Difference between Ghazals and Songs
sum...@fundycs.ca
hello again;
what would the difference be between a ghazal and a song;
can the following songs from Hindi movies be classified as ghazals:
*Unke khayal aaye to, aate chale gaye. . .from Lal Patthar (I think)
*Kabhi kisi ko muqqamal jahan nahin milta. . .from Ahista Ahista
*E-dil-e nadaan, arzoo kya hai, just-o-ju kya hai. . .from Razia Sultan
as well
Is the following song from Bahu Begam?
*Hum intezaar karenge, hum intezaar karenge
Khuda kare ke qayaamat ho aur tu aaye. . . .
your input/feedback will be appreciated as usual.
thanks
seema
Prince Kohli
sum...@fundycs.ca writes:
|>
|> what would the difference be between a ghazal and a song;
|>
|> can the following songs from Hindi movies be classified as ghazals:
A reasonably long time ago, Abhay wrote an article which described,
in nice interesting detail, what a ghazal is and isn't. It's a great
help in answering questions like the above. To peruse the article,
you can send a mail to the RAM (Rmim AutoMailer) with
Subject: rmim article 20, which will automatically send it to you
via email. Or you can look at it at Satish's rmim page at the URL
http://www.cs.umn.edu/~subraman/rmim.html
Cheers,
-Prince
Harish Suvarna
sum...@fundycs.ca wrote:
>hello again;
>
>what would the difference be between a ghazal and a song;
>
>can the following songs from Hindi movies be classified as ghazals:
>
>
>*Kabhi kisi ko muqqamal jahan nahin milta. . .from Ahista Ahista
>
>*E-dil-e nadaan, arzoo kya hai, just-o-ju kya hai. . .from Razia Sultan
>
>as well
>
>Is the following song from Bahu Begam?
>
>*Hum intezaar karenge, hum intezaar karenge
> Khuda kare ke qayaamat ho aur tu aaye. . . .
>
>your input/feedback will be appreciated as usual.
>
>thanks
>seema
I _think_ that it is in bahu begum and must be created by Roshan Saab.
After seeing Dr.Kohli's pointer, I read about definition of Ghazal.
I do not know the first few lines of all the above songs. Hence could not
make whether these are ghazals.
Abhay saab, your post in archives helped me to know what exactly is ghazal.
Shukria.
>
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U.V. Ravindra
sum...@fundycs.ca wrote:
>hello again;
>what would the difference be between a ghazal and a song;
>can the following songs from Hindi movies be classified as ghazals:
>*Unke khayal aaye to, aate chale gaye. . .from Lal Patthar (I think)
>*Kabhi kisi ko muqqamal jahan nahin milta. . .from Ahista Ahista
>*E-dil-e nadaan, arzoo kya hai, just-o-ju kya hai. . .from Razia Sultan
>as well
>Is the following song from Bahu Begam?
>*Hum intezaar karenge, hum intezaar karenge
> Khuda kare ke qayaamat ho aur tu aaye. . . .
>your input/feedback will be appreciated as usual.
>thanks
>seema
Well, first of all note the following things:
1. Several film songs are GHazals
2. Many GHazals are film songs
3. Not all film songs are GHazals
4. Not all GHazals are film songs
(that last one was obvious, wasn't it?).
Several film songs are geets, a few are nazms, a few kavitayeN, and
all of them are naGHme.
So what's the difference, eh? Go to
http://164.164.10.2/~uvr/asadindex.html
for more information.
Ravindra.
*selling my wares over the Internet*
*AND paying a tribute to Abhay's contributions*
SAMIUDDIN MOHAMMED
In article <4mavhh$1d...@darwin.nbnet.nb.ca>, sum...@fundycs.ca writes:
>hello again;
>
>what would the difference be between a ghazal and a song;
Prince has already directed you to the wonderful post by Abhay, so I won't
repeat the info... it is very informative and worth checking out right now.
>can the following songs from Hindi movies be classified as ghazals:
>
>*Unke khayal aaye to, aate chale gaye. . .from Lal Patthar (I think)
Yes, this is a GHazal. This along with "Aae bahaar banke lubhakar chale gae..."
(Rajhath) is my fav. Shanky-J GHazal.
>*Kabhi kisi ko muqqamal jahan nahin milta. . .from Ahista Ahista
This is also a GHazal composed by the GHazal guru Khaiyyam.
>*E-dil-e nadaan, arzoo kya hai, just-o-ju kya hai. . .from Razia Sultan
This is not a GHazal although it's composed by Khaiyyam as well.
>*Hum intezaar karenge, hum intezaar karenge
> Khuda kare ke qayaamat ho aur tu aaye. . . .
This is not a GHazal either as the stanzas have 3 lines each. Each sher in a
GHazal is composed of 2 lines. Again, refer to Abhay's post for more details.
Bahu Begum does have an excellent GHazal though. A beautiful Sahir/Roshan
combo sung in an excellent fashion by Asha:
"Nikle thhe kahan jaane ke lie, pahunche hai kahaan maalum nahin
Ab apne bhaTakte quadmon ko, manzil ke nishaan maalum nahin...."
The complete lyrics ought to be there in the ISB.
Sami Mohammed (A Naushad fan)
>seema
********************************************************************************
Lines for the day:
Kaun rota hai kisi aur ki quaatir ai dost
Sab ko apni hi kisi baat pe rona aaya
Sahir in the GHazal "Kabhi KHud pe kabhi haalaat pe rona aaya..." ********************************************************************************
anand
In article <4mdvuj$1n...@rtpnews.raleigh.ibm.com>, uvr says...
>>seema
>
>Well, first of all note the following things:
>
>1. Several film songs are GHazals
>2. Many GHazals are film songs
>3. Not all film songs are GHazals
>4. Not all GHazals are film songs
>(that last one was obvious, wasn't it?).
:) The above statement is a verrrrry profound one Ravindra! ... fit
enough to be a ghazal by itself!! :)
regards,
Anand :)
Syed Rizwan
In <4mavhh$1d...@darwin.nbnet.nb.ca> sum...@fundycs.ca writes:
>what would the difference be between a ghazal and a song;
Hello Seema,
I guess there is a VERY fine line that divides some of the
hindi songs and ghazals. I am not aware of the technicalities involved
in the determination of a ghazal from a song, but will give you what
the following are, in my opinion, and hope that it sheds some light:
>*Unke khayal aaye to, aate chale gaye. . .from Lal Patthar (I think)
I'd say this was just a slow song, beautifuly sung by Rafi, if I'm not
mistaken. Haven't heard it in probably 10 years or so, and I was only
12 at the time, that's why I'm not sure. :)
>*Kabhi kisi ko muqqamal jahan nahin milta. . .from Ahista Ahista
Definitely a ghazal. Matter of fact, if I remember correctly, it is
penned by some famous Shaayar like Akbar Ilah-aabadi or somebody.
>*E-dil-e nadaan, arzoo kya hai, just-o-ju kya hai. . .from Razia Sultan
I'd say a ghazal, sung like a 'geet' in the movie
>Is the following song from Bahu Begam?
>*Hum intezaar karenge, hum intezaar karenge
> Khuda kare ke qayaamat ho aur tu aaye. . . .
Again, definitely a song. A GREAT duet, by the way.. :)
Hope this helps you somewhat....
Rizwan
Harish Suvarna
Seenag, Can you list 4 or 6 lines of above songs. I would like
to take these as exercises to nail down my fundas of ghazal and song.
Thanks.
Kishor
hi,
Syed Rizwan wrote:
> >*E-dil-e nadaan, arzoo kya hai, just-o-ju kya hai. . .from Razia Sultan
>
> I'd say a ghazal, sung like a 'geet' in the movie
>
I remember one more song. "yeh na thi hamaari quisamat" , a Ghalib
ghazal sung like a geet by
Lata Mangeshakar. I do not recollect the name of the film.
bye,
Kishor.
> Rizwan
David Anthony Windsor
sum...@fundycs.ca writes:
>>what would the difference be between a ghazal and a song;
Well, they're not mutually exclusive categories; a ghazal is a song. So,
the question is rather what distinguishes a ghazal from other songs.
I could well be wrong, but a ghazal to me is a poetic form distinguished
by lines of same length forming into couplets, and with a rhyme sequence
of aabaca.
So to the examples:
>>*Unke khayal aaye to, aate chale gaye. . .from Lal Patthar
It's in the ISB, and sung by Rafi, and written by Hasrat. It is a ghazal:
unke Khyaal aae to aate chale gae
diivaana zindagii ko banaate chale gae
jo saaNs aa rahii hai usii kaa payaam hai
betaabiyoN ko aur baRhaate chale gae
is dil se aa rahii hai kisii yaar kii sadaa
wiiraan meraa dil thaa basaate chale gae
hosh-o-hawaas pe mere bijlii sii gir gaii
mastii bharii nazar se pilaate chale gae
The rhyme is on 'aate', 'banaate', 'baRhaate', 'basaate', 'pilaate', and
'chale gae' forms the radeef (repeated words following the rhyme,
technically optional in the form but very common and appearing in all the
examples of ghazal given here).
>>*Kabhi kisi ko muqqamal jahan nahin milta. . .from Ahista Ahista
Syed Rizwan wrote:
> Definitely a ghazal. Matter of fact, if I remember correctly, it is
> penned by some famous Shaayar like Akbar Ilah-aabadi or somebody.
kabhi kisi ko mukammal jahaaN nahiiN miltaa
kahiiN zamiiN to kahiiN aasmaaN nahiiN miltaa
jise bhii dekhiye vo apne aap meN gum hai
zubaaN milii hai magar ham zubaaN nahiiN miltaa
bujhaa sakaa hai bhalaa kaun waqt ke shole
yeh aisi aag hai jis meN dhuaaN nahiiN miltaa
tere jahaaN meN aisaa nahiiN ke pyaar na ho
jahaaN ummeed ho is kii vahaaN nahiiN miltaa
It's also in the ISB. I've got this listed in Hit Filmi Geet as being by
Nida Fazli (well, actually its got something written like Prija Kazli,
but I'll make a guess) and sung by Bhupendra. The rhyme is on 'jahaaN',
'aasmaaN', 'zubaaN', 'dhuaaN' and 'wahaaN', and 'nahiiN miltaa' forms the
radeef.
>*E-dil-e nadaan, arzoo kya hai, just-o-ju kya hai. . .from Razia Sultan
Again in the ISB, sung by the GREATEST, though the lyricist isn't given:
ai dil-e-naadaan, ai dil-e-naadaan,
aarazuu kyaa hai, justajuu kyaa hai
ai dil-e-naadaan, ai dil-e-naadaan,
aarazuu kyaa hai, justajuu kyaa hai
ham bhaTakate haiN, kyoN bhaTakate haiN, dashto-seharaa meN
aisaa lagataa hai, mauj pyaasii hai, apane dariyaa meN
kaisii ulajhan hai, kyoN ye ulajhan hai
ek saayaa saa, rU-baruu kyaa hai
kyaa qayaamat hai, kyaa musiibat hai,
kah nahiiN sakate, kisakaa aramaaN hai
ziNdagii jaise, khoyii-khoyii hai, hairaaN hairaaN hai
ye zamiiN chup hai, aasamaaN chup hai
phir ye dha.Dakan sii, chaar sU kyaa hai
aisii raahoN meN, kitane kaaNTe haiN,
aarazuuoN ne, aarazuuoN ne,
har kisii dil ko, dard baaNTe haiN,
kitane ghaayal haiN, kitane bismil haiN,
is khudaaii meN, ek tuu kyaa hai
Though divided up here, these lines form into couplets with the rhyme on
'justajuu', 'ruubaruu', 'suu', aur 'tuu'.
Another from this movie,
teraa hijra mera nasiib hai teraa Gam hi merii hayaat hai
mujhe terii duurii kaa Gam ho kyuuN tuu kahiiN bhii ho mere sath hai
mere waaste tere naam par koii harf aae--nahiiN, nahiiN
magar mere ruubaruu terii zaat hai teraa hijra mera nasiib hai
teraa wasl ai merii dilrubaa nahiiN merii kismat to kyaa hua
merii mahajbiiN yahi kam hai kyaa terii hasratoN ka to sath hai
teraa ishq mujh pe hai meharbaaN mere dil ko haasil hai do jahaaN
meri jaan-e-jaaN isii baat par merii jaan jaae to baat hai
by Nida Fazli is a ghazal (note also how some of the lines, that divide
metrically into two parts, with internal rhyme); and another by
Jan Nisar Akhtar from the same movie is one as well:
aaii zanjeer kii jhankaar Khuda Khair kare
dil hua kis ka giraftaar Khuda Khair kare
jaane yeh kaun meri rooh ko chhuu kar guzra
ek qayaamat huii bedaar Khudaa Khair kare
lamhaa merii aaNkhoN meN khiNcha jaati hai
ek chamakti hui talwaar Khudaa Khair kare
Khuun dil ka na chhalak jaae kahiiN aaNkhoN se
ho na jaae kahiiN izahaar Khuda na kare
where here the rhyme (qaafiya) is on 'jhankaar', 'giraftaar', 'bedaar'
'talwaar' aur 'izahaar', and the phrase 'Khuda Khair kare' forms the radeef.
>>Is the following song from Bahu Begam?
>
>>*Hum intezaar karenge, hum intezaar karenge
>> Khuda kare ke qayaamat ho aur tu aaye. . . .
Syed Rizwan wrote:
> Again, definitely a song. A GREAT duet, by the way.. :)
hum intazaar karenge teri qayaamat tak
Khuda kare ki qayaamat ho aur tu aaye
hum intazaar karenge teri qayaamat tak
Khuda kare ki qayaamat ho aur tu aaye
yeh intazaar bhi ek imtahaan hota hai
isi se ishq ka shola jawaan hota hai
yeh intazaar salaamat ho aur tu aae
Khuda kare ki qayaamat ho aur tu aaye
bichhaae shauq ke saj de wafa ki raahoN meN
khaRe hai diid kii hasrat lie nigaahoN meN
qubuul dil ko ibaadat ho aur tuu aae
Khuda kare ki qayaamat ho aur tu aae
vo khushnasiib hai jis ko tuu intaKhaab kare
Khuda hamaari muhabbat ko kaamyaab kare
jawaaN sitaaraa-e-kismat ho aur tuu aae
Khuda kare ki qayaamat ho aur tu aae
By Sahir. It's sung by Rafi and Lata (so of course it's GREAT :-).
There's a different version in the ISB (one sung by Rafi alone) that
has Majrooh listed as the lyricist.
Now Syed Rizwan sahib said that this is definitely a song. No doubt I'm
wrong, and am merely showing up my lack of knowledge, but . . .
With a long radeef of 'ho aur tuu aae/Khuda kare ke qayaamat ho aur tuu
aaye', the rhyme falls on 'qayaamat', 'salaamat', 'iwaadat' and 'kismat',
and so it's a ghazal with a long line, divided into two which also
observe internal rhyme.
Cheers,
David Windsor David....@anu.edu.au
aaii bahaar o gulshan gul se bharaa hai lekin
har gosha-e-chaman meN Khali hai jaa-e-bulbul
(Mir)
U.V. Ravindra
Kishor wrote:
>
> hi,
>
> Syed Rizwan wrote:
> > >*E-dil-e nadaan, arzoo kya hai, just-o-ju kya hai. . .from Razia Sultan
> >
> >
>
> I remember one more song. "yeh na thi hamaari quisamat" , a Ghalib
> ghazal sung like a geet by
> Lata Mangeshakar. I do not recollect the name of the film.
> bye,
> Kishor.
>
> > Rizwan
It was sung by Suraiya, not by Lata Mangeshkar, in the film
(no prizes for guessing) Mirza GHalib, starring Talat Mehmood
as the Mirza and Suraiya as the korner-waali koTHe-waali
nautch girl. Music by Ghulam Mohammed, I think. The film
has some very good, albeit filmi, renditions of some of
GHalib's most popular GHazals by Talat, Suraiya, and, of course,
Rafi. Rafi's rendition of the sh'er
"haiN aur bhi duniyA meiN suKHan_war bahut achchhe
kahte haiN ke GHalib ka hai andaaz-e-bayaaN aur"
is really ear-catchingly melodious. A film worth watching.
Regards,
Ravindra.
Neeraj Malhotra
n Fri, 10 May 1996, U.V. Ravindra wrote:
About the movie Mirza Ghalib :
> It was sung by Suraiya, not by Lata Mangeshkar, in the film
> (no prizes for guessing) Mirza GHalib, starring Talat Mehmood
> as the Mirza and Suraiya as the korner-waali koTHe-waali
The actor was Bharat Bhushan.
> utch girl. Music by Ghulam Mohammed, I think.
Definitely Ghulam Mohammed.
Suraiyya somehow sounded much softer and sweeter under Ghulam Mohammad.
- Neeraj M.
Nalini Ramji
David Anthony Windsor wrote:
> >>*Hum intezaar karenge, hum intezaar karenge
> >> Khuda kare ke qayaamat ho aur tu aaye. . . .
>
Actually, I believe that the female singer is Asha.
Nalini
David Anthony Windsor
I wrote:
>> >>*Hum intezaar karenge, hum intezaar karenge
>> >> Khuda kare ke qayaamat ho aur tu aaye. . . .
>>
>> By Sahir. It's sung by Rafi and Lata (so of course it's GREAT :-).
Nalini Ramji wrote:
>Actually, I believe that the female singer is Asha.
Oops, sorry, you're completely correct.
Cheers,
D