Queries on: Nain la.D ja ii hai.....Ganga Jamna (ISB # 2174)
Pradip Shah
I have couple of questions on this "naughty" Rafi number from Ganga
Jamna. I believe the lyrics are in Bhojpuri ?? I am pasting few
lines here:
ho_ii gavaa man maa more tichh.rii najar kaa hallaa
gorii ko dekhe binaa ni.ndiyaa na aavai hamakaa
phaa.Ns lagii hai to karejavaa ma khaTak hoibe karii
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I am not 100% sure about the meaning of the above.
nain la.D jai.nhe \threedots
thaik thaik thai thai, thai
[dhaak dhinak dhin, taak tinak tin
dhaak dhinak dhin, dhaak dhinak dhin, dhaa!]
Regarding the taal under the square bracket above: Is it some
'kaayadaa' or a variation of a well known taals like Dadra, Keharba
etc. ? I have an elementray knowledge of taals. The tabla expert
probably can answer this one.
Thank you.
Rgds,
Pradip
UVR
> Hello,
>
> I have couple of questions on this "naughty" Rafi number from Ganga
> Jamna. I believe the lyrics are in Bhojpuri ?? I am pasting few
> lines here:
>
> ho_ii gavaa man maa more tichh.rii najar kaa hallaa
> gorii ko dekhe binaa ni.ndiyaa na aavai hamakaa
> phaa.Ns lagii hai to karejavaa ma khaTak hoibe karii
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> I am not 100% sure about the meaning of the above.
AFAIK, this is the same as saying in Hindi:
phaa.Ns lag jaae, to kaleje me.n khaTak huaa karatii hai
phaa.Ns laganaa = pha.Ns jaanaa = to be 'lassoed'/captured
karajavaa = kalejaa = dil = heart
(dil me.n) khaTak honaa = (dil) dhak-dhak karanaa
The meaning is now clear. Or is it? :)
> nain la.D jai.nhe \threedots
I'm pretty sure this should be "la.D ja_ii hai.n"
-UVR
Devendra Sharma
> Pradip Shah wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I have couple of questions on this "naughty" Rafi number from Ganga
> > Jamna. I believe the lyrics are in Bhojpuri ?? I am pasting few
> > lines here:
> >
> > ho_ii gavaa man maa more tichh.rii najar kaa hallaa
halla=hamala (attack)
> > gorii ko dekhe binaa ni.ndiyaa na aavai hamakaa
> > phaa.Ns lagii hai to karejavaa ma khaTak hoibe karii
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > I am not 100% sure about the meaning of the above.
>
> AFAIK, this is the same as saying in Hindi:
> phaa.Ns lag jaae, to kaleje me.n khaTak huaa karatii hai
>
a little transliteration correction may be required here,
following the dialect the line should be written as
phaa.Ns lagihe.n to karejavaa maa.n khaTak huibe karii
"lagihe.n" is a single word, and "huibe kari" means something
like "it is certain to happen" (or bound to happen), so
the correct hindi equivalent of the line IMO would be
"phaa.Ns lagegi to kaleje men khaTak hogi hi hogi" (future tens)
> phaa.Ns laganaa = pha.Ns jaanaa = to be 'lassoed'/captured
> karajavaa = kalejaa = dil = heart
> (dil me.n) khaTak honaa = (dil) dhak-dhak karanaa
>
I guess phaa.Ns here is not related with capture, phaa.Ns
commonly is a very tiny and stiff piece of wood/bamboo skin
which generally pierces and enters into the skin if rubbed
against a rough wood/bamboo, though smaller than a millimeter
it causes enormous pain, takes a big of effort to remove it,
quite common while woring in the fields/countryside.
> The meaning is now clear. Or is it? :)
>
> > nain la.D jai.nhe \threedots
>
> I'm pretty sure this should be "la.D ja_ii hai.n"
>
"jaihe.n" is also a single word similar to "lagihe.n",
future tens of "jaanaa" and "lagana" respectively.
regards
devendra
Surma Bhopali
> Hello,
>
> I have couple of questions on this "naughty" Rafi number from Ganga
> Jamna. I believe the lyrics are in Bhojpuri ?? I am pasting few
> lines here:
>
> ho_ii gavaa man maa more tichh.rii najar kaa hallaa
I am pretty sure this should be "tirchhii nazar". CISB seems to have
got it wrong too.
[snipped]
Pradip Shah
>
> I guess phaa.Ns here is not related with capture, phaa.Ns
> commonly is a very tiny and stiff piece of wood/bamboo skin
> which generally pierces and enters into the skin if rubbed
> against a rough wood/bamboo, though smaller than a millimeter
> it causes enormous pain, takes a big of effort to remove it,
> quite common while woring in the fields/countryside.
>
Gujarati which has the same meaning you have described above.
Rgds,
Pradip
UVR
>
> a little transliteration correction may be required here,
> following the dialect the line should be written as
>
> phaa.Ns lagihe.n to karejavaa maa.n khaTak huibe karii
Are you sure about "lagihe.n" (nasalized)? Isn't that the
plural version? I am pretty sure it's a singular 'phaa.Ns'
that is being talked about in the song.
> "lagihe.n" is a single word, and "huibe kari" means something
I am not sure about "huibe". Not only does Rafi clearly sing
"hoibe" (admittedly with a short "o" sound, but definitely with
'o' instead of 'u'), but I was also told by a UPite friend of
mine many years ago that "hoibe" is the correct word.
> like "it is certain to happen" (or bound to happen), so
> the correct hindi equivalent of the line IMO would be
>
> "phaa.Ns lagegi to kaleje men khaTak hogi hi hogi" (future tens)
>
> > phaa.Ns laganaa = pha.Ns jaanaa = to be 'lassoed'/captured
> > karajavaa = kalejaa = dil = heart
> > (dil me.n) khaTak honaa = (dil) dhak-dhak karanaa
>
> I guess phaa.Ns here is not related with capture, phaa.Ns
> commonly is a very tiny and stiff piece of wood/bamboo skin
> which generally pierces and enters into the skin if rubbed
> against a rough wood/bamboo, though smaller than a millimeter
> it causes enormous pain, takes a big of effort to remove it,
> quite common while woring in the fields/countryside.
I see. Thanks for the clarification about "phaa.Ns". Is it
your statement that 'phaa.Ns = lasso' does not exist in this
dialect of Hindi? I ask because I am unable to see the rela-
tionship between this 'baa.Ns-waalaa phaa.Ns' and 'karajavaa
maa.N khaTak'. I still think it makes more sense to say that:
the heart goes pit-a-pat when captured by 'oblique glances'
> > The meaning is now clear. Or is it? :)
> >
> > > nain la.D jai.nhe \threedots
> >
> > I'm pretty sure this should be "la.D ja_ii hai.n"
>
> "jaihe.n" is also a single word similar to "lagihe.n",
> future tens of "jaanaa" and "lagana" respectively.
> regards
>
> devendra
-UVR.
Surma Bhopali
[snip]
> > AFAIK, this is the same as saying in Hindi:
> > phaa.Ns lag jaae, to kaleje me.n khaTak huaa karatii hai
> >
>
> a little transliteration correction may be required here,
> following the dialect the line should be written as
>
> phaa.Ns lagihe.n to karejavaa maa.n khaTak huibe karii
>
> "lagihe.n" is a single word, and "huibe kari" means something
> like "it is certain to happen" (or bound to happen), so
> the correct hindi equivalent of the line IMO would be
>
> "phaa.Ns lagegi to kaleje men khaTak hogi hi hogi" (future tens)
>
I tend to agree with UVR here. "huibe/hoibe kari" means "hotii hai" or
"huaa kartii hai". I don't think it has the connotation of "bound to"
or "certain to". Also the future is not tense here, rather the present
is perfect.:) The future tense form would be "khaTak hoibe karegii".
I remember my Bihari friends saying "dekhbe karenge" meaning simply
"dekhenge" and not "dekhenge hii dekhenge"(jaruur dekhenge). They
don't seem to have any other way to say just "dekhenge".
Bihari Hindi has some strange ways of saying simple things. If I ask
"kyaa ye kariimnagar hai?", the reply will be - "ii kariim_ii_nagar
hai" rather than "ye kariimnagar hii hai". In Maharashtrian Hindi it
will be "ye kariimnagarich hai" :)
[snip]
Devendra Sharma
> Are you sure about "lagihe.n" (nasalized)? Isn't that the
> plural version? I am pretty sure it's a singular 'phaa.Ns'
> that is being talked about in the song.
>
you gave but it is certainly not "lagii hai". I agree that in
hindi "hai" is singular and "hai.n" (nasal) is plural
(same rule applies to all other verbs) but not sure
if one can generalize this rule for other dialects
since I do find the nasal being used with singular in
other UP dialects, for example in Brij Bhasha:
"maiyaa mai.n to chandra khilaunaa laiho.n" (Surdas)
(maiya main to chandra khilona luungaa or "mother, I
would take moon as my toy" similar verb forms would be,
jaiho.n, aiho.n, khaiho.n, etc. all nasal but for
singular use)
>
> I am not sure about "huibe". Not only does Rafi clearly sing
> "hoibe" (admittedly with a short "o" sound, but definitely with
> 'o' instead of 'u'), but I was also told by a UPite friend of
> mine many years ago that "hoibe" is the correct word.
>
I think both "hoibe" and "huibe" are valid, I've heard
huibe often but hoibe as well, the local pronunciation may be
somewhere between "o" and "u", it becomes stronger as you
move down, the way "hoibe" is pronounced in Maithili or
Bangla is neither "o" nor "u" but an entirely different wovel.
> I see. Thanks for the clarification about "phaa.Ns". Is it
> your statement that 'phaa.Ns = lasso' does not exist in this
> dialect of Hindi?
no, it is not my statement,the words "phaa.Nsnaa"
and "pa.Nsaanaa" do exist in hindi, but AFAIK in the form of
verb and not as noun. The noun "phaa.Ns" which I know of
doesn't seem to be directly related to capture and "pha.Nsanaa" or
"pha.Nsaanaa" which are all verbs and require other kinds of
nouns for usage.
> I ask because I am unable to see the rela-
> tionship between this 'baa.Ns-waalaa phaa.Ns' and 'karajavaa
> maa.N khaTak'. I still think it makes more sense to say that:
> the heart goes pit-a-pat when captured by 'oblique glances'
>
phaa.Ns (noun) that i talked about is commonly used metaphorically
for something which is painful and hard to get rid of, like saying
"uski baat mere dil me.n phaa.Ns ki tarah chubhatii rahi"
this usage is somewhat similar to "koyaliya mat tar pukaar
karejvaa laage kaTaar" where no kaTaar is literally wounding
the heart but it is a metaphor for something which hurts.
In "nain la.D" the noun "phaa.Ns" is used before the verb "laganaa",
if it has to imply "pha.Ns jaanaa" than some word like
"pha.ndaa" should be used before the verb "lagana".
as you said,
> phaa.Ns laganaa = pha.Ns jaanaa = to be 'lassoed'/captured
i.e., "phaa.Ns laganaa" implies "pha.Ns jaana", then is it
that this "phaa.Ns" is another object like "pha.Nda" (capable
of capturing something) and something very different from
the one which I described?
regards
devendra
Devendra Sharma
> dev...@yahoo.com (Devendra Sharma) wrote in message news:<4b076aa6.03012...@posting.google.com>...
>
> "huaa kartii hai". I don't think it has the connotation of "bound to"
> or "certain to". Also the future is not tense here, rather the present
> is perfect.:) The future tense form would be "khaTak hoibe karegii".
>
agree, "huibe karii" may not exactly mean
"certain to happen" but it is certainly more assertive
than "hua karti hai", more like "aisa hoga to vaisa hoga
hi sahi (you must not object to it, period)"
so the first line would mean like
"nain la.D jayenge to man men kasak to hogi hi sahi".
I remember "dilip kumar" has a "laaThii" in his hand,
he comes forward, firmly places his laaThii on the ground
while other hand on his waist and asserts-
"prem ki nagarii maa.n kuchh hamaraa bhi hak huibe karii"
If you say it is present perfact I would translate this
line as "prem ki nagarii men hamaara bhi kuchh haq rah
chuka hai" :-)
There is another Bhojpuri song which says
"ham na jaibe sasur ghar me.N baba"
meaning "I will not go to my sasuraal" (future tens)
I would find it little unusual if she is singing
"I have not gone to my sasural" (if present is perfact:))
devendra
Surma Bhopali
>
> agree, "huibe karii" may not exactly mean
> "certain to happen" but it is certainly more assertive
> than "hua karti hai", more like "aisa hoga to vaisa hoga
> hi sahi (you must not object to it, period)"
> so the first line would mean like
> "nain la.D jayenge to man men kasak to hogi hi sahi".
> I remember "dilip kumar" has a "laaThii" in his hand,
> he comes forward, firmly places his laaThii on the ground
> while other hand on his waist and asserts-
>
> "prem ki nagarii maa.n kuchh hamaraa bhi hak huibe karii"
>
> If you say it is present perfact I would translate this
> line as "prem ki nagarii men hamaara bhi kuchh haq rah
> chuka hai" :-)
>
Nope. In present perfect it would translate to:
"prem ki nagarii men hamaara bhi kuchh haq hotaa hai"
which is okay.
> There is another Bhojpuri song which says
>
> "ham na jaibe sasur ghar me.N baba"
>
> meaning "I will not go to my sasuraal" (future tens)
> I would find it little unusual if she is singing
> "I have not gone to my sasural" (if present is perfact:))
>
This one is different from the previous one. You are right this means
"I will not go to my sasuraal" (future tense). However when "kari" is
used as a *sahaayak kriyaa* after another verb, it implies present
tense. Thus, while "ham sasur ghar naa ja_ibe" means "mai.n sasuraal
nahi.n jaauu.Ngii", "ham sasur ghar ja_ibe kari" would mean "mai.n
sasuraal jaatii huu.n". To make this future tense, one will say "ham
sasur ghar ja_ibe karenge".
The use of "ja_ibe" in "ham na ja_ibe.." is the same as the Bengali
"jaabo" meaning future tense. The song "nain la.D ja_ii hai" uses the
*sahaayak kriyaa* "kari" which is present perfect in this form.
> devendra
Devendra Sharma
of the things.
> > If you say it is present perfact I would translate this
> > line as "prem ki nagarii men hamaara bhi kuchh haq rah
> > chuka hai" :-)
> >
> Nope. In present perfect it would translate to:
> "prem ki nagarii men hamaara bhi kuchh haq hotaa hai"
> which is okay.
>
yes, if this is the present perfact then it is okey,
I for my life kept thinking that something that ends with
"ho chuka/chuki hai" is present perfact (poonrN vartmaan)
and "hota/hoti hai" is present indefinit (samanya vartamaan kaal),
thanks for nice explaination.
devendra
ps: an intyeresting info related to Bhojpuri,
google search has a bhojpuri version!
it writes, web=Makadjaal, search=khoj, group=Samooh,
Image=Chhaaya, Guid=Nirdeshika, etc., interesting.
(may be it's know to most, it was quite new for me)
check it out at,
http://www.google.com/intl/bh/
UVR
> good explaination, you are really *surma* :-), I seem to agree with most
> of the things.
Yup, he is "surmaa" alright!
> > > If you say it is present perfact I would translate this
> > > line as "prem ki nagarii men hamaara bhi kuchh haq rah
> > > chuka hai" :-)
> >
> > Nope. In present perfect it would translate to:
> > "prem ki nagarii men hamaara bhi kuchh haq hotaa hai"
> > which is okay.
> >
> yes, if this is the present perfact then it is okey,
> I for my life kept thinking that something that ends with
> "ho chuka/chuki hai" is present perfact (poonrN vartmaan)
> and "hota/hoti hai" is present indefinit (samanya vartamaan kaal),
> thanks for nice explaination.
Not so fast! Inasmuch as present perfect tense goes, Devendra,
you are (or used to be :D) absolutely right -- 'hamaaraa haq
hotaa hai' is NOT present perfect tense. "ho chukaa hai" is.
A lot of people get confused and ask "When 'ho chukaa hai' is,
obviously, describing an action that 'has happened' in the past,
how can it be *present* perfect, or *present* anything?"
The trick is to realize that "ho chukaa hai" is NOT describing
any past event. It is actually talking about the 'current state
of affairs': at the *present* moment in time we are at a state
where X has already happened. That's why this is the *present*
perfect tense.
SCORE: Devendra - 1, Surma - 0
Having said that, however, I agree that "hoibe karii" does NOT
constitute the present perfect tense. The line from the song
simply means: prem kii nagarii me.n hamaaraa bhii kuchh haq
hotaa hai (i.e., haq banataa hai).
SCORE: Devendra - 1, Surma - 1
So, as I see it, the question is not whether he is "surmaa" or not.
The question is, is he "suurmaa" also? :D
-UVR.
dhurandhar baTaaTaa-vaDaa-[yum!]-kar :))
Malini
Both UVR and Devendra are correct in their interpretation to some
extent. The analogy given here is when the bait hooks (phaa.Ns
laganaa) onto the fish, it does cause lot of hurt. There are a few
other analogies given in the song :
prem kaa chhuTi hai paTaakhaa to dhamak hoibe karii
jhaa.Njh bajii hai to kamariyaa ma lachak hoibe karii
The implications here is that certain things happen, they have known
effects.
Hope this is helpful,
Malini
Surma Bhopali
>
> Not so fast! Inasmuch as present perfect tense goes, Devendra,
> you are (or used to be :D) absolutely right -- 'hamaaraa haq
> hotaa hai' is NOT present perfect tense. "ho chukaa hai" is.
>
> A lot of people get confused and ask "When 'ho chukaa hai' is,
> obviously, describing an action that 'has happened' in the past,
> how can it be *present* perfect, or *present* anything?"
Guruji, perhaps I was confused between present perfect and indefinite,
but "hoibe karii" is definitely not future which is what I was trying
to counter. Let me try and refresh my basics: "ho chukaa hai" is
present perfect, "hotaa hai" is indefinite and "(ye kyaa) ho rahaa
hai" is continuous. Am I right now or still missing something?
>
> The trick is to realize that "ho chukaa hai" is NOT describing
> any past event. It is actually talking about the 'current state
> of affairs': at the *present* moment in time we are at a state
> where X has already happened. That's why this is the *present*
> perfect tense.
>
> SCORE: Devendra - 1, Surma - 0
>
> Having said that, however, I agree that "hoibe karii" does NOT
> constitute the present perfect tense. The line from the song
> simply means: prem kii nagarii me.n hamaaraa bhii kuchh haq
> hotaa hai (i.e., haq banataa hai).
>
> SCORE: Devendra - 1, Surma - 1
Thanks for that, aakhir kuchh to milaa. Surma Bhopali ko muft me.n
bhai.ns karne kii aadat nahi.n hai. :)
>
> So, as I see it, the question is not whether he is "surmaa" or not.
> The question is, is he "suurmaa" also? :D
I guess a better question would be whether I am "suur maa" (bhojpuri)
:)
>
> -UVR.
> dhurandhar baTaaTaa-vaDaa-[yum!]-kar :))
That doesn't make UVR! How about Ustaad\-e\-VyaakaRaN?
Devendra Sharma
>
> Thanks for that, aakhir kuchh to milaa. Surma Bhopali ko muft me.n
> bhai.ns karne kii aadat nahi.n hai. :)
> >
That's highly becoming a "Proffesional Suurmaa" :-)
> > So, as I see it, the question is not whether he is "surmaa" or not.
> > The question is, is he "suurmaa" also? :D
No "itrans" in this field ({}) please, may lead to serious results :D
devendra
Pradeep Dubey
You guys are amazing ... Gulzar kyaa onion 'peel' kare.nge? aap logo.n
ne to hindi vyaakaraN ko itnaa 'peel' kiyaa hai, jitnaa swargiiya
piiloo modii ne raajniti nahi.n pailii hogii :-)
My 2 cents:
It is quite possible that in some hindi dialect, what Surma says is
correct, that is, "ham sasur ghar ja_ibe karii" would mean "mai.n
sasuraal jaatii huu.n". But all the dialects of UP and around, that I
am familiar with, "ham sasur ghar ja_ibe karii" does not change
'jaibe' to mean present tense. It means, as was said earlier, "I
certainly will go to ...", more assertive than, "ham sasur ghar
ja_ibe".
All these variants are still less assertive than latest hindi variant
of laaloo hindi, "ham sasur ghar jaao.ngii' :-)
Pradeep
Surjit Singh
Pradeep Dubey wrote:
> nanhaf...@yahoo.co.in (Surma Bhopali) wrote in message news:<622ae881.03012...@posting.google.com>...
<KILLED>
> All these variants are still less assertive than latest hindi variant
> of laaloo hindi, "ham sasur ghar jaao.ngii' :-)
Recently, I was watching a new (post-1960) movie hardly trying not to
sleep. But what woke me up was Amrish Puri saying something like "ham
jaa_uu.ngaa, ham karuu.ngaa". I forgot which one.
I cannot place that usage anywhere in INdia!
>
> Pradeep
>
>
>>The use of "ja_ibe" in "ham na ja_ibe.." is the same as the Bengali
>>"jaabo" meaning future tense. The song "nain la.D ja_ii hai" uses the
>>*sahaayak kriyaa* "kari" which is present perfect in this form.
>>
>>
>>>devendra
>>
--
Surjit Singh, a diehard movie fan(atic), period.
http://hindi-movies-songs.com/index.html
SKalra902
>Pradeep Dubey wrote:
>> nanhaf...@yahoo.co.in (Surma Bhopali) wrote in message
>news:<622ae881.03012...@posting.google.com>...
>
><KILLED>
>
>> All these variants are still less assertive than latest hindi variant
>> of laaloo hindi, "ham sasur ghar jaao.ngii' :-)
>
>Recently, I was watching a new (post-1960) movie hardly trying not to
>sleep. But what woke me up was Amrish Puri saying something like "ham
>jaa_uu.ngaa, ham karuu.ngaa". I forgot which one.
>
>I cannot place that usage anywhere in INdia!
>
That is what Pradeep Dubey was referring to as Laloo (Prasad Yadav) Hindi. :-)
It has been used in many a new film in the last five to ten years, including by
Paresh Rawal, Sadashiv Amrapurkar, Gulshan Grover...you get the picture.
I wish I could tell you the film's name, but like you, I save my brain cells
for other, more important, details of other items.
Happy listenings.
Satish Kalra
Devendra Sharma
> Recently, I was watching a new (post-1960) movie hardly trying not to
> sleep. But what woke me up was Amrish Puri saying something like "ham
> jaa_uu.ngaa, ham karuu.ngaa". I forgot which one.
>
the movie possiblly was "Koyla", with shahrukh khan and madhuri dxt.
devendra
vsr...@hclinfinet.com
>
> nanhaf...@yahoo.co.in (Surma Bhopali) wrote in message news:<622ae881.03012...@posting.google.com>...
> > dev...@yahoo.com (Devendra Sharma) wrote in message news:...
> > >
> > >
> > > "ham na jaibe sasur ghar me.N baba"
> > >
> > > meaning "I will not go to my sasuraal" (future tens)
> > > I would find it little unusual if she is singing
> > > "I have not gone to my sasural" (if present is perfact:))
> > >
> > This one is different from the previous one. You are right this means
> > "I will not go to my sasuraal" (future tense). However when "kari" is
> > used as a *sahaayak kriyaa* after another verb, it implies present
> > tense. Thus, while "ham sasur ghar naa ja_ibe" means "mai.n sasuraal
> > nahi.n jaauu.Ngii", "ham sasur ghar ja_ibe kari" would mean "mai.n
> > sasuraal jaatii huu.n". To make this future tense, one will say "ham
> > sasur ghar ja_ibe karenge".
>
> You guys are amazing ... Gulzar kyaa onion 'peel' kare.nge? aap logo.n
> ne to hindi vyaakaraN ko itnaa 'peel' kiyaa hai, jitnaa swargiiya
> piiloo modii ne raajniti nahi.n pailii hogii :-)
>
> My 2 cents:
> It is quite possible that in some hindi dialect, what Surma says is
> correct, that is, "ham sasur ghar ja_ibe karii" would mean "mai.n
> sasuraal jaatii huu.n". But all the dialects of UP and around, that I
> am familiar with, "ham sasur ghar ja_ibe karii" does not change
> 'jaibe' to mean present tense. It means, as was said earlier, "I
> certainly will go to ...", more assertive than, "ham sasur ghar
> ja_ibe".
>
Whereas the usage like "ham na jaibe sasur ghar me.N baba"
correctly mean "I will not go to my sasuraal" an was said by
Suuramaa,
In the forms like:
"ham sasur ghar naa ja_ibe" or
"ham sasur ghar ja_ibe karenge"
sasur is used like a swear-word or a takiyakalaam which does
not modifiy or add anything in the sentence. Drop this
takiyakalam words and the correct meaning of the line comes
out correctly.
"ham sasur ghar naa ja_ibe" = "ham ghar naa ja_ibe"
"ham sasur ghar ja_ibe karenge" = "ham ghar ja_ibe
karenge"
You might have heard a similar construction in Dilip Kumar's
"Saalaa mai.n to saaheb ban gayaa", where saalaa is used as
a takiyakalam to prefix "mai.n".
> All these variants are still less assertive than latest hindi variant
> of laaloo hindi, "ham sasur ghar jaao.ngii' :-)
he uses "ham jaao.ngaa" which is used in the Jamshedpur area
of Bihar, but I have never seen [ "masculine" + jaao.ngii ]
uses which are typical only of south-indian.
in the above attributed laluu statement also, "sasur" has
been used as a takiyakalaam.
-Rawat
Pradeep Dubey
> Pradeep Dubey wrote:
> > nanhaf...@yahoo.co.in (Surma Bhopali) wrote in message news:<622ae881.03012...@posting.google.com>...
>
> <KILLED>
>
> > All these variants are still less assertive than latest hindi variant
> > of laaloo hindi, "ham sasur ghar jaao.ngii' :-)
>
> Recently, I was watching a new (post-1960) movie hardly trying not to
> sleep. But what woke me up was Amrish Puri saying something like "ham
> jaa_uu.ngaa, ham karuu.ngaa". I forgot which one.
>
> I cannot place that usage anywhere in INdia!
>
Surjit:
Placing some of these geographically ...
"mai.n jaauu.Ngaa" of Rajasthan and western UP becomes "hum jaaye.nge"
as you move to Luckhnow and east. It then becomes "hum jaauu.Ngaa" in
laaloo land, and then becomes "hum jaayegaa" in Kolkata.
Pradeep
P.S. By the way, there is a great Pizza Hut ad running these days in
India, launching their 'stuffed crust' pizza, with a laaloo-like
character, saying something like ...
"suniye hum sab raaj jaanataa hoon ... iske krustwaa mei.n chhipaa hai
maaaaal ..." Pizza Hut ... palat merii jaan
Devendra Sharma
> You guys are amazing ... Gulzar kyaa onion 'peel' kare.nge? aap logo.n
> ne to hindi vyaakaraN ko itnaa 'peel' kiyaa hai, jitnaa swargiiya
> piiloo modii ne raajniti nahi.n pailii hogii :-)
>
Dubeyji, agar experts itnaa der se aihen to aisan arth kaa anarth to
huibe karii. :-)
devendra
Pradeep Dubey
> > All these variants are still less assertive than latest hindi variant
> > of laaloo hindi, "ham sasur ghar jaao.ngii' :-)
>
> he uses "ham jaao.ngaa" which is used in the Jamshedpur area
> of Bihar, but I have never seen [ "masculine" + jaao.ngii ]
> uses which are typical only of south-indian.
>
Rawat,
I don't understand the basis of your "ling shankaa" or gender
confusion in that statement above. 'Laaloo hindi' is also spoken by
Rabri.
Pradeep
P.S. "ham" is also used by females. Recall, JC in QSQT.
Surjit Singh
Pradeep Dubey wrote:
> vsr...@HCLInfinet.com wrote in message news:<3E3204FC...@HCLInfinet.com>...
>
>>>All these variants are still less assertive than latest hindi variant
>>>of laaloo hindi, "ham sasur ghar jaao.ngii' :-)
>>
>>he uses "ham jaao.ngaa" which is used in the Jamshedpur area
>>of Bihar, but I have never seen [ "masculine" + jaao.ngii ]
>>uses which are typical only of south-indian.
>>
>
>
> Rawat,
> I don't understand the basis of your "ling shankaa" or gender
> confusion in that statement above. 'Laaloo hindi' is also spoken by
> Rabri.
>
> Pradeep
> P.S. "ham" is also used by females. Recall, JC in QSQT.
ham muu.nd ke palko.n ko - mala sinha
ham haale dil sunaae.nge - female dancer
ham hai.n someting 2 baazaar kii tarah - female
ham i.ntazaar kare.nge - female
ham ne sanam ko Kat likhaa - smitaa
ham se bhii kar lo - female
>
>
>
>>in the above attributed laluu statement also, "sasur" has
>>been used as a takiyakalaam.
>>
>>-Rawat
>
Pradeep Dubey
> Pradeep Dubey wrote:
> > vsr...@HCLInfinet.com wrote in message news:<3E3204FC...@HCLInfinet.com>...
> >
> >>>All these variants are still less assertive than latest hindi variant
> >>>of laaloo hindi, "ham sasur ghar jaao.ngii' :-)
> >>
> >>he uses "ham jaao.ngaa" which is used in the Jamshedpur area
> >>of Bihar, but I have never seen [ "masculine" + jaao.ngii ]
> >>uses which are typical only of south-indian.
> >>
> >
> >
> > Rawat,
> > I don't understand the basis of your "ling shankaa" or gender
> > confusion in that statement above. 'Laaloo hindi' is also spoken by
> > Rabri.
> >
> > Pradeep
> > P.S. "ham" is also used by females. Recall, JC in QSQT.
>
> ham muu.nd ke palko.n ko - mala sinha
> ham haale dil sunaae.nge - female dancer
> ham hai.n someting 2 baazaar kii tarah - female
Love it Surjit ji ... this song is perhaps Majrooh's best ...
ham hai.n mataaye-koocha-o-baazaar kii tarah - Film: Dastak (filmed on ?)
(hum bazaar mein rakhaa saamaan jaisii hoo.n) :-)
Pradeep