RDB, other greats and critics
Abhijit
topics in RMIM. Here is why I think.
Madan Mohan, S-J, SDB, SalilC, Roshan, Hemant, Naushad, OPN, et al
dominated the 50-60s music and created a variety of gems in an
environment of healthy competition.
Their quality deteriorated during late 60s (everyone has a capacity or
limit I believe).
They almost stopped working after early seventies.
RDB's phenomenal rise began in early 70s.
While I consider the RDB-dominated era as a continuation of the so
called Golden Era because of its quality (well, IMHO he raised the
standards of HFM after the slump of late 60s), to many fixed-to-MD
music lovers, this was an end of the era (obviously becuase of near-
end of career of their favoured MD). I remember Naushad's lament on
how music declined since the beginning of 70s which I can clearly
correlate with his stopping work.
Why do people choose RDB to criticise? Simple. Because RDB's
compositions stood the test of time and his more than 30 years old
works are still being hailed by old and young alike. Criticising a
popular/great name brings more attention. Who would worry criticising
L-P for example who failed the test of time or say Sonic Omi whose
contribution is hardly worth noting?
I for one can consume RDB as much as I can any of the MDs of the
Golden Era based on quality of individual compositions. I hate to
compare, but to me, Prince is rubbish compared to say Naukar, Funtoosh
is inferior to Lakhon Me Ek, Parwana stands nowhere near Jurmana,
Bheegi Raat isn't as much value for money as Khushboo, Padosan beats
Half Ticket any day, just to name a few. And mind you, the movies I
quoted are hardly considered as RDB's great works. I will have to work
overtime to find other MD's equivalents of Amar Prem. And who could
have produced a Ghar with Lata's deteriorating voice at disposal?
naniwadekar
>
> Why do people choose [a great artist] to criticise? Simple.
> Because ... Criticising a popular/great name brings
> more attention.
>
Nonsense. By this criterion, people would have formed
a long queue in 1950s to criticise Lata.
Today's young still do know Lata but tomorrow's young will
not know anything about her. I was talking to a friend, born
1992, in 2005 or 2006. I asked whether he had heard about
Asha Bhosle? He had not. Lata Mangeshkar? He had.
I asked him to check with his elder sister, born 1987.
Thanks to her greater experience of the world, she had
heard about Asha. She asked me whether she was correct
in believing that Asha was Lata's sister. If a person born in
2002 is asked about Lata in 2015, there is good chance he
will not know about her. I know several people born in 1960s
and 1970s who have only vaguely heard about Salil or
Jaidev. It feels nice to say things like 'stood the test of
time' but the melancholy truth is that people who think
1970s music was good are a bunch of idiots, and, thanks
to them, things which should stand the test of time (like
Indian Classical Music and 'singing Bhimsen Joshi') is
failing to stand it (viz, the test of time). I think Hinduism
has a lot to be ashamed of in terms of what its adherents
are doing music-wise. I wonder whether Islam bans music
because it saw more clearly than any other religion that
human beings will inevitably use music as a tool to
cheapen themselves. If that is the reason, Islam can point
to last 30-40 years in India as a justification for its attitude
to music. Hinduism can point to several centuries as *its*
justification. One still gets to hear fine music in church, but
Christianity has at least as much to be ashamed of as
Hinduism in terms of how its peoples have cheapened music
in the last century. I had read a news item that the current
pope is planning somethign to do about the declining quality
of music. It is doubtful to what extent he can halt the decline
but at least he is trying; I read something about it recently.
I should have saved the link to the news item I am thinking
about. It did cheer me up a little.
- dn
rg_ma...@hotmail.com
I had been thinking about the issue of "staning the test of time' for
quite sometime, and Shri Naniwadekar just mentioned it. I too think
that it is premature to declare that the music of certen era has stood
the test of time without actually getting out of the era completly
before stating that. I elaborate:
I am more addicted to the music of 50's & 60's that I heard as a
child, rather than of 70's that I heard as a teenager & youth. Most of
my friends liked RDB, LP of 70's. This can be attributed to my
personal choise. However, much later I started appriciating the 70's
music as well, perticularly RDB's. This maybe due to the fall of HFM
in 80's. However, I realise that from 90s, no tunes of HFM catch my
memory enough for long retention.
Now, since I play lot of Salil Choudhary, OPN, MM and other old MDs,
my 13 year old daughter also has liking for those tunes while she also
likes Shakeera and Christine Aleguira and good songs from recent Hindi
films. She even remebers those old songs. This is because she is
getting to listen both the golden era and the new era music.
Taking this as an example, I feel that as long as one gets to listen
to any good piece of music, one would appriciate it, but liking and
retaining in memory comes from several other factors, such how often
you hear it and if it links you to with your young age and fond
memories. If people of my age group is large at present, one can not
say that the music of 50's & 60's has seen the test of time. Our
number would reduce with time and survivers would be treating the HFM
of 70's, 80's (probably not) and 90's as Golden era music.
Only, if the new generations get to listen the entire HFM, and that of
50's and 60's is still liked by them, we can claim about that standing
the test of time.
Mind you, we are already a minority.
Bye.
Ravi
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
> RD Burman's music has always been among the most hotly discussed
> topics in RMIM. Here is why I think.
>
> Madan Mohan, S-J, SDB, SalilC, Roshan, Hemant, Naushad, OPN, et al
> dominated the 50-60s music and created a variety of gems in an
> environment of healthy competition.
>
> Their quality deteriorated during late 60s (everyone has a capacity or
> limit I believe).
Many, but not all.
> RDB's phenomenal rise began in early 70s.
>
> While I consider the RDB-dominated era as a continuation of the so
> called Golden Era because of its quality (well, IMHO he raised the
> standards of HFM after the slump of late 60s), to many fixed-to-MD
> music lovers, this was an end of the era (obviously becuase of near-
> end of career of their favoured MD). I remember Naushad's lament on
> how music declined since the beginning of 70s which I can clearly
> correlate with his stopping work.
>
> Why do people choose RDB to criticise? Simple. Because RDB's
> compositions stood the test of time and his more than 30 years old
> works are still being hailed by old and young alike. Criticising a
> popular/great name brings more attention.
That is a gross and naive oversimplification. For some people
attention-getting is motivation enough, but there are enough others
who are not out there for that kind of thing.
> I for one can consume RDB as much as I can any of the MDs of the
<other comparisons deleted> Padosan beats
> Half Ticket any day
Stick a big fat IMO after that statement. Padosan's songs are better
known, but that's about it. KK's genius is at work (e.g. "Meri Pyaari
Bindu"), but it is equally or better so in Half Ticket.
> just to name a few. And mind you, the movies I
> quoted are hardly considered as RDB's great works. I will have to work
> overtime to find other MD's equivalents of Amar Prem.
Amar Prem is definitely one of RDB's best (along with Chhote Nawaab
and perhaps Teesri Manzil) but there are easily other soundtracks of
other MDs that will go head-to-head with it. In my book RDB gets some
credit for venturing out in different directions and exploring new
space, but I am not altogether thrilled with his results (being
*different* is not in and of itself a good thing).
Sanjeev
naniwadekar
"Sanjeev Ramabhadran" wrote :
>
> Amar Prem is definitely one of RDB's best (along with
> Chhote Nawaab and perhaps Teesri Manzil)
>
I cannot disagree more strongly about Teesri Manzil.
The film served notice about the type of intolerable
music which films were going to let loose on public.
Today we have reached a stage where it is difficult
to sit in an Indian eatery to eat Idli or Dosa because
the music being played, at a very loud volume too,
challenges patience. And I wish there were a total
ban on music for Indians.
IMO Rafi doesn't cut it with RDB at all. RDB did,
like his father, have a knack of composing for Kishore
Kumar. But KK's voice deteriorated rapidly from
the late 1960s. In 'gaataa rahe meraa dil' he sounds
heavenly. A couple of years later, his voice has lost
some of its magic in 'ruup teraa mastaanaa'. The song
plays better in the head. KK would have sung it much
better 3-4 years before. By the time KK sang 'chingari
koi bhadake' he had lost even more of its magical
quality. Not that KK's songs in Amar Prem are very
special compositions, but they are damn good, and
I will give it to RDB that it is not his fault that he composed
them after KK's voice was on the downswing.
Lata's songs in Amar Prem are also very nice but not
ultra-special, and they have not aged very well with me.
Some of it may be due to Lata. She would have sung
them much better 20 years earlier. Besides, it has been
posted on rmim that at least one of Lata's songs in Amar
Prem was actually composed by RDB's father. If true,
it takes something away from what little good RDB did
over his career.
- dn
Shalini Razdan
You know, Sanjeev, I don't think it is a gross and naive
oversimplification. I would say a significant motivator/impetus for
criticism of popular cultural figures is informed (if not *because*
of) by the awareness that the popularity of the person being
criticized ensures that a certain amount of attention will be paid to
one's views (especially if they're dissenting). That's not to say the
naysayer's, um, naysaying is insincere or without substance, but to
ignore the attention-generating aspect of it is, er, naive, IMHO.:-)
This holds true, perhaps especially so, for RMIM, which seems to be
comprised of folks (self included) who take pride in the "non-
conformist" chip on their shoulder.
> > just to name a few. And mind you, the movies I
> > quoted are hardly considered as RDB's great works. I will have to work
> > overtime to find other MD's equivalents of Amar Prem.
>
> Amar Prem is definitely one of RDB's best (along with Chhote Nawaab
> and perhaps Teesri Manzil) but there are easily other soundtracks of
> other MDs that will go head-to-head with it.
I normally don't get into these sort of fundamentally subjective
evaluations as XYZ soundtrack better than ABC, but I'm genuinely
curious to know which soundtracks RMIMers consider to be "better" than
Teesri Manzil? I ask this, because I'm not sure any other hindi film
soundtrack falls in the same "type" of music as Teesri Manzil.
In my book RDB gets some
> credit for venturing out in different directions and exploring new
> space, but I am not altogether thrilled with his results (being
> *different* is not in and of itself a good thing).
>
In my book this sort of assessment and subsequent dismissial of RDB as
"different" is both meaningless and more than a little patronizing.
My guess is that RDB didn't sit in his music room and compose songs
with the express purpose of being "different" (from what, may I ask)
but rather just created *his* music - like every other MD.
Shalini
> Sanjeev
Afzal A. Khan
"Teesri Manzil" was a late 1966 movie. I believe, its music
initially did not become all that popular as it did subsequently.
Also, IIRC, it could not get released in a "first-rate" or
"first-choice" cinema in Bombay, like Liberty, Apsara, Novelty,
Maratha Mandir, Naaz or even Alankar. I think its main release
was in a Matunga theatre ("Barkha", "Badal" or "Bijli"). It was
only later that the film and its music acquired a sort of "cult"
status. {This is just my opinion}.
But another film of RDB that was released some five years later
did in fact have a stunning impact insofar as music is concerned.
It was "Caravan" stg. Jeetendra and Asha Parekh. For me, the
word "different" is much more applicable to this film. Again,
this is just my opinion.
Afzal
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
An genuinely interesting question (though my initial remark was more
specifically about Amar Prem). Can't think of that right off.
> In my book RDB gets some
>
> > credit for venturing out in different directions and exploring new
> > space, but I am not altogether thrilled with his results (being
> > *different* is not in and of itself a good thing).
>
> In my book this sort of assessment and subsequent dismissial of RDB as
> "different" is both meaningless and more than a little patronizing.
> My guess is that RDB didn't sit in his music room and compose songs
> with the express purpose of being "different" (from what, may I ask)
> but rather just created *his* music - like every other MD.
I should have perhaps worded it better. Different was by no means
*all* he was. Chhote Nawaab and Amar Prem are to me examples of RDB
showing that he could do melody at least on par with his major
"predecessors" (ignore for the moment claims by some that SDB really
composed those, etc.), and I like the balancing of melody and rhythm
in Teesri Manzil. In general, I don't believe that music creation is
necessarily as spontaneous a process as folks often assert. Thus, I
feel like (though of course can't prove it) it was something of a
conscious decision, somewhere in the late 60s/early 70s, to change the
mix of melody/rhythm and deviate from some of what had been the
conventions of composing to that point.
Sanjeev
Asif
> "Sanjeev Ramabhadran" wrote :
>
>
>
> > Amar Prem is definitely one of RDB's best (along with
> > Chhote Nawaab and perhaps Teesri Manzil)
>
> I cannot disagree more strongly about Teesri Manzil.
> The film served notice about the type of intolerable
> music which films were going to let loose on public.
> Today we have reached a stage where it is difficult
> to sit in an Indian eatery to eat Idli or Dosa because
> the music being played, at a very loud volume too,
> challenges patience. And I wish there were a total
> ban on music for Indians.
>
How about Albela (1951)? What kind of music did it let loose on your
aural senses then? I guess you stopped eating in Indian eateries
after 1951.
> IMO Rafi doesn't cut it with RDB at all. RDB did,
> like his father, have a knack of composing for Kishore
> Kumar. But KK's voice deteriorated rapidly from
> the late 1960s. In 'gaataa rahe meraa dil' he sounds
> heavenly. A couple of years later, his voice has lost
> some of its magic in 'ruup teraa mastaanaa'. The song
> plays better in the head. KK would have sung it much
> better 3-4 years before. By the time KK sang 'chingari
> koi bhadake' he had lost even more of its magical
> quality. Not that KK's songs in Amar Prem are very
> special compositions, but they are damn good, and
> I will give it to RDB that it is not his fault that he composed
> them after KK's voice was on the downswing.
> Lata's songs in Amar Prem are also very nice but not
> ultra-special, and they have not aged very well with me.
> Some of it may be due to Lata. She would have sung
> them much better 20 years earlier. Besides, it has been
> posted on rmim that at least one of Lata's songs in Amar
> Prem was actually composed by RDB's father. If true,
> it takes something away from what little good RDB did
> over his career.
>
Now that you did not find anything wrong with the music of Amar Prem
or other splendid scores by RDB, you started criticizing singers in
his albums. That is not fair. Be consistent in your criticism.
Asif
naniwadekar
"Asif" <alvi...@gmail.com> wrote :
>
> How about Albela (1951)? What kind of music did it let
> loose on your aural senses then? I guess you stopped
> eating in Indian eateries > after 1951.
>
Albela's music is quite enjoyable.
> Now that you did not find anything wrong with the music of Amar Prem
> or other splendid scores by RDB, you started criticizing singers in
> his albums. That is not fair. Be consistent in your criticism.
>
> Asif
>
While Amar Prem won't make Top 10 or even Top 100
of my list, it is indeed a memorable film for its music. As
for his 'other splendid scores' there aren't very many of
them, according to me.
I am not criticizing Lata and Kishore for their singing in
Amar Prem as such. They were active
for 20+ years by the time the film came around and had
crossed 40; some decline in their quality was due. Far from
being unfair to RDB, I am agreeing that he composed
excellent songs for Amar Prem, and that if he had been
lucky enough to have his singers sing them during their peak
years, the songs would have sounded much better.
- dn
Akkordeon
> "Asif" <alvi.a...@gmail.com> wrote :
There is an RDB Fan Group in Pune which presents one show every 3
months and his musicians often feature in it to play on stage. The
compere extols the greatness and virtues of RDB. After 4 programs I
thought I had heard all the salient points to be made about him and it
started repeating itself.
Yes, RDB was good, no doubt, but his faltu songs outnumbered the good
ones, just like LP. (Unlike his Dad-- it is almost impossible to find
any faltu song in all SDB's varied repertoire.) The problem is that
though his music was good and innovative, it was also gimmicky, some
gimmicks repeated too often to the detriment of the good melody. His
later songs (such as Shaan) which were basically incoherent melodies
supported mainly by the peculiar rhythm did not fare well, but his
remixes still do well because the inherent melody is very good. Some
remixes actually sound better e.g. Tu hai wohi dilne jise apna kaha.
Mind you, in all the programs which play his songs, only a few songs
keep getting repeated, like Apna Desh, Hum Kisise.., Jawani Diwani,
Caravan, Teesri Manzil. And the examples that are cited for his
serious side are restricted to Andhi, Kinara and Hare Rama Hare
Krishna. I personally rate Saagar, Masoom and of course 1942 far above
even the much overrated Amar Prem. There you get a taste of his
phenomenal knowledge and innovation.
In the 50s and 60s -- when we had such a brilliant gallery like CR,
Naushad, Salilda, MM, SJ, OP, Ravi, Roshan, Khayyam and many more
working at the same time, who were all sincere in their purpose -- at
the most only 1 out of 10 songs of a film used to be somewhat below
par, while in the 70s this rose to 3 out of 6 and after that, in he
80s, with a complete reversal, at the most 1 out of the whole lot used
to be anywhere near OK, this was when even RDB practically gave up and
Bappi took over and LP continued to dish out trash.
RD's greatness was that he was a trend-setter, like SJ before him and
ARR after him. No one else has made such a permanent impression on
film music. RDB could not sustain the trend which he started and which
was badly twisted by others. Gimmicks are easy to imitate and such MDs
offer to copy at half the rate, like LP did to SJ and Bappi did to
RD.
It is tragic that RDB spent the last few years neglected and did not
live to see the success of the brilliant score in 1942. But I doubt
whether even he would have been able to hold out in the completely
changed scenario of today, where Vishal Shekhar and SEL on the
melodious side and HR and ARA on the questionable side hold sway.
kcp
> There is an RDB Fan Group in Pune which presents one show every 3
> months and his musicians often feature in it to play on stage. The
> compere extols the greatness and virtues of RDB.
the last show review ( with photos ) is here : http://panchammagic.org/events-news.html
Also previous show-reviews are there at the bottom of the page
KCP
PS - for those who want this years show review in RMIM see below :
------------------------------------------------------------
An audio-visual tribute based on original soundtracks with inputs from
his own musicians.
4 th jan 2008, Tilak Smarak Mandir, Pune.
Guests: Bujji Lord, Kishor Desai, Ashok Patki.
4th Jan,08...RD Burman's 14th death anniversary...As always, the
thrilling prospect of experiencing some more of the celebrated
maverick's newly unearthed musical nuances, courtesy Panchammagic
team, was too tempting to resist! Off I drove to the city of Pune, to
live through another discovery trip of RD's heart-throbbing creations.
After all, the theme 'Pulsating Pancham... the hypnotic years' promised
a compulsory beat that no passionate heart could afford to miss!!!
Venue - The cherished Tilak Smarak Mandir. The clock showed 9.30 pm,
Pancham lovers rushed to get seated...as the mood began to set in,
with the exceptional competition track of 'Hum Kisise Kum Nahin'
soaring in the back-ground. The heart-felt emotion and devotion
pervaded right through, thanks to the sincere RD 'stamp' portrait as
the stage backdrop...The loRD continued to bless, assuring our prayers
with the same unmistakable candor and commitment that he lent to
hundreds of his compositions!
Host Ankush Chinchankar started off by paying fitting tributes to 4
departed personalities closely associated with Pancham - Mother,
composer and singer Meera Dev Burman, Cawas Lord, respected veteran
percussionist and senior musician of the RD Burman team; Tony Vaz, the
champion Bass Guitarist, who sensationalized RD's compositions with
his stylish and improvised Guitar playing and last, but not the least,
RD's first wife Rita Patel.
"Ishq mera bandagee hai" ('Yeh Vaada Raha', 1982) in two original
forms - Pancham's touching studio version and the recorded Kishoreda
version - set the ball rolling for Pancham aficionados. The two
distinct renditions easily underline RD's extraordinary command over
sense of rhythm, which the evening sought to explore. One more
mesmerizing illustration of the same pedigree - "Jaan-e-
jaanaa" ('Samadhi', 1972), with its double- Guitar effect and an
eternally tempting avant-garde treatment!
Another song that changes pace with version - "O maajhi o
maajhi" ('Bandhe Haath', 1973) in Hindi by Asha Bhosle and Bengali, by
Indrani Sen .Also mark the exemplary music arrangement in "Albela
re" ('Raampur Ka Laxman', 1972) and the predominant Brass section in
"O deewano dil sambhalo" ('The Great Gambler', 1979) to sense
Pancham's inborn flair to elevate tunes through a deadly mix of sound
and instruments!
Delving further in to Pancham's grasp of pace and tempo, Ankush
stressed how the composer effortlessly blended numerous styles to
infuse color to the basic rhythm - note the sharp Maadal in "Dil
pukare jeeva re" ('Jeeva', 1986), the definite Arabic feel in
"Lehraake aaya hai" ('Waris', 1969), the jerk-less build-up from the
slow-paced 'mukhda' to the fast-paced 'antara' in "Kaanp rahi
mein" ('Joshila', 1973) and the unconventional progression in "Maine
dekha ek sapna" ('Samadhi', 1972). Truly, RD's innate appetite to
combine and create unusual stuff with consummate ease continues to
leave us awestruck!!!
The ambiance immersed, viewers were now asking for more. More
pulsating excitement followed - the 'full-of-life' 2-4 to 6-8 pattern
change in "Haye re haye tera ghungta" ('Dhongee', 1976), the
affectionate "Koi maane ya na maane" ('Adhikar', 1971) and the Jazz
influenced "Tum jaison ko toh" ('Garam Masala', 1972) and "Jogi o
jogi" ('Lakhon Mein Ek', 1971). And "Do ghoont mujhe bhi" ('Jheel Ke
Us Paar', 1973), re-played twice on demand, effortlessly underscored
RD's timeless grip over public pulse and his compelling self-belief in
having Lata Mangeshkar croon an 'Asha Bhosle' type of song!!!
The fading yet fascinating Drums of 'Jeene de yeh duniya" ('Lava',
1985) and "Poocho nahin dil mera" ('Qayamat', 1983) welcomed the 1st
guest, Shri Bujji Lord to the stage. Born to a musical family, Bujji
Lord has been a gifted exponent of multiple rhythm instruments like
the Castanet, the Jazz and Latin American Drums. He has, however, been
more associated with mallet instruments like Vibraphone, Xylophone and
Glockenspiel, learning them under his proficient father Cawas Lord and
composer-cum- arranger brother Kersi Lord. One of the leading
musicians of the RD Burman team, Bujji Lord has also traveled to many
parts of the world as a featured artiste for various musical troupes.
Starting off by playing the Castanet pieces from "Kisise dosti kar
lo" ('Dil Diwana', 1974) and "Matwali aankhonwali" ('Chhote Nawaab',
1961), Bujji Lord delighted viewers with his earnest playing skills -
which was after a gap of 20 years - and intermittent sense of humour.
Moving on to play the Xylophone, his demonstrations explained how the
use of wooden bars gave a peculiar non-metallic sound in songs like
"Golmaal hai bhai sab golmaal hai" ('Golmaal', 1979), "O re ghunhroo
kaa bole" ('Hare Rama Hare Krishna', 1971), "Dekho maine dekha" ('Love
Story', 1981) and "Dukki pe dukki" ('Satte Pe Satta', 1981). Needless
to say, the effect and punch that emerge in such songs visibly
register the vast talent and ingenuity that Pancham and his renowned
musical team were made of!
"He was a creative magician who always tried to innovate", claimed
Bujji Lord. The audience reached seventh heaven as he played a glimpse
of the legendary Vibraphone preludes of "O haseena
zulfonwali" ('Teesri Manzil'1966). Responding favorably to shouts of
'once more', a repeat performance with the same élan had the audience
go berserk. And "Is mod se jaate hain" ('Aandhi', 1975) and "Kahin naa
jaa" ('Bade Dilwala', 1983), fabulously summarized the special
chemistry between the loRD and the Lord!!!
"He was a composer with a variety of styles", Bujji Lord fondly
remembered of his long association with RD. More ecstasy for the
enthusiast gathering ensued -
Bujji Lord's expert Drum playing skills were demonstrated through
everlasting creations such as "Sun neeta" ('Dil Diwana', 1974), 'I
love you" ('Hare Rama Hare Krishna', 1971). 'Jaane-jaan" ('Sanam Teri
Kasam', 1982), "Bachna ae haseeno" ('Hum Kisise Kum Nahin', 1977),
"Aao na gale lagaao na" ('Mere Jeevan Saathi', 1972) and "Piya tu ab
toh" ('Caravan', 1971). Supreme testimony to the knockout combination
of Pancham's conception and razor-sharp execution by his musicians!!!
The first half concluded with an invigorating brief visual, to
announce the availability of 'Ultimate Unremix', a collection of
Pancham's popular, 'not-so-easily available' and less heard
compositions on video. Presented by Shemaroo India Pvt. Ltd, the songs
have been made available in the form of 6-Vcd and 4-Dvd packs.
The curtains re-opened to the presence of the 2nd guest for the
evening Shri. Ashok Patki, prominent music director for Marathi films
and Theater. Remembered for plays like 'Bramhachari' and 'Moruchi
Maavshi, Ashokji spent his early days accompanying singer-sister Meena
Patki to her recording sessions. He later started playing as musician
himself, beginning with percussion instruments like the Cobasche,
Maracas and the Conga.
"I learnt to play with the beat", Ashokji gently recollected of his
early days. Learning music basics by watching veteran players like
Maruti Rao Keer and Devichand Chauhan in RD's famous team, Ashokji
played percussion in vintage RD songs like "Ni sultana re" ('Pyaar Ka
Mausam', 1969), and "Baahon mein chale aao" ('Anamika', 1973), and the
somber Chimes in "Zindagi ke safar mein" ('Aap Ki Kasam', 1974).
"Panchamda's ability to give different music patterns made it easy for
producers to picturize songs", observed Ashokji, highlighting RD's
exquisite musical range and acumen. The serene Santoor pieces in "Abke
saawan mein jee dare" ('Jaise Ko Taisa', 1974), the singing highs and
lows in "Jaane-jaan" ('Jawani Diwani', 1972) and the unique Tabla pick-
up in "Ek main aur ek tu" ('Khel Khel Mein', 1975) indisputably
exemplify the point made by Ashokji. Phenomenal stuff from a master
composer!!!
More pristine magic followed - "Naa koi umang hai" ('Kati Patang',
1970) and "Phir wohi raat hai" ('Ghar', 1977). "If Panchamda had used
the normal Tabla Thekas, this song would have sounded like a Ghazal.
See how its uncommon handling has elevated the song to great heights",
remarked Ashokji on the former composition. A well-observed comment
that listeners may have missed...
The Piano-notes of the poignant "Jahan pe savera ho" ('Baseraa', 1981)
invited Shri. Kishor Desai, the evening's 3rd guest to take centre-
stage. An extremely talented and sought-after musician of yesteryears,
Kishorji made his mark by playing the Mandolin at a very early age of
15. Besides also working as independent music director, he has been an
acknowledged Sarod player and worked as assistant music director,
arranger for composers like Roshan and C. Ramchandra. Kishor Desai has
also played the Mandolin for RD Burman, some of his notable
contributions being in "Meri pyaari bindu" ('Padosan', 1968), "Tum bin
jaaoon kahan" ('Pyaar Ka Mausam', 1969) and "Bangle ke
peeche" ('Samadhi', 1972).
"Pancham mera bahut achcha dost tha. Hum log hamesha saath uthte
baithte they", remarked Kishorji. As a result were genuine renditions
for a very dear friend - "Raina beeti jaaye", "Chingari koi
bhadke" ('Amar Prem', 1971) and "Beeti na beetayi raina" ('Parichay',
1972) on the Sarod and
"Dekha na haye re" ('Bombay To Goa', 1972) on the Mandolin. One could
actually sense the terrific camaraderie and friendship built on strong
underlying bonding and respect for each other as musicians!!!
As the event drew to a close, images of a Mouth-Organ playing Pancham
and the dance orchestration piece of 'Hare Rama Hare Krishna'
continued to linger...Yet another incredible evening of Pancham's
unfading wizardry had left its indelible mark on us. Though an
improved tempo in the second half would have served better, there
cannot be enough praise to commend the earnest efforts of Panchammagic
and the entire team. Their persistent dedicated endeavor has ensured
to keep the RD Burman appeal intact and shining...all the way to long-
lasting glory!!!
The Panchammagic mission continues. Pancham lovers await the dawn of
the next occasion...27th June, 2008...for another memorable journey of
the Pancham swar, for another memorable journey for the Pancham swar
and for another memorable journey by hearts which forever beat the
Pancham swar!!!
Previous show reviews :
http://panchammagic.org/show-review%2027%20june%202007.html
http://panchammagic.org/show-review%2004%20jan%202007.html
http://panchammagic.org/show-review%2027%20Jun%2006.html
http://panchammagic.org/show-review%204%20Jan%2006.html
http://panchammagic.org/show-review%2027th%20Jun%2005.html
http://panchammagic.org/show-review%204th%20Jan%2005.html
http://panchammagic.org/show-review%2028th%20Oct%2005.html
JAG CHAN
@registered.motzarella.org:
> "Teesri Manzil" was a late 1966 movie. I believe, its music
> initially did not become all that popular as it did
subsequently.
> Also, IIRC, it could not get released in a "first-rate" or
> "first-choice" cinema in Bombay, like Liberty, Apsara, Novelty,
> Maratha Mandir, Naaz or even Alankar. I think its main release
> was in a Matunga theatre ("Barkha", "Badal" or "Bijli"). It was
> only later that the film and its music acquired a sort of "cult"
> status. {This is just my opinion}.
> Afzal
Afzal Bhai,
Regarding Badal, Bijli and Barkha being the main release for Teesri
Manzil you are way off the mark,
When Teesri Manzil was released they were not yet constructed.
I don't know how you came to the conclusion that a Nasir Hussain
Production with Shammi Kapoor and Asha Parekh in the lead couldn't get
released in a "first-rate" or "first-choice" cinema in Bombay.
My friend a die hard fan of Shammi Kapoor confirmed that Teesri Manzil
was relesed in Naaz, Capitol, Lotus and Broadway (alas - last two are now
History).
Regards.
Afzal A. Khan
You are right and I must have been mistaken. In all probability,
the movie I saw in one of the three Matunga theatres was "Masoom"
which starred Naseeruddin Shah and Shabana Azmi. I believe it
was a(n early) 1983 movie.
I think I saw "Teesri Manzil" in one of the less prominent cinema
halls, certainly not at the Naaz Cinema. This last hall was
constructed in the mid-fifties and was one of the really good
halls in Bombay at the time. Except that the approach road
(rather lane) was quite narrow and unappealing. Also, there were
two other rather non-descript halls in the vicinity ---Swastik,
which was a little better than the other one viz. Imperial. This
latter was quite awful. I recall seeing "Mere Lal" at the
Imperial. The film starred Dev Kumar. {There was a recent thread
about him}.
Afzal
Abhijit
Padosan is a lot more than KK's genius at work. Where are equivalents
of "mai.n chalii mai.n chalii", "kahanaa hai kahanaa hai", "mere
saamanewaalii khi.Dakii", "bhaa_ii battur", "ek chatur naar", etc. in
Half Ticket?
> > just to name a few. And mind you, the movies I
> > quoted are hardly considered as RDB's great works. I will have to work
> > overtime to find other MD's equivalents of Amar Prem.
>
> Amar Prem is definitely one of RDB's best (along with Chhote Nawaab
> and perhaps Teesri Manzil) but there are easily other soundtracks of
> other MDs that will go head-to-head with it. In my book RDB gets some
> credit for venturing out in different directions and exploring new
> space, but I am not altogether thrilled with his results (being
> *different* is not in and of itself a good thing).
>
Some examples of such results will be good.
Asif
>
> You are right and I must have been mistaken. In all probability,
> the movie I saw in one of the three Matunga theatres was "Masoom"
> which starred Naseeruddin Shah and Shabana Azmi. I believe it
> was a(n early) 1983 movie.
Yes, it is an early 1983 film.
>
> I think I saw "Teesri Manzil" in one of the less prominent cinema
> halls, certainly not at the Naaz Cinema. This last hall was
> constructed in the mid-fifties and was one of the really good
> halls in Bombay at the time. Except that the approach road
> (rather lane) was quite narrow and unappealing. Also, there were
> two other rather non-descript halls in the vicinity ---Swastik,
> which was a little better than the other one viz. Imperial. This
> latter was quite awful. I recall seeing "Mere Lal" at the
> Imperial. The film starred Dev Kumar. {There was a recent thread
> about him}.
>
Off-topic, but, Afzal Sahab, could you please recall hard and give me
some more information about public response to Teesri Manzil music
when it was released? On other post you said the music was not all
that popular [when released] as it did subsequently. By
"subsequently", do you mean years later or weeks later? I know the
film was released in Nov 1966, but not sure when the music was
released but I think it came before the film. So you are saying that
no song impressed listeners/viewers until "subsequently" after the
film's release? If that is not true, which song(s) appealed to them
first? And to you? How did those rocksy songs fare in the folksy
parts of the country then?
What was the fate of the music of Mere Lal when it was released? Did
'paayal kii jha.Nkaar raste raste' hit them hard or earned its appeal
softly? Thanks.
Asif
Ketan
Akkordeon says...
>Yes, RDB was good, no doubt, but his faltu songs outnumbered the good
>ones, just like LP. (Unlike his Dad-- it is almost impossible to find
>any faltu song in all SDB's varied repertoire.) The problem is that
"Bewaqoof!" "Naughty Boy!" No I am not calling you names. I suggest you expand
your knowledge of SDB's "varied repertoire" by watching these movies, before
making such statements. You might be surprised at the number of faltu songs he
came up with.
> His
>later songs (such as Shaan) which were basically incoherent melodies
>supported mainly by the peculiar rhythm did not fare well, but his
>remixes still do well because the inherent melody is very good. Some
Either his later songs have incoherent melodies OR the reason the remixes of
these songs are good is because they have good inherent melodies. Which one is
it? Maybe there is just something inherently incoherent in your thinking.
< rest of nonsense deleted >
I don't know who is sillier in this thread. RDB bashers for passing off what are
essentially their very subjective and personal tastes as facts, or
RDB lovers for engaging in a debate with people whose knowledge when at the
batting crease would make McGrath look like Bradman.
Still, to each his own
Ketan
ani...@gmail.com
>
> Padosan is a lot more than KK's genius at work. Where are equivalents
> of "mai.n chalii mai.n chalii", "kahanaa hai kahanaa hai", "mere
> saamanewaalii khi.Dakii", "bhaa_ii battur", "ek chatur naar", etc. in
> Half Ticket?
>
No No...the question should be other way around......what does Padosan
songs have, besides KKs singing prowess and, maybe a decent melody
like "sharm aati hai magar" (i hate the lyrics though), to even begin
to compare with the genius of Salil in Half Ticket?
I do like RDB a lot and think he came close to Salil and other greats
with some of his compositions, but Padosan is not the soundtrack that
is a good example of that. Padosan on its own is a pleasant enough
soundtrack but comparing it to Half Ticket, to me atleast, is a
travesty. But like they say....to each his own.
Cheers
Archisman Mozumder
> On Jan 15, 2:25 am, Sanjeev Ramabhadran
> <sanjeev.ramabhad...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Padosan beats
>
> > > Half Ticket any day
>
> > Stick a big fat IMO after that statement. Padosan's songs are better
> > known, but that's about it. KK's genius is at work (e.g. "Meri Pyaari
> > Bindu"), but it is equally or better so in Half Ticket.
>
> Padosan is a lot more than KK's genius at work. Where are equivalents
> of "mai.n chalii mai.n chalii", "kahanaa hai kahanaa hai", "mere
> saamanewaalii khi.Dakii", "bhaa_ii battur", "ek chatur naar", etc. in
> Half Ticket?
>
Dear Abhijit,
Your questions sound like rhetorics. The songs of the two movies are
different, because the story & the charecterisation of the lead actors
(who generally sing the songs) are different.
Padosan, IMO, is a more watchable & enjoyable comedy that Half Ticket.
Also, since the storyline is more robust, the song-situations are more
appropriate & the scope for RD to compose varied tunes, are better.
The latter is just a whacky Kishore Kumar all the way, who was
allegedly forced to act in this movie by the producer of the movie,
Kalidas. Kalidas took legal recourse to teach Kishore Kumar a lesson
when the latter was playing truant (allegedly due to some non-payment
of dues).
Half Ticket's music, under the given circumstances, are as wonderful
as they can be. The genuis of Kishore's spontaneity & Salil's
sprightly & exuberant composing style at it's best (with Shailendra
not left far behind).
Half Ticket, IMO does compare very very favourably with Padosan.
Regards.
JAG CHAN
> You are right and I must have been mistaken. In all
> probability, the movie I saw in one of the three Matunga
> theatres was "Masoom" which starred Naseeruddin Shah and
> Shabana Azmi. I believe it was a(n early) 1983 movie.
> Afzal
Afzal Bhai,
Because you have used the word probability, may I hazard a guess?
The movie which you saw there may have been "Dulhan Wohi Jo Piya Man
Bhaye".
Reason for my guess is that in your earlier post you had talked of Main
Release - and "Dulhan ... Bhaye" was premiered in Badal (The only picture
to be premiered there).
Regards.
Abhay Jain
"Ketan" <Ketan_...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:fmjn9...@drn.newsguy.com...
> In article
> <02821b85-dc52-4438...@m34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
> Akkordeon says...
>
>>Yes, RDB was good, no doubt, but his faltu songs outnumbered the good
>>ones, just like LP. (Unlike his Dad-- it is almost impossible to find
>>any faltu song in all SDB's varied repertoire.) The problem is that
>
> "Bewaqoof!" "Naughty Boy!" No I am not calling you names. I suggest you
> expand
> your knowledge of SDB's "varied repertoire" by watching these movies,
> before
> making such statements. You might be surprised at the number of faltu
> songs he
> came up with.
>
Earlier work of SDB was quite so so. Until he teamed up with Sahir,
except for Vidya, Dada did a so so job. It is in contast with RDB,
who started out good (all his 60s work was superb), but started
going down slowly till mid 70s and accelerated after that.
As was already mentioend sometime back, IMHO, RDB excelled
when there was comptetetion but maybe became complacent
when there was little competetion in 70s and none in 80s.
AJ
>
>
> Ketan
>
kcp
> On Jan 16, 2:39 am, Abhijit <nanhafaris...@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
>
> > On Jan 15, 2:25 am, Sanjeev Ramabhadran
> > <sanjeev.ramabhad...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Padosan beats
>
> > > > Half Ticket any day
>
> > > Stick a big fat IMO after that statement. Padosan's songs are better
> > > known, but that's about it. KK's genius is at work (e.g. "Meri Pyaari
> > > Bindu"), but it is equally or better so in Half Ticket.
>
> > Padosan is a lot more than KK's genius at work. Where are equivalents
> > of "mai.n chalii mai.n chalii", "kahanaa hai kahanaa hai", "mere
> > saamanewaalii khi.Dakii", "bhaa_ii battur", "ek chatur naar", etc. in
> > Half Ticket?
>
> Dear Abhijit,
>
> Your questions sound like rhetorics. The songs of the two movies are
> different, because the story & the charecterisation of the lead actors
> (who generally sing the songs) are different.
Yes. this is very correctly put.
>
> Padosan, IMO, is a more watchable & enjoyable comedy that Half Ticket.
I differ for obvious reasons :-)
> Also, since the storyline is more robust, the song-situations are more
> appropriate & the scope for RD to compose varied tunes, are better.
>
> The latter is just a whacky Kishore Kumar all the way, who was
> allegedly forced to act in this movie by the producer of the movie,
> Kalidas. Kalidas took legal recourse to teach Kishore Kumar a lesson
> when the latter was playing truant (allegedly due to some non-payment
> of dues).
And the traunt played is actually the dialogue in a Kishore movie
( quiz - which Kishore-movie has the dialogue related to "locking a
guy in a cupboard" ? ) .
>
> Half Ticket's music, under the given circumstances, are as wonderful
> as they can be. The genuis of Kishore's spontaneity & Salil's
> sprightly & exuberant composing style at it's best (with Shailendra
> not left far behind).
>
> Half Ticket, IMO does compare very very favourably with Padosan.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. Half Ticket, is according to me one
of the finest albums that Hindi films ever saw ( with respect to the
picturizations and overall effect, i.e. )
KCP
arun
>
> - Show quoted text -
my 2 cents.
Both Half Ticket and Padosan are collector's items ( the movies and
the soundtracks)
But Padosan's soundtrack just soars over Half Ticket's, IMO.
Main Chali Main chali is arguably the best Lata-Asha duet ever.
Period.
Kehna hai and Mere saamnewali are two among top 20 of KK-RDB solos.
Sharm Aati and Bhai Bhatoor are great compositions - and sit
comfortably alongside other great Lata solos of the 60s.
Aao sawariya and Ek chautur naar have a special/unique place among
hindi film songs of all time.
Half Ticket's sprighty soundtrack doesn't have this much vividness
about it.
Padosan should make into top 20 soundtracks of 1960s..anyone care to
make a list/do a poll??
Arun
Sanjeev Ramabhadran
> Main Chali Main chali is arguably the best Lata-Asha duet ever.
> Period.
Puh-leeze. No period - not even a comma. For reference, what other
Lata-Asha duets are you comparing it to? They've both sung well
enough, but what possibly stands out as extraordinary about this song?
As for the rest, "Meri Pyaari Bindu" is easily the highlight of the
album for me. The Lata and KK solos are well-sung and reasonably
enjoyable to listen to. I am bored out of my mind by "Madrasi"
imitations, so "Aao Saanwariya" and "Ek Chatur Naar" don't really do
anything for me (granted that they match the movie situation). For me
the most amusing part of "Ek Chatur Naar" is how Manna Dey's voice
magically reappears after Mehmood's "Ham Pakad Ke Rakhega Ji~~~"
sequence.
Sanjeev
P.S. On a vaguely related note, "Dosa Express" of Jersey City, NJ used
to use the beginning of "Ek Chatur Naar" and a Mehmood-wannabe-
voiceover as their radio ad not too long ago. That always manage to
stir up a unique mix of irritation and fascination of such overt
stupidity (IMO), kinda like 50,000 Atlanta Braves fans in unison doing
the fake Native American war-cry and hatchet chop.
arun
thanks for letting me know that I missed mentioning meri pyari bindu
-- which is obviously a great icing on the cake. Corroborates my point
further.
And Padosan is by no means RDB's best.
I put Caravan, Pyar Ka Mausam, Ijaazat, Hare rama Hare Krishna, Ghar,
Amar Prem, hum kisise kam nahin, dil padosi hai, kinara ahead of
padosan (no .. no Kati patang or mere jeevan saathi for me..these
soundtracks are a bit tiring)
But the best of RDB is buried in those shorter but juicier soundtracks
such as khusbhoo, Musafir, Namumkin, Libaas and dozen of others.
Arun
Abhijit
Archisman Mozumder wrote:
> On Jan 16, 2:39�am, Abhijit <nanhafaris...@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
> > On Jan 15, 2:25 am, Sanjeev Ramabhadran
> > <sanjeev.ramabhad...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Padosan beats
> >
> > > > Half Ticket any day
> >
> > > Stick a big fat IMO after that statement. Padosan's songs are better
> > > known, but that's about it. KK's genius is at work (e.g. "Meri Pyaari
> > > Bindu"), but it is equally or better so in Half Ticket.
> >
> > Padosan is a lot more than KK's genius at work. Where are equivalents
> > of "mai.n chalii mai.n chalii", "kahanaa hai kahanaa hai", "mere
> > saamanewaalii khi.Dakii", "bhaa_ii battur", "ek chatur naar", etc. in
> > Half Ticket?
> >
>
> Dear Abhijit,
>
> Your questions sound like rhetorics. The songs of the two movies are
> different, because the story & the charecterisation of the lead actors
> (who generally sing the songs) are different.
>
Well, that applies to every movie, doesn't it? And you are right that
should be taken into account when evaluating an MD for a specific
movie. There is no way one could compose a song like "manamohanaa
ba.De jhuuThe" for the movie Rocky for example. The intent of me
citing some example movies is to counter some vaguely put opinions
with generic statements such as "RDB's bad songs outnumber good ones"
or "RDB is below SDB, ..." without substantiating the claim.
AR
>
> > Main Chali Main chali is arguably the best Lata-Asha duet ever.
> > Period.
>
> Puh-leeze. No period - not even a comma. For reference, what other
> Lata-Asha duets are you comparing it to? They've both sung well
> enough, but what possibly stands out as extraordinary about this song?
>
> As for the rest, "Meri Pyaari Bindu" is easily the highlight of the
> album for me. The Lata and KK solos are well-sung and reasonably
> enjoyable to listen to. I am bored out of my mind by "Madrasi"
> imitations, so "Aao Saanwariya" and "Ek Chatur Naar"
I am not fond of "Ek Chatur Naar" but "Aao Saanwariyaa" fascinates me
for the sheer beauty of Manna Dey's singing of such an intricate
composition. I am specifically referring to the long sargam at the
end, sung in one breath.
For me the highlight in Half Ticket , is Lata's singing in between the
stanzas in "woh ek nigaah kya mili". It's a masterpiece!
AR
> RD Burman's music has always been among the most hotly discussed
> topics in RMIM. Here is why I think.
>
> have produced a Ghar with Lata's deteriorating voice at disposal?
IMO many other MDs did come up with great scores for Lata despite the
effects of age on her voice. Hridaynath (Lekin, Prem Bhakti Mukti,
Umbartha in Marathi and songs for the Pune national games), Bhupen
Hazarika (Rudaali), Khayyam (Dard, Bazaar and Razia Sultan, even
discounting "ae dil-e-nadaan" which was recorded much earlier), Salil
Chaudhary (Agnipareeksha), Shrinivas Khale (Raam shyaam guN gaan) and
Lakshmikant Pyarelal (Utsav), for instance. In fact, I do recall at
least two beautiful Lata songs from the 80s which she recorded for
Bappi Lahiri.
Abhijit
True. But Ghar as a complete album remains special. "tere binaa jiyaa
jaaye naa", "phir wahii raat hai", "aajakal paa.nv zamii.n par" and
"aapakii aa.nkho.n me.n kuchh" in one album! Couldn't have asked for
more. With Lata's 60s voice, these could have been a lot better.
Archisman Mozumder
An neither is Half Ticket, Salil's.
>
> I put Caravan, Pyar Ka Mausam, Ijaazat, Hare rama Hare Krishna, Ghar,
> Amar Prem, hum kisise kam nahin, dil padosi hai, kinara ahead of
> padosan (no .. no Kati patang or mere jeevan saathi for me..these
> soundtracks are a bit tiring)
For me, movies like Ijaazat, Hum Kisse Kam Nahin, Kinara, will not
come ahead of Bahaaron Ke Sapne, Joshila, Heera Panna, Paraya Dhan,
Gomti Ke Kinaare, Aa Gale Lag Jaa, Jawani Diwani, Teesri Manzil,
Humshakal, to name a few.
>
> But the best of RDB is buried in those shorter but juicier soundtracks
> such as khusbhoo, Musafir, Namumkin, Libaas and dozen of others.
Barring Khushboo, all the other movies reveal the ravages of age in
the voices of the legendary playback singers. That, to me, is a tad
disappointing.
>
> Arun- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
And as for duets of Lata & Asha, IMO, the finest that I have heard is
from Sharada (1957?). Even Basant Bahaar, Jahan Ara, Mere Mehboob,
Chori Chori, Mayurpankh, Dooj Ka Chaand, Bahu Begum, Miss Mary,
Professor, etc. are very enjoyable as well. That said, I must admit
that the Padosan duet is very very good as well.
Sanjeev:- I agree with your comments about 'meri pyaari bindu'.
Kishore's expressive singing in a song that does not span across a lot
of notes is lovely. And when he gets a chance to do a high pitched
bengali-kirtan type of a phrase at the end, he breezes through.
However, I find 'saanwariya aao aao' immensely enjoyable as well. I
think Manna has really rendered this one, well.
Regards-Archisman Mozumder.
Asif
> On Jan 15, 12:56 pm, Akkordeon <chandu.k...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > months and his musicians often feature in it to play on stage. The
> > compere extols the greatness and virtues of RDB.
>
> the last show review ( with photos ) is here :http://panchammagic.org/events-news.html
>
> Also previous show-reviews are there at the bottom of the page
>
> KCP
> PS - for those who want this years show review in RMIM see below :
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> An audio-visual tribute based on original soundtracks with inputs from
> his own musicians.
>
> 4 th jan 2008, Tilak Smarak Mandir,Pune.
>
> Guests: Bujji Lord, Kishor Desai, Ashok Patki.
>
> 4th Jan,08...RD Burman's 14th death anniversary...As always, the
> thrilling prospect of experiencing some more of the celebrated
> maverick's newly unearthed musical nuances, courtesy Panchammagic
KCP:
Who wrote this stunning review? I had been looking for exaclty this
type of information for my research on the musical instruments and
unconventional sources of sounds that RDB used in his songs. One
thing I want to check: The review mentions many different types of
musical instruments that performers played on this show. Were those
same instruments used in the original songs too? I know some, but do
not know most of them. Would someone please let me know? I would be
visiting India toward the end of March. Is any such show planned
around that time in Pune? Thanks.
Asif
kcp
>
> KCP:
>
> Who wrote this stunning review? I had been looking for exaclty this
> type of information for my research on the musical instruments and
> unconventional sources of sounds that RDB used in his songs. One
> thing I want to check: The review mentions many different types of
> musical instruments that performers played on this show. Were those
> same instruments used in the original songs too? I know some, but do
> not know most of them. Would someone please let me know? I would be
> visiting India toward the end of March. Is any such show planned
> around that time in Pune? Thanks.
>
> Asif
this one was by Mr Shanker Iyer.
If you happen to be in Pune/Bombay, you would get a khazana of info
from www.panchammagic.com . Just write to them and you can give my
reference.
kcp
sm0...@gmail.com
> RD Burman's music has always been among the most hotly discussed
> topics in RMIM.
Not really. It hasn't always been a hotly discussed topic. Recently,
yes.
> Why do people choose RDB to criticise? Simple.
> Criticising a popular/great name brings more attention.
This reminds me of the "aukhat" thread on RMIM many moons back :-) The
oldtimers may recall that discussion.
So we now have another novel reason why people "criticize" RDB. So far
the list includes:
1. Lack of knowledge of RDB's music
2. Malice against the great man
3. Ignorance
4. Prejudice
5. Stupidity
6. Combo of 3, 4 and 5
7. Refusal to see beyond the golden era
And now "Criticizing a popular/great name brings more attention." If
this was really the case, one wonders if RDB was the only "popular/
great name" in filmdom. Or is it just that in the RDB-centered
universe there is only one sun - the son of SDB - and one can't
attract attention by criticizing anyone else?
The RDBabus consider RDB to be the best thing to happen since rumali
roti. They cannot believe any human being who has heard RDB's music
can rank anyone else higher. These zealous missionaries are out to
save all the souls that have gone astray from the path of RDB. They
truly believe that these souls are ignorant and an exposure to the
supreme sun's rays will make them see reason. Little do they know that
these souls, have been there, heard that and *chosen* to stay away
from the sun either completely or partially.
Most of the RMIMers accused of not looking (at RDB) beyond the golden
era actually grew up on RDB's music and yet have moved on to greener
(to them) pastures. It is insane to say that they are unfair to RDB
because they are not aware of his oeuvre.
Let me offer another theory for the "criticism" of RDB. Criticism
(scrutiny would be a better word) on RMIM of an artist is usually
proportional to the outrageous (from the non-fan's POV) claims made by
that artists' fans (the exception to prove the rule being
kShanu! :-) ). RDB is certainly not the first MD to be criticized on
RMIM. Naushad, SJ, Chacha Chaudary, SDB, etc. have all had their
moment in the sun :-) Of late, the outrageous claims have usually been
from the RDB camp. Hence, the "criticism" of RDB.
>Who would worry criticising
> L-P for example who failed the test of time
Recently, there was an LP fan who surfaced on RMIM. A sharp
"criticism" of LP followed almost immediately.
BTW, there have been posts on RMIM showing that LP beat RDB in head-to-
head competition as far as commercial success is concerned.
Sami Mohammed (A Naushad fan)
surjit singh
I can't say that I grew up on RDB, but I was first introduced to him
with Teesri Manzil. There is no question that the music of this film
was everywhere in Chandigarh, Ludhiana, Khanna and Maler Kotla, towns
I lived in or visited during its release. And I liked it very much. I
had no Radio or Gramophone player, but the songs were played over and
over again in Panjab University Hostel #3. Then I spent 6 years in US
and missed all the Kishor-Asha-RDB hallaa gullaa. Right now I can
listen to them once in a while (my favorite, o hasiinaa zulfon vaalii)
and enjoy them but certainly not as much as a random song from the
thirties. But that's just me :)
Abhijit
> On Jan 13, 7:38 pm, Abhijit <nanhafaris...@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
>
> > RD Burman's music has always been among the most hotly discussed
> > topics in RMIM.
>
> Not really. It hasn't always been a hotly discussed topic. Recently,
> yes.
>
I have witnessed it since I became active in the forum.
Tell you what, I believe many RMIMers do respect RDB as a composer --
some fanatically, some openly, some silently. Of course there are some
staunch haters also.
> Let me offer another theory for the "criticism" of RDB. Criticism
> (scrutiny would be a better word) on RMIM of an artist is usually
> proportional to the outrageous (from the non-fan's POV) claims made by
> that artists' fans (the exception to prove the rule being
> kShanu! :-) ). RDB is certainly not the first MD to be criticized on
> RMIM. Naushad, SJ, Chacha Chaudary, SDB, etc. have all had their
> moment in the sun :-) Of late, the outrageous claims have usually been
> from the RDB camp. Hence, the "criticism" of RDB.
>
I didn't see any provocation that might have led to threads to the
effect that "RDB is inferior to SDB, MM, SalilC, S-J,...", "Burmans -
elder vs younger" or "RDB didn't understand poetry".On the contrary,
these threads with unsubstantiated claims inspired me to start this
thread.
> >Who would worry criticising
> > L-P for example who failed the test of time
>
> Recently, there was an LP fan who surfaced on RMIM. A sharp
> "criticism" of LP followed almost immediately.
>
> BTW, there have been posts on RMIM showing that LP beat RDB in head-to-
> head competition as far as commercial success is concerned.
>
I fully agree. L-P's commercial success cannot be compared with RDB's,
except maybe for 71-75 period. But for time-testedness I rate RDB very
highly and L-P don't even make it to my list of MDs whose songs I
would like to hear repeatedly.
Sunil Dandekar
> The RDBabus consider RDB to be the best thing to happen since rumali
> roti. They cannot believe any human being who has heard RDB's music
> can rank anyone else higher. These zealous missionaries are out to
> save all the souls that have gone astray from the path of RDB. They
> truly believe that these souls are ignorant and an exposure to the
> supreme sun's rays will make them see reason. Little do they know that
> these souls, have been there, heard that and *chosen* to stay away
> from the sun either completely or partially.
>
I agree. But then children of the lesser God are always more
virulent.
RDB's ability to understand poetry has nothing to do with his ability
as a composer. But even that is hotly contested. Obviously the God can
not have even a tiniest blemish.
I am seeing a steady evolution of RDB among his RMIM fans.
Talented composer - Greatest composer - Greatest and commercially
hittest composer - Superman.
Now I am waiting for him to ascend to the prophethood.
regards,
Sunil
Asif
>
> I am seeing a steady evolution of RDB among his RMIM fans.
>
> Talented composer - Greatest composer - Greatest and commercially
> hittest composer - Superman.
>
> Now I am waiting for him to ascend to the prophethood.
>
Just in case you missed it, he is already a God, like Naushad, Shankar-
Jaikishan, Rafi, KK, and A.R. Rahman are. Why blame RDB fans alone?
AR
Since when did these human beings become Gods?
> Why blame RDB fans alone?
>
I notice your usage of the word "alone". Just wondering: are you
trying to say that it is quite okay to blame RDB fans (because you
agree that they aren't being objective in their praise for RDB), as
long as they aren't the only ones being blamed?
kcp
No. I dont think so he tried to say that :-)
Over to you Asif ji
KCP
Asif
I did not mean anything :-) It was just a sarcastic response to a
sarcastic post.
UVR
W-haaaat?!
Now you are saying that you didn't mean that "RDB is god!"
kaise bhakt hai.n aap, Asif saahib, jise apane bhagawaan
se inakaar hai! :-)
-UVR.