ravindra sangeet and hindi film songs
Surajit A. Bose
I was listening to Talat (and Suraiya--but barely) singing "raahi
matwaale, tu chheD ik baar man kaa sitaar" and began wondering about film
songs based on Ravindra Sangeet. Off the top of my head I can think of
these:
song: raahi matvaale, tuu chheD ik baar
based on: o re grihabaashi
film: Waris
singers: Talat, Suraiya (lopsided duet)
MD: Anil Biswas
song: tere mere milan ki yeh raina
based on: jadi taare naai chini go
film: Abhimaan
singers: Kishore, Lata
MD: Sachin Dev Burman
song: chhoTisi ik kalii Kili thii ek din baag me.n
based on: basante phuul gaa.nthlo aamaar joyer maalaa
film: Jurmana
singer: Lata
MD: Rahul Dev Burman
song: nain diiwaane, ek nahi.n maane
based on: she diin dujane
singer: Suraiya
film: Afsar
MD: Sachin Dev Burman
There surely must be lots more. After all, so many MD's were from the
Bengal belt--Hemant Kumar, Kishore Kumar, Salil Choudhury, Timir Baran,
etc. Is there a list of such songs extant somewhere in the RMIM archives?
Or could other RMIMers help compile such a list? (BTW, transcribing
Bengali is hard.....)
-Surajit
Ashok
In article <bose.2-2612...@tty2-11.tc.nd.edu>, bos...@nd.edu says...
>
>I was listening to Talat (and Suraiya--but barely) singing "raahi
>matwaale, tu chheD ik baar man kaa sitaar" and began wondering about film
>songs based on Ravindra Sangeet. Off the top of my head I can think of
>these:
>
>song: raahi matvaale, tuu chheD ik baar
>based on: o re grihabaashi
>film: Waris
>singers: Talat, Suraiya (lopsided duet)
>MD: Anil Biswas
>
<list chopped>
>
>There surely must be lots more. After all, so many MD's were from the
>Bengal belt--Hemant Kumar, Kishore Kumar, Salil Choudhury, Timir Baran,
>etc. Is there a list of such songs extant somewhere in the RMIM archives?
>Or could other RMIMers help compile such a list? (BTW, transcribing
>Bengali is hard.....)
>
>-Surajit
Interesting list of MDs from the long "belt"! But, apropos the topic
of the article, I haven't come across any systematically collected list of
Hindi film songs based on Ravindra Sangeet, only sporadic mentions by RMIMers.
It's task worth undertaking (and I'd prefer it if a "non-pakkaa" Bengali were
to be at the helm :)))
While at it, I think it would be proper to extend the scope of the project
to include the work of Kazi Nazrul Islam (e.g., "jaane kya tu ne kahee".)
Ashok
PS: Let me just add the following to amend the "dissing" Suraiya receives
above! "raahi matavaale" is a tandem song. The better-known version is
the duet in a happy mood, sung mainly by Talat. I haven't seent the film,
but from the structure of the sad version, it looks like it is, in turn, made
up of two distinct parts. The first of these is a Talat-Suraiya duet, in
which Suraiya dominates the singing. The second part of the sad version is
a Suraiya solo. The wording is changed to (approximate words):
raahi matavaale, tu aa jaa ek bar
tujh bin soona hai man ka sitaar
And, incredible but true: the sad versions are even more beautiful than the
happy duet.
Surajit A. Bose
In article <5a11ta$r...@lex.zippo.com>, ADhar...@WorldBank.Org (Ashok) wrote:
>
>I haven't come across any systematically collected list of
> Hindi film songs based on Ravindra Sangeet, only sporadic mentions by
RMIMers.
> It's task worth undertaking (and I'd prefer it if a "non-pakkaa" Bengali were
> to be at the helm :)))
Out of curiosity: Why? What difference would it make if a "pakka" Bengali
were to undertake the task?
All right, though, I'll bite: if RMIMers know of any Hindi songs based on
Ravindra Sangeet, please e-mail me or post the songs to the list.
And Ashok, thanks for the info re: Raahi Matwaale. I had no idea it was a
tandem song. The only version I've heard is the "happy" version with
Suraiya barely chipping in at the very end of the song. Now I'm dying to
hear the other versions, especially since you say they are more beautiful.
The Nazrul Geeti list is a good idea too, but I'm not competent to
undertake the task, since I know practically nothing re: Nazrul's songs. I
didn't even know "Jaane Kya" is based on Nazrul.
-Surajit
Vish Krishnan
At 06:13 PM 12/26/96 -0500, Surajit Bose wrote:
>-------------------
>RMIM Thru Mail (RTM)
>To reply to the original poster use the reply option in your mailer.
>Article posted to: rec.music.indian.misc
>Lines in article: 38
>-------------------
>
>I was listening to Talat (and Suraiya--but barely) singing "raahi
>matwaale, tu chheD ik baar man kaa sitaar" and began wondering about film
>songs based on Ravindra Sangeet. Off the top of my head I can think of
>these:
>
>song: raahi matvaale, tuu chheD ik baar
>based on: o re grihabaashi
>film: Waris
>singers: Talat, Suraiya (lopsided duet)
>MD: Anil Biswas
>
>based on: jadi taare naai chini go
>film: Abhimaan
>singers: Kishore, Lata
>MD: Sachin Dev Burman
>
>song: chhoTisi ik kalii Kili thii ek din baag me.n
>based on: basante phuul gaa.nthlo aamaar joyer maalaa
>film: Jurmana
>singer: Lata
>MD: Rahul Dev Burman
>
>song: nain diiwaane, ek nahi.n maane
>based on: she diin dujane
>singer: Suraiya
>film: Afsar
>MD: Sachin Dev Burman
>
>Bengal belt--Hemant Kumar, Kishore Kumar, Salil Choudhury, Timir Baran,
>etc. Is there a list of such songs extant somewhere in the RMIM archives?
>Or could other RMIMers help compile such a list? (BTW, transcribing
>Bengali is hard.....)
>
>-Surajit
>
Thanks for starting this series. There was a mention of doing something
similar for Kazi Nazrul Islam's influence on Hindi movie music. That may
be tougher probably only because his "originals" were not available that
much. Until recently that is. Now, there is a Nazrul Geet 4-pack that is
totally worthwhile. The star attraction for me there is Sachin Deb Burman's
"meghla nishi bhore", made later into "roj akeli aaye". I thought it would
have provided a kickoff for such a research effort, but... I have run through
the series, and haven't found a match other than "meghla nishi...". So,
one goes back to the 3 or 4 known ones (not included in the 4-pack, sadly)
like "ghaayal hiraniyaa", "jaane kyaa tune kahi", "main albeli, runjhun
runjhun
baaje ghoonghar moraa" (BUZDIL), and that is about it. I have always been
curious about specific aspects of Anil Biswas's music that may have been Nazrul
Geet in origin. No discoveries as yet.
In addition to the songs above, let me suggest the following as Rabindra
Sangeet transplants into the Hindi medium:
. man moraa uDtaa jaaye
baadal ke sang door gagan mein,
aaj nashe mein, gaata geet milan ke re,
rimjhim, rimhim, rimjhim
MAA BETA (1964?), Lata, Composer: Hemanta Mukherji
from
mana mero meghero s(h)ange, uDe chale deeg deeg..... (Hemanta Mukherjee)
. moray chanchal naina, madhu ras ke bhare
ANGULIMAAL (1960) - Meena Kapoor and chorus, Composer: Anil Biswas
from "madhu gandhe bharaa" (I have only heard a Lata-Hemanta version)
The Hindi song was never released by EMI as far as I know. It has even been
dropped
from the movie. Most curiously, Meena Kapoor sounds just like Asha Bhonsle
in the 2nd verse. Or IS IT Asha in the 2nd stanza?
. meghaa chhaye aadhi raat (not sure about this one)
SHARMEELEE (1972?), Lata, Composer: Sachin Deb Burman
from don't know the original.
. chhoo kar mere man ko, kiyaa toone kyaa ishaara (only the beginning is RS)
YAARAANA (1981?) - Kishore, Composer: Rajesh Roshan
from "tomaar holo shuru, amaar holo shaara" (I have only heard a
Lata-Hemanta version)
. kaise koi jiye, zeher hai zindagi (specially the 2nd stanza "taare na
jaanein..")
BAADBAAN (195x?), Geeta and Hemanta (2 versions), Composer: Timirbaran
Bhattacharya
from "???"
I would also suggest that we not restrict ourselves to the Hindi domain.
What about Bengali
movies? The numbers are probably significantly higher, but again, I don't
believe they
are teeming with Rabindra Sangeet adaptions. A good and familiar place to
look would of course
be Hemanta Mukherjee's movies like MON NIYE (isn't there a lovely
Asha-Hemanta duet in
it?), SURYATORAN, BAGHINI, MONIHAAR (??) etc. We have talked about Bengali
movies and music
on RMIM, but only through fleeting references. Perhaps it is time to get
organized, and
detailed. Music from the New Theatres age should provide a sound beginning.
Also, to go after Rabindra Sangeet "originals" (used here as a substitute
for the real, real
originals), one needs to look at the progatonist giants from the '50s
(Hemanta, Suchitra Mitra,
Kanika Banerjee, Dwijen Mukherjee, and from recent times, people like
Haimanti Shukla. Others?)
cheers
vish
Satish Subramanian
Surajit A. Bose (bos...@nd.edu) wrote:
> I was listening to Talat (and Suraiya--but barely) singing "raahi
> matwaale, tu chheD ik baar man kaa sitaar" and began wondering about
> film songs based on Ravindra Sangeet. Off the top of my head I can
> think of these:
> song: raahi matvaale, tuu chheD ik baar
> song: tere mere milan ki yeh raina
> song: chhoTisi ik kalii Kili thii ek din baag me.n
> song: nain diiwaane, ek nahi.n maane
> There surely must be lots more. After all, so many MD's were from
> the Bengal belt--Hemant Kumar, Kishore Kumar, Salil Choudhury, Timir
> Baran, etc. Is there a list of such songs extant somewhere in the
> RMIM archives? Or could other RMIMers help compile such a list?
> (BTW, transcribing Bengali is hard.....)
Good place to start would be old movies of Pankaj Mullick. He was
the pioneer in popularizing Rabindra Sangeet in Hindi films. Note
the word used is 'popularize' and not 'plagiarize'. Rabindranath
Tagore had himself composed a few songs and shared the credits in
some of Pankaj Mullick's movies in late 30s.
Most of the others who followed the foot steps of Pankaj Mullick like
Hemant Kumar, Anil Biswas, S.D.Burman were greatly influenced by
Tagore's compositions and used some of them in their films.
Anil Biswas in "raahi matwaale" (Waris) and S.D.Burman in "jaayen
to jaayen kahaan" (Taxi Driver) used Talat to sing the borrowed
tunes from Rabindra Sangeet. S.D.Burman's earliest hit with Geeta
Dutt "mera sundar sapna beet gaya" (Do Bhai) was also a Tagore
composition.
Hemant Kumar and Manna Dey were also accomplished singers of Rabindra
Sangeet. Kishore Kumar, although untrained, was considered an expert
in Rabindra Sangeet. Why else would Satyajit Ray make him sing the
Tagore songs in "Charulata" (in early sixties)?
Rajesh Roshan also made Kishore sing the Tagore tune "chookar mere man
ko" from "Yaarana". S.D.Burman's "tere mere milan ki yeh raina" from
"Abhimaan" was also by Kishore (and Lata). When Bappi Lahiri made his
"chandaa dekhe chandaa" in "Jhoothi" based on the same tune it was
Kishore again singing it beautifully with Asha. Another common link
between Abhimaan and Jhoothi was the director Hrishikesh Mukherjee.
Maybe he had a hand in the choice of the tunes.
Kavita Krishnamurthy had trained under the likes of Manna Dey to learn
singing including Rabindra Sangeet. So probably R.D.Burman found it
appropriate to call her when he used a Rabindra Sangeet tune. The song
was the "1942 - A Love Story" hit "pyar hua chupke se ye kya hua
chupke se". It also explains the similarity between the lines "kyon
naye lag rahe hai ye dharti gagan" and "heera toh pehle hi kisi aur
ki ho chuke" (from "panna ki tammana hai ki" in "Heera Panna").
I have no idea about the words of the originals, but I have heard them
once. In early 1994, the release of "1942-A Love Story" prompted some
Rabindra Sangeet fans to organize a choir to sing all Tagore tunes
which were used in films. They were bothered by the fact that the
credit for the tunes were going to the wrong people. The choir sang
the original and the film song back to back.
--
bye
satish
Here are the lyrics of the Bappi Lahiri's song from "Jhoothi".
A wonderful duet.
===
Film: JhooThi
Actors: Raj Babbar, Rekha
Singers: Kishore Kumar, Asha Bhosle
Music: Bappi Lahiri
Lyrics: Maya Govind
KK: Chanda dekhe chanda, to woh chanda sharmaaye
Gori gori chandni mein, gori jab muskaaye
AB: Jiya bole piya, to yeh jiya sharmaaye
Gori gori chandni mein, piya jab muskaaye
KK: Chaand se maathe pe bindiya jhilmilaaye aise
Chaand sooraj raat mein ek saath chamke aise
Jee kare yeh umar yoohin dekhte kat jaaye
AB: Jiya bole piya,.....
AB: Nain ban jaati hai ghoonghat man dulhan ki aasha
Baanchte hain jab nayan tere nayan ki bhaasha
Nain mein chhup kar mere mujhko too mujhse churaaye
KK: Chanda dekhe chanda,....
KK: Preet ke rang mein ranga hai tera udata aanchal
AB: Maine baandha hai isee mein ek diwana paagal
KK: Aanchal ki chhaya mein yeh paagal jiye mar jaaye
AB: Jiya bole piya,...
===
Harish Suvarna
What are the characteristics of Rabindra Sangeet?
To me, Songs like 'Megha Chaayi Aadhee Raat' , "Tere Mere Milan Ke',
'chukar mere man ko' are no different from other hindi film songs
like 'oh sajana barkha', 'Tu jo mere sur mein', 'chu lene do naazuk'.
--
Harish Suvarna
su...@mti.sgi.com
Malini
In article <5abs8v$m...@epx.cis.umn.edu>, subr...@cs.umn.edu says...
Small correction here. It should be Lata Mangeshkar.
Malini
Surajit A. Bose
In article <32C9D6...@mti.sgi.com>, Harish Suvarna <su...@mti.sgi.com>
wrote:
> What are the characteristics of Rabindra Sangeet?
>
> To me, Songs like 'Megha Chaayi Aadhee Raat' , "Tere Mere Milan Ke',
> 'chukar mere man ko' are no different from other hindi film songs
> like 'oh sajana barkha', 'Tu jo mere sur mein', 'chu lene do naazuk'.
Good question. What ARE the characteristics of Rabindra Sangeet? Tagore
composed such a variety of songs that it's tough to think of anything they
all have in common--besides Tagore, of course. Some are based on folk
music ("badal baul baajaaye re ektara"); others on classical ragas ("aji e
gandhavidhura samirane"); others seem to have a touch of Western music
("pran chaai naina na chaai"); others just seem to be pleasant romantic
listening ("shei bhalo, aamaarey naa-hai naa jaano").
Thematically too Rabindra Sangeet is very diverse. There are religious
songs, love songs, songs about nature and the seasons, patriotic songs,
songs that are unusual in their content, and songs written for specific
occasions. This provisional classification is Tagore's own: puujaa, prem,
prakriti, svadeshii, vichitra, aanuShThanik. Tagore's niece, Indira Devi
Chaudhurani, says this about the classification: "vaise sambhav hai, kai
baar hame.n aisaa lage ki ek hi giit anya ShreNii me.n bhi paD saktaa hai.
aur phir bhagvat-prem tathaa maanaviiya prem ke biich siimaa-rekhaa
khii.nchnaa kaThin bhi hai."
The wide variety of songs (in terms of both music and lyrics) that
Ravindra Sangeet presents is comparable, therefore, to the variety that
pertains in Hindi film music. Can we speak of a "characteristics of Hindi
film music"? IMHO, it would be difficult to do so coherently. Ditto with
Ravindra Sangeet.
There are certain matters of voice production and delivery that set
Ravindra Sangeet apart from, say, classical music. E.g., the music tends
toward glides (mee.nDs) rather than sharp movements from note to note;
it's considered a fault to pause, whether for breath or for effect, in the
middle of a lyrical/lexical unit, etc. (Ravindra Sangeet is very unlike
Hindustani classical music in the emphasis given to delivering the lyrics
gracefully.) But I'm not sure that these characteristics are really all
that important from the point of view of the adaptation of the songs to
Hindi film music. I mean, it's possible to speak of a Rabindra Sangeet
style of singing, but most of the adaptations don't try to reproduce this
characteristic style. So Harish, you're right; it's difficult to pin down
anything specific that separates "tere mere milan ki yeh raina" from "o
sajanaa," except that one uses Ravindra Sangeet and the other doesn't.
Which is difference enough, don't you think?
-SAB
Harish Suvarna
Surajit A. Bose wrote:
>
> Good question. What ARE the characteristics of Rabindra Sangeet? Tagore
> composed such a variety of songs that it's tough to think of anything they
> all have in common--besides Tagore, of course. Some are based on folk
> music ("badal baul baajaaye re ektara"); others on classical ragas ("aji e
> gandhavidhura samirane"); others seem to have a touch of Western music
> ("pran chaai naina na chaai"); others just seem to be pleasant romantic
> listening ("shei bhalo, aamaarey naa-hai naa jaano").
>
> Thematically too Rabindra Sangeet is very diverse. There are religious
> songs, love songs, songs about nature and the seasons, patriotic songs,
> songs that are unusual in their content, and songs written for specific
> occasions. This provisional classification is Tagore's own: puujaa, prem,
> prakriti, svadeshii, vichitra, aanuShThanik. Tagore's niece, Indira Devi
> Chaudhurani, says this about the classification: "vaise sambhav hai, kai
> baar hame.n aisaa lage ki ek hi giit anya ShreNii me.n bhi paD saktaa hai.
> aur phir bhagvat-prem tathaa maanaviiya prem ke biich siimaa-rekhaa
> khii.nchnaa kaThin bhi hai."
>
> The wide variety of songs (in terms of both music and lyrics) that
> Ravindra Sangeet presents is comparable, therefore, to the variety that
> pertains in Hindi film music. Can we speak of a "characteristics of Hindi
> film music"? IMHO, it would be difficult to do so coherently. Ditto with
> Ravindra Sangeet.
>
Thanks Surajit for a lengthy answer. The fourth paragraph (the one below)
gives me some answers/clues of Rabindra Sangeet Characteristics.
When we classified music into many types and we classified only after
identifying their musical characteristics.
When we said 'folk music', we were pointing to the 'dapli'
'taraana??' (I mean that instrument played/sold by Sandhya in
Do Ankhe Baraa Haath). Ramayya Vastavayya, Chalat Musafir (the
'hoy rama' sound in between).
When the Marathi people said 'Natya Sangeet', they must be able to
say how it is different from Marathi Film Songs.
When the Kannada people said 'Yaksha Gana', they must be able to tell
what it is.
Similarly we have 'thumris' 'drupad' in hindustani classical.
We can easily tell whether a piece of music is Carnatic/Hindustani.
In the same way, Rabindra Sangeet, so much known by that name, if
does'nt have any musical characteristics, it should just mean 'that music'
written/composed/created by Gurudev Thagore. It can not creep into
hindi films. But since almost a dozen songs are pointed out in this
thread, I am trying to find the 'pakad' of that sangeet. Ofcourse,
it is tough to catch the 'pakad' through news group postings.
But definitely some hints like the ones you mentioned below help a lot.
> There are certain matters of voice production and delivery that set
> Ravindra Sangeet apart from, say, classical music. E.g., the music tends
> toward glides (mee.nDs) rather than sharp movements from note to note;
> it's considered a fault to pause, whether for breath or for effect, in the
> middle of a lyrical/lexical unit, etc. (Ravindra Sangeet is very unlike
> Hindustani classical music in the emphasis given to delivering the lyrics
> gracefully.) But I'm not sure that these characteristics are really all
> that important from the point of view of the adaptation of the songs to
> Hindi film music. I mean, it's possible to speak of a Rabindra Sangeet
> style of singing, but most of the adaptations don't try to reproduce this
> characteristic style. So Harish, you're right; it's difficult to pin down
> anything specific that separates "tere mere milan ki yeh raina" from "o
> sajanaa," except that one uses Ravindra Sangeet and the other doesn't.
> Which is difference enough, don't you think?
>
> -SAB
--
Harish Suvarna
su...@mti.sgi.com