ilayaraja's KAMAGINI in hindi
shr...@imap1.asu.edu
Ravi Krishna (r_kr...@hotmail.com) wrote:
: Now comes the music. WOW . Just out of the world. Right from the first
I have heard the songs of "Kamagni".Typical Illayaraja tune which dosen't suit
the North Indian taste at all.Sincerely.
Rahman scores and did score over Illayaraja over this since he has/had
that typical all-India acceptable music, to me it is universally acceptable.
ie.even his music for the Tamil flicks have a typical universal(all Indian)
appeal about it and is not inspired by any region's type of music like
Illayaraja's which u can easily identify as typical Tamil film music.
Though, i accept that Rahman has been on a decline after "Rangeela"
or "May Madham" to be more exact,i liked only his music in "Indian"
after that and that too partly.
Shridhar.
< was a die-hard Rahamn fan but am not sure whether i can continue to be >
newsreader
Ilayaraaja's music comes under the class called new age music or fusion
music which is universally reknown and is different and creative. Rahman's
music is purely Western and most of the tunes are copied from pop songs
from the West and do not think there is anything creative or that is
anything new that can appreciated. Any Music director breaks the current
trend only by composing different music and that is what has Ilayaraaja has
done in the Hindi music world. I do not see why people should stick to the
same style of the music always!
shr...@imap1.asu.edu wrote in article <5nqsmp$c...@news.asu.edu>...
> Rahman scores and did score over Illayaraja over this since he has/had
> that typical all-India acceptable music, to me it is universally
acceptable.
...<stuff deleted..>
>
shr...@imap1.asu.edu
newsreader (pran...@hotmail.com) wrote:
: Ilayaraaja's music comes under the class called new age music or fusion
: >
Boy, how manyIllayaraja albums have u heard??
U say that Rahaman copies from the pop songs of the West.
Tell me one song of his in which he has directly lifted
a tune.
U say that Illayaraja's music is fusion and Rahman's Western;
i guess u know what "Fusion Music" means.Have u heard the songs
from Duet(Tamil) or Karuthamma(Tamil again)??Go and hear them
and then u will know what i am trying to convey to u.
Shridhar.
< If u don't know, Rahman was in Illayaraja's orchestra
till he became Pro >
shr...@imap1.asu.edu
Ravi Krishna (r_kr...@hotmail.com) wrote:
: Oh yeah , great north indian taste of late 80s when they would happily
: lap up all the trash of Laxmi-Pyare,RDB,Bappi Lahiri in that period. No wonder
: Ilayaraja flopped in Hindi.
Big musical hits of the late 80s in Hindi:
1. QSQT Music:Anand Millind
2. Maine Pyar Kiya Music:Ram Laxman
3. Tezaab Music:LP
4. Chandni Music:Shiv Hari
5. Mr.India
This is just to name a few.I don't think Kamagni's music was better
than these in any way.
Moreover,i mentioned clearly that the music didn't suit N.Indian
taste of music, not that it was bad.BTW, I think that Illayaraja's
tunes still don't have a all-Indian appeal about them.
The closest that can come to this is "AgniNakshatram".
: >Though, i accept that Rahman has been on a decline after "Rangeela"
: >or "May Madham" to be more exact,i liked only his music in "Indian"
: >after that and that too partly.
: >< was a die-hard Rahamn fan but am not sure whether i can continue to be >
: Holy cow , is is Shridhar writing so sensibly ( just kidding , no flames )
: -- Ravi Krishna
Abbe Ravi Krishna, I never see you objectively accepting your
favourite's weak points be it Illayaraja or SMG, then how can
u be justified in writing the last line??
Shridhar.
Narayanan Ammanur
shr...@imap1.asu.edu wrote:
: Ravi Krishna (r_kr...@hotmail.com) wrote:
: : Now comes the music. WOW . Just out of the world. Right from the first
: I have heard the songs of "Kamagni".Typical Illayaraja tune which dosen't suit
: the North Indian taste at all.Sincerely.
: Rahman scores and did score over Illayaraja over this since he has/had
: that typical all-India acceptable music, to me it is universally acceptable.
: ie.even his music for the Tamil flicks have a typical universal(all Indian)
: appeal about it and is not inspired by any region's type of music like
: Illayaraja's which u can easily identify as typical Tamil film music.
A song like "Dil se Dile Mil gaya" or Koyal si theri bholi etc were
nothing but copies of IRAJA's music. They did pretty well in fact better
than what the original did in South Indian movies.
It is hard to agree that IRaja's music was suitable only of Tam/Telugu
movies.
--
Standard Disclaimers Hold
shr...@imap1.asu.edu
Ravi Krishna (r_kr...@hotmail.com) wrote:
: In article <5o2ql9$pg...@hpcc883.corp.hp.com>,
: amn@PROBLEM_WITH_INEWS_GATEWAY_FILE says...
: >A song like "Dil se Dile Mil gaya" or Koyal si theri bholi etc were
: >nothing but copies of IRAJA's music. They did pretty well in fact better
: >than what the original did in South Indian movies.
: >It is hard to agree that IRaja's music was suitable only of Tam/Telugu
: >movies.
: >
Anand-Millind don't copy tune to tune in a song.They may carry the
same tune for some part of the song but not total line-line.
BTW, i was talking about the tune which Illayaraja made solely for
Hindi and to be frank, it didn't suit the taste.It sounded like some
Tamilian singing in Hindi.Same can also be said for many Rahman's songs
in Hindi but he compensates that through his instrumentals when he gets
an all-Indian tune out of them.
Bottomline, Rahman's tunes, though sounding Tamilian, have a better
all-Indian appeal about them than Illayaraja's.Rangeela had practically nil
Tamil music influence as compared to Kamagni.
An example is "karuthamma"(by Rahman) which had too much Tamil folksy music and failed
to do well up North.
: well said AMN. Iraja's songs were copied unabashedly in hindi movies by
: the copy cat Anand Milling. Songs of Agni Nakshatram were copied in Vansh.
Who is "Milling"????I heard a recent Tamil song where Illayaraja
has copied a hindi song(i forget the name).
Shridhar.
< Illayaraja has a trashy voice too; example the song he sang in "Kizhaku Vaasal" >
Anand Attavane
I agree with Ravikrishna, Rahman has a wider variation and universal
acceptance and has brought a new dimension to the indian movie music.
Iraja has a narrower selection and recently uses repetitive tunes too.
Narayanan Ammanur <amn@PROBLEM_WITH_INEWS_GATEWAY_FILE> wrote in article
<5o2ql9$pg...@hpcc883.corp.hp.com>...
Padmanabhan Ganesan
How many Ilaiyaraaja songs have you heard ?
How many non-filmy albums of Ilaiyaraja have you heard ?
ARRahman is OK but in about 4 years time he has run of stuff and he
plagiarises his own material. He steals pop music sources around the
world but manages to modify it slightly.
Ilaiyaraja is in his 20th year and listen to his songs in Raman
Abdullah, Siraichaalai (Kaala Paani), Avatharam, a new non-filmy album
India 24 Hours.
Ilaiyaraja's music is appreciated the world over, else he wouldn't be
composing a symphony for Royal Philharmonic Orchestra.
North Indian folks listen to Ilaiyaraaja's songs remixed by
Anand-Milind, Annu Malik and Co but they couln't appreciate the
original. ARRahman is a good remixer and since north indians listen to
junk like Bally Sagoo, Shweta Shetty, Baba Sehgal, Alisha Chinai they
listen to ARRahman too.
The contents of this message express only the sender's opinion.
This message does not necessarily reflect the policy or views of
my employer, Merck & Co., Inc. All responsibility for the statements
made in this Usenet posting resides solely and completely with the
sender.
Narayanan Ammanur
shr...@imap1.asu.edu wrote:
: BTW, i was talking about the tune which Illayaraja made solely for
: Hindi and to be frank, it didn't suit the taste.It sounded like some
: Tamilian singing in Hindi.Same can also be said for many Rahman's songs
: in Hindi but he compensates that through his instrumentals when he gets
: an all-Indian tune out of them.
What was that All Indian tune which Rahman had and which IRaja didn't.
To me it sounds like a loose statement.
: Bottomline, Rahman's tunes, though sounding Tamilian, have a better
: all-Indian appeal about them than Illayaraja's.Rangeela had practically nil
: Tamil music influence as compared to Kamagni.
Rangeela had a song in Panthuvarali Ragam, I don't remember the words of the
song though. I don't think that song had any north influence. There
was another one in Ragam Piloo. That had lot of North influence. To say
nil influence is not acceptable. I am reminded of that song
"Mere Aangane me" of Lavaris while I talk about Piloo. Once Pt. Ravi Shankar
played that on VividhBharathi in a shastriya sangeet programme (the
programme which takes place at 7:30 AM, does anyone remember the name of the
prog).
: An example is "karuthamma"(by Rahman) which had too much Tamil folksy music and failed
: to do well up North.
Karuthamma was not a big commercial hit even in South. It received
awards though. Movie like Indra did better.
: : well said AMN. Iraja's songs were copied unabashedly in hindi movies by
: : the copy cat Anand Milling. Songs of Agni Nakshatram were copied in Vansh.
: Who is "Milling"????I heard a recent Tamil song where Illayaraja
: has copied a hindi song(i forget the name).
What about the song "Bholi Bhali Ladki" ? Copied from Vidhya Sagar.
Songs copied by Tam MDs in general
don't do well. Remember the song "Love you Raja", a tune which was popular in
mid 70s. Whereas a song like "Akian Mila kabhi" which got copied into
tam didn't do well. If you are talking about IRaja copying, well I can
only recall two such cases. Listen to first two lines of the song
"Keladi Kanmani" of the film Puthu Puthu Arthangal resembling
"Sogaya Yeh Jahan"(only first two lines). Other than that I can think
of is in "How to name it" where the violinist plays pallvi of the song
Thulasi Dhala Mulache by Thyagaraja. Definitley IR did not
suffer from a epidemic of copying which likes of Anu Malik etc had.
And to say recent Tam song by Iraja copied from Hindi, well well, it's
nothing more than a joke. Isn't it sometime since Iraja retired.
: < Illayaraja has a trashy voice too; example the song he sang in "Kizhaku Vaasal" >
As though Rahman has great voice. I am not a great fan of Iraja, Rahman or
for that matter any film MD. I have not followed filmy music with
much zeal. But it isn't right to attach blashphemy.
--
Standard Disclaimers Hold
shr...@imap1.asu.edu
Ravi Krishna (r_kr...@hotmail.com) wrote:
: In article <01bc7b47$b74b6f80$49c6...@nasarts.flash.net>, "Anand says...
: >
: >I agree with Ravikrishna, Rahman has a wider variation and universal
: >acceptance and has brought a new dimension to the indian movie music.
: >Iraja has a narrower selection and recently uses repetitive tunes too.
: I think you confused me with Shirry. I would have never said such a
: stupid statement.
Hey, now u too??? Abbe dakkan, pehle apna naam to kuch "chota sa"
pronounceable rak, uske bad, u can think of rewording all the garbage
you write in various groups.My statements are certainly much better than
your junk on Illayaraja and Sunil Gavaskar.
Shridhar.
Gawd bless the fanatics.
Padmanabhan Ganesan
My message was addressed to Anand Attavane. If you follow the thread, it
is pretty much clear.
newsreader
Ravi Krishna <r_kr...@hotmail.com> wrote in article
<5o6c6b$r...@drn.zippo.com>...
> In article <5o5b0b$7...@news.asu.edu>, shr...@imap1.asu.edu says...
>
> >< Illayaraja has a trashy voice too; example the song he sang in
"Kizhaku
> >Vaasal" >
>
> Yup. He sounds like a donkey.
>
I have been listening to the Maestro's music and his voice in particular,
for quite a no. of years. According to pundits,his voice may be shaky at a
high scale, but its his very voice that has attracted many fans like me. In
fact, there is not a day without his Geetanjali, a devotional rendition, in
my home. He weaves an artless, naive vocal abracadabra around you. He owes
that to the spirituality he has sustained in all these years. Definitely
his voice is unique.
Lets accept that now.
There are lot of classical vocalists who have voices which are rustic and
have gained fame. So, I think Ilayaraaja also belongs to that category. I
don't think many of North Indians would have listened to his non-filmy
albums and songs...
Bunty
Hi Ravi,
R_>Rahman
R_>also is very original though I feel he is very limited in talent.
How can you say that? To speak against his music is one thing, but to
say that he has limited talent is a completely bogus statement. To date
his short number of films have shown enough variety and difference that
I don't think there leaves a question about his talent. I can provide
you with many examples of how his knowledge of music and his talent. He
has done and succeded in pop, jazz, ragae, classical, traditional,
opera, and other niches of music. Rahman has knowledge of music, and
usually is not afraid to express that. He has used an amazing number
of instruments in many different ways. An outstanding example is the
tener sax and Duet. He has enough apperciation of music to not lift
someone's tune, and rather compose a new one. People in the Hindi film
music industry who copy basically have no idea what music is, or they
would have enough respect for it to not steal ideas and explore other
options and other new sounds. Through a lack of this, we hear the
boring junk. Anyway, I want to see your definition of "talent". To me
you seem to think of only Iraja and others are not even looked at.
R_>: for that matter any film MD. I have not followed filmy music with
R_>: much zeal. But it isn't right to attach blashphemy.
R_>
R_>Rahman has a wimpy voice.Sounds like a woman.
Sometimes the directors want him to sing becuase they think his voice
suits the characters on screen in the song situation. This was
the case in KD (Duniya Dilwalon Ki in Hindi). In this movie he wanted
top try out a fresh voice, but the director insisted ARR sing.
bunty
Ikram Ahmed Khan
Ravi Krishna wrote:
> Raja as far as origanilty goes is head and shoulder above all other
> hindi
> music directors of his generation and that includes R D Burman also.
Must be that it was when RDB came to visit him, that he contracted
the "copying disease" :) Among I.'s lifts, lemme remind you of another
one... Remember 'Apoorva Sahodargal' aka Appu Raja. The song with the
'bab-babb-baa, bab-babb-ba-re' chorus line... Well, it is "inspired"
{I stretched the meaning of that word, considerably :)} from a fairly
popular song - Barbara Ann.
> Rahman has a wimpy voice.Sounds like a woman.
I thought that he did a verry good job in Urvasii, Humma Humma (sings
the Tamil version of the song.. later this too was dubbed by RemoF),
Kadhal Desam's 'Hello Doctor' was also enjoyable. And he definitely
won imo over Apache's half of the Love Birds song. It is a totally
different matter that his diction (in Tamil too) leaves a lot to be
desired. :)
Later,
Ikram.
Ashok
In article <33AC272F...@raleigh.ibm.com>, iak...@raleigh.ibm.com says...
>
>> Rahman has a wimpy voice.Sounds like a woman.
>
>different matter that his diction (in Tamil too) leaves a lot to be
>desired. :)
>
>Later,
>Ikram.
Since you seem to be an authority on diction in Hindi and Tamil,
I'll take your word for it that Rahman's diction is terrible in
both. I have the same question now about Rahman that I believe
people used to have regarding Kamraj Nadar: Does he speak any
language that some other humans speak? :)
Ashok
Narayanan Ammanur
newsreader (pran...@hotmail.com) wrote:
: There are lot of classical vocalists who have voices which are rustic and
: have gained fame. So, I think Ilayaraaja also belongs to that category. I
: don't think many of North Indians would have listened to his non-filmy
: albums and songs...
Ur point on some classical musicians is true. They don't have good voice.
But good voice is not classical music is all about. Tell me why KJY
is not considered great in classical circles despite lot of crowd(largely
due to KJY being a playback singer in Movies). It is because he doesn't
sing many difficult pieces. More than the voice it is the voice culture
that really matters for classical music. As far as Iraja goes,
he tried performing a classical concert which was a total flop.
He even composed some songs in carnatic which U Srinivas played.
Lesser said the better about that. That too was a poor quality work.
But in filmy music he was one of the top during his times.
Narayanan
--
Standard Disclaimers Hold
Ikram Ahmed Khan
Ashok wrote:
> I have the same question now about Rahman that I believe
> people used to have regarding Kamraj Nadar: Does he speak any
> language that some other humans speak? :)
Music.
:)
Later,
Ikram.
Bunty
Hi Ravi,
R_>How can I say that. Well I have listened to Iraja at his best from 1975 to
R_>1988-89 and also the best of Rahman from 1992 to another couple of years.
R_>I can say with utmost confidence that Rahman is no way near Iraja in terms
R_>of talent, heck he is not even close to RDBurman. How much of Iraja have you
R_>listened.
I understand what you are saying, and I am not arguing with you.
But, mabye you misunderstood my post. I originally wrote to speak out against
the fact that you mentioned about the (lack) of talent of AR Rahman. There
was no were in my writing were I compared Iraja to ARR on the basis on talent.
I am not afraid to admit that I have not listened to many of Iraja's music;
and the ones that I have listened too are not that great. But it is
elementary for me to even compare the two MD's, and I did not...I simpily do
not have the info on what Iraja has done. I would say the same for RDB,
even though I have heard alot more of his music. Anyway, I think I should have
elebroated on this fact, but I mentioned that you "don't look at anyone else
besides Iraja", because all I have ever read in your posts about music
directors (currently) is Iraja, and I felt that you are using him as a
indicator of talent of other MD's. I think that is unfair because you
get that kind of respect through time and of course good music. Some
people might never get even close to that but they might have made some
very good music, and is it fair to say they have little talent becuase
they are not upto Iraja's level. Honestly, my comment and Iraja was not
ment as a negative statement towards you but it did sound like because what
I wanted to say, I didn't.
Basically I wanted you to provide me with your statement(s), comments, or
proof saying from your point of view and why (with what he has done in the
past 5 years) ARR has little or no talent. That is my only conflict with
your original post.
bunty
Kalyan
In article <33AECB04...@raleigh.ibm.com>, Ikram says...
Isn't that also true of Cacaphonix (from Asterix comics)? :)
Kalyan
>
>:)
>
>
>Later,
>Ikram.
Dev Mannemela
In article <01bc7ced$6380a580$1b18ced0@chandra>,
newsreader <pran...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Ravi Krishna <r_kr...@hotmail.com> wrote in article
><5o6c6b$r...@drn.zippo.com>...
>> In article <5o5b0b$7...@news.asu.edu>, shr...@imap1.asu.edu says...
>>
>> >< Illayaraja has a trashy voice too; example the song he sang in
>"Kizhaku
>> >Vaasal" >
>>
>> Yup. He sounds like a donkey.
>>
>
>I have been listening to the Maestro's music and his voice in particular,
>for quite a no. of years. According to pundits,his voice may be shaky at a
>high scale, but its his very voice that has attracted many fans like me. In
>fact, there is not a day without his Geetanjali, a devotional rendition, in
>my home. He weaves an artless, naive vocal abracadabra around you. He owes
>that to the spirituality he has sustained in all these years. Definitely
>his voice is unique.
>Lets accept that now.
IR's voice is unique, no doubt about that.
But he spoiled many a song, by insisting on singing them himself.
Listen to "Avatharam" sndtrk, for example.
Some of the songs he has sung managed to become big hits, inspite
of his voice, because of the tunes..["Naan Thedum" etc..]
--
Dev Mannemela de...@spimageworks.com
Sony Pictures Imageworks 310.840.8143 (O)
venkat pedibhotla
Dev Mannemela (de...@netcom.com) wrote:
: In article <01bc7ced$6380a580$1b18ced0@chandra>,
Incidentally, Rahman has a bit of this problem too (although I am not
writing about his voice). But he uses some Tamil Singers (who may be
excellent for Tamil songs), however, the same guys he uses for Telugu
songs. On the contrary IRaja wasn't courageous enough to venture into
Telugu with his voice. 90% of the time he used the Super SPB and 10%
Yesudas. As far as I know only 2 songs were sung by Iraja in Telugu
(they weren't well rec'd by the audience. Similarlly, with Rahman's
coteire of singers there are many songs....one for ex, Hamma hamma was
sung well by Remo in Hindi. He used Remo in Telugu also....and nobody
can understand a single word. It went thru OK b'coz of the beats and
music.
Venkat
Bunty
VK>coteire of singers there are many songs....one for ex, Hamma hamma was
VK>sung well by Remo in Hindi. He used Remo in Telugu also....and nobody
VK>can understand a single word. It went thru OK b'coz of the beats and
You could not understand what the devil he was saying in Hindi either!!:)
Except the words, "humma humma".
bunty
Dev Mannemela
In article <5otsjv$7...@crcnis3.unl.edu>,
venkat pedibhotla <v...@unlinfo.unl.edu> wrote:
>Dev Mannemela (de...@netcom.com) wrote:
>....
>Incidentally, Rahman has a bit of this problem too (although I am not
>writing about his voice). But he uses some Tamil Singers (who may be
>excellent for Tamil songs), however, the same guys he uses for Telugu
>songs. On the contrary IRaja wasn't courageous enough to venture into
>Telugu with his voice. 90% of the time he used the Super SPB and 10%
>Yesudas. As far as I know only 2 songs were sung by Iraja in Telugu
>(they weren't well rec'd by the audience.
I know of six songs of IR sung in telugu:
1) "Sandamama gandham" in "Merupu Dadi"(with S.Janaki)
2) "Alalu Kalalu" in "Seethakoka Chiluka" (with Vani Jayaram)
3) "Kalushitam Kalushitam" in "Keechurallu"
4) "Kala yaa Nijama" in "Coolie No.1" (with P.Susheela)
5) another song in "Coolie No.1" with SPB
6) a song in Alapana with S.Janaki and SPB
There might be a few more..
/dev
Santosh Kulkarni
he has not sung a hindi song of more than four words(
this was before humma humma)
The one with four words was off course jalavaa.
'deko', 'ye', 'hai' 'jalavaa'.
Santosh