Tum Apna Ranj-o-gham....
Neeraj Malhotra
Hi,
I need help with a mystery word.
This song has been my favourite ever since I first heard it,
'tum apna ranj-o-gham, apni pareshaani mujhe de do'
but inspite of hearing it a million times - as the expression goes,
can't figure these words out :
vo dil jo maine maanga tHa magar gairo.n ne paaya tHa,
baDi ............. hai agar, uski pashemaani mujhe de do.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
the missing words :(
Thanks for the help !
--
- Neeraj Malhotra.
Vijay Kumar
Neeraj Malhotra (malh...@bedford.progress.com) wrote:
: vo dil jo maine maanga tHa magar gairo.n ne paaya tHa,
: baDi ............. hai agar, uski pashemaani mujhe de do.
: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"baDi khair ho agar.." ? (If I remeber correctly)
Vijay
Nitin Sharma
Himanshu Gupta (hgu...@Xenon.Stanford.EDU) wrote:
: Man kahta hai main rangon ki
: ek pyaar bhari badlii ban kar
: barsuuN unke jiivan meiN...
: from "Rajnigandha phuul tumhaare...". Lovely song. I think Yogesh
: penned the lyrics for this song(or is it Sameer?).
Sameer?? !
Yogesh it is.
-nitin
Himanshu Gupta
In article <4s0kdg$s...@progress.bedford.progress.com>,
Neeraj Malhotra <malh...@bedford.progress.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I need help with a mystery word.
> This song has been my favourite ever since I first heard it,
Mine too....but only after Sami had once pointed out this beautiful
couplet from the song.....
Main dekhun to sahi duniyaa tumhen kaise sataati hai
Koi din ke liye, apni nigebaani mujhe de do...
Amazing Sahir. I'm assuming nigebaani (or is it nigah-e-baani) means
eyesight. Close but not exact, I think. Can someone provide the exact
word and meaning ?
> 'tum apna ranj-o-gham, apni pareshaani mujhe de do'
>
> but inspite of hearing it a million times - as the expression goes,
> can't figure these words out :
>
> vo dil jo maine maanga tHa magar gairo.n ne paaya tHa,
> baDi ............. hai agar, uski pashemaani mujhe de do.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> the missing words :(
I listened to it again. I think it is "khair"......but not sure. My
recording was pathetic.
Talking of wishes.....another set of lines I recently discovered and
found beautiful.....[Esp. the way lata sings "_Man_ kahtaa
hai".........the voice conveys to much desire mingled with a little
bit of pain (of pleasure). Also, the last line is beautifully rendered. ]
Man kahta hai main rangon ki
ek pyaar bhari badlii ban kar
barsuuN unke jiivan meiN...
from "Rajnigandha phuul tumhaare...". Lovely song. I think Yogesh
penned the lyrics for this song(or is it Sameer?).
Ta ta...
--Himanshu
Snehal B. Oza
>> vo dil jo maine maanga tHa magar gairo.n ne paaya tHa,
>> baDi ............. hai agar, uski pashemaani mujhe de do.
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> the missing words :(
>I listened to it again. I think it is "khair"......but not sure. My
>recording was pathetic.
It's "Badi Khair Ho Agar Uski..."
> Man kahta hai main rangon ki
> ek pyaar bhari badlii ban kar
> barsuuN unke jiivan meiN...
>from "Rajnigandha phuul tumhaare...". Lovely song. I think Yogesh
>penned the lyrics for this song(or is it Sameer?).
^^^^^^^^ Ha Ha!
I doubt if Sameer would have enven reached his teens by then ? Lyrics are by
Yogesh.
Snehal
>Ta ta...
>--Himanshu
Pradeep Dubey
>> bit of pain (of pleasure). Also, the last line is beautifully rendered. ]
>> Man kahta hai main rangon ki
>> ek pyaar bhari badlii ban kar
>> barsuuN unke jiivan meiN...
>> from "Rajnigandha phuul tumhaare...". Lovely song. I think Yogesh
>> penned the lyrics for this song(or is it Sameer?).
Himanshu ...... how could you ever confuse between Yogesh and Sameer.
Sameer writes the present day 'ice cream and mirchi' junk. Whereas,
Yogesh's lyrics in Anand, Mili, Manzil, CSBaat, Rajnigandha are miles-
and-miles-and-miles apart.
Pradeep
P.S. zaroor sazaa milegi ... :-)
Rizwan M. Syed
>Mine too....but only after Sami had once pointed out this beautiful
>couplet from the song.....
> Main dekhun to sahi duniyaa tumhen kaise sataati hai
> Koi din ke liye, apni nigebaani mujhe de do...
>Amazing Sahir. I'm assuming nigebaani (or is it nigah-e-baani) means
>eyesight. Close but not exact, I think. Can someone provide the exact
>word and meaning ?
Haven't heard the song, but.... the word would be..
'Nigehbaani' I guess the closest english term would be 'guardianship'?
If that's a word. Basically the dude's saying that if she allows him to
become her guardian (her caretaker, take care of her) he would never let
anything hurt her. Afterthough... 'Nigehbaan' is someone who 'keeps an
eye' on something. Like a 'maali' can also be called a 'baagh ka
nigehbaan', dig?? :)
Rizwan
Himanshu Gupta
In article <4s5rlo$h...@NNTP.MsState.Edu>,
If "Nigehbaani" does mean something like "guardianship", then I would
be utterly disappointed, to say the least. Instead the word "Eyesight"
or eyes there (as I always took it to be as), makes the sher so
beautiful.........the couplet essentially meaning that I want to see
through your eyes how the world harasses you......expressing the
desire to feel what he feels...the pain.
BTW, the song is sung by a female. So, "guardianship" doesn't really
fit there! But still it seems you are right.
Hamare saath ye duusri baar ho raha hai. On knowing the possibly
"correct" meaning, the couplet has lost all its charm for me. tchh..!
Pahli baar is Ghalib sher par hua tha......
Go haathon mein zambish nahin, aankhon mein to dum hai
Rahne do ye saaghru meena mere aage....
[Go=although; zambish=dum; saaghru meena=glass of wine]
For a few days after I heard this, I was under the impression ki
"saaghru meena" meant some sort of a jewel in all its full
splendor (thanks to Azraji! :)).
--Himanshu
--------------------------------------
Rang hai aankhon ke liye, boo hai damaagon ke liye
Phool ko haath lagaane ki zaroorat kya hai ?
--------------------------------------
Himanshu Gupta
In article <4s5p28$s...@watnews1.watson.ibm.com>,
Pradeep Dubey <pra...@watson.ibm.com> wrote:
>Himanshu ...... how could you ever confuse between Yogesh and Sameer.
>Sameer writes the present day 'ice cream and mirchi' junk. Whereas,
>Yogesh's lyrics in Anand, Mili, Manzil, CSBaat, Rajnigandha are miles-
>and-miles-and-miles apart.
Yes, how did I ?
>Pradeep
>P.S. zaroor sazaa milegi ... :-)
Pradeep bhaiyaa :), galti ho gayi.....maaf kar dijiye!
--Himanshu
Ikram Ahmed Khan
Himanshu Gupta (hgu...@Xenon.Stanford.EDU) wrote:
: In article <4s5rlo$h...@NNTP.MsState.Edu>,
: Rizwan M. Syed <riz...@sparco.com> wrote:
: >In <4s38k8$g...@Radon.Stanford.EDU> hgu...@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Himanshu Gupta) writes:
: >
: >> Main dekhun to sahi duniyaa tumhen kaise sataati hai
: >> Koi din ke liye, apni nigebaani mujhe de do...
: > 'Nigehbaani' I guess the closest english term would be 'guardianship'?
: If "Nigehbaani" does mean something like "guardianship", then I would
: be utterly disappointed, to say the least. Instead the word "Eyesight"
: or eyes there (as I always took it to be as), makes the sher so
: beautiful.........the couplet essentially meaning that I want to see
: through your eyes how the world harasses you......expressing the
: desire to feel what he feels...the pain.
: BTW, the song is sung by a female. So, "guardianship" doesn't really
: fit there! But still it seems you are right.
People often take a wholly different meaning from others. That is one of the
beauties of poetry I guess.
eg. this couplet.
I took it to mean that -
You are tired of being the one to constantly bear the situms of the world.
Let me bear the burden of the pain by becoming your guardian and thus coming
between you and the world and so on etc etc.....
Which was probably based on the usual nigeh-baaN meaning. Btw, Himanshu
remember Khuda nigeh-baaN ho tumhaara from M-E-Azam ?
But a very interesting interpretation by you!!
: Hamare saath ye duusri baar ho raha hai. On knowing the possibly
: "correct" meaning, the couplet has lost all its charm for me. tchh..!
: Pahli baar is Ghalib sher par hua tha......
: Go haathon mein zambish nahin, aankhon mein to dum hai
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Go haath meN jumbish naheeN, ..........
: Rahne do ye saaghru meena mere aage....
~~~~
..abhi saaGHar-o-meena ....
: [Go=although; zambish=dum; saaghru meena=glass of wine]
Btw, has this couplet lost its charm too? I would urge a rethink.
Ostensibly it means,
[My condition is such] that I don't have any strength in my hand
[due to excessive drinking]
[but] my eyes can still function....
Let the wine-goblet remain in front of me for some more time.
Apna modern guzzel-lover might think this to be a great guzzling guzzel, but
one possible interpretation might be that he is referring to the beloved's
eyes as the wine goblet. In which case, it is the classic case of "Abhi na
jao chhoDkar". Or it could be taken to mean that he is talking of the
tendency in man that even when he knows a certain feat is unachievable, he
will still be loathe to move on. God and Ghalib alone know all the meanings
that can be taken from this and many other of his couplets.
Later,
Ikram.
: --Himanshu
Kuntal Shah
>>>>> "Ikram" == Ikram Ahmed Khan <iak...@eesun2.tamu.edu> writes:
Ikram> Which was probably based on the usual nigeh-baaN
Ikram> meaning. Btw, Himanshu remember Khuda nigeh-baaN ho
Ikram> tumhaara from M-E-Azam ?
And not to forget "tera allah nigeh-baaN" from Henna !
--
-Kuntal.
______________________________________________________________________
| ro ro ke tumheN khat likhti hooN
| aur khud padhkar ro leti hooN
| - Amrita Preetam / Sahir Ludhiyanavi (?)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
* They keep saying the right person will be coming along.
I think mine got hit by a truck.
Kuntal Shah
>>>>> "Pradeep" == Pradeep Dubey <pra...@watson.ibm.com> writes:
Pradeep> Himanshu ...... how could you ever confuse between Yogesh
Pradeep> and Sameer.
Pradeep> zaroor sazaa milegi ... :-)
Baraabar milegi..... :-)
Nilesh Savargaonkar
>> Main dekhun to sahi duniyaa tumhen kaise sataati hai
>> Koi din ke liye, apni nigebaani mujhe de do...
> Haven't heard the song, but.... the word would be..
> 'Nigehbaani' I guess the closest english term would be 'guardianship'?
> If that's a word. Basically the dude's saying that if she allows him to
> become her guardian (her caretaker, take care of her) he would never let
> anything hurt her. Afterthough... 'Nigehbaan' is someone who 'keeps an
> eye' on something. Like a 'maali' can also be called a 'baagh ka
> nigehbaan', dig?? :)
From the meaning of 'nigehbaani' as explained above, I would interpret the lines
as follows: "Let me take care of you for few days (look after you??) and then
let's see how the world harasses you.i.e. I won't let others harass you."
- Nilesh
Pradeep Dubey
In article <4s609o$e...@Radon.Stanford.EDU>, hgu...@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Himanshu Gupta) writes:
|> In article <4s5rlo$h...@NNTP.MsState.Edu>,
|> Rizwan M. Syed <riz...@sparco.com> wrote:
|> >In <4s38k8$g...@Radon.Stanford.EDU> hgu...@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Himanshu Gupta) writes:
|> >
|> >
|> >>couplet from the song.....
|> >
|> >> Koi din ke liye, apni nigebaani mujhe de do...
|> >
|> >>eyesight. Close but not exact, I think. Can someone provide the exact
|> >>word and meaning ?
|> >
|> > 'Nigehbaani' I guess the closest english term would be 'guardianship'?
|> > If that's a word. Basically the dude's saying that if she allows him to
|> > become her guardian (her caretaker, take care of her) he would never let
|> > anything hurt her. Afterthough... 'Nigehbaan' is someone who 'keeps an
|> > eye' on something. Like a 'maali' can also be called a 'baagh ka
|> > nigehbaan', dig?? :)
|>
|> be utterly disappointed, to say the least. Instead the word "Eyesight"
|> or eyes there (as I always took it to be as), makes the sher so
|> beautiful.........the couplet essentially meaning that I want to see
|> through your eyes how the world harasses you......expressing the
|> desire to feel what he feels...the pain.
|>
|> BTW, the song is sung by a female. So, "guardianship" doesn't really
|> fit there! But still it seems you are right.
Himanshu,
When you are reading non-G(ulzar) lyricists, IMHO you should
stick to straightforward meanings, as in the case above:
dekhte hain koi tumko tang kaise kartaa hai
hamen apni darwaani de do ... dande maar bhagaaoonga ...
:-)
Pradeep
P.S. It's a fantastic song ... but assuming your lyrics
are correct (my memory confirms that too), I am quite annoyed
at poor grammatical innovations such as: 'KOI din ke liye' :-)
Rizwan M. Syed
>|> >> Main dekhun to sahi duniyaa tumhen kaise sataati hai
>|> >> Koi din ke liye, apni nigebaani mujhe de do...
>|> >
>|> If "Nigehbaani" does mean something like "guardianship", then I would
>|> be utterly disappointed, to say the least. Instead the word "Eyesight"
>|> or eyes there (as I always took it to be as), makes the sher so
>|> beautiful.........the couplet essentially meaning that I want to see
>|> through your eyes how the world harasses you......expressing the
>|> desire to feel what he feels...the pain.
But what good could be accomplished by just seeing the other's pain
through his/her eyes?? I still think that its BEAUTIFUL shaayari...
as she doesn't just want to feel his hardships/troubles/pains along
with him, but rather, wants to block them off for him, or protect him
against them, if you will. Who sings the song?? Now I wanna listen
to it.. :)
>|> BTW, the song is sung by a female. So, "guardianship" doesn't really
>|> fit there! But still it seems you are right.
Heh, sure it does... Remember that we are in the new age of enlightenment,
or something like that.. :) Surely if something can be implied to a
man, it can also be implied to a woman, a la Madhuri in 'Anjaam'??? *grin*
>Pradeep
>P.S. It's a fantastic song ... but assuming your lyrics
>are correct (my memory confirms that too), I am quite annoyed
>at poor grammatical innovations such as: 'KOI din ke liye' :-)
Pradeep,
If you have the song, could you please listen to it and let me
know if its actualy 'Kuch din kay liye', instead of 'koi din kay liye'?
I fail to understand why they'd do that. Changing the words around like
that is justifiable when the other word wouldn't fit, but here 'kuch'
sounds fine, so I don't understand why they'd do that?
Later,
Rizwan
Pintu Diwana aka ShashiKant Joshi
In <article 44685> of pra...@watson.ibm.com writes:
>In article <4s609o$e...@Radon.Stanford.EDU>, hgu...@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Himanshu Gupta) writes:
>|> In article <4s5rlo$h...@NNTP.MsState.Edu>,
>|> Rizwan M. Syed <riz...@sparco.com> wrote:
>|> >In <4s38k8$g...@Radon.Stanford.EDU> hgu...@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Himanshu Gupta) writes:
>|> >
>|> >
>|> >>Mine too....but only after Sami had once pointed out this beautiful
>|> >>couplet from the song.....
>|> >
>|> >> Koi din ke liye, apni nigebaani mujhe de do...
>|> >
[snip]
>:-)
>
>Pradeep
>P.S. It's a fantastic song ... but assuming your lyrics
>are correct (my memory confirms that too), I am quite annoyed
>at poor grammatical innovations such as: 'KOI din ke liye' :-)
This song was in PRsPD #22 as well. Here is the excrpt:
From rava...@gold.tc.umn.edu Sun May 7 22:46:44 CDT 1995
Article: 27170 of rec.music.indian.misc
Path: newsstand.tc.umn.edu!not-for-mail
From: rava...@gold.tc.umn.edu (Sivakumar Ravada)
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.misc
Subject: Pankha Road se Pintu Diwana [22]
Date: 7 May 1995 22:46:13 -0500
Organization: University of Minnesota
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <3ok465$6...@gold.tc.umn.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gold.tc.umn.edu
Xref: newsstand.tc.umn.edu rec.music.indian.misc:27170
=============================================================
#22
Song : tum apnaa ranj-o-Gham, apanee pareshaanee mujhe de do
Film : Shagun
*ing : ?
Singer : Jagjit Kaur
Lyrics : ?
MD : ?
Note : RJGK 21 (Non Mangeshkar sisters) clue
some parts missing, this is more for nostalgic reasons
and that it was in RJGK 21. The words may not seem much
captivating as is. But another song of this movie, in RJGK 22
is out of the world! :-)))
tum apnaa ranj-o-Gham, apanee pareshaanee mujhe de do
tumhe Gham kee kasam, ... ? ...
ye maanaa maiN kisee kaabil naheeN hooN in nigaahoN meN x2
buraa kyaa hai agar ye dukh ye hairaanee mujhe de do
maiN dekhooN to sahee, duniyaa tumheN kaise sataatee hai x2
ko-ee din ke liye, apanee nigehbaanee mujhe de do
wo dil jo maiN-ne maaNgaa thaa magar gairoN ne paayaa x2
baD.ee inaayat(?) hai agar, uskee pashemaanee mujhe de do
-- ShashiKant Joshi urf Pintu Diwana
Nitin Sharma
Pintu Diwana aka ShashiKant Joshi (rava...@gold.tc.umn.edu) wrote:
: Song : tum apnaa ranj-o-Gham, apanee pareshaanee mujhe de do
: Film : Shagun
: *ing : ?
: Singer : Jagjit Kaur
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: Lyrics : ?
: MD : ?
Welcome back, Pintu!
I remember AIR crediting the song to Mubarak Begum.
Mubarak begum, i believe, is khaiyyam's wife.
i've also heard jagjit kaur is also khaiyyam's wife.
Are mubarak begum and jagjit kaur the same? (ie, jagjit kaur changed
her name to mubarak begum - they are required to do so in islam)
Or is it just a speculation on my part?
In that case, who is the actual singer - jagjit kaur or mubarak begum?
-nitin
ps: MD is khaiyyam for the above song, i think.
Ikram Ahmed Khan
Pradeep Dubey (pra...@watson.ibm.com) wrote:
: ghar se nikalate hi, kuchh door chalate hi, raste mein hai uska ghar
: kal subaha dekhaa to, BAAL banaati wo, khiDki mein aayii nazar
: That 'baal' (uppercase above) word is just one 'matraa' short, and
: the imperfect fit is IMHO quite disturbing. If you sing it with
: 'baalee' (or some such word), the fit will be perfect. I don't
Doesn't Udit sing it as 'baala'? Like in 'arjuna'?
Later,
Ikram.
: quite know who to put the blame on, the lyricist or the MD. Often
: MDs can hide these unequal weights with tricks which extend
: wights other places. In this case RR didn't quite do that right.
: Pradeep
Harish Suvarna
pra...@watson.ibm.com (Pradeep Dubey) wrote:
>
>ghar se nikalate hi, kuchh door chalate hi, raste mein hai uska ghar
>kal subaha dekhaa to, BAAL banaati wo, khiDki mein aayii nazar
>
>That 'baal' (uppercase above) word is just one 'matraa' short, and
>the imperfect fit is IMHO quite disturbing. If you sing it with
>'baalee' (or some such word), the fit will be perfect. I don't
>quite know who to put the blame on, the lyricist or the MD. Often
>MDs can hide these unequal weights with tricks which extend
>wights other places. In this case RR didn't quite do that right.
>
>Pradeep
>
I heard the 'Baal' as 'Baaluu' to adjust to the maatra. 'uu' was used as
a filler. Is it not correct?
--
Harish Suvarna
su...@mti.sgi.com
Preetham Gopalaswamy
Vijay Kumar (vi...@news.eecs.nwu.edu) wrote :
> Jagjit Kaur in "parbaton ke pedon pe sham ka basera hai", "dekhlo aaj
> humko jee bhar ke", "gori sasural chali", etc. Two very different
> voices.
"ParbatoN ke peDoN par" is sung by Suman Kalyanpur, not Jagjit Kaur. The
latter also sang the song "LaDi re laDi" in "Shola Aur Shabnam".
> Jagjit Kaur _is_ Khaiyyam's wife. That Mubarak Begum is his wife I
> have heard stated only once: by Siddharth Basu in Quiz Time. This is
> did in the process of crediting "tum apna ranj-o-gham" to "Mubarak
> Begum, Khaiyyam's wife". There is certainly one mistake in that
> statement, and there may be two.
There is just the 1 error in that answer. The singer is Jagjit Kaur, not
Mubarak Begum. This was perhaps one of her best songs.
P
Pradeep Dubey
>> Pradeep,
>> If you have the song, could you please listen to it and let me
>> know if its actualy 'Kuch din kay liye', instead of 'koi din kay liye'?
>> I fail to understand why they'd do that. Changing the words around like
>> that is justifiable when the other word wouldn't fit, but here 'kuch'
>> sounds fine, so I don't understand why they'd do that?
Rizwan,
Most probably I don't have this song but I know someone who has been
singing this song for many-many years. So I will re-confirm. Others
with access to the song, please do the same.
However, in this specific case, perhaps 'kisi' would be a
better substitute for 'koi' as it can be sung with the
same weight, 'kuch' is half the weight.
Talking about song lines with unequal 'weights' (I am sure techies
on the net would find me the right word), a recent example
can be found in 'papa kahate hain' song:
ghar se nikalate hi, kuchh door chalate hi, raste mein hai uska ghar
kal subaha dekhaa to, BAAL banaati wo, khiDki mein aayii nazar
That 'baal' (uppercase above) word is just one 'matraa' short, and
the imperfect fit is IMHO quite disturbing. If you sing it with
'baalee' (or some such word), the fit will be perfect. I don't
quite know who to put the blame on, the lyricist or the MD. Often
MDs can hide these unequal weights with tricks which extend
wights other places. In this case RR didn't quite do that right.
Pradeep
>> Later,
>> Rizwan
U.V. Ravindra
In article <4slikv$1a...@watnews1.watson.ibm.com>
pra...@watson.ibm.com (Pradeep Dubey) writes:
=> >> Pradeep,
=> >> If you have the song, could you please listen to it and let me
=> >> know if its actualy 'Kuch din kay liye', instead of 'koi din kay liye'?
=> >> I fail to understand why they'd do that. Changing the words around like
=> >> that is justifiable when the other word wouldn't fit, but here 'kuch'
=> >> sounds fine, so I don't understand why they'd do that?
=>
=> Rizwan,
=> Most probably I don't have this song but I know someone who has been
=> singing this song for many-many years. So I will re-confirm. Others
=> with access to the song, please do the same.
=>
=> However, in this specific case, perhaps 'kisi' would be a
=> better substitute for 'koi' as it can be sung with the
=> same weight, 'kuch' is half the weight.
I have been following this discussion with a great amount of interest,
and I think now is the right time to jump in with a few thoughts of my
own, even if they be only 2c thoughts (which they mostly are)
;-)))))))))).
The phrase 'koi din', awkward as it may sound, is quite a valid phrase
in Urdu, and means something similar to 'kisi din'. It's a phrase
commonly used in poetry, but almost never in prose/spoken language,
which compels me to deduce that it's one of those "to-be-used-by-
poets-only" phrases. Many classical sh'ura (pl. of shaa'ir) have used
this phrase, including Meer, Momin, Ghalib, etc. A sh'er from
Ghalib's GHazal 'hAI bas ke har ek un ke ishArE meiN nishAN AUr' will
exemplify my point:
hAI bas ke har ek un ke ishArE meiN nishAN AUr
kartE haiN muhabbat to guzartA hai gumAN AUr
...
lEtA, na agar dil tumhEN dEtA, koi dam chAIn
kartA, jo na martA, koi din aah-o-fuGHaaN aur
The use of 'koi dam', and 'koi din' should adequately clarify doubts
as to the validity, useability and grammatical correctness of these
phrases.
=> Talking about song lines with unequal 'weights' (I am sure techies
=> on the net would find me the right word), a recent example
=> can be found in 'papa kahate hain' song:
I believe the word that you are groping for, sir, is 'behr'.
=> ghar se nikalate hi, kuchh door chalate hi, raste mein hai uska ghar
=> kal subaha dekhaa to, BAAL banaati wo, khiDki mein aayii nazar
=>
=> That 'baal' (uppercase above) word is just one 'matraa' short, and
=> the imperfect fit is IMHO quite disturbing. If you sing it with
=> 'baalee' (or some such word), the fit will be perfect. I don't
=> quite know who to put the blame on, the lyricist or the MD. Often
=> MDs can hide these unequal weights with tricks which extend
=> wights other places. In this case RR didn't quite do that right.
The case with composing music for film songs is usually that the tune
is composed BEFORE the lyrics are completely written. In very few
cases it happens that the lyrics are written before the music is
composed. In many cases, music directors (even foremost MDs like
Naushad, SDB, MM, and even Salil-da) compose the music in advance of
writing even one word of the lyrics. In modern times, Rahman does
this very frequently. This is most probably the case with the 'baal
banaati' song, too ;-). At most, what could have happened would have
been that the first line (ghar se nikalte, etc) would have been
written by Javed Akhtar and RR would have tuned that ONE LINE. Then,
Javed would have written the next line, and, unable to find any other
similie that enthralls (other than 'baal banaana', of course) used
this phrase. Of course, he screwed up the behr, but ...
aap be_behrah haiN jo motakId-e-mIr nahiN
said Ghalib!
=> Pradeep
=>
=> >> Later,
=> >> Rizwan
Ravindra.
Yes, I know my statements are going to lead to more
discussion. That's why I changed the 'Subject' ;-)
Vandana Venkatesan
Preetham Gopalaswamy (pree...@connectinc.com) wrote:
=> > Jagjit Kaur _is_ Khaiyyam's wife. That Mubarak Begum is his wife
=> > I have heard stated only once: by Siddharth Basu in Quiz Time. This
is
=> > did in the process of crediting "tum apna ranj-o-gham" to "Mubarak
=> > Begum, Khaiyyam's wife". There is certainly one mistake in that
=> > statement, and there may be two.
=>
=> There is just the 1 error in that answer. The singer is Jagjit Kaur, not
=> Mubarak Begum. This was perhaps one of her best songs.
Look at it really really closely. There are 2 errors. One, that Mubarak Begum
is Khaiyyam's wife and two, that she sang "Tum apna ranj-O-gham". Jagjit
Kaur is the correction for both errors. So that makes it one error, maybe.
"Tum apna ranj-O-gham" is also one of Jagjit Kaur's very few solo efforts
(and probably her best like you say). I can just think of one more from
"Bazaar" - "Dekh lo aaj humko jee bhar ke". She sings another song with a
"Punjabi" beat in the same movie ("Shagun") which goes "Dekho dekho ji gori
sasuraal chali, doli saj gayi shagunon waali" but it is a chorus with someone
else, and it is just okay, certainly not her best.
Vandana.
Vijay Kumar
Nitin Sharma (ni...@cs.washington.edu) wrote:
: : Song : tum apnaa ranj-o-Gham, apanee pareshaanee mujhe de do
: : Film : Shagun
: : *ing : ?
: : Singer : Jagjit Kaur
: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: : Lyrics : ?
: : MD : ?
: I remember AIR crediting the song to Mubarak Begum.
: Mubarak begum, i believe, is khaiyyam's wife.
: i've also heard jagjit kaur is also khaiyyam's wife.
: Are mubarak begum and jagjit kaur the same? (ie, jagjit kaur changed
: her name to mubarak begum - they are required to do so in islam)
No, these are two very different singers. Mubarak Begum is the voice
in "hum haal-e-dil sunayenge", "mujhko apne gale lagalo" and "kabhi tanhaiyon
mein hamari yaad aayegi". Jagjit Kaur in "parbaton ke pedon pe sham ka
basera hai", "dekhlo aaj humko jee bhar ke", "gori sasural chali", etc.
Two very different voices.
Jagjit Kaur _is_ Khaiyyam's wife. That Mubarak Begum is his wife I have
heard stated only once: by Siddharth Basu in Quiz Time. This is did in the
process of crediting "tum apna ranj-o-gham" to "Mubarak Begum, Khaiyyam's
wife". There is certainly one mistake in that statement, and there may be
two.
Vijay
Satish Subramanian
Himanshu Gupta (hgu...@Xenon.Stanford.EDU) wrote:
>> Main dekhun to sahi duniyaa tumhen kaise sataati hai
>> Koi din ke liye, apni nigebaani mujhe de do...
>> 'Nigehbaani' I guess the closest english term would be 'guardianship'?
> If "Nigehbaani" does mean something like "guardianship", then I
> would be utterly disappointed, to say the least. Instead the word
> "Eyesight" or eyes there (as I always took it to be as), makes the
> sher so beautiful.. the couplet essentially meaning that I want to
> see through your eyes how the world harasses you.. expressing the
> desire to feel what he feels.. the pain.
The interpretation that you want can be found (not exactly the same
meaning but somewhat similar) in the Mukesh's solo 'ram kare aisa ho
jaaye' from "Milan" (LP). The first stanza starts with:
"guzar jaaye, chhubte teri, dukh bhari ratiyaan
badal loon main tose akhiyaan."
The lyrics are by Anand Bakshi. I think, this stanza is not found in
most of the available recordings. The two well-known stanzas of this
song are "sapna chala, aaya koi, chori chori" and "main hi nahi, tu hi
nahi, saara jamaana".
Also, I guess, from nigeh-baani comes the commonly used word 'nigraani'?
> --Himanshu
--
bye
satish
Himanshu Gupta
In article <4snq4u$e...@epx.cis.umn.edu>,
Satish Subramanian <subr...@cs.umn.edu> wrote:
>
>
>Himanshu Gupta (hgu...@Xenon.Stanford.EDU) wrote:
>
>>> Main dekhun to sahi duniyaa tumhen kaise sataati hai
>>> Koi din ke liye, apni nigebaani mujhe de do...
>
>>> 'Nigehbaani' I guess the closest english term would be 'guardianship'?
>
>> If "Nigehbaani" does mean something like "guardianship", then I
>> would be utterly disappointed, to say the least. Instead the word
>> "Eyesight" or eyes there (as I always took it to be as), makes the
>> sher so beautiful.. the couplet essentially meaning that I want to
>> see through your eyes how the world harasses you.. expressing the
>> desire to feel what he feels.. the pain.
>
>The interpretation that you want can be found (not exactly the same
>meaning but somewhat similar) in the Mukesh's solo 'ram kare aisa ho
>jaaye' from "Milan" (LP). The first stanza starts with:
>
> "guzar jaaye, chhubte teri, dukh bhari ratiyaan
> badal loon main tose akhiyaan."
Correcting one mistake and completing the stanza....
Guzar jaayeN, **sukh** se teri dukh bharii ratiyaaN
badal luuN maiN toh se akhiiyaaN
bas mein agar hoN ye batiyaaN
maaNguu duaayeN haath uthaaye
meri nindiyaa tohe lag jaaye....
Now that you have broached the topic again, there is something else
which comes to my mind........
Terii aankhoN se saaraa sansaar meiN dekhuNgi
nainaa su.ndar sapano.n ke jharokhe ban jaauu.ngii
from "jhil mil sitaaron ka aaNgan hoga" [Jeevan Mrityu, Rafi-Lata, LP,
Anand Bakshi]. Nice dream. I liked the picturization too. But once
again (as in "Ram kare..."), though the song's mukhDaa potrays a
wonderful feeling/wish, overall the lyrics are disappointing.
--Himanshu
Rizwan M. Syed
> Terii aankhoN se saaraa sansaar meiN dekhuNgi
> nainaa su.ndar sapano.n ke jharokhe ban jaauu.ngii
One stanza goes:
Teri aankho.n se saaraa sansaar mei.n dekhu.n gee
Dekho.n gee is paar yaa uus paar mei.n dekhu.n gee
Neno.n ko teraa hee darshun(?) ho gaa....
The other one is :
Phir toa must havaao.n kay hum jhonkay bun jaae.n gay
Nainaa sundar sapno.n kay, jharoke ban jaae.n gay
Mun aashaao.n kaa darpun(?) ho gaa....
>from "jhil mil sitaaron ka aaNgan hoga" [Jeevan Mrityu, Rafi-Lata, LP,
>Anand Bakshi]. Nice dream. I liked the picturization too. But once
>again (as in "Ram kare..."), though the song's mukhDaa potrays a
>wonderful feeling/wish, overall the lyrics are disappointing.
Now, I'm not too clear on the point you were trying to make with
this thing. Can you please elaborate?
Rizwan
Rizwan M. Syed
>Also, I guess, from nigeh-baani comes the commonly used word 'nigraani'?
Comparing Oranges and Tangerines, I'm afraid. :) 'Nigraani' specifically
means 'to keep watch', as apposed to 'take care off', or 'guardianship',
for 'nigeh-baani'. A 'chauki-daar' would also be called a 'nigraan',
or I guess a better example would be of a security guard, who'd be called
a 'nigraan', but never a 'nigehbaan'. Dig?
Rizwan
Pradeep Dubey
In article <4snq4u$e...@epx.cis.umn.edu>, subr...@cs.umn.edu (Satish Subramanian) writes:
|>
|>
|> Himanshu Gupta (hgu...@Xenon.Stanford.EDU) wrote:
|>
|> >> Main dekhun to sahi duniyaa tumhen kaise sataati hai
|> >> Koi din ke liye, apni nigebaani mujhe de do...
|>
|> >> 'Nigehbaani' I guess the closest english term would be 'guardianship'?
|>
|> > If "Nigehbaani" does mean something like "guardianship", then I
|> > would be utterly disappointed, to say the least. Instead the word
|> > "Eyesight" or eyes there (as I always took it to be as), makes the
|> > sher so beautiful.. the couplet essentially meaning that I want to
|> > see through your eyes how the world harasses you.. expressing the
|> > desire to feel what he feels.. the pain.
|>
|> The interpretation that you want can be found (not exactly the same
|> meaning but somewhat similar) in the Mukesh's solo 'ram kare aisa ho
|> jaaye' from "Milan" (LP). The first stanza starts with:
|>
|> "guzar jaaye, chhubte teri, dukh bhari ratiyaan
I always thought it was: 'sukh mein (se ?) teri',
Pradeep
|> badal loon main tose akhiyaan."
|>
|>
|> The lyrics are by Anand Bakshi. I think, this stanza is not found in
|> most of the available recordings. The two well-known stanzas of this
|> song are "sapna chala, aaya koi, chori chori" and "main hi nahi, tu hi
|> nahi, saara jamaana".
|>
|> Also, I guess, from nigeh-baani comes the commonly used word 'nigraani'?
|>
|> > --Himanshu
|>
|> --
|> bye
|> satish
|>
|>
Ashok
In article <UVR.96Ju...@mantest.vnet.ibm.com>, u...@vnet.ibm.com says...
>
>The phrase 'koi din', awkward as it may sound, is quite a valid phrase
>in Urdu, and means something similar to 'kisi din'. It's a phrase
>commonly used in poetry, but almost never in prose/spoken language,
>which compels me to deduce that it's one of those "to-be-used-by-
>poets-only" phrases. Many classical sh'ura (pl. of shaa'ir) have used
>this phrase, including Meer, Momin, Ghalib, etc. A sh'er from
>Ghalib's GHazal 'hAI bas ke har ek un ke ishArE meiN nishAN AUr' will
>exemplify my point:
>
> hAI bas ke har ek un ke ishArE meiN nishAN AUr
> kartE haiN muhabbat to guzartA hai gumAN AUr
>
> ...
>
> lEtA, na agar dil tumhEN dEtA, koi dam chAIn
> kartA, jo na martA, koi din aah-o-fuGHaaN aur
>
>The use of 'koi dam', and 'koi din' should adequately clarify doubts
>as to the validity, useability and grammatical correctness of these
>phrases.
>
>
You haven't answered the right question, Ravindra! There is no problem
with the phrase 'koi din' itself. The use of 'koi' as an adjective for
a thing or person is too frequent to raise questions of grammar. Nor do
I find it awkward. Some common examples from different lyricists:
. koi saaghar dil ko behalaata nahi.n (Shakeel)
. saathi na koi manzil, diyaa hai na koi mehfil (Majrooh)
. phir kahi.n koi phool khila (Kapil Kumar)
. chup chup khaDe ho, zaroor koi baat hai (Rajinder Krishan)
. tere binaa zindagi se koi shikavaa to nahi.n (Sameer ?)
In all these examples, note that the noun following 'koi' does not take
on any case inflection. The problem with the way we have interpreted the
Sahir line in 'tum apnaa ranj-o-Gam' is, I think the phrase 'koi din ke liye'
is ungrammatical. I think 'koi' should become 'kisi' once you have 'ke liye'
after 'din.' As I understand it, the usage is parallel to the following:
ye dil na hotaa bechaara
but
is dil se teri yaad bhulaai nahi.n jaati.
To say 'koi din ke liye' is equivalent to saying 'ye dil se teri yaad.'
I don't think Sahir would take the route of violating grammar (that too, in
an uninteresting and inelegant way) to show his creativity! I have a feeling
we are not interpreting the line properly.
I have two other problems with the lyrics of this song (for convenience, I
am reproducing the version in ISB below). First of these is a return to the
question raised by Neeraj Malhotra when she started this thread. In the line
ba.DI ?? hai agar, usakI pashemaanI mujhe de do
ISB says the word is 'inaayat' and the earlier consensus seemed to be that it
is 'khair'. I am not convinced. 'khair' would seem to fit in terms of meaning,
but I keep hearing something close to 'faiq'. I hope someone evaluates the
relative merit of these alternatives.
Finally, in the second line
tumhe.n Gam kii qasam, is dil kI vIrAnI mujhe de do (?)
I am not sure that it is 'tumhe Gam ki qasam'. Soory, I have no alternative
to offer! It does not sound right, and I feel Sahir would do something
better than that!
Ashok
Here's the lyric contributed by Shashikant Joshi.
tum apanaa ra.nj\-o\-Gam, apanI pareshaanI mujhe de do
tumhe.n Gam kii qasam, is dil kI vIrAnI mujhe de do (?)
ye maanaa mai.n kisii qaabil nahii.n huu.N in nigaaho.n me.n \- 2
buraa kyaa hai agar, ye dukh ye hairaanI mujhe de do
tum apanaa \threedots
mai.n dekhuu.n to sahii, duniyaa tumhe.n kaise sataatI hai \- 2
koI din ke liye, apanI nigahabaanI mujhe de do
tum apanaa \threedots
vo dil jo maine maa.ngaa thaa magar gairo.n ne paayaa \- 2
ba.DI inaayat hai agar, usakI pashemaanI mujhe de do
tum apanaa \threedots
Ashok
In article <960718114...@frx290.fm.intel.com>, vven...@pcocd2.intel.com
says...
>
>Preetham Gopalaswamy (pree...@connectinc.com) wrote:
>
>=> > did in the process of crediting "tum apna ranj-o-gham" to "Mubarak
>=> > Begum, Khaiyyam's wife". There is certainly one mistake in that
>=> > statement, and there may be two.
>=>
>=> There is just the 1 error in that answer. The singer is Jagjit Kaur, not
>=> Mubarak Begum. This was perhaps one of her best songs.
>
>Look at it really really closely. There are 2 errors. One, that Mubarak Begum
>is Khaiyyam's wife and two, that she sang "Tum apna ranj-O-gham". Jagjit
>Kaur is the correction for both errors. So that makes it one error, maybe.
>
What'd happen if one looked at it really really really closely? Will there be
three errors? :) :) :)
Seriously, Vandana, I liked your answer to Preetham's objection. It was
extremely well-diagnosed and -expressed.
Inteestingly, the film also features Mubarak Begum. There is a lovely Talat-
Mubarak duet
itani qareeb aake bhi kya jaane kis liye
kuchh ajnabi se aap hain, kuchh ajnabi se ham
Ashok
PS: Have a good time at the Meet. And I hope you'd put your writing skills
to work. Note that unless a posting about the Meet generates more action than the
Desert Island thread on the net, your Meet will be considered a failure. :) :) :) :)
Pradeep Dubey
In article <4slpqg$5...@fido.asd.sgi.com>, Harish Suvarna <su...@mti.sgi.com> writes:
|> pra...@watson.ibm.com (Pradeep Dubey) wrote:
|>
|> >
|> >ghar se nikalate hi, kuchh door chalate hi, raste mein hai uska ghar
|> >
|> >
|> >
|>
|> I heard the 'Baal' as 'Baaluu' to adjust to the maatra. 'uu' was used as
|> a filler. Is it not correct?
HArish,
I will listen to it more carefully next time, but I don't recall
the 'uu' filler. Also, it would be a funny filler, as 'baaluu'
means 'sand' :-)
Pradeep
|>
|>
|> --
|> Harish Suvarna
|> su...@mti.sgi.com
|>
Pradeep Dubey
In article <UVR.96Ju...@mantest.vnet.ibm.com>, u...@vnet.ibm.com (U.V. Ravindra) writes:
|>
|> In article <4slikv$1a...@watnews1.watson.ibm.com>
|> pra...@watson.ibm.com (Pradeep Dubey) writes:
|>
|> => >> Pradeep,
|> => >> If you have the song, could you please listen to it and let me
|> => >> know if its actualy 'Kuch din kay liye', instead of 'koi din kay liye'?
|> => >> I fail to understand why they'd do that. Changing the words around like
|> => >> that is justifiable when the other word wouldn't fit, but here 'kuch'
|> => >> sounds fine, so I don't understand why they'd do that?
|> =>
|> => Rizwan,
|> => Most probably I don't have this song but I know someone who has been
|> => singing this song for many-many years. So I will re-confirm. Others
|> => with access to the song, please do the same.
|> =>
|> => However, in this specific case, perhaps 'kisi' would be a
|> => better substitute for 'koi' as it can be sung with the
|> => same weight, 'kuch' is half the weight.
|>
|> I have been following this discussion with a great amount of interest,
|> and I think now is the right time to jump in with a few thoughts of my
|> own, even if they be only 2c thoughts (which they mostly are)
|> ;-)))))))))).
|>
|> in Urdu, and means something similar to 'kisi din'. It's a phrase
|> commonly used in poetry, but almost never in prose/spoken language,
|> which compels me to deduce that it's one of those "to-be-used-by-
|> poets-only" phrases. Many classical sh'ura (pl. of shaa'ir) have used
|> this phrase, including Meer, Momin, Ghalib, etc. A sh'er from
|> Ghalib's GHazal 'hAI bas ke har ek un ke ishArE meiN nishAN AUr' will
|> exemplify my point:
|>
|> hAI bas ke har ek un ke ishArE meiN nishAN AUr
|> kartE haiN muhabbat to guzartA hai gumAN AUr
|>
|> ...
|>
|> lEtA, na agar dil tumhEN dEtA, koi dam chAIn
|> kartA, jo na martA, koi din aah-o-fuGHaaN aur
|>
|> The use of 'koi dam', and 'koi din' should adequately clarify doubts
|> as to the validity, useability and grammatical correctness of these
|> phrases.
|>
Thanks for your input Ravindra. I guess that settles it.
I was trying to give credit to Sahir for this grammatical
innovation (irrespective of its awkwardness). But it seems
even in this case perhaps the innovator was a 'G' :-)
(the other 'G').
(Sami ... I tried )
|> => Talking about song lines with unequal 'weights' (I am sure techies
|> => on the net would find me the right word), a recent example
|> => can be found in 'papa kahate hain' song:
|>
|> I believe the word that you are groping for, sir, is 'behr'.
|>
|> => ghar se nikalate hi, kuchh door chalate hi, raste mein hai uska ghar
|> => kal subaha dekhaa to, BAAL banaati wo, khiDki mein aayii nazar
|> =>
|> => That 'baal' (uppercase above) word is just one 'matraa' short, and
|> => the imperfect fit is IMHO quite disturbing. If you sing it with
|> => 'baalee' (or some such word), the fit will be perfect. I don't
|> => quite know who to put the blame on, the lyricist or the MD. Often
|> => MDs can hide these unequal weights with tricks which extend
|> => wights other places. In this case RR didn't quite do that right.
|>
|> The case with composing music for film songs is usually that the tune
|> is composed BEFORE the lyrics are completely written. In very few
I agree. I personally think both lyrics and music are equally important
(at least) and one must not always precede the other, kabi lyrics
'ghoDa' and music 'gaaDi', kabhi vice versa. The bottomline
is the final product.
Pradeep
Rizwan M. Syed
>ghar se nikalate hi, kuchh door chalate hi, raste mein hai uska ghar
>kal subaha dekhaa to, BAAL banaati wo, khiDki mein aayii nazar
>That 'baal' (uppercase above) word is just one 'matraa' short, and
>the imperfect fit is IMHO quite disturbing. If you sing it with
>'baalee' (or some such word), the fit will be perfect. I don't
Hmm, they could have used 'zulfei.n' but that won't fit... I
guess they could use 'gaysoo', but 'gaysoo banaana' won't work,
since 'banaana' is only used with 'baal'. Hmm.. dunno, I guess
THAT is the reason they decided to go with the wrong weight. :)
Rizwan
guri
Hi guys!
I've followed this thread with interest and have been lazy about participating...Ashok's post has finally
nudged me enough :) So, here's my 2c. worth:
Ashok says:
1.> we are not interpreting the line properly.
==> mai.n dekhoo.n to sahI, duniyaa tumhe.n kaise sataatI hai
koyi din ke liye apanI nigehbaanI mujhe de do
That's what he wrote. The interpretation, simply, is the one that does
make the grammatical *variance* look unnecessary on the surface.
*Let me look out for you for a while, let me just see how these people
(can continue to) agonize you.*
I say that -on the surface- it looks as if -kisi din ke liye- would've
been as effective, so why -koyi din ke kiye-? Well, could it be that this
is the only way to convey -kuchh din- and -kisi din- together?!
2.> ba.DI ?? hai agar, usakI pashemaanI mujhe de do
==> The word is -shai-
vo dil jo maine maa.ngaa tHaa magar gHairo.n ne paayaa tHaa x2
baDee shai hai agar usakI pashemaanI mujhe de do
*(Even though) others got what I'd asked for - your love, your confidence,
I'd consider it a big deal if you gave me your guilt, your shame, your regrets to handle!*
(TALK ABOUT RUBBING IT IN!)
3.> Finally, in the second line
> tumhe.n Gam kii qasam, is dil kI vIrAnI mujhe de do (?)
==>The word here is -un- (as in *unko ye shikaayat hai ke ham kuchh nahiN kehtE*)
tum apanaa ranj-o-gham, apanI pareshaanI mujhe de do
tumhe.n un kI qasam, is dil kI vIrAnI mujhe de do
*tumheN apanay gHamoN aur pareshaniyoN kee qasam hai, mujhE apanay dil kee veeranee
mE shaamil kar lo!*
guri
(It's interesting how a song with some -less than clear- enunciations of a few words
combined with -old monophonic- recording can generate such immense confusion... a great
tribute to the poet!)
U.V. Ravindra
In article <4sopg3$c...@lex.zippo.com>
ADhar...@WorldBank.Org (Ashok) writes:
=> > lEtA, na agar dil tumhEN dEtA, koi dam chAIn
=> > kartA, jo na martA, koi din aah-o-fuGHaaN aur
=> >
=> >The use of 'koi dam', and 'koi din' should adequately clarify doubts
=> >as to the validity, useability and grammatical correctness of these
=> >phrases.
=> >
=> >
=> >Ravindra.
=>
=> You haven't answered the right question, Ravindra! There is no problem
=> with the phrase 'koi din' itself. The use of 'koi' as an adjective for
=> a thing or person is too frequent to raise questions of grammar. Nor do
=> I find it awkward. Some common examples from different lyricists:
=> koi saaGHar dil ko behlaataa nahiN
<deleted other examples>
=> In all these examples, note that the noun following 'koi' does not take
=> on any case inflection. The problem with the way we have interpreted the
=> Sahir line in 'tum apnaa ranj-o-Gam' is, I think the phrase 'koi din ke liye'
=> is ungrammatical. I think 'koi' should become 'kisi' once you have 'ke liye'
=> after 'din.' As I understand it, the usage is parallel to the following:
=>
=> ye dil na hotaa bechaara
=> but
=> is dil se teri yaad bhulaai nahi.n jaati.
=>
=> To say 'koi din ke liye' is equivalent to saying 'ye dil se teri yaad.'
=>
=> I don't think Sahir would take the route of violating grammar (that too, in
=> an uninteresting and inelegant way) to show his creativity! I have
=> a feeling we are not interpreting the line properly.
Sahir is not violating grammar! The word 'koi' can be used in place
of 'kisi' directly (though this usage is not allowed in *Hindi*,
which, being our primary language of communication, colours our
opinion of grammatically correct Urdu).
Consider the sh'er by Ghalib that I give above. Globally replacing
'koi' by 'kisi' in it [i.e., ESC-% koi kisi, if you are an emacs-lover
;-)] we get,
lEtA, na agar dil tumhEN dEtA, kisi dam chAIn
kartA, jo na martA, kisi din aah-o-fuGHaaN AUr
meaning
agar tumheN dil nahiN diya hota, to maiN kisi dam chain le paaya hota,
agar mar hi na gaya hota, to kisi din maiN ne aah-o-fuGHaaN bhi kiya hota.
Now, in *Urdu* (as opposed to Hindi), you can grammatically replace
'kisi' with 'koi' in the above sentence (though one *normally*
doesn't], and it would be correct usage.
=> I have two other problems with the lyrics of this song (for convenience, I
=> am reproducing the version in ISB below). First of these is a return to the
=> question raised by Neeraj Malhotra when she started this thread. In the line
=>
=> ba.DI ?? hai agar, usakI pashemaanI mujhe de do
=>
=> ISB says the word is 'inaayat' and the earlier consensus seemed to be that it
=> is 'khair'. I am not convinced. 'khair' would seem to fit in terms of meaning,
=> but I keep hearing something close to 'faiq'. I hope someone evaluates the
=> relative merit of these alternatives.
The word, is 'shai'. "If this is too big a problem for you to handle,
give that worry to me!" she says.
=> Finally, in the second line
=>
=> tumhe.n Gam kii qasam, is dil kI vIrAnI mujhe de do (?)
=>
=> I am not sure that it is 'tumhe Gam ki qasam'. Soory, I have no alternative
=> to offer! It does not sound right, and I feel Sahir would do something
=> better than that!
I haven't heard the song in a long time (and I do not have a recording
of it, unfortunately), so I can only conjecture here. It's either
a) tumheN apni qasam, OR
b) tumheN *un* ki qasam
I personally would prefer 'a', but there is no reason why Sahir
couldn't have used 'b'. Actually, since it is fairly impossible to
mispronounce 'apni' as anything close to '??? ki', I think it could be
'tumheN un ki qasam'. The meaning, of course, is quite clear in
either case.
On a slightly different but related note I request RMIM to excuse me
if I keep harping on these subtle differences between Urdu and Hindi,
but I do think they are important and necessary to note. Take, for
example, the English sentence "We have to love each other" (a pretty
convoluted statement to make, I agree, but true, nonetheless, ain't
it? ;-)). This statement would be translated, by a Hindi-based Urdu
speaker as
"hameiN ek doosre se muhabbat karni hai"
Also, the same person would yell grammatical sacrilege (and probably
even bloody murder) if I said that the following translation is
perfectly correct in Urdu:
"hameiN ek doosre se muhabbat karna hai"
"'muhabbat' is striling," he would say, "and therefore, 'karna hai' is
wrong. It should be karni hai." He would be wrong.
=> Ashok
=>
=> Here's the lyric contributed by Shashikant Joshi.
=>
=> tum apanaa ra.nj\-o\-Gam, apanI pareshaanI mujhe de do
=> tumhe.n un(?) kii qasam, is dil kI vIrAnI mujhe de do (?)
=>
=> ye maanaa mai.n kisii qaabil nahii.n huu.N in nigaaho.n me.n \- 2
=> buraa kyaa hai agar, ye dukh ye hairaanI mujhe de do
=> tum apanaa \threedots
=>
=> mai.n dekhuu.n to sahii, duniyaa tumhe.n kaise sataatI hai \- 2
=> koI din ke liye, apanI nigahabaanI mujhe de do
=> tum apanaa \threedots
=>
=> vo dil jo maine maa.ngaa thaa magar gairo.n ne paayaa \- 2
=> ba.DI shai hai agar, usakI pashemaanI mujhe de do
=> tum apanaa \threedots
I have changed the lyric above.
Ravindra.
Ajay P Nerurkar
U.V. Ravindra (u...@vnet.ibm.com) wrote:
: "hameiN ek doosre se muhabbat karni hai"
: "hameiN ek doosre se muhabbat karna hai"
And then there is the "Saanjh Aur Savera" song that has the lines
yahi hai woh saanjh aur savera
jiske liye tarse hum SAARA jeevanbhar
Though injurious to my ears, I wouldn't bet on it being wrong.
Ajay
Pranav K. Tiwari
>
> Main dekhun to sahi duniyaa tumhen kaise sataati hai
> Koi din ke liye, apni nigebaani mujhe de do...
>
> eyesight.
No, not eyesight, nigebaani means vigilance, or watchmanship ..
>
> from "Rajnigandha phuul tumhaare...". Lovely song. I think Yogesh
> penned the lyrics for this song(or is it Sameer?).
>
Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeease! You can't have taken Sameer's name with any
seriousness ;-) ! Sameer can't come up with a gem like that. You are
right - this is by Yogesh.
cheers,
-p
Rizwan M. Syed
In <4sopg3$c...@lex.zippo.com> ADhar...@WorldBank.Org (Ashok) writes:
>vo dil jo maine maa.ngaa thaa magar gairo.n ne paayaa \- 2
>ba.DI inaayat hai agar, usakI pashemaanI mujhe de do
>tum apanaa \threedots
Man, this thing seems to kick ass. I'm gonna try to get a hold of
this thing. Could someone tell me who sings it and which, if any,
movie it is from? Anyway, it seems like the second line would
probably be:
Ba.rhi inaayat ho agar uski pashemaani mujhe de do
'ho' instead of 'hai'. :)
Rizwan
Udit Batra
subr...@cs.umn.edu (Satish Subramanian) wrote:
>--snip---
>
> The interpretation that you want can be found (not exactly the same
> meaning but somewhat similar) in the Mukesh's solo 'ram kare aisa ho
> jaaye' from "Milan" (LP). The first stanza starts with:
>
> "guzar jaaye, chhubte teri, dukh bhari ratiyaan
>
>
I think the line above is "guzar jaaye, sukh se teri, dukh bhari..."
---------
> The lyrics are by Anand Bakshi. I think, this stanza is not found in
> most of the available recordings. The two well-known stanzas of this
> song are "sapna chala, aaya koi, chori chori" and "main hi nahi, tu hi
> nahi, saara jamaana".
>
Absolutely wonderful rendition by Mukesh. Vol 9, song 1 of "anmol rattan"
Check out the rest of that cassette.... I was hooked to it towards the
end of my Ph.D. singing
"Bill kare aisa ho jaaye, uski razamandi mujhe mil jaaye;
woh maane, main bhaag jaaoon.." hooooh!
The contents of this message express only the sender's opinion.
This message does not necessarily reflect the policy or views of
my employer, Merck & Co., Inc. All responsibility for the statements
made in this Usenet posting resides solely and completely with the
sender.
Udit Batra
hgu...@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Himanshu Gupta) wrote:
>
> Terii aankhoN se saaraa sansaar meiN dekhuNgi
> nainaa su.ndar sapano.n ke jharokhe ban jaauu.ngii
>
> from "jhil mil sitaaron ka aaNgan hoga" [Jeevan Mrityu, Rafi-Lata, LP,
> Anand Bakshi]. Nice dream. I liked the picturization too. But once
> again (as in "Ram kare..."), though the song's mukhDaa potrays a
> wonderful feeling/wish, overall the lyrics are disappointing.
>
> --Himanshu
--------
I agree the lyrics of "Ram Kare..." tend to be disappointing. Picturization
aah!!
"Tum Apno Ranjho Gham..." is picturised beautifully. Only half the
face of this woman (actress?) singing the song is lighted. The rest
is in a shadow... perhaps related to the "nighebaani" part of the
song?
You ought to see the video if you already haven't.
Pintu Diwana aka ShashiKant Joshi
Sorry for not being able to follow these 'subtlety'-discussions more
closely.
The above line has a grammatical error for sure!!! And that is called
redundancy! jeevan-bhar already says 'For the whole life". So, the
'saaraa' is unnecessary. This in Sanskrit would be called
'punarukti-dosh'.
-- Pintu Diwana
PS: Hi UVR, Ashok, Ajay and all others. Damn! I try so much to find
more time for RMIM, but ... that is life. Abhay??