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Asha Bhosle: a veritable soprano.
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chocolate froggy
Jan 25, 2012, 2:15:00 PM1/25/12
to
Yesterday, I heard 'jo main hota ek toota taara' from 'chhupa rustam'
for the first time. At the end of the song, one hears Asha Bhosle do
an operatic sequence in the background while Kishore repeats the lines
of the mukhda. In that sequence, she hits the high C thrice. More than
a decade before that, in 'tu mi piaci cara' from 'bewaqoof', Asha
attempted a similar feat, but came off slightly strained and less-than-
accurate on the same note. High C, or C6 is the first note of the
sixth octave on a standard piano, and the defining note of the soprano
voice type.
Few singers have the capability to sing that high, and Asha, at least
in 'jo main hota', seems to be doing so reasonably comfortably (there
are a few high Bs too, including a stretched one at the very end). It
makes Asha's recorded vocal range well over two-and-a-half octaves (E3-
C6), which is remarkable. Also worth noting is how long Asha's voice
remained in shape. 'Bewaqoof' came in 1960, whereas 'chhupa rustam'
was released in 1973! (Incidentally, both had music by SD Burman.)
It would be interesting to know how the oft-touted "original" soprano
of Hindi film music, big sister Lata Mangeshkar fares in terms of
vocal extremes. She hit a couple of high Bs (a semitone below high C)
in the staccato sequence in the interludes of 'woh ek nigaah kya
mili'. She also has a couple of Bbs to her name. Did she ever record a
high C? Her lowest recorded note, AFAIK, is an F#3 (three semitones
above E).
These are a few instances of other Indian singers singing in the
soprano octave:
1. Vani Jairam in 'sagara sangamame' (C6)
2. S Janaki in 'shiva shiva ennada' (C#6)
3. Shreya Ghoshal in 'bhor bhaye' (C#6)
for the first time. At the end of the song, one hears Asha Bhosle do
an operatic sequence in the background while Kishore repeats the lines
of the mukhda. In that sequence, she hits the high C thrice. More than
a decade before that, in 'tu mi piaci cara' from 'bewaqoof', Asha
attempted a similar feat, but came off slightly strained and less-than-
accurate on the same note. High C, or C6 is the first note of the
sixth octave on a standard piano, and the defining note of the soprano
voice type.
Few singers have the capability to sing that high, and Asha, at least
in 'jo main hota', seems to be doing so reasonably comfortably (there
are a few high Bs too, including a stretched one at the very end). It
makes Asha's recorded vocal range well over two-and-a-half octaves (E3-
C6), which is remarkable. Also worth noting is how long Asha's voice
remained in shape. 'Bewaqoof' came in 1960, whereas 'chhupa rustam'
was released in 1973! (Incidentally, both had music by SD Burman.)
It would be interesting to know how the oft-touted "original" soprano
of Hindi film music, big sister Lata Mangeshkar fares in terms of
vocal extremes. She hit a couple of high Bs (a semitone below high C)
in the staccato sequence in the interludes of 'woh ek nigaah kya
mili'. She also has a couple of Bbs to her name. Did she ever record a
high C? Her lowest recorded note, AFAIK, is an F#3 (three semitones
above E).
These are a few instances of other Indian singers singing in the
soprano octave:
1. Vani Jairam in 'sagara sangamame' (C6)
2. S Janaki in 'shiva shiva ennada' (C#6)
3. Shreya Ghoshal in 'bhor bhaye' (C#6)
AR
Jan 25, 2012, 2:47:21 PM1/25/12
to
On Jan 25, 2:15 pm, chocolate froggy <chocolatefrog...@gmail.com>
wrote:
I have very little knowledge of western classical music notation,
hence was wondering: what is the highest and lowest note sung by Asha
in "meri jaan maine kaha" from The Train? I recall reading an
interview given by her son Anand, wherein he claims that one of the
notes she sang in this song went beyond the range of a keyboard.
>
> It would be interesting to know how the oft-touted "original" soprano
> of Hindi film music, big sister Lata Mangeshkar fares in terms of
> vocal extremes. She hit a couple of high Bs (a semitone below high C)
> in the staccato sequence in the interludes of 'woh ek nigaah kya
> mili'. She also has a couple of Bbs to her name. Did she ever record a
> high C?
>
I don't know. But can you mention which are the other songs by Lata
that you a referring to (i.e. which are those songs where she hits the
note Bb)?
>
> Her lowest recorded note, AFAIK, is an F#3 (three semitones
> above E).
>
Which song(s) are you referring to? She goes pretty low (and also
pretty high up) in the Marathi song "Malavoon taak deep" (I think
lower teevra Ma to upper Pa).
> These are a few instances of other Indian singers singing in the
> soprano octave:
>
> 1. Vani Jairam in 'sagara sangamame' (C6)
> 2. S Janaki in 'shiva shiva ennada' (C#6)
>
I love both these songs very, very, very much. Vani has (at least) one
more song where she hits an incredibly high pitch quite effortlessly -
"Happiest Moment" (Kannada film: Bilee Hendthi).
Aside: I had read a lot about Yesudas' song "shadajane paayal"
composed by Ravindra Jain for the unreleased Hindi film Tansen, where
he sings three full octaves (lowermost sa to uppermost sa). I recently
found this song on youtube. To say the least, I cringed upon listening
to it, because he sounded absolutely terrible at both those extremes.
There's little point in singing at such extremes if the net result is
going to be so bad. And he didn't sound really so good even in the
middle octave portions of that song either.
wrote:
> Yesterday, I heard 'jo main hota ek toota taara' from 'chhupa rustam'
> for the first time. At the end of the song, one hears Asha Bhosle do
> an operatic sequence in the background while Kishore repeats the lines
> of the mukhda. In that sequence, she hits the high C thrice. More than
> a decade before that, in 'tu mi piaci cara' from 'bewaqoof', Asha
> attempted a similar feat, but came off slightly strained and less-than-
> accurate on the same note. High C, or C6 is the first note of the
> sixth octave on a standard piano, and the defining note of the soprano
> voice type.
>
> Few singers have the capability to sing that high, and Asha, at least
> in 'jo main hota', seems to be doing so reasonably comfortably (there
> are a few high Bs too, including a stretched one at the very end). It
> makes Asha's recorded vocal range well over two-and-a-half octaves (E3-
> C6), which is remarkable. Also worth noting is how long Asha's voice
> remained in shape. 'Bewaqoof' came in 1960, whereas 'chhupa rustam'
> was released in 1973! (Incidentally, both had music by SD Burman.)
>
Thanks a lot for this interesting post!
> for the first time. At the end of the song, one hears Asha Bhosle do
> an operatic sequence in the background while Kishore repeats the lines
> of the mukhda. In that sequence, she hits the high C thrice. More than
> a decade before that, in 'tu mi piaci cara' from 'bewaqoof', Asha
> attempted a similar feat, but came off slightly strained and less-than-
> accurate on the same note. High C, or C6 is the first note of the
> sixth octave on a standard piano, and the defining note of the soprano
> voice type.
>
> Few singers have the capability to sing that high, and Asha, at least
> in 'jo main hota', seems to be doing so reasonably comfortably (there
> are a few high Bs too, including a stretched one at the very end). It
> makes Asha's recorded vocal range well over two-and-a-half octaves (E3-
> C6), which is remarkable. Also worth noting is how long Asha's voice
> remained in shape. 'Bewaqoof' came in 1960, whereas 'chhupa rustam'
> was released in 1973! (Incidentally, both had music by SD Burman.)
>
I have very little knowledge of western classical music notation,
hence was wondering: what is the highest and lowest note sung by Asha
in "meri jaan maine kaha" from The Train? I recall reading an
interview given by her son Anand, wherein he claims that one of the
notes she sang in this song went beyond the range of a keyboard.
>
> It would be interesting to know how the oft-touted "original" soprano
> of Hindi film music, big sister Lata Mangeshkar fares in terms of
> vocal extremes. She hit a couple of high Bs (a semitone below high C)
> in the staccato sequence in the interludes of 'woh ek nigaah kya
> mili'. She also has a couple of Bbs to her name. Did she ever record a
> high C?
>
that you a referring to (i.e. which are those songs where she hits the
note Bb)?
>
> Her lowest recorded note, AFAIK, is an F#3 (three semitones
> above E).
>
pretty high up) in the Marathi song "Malavoon taak deep" (I think
lower teevra Ma to upper Pa).
> These are a few instances of other Indian singers singing in the
> soprano octave:
>
> 1. Vani Jairam in 'sagara sangamame' (C6)
> 2. S Janaki in 'shiva shiva ennada' (C#6)
>
more song where she hits an incredibly high pitch quite effortlessly -
"Happiest Moment" (Kannada film: Bilee Hendthi).
Aside: I had read a lot about Yesudas' song "shadajane paayal"
composed by Ravindra Jain for the unreleased Hindi film Tansen, where
he sings three full octaves (lowermost sa to uppermost sa). I recently
found this song on youtube. To say the least, I cringed upon listening
to it, because he sounded absolutely terrible at both those extremes.
There's little point in singing at such extremes if the net result is
going to be so bad. And he didn't sound really so good even in the
middle octave portions of that song either.
Message has been deleted
Abhay Phadnis
Jan 26, 2012, 12:25:53 AM1/26/12
to
On Jan 26, 12:15 am, chocolate froggy <chocolatefrog...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> of Hindi film music, big sister Lata Mangeshkar fares in terms of
> vocal extremes. She hit a couple of high Bs (a semitone below high C)
> in the staccato sequence in the interludes of 'woh ek nigaah kya
> mili'. She also has a couple of Bbs to her name. Did she ever record a
> high C? Her lowest recorded note, AFAIK, is an F#3 (three semitones
> above E).
The highest I have heard Lata go (and delightfully so) is in two Salil
songs: "naam meraa nimmo" (Sapan Suhane) and "bansii kyo.N
gaaye" (Parakh). I don't know what notes she hits - would be worth
checking out.
Also, what are the notes she is singing when doing backing vocals in
the male version of "ai dil kahaa.N terii manzil" (Maya)? Salil again!
Warm regards,
Abhay
wrote:
> It would be interesting to know how the oft-touted "original" soprano
Can you cite some examples to illustrate the adjective "oft-touted"?
> of Hindi film music, big sister Lata Mangeshkar fares in terms of
> vocal extremes. She hit a couple of high Bs (a semitone below high C)
> in the staccato sequence in the interludes of 'woh ek nigaah kya
> mili'. She also has a couple of Bbs to her name. Did she ever record a
> above E).
The highest I have heard Lata go (and delightfully so) is in two Salil
songs: "naam meraa nimmo" (Sapan Suhane) and "bansii kyo.N
gaaye" (Parakh). I don't know what notes she hits - would be worth
checking out.
Also, what are the notes she is singing when doing backing vocals in
the male version of "ai dil kahaa.N terii manzil" (Maya)? Salil again!
Warm regards,
Abhay
chocolate froggy
Jan 26, 2012, 3:35:01 PM1/26/12
to
On Jan 26, 12:47 am, AR <aji...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks a lot for this interesting post!
>
> I have very little knowledge of western classical music notation,
> hence was wondering: what is the highest and lowest note sung by Asha
> in "meri jaan maine kaha" from The Train? I recall reading an
> interview given by her son Anand, wherein he claims that one of the
> notes she sang in this song went beyond the range of a keyboard.
Thanks for the kind words, AR! Western musical notations are really
> Thanks a lot for this interesting post!
>
> I have very little knowledge of western classical music notation,
> hence was wondering: what is the highest and lowest note sung by Asha
> in "meri jaan maine kaha" from The Train? I recall reading an
> interview given by her son Anand, wherein he claims that one of the
> notes she sang in this song went beyond the range of a keyboard.
very simple to understand. The octave goes like this: C C# D Eb E F F#
G G# A Bb B C(higher octave). On the keyboard, # (sharps) and b
(flats) are the black keys, while naturals are the whites. C
corresponds to the first white key. That’s all there is to it! :)
The highest note in 'meri jaan maine kaha' is B5 – a high note indeed,
but I’m sceptical of Anand’s off-the-keyboard claim (although her last
two attempts were quite 'off' otherwise.) The lowest note in this song
would be Eb4. To the best of my knowledge, her lowest recorded note is
in 'man aanand chhayo' from 'vijeta' – E3, a full octave below Eb4!
(Amazing song in terms of range: it goes from mandra gandhar to taar
pancham - a span of two octaves and three notes.)
> I don't know. But can you mention which are the other songs by Lata
> that you a referring to (i.e. which are those songs where she hits the
> note Bb)?
1. Aa ab laut chalen (jis desh mein ganga behti hai)
2. Aye dil kahaan teri manzil (maya)
3. Jhana-nana-nan baaje payaliya (rani roopmati)
4. Aaja bhanwar sooni dagar (rani roopmati)
5. Bharat ki sitaon ke (sampoorna ramayan) - both Lata and Asha have
*sung* till the highest note!
> Which song(s) are you referring to? She goes pretty low (and also
> pretty high up) in the Marathi song "Malavoon taak deep" (I think
> lower teevra Ma to upper Pa).
lower limit should be mandra dha, which makes the range exactly two
octaves (A3-G#5). The F#3 I was referring to was in 'do naina
matwaare' from her 'shradhanjali' album.
Lata's high notes in ‘malavoon taak deep’ are different from the high
notes we are discussing in that they are sung in chest voice (as
opposed to head voice/falsetto). Her preferred mode of sound
production was different from Asha’s and the difference was most
evident at high pitches where she never sounded airy or nasal. It is
extremely, extremely rare for a female voice to extend till high A in
the chest register (as in 'tere baadalon ki khair'). Asha's chest
voice topped off around F.
> I love both these songs very, very, very much. Vani has (at least) one
> more song where she hits an incredibly high pitch quite effortlessly -
> "Happiest Moment" (Kannada film: Bilee Hendthi).
voice is indeed very powerful. There is a C# too in the interlude
after the second antra. I couldn't decide whether it was an
instrument’s dhwani or Vani’s vani producing those notes, but it's
most probably the latter. What do you think?
> Aside: I had read a lot about Yesudas' song "shadajane paayal"
> composed by Ravindra Jain for the unreleased Hindi film Tansen, where
> he sings three full octaves (lowermost sa to uppermost sa). I recently
> found this song on youtube. To say the least, I cringed upon listening
> to it, because he sounded absolutely terrible at both those extremes.
> There's little point in singing at such extremes if the net result is
> going to be so bad. And he didn't sound really so good even in the
> middle octave portions of that song either.
The three octave range (D2-D5) is just a gimmick. D5 is horrifyingly
high even for gifted tenors, and Yesudas is hardly one. Mohd. Rafi
and Ghantasala in their prime were capable of producing solid Bs.
chocolate froggy
Jan 26, 2012, 3:40:57 PM1/26/12
to
> Can you cite some examples to illustrate the adjective "oft-touted"?
Well, many online sources attribute a soprano voice type to her.
Gaurav Kumar’s website is one of them. She has been referred to as a
soprano more than once on this newsgroup too.
> The highest I have heard Lata go (and delightfully so) is in two Salil
> songs: "naam meraa nimmo" (Sapan Suhane) and "bansii kyo.N
> gaaye" (Parakh). I don't know what notes she hits - would be worth
> checking out.
which is almost half an octave below her highest. The 'parakh' song
goes up to G#, but Lata is still in her chest register. These highs
are not comparable with the ones discussed earlier in the thread.
> Also, what are the notes she is singing when doing backing vocals in
> the male version of "ai dil kahaa.N terii manzil" (Maya)? Salil again!
AR
Jan 27, 2012, 10:20:24 PM1/27/12
to
On Jan 26, 3:35 pm, chocolate froggy <chocolatefrog...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> The highest note in 'meri jaan maine kaha' is B5 – a high note indeed,
> but I’m sceptical of Anand’s off-the-keyboard claim (although her last
> two attempts were quite 'off' otherwise.) The lowest note in this song
> would be Eb4. To the best of my knowledge, her lowest recorded note is
> in 'man aanand chhayo' from 'vijeta' – E3, a full octave below Eb4!
> (Amazing song in terms of range: it goes from mandra gandhar to taar
> pancham - a span of two octaves and three notes.)
>
Yes, it's amazing that she sang this song with a 2 octave + 3 notes
range at the age of 50!
I really don't understand the difference between chest voice, head
voice/falsetto so well. Can you throw some more light on this?
> > I love both these songs very, very, very much. Vani has (at least) one
> > more song where she hits an incredibly high pitch quite effortlessly -
> > "Happiest Moment" (Kannada film: Bilee Hendthi).
>
> There are a couple of sustained high B flat-s in the song. Her head
> voice is indeed very powerful. There is a C# too in the interlude
> after the second antra. I couldn't decide whether it was an
> instrument’s dhwani or Vani’s vani producing those notes, but it's
> most probably the latter. What do you think?
>
Can you tell me exactly which point (time instant) in the song you are
referring to? Let's consider the following clip on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYK_rBsoA6U
Vani Jairam has sung a few other songs with a very wide range,
including at least quite late in her career. One that comes to my mind
is Aanathi neeyara. I checked quickly on my keyboard - the song goes
from mandra Pa to upper Pa. It's amazing, even more so considering
that she was around 46-47 years of age when she recorded it (in
1992).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiqL55P7rFg
Some other high-pitched songs by Vani (though I haven't had the time
to work out the notes, and I don't think these songs hit C6)
- Aana kaana (the letters of the Tamil alphabet, composer: K S
Raghunathan)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COW9kiExoa8
-Aagaayam Mazhai (especially the stanza based on Hameer-kalyani/Kedar)
(composer: Veenai Chitti Babu)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az4vA5VRRtg
-Kelviyin Nayagane (in duet with B S Sasirekha) - especially listen to
5:40 - 5:50 (composer: M S Viswanathan)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ys9IuzHoW5U&feature=related
-Aayilam padithhe penne (Malayalam film Raasaleela, composed by Salil
Chaudhary)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDrV7mX9y5E
-Here is another example where Vani demonstrates a full three octave
range while giving comments to a contestant in a music competition.
The contestant Roopa was singing Vani's epic Tamil song "ezhu
swarangaLukkuL" when none other than Vani was the judge. See the clip
below from 7 minutes onwards. While giving some tips to Roopa, Vani
hits the taar Pancham and climbs upto the ati-taar shadja and down to
the mandra sa. Of course, she sounds distinctly uncomfortable beyond
the taar Pancham and below her middle shadja. But it's remarkable that
she is able to hit the taar Pancham at the age of 60+.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YzUA5iX3o8
( Vani's original rendition: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJGVHCMxYu0
)
wrote:
> On Jan 26, 12:47 am, AR <aji...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Thanks a lot for this interesting post!
>
> > I have very little knowledge of western classical music notation,
> > hence was wondering: what is the highest and lowest note sung by Asha
> > in "meri jaan maine kaha" from The Train? I recall reading an
> > interview given by her son Anand, wherein he claims that one of the
> > notes she sang in this song went beyond the range of a keyboard.
>
> Thanks for the kind words, AR! Western musical notations are really
> very simple to understand. The octave goes like this: C C# D Eb E F F#
> G G# A Bb B C(higher octave). On the keyboard, # (sharps) and b
> (flats) are the black keys, while naturals are the whites. C
> corresponds to the first white key. That’s all there is to it! :)
>
Thanks!
>
> > Thanks a lot for this interesting post!
>
> > I have very little knowledge of western classical music notation,
> > hence was wondering: what is the highest and lowest note sung by Asha
> > in "meri jaan maine kaha" from The Train? I recall reading an
> > interview given by her son Anand, wherein he claims that one of the
> > notes she sang in this song went beyond the range of a keyboard.
>
> Thanks for the kind words, AR! Western musical notations are really
> very simple to understand. The octave goes like this: C C# D Eb E F F#
> G G# A Bb B C(higher octave). On the keyboard, # (sharps) and b
> (flats) are the black keys, while naturals are the whites. C
> corresponds to the first white key. That’s all there is to it! :)
>
> The highest note in 'meri jaan maine kaha' is B5 – a high note indeed,
> but I’m sceptical of Anand’s off-the-keyboard claim (although her last
> two attempts were quite 'off' otherwise.) The lowest note in this song
> would be Eb4. To the best of my knowledge, her lowest recorded note is
> in 'man aanand chhayo' from 'vijeta' – E3, a full octave below Eb4!
> (Amazing song in terms of range: it goes from mandra gandhar to taar
> pancham - a span of two octaves and three notes.)
>
range at the age of 50!
voice/falsetto so well. Can you throw some more light on this?
> > I love both these songs very, very, very much. Vani has (at least) one
> > more song where she hits an incredibly high pitch quite effortlessly -
> > "Happiest Moment" (Kannada film: Bilee Hendthi).
>
> There are a couple of sustained high B flat-s in the song. Her head
> voice is indeed very powerful. There is a C# too in the interlude
> after the second antra. I couldn't decide whether it was an
> instrument’s dhwani or Vani’s vani producing those notes, but it's
> most probably the latter. What do you think?
>
referring to? Let's consider the following clip on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYK_rBsoA6U
Vani Jairam has sung a few other songs with a very wide range,
including at least quite late in her career. One that comes to my mind
is Aanathi neeyara. I checked quickly on my keyboard - the song goes
from mandra Pa to upper Pa. It's amazing, even more so considering
that she was around 46-47 years of age when she recorded it (in
1992).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiqL55P7rFg
Some other high-pitched songs by Vani (though I haven't had the time
to work out the notes, and I don't think these songs hit C6)
- Aana kaana (the letters of the Tamil alphabet, composer: K S
Raghunathan)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COW9kiExoa8
-Aagaayam Mazhai (especially the stanza based on Hameer-kalyani/Kedar)
(composer: Veenai Chitti Babu)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az4vA5VRRtg
-Kelviyin Nayagane (in duet with B S Sasirekha) - especially listen to
5:40 - 5:50 (composer: M S Viswanathan)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ys9IuzHoW5U&feature=related
-Aayilam padithhe penne (Malayalam film Raasaleela, composed by Salil
Chaudhary)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDrV7mX9y5E
-Here is another example where Vani demonstrates a full three octave
range while giving comments to a contestant in a music competition.
The contestant Roopa was singing Vani's epic Tamil song "ezhu
swarangaLukkuL" when none other than Vani was the judge. See the clip
below from 7 minutes onwards. While giving some tips to Roopa, Vani
hits the taar Pancham and climbs upto the ati-taar shadja and down to
the mandra sa. Of course, she sounds distinctly uncomfortable beyond
the taar Pancham and below her middle shadja. But it's remarkable that
she is able to hit the taar Pancham at the age of 60+.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YzUA5iX3o8
( Vani's original rendition: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJGVHCMxYu0
)
chocolate froggy
Feb 2, 2012, 12:34:51 PM2/2/12
to
On Jan 28, 8:20 am, AR <aji...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I really don't understand the difference between chest voice, head
> voice/falsetto so well. Can you throw some more light on this?
I’m no expert at this but I’ll share what I know. Chest voice
> I really don't understand the difference between chest voice, head
> voice/falsetto so well. Can you throw some more light on this?
resonates in one’s chest and is lower in frequency. Head voice
resonates in one’s head and is higher in frequency. Apart from the
physiological difference, the tones produced are distinct. Chest voice
is strong and full while head voice is lighter and somewhat hooty. The
distinction is easier to spot in male singers. In ‘dil ka dard
niraala’, Mohd. Rafi sang the ultimate note (F#) in head voice rather
than “belting it out” in chest voice like he usually does. Another
example of Rafi singing in head voice is ‘dilruba dil pe tu’ from ‘raj
kumar’.
Chest voice and head voice are not disjoint from each other; the
latter is very much part of the main body of the voice (modal
register). The overlapping region (of low head voice or high chest
voice) is generally referred to as the “mixed register”. With proper
voice training, it is possible to achieve seamless transition into
head voice, and consistency of tone. An extreme case is that of an
operatic soprano, whose head voice is not only stronger, but richer in
tone than the chest voice!
A singer has the choice of singing his/her “mixed register” either as
high chest notes or low head notes. Asha’s singing technique more
often than not employs the latter approach. You may have noticed the
“heady” and slightly nasal quality of her voice (especially at high
pitches) in ‘tere khayaalon mein hum’ or ‘arre ja re hat natkhat’.
Compare that with ‘piya tu ab to aaja’ which falls entirely within her
chest voice range (D4-E5).
Falsetto is even higher than the head voice. It is the lightest form
of vocal production which has limited strength and tone. The sound is
airy and susceptible to breaks and jumps because the vocal chords are
not completely closed. Also, it is not included in the modal vocal
register (which is why falsetto is disallowed in classical music while
head voice is not).
.
For example, at the end of ‘jo main hota ek toota taara’, Asha begins:
B Eb F# (Eb E F# B F#)x3 Eb E Eb
Notice the change in texture when she jumps from F# to B – head voice
(firm and clean) to falsetto (breathy and ringing). You may want to
consider these examples as well:
Head voice:
1. Tarun aahe ratra ajuni (high A)
2. Dil na kahin lagana (high A)
3. Sakhi ri sun bole (high A)
4. Sooni sooni saans ki (high Bb)
5. Hum raamchandra ki (high Bb)
Falsetto:
1. Aa dekhen zara (high Bb)
2. Daiyya ye main (high Bb)
3. O meri jaan (high B)
4. Nadi naare na jaao (high B)
5. Tu mi piaci cara (high C)
Cross-register transitions are noticeable in men due to stark tonal
differences. In females, the transitions are far more subtle. Well
trained voices can fade in and out of different registers smoothly.
Among Indian singers, Asha, Vani and S Janaki had powerful and
virtuosic head registers.
Lata, Suman and Shamshad, on the other hand, preferred the uncommon,
open-throated chest voice approach to high notes.
> Can you tell me exactly which point (time instant) in the song you are
> referring to? Let's consider the following clip on youtube:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYK_rBsoA6U
> Vani Jairam has sung a few other songs with a very wide range,
> including at least quite late in her career. One that comes to my mind
> is Aanathi neeyara. I checked quickly on my keyboard - the song goes
> from mandra Pa to upper Pa. It's amazing, even more so considering
> that she was around 46-47 years of age when she recorded it (in
> 1992).
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiqL55P7rFg
if I'm wrong, but isn't she teevra madhyam'ish at 0:34? Also, I think
she sharpened quite a few panchams. For example, the one at 5:56. :/
> - Aana kaana (the letters of the Tamil alphabet, composer: K S
> Raghunathan)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COW9kiExoa8
> -Aagaayam Mazhai (especially the stanza based on Hameer-kalyani/Kedar)
> (composer: Veenai Chitti Babu)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az4vA5VRRtg
> -Kelviyin Nayagane (in duet with B S Sasirekha) - especially listen to
> 5:40 - 5:50 (composer: M S Viswanathan)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ys9IuzHoW5U&feature=related
*singing* at high pitch, methinks.
> -Here is another example where Vani demonstrates a full three octave
> range while giving comments to a contestant in a music competition.
> The contestant Roopa was singing Vani's epic Tamil song "ezhu
> swarangaLukkuL" when none other than Vani was the judge. See the clip
> below from 7 minutes onwards. While giving some tips to Roopa, Vani
> hits the taar Pancham and climbs upto the ati-taar shadja and down to
> the mandra sa. Of course, she sounds distinctly uncomfortable beyond
> the taar Pancham and below her middle shadja. But it's remarkable that
> she is able to hit the taar Pancham at the age of 60+.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YzUA5iX3o8
> ( Vani's original rendition:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJGVHCMxYu0
(B2- B5) is actually quite remarkable!
Shakes
Feb 4, 2012, 3:40:34 PM2/4/12
to
On Feb 2, 9:34 am, chocolate froggy <chocolatefrog...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Hi,
Thanks for this thread. It was very informative. I was curious if the
same analysis can be done on some of the male singers - Rafi, Kishore,
Mukesh etc. It would be very informative to just get a comparision on
their singing styles, range of their voices etc.
Shekar.
wrote:
Thanks for this thread. It was very informative. I was curious if the
same analysis can be done on some of the male singers - Rafi, Kishore,
Mukesh etc. It would be very informative to just get a comparision on
their singing styles, range of their voices etc.
Shekar.
AR
Feb 11, 2012, 7:11:39 PM2/11/12
to
On Feb 2, 12:34 pm, chocolate froggy <chocolatefrog...@gmail.com>
wrote:
really enjoyed this thread!
first time. The high-pitched rendering of the two sisters is simply
impeccable! I would count this as one amongst their best songs on the
grounds of technical brilliance. Lata too sounds absolutely
comfortable right through. When she sang this so comfortably, I wonder
what went wrong while recording "dil tera deewana hai sanam" at around
the same time.
>
> > Can you tell me exactly which point (time instant) in the song you are
> > referring to? Let's consider the following clip on youtube:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYK_rBsoA6U
>
> From 2:52 – 2:57. Although now it sounds like an instrument to me. :P
>
There's some confusion here. If you are referring to 2:52 to 2:57, it
is clearly an instrumental piece (and doesn't sound so high-pitched).
If you refer to 2:40, it is certainly her voice.
> > Vani Jairam has sung a few other songs with a very wide range,
> > including at least quite late in her career. One that comes to my mind
> > is Aanathi neeyara. I checked quickly on my keyboard - the song goes
> > from mandra Pa to upper Pa. It's amazing, even more so considering
> > that she was around 46-47 years of age when she recorded it (in
> > 1992).
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiqL55P7rFg
>
> I like this song a lot - one hell of a roller coaster ride! Correct me
> if I'm wrong, but isn't she teevra madhyam'ish at 0:34? Also, I think
> she sharpened quite a few panchams. For example, the one at 5:56. :/
>
At 0:34, she seems to be at the lower Pa. I can't discern the teevra
Ma, but I am absolutely no music expert, so I could be wrong.
I didn't follow what you mean by "sharpened" quite a few Panchams (I
checked 5:56) - do you mean to say that she hit the Komal Dha? If so,
wouldn't that fall into the "apaswaram" domain? Amritavarshini (on
which this song is based) is a pentatonic raga that uses Sa, Ga
(shuddha), Ma (teevra), Pa and Ni (shuddha).
> She goes up to G#. Hitting a high note in a taan/alap is easier than
> *singing* at high pitch, methinks.
>
I would tend to agree.
wrote:
> On Jan 28, 8:20 am, AR <aji...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I really don't understand the difference between chest voice, head
> > voice/falsetto so well. Can you throw some more light on this?
>
> I’m no expert at this but I’ll share what I know. Chest voice
> resonates in one’s chest and is lower in frequency. Head voice
> resonates in one’s head and is higher in frequency. Apart from the
> physiological difference, the tones produced are distinct. Chest voice
> is strong and full while head voice is lighter and somewhat hooty. The
> distinction is easier to spot in male singers. In ‘dil ka dard
> niraala’, Mohd. Rafi sang the ultimate note (F#) in head voice rather
> than “belting it out” in chest voice like he usually does. Another
> example of Rafi singing in head voice is ‘dilruba dil pe tu’ from ‘raj
> kumar’.
>
Thank you so much for such a beautiful explanation. I have really,
>
> > I really don't understand the difference between chest voice, head
> > voice/falsetto so well. Can you throw some more light on this?
>
> I’m no expert at this but I’ll share what I know. Chest voice
> resonates in one’s chest and is lower in frequency. Head voice
> resonates in one’s head and is higher in frequency. Apart from the
> physiological difference, the tones produced are distinct. Chest voice
> is strong and full while head voice is lighter and somewhat hooty. The
> distinction is easier to spot in male singers. In ‘dil ka dard
> niraala’, Mohd. Rafi sang the ultimate note (F#) in head voice rather
> than “belting it out” in chest voice like he usually does. Another
> example of Rafi singing in head voice is ‘dilruba dil pe tu’ from ‘raj
> kumar’.
>
really enjoyed this thread!
> 5. Hum raamchandra ki (high Bb)
I listened to the last one (from Sampoorna Ramayan) right now for the
first time. The high-pitched rendering of the two sisters is simply
impeccable! I would count this as one amongst their best songs on the
grounds of technical brilliance. Lata too sounds absolutely
comfortable right through. When she sang this so comfortably, I wonder
what went wrong while recording "dil tera deewana hai sanam" at around
the same time.
>
> > Can you tell me exactly which point (time instant) in the song you are
> > referring to? Let's consider the following clip on youtube:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYK_rBsoA6U
>
> From 2:52 – 2:57. Although now it sounds like an instrument to me. :P
>
is clearly an instrumental piece (and doesn't sound so high-pitched).
If you refer to 2:40, it is certainly her voice.
> > Vani Jairam has sung a few other songs with a very wide range,
> > including at least quite late in her career. One that comes to my mind
> > is Aanathi neeyara. I checked quickly on my keyboard - the song goes
> > from mandra Pa to upper Pa. It's amazing, even more so considering
> > that she was around 46-47 years of age when she recorded it (in
> > 1992).
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiqL55P7rFg
>
> I like this song a lot - one hell of a roller coaster ride! Correct me
> if I'm wrong, but isn't she teevra madhyam'ish at 0:34? Also, I think
> she sharpened quite a few panchams. For example, the one at 5:56. :/
>
Ma, but I am absolutely no music expert, so I could be wrong.
I didn't follow what you mean by "sharpened" quite a few Panchams (I
checked 5:56) - do you mean to say that she hit the Komal Dha? If so,
wouldn't that fall into the "apaswaram" domain? Amritavarshini (on
which this song is based) is a pentatonic raga that uses Sa, Ga
(shuddha), Ma (teevra), Pa and Ni (shuddha).
> She goes up to G#. Hitting a high note in a taan/alap is easier than
> *singing* at high pitch, methinks.
>
chocolate froggy
Feb 13, 2012, 5:22:45 AM2/13/12
to
On Feb 12, 5:11 am, AR <aji...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thank you so much for such a beautiful explanation. I have really,
> really enjoyed this thread!
You’re generous with compliments, AR! It’s always nice to interact
> Thank you so much for such a beautiful explanation. I have really,
> really enjoyed this thread!
with people like you. ;)
> I listened to the last one (from Sampoorna Ramayan) right now for the
> first time. The high-pitched rendering of the two sisters is simply
> impeccable! I would count this as one amongst their best songs on the
> grounds of technical brilliance.
though I’m not a fan of the quality of Asha’s voice above high F, who
else could have pulled off such a virtuosic performance with Lata in
the lead? The song goes pretty low as well – Bb3 to Bb5 – full two
octaves!
> When she sang this so comfortably, I wonder
> what went wrong while recording "dil tera deewana hai sanam" at around
> the same time.
deewaana’ is an F, which sounds puny in front of the highs in ‘hum
ramchandra ki’.
> > From 2:52 – 2:57. Although now it sounds like an instrument to me. :P
>
> There's some confusion here. If you are referring to 2:52 to 2:57, it
> is clearly an instrumental piece (and doesn't sound so high-pitched).
> If you refer to 2:40, it is certainly her voice.
> At 0:34, she seems to be at the lower Pa. I can't discern the teevra
> Ma, but I am absolutely no music expert, so I could be wrong.
> I didn't follow what you mean by "sharpened" quite a few Panchams (I
> checked 5:56) - do you mean to say that she hit the Komal Dha? If so,
> wouldn't that fall into the "apaswaram" domain? Amritavarshini (on
> which this song is based) is a pentatonic raga that uses Sa, Ga
> (shuddha), Ma (teevra), Pa and Ni (shuddha).
landed a little higher than intended but not high enough to be nearer
to komal Dha. The lower Pa is more problematic. It appears to be
closer to teevra Ma (G, when it should be G#. The Sa is set at C#,
right?)
chocolate froggy
Feb 13, 2012, 6:15:49 AM2/13/12
to
On Feb 5, 1:40 am, Shakes <kvcsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Thanks for this thread. It was very informative. I was curious if the
> same analysis can be done on some of the male singers - Rafi, Kishore,
> Mukesh etc. It would be very informative to just get a comparision on
> their singing styles, range of their voices etc.
>
> Shekar.
Hi Shekhar.
> Hi,
>
> Thanks for this thread. It was very informative. I was curious if the
> same analysis can be done on some of the male singers - Rafi, Kishore,
> Mukesh etc. It would be very informative to just get a comparision on
> their singing styles, range of their voices etc.
>
> Shekar.
Certainly, the same analysis can be extended to male singers, but not
before noting the following:
1. The absolute frequency of a female voice is about twice the
absolute frequency of a male voice. Therefore, when Lata and Rafi are
singing together, Rafi is singing the (lower) octave equivalent of
what Lata is singing.
2. While male singers can (and do) employ head voice to sing high
notes, in the context of playback singing, the loss of “masculinity”
that accompanies transition into head voice is probably the reason
most singers prefer to “belt out” their mixed register as high chest
notes. While comparing voice ranges of male singers, therefore, it
makes sense to consider only their chest voice.
3. Finding the range of a voice and classifying a voice as being of a
certain type (depending upon vocal range) are two completely different
exercises. The former involves finding the highest and lowest note
produced by the voice while the latter involves finding the most
comfortable range, or tessitura of the voice. For example, a soprano
and a mezzo-soprano may have similar vocal range, but the former will
have a higher tessitura with a stronger head register.
4. Male voices are classified into four types: tenor (C3 - C5),
baritone (F2 – F4) and bass (E2 – E4).
Let’s start at the bottom of the list. Basses are difficult to come
by. Can’t think of any as far as Hindi films are concerned. KL Saigal
came close. He went down to (I think) E2 in ‘do naina matwaare’, and
he was comfortable alright.
Baritone is the most common voice type. All the leading playback
singers – Rafi, Kishore, Talat, Mukesh et al – were baritones with
varying tessituras. I am familiar with Rafi’s, and to some extent,
Kishore’s output, so I’ll talk about them a little.
Rafi was a high baritone. Many of his songs go as high as A4, some
even up to B4! For example, ‘dole re dole re praan’ and ‘dekhi zamaane
ki yaari’ (the highest note is in head voice, though). The lowest I
can recall is ‘tune mera yaar’ in which he went down to Bb2
(incidentally, in the same song, he also attempted to hit Bb4 two
octaves above Bb2, but cracked on it!)
Kishore’s highest note should be around F#4 – ‘beqaraar dil tu’ or
‘koi hota jisko apna’. In the second song, he also goes down to A2
(which makes his recorded range over one and a half octave). He
deployed his falsetto voice to sing in the female range in ‘aake
seedhi lagi', going as high as G#5 - more than an octave above his
highest chest note! I think the tonic was C# for that song, and on
that scale, G#5 would be his *ati-taar* pancham (whereas it would have
been taar pancham for Lata).
Manna Dey was also a high baritone. His highest recorded note should
be Bb4 - 'ketaki gulaab juhi', 'ek ritu aaye' and 'ud ja bhanwar'. In
the third song, he also goes down to Bb2 (I think), which makes his
recorded range over two octaves.
Coming to the highest voice type - tenor - I can only think of Nusrat
Fateh Ali Khan at the moment. He routinely did C5 in chest voice, and
I've heard him go up to D5, which is insanely high! Oh, his nephew,
Rahat has an extremely high range too. There are several B4's and even
C#5's in 'ajj din chadeya'.
vijay...@my-deja.com
Feb 13, 2012, 7:12:24 AM2/13/12
to
On Feb 13, 4:15 pm, chocolate froggy <chocolatefrog...@gmail.com>
wrote:
your day even better. Fascinating read for me.
>
> Rafi was a high baritone. Many of his songs go as high as A4, some
> even up to B4! For example, ‘dole re dole re praan’ and ‘dekhi zamaane
> ki yaari’ (the highest note is in head voice, though). The lowest I
> can recall is ‘tune mera yaar’ in which he went down to Bb2
> (incidentally, in the same song, he also attempted to hit Bb4 two
> octaves above Bb2, but cracked on it!)
>
Are you referring to the end of the line which goes
"nahii.n to aa ke mujhii ko phir is jahaa.N se uThaa"?
There was a discussion on this on RMIM before which suggested that
this was a fault in the recording rather than the singer's.
Vijay
wrote:
> On Feb 5, 1:40 am, Shakes <kvcsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
>
> > Thanks for this thread. It was very informative. I was curious if the
> > same analysis can be done on some of the male singers - Rafi, Kishore,
> > Mukesh etc. It would be very informative to just get a comparision on
> > their singing styles, range of their voices etc.
>
> > Shekar.
>
> Hi Shekhar.
>
> Certainly, the same analysis can be extended to male singers, but not
> before noting the following:
>
I can add my compliments to the others in this thread to make
>
> > Hi,
>
> > Thanks for this thread. It was very informative. I was curious if the
> > same analysis can be done on some of the male singers - Rafi, Kishore,
> > Mukesh etc. It would be very informative to just get a comparision on
> > their singing styles, range of their voices etc.
>
> > Shekar.
>
> Hi Shekhar.
>
> Certainly, the same analysis can be extended to male singers, but not
> before noting the following:
>
your day even better. Fascinating read for me.
>
> Rafi was a high baritone. Many of his songs go as high as A4, some
> even up to B4! For example, ‘dole re dole re praan’ and ‘dekhi zamaane
> ki yaari’ (the highest note is in head voice, though). The lowest I
> can recall is ‘tune mera yaar’ in which he went down to Bb2
> (incidentally, in the same song, he also attempted to hit Bb4 two
> octaves above Bb2, but cracked on it!)
>
"nahii.n to aa ke mujhii ko phir is jahaa.N se uThaa"?
There was a discussion on this on RMIM before which suggested that
this was a fault in the recording rather than the singer's.
Vijay
Shakes
Feb 13, 2012, 5:28:13 PM2/13/12
to
On Feb 13, 3:15 am, chocolate froggy <chocolatefrog...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Thanks for the inputs. Really informative to me.
> Rafi was a high baritone. Many of his songs go as high as A4, some
> even up to B4! For example, ‘dole re dole re praan’ and ‘dekhi zamaane
> ki yaari’ (the highest note is in head voice, though). The lowest I
> can recall is ‘tune mera yaar’ in which he went down to Bb2
> (incidentally, in the same song, he also attempted to hit Bb4 two
> octaves above Bb2, but cracked on it!)
Does Rafi go higher in "Mohabbat Zinda Rehti Hai" towards the end in
the "Chali aaa" part, or in "Mohabbat Zindabad" from "Mughal-E-Azam" ?
Though, IMO, he stretched it to the point where I felt he was
shouting.
>
> Kishore’s highest note should be around F#4 – ‘beqaraar dil tu’ or
> ‘koi hota jisko apna’. In the second song, he also goes down to A2
> (which makes his recorded range over one and a half octave). He
> deployed his falsetto voice to sing in the female range in ‘aake
> seedhi lagi', going as high as G#5 - more than an octave above his
> highest chest note! I think the tonic was C# for that song, and on
> that scale, G#5 would be his *ati-taar* pancham (whereas it would have
> been taar pancham for Lata).
>
The maximum range (using the chest voice only) I heard Kishore
traverse in one song is probably in "Koi Humdum Na Rahaa". Does it
concur with your measurements ? I think he went from mandra pancham to
taar gandhar.
How about "Mere Naina Saawan Bhadon" or "Ek Hasina Thi (Karz)" (not
for range, but for maximum scale reached).
-Shekhar.
wrote:
> Rafi was a high baritone. Many of his songs go as high as A4, some
> even up to B4! For example, ‘dole re dole re praan’ and ‘dekhi zamaane
> ki yaari’ (the highest note is in head voice, though). The lowest I
> can recall is ‘tune mera yaar’ in which he went down to Bb2
> (incidentally, in the same song, he also attempted to hit Bb4 two
> octaves above Bb2, but cracked on it!)
the "Chali aaa" part, or in "Mohabbat Zindabad" from "Mughal-E-Azam" ?
Though, IMO, he stretched it to the point where I felt he was
shouting.
>
> Kishore’s highest note should be around F#4 – ‘beqaraar dil tu’ or
> ‘koi hota jisko apna’. In the second song, he also goes down to A2
> (which makes his recorded range over one and a half octave). He
> deployed his falsetto voice to sing in the female range in ‘aake
> seedhi lagi', going as high as G#5 - more than an octave above his
> highest chest note! I think the tonic was C# for that song, and on
> that scale, G#5 would be his *ati-taar* pancham (whereas it would have
> been taar pancham for Lata).
>
traverse in one song is probably in "Koi Humdum Na Rahaa". Does it
concur with your measurements ? I think he went from mandra pancham to
taar gandhar.
How about "Mere Naina Saawan Bhadon" or "Ek Hasina Thi (Karz)" (not
for range, but for maximum scale reached).
-Shekhar.
chocolate froggy
Feb 14, 2012, 11:05:24 AM2/14/12
to
On Feb 13, 5:12 pm, "vijaykum...@my-deja.com" <vijaykum...@my-
F# Bb G# F# F. The "distortion" happens when he tries to negotiate the
jump from F# to Bb. Given the high pitch and wide leap, I would tend
to think it's not unusual for his voice to crack. Besides, such
localisation of a recording error seems implausible to me, to be
honest. :/
deja.com> wrote:
> Are you referring to the end of the line which goes
> "nahii.n to aa ke mujhii ko phir is jahaa.N se uThaa"?
>
> There was a discussion on this on RMIM before which suggested that
> this was a fault in the recording rather than the singer's.
What sort of fault in recording? At that point, Rafi is singing: G# F
> Are you referring to the end of the line which goes
> "nahii.n to aa ke mujhii ko phir is jahaa.N se uThaa"?
>
> There was a discussion on this on RMIM before which suggested that
> this was a fault in the recording rather than the singer's.
F# Bb G# F# F. The "distortion" happens when he tries to negotiate the
jump from F# to Bb. Given the high pitch and wide leap, I would tend
to think it's not unusual for his voice to crack. Besides, such
localisation of a recording error seems implausible to me, to be
honest. :/
chocolate froggy
Feb 14, 2012, 12:21:03 PM2/14/12
to
On Feb 14, 3:28 am, Shakes <kvcsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Does Rafi go higher in "Mohabbat Zinda Rehti Hai" towards the end in
> the "Chali aaa" part, or in "Mohabbat Zindabad" from "Mughal-E-Azam" ?
> Though, IMO, he stretched it to the point where I felt he was
> shouting.
The 'chali aa' part in 'mohabbat zinda rehti' is located at G#. In
> Does Rafi go higher in "Mohabbat Zinda Rehti Hai" towards the end in
> the "Chali aaa" part, or in "Mohabbat Zindabad" from "Mughal-E-Azam" ?
> Though, IMO, he stretched it to the point where I felt he was
> shouting.
'aye mohabbat zindabad', Rafi goes up to Bb towards the end. For
example, 'insaan kahaan' goes, roughly: Eb F Bb G# Bb G#.
Now, G# is pretty high. Any baritone would sound shouty at G#, as does
Rafi. Bb is two semitones above G# - strictly tenor territory.
> The maximum range (using the chest voice only) I heard Kishore
> traverse in one song is probably in "Koi Humdum Na Rahaa". Does it
> concur with your measurements ? I think he went from mandra pancham to
> taar gandhar.
> How about "Mere Naina Saawan Bhadon" or "Ek Hasina Thi (Karz)" (not
> for range, but for maximum scale reached).
007s...@gmail.com
Mar 9, 2013, 11:24:05 AM3/9/13
to
I think in tere badlon ki khair lata does sing high notes in her pure head voice. The reason for her so wide range was she was able to mix her chest voice and head voice such that it will not sound harsh at lower notes and blend well with her head voice.
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