Songs of Dastak(old)
Anup Pandey
Hi All,
I had the chance to finally see Dastak(old one
*ing Sanjeev Kumar, Rehana Sultana) with fellow
RMIMer Madhusudan.
All the songs are out of this world. Majrooh
Lata and Madan Mohan literally(for me) creates
magic in the songs of this movie. I will discuss
the movie at the end for movie buffs. I have some
questions regarding the songs.
1) bai.nyaa naa dharo, o balamaa, naa karo mose raar
What is "raar". Is its a derivative of pyaar? :-)
2) ham hai.n mataa\-e\-kuuchaa\-o\-baazaar kii tarah
What is "mataa\-e\-kuuchaa\-o\-baazaar". I understand
"baazaar" :) and I think "kuuchaa" is neighborhood or
mohalla.
3) Mai re mein kaase kahun ki apne jiyaa(?) ki
In the audio cassette this tandem song is by Lata and Madan Mohan.
(I think it featured in RJGK on tandem songs by Balaji/Malini)
but in the movie I saw only Lata's version. The movie is
quite old. How common or uncommon was the practice to release a
song just for the cassette/album and not have it in the movie
during that time.
I have to express my thanks to Vish and Sami. They praised the
songs and movie Dastak in some of their posts.
About the movie: Movie can be considered as "art movie of 70s".
Its B&W, slow and has a serious theme. Sanjeev Kumar as always
is brilliant. Rehana Sultana did a great job. I also liked her
acting in her other movie Chetana(song: Main to har mod par tujhko
dekha sadaa; *ing Anil Dhawan). What happened to her and are
there any other movies of her. I know only one other "Padoosi".
Coming back to movie, movie is for adult audience(I donno if got
an A certificate or not). Watch the movie if you can manage to
watch a slow paced, serious and at times tragic movie but remember
it has some of the great songs of all time.
Cheers
Anup
Prince Kohli
Anup Pandey <apa...@raynet.com> wrote:
>
>I had the chance to finally see Dastak(old one
>*ing Sanjeev Kumar, Rehana Sultana) with fellow
>RMIMer Madhusudan.
>
>All the songs are out of this world.
Totally agree.
>the movie at the end for movie buffs. I have some
>questions regarding the songs.
>
>1) bai.nyaa naa dharo, o balamaa, naa karo mose raar
>
>What is "raar". Is its a derivative of pyaar? :-)
Could it be "naa karo mose laaD" as in laaD-pyaar?
>2) ham hai.n mataa\-e\-kuuchaa\-o\-baazaar kii tarah
>
>What is "mataa\-e\-kuuchaa\-o\-baazaar". I understand
>"baazaar" :) and I think "kuuchaa" is neighborhood or
>mohalla.
From what Sami once told me, this means "I am like a
bikaa-oo (for sale) thing in the bazaar." The next line
reinforces this - "uth tee hai har nigaah khareedar kee
tarah."
>3) Mai re mein kaase kahun ki apne jiyaa(?) ki
This is "maii ree main kaase kahoon, peer apne jiya kee."
"Peer" means, depending on context, pain, wish, need.
All the above is AFAIR.
-Prince
rkri...@informix.com
apa...@raynet.com (Anup Pandey) wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I had the chance to finally see Dastak(old one
> *ing Sanjeev Kumar, Rehana Sultana) with fellow
> RMIMer Madhusudan.
>
> Lata and Madan Mohan literally(for me) creates
> magic in the songs of this movie. I will discuss
> questions regarding the songs.
>
> 1) bai.nyaa naa dharo, o balamaa, naa karo mose raar
>
> What is "raar". Is its a derivative of pyaar? :-)
>
>
> What is "mataa\-e\-kuuchaa\-o\-baazaar". I understand
> "baazaar" :) and I think "kuuchaa" is neighborhood or
> mohalla.
>
>
did not mention "tumse kahoon ek baat .." (Rafi). Is it because it was sung
by Rafi. I would have loved to see Kishore Kumar trying to sing that song
( and of course making a mess of it - particularly where Rafi almost whispers
"halki - halki".
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Vijay Raghavacharian
While on the topic of "Tumse Kahoon ek baat ..." ..... it reminds me of
the other
Madan Mohan song ...."Tum Jo Mil gaye ho, To yeh lagataa Hai ...". Don't
you guys
think both the songs are quite similar ? Would like to know your
feedback. I don't
remember the film name of the later song - but if I remember correct,
it
was picturised on Raj Kumar & an actress.
Rajan P. Parrikar
apa...@raynet.com (Anup Pandey) writes:
>1) bai.nyaa naa dharo, o balamaa, naa karo mose raar
>What is "raar". Is its a derivative of pyaar? :-)
Yes and no. Yes, because 'raar' is a required activity in
pyaar as anybody who has been in pyaar will testify.
"Raar" is brajbhAshA for quarrel/dispute/complaint...you get the idea.
>2) ham hai.n mataa\-e\-kuuchaa\-o\-baazaar kii tarah
>What is "mataa\-e\-kuuchaa\-o\-baazaar". I understand
>"baazaar" :) and I think "kuuchaa" is neighborhood or
>mohalla.
Yes, kuuchaa means alley or neighbourhood. I forget what
the phrase you cite above translates to, however.
r
Nishi
Prince Kohli wrote:
>
> Anup Pandey <apa...@raynet.com> wrote:
> >
> >I had the chance to finally see Dastak(old one
> >*ing Sanjeev Kumar, Rehana Sultana) with fellow
> >RMIMer Madhusudan.
> >
> >All the songs are out of this world.
>
>
> >the movie at the end for movie buffs. I have some
> >questions regarding the songs.
> >
> >
> >What is "raar". Is its a derivative of pyaar? :-)
>
I think raar would be a short form of 'Taqraar'.
Also for info all the songs are penned by Majrooh but Mai ree was
actually written by Bedi who is the producer/director of the film. and
although Bedi received many awards for this film and went on to get the
Padma shri this film cost him all his money and land which he had
mortgaged, which eventually led to his stroke and death.
n
> >2) ham hai.n mataa\-e\-kuuchaa\-o\-baazaar kii tarah
> >
> >What is "mataa\-e\-kuuchaa\-o\-baazaar". I understand
> >"baazaar" :) and I think "kuuchaa" is neighborhood or
> >mohalla.
>
> From what Sami once told me, this means "I am like a
> bikaa-oo (for sale) thing in the bazaar." The next line
> reinforces this - "uth tee hai har nigaah khareedar kee
> tarah."
>
> >3) Mai re mein kaase kahun ki apne jiyaa(?) ki
>
> This is "maii ree main kaase kahoon, peer apne jiya kee."
> "Peer" means, depending on context, pain, wish, need.
>
> All the above is AFAIR.
>
> -Prince
--
The World Bank, 1818 H St. NW, Washington DC 20433, U.S.A.
http://www.worldbank.org +1(202)477-1234
rkri...@informix.com
In article <32A63E...@aol.com>,
Vijay Raghavacharian <vragh...@aol.com> wrote:
> While on the topic of "Tumse Kahoon ek baat ..." ..... it reminds me of
> the other
> Madan Mohan song ...."Tum Jo Mil gaye ho, To yeh lagataa Hai ...". Don't
> you guys
> think both the songs are quite similar ? Would like to know your
> feedback. I don't
> remember the film name of the later song - but if I remember correct,
> it
> was picturised on Raj Kumar & an actress.
The second song is from Haste Zakhm starring Navin Nischol and Priya. The
song which is similar to the dastak song is "meri duniya main tum jo .."
from Heer Ranjha starring Raj Kumar and Priya.
~
Abhay Avachat
In article <587est$g...@leonard.anu.edu.au>, daw...@leonard.anu.edu.au says...
>apa...@raynet.com (Anup Pandey) wrote:
>>2) ham hai.n mataa\-e\-kuuchaa\-o\-baazaar kii tarah
>
>>What is "mataa\-e\-kuuchaa\-o\-baazaar". I understand
>>"baazaar" :) and I think "kuuchaa" is neighborhood or
>>mohalla.
>
>me stumped, sorry, all I can think of is mataa' (goods, merchandise,
>property), but I don't suppose that's it.
Yes, that's it ! "mataa" means "saamaan". Now don't equate Mahrooh to
Gulzar :-). The long phrase can be translated as ...
mataa-e-kuchaa-o-bazaar
= mataa-e-[kuuchaa-o-bazaar]
= "saamaan" OF ["gali" AND "bazaar"]
= "bazaar me ya raste pe rakha huaa saamaan"
In Urdu, the -e- is used as "of" and -o- for "and". The rules of the
operator precedence are obvious from the context. :-)
This word always reminds me of the following sher writen by Faiz when
he was in jail.
mataa-e-lauh-o-qalam chheen gayi, to kya ghum hai
ki khoon-e-dil me Dubolee hai ungaliyaaN maine
Here too the phrase mata-e-lauh-o-qalam can be translated in the
same way, which is left as an excercise to the reader. :-) :-) The
endproduct of this process should be "likhane ka samaan". The reason
I mentioned the sher, is that the word "mataa" comes in structurally
similar phrases in both.
- Abhay.
Using my limited "mataa-e-kitaab-o-deevaan" :-) :-)
David Anthony Windsor
apa...@raynet.com (Anup Pandey) wrote:
>I had the chance to finally see Dastak(old one
>*ing Sanjeev Kumar, Rehana Sultana) with fellow
>RMIMer Madhusudan.
>I have some
>questions regarding the songs.
I don't know the songs, so I might be right off the track here, but going
by what you've given
>1) bai.nyaa naa dharo, o balamaa, naa karo mose raar
>
>What is "raar". Is its a derivative of pyaar? :-)
'raar' is the Braj Bhasha form of 'raa.D', fight, quarrel or la.Daaii;
whether it's the derivative or necessary consequence of 'pyaar' or
not, I'll leave up to you :-)
jab muhabbat ka naam sunta hai
haay! kitnaa malaal hotaa hai
(Jazba)
>2) ham hai.n mataa\-e\-kuuchaa\-o\-baazaar kii tarah
>What is "mataa\-e\-kuuchaa\-o\-baazaar". I understand
>"baazaar" :) and I think "kuuchaa" is neighborhood or
>mohalla.
'kuuchaa' is neighborhood (specifically a lane or alley), but 'mataa' got
me stumped, sorry, all I can think of is mataa' (goods, merchandise,
property), but I don't suppose that's it.
>3) Mai re mein kaase kahun ki apne jiyaa(?) ki
isn't 'jiyaa' heart, mind, spirit, soul, life vagairah (being the
diminutive form of 'jii'; also in the form 'jiyaraa')?
As I said, I don't know the songs, so I beg your indulgence if I've gone
for the wrong words (and as I'm not too good on dialectical stuff - tho I
s'pose calling Braj Bhasha merely a 'dialect' of Hindi is a bit rich - I
fear I may be completely wrong).
Cheers,
D
bu-e-gul ya nawa-e-bulbul thi
`umr afsos kyaa shitaab gaii
John Jacob
Vijay Raghavacharian <vragh...@aol.com> wrote in article
<32A63E...@aol.com>...
>
>
> While on the topic of "Tumse Kahoon ek baat ..." ..... it reminds me of
> the other
> Madan Mohan song ...."Tum Jo Mil gaye ho, To yeh lagataa Hai ...". Don't
> you guys
> think both the songs are quite similar ? Would like to know your
> feedback. I don't
> remember the film name of the later song - but if I remember correct,
> it
> was picturised on Raj Kumar & an actress.
I don't know about the latter song you mention, but I do know the tune "Tum
jo mil gaye ho" is actually the musical interlude in another Madan Mohan
song:
Aaj socha to ansoon bhar aaye
Muddateyn hui muskuraye (Lata M)
One other song from the movie "Ghazal" comes to mind but ..
johnja
apa...@eur.ericsson.se
On Wed, 04 Dec 1996 10:21:05 -0600, rkri...@informix.com wrote:
> apa...@raynet.com (Anup Pandey) wrote:
> >
> There is no doubt that songs of Dastak were outstanding. But how come you
> did not mention "tumse kahoon ek baat .." (Rafi). Is it because it was sung
> by Rafi.
are good :)). O.K. just kidding, even though it looked like I was
listing all the songs of Dastak, I was not. I was listing only those
songs where I had some questions.
>I would have loved to see Kishore Kumar trying to sing that song
> ( and of course making a mess of it - particularly where Rafi almost whispers
> "halki - halki".
>
like "Yeh jeevan hai is jeevan ka" though may not be as soft as this
number. IMO, without bias :) the Rafi song is good but its the songs
of Lata that makes the album out of this world.
Cheers
Anup
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Anup Pandey
In article f...@fido.asd.sgi.com, pri...@viman.engr.sgi.com (Prince Kohli) writes:
> Anup Pandey <apa...@raynet.com> wrote:
> >What is "mataa\-e\-kuuchaa\-o\-baazaar". I understand
> >"baazaar" :) and I think "kuuchaa" is neighborhood or
> >mohalla.
>
> From what Sami once told me, this means "I am like a
> bikaa-oo (for sale) thing in the bazaar." The next line
> reinforces this - "uth tee hai har nigaah khareedar kee
> tarah."
>
Thats' right. As David W. and others pointed out mataa is an object
/merchandise so the lines makes perfect sense.
> >3) Mai re mein kaase kahun ki apne jiyaa(?) ki
>
> This is "maii ree main kaase kahoon, peer apne jiya kee."
> "Peer" means, depending on context, pain, wish, need.
>
Thanks Prince. I think in ISB peer is missing.
Cheers
Anup
rkri...@informix.com
apa...@eur.ericsson.se wrote:
>
>
> Yeah we Klaner took an oath never to mention Rafi's song esp. when they
> are good :)). O.K. just kidding, even though it looked like I was
> listing all the songs of Dastak, I was not. I was listing only those
> songs where I had some questions.
>
> >I would have loved to see Kishore Kumar trying to sing that song
> > ( and of course making a mess of it - particularly where Rafi almost
whispers
> > "halki - halki".
> >
>
> Unfortunately that's not possible. Kishore did sing softer numbers
> like "Yeh jeevan hai is jeevan ka" though may not be as soft as this
> number. IMO, without bias :) the Rafi song is good but its the songs
> of Lata that makes the album out of this world.
>
Of course Lata's song of Dastak were out of the world. Lata is Lata. No
Kishore or Rafi can match her singing ability.
Anand Ayyar
Prince Kohli wrote:
>
> Anup Pandey <apa...@raynet.com> wrote:
> >
> >I had the chance to finally see Dastak(old one
> >*ing Sanjeev Kumar, Rehana Sultana) with fellow
> >RMIMer Madhusudan.
> >
>
> Totally agree.
>
> >questions regarding the songs.
> >
> >1) bai.nyaa naa dharo, o balamaa, naa karo mose raar
> >
> >What is "raar". Is its a derivative of pyaar? :-)
>
>
No, unlikely to be 'laaD', because the stanzas end in 'r'
dhalegi chunariya ... machegi zhankaar
mohe chodo haay ... rahaa mohe nihaar
anand
Balaji A.S. Murthy
In article <8498899...@dejanews.com>, rkri...@informix.com says...
>
>apa...@eur.ericsson.se wrote:
>>
>> Unfortunately that's not possible. Kishore did sing softer numbers
>> like "Yeh jeevan hai is jeevan ka" though may not be as soft as this
>> number. IMO, without bias :) the Rafi song is good but its the songs
>> of Lata that makes the album out of this world.
>>
>
>
>Of course Lata's song of Dastak were out of the world. Lata is Lata. No
>Kishore or Rafi can match her singing ability.
>
But a Manna can not only match but even surpass. For example listen to the
lovely SC composition "Kanha bole na, poochuN baa.r baar kahna bole na" where
Lata seems to be always a step behind this great singer.
Sorry for digressing from the main topic.
- Balaji
P.S. Add the customary IMO :).
Surajit A. Bose
> 3) Mai re mein kaase kahun ki apne jiyaa(?) ki
The lyrics are "kaase kahun PEED apne jiya ki"--peed means suffering or sorrow.
> Rehana Sultana did a great job. I also liked her
> acting in her other movie Chetana(song: Main to har mod par tujhko
> dekha sadaa; *ing Anil Dhawan). What happened to her and are
> there any other movies of her. I know only one other "Padoosi".
Her name is Rehana Sultan. She was also in Prem Parbat, which has a great
score by Jaidev: ye dil aur unki nigahon ke saaye, etc. Another movie of
hers is Dil ki Rahen, which has the Lata/Madan Mohan song rasm-e-ulfat ko
nibhayen to nibhayen kaise. I believe that this movie was produced by
someone close to her (her father?) who thought it would make her a big
star. Instead, the movie flopped and made him bankrupt.
Ketan
On 6 Dec 1996 apa...@eur.ericsson.se wrote:
> On Wed, 04 Dec 1996 10:21:05 -0600, rkri...@informix.com wrote:
> > apa...@raynet.com (Anup Pandey) wrote:
> > >
> snipped
> > >
> > There is no doubt that songs of Dastak were outstanding. But how come you
> > did not mention "tumse kahoon ek baat .." (Rafi). Is it because it was sung
> > by Rafi.
>
> Yeah we Klaner took an oath never to mention Rafi's song esp. when they
> are good :)). O.K. just kidding, even though it looked like I was
> listing all the songs of Dastak, I was not. I was listing only those
> songs where I had some questions.
>
> >I would have loved to see Kishore Kumar trying to sing that song
> > ( and of course making a mess of it - particularly where Rafi almost whispers
> > "halki - halki".
> >
>
> Unfortunately that's not possible. Kishore did sing softer numbers
> like "Yeh jeevan hai is jeevan ka" though may not be as soft as this
> number. IMO, without bias :) the Rafi song is good but its the songs
> of Lata that makes the album out of this world.
Traitor! :)) have you looked at the results/comments of chitrahaar 12,
where Abhay has gone on record to call "Roop tera mastana" as "the sexiest
song in a male voice". Listen to KK "whispering" "aakhon se aakhen milti
hai aise..." Anup, how many times must I tell you "Never interfere when
the enemy is self-destructing". :))
Ketan
A Burman/KK fan(atic)
Irfan Moinuddin
> On 5 Dec 1996, Abhay Avachat wrote:
>
> mataa-e-kuchaa-o-bazaar
> = mataa-e-[kuuchaa-o-bazaar]
> = "saamaan" OF ["gali" AND "bazaar"]
> = "bazaar me ya raste pe rakha huaa saamaan"
>
> In Urdu, the -e- is used as "of" and -o- for "and". The rules of the
> operator precedence are obvious from the context. :-)
A small correction needs to be made here.
The -e- in many instances can be translated to mean "of" but
that is not really what it signifies. The -e- is there to signify
ezafat, meaning "extension or increase in". So, basically the ezafat
is a grammatical construct that extends or modifies a noun.
Well, how is that different from saying that -e- means "of", one might
ask. The answer lies in the nature of the ezafat construct.
Ezafat can be used in the following two ways: noun-e-noun and
noun-e-adjective.
Let me provide an example which illustrates why the -e- doesn't just mean
of but is a much broader grammatical construct. Ghalib wrote the
following:
Shikan-e-zulf-e-ambariN kyuN hai
Nigah-e-chashm-e-surma sa kya hai
Now, shikan-e-zulf follows the noun-e-noun construct so basically it means
curvacious hairlocks or appropriately, curves of hairlocks.
What does zulf-e-ambariN mean? AmbariN means fragrant. Therefore,
zulf-e-ambariN follows the noun-e-adjective construct. Clearly, it means
fragrant hairlocks but it wouldn't make sense to translate it as
"hairlocks of fragrant".
So, shikan-e-zulf-e-ambariN means the curves of fragrant hairlocks.
One can get away with thinking of -e- as "of" in a great many instances
but then one isn't really grasping the full essence of the ezafat
construct, which leads to confusion about the meaning of some ash'ar or
prose.
Irfan.
apa...@eur.ericsson.se
On Sat, 7 Dec 1996 16:48:00 -0500, Ketan <ke...@iag.net> wrote:
>
>
> On 6 Dec 1996 apa...@eur.ericsson.se wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 04 Dec 1996 10:21:05 -0600, rkri...@informix.com wrote:
> > > apa...@raynet.com (Anup Pandey) wrote:
> > > >
> > snipped
> >
> >
> > are good :)). O.K. just kidding, even though it looked like I was
> > listing all the songs of Dastak, I was not. I was listing only those
> > songs where I had some questions.
> >
> > >I would have loved to see Kishore Kumar trying to sing that song
> > > ( and of course making a mess of it - particularly where Rafi almost whispers
> > > "halki - halki".
> > >
> > Unfortunately that's not possible. Kishore did sing softer numbers
> > like "Yeh jeevan hai is jeevan ka" though may not be as soft as this
> > number. IMO, without bias :) the Rafi song is good but its the songs
> > of Lata that makes the album out of this world.
>
> Traitor! :)) have you looked at the results/comments of chitrahaar 12,
> where Abhay has gone on record to call "Roop tera mastana" as "the sexiest
> song in a male voice". Listen to KK "whispering" "aakhon se aakhen milti
> hai aise..." Anup, how many times must I tell you "Never interfere when
> the enemy is self-destructing". :))
>
and posted the answers of my questions reg. songs of Dastak. Thanks!
Well I should explain my statements further. :))
I said "thats not possible" with reference to being Kishoreda not
being with us. I retract my statement about that KK may not have sung
soft songs like "tumse kahoon ek baat". I remembered his other soft
songs like "o hansini", "samaa hai suhaana" and the way he says "dil"
in the begining of song "dil haye mera dil tera dil..." and of course
the sexiest song in male voice that you reminded.
I will like to dispute Ravi Krishna's stmt of the nature that Kishore
and Rafi can't compete with Lata. In the thread of tandem songs it
was noted that its the male singers whose songs are usually
better/popular versions and that included tandem songs of Lata-Kishore
and Lata-Rafi. This ofcourse with all due respect to Lata and her
enormous singing talent.
Cheers
Anup
> Ketan
>
> A Burman/KK fan(atic)
Ajay P Nerurkar
Anup Pandey (apa...@raynet.com) wrote:
: 1) bai.nyaa naa dharo, o balamaa, naa karo mose raar
: What is "raar". Is its a derivative of pyaar? :-)
For another acceptable usage of raaD look up the following reference :
[SB41] Saigal K.L. and Boral R.C. Kaahe ko raaD machai, LAGAN, 1941
Ajay
David Anthony Windsor
apa...@eur.ericsson.se writes:
>I will like to dispute Ravi Krishna's stmt of the nature that Kishore
>and Rafi can't compete with Lata.
are, yeh kya kah rahe hain aap? I'm sorry, but to think that any other
singer can come any where near Lata ji for expression, feeling, emotion,
as well as for musical purity ...
Cheers,
D
(hardly a terribly intellectual argument, but)
yaaro, Khata maaf meri, main nashe main hoon
saaGar mein may, may mein nasha, main nashe main hoon
Raghavan
I feel that thsong "mai Ree My Kaise Kahoon" was one of the best songs Lata
has sung for MM.I have a recording where madan Mohan sings this song in his
own voice.It is a pretty rough voice and fails to reach the peaks.But he is
able to put a lot of emotion into the song.As he finishes the last line, Lata's
voice
is in the background doing a small alap and she starts.Sheer magic is what I
experience whenever I listen to this song.
As for the music I feel that setting the music for this song whould have been
difficult as the words are not rythmic.But the entire sonf goes for
Lata's brilliant singing.No words to describe that.
Jay3 Test
Prince Kohli <pri...@viman.engr.sgi.com> wrote in article
<5835gd$f...@fido.asd.sgi.com>...
> Anup Pandey <apa...@raynet.com> wrote:
> >
> >I had the chance to finally see Dastak(old one
> >*ing Sanjeev Kumar, Rehana Sultana) with fellow
> >RMIMer Madhusudan.
> >
> >All the songs are out of this world.
>
> Totally agree.
>
>
> >3) Mai re mein kaase kahun ki apne jiyaa(?) ki
>
Did you know that Madanmohan (MD) has sang this song !
I like his ver. better than Lata's. (Madanmohan's ver. is not
in the movie.)
Jay
Ashok Z. Meghani
Jay3 Test <Jay3...@cdc.com> wrote in article
> Did you know that Madanmohan (MD) has sang this song !
> I like his ver. better than Lata's. (Madanmohan's ver. is not
> in the movie.)
>
+++ I have heard it and he certainly sounded better to me. Ashok
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> Jay
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