Kaifi on Gulzar
Artnut
Apologies at the outset if this has been discussed previously.
I vaguely recall Kaifi Azmi's comment on Gulzar that he doesn't even
consider Gulzar as a poet and that he's been given fame which he didn't
deserve---- something to that effect he implied.
May I know what prodded Kaifi to make such an egoistic statement?
Regards,
Arty
UVR
May I know where you read/heard the comment that you are
using to accuse Kaifi of egotism?
-UVR.
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
Simply saying Gulzar didn't deserve it doesn't make it egoistic. That
he has received wide acclaim for so much of his work doesn't mean
everyone has to agree. I am not entirely surprised by Kaifi Azmi
saying this, but am curious nonetheless. Gulzar has definitely done
his best to "break the mould" in more than a few spots, and while some
regard anything he touches as innovative genius, others probably find
his poetic style pointless and just kinda "out there".
Sanjeev
Abhay Phadnis
> On Jan 10, 8:20 am, "Artnut" <a...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
>
> > Apologies at the outset if this has been discussed previously.
> > I vaguely recall Kaifi Azmi's comment on Gulzar that he doesn't even
> > consider Gulzar as a poet and that he's been given fame which he didn't
> > deserve---- something to that effect he implied.
>
> > May I know what prodded Kaifi to make such an egoistic statement?
Why is this statement "egoistic"? Kaifi didn't say anything about his
own poetry on the one occasion I heard him talk about Gulzar's poetry.
(He said something much worse - see below.)
>
> May I know where you read/heard the comment that you are
> using to accuse Kaifi of egotism?
I saw a TV interview with Kaifi Azmi - must have been sometime in the
late 1990s - where he said (in essence) that Gulzar had given romantic
poetry a bad name and that he was no great shakes as a poet. He then
went on to say something inexcusable: that s-i-l Javed Akhtar had
brought back the essence of romantic poetry and that it was a pity
that people spoke of Gulzar and not of JA as a great poet. Whatever
one may think of Gulzar's poetry, it is a sign of very poor judgement
to take Javed Akhtar seriously as a poet - and as a better one than
Gulzar at that!
Warm regards,
Abhay
naniwadekar
"Abhay Phadnis" <aphadnis at gmail.com> wrote :
>
> that people spoke of Gulzar and not of JA as a great poet.
> Whatever one may think of Gulzar's poetry, it is a sign of
> very poor judgement
> to take Javed Akhtar seriously as a poet
>
Now is *that* a sign of egoism ?)
I am tempted to post a list of 104 films with Javed Akhtar's
poetry, 72 of which were hits.
Srivatsa
I also remember what Majrooh had said about Gulzar. This was during an
interview to the
Indian Express in late 80s if am not wrong.
He had told that he didn't consider Gulzar a very great poet since his
style
dint adhere to practicality. I clearly remember he had given 2
instances then to prove his point
1) Hamnein dekhi hai un aankhon ke mehekte khushoo from Anuradha -
Majrooh said this line just dint meet reality
since no one can "see" a fragrance.
2) Naam gum jaayega from Kinara - Majrooh said this line actually
should have been "Naam gum ho jaayega".
Majrooh had said that a poet cannot just write a few words to fit into
the meter and say that he has come up with great poetry clearly
indicating his dislike for Gulzar.
I am just quoting from memory, if any one has the actual interview,
can post it to the benefit of the members.
Regards,
Srivatsa
Abhay Phadnis
> "Abhay Phadnis" <aphadnis at gmail.com> wrote :
>
> > that people spoke of Gulzar and not of JA as a great poet.
> > Whatever one may think of Gulzar's poetry, it is a sign of
> > very poor judgement
> > to take Javed Akhtar seriously as a poet
>
> Now is *that* a sign of egoism ?)
Yes - mine, not Kaifi's!
>
> I am tempted to post a list of 104 films with Javed Akhtar's
> poetry, 72 of which were hits.
...which will, of course, prove as much about JA's poetic capabilities
as the list of Majrooh-RD hits proved about the latter's understanding
of poetry.
Warm regards,
Abhay
Artnut
"UVR" <u...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:19988428-4799-4e2b...@q77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
It was in the Times of India. Kaifi was living the life of a recluse
somewhere in UP, I think Azamgarh or Aligarh. The village didn't even have
electricity and Kaifi has no issues. IIRC, the correspondent must be Subhash
K Jha...but again, not sure.
I think after some months of this interview, Kaifi passed away. I am not
able to recall when he passed away.
Regards,
Arty
Artnut
"Srivatsa" <srivatsa...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:16c615b1-7794-4e29...@v29g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 10, 9:20 pm, "Artnut" <a...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Apologies at the outset if this has been discussed previously.
> I vaguely recall Kaifi Azmi's comment on Gulzar that he doesn't even
> consider Gulzar as a poet and that he's been given fame which he didn't
> deserve---- something to that effect he implied.
>
> May I know what prodded Kaifi to make such an egoistic statement?
>
> Regards,
>
> Arty
I also remember what Majrooh had said about Gulzar. This was during an
interview to the
Indian Express in late 80s if am not wrong.
He had told that he didn't consider Gulzar a very great poet since his
style
dint adhere to practicality. I clearly remember he had given 2
instances then to prove his point
1) Hamnein dekhi hai un aankhon ke mehekte khushoo from Anuradha -
Majrooh said this line just dint meet reality
since no one can "see" a fragrance.
The song hamne dekhi hai is from Khamoshi. Rajesh Khanna and Waheeda Rehman.
Arty
kcp
please do so sir ( better than comparing politicians with
musicians !! )
personally i am interested in the hits of JA of the 80's...I do not
consider 90's and current music as hits as there are so many media
openings to make an album hit
KCP
Asif
> > I am tempted to post a list of 104 films with Javed Akhtar's
> > poetry, 72 of which were hits.
>
> ...which will, of course, prove as much about JA's poetic capabilities
> as the list of Majrooh-RD hits proved about the latter's understanding
> of poetry.
>
> Warm regards,
> Abhay
Sir, I am surprised to see a growing list of RMIMers (on this and
other thread) who misunderstood the purpose of my posting that Majrooh-
RDB hit list to be proving RDB's understanding of poetry!
Arre, bhai logo, I posted that hit list just for that: hit songs!
Repeat with me: hit songs, hit songs, hit songs. Thank you.
Asif
Srinivas Ganti
> Hi all,
>
> Apologies at the outset if this has been discussed previously.
> I vaguely recall Kaifi Azmi's comment on Gulzar that he doesn't even
> consider Gulzar as a poet and that he's been given fame which he didn't
> deserve---- something to that effect he implied.
Checkout
for an interview with Kaifi.
"
What happened to your lyrics for movies? Why don't you write
songs any more?
Who is interested in my kind of lyrics any more? If you
listen to the current crop of songs, you will know exactly why.
Poets like Gulzar and Atal Bihari Vajpayee get nominated for
best lyrics. What can you expect in a literary environment
as sterile as this?
Who is your favourite lyricist today?
I cannot speak of favourites but the ones I enjoy the most
are Nida Faazli and Javed Akhtar. Nida Faazli is an outstanding
poet, whose work I have long admired, and Javed Akhtar, apart
from being my son-in-law, is very powerful, very sensitive.
His song for Border is a typical example. Sandesein aate hain...
It is so moving, so touching that it redeems all the pretentious
rubbish that passes off as poetry today.
Why don't you like Gulzar's lyrics or Vajpayee's poems which
are being sung today?
Where is the question of not liking them? Poetry is poetry
whether I like it or not. The tragedy is that Gulzar's fake
romanticism is what passes off as poetry today! Would singers
be singing Vajpayee's lyrics if he were not prime minister of
India? The answer is no. His poems have been around for years
now but no one has ever sung them or set them to music. It is
only now that he has been suddenly rediscovered! This is not
serious appreciation. Poetry cannot be compromised. It is either
good or bad. (Commercial or political) success has nothing to do
with it.
"
Afzal A. Khan
Asif MiaN,
Aap meri baat ka bura na manaayeN, lekin Faarsi men ek
kahaawat hai :
'Uzr-e-gunaah, bad~tar~az~gunaah
YahaaN bhi kuchh aisa hi m'uaamla hai !
As far as Urdu poetry is concerned, I think neither SDB
nor RDB understood much of it. But that didn't prevent
them from creating some great and even sublime music.
Majrooh is supposed to have made that remark in the
company of Kaifi Azmi and Ali Sardar Jaafri. Now the
last-named had practically no credentials as a film -
lyricist, though he was one of the greatest poets of his
era. It is quite probable that the discussion might have
been about (Urdu) poetry in general. And the names of
the two MDs could have been 'dragged' into the discussion
"willy-nilly".
I have a feeling that Irfaan Bhai is perhaps having a
quiet chuckle at all the brouhaha created by his "innocent"
intervention.
And I hope THIS does NOT create a hornet's nest !
Afzal
Abhijit
> Asif wrote:
> > On Jan 11, 3:45 am, Abhay Phadnis <aphad...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> I am tempted to post a list of 104 films with Javed Akhtar's
> >>> poetry, 72 of which were hits.
> >> ...which will, of course, prove as much about JA's poetic capabilities
> >> as the list of Majrooh-RD hits proved about the latter's understanding
> >> of poetry.
>
> >> Warm regards,
> >> Abhay
>
> > Sir, I am surprised to see a growing list of RMIMers (on this and
> > other thread) who misunderstood the purpose of my posting that Majrooh-
> > RDB hit list to be proving RDB's understanding of poetry!
>
> > Arre, bhai logo, I posted that hit list just for that: hit songs!
> > Repeat with me: hit songs, hit songs, hit songs. Thank you.
>
> > Asif
>
> Asif MiaN,
>
> Aap meri baat ka bura na manaayeN, lekin Faarsi men ek
> kahaawat hai :
>
> 'Uzr-e-gunaah, bad~tar~az~gunaah
>
> YahaaN bhi kuchh aisa hi m'uaamla hai !
>
> As far as Urdu poetry is concerned, I think neither SDB
> nor RDB understood much of it. But that didn't prevent
> them from creating some great and even sublime music.
>
So far the discussion was whether RDB understood poetry or not. Now
you have added the specialisation *Urdu poetry* which demands one
needs to know the language in the first place. Not sure about this,
but RDB, to his credit, has even written lyrics (though in English)
which suggests he had a sense of poetry.
uttam.p...@gmail.com
<SNIP><SNIP><SNIP>
> 1) Hamnein dekhi hai un aankhon ke mehekte khushoo from Anuradha -
> Majrooh said this line just dint meet reality
> since no one can "see" a fragrance.
Humne dekhi hai is from Khamoshi starring Waheeda Rehman and Rajesh
Khanna - one of my all time favorites.
I think that a true appreciation of this song can be had when one
listens to the entire song and puts in some sort of context to this.
Consider this situation:
Boy loves girl. Girl desires boy but cannot establish a relationship
with boy on account of "Samaj". Girl wants to tell the boy that she
desire boy but cannot for the same aforesaid reason.
Now think of the lyrics of this song.
Cheers!
Uttam
<SNIP>
Animesh K
> On Jan 11, 12:41 am, UVR <u...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On Jan 10, 8:20 am, "Artnut" <a...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> Apologies at the outset if this has been discussed previously.
>>> I vaguely recall Kaifi Azmi's comment on Gulzar that he doesn't even
>>> consider Gulzar as a poet and that he's been given fame which he didn't
>>> deserve---- something to that effect he implied.
>>> May I know what prodded Kaifi to make such an egoistic statement?
>
> Why is this statement "egoistic"? Kaifi didn't say anything about his
> own poetry on the one occasion I heard him talk about Gulzar's poetry.
> (He said something much worse - see below.)
>
>> May I know where you read/heard the comment that you are
>> using to accuse Kaifi of egotism?
>
> I saw a TV interview with Kaifi Azmi - must have been sometime in the
> late 1990s - where he said (in essence) that Gulzar had given romantic
> poetry a bad name and that he was no great shakes as a poet.
So which songs of Gulzar will really correspond to Romanticism? I will
be glad if someone can shed some light on Romantic (Urdu) poetry as well.