you were using "L" and saying something like : "Je L'aime" it
would mean, "I love him/her". But if you do that, there is no point
in putting a "vous" there. it's like saying in hindi:
maiN us se muhabbat kartaa huuN aap .. .(does that make sense?)
(sorry for the french lesson on RMIM!)
>An anecdotal amusement about the Kali Ghata song... for ages I used to
>think Lata is saying 'jalembu, jalembu...', figuring that it was the
>name of the hero, which must have been Kishore Sahu. Driving around
>one day only very recently when I had one of those hfm epiphanies
>where you tap your forehead with the palm and say, 'Oh, I did not
>realize that?!'..
>
>Regards..Robin
>
>
>
i guess she was saying it all wrong in the first place :)
Regards,
Amit Malhotra
Ashok
>
>If you were using "L" and saying something like : "Je L'aime" it
>would mean, "I love him/her".
Or "it".
>But if you do that, there is no point
>in putting a "vous" there.
Depends. e.g.
C'est que je l'aime vous savez.
And even
"Je l'aime vous m'aimez"!
Ashok
>Amit Malhotra
>
>
Vish Krishnan
>
> I wish Vish were coming. My quiz is specially made to challenge one of
Sorry. Missed this post (almost as bad as missing the Ottawa bash). I
am just ust curious. Which hypothesis?
cheers
vish
Surjit Singh
At various meets you have regaled the attendees with samples of various
MDs compositions (particularly Salid, Khaiyyam and Anil Biswas) to
expound on how they have distinct signatures. I remember you surmising
that it is relatively easy to associate MDs with their compositions.
Your examples consisted of mainly interlude and background music, IIRC.
I made an mp3 CD of the title music of 233 films and distributed it. You
will get a copy from guri, as usual!
I played 30 selected titles at the meet with one of two MDs repeated. I
was curious to see how many of the hard-to-guess and obscure MDs you
would have been able to guess!
My guess is that it would have been hard, not easy, except for the
famous ones.
>
> cheers
> vish
Srinivas Ganti
> Vish Krishnan wrote:
>
> > Surjit Singh <surjit...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<2je267F...@uni-berlin.de>...
> >
> >>I wish Vish were coming. My quiz is specially made to challenge one of
> >>his hypotheses!
> >
> >
> > Sorry. Missed this post (almost as bad as missing the Ottawa bash). I
> > am just ust curious. Which hypothesis?
>
> At various meets you have regaled the attendees with samples of various
> MDs compositions (particularly Salid, Khaiyyam and Anil Biswas) to
> expound on how they have distinct signatures. I remember you surmising
> that it is relatively easy to associate MDs with their compositions.
> Your examples consisted of mainly interlude and background music, IIRC.
> I made an mp3 CD of the title music of 233 films and distributed it. You
> will get a copy from guri, as usual!
>
> I played 30 selected titles at the meet with one of two MDs repeated. I
> was curious to see how many of the hard-to-guess and obscure MDs you
> would have been able to guess!
>
> My guess is that it would have been hard, not easy, except for the
> famous ones.
You shud have waited till the next meet before distributing the CD's.
That way Vish wud have got a chance to crack at it. That wud have let
ppl judge better if ur hypothesis is speculative or authentic :)
sg.
Surjit Singh
What makes you think I don't have more testing samples/examples?!
>
> sg.
Srinivas Ganti
>"Surjit Singh" <surjit...@yahoo.com> wrote
> What makes you think I don't have more testing samples/examples?!
Oh you have! Awesome ! :)
sg.
Sandaas
It's not often I can contribute to anything on rmim, but this
subthread piqued my interest.
> I had once compiled a list of Hindi songs with non-English foreign
> words. Can't find it now and can't recall all of them except a few -
>
> An Evening In Paris - leja leja mera dil, where Sharda intones in
> French.. what was that phrase, I can't recall now...'bene mishe masha
> ri..' something like that..
Do you know where I can find an mp3 of this song? What's the exact
title?
> Another is the lovely Lata solo from SJ's Kali Ghata - which has the
> phonetic 'la il est belle, la il est belle.. j'laime vouz, j'laime
> vouz....'.. have forgotten all my college French vocabulary and
> spelling (it was quite marginal anyway).. but the second part of the
> phrase means.."I love you, I love you"
I listened to this song (the only song Lata appears to sing on the
soundtrack is "Kali Ghata Chhai") on musicindiaonline. I honestly
couldn't pick up any French when she was singing it. Perhaps the
online songs aren't complete.
I would note, however, that "la il est belle" makes next to no sense.
It roughly translates to "the he is pretty". The more probable
transliteration is "l'ile est belle" or something of that sort. Two
vowels next to each other usually cause the article to be contracted.
The best way of saying "I love you" in French (with my limited
experience) seems to be "je t'aime" or "je vous aime". "Je l'aime", as
others have said, translates to "I love/like it/him/her". (The French
use the same verb for "love" and "like", which has always struck me as
strange for a nation of supposed romantics. Mercifully they have a
noun for "love".)
<snip>
Aditya
kcp
>
> As to "the question if RDB was the first person to introduce
> non-english foreign words in Hindi songs, i can only say that it seems
> improbable", you would be correct.
>
> I had once compiled a list of Hindi songs with non-English foreign
> words. Can't find it now and can't recall all of them except a few -
>
> An Evening In Paris - leja leja mera dil, where Sharda intones in
> French.. what was that phrase, I can't recall now...'bene mishe masha
> ri..' something like that..
>
> phonetic 'la il est belle, la il est belle.. j'laime vouz, j'laime
> vouz....'.. have forgotten all my college French vocabulary and
> spelling (it was quite marginal anyway).. but the second part of the
> phrase means.."I love you, I love you"
>
> Swahili.
>
> And of course, if we open it up to Arabic words, there would a huge
> number of songs.
>
> Regards..Robin
>
Robin bhai how did u forget that Helicopter song from the 1960 film, Bewaqoof !! :)
KCP
Robin
A thread beaten to death at this point? Those d*** French, again
prolonging the issues!
In response to your questions -
Don't know where an mp3 of the Sharda song of AEIP would exist but the
cd's, cassettes, etc are commonly available. Horrific thought, but if
there is such a thing as 'Golden Greats of Sharda' this one should
make it in there. If you still do not locate it, do send me a note, I
know I have it somewhere.
(Thinking aloud that Sharda likely represents the one and only case in
Hindi films where a singer was used by only one music director? There
is also the equally frightening Nalin Dave who sang for LP in 'Prem',
and that was it, as far as I recall. Also, in Sapne Saajan Ke, there
was a Mukul Agarwal(?), who did 'sajna, tere pyar mein, kabhi bhula
kabhi yaad kiya' with Alka Yagnik, under Nadeem-Shravan. Again, a
one-md, one-song wonder? Though I like that number a great deal)..
As to the Kali Ghata song and your comment - 'the more probable
transliteration is "l'ile est belle" or something of that sort',
sounds correct to me. As I had said, I had gone only by the
aural/phonetic understanding, French grammar have left me long behind.
Best regards..Robin
---
sandaa...@yahoo.com (Sandaas) wrote in message news:<99dd97d1.04071...@posting.google.com>...