Hemant Kumar's short associations with some MDs
Ritu
I recently went on a CD buying expedition and ended up with 3 Hemant
Kumar CDs. While going through them a realisation dawned upon me. All
this while I had believed that Hemant Kumar as singer was best
exploited by either SD Burman or himself. With the rest he could sound
quite out of synch. While the above holds true in terms of the sheer
number of memorable (and high profile) songs he has in the category,
what I discovered that there are certain composers who used him
sparingly as a singer but exploited the richness and emotional appeal
in his voice really well. It's a mystery why he did not sing more for
them. The objective of this post (in addition to getting your opnions
on this observation) is to discover or rediscover more songs of
Hemantda with these composers.
In particular the more 'commercial' composers like SJ who are
generally written off by connoisseurs actually did a great job with
niche singers like Hemant Kumar and Talat Mehmood.
1. Naushad : Naushad and Hemant Kumar have two unforgettable songs
'Chandan ka Palna' and the later 'Insaaf ki dagar pe'. Apart from
these two songs I can't think of any other time these two artists came
together. Did they?
2. SJ : SJ also have two great songs with Hemantda. 'Rulakar chal
diye' and 'Yaad kiya dil ne'. Beyond these two songs is there anything
else?
3. Chitragupt : 'Din raat badalte hain'... again a beautiful song.
Great usage of Hemant's voice. Any other songs?
4. Ravi: Since he was Hemant Kumar's assistant there should be many
songs but I can only thing of 'Darshan do ghanshyam nath'
5. Roshan: He has exploited the emotional depth in Hemant Kumar's
voice with breathtaking results in 'Chupa lo yun dil mein'. Is that
all these two stalwarts have together?
Further, I had also bought a CD of Valmiki Bhajans that Hemantda sang
in the late 70s. My father used to have an LP of the same and what I
remember the most about that LP was the tremendous bass in Hemant's
voice. When he sang the Arti 膳almiki jai jai' his voice was nerve
tingling. However, I was extremely disappointed with the CD. The whole
effort sounds washed out. I don't know if it is because I was
expecting too much or remembered the songs to be better than they were
or was it the poor quality of the CD. Has anyone gone through the
same?
Waiting for your inputs.
Cheers
Ritu
Satish Kalra
"Ritu" <rc0...@rediffmail.com> wrote in message
news:8777cccd.04040...@posting.google.com...
> Hi Folks,
>
> I recently went on a CD buying expedition and ended up with 3 Hemant
> Kumar CDs.
You did not tell us which 3 CDs you ended up buying (beisdes the others)?
:-)
> In particular the more 'commercial' composers like SJ who are
> generally written off by connoisseurs actually did a great job with
> niche singers like Hemant Kumar and Talat Mehmood.
> 2. SJ : SJ also have two great songs with Hemantda. 'Rulakar chal
> diye' and 'Yaad kiya dil ne'. Beyond these two songs is there anything
> else?
Right off the bat, I can recollect "aa niil gagan tale pyaar ham karein..."
from Baadshaah, and "ham to hain khel khilaune khelo jii bhar ke raam..."
from Shikast. These two films from 1954 and 1953, respectively, saw the
only association between S-J and Hemant. BTW, all four songs are
outstanding, IMO, especially the bhajan style song in Shikast.
> 4. Ravi: Since he was Hemant Kumar's assistant there should be many
> songs but I can only thing of 'Darshan do ghanshyam nath'
"ham to piike chale, ab to apanii balaa se duniyaa jale..." from Albeli,
Ravi's debut film as an independent MD; a duet from the same film wiht Lata,
and of course, many more in other films.
> Further, I had also bought a CD of Valmiki Bhajans that Hemantda sang
> in the late 70s. My father used to have an LP of the same and what I
> remember the most about that LP was the tremendous bass in Hemant's
> voice. When he sang the Arti 'Valmiki jai jai' his voice was nerve
> tingling. However, I was extremely disappointed with the CD. The whole
> effort sounds washed out. I don't know if it is because I was
> expecting too much or remembered the songs to be better than they were
> or was it the poor quality of the CD. Has anyone gone through the
> same?
>
I had bought a 5-CD set of Hemant's in the Legend series. All HMV really
did was make that compilation from "sound-improved" (I call it sound
mutilated) recordings ostensibly for the Revival series. Is it the same
treatment they gave it to the Valmiki bhajans CD?
--
Happy Listenings.
Satish Kalra
Tadatmya Vaishnav
> Cheers
> Ritu
Adding to the list some solos that I have heard and like:
Kalyanji-Anandji:
1. Chaandi ke chand tukadon ke liye - Satta Bazaar
2. Tumhen jo bhi dekh lega, kisika na ho sakega - Majboor
Kishore Kumar:
1. Raahi tu mat ruk jaanaa - Door Gagan ki Chhaon Men
2. Title song - Door ka raahi
Salil Chaudhary:
1. Ganga aaye kahan se - Kabuliwalla
2. Mere man bhula bhula kaahe dole - Biraj Bahu
Mukul Roy
1. Hai yeh duniya kaun si ae dil mujhe kya ho gaya - Sailaab
Ravi
1. Insaanon ne paise ke liye aapas ka pyar mitaa daalaa - Paisa ya Pyar
Anil Biswas
1. Kah rahi hai zindagi, ji sake to ji - Jalti Nishani
Snehal Bhatkar
1. Laharon pe lahar, ulfat hai jawaan - Chhabili
Madan Mohan
1. Le le dard paraya, kar de door gham ka saaya - Chhote Babu
Sardar Malik
1. Main gharibon ka dil hoon vatan ki zabaan - Aab-e-Hayaat
N. Dutta
1. Yeh baharon ka samaa, chaand taaron ka samaa - Milap
S. Mohinder
1. Yeh sone ki duniya, yeh chaandi ki duniya - Do Dost
C. Ramchandra
1. Zameen chal rahi, aasmaan chal rahaa hai - Pehli Jhalak
Many of these are in the Hemant Kumar - Golden Collection cassette.
Regards,
Tadatmya.
Tadatmya Vaishnav
"Tadatmya Vaishnav" <tavai...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c4j36g$2k8cgm$1...@ID-192702.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
>
> Adding to the list some solos that I have heard and like:
Sorry to follow up on my own post...but I forgot to add one of my
favourite Hemant Kumar songs -
'Aaya toofaan....kaise koii jiye, zahar hai zindagi', music: Timir
Baran, film: Baadbaan
Regards,
Tadatmya.
Srinivas Ganti
>"Ritu" <rc0...@rediffmail.com> wrote
> 5. Roshan: He has exploited the emotional depth in Hemant Kumar's
> voice with breathtaking results in 'Chupa lo yun dil mein'. Is that
> all these two stalwarts have together?
well there's atleast one more that I can recall. Its a fabulous duet
with Lata from the movie Aagosh, "dhiire dhiire chhaD gayaa
nadii me.n paanii".
sg.
Afzal A. Khan
This could well be "chaRh" instead of "chhaD".
BTW, did anyone mention "Jaag dard-e-ishq jaag"
from "Anarkali" ?
Afzal
Ashok
>
>
> BTW, did anyone mention "Jaag dard-e-ishq jaag"
> from "Anarkali" ?
>
>
> Afzal
Mentioning songs like that to SDB freaks would be like casting
pearls in front of ... you know what.
Ashok
Deepak Sabnis
In article <406DAB18...@privacy.net>, me_a...@privacy.net says...
>
>
> BTW, did anyone mention "Jaag dard-e-ishq jaag"
> from "Anarkali" ?
>
have only 2 stanzas on them. The movie has a 3 stanzas in the song. The
first stanza (sung by Hemant Kumar) is missing from the tapes or CDs.
It goes some thing like -
aa.nkh jaraa lagii teri, saraa jahaa.n so gayaa
ye zamiin so gayii, aasamaan so gayaa
so gayaa pyaar ka chiraag...
Deepak
my favorite non-filmi sung by Hemant -
1. zamaanaa kyaa kahegaa tum agar hamko bhula do ge, hamaare pyaar ki ...
2. kal terii tasviir ko sajade kiye hai.n raat bhar, hum ne terii yaad ke
aa.nsoo piye hai.n raat bhar
Satish Kalra
news:c4kf5p$2iousb$1...@ID-74854.news.uni-berlin.de...
As long as we keep bringing out the really "bhuule bisare giit" of Hemant,
it does not matter who gets the fodder.
A couple more sweeties from Hemant - "...do bol tere miiThe miiThe, dil jaan
ke maalik ban baiThe...", from Daaraa (1953),
and "lauT gayaa gam kaa zamaanaa..." from Naya Adami. Both duets with Lata.
Mohd. Shafi wove magic in the Daaraa composition!
Re. Deepak Sabnis' post re the third stanza in the song (actually the first
on 78 rpm reocrds), I am not sure if that stanza was in the film or not.
Can someone who has recently seen the film or has the VHS/DVD/VCD confirm?
Arun Iyengar
news:406DAB18...@privacy.net...
> This could well be "chaRh" instead of "chhaD".
>
> BTW, did anyone mention "Jaag dard-e-ishq jaag"
> from "Anarkali" ?
Vasant Desai's Lata-Hemant stunner "nain so nain naahii milaao" deserves a
mention at the top as well.
There are no dearth of good songs by Hemant with other MDs (other than
himself and SDB). Whether they are good renditions are not is another matter
altogether :-) Some notable ones are
S Mohinder: duet with Lata "aa aajaa aajaa o jaanevafaa",
CR: "zi.ndagii pyaar kii jo chaar ghaDii hotii hai", Lata duets "badalii
me.n chhupe chaa.Nd", "umr huii tumase mile"
Salilda: "ga.ngaa aaye kahaa.N se", Lata duet "halake halake chalo
saa.Nvare", Geeta duet "ho jab se milii tose akhiyaa.N" (Tune similar to
Bhupen Hazarika's maulaa maulaa in Rudaali),
Snehal Bhatkar: "laharo.n pe lahar"
Ravi: Lata duet "muskuraatii huii chaa.Ndanii"
KA: Lata duets "o nii.nd na mujhko aaye", "tumhe.n yaad hogaa kabhii ham
mile the"
There must be plenty more.
A
--
(Remove 999 to reply)
Deepak Sabnis
"Satish Kalra" <Satish...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:vv6dncOxYr_...@comcast.com...
> Re. Deepak Sabnis' post re the third stanza in the song (actually the
first
> on 78 rpm reocrds), I am not sure if that stanza was in the film or not.
> Can someone who has recently seen the film or has the VHS/DVD/VCD confirm?
It is indeed the first stanzaa in the movie. I have a VCD of Anarkali that I
bought 3 years ago from Rhythm House in Bombay. Must have watched 5 times in
last 3 years and still enjoy it.
Cheers...
Deepak
Sudhir
song, under other MDs (excluding SDB and Ravi, with whom he had
quite
a number of songs). That may explain, why he sang 1 or 2, but in
most cases less han 5 songs for: SJ, Naushad, Roshan, Anil
Biswas,
C Ramchandra, Vasant Desai, Sardar Malik, S. Mohinder,
Kalyanji Anandji, N. Dutta, Laxmikant Pyarelal and even O P
Nayyar
(I am excluding: Kishore Kumar as an MD, since he only composed for
his own films). He had sung for Madan Mohan, but that song is not on
my Favorite List.
I would like to add two great song:
Aa Aa Ja, Aaja O Jaan-e-Wafa (with Lata) / SHIRIN FARHAD
/
S. Mohinder
Nain So Nain / Jhanak Jhanak .... / Vasant Desai
Plus one good song:
Suraj Re Jalte Rahna ( Jagat Bhar Ki Roshani Ke) /
Harishchandra Taramat / Laxmikant
Pyarelal
The OPN song is a marginal one for me:
Apna Maata Ke / Sambandh
Sudhir
----------------------
rc0...@rediffmail.com (Ritu) wrote in message
Prithviraj Dasgupta
> Hi Folks,
>
> I recently went on a CD buying expedition and ended up with 3 Hemant
> Kumar CDs. While going through them a realisation dawned upon me. All
> this while I had believed that Hemant Kumar as singer was best
> exploited by either SD Burman or himself. With the rest he could sound
> quite out of synch. While the above holds true in terms of the sheer
> number of memorable (and high profile) songs he has in the category,
> what I discovered that there are certain composers who used him
> sparingly as a singer but exploited the richness and emotional appeal
> in his voice really well.
(snipped reference to Hemant's work with some HFM MDs)
I have compiled a list of Hemant's Hindi (and other language)
songs at:
http://faculty.ist.unomaha.edu/pdasgupta/hemanta/discography
The contents of these pages should answer most of the queries
you have about MD-s for whom Hemant sang.
[This Webpage used to be easily returned by search engines when
it was at its old home (ucsb.edu domain). Since I moved it
to a new domain (unomaha.edu) it is not returned as well
by search engines:(]
> It's a mystery why he did not sing more for
> them. The objective of this post (in addition to getting your opnions
> on this observation) is to discover or rediscover more songs of
> Hemantda with these composers.
>
> In particular the more 'commercial' composers like SJ who are
> generally written off by connoisseurs actually did a great job with
> niche singers like Hemant Kumar and Talat Mehmood.
Here is something I wrote on RMIM couple of years
ago. This might be a possible explanation to your
query about sparse body of work between SJ-Hemant:
HemantK's wife Bela Mukherjee mentions in her interview
given to the "Anandalok" magazine for the June
2001 issue that SJ offered Hemant a deal
after Nagin...they would give Hemant songs
in their movies provided Hemant quit
composing himself. Hemant evidently refused
to go ahead with anything like this.
-Prithviraj
Ashok
>
>Re. Deepak Sabnis' post re the third stanza in the song (actually the first
>on 78 rpm reocrds), I am not sure if that stanza was in the film or not.
>Can someone who has recently seen the film or has the VHS/DVD/VCD confirm?
>
Yes, it is there. In fact, the film version has some additional
features that are not there in the three-stanza version one gets
to hear on the radio--presumably the 78-rpm version:
* Hemant's aalaap at the beginning is longer
* The stanza lines are repeated
* The film version ends with a nice cadence--Hemant finishes
off with "jaag jaag ... " somewhat like in his stanza and
fairly extended dance music follows
Worth extracting the audio from the DVD.
Ashok
Prithviraj Dasgupta
> In article <406DAB18...@privacy.net>, me_a...@privacy.net says...
> >
> >
> > BTW, did anyone mention "Jaag dard-e-ishq jaag"
> > from "Anarkali" ?
> >
> Really beautiful song. BTW, all the tapes and CDs available commercially
> have only 2 stanzas on them. The movie has a 3 stanzas in the song. The
> first stanza (sung by Hemant Kumar) is missing from the tapes or CDs.
>
> It goes some thing like -
>
> aa.nkh jaraa lagii teri, saraa jahaa.n so gayaa
> ye zamiin so gayii, aasamaan so gayaa
> so gayaa pyaar ka chiraag...
>
(snipped)
These stanzas with the rest of the song were actually
commercially released, not in India, but in the US.
It is on the LP record titled "Modern Motion Picture
Music of India - Lata Mangeshkar and Hemant Kumar",
Capitol of the World Series. The songs are mentioned as
"recorded in Calcutta" while the record is "made
in USA" in 1956. The record has 12 songs, 6 each from
Nagin and Anarkali on each side.
I initially thought all the songs were recorded from
78 rpms. But I am not sure about the source of the
"jaag dard-e-ishq" song. AFAIK, the 78 record made
in India did not have this stanza. This song with all
3 stanzas is about 3 min on this LP and is shorter
than the film version.
-Prithviraj
Roop Singh Chandel (Assoc Prof)
joshilay
R.D.Burman
1. Aaja mere pyar aaja - Heeralal Pannalal
2. Masti mein baith ke lagaao - Chor Ho To Aisa
aanand
they are quite few likes in anarkali, nastik etc.
rgds
anand.
"Deepak Sabnis" <deepakd...@hp.com> wrote in message news:<iEjbc.2263$tX4....@news.cpqcorp.net>...
Afzal A. Khan
Prithviraj Dasgupta wrote:
> Here is something I wrote on RMIM couple of years
> ago. This might be a possible explanation to your
> query about sparse body of work between SJ-Hemant:
>
> HemantK's wife Bela Mukherjee mentions in her interview
> given to the "Anandalok" magazine for the June
> 2001 issue that SJ offered Hemant a deal
> after Nagin...they would give Hemant songs
> in their movies provided Hemant quit
> composing himself. Hemant evidently refused
> to go ahead with anything like this.
>
> -Prithviraj
With due respect to her, I find this unbelievable.
After all, how many songs would SJ have given HK in
an year --- 7 or 8 ? And that at a time when a singer
got barely Rs. 500/- or Rs. 600/- for a song. OTOH,
HK could have bagged at least 4 or 5 films per year
(after the resounding success of "Nagin") and could
have earned far more than as a singer. HK was nobody's
fool and SJ themselves would have to be living in a fool's
paradise if they thought otherwise.
Afzal
Ritu
> {Some portions snipped....}
>
> "Ritu" <rc0...@rediffmail.com> wrote in message
> news:8777cccd.04040...@posting.google.com...
> > Hi Folks,
> >
> > I recently went on a CD buying expedition and ended up with 3 Hemant
> > Kumar CDs.
>
> You did not tell us which 3 CDs you ended up buying (beisdes the others)?
> :-)
>
It was a 2 CD set of Hemant Kumar's Golden Collection, the Valmiki
Bhajans CD (on an aside I did not know even Valmiki is 'bhagawan'. I
thought he was just a writer) and a CD of Madhumati and Nagin. The
only thing that I missed out in the Nagin CD is that 'Yaad rakhna
pyaar ki nishaani' is cut off. I should have checked before buying it.
I also bought a single CD Golden Collection of Hemant Kumar which I
think I'll gift to a friend because most of them repeat.
A nice CD I did get was a combination of 'Anhonee' with 'Bewafa'.
That's a great buy and makes up for my overgoing board with Hemant
Kumar :).
> > In particular the more 'commercial' composers like SJ who are
> > generally written off by connoisseurs actually did a great job with
> > niche singers like Hemant Kumar and Talat Mehmood.
>
>
> > 2. SJ : SJ also have two great songs with Hemantda. 'Rulakar chal
> > diye' and 'Yaad kiya dil ne'. Beyond these two songs is there anything
> > else?
>
> Right off the bat, I can recollect "aa niil gagan tale pyaar ham karein..."
> from Baadshaah, and "ham to hain khel khilaune khelo jii bhar ke raam..."
> from Shikast. These two films from 1954 and 1953, respectively, saw the
> only association between S-J and Hemant. BTW, all four songs are
> outstanding, IMO, especially the bhajan style song in Shikast.
Haven't heard the Shikast songs. Is this available commercially?
>
> > Further, I had also bought a CD of Valmiki Bhajans that Hemantda sang
> > in the late 70s. My father used to have an LP of the same and what I
> > remember the most about that LP was the tremendous bass in Hemant's
> > voice. When he sang the Arti 'Valmiki jai jai' his voice was nerve
> > tingling. However, I was extremely disappointed with the CD. The whole
> > effort sounds washed out. I don't know if it is because I was
> > expecting too much or remembered the songs to be better than they were
> > or was it the poor quality of the CD. Has anyone gone through the
> > same?
> >
>
> I had bought a 5-CD set of Hemant's in the Legend series. All HMV really
> did was make that compilation from "sound-improved" (I call it sound
> mutilated) recordings ostensibly for the Revival series. Is it the same
> treatment they gave it to the Valmiki bhajans CD?
No this is just bad conversion from the LP. It's by some obscure Ram
Recording Company. Since the original was released quite late in the
day logically the quality should be good. But it isn't.
Cheers
Ritu
Ritu
> "Afzal A. Khan" <me_a...@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:406DAB18...@privacy.net...
>
>
>
> > This could well be "chaRh" instead of "chhaD".
> >
> > BTW, did anyone mention "Jaag dard-e-ishq jaag"
> > from "Anarkali" ?
>
>
> Vasant Desai's Lata-Hemant stunner "nain so nain naahii milaao" deserves a
> mention at the top as well.
Yes surely it does as does the beautiful 'Zindagi pyar ki do chaar
ghadi' by CR (I had initially left this out because there are reports
of Hemant having composed this himself).
>
> There are no dearth of good songs by Hemant with other MDs (other than
> himself and SDB). Whether they are good renditions are not is another matter
> altogether :-) Some notable ones are
Basically what I was talking about was the 'Golden Collection' type of
songs. Meaning famous and memorable songs. If you make a list of the
top 25 songs of Hemant Kumar as a singer, Naushad, SJ, CR, Vasant
Desai, Roshan all make an appearance albeit with just 1 or max 2
songs. SDB and Hemant himself have a higher number.
As far as renditions go, speaking for myself, I find Hemant Kumar
terribly off-colour in a large number of songs. They become a
monotonous drone and he is also slightly off-key at times. But when
used properly the magnetism in his voice is incomparable. I find him
irresistable in songs like 'Chandan ka palna', 'Chupa lo yoon dil
mein', 'Zindagi pyar ki do chaar' etc..
>
> S Mohinder: duet with Lata "aa aajaa aajaa o jaanevafaa",
Isn't it Geeta Dutt? Or am I confusing it with a Hemant-Geeta tandem.
>
> Salilda: "ga.ngaa aaye kahaa.N se", Lata duet "halake halake chalo
> saa.Nvare", Geeta duet "ho jab se milii tose akhiyaa.N" (Tune similar to
> Bhupen Hazarika's maulaa maulaa in Rudaali),
Again Salil-Hemant IMO, could not really recreate their bangla magic
in Hindi. Salil also gave a large number of those songs to Mukesh in
Hindi. I find the same thing with Hemant-Geeta in Hindi. The chemistry
one sees in their bangla output is more or less missing in their Hindi
work.
Cheers
Ritu
Ritu
Bandar?
Ganti... look what Ashok called you :)!!!
Btw wasn't this song also composed by Hemant himself?
Cheers
Ritu
>
>
> Ashok
Satish Kalra
karein..."
> > from Baadshaah, and "ham to hain khel khilaune khelo jii bhar ke
raam..."
> > from Shikast. These two films from 1954 and 1953, respectively, saw the
> > only association between S-J and Hemant. BTW, all four songs are
> > outstanding, IMO, especially the bhajan style song in Shikast.
>
> Haven't heard the Shikast songs. Is this available commercially?
Very much so, In fact, the CD combo is Shikast and Poonam. The latter had
all songs rendered by Lata only, solos or chorus. Whether that is a plus or
not depends upon the listener. :-) But it is a great CD to have - I never
tire of listening to it, though my most oft heard CD is Jaal/Patita.
I also know from some sources that this CD is not readily available any
more. So you know where to turn to if you do not find it in the market.
Satish Kalra
news:<c4kf5p$2iousb$1...@ID-74854.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> > In article <406DAB18...@privacy.net>, me_a...@privacy.net says...
> > >
> > >
> > > BTW, did anyone mention "Jaag dard-e-ishq jaag"
> > > from "Anarkali" ?
> > >
> > >
> > > Afzal
> >
> >
> > Mentioning songs like that to SDB freaks would be like casting
> > pearls in front of ... you know what.
>
> Bandar?
>
> Ganti... look what Ashok called you :)!!!
That reminds me of a dialogue between Bipin Gupta, Durga Khote, Shekhar and
Suchitra Sen in "Musaafir", in which Bipin Gupta and Durga Khote are the
parents of Shekhar, who has married Suchitra Sen after eloping from his
home. The dialogues go somewhat like:
Bipin Gupta (to Durga Khote): "samajh men nahiin aataa is bandar ke haaton
men ye maalaa kaise pad gayii!".
Shekhar: "pehle dekh to liijiiye ke maalaa asalii bhii hai yaa naklii".
Suchitra Sen: "chaliye, maalaa naklii hi sahii, par bandar to asalii hai".
Birbal
> 'Chandan ka Palna' and the later 'Insaaf ki dagar pe'. Apart from
> these two songs I can't think of any other time these two artists came
> together. Did they?
>
> 2. SJ : SJ also have two great songs with Hemantda. 'Rulakar chal
> diye' and 'Yaad kiya dil ne'. Beyond these two songs is there anything
> else?
>
> 3. Chitragupt : 'Din raat badalte hain'... again a beautiful song.
> Great usage of Hemant's voice. Any other songs?
>
> 4. Ravi: Since he was Hemant Kumar's assistant there should be many
> songs but I can only thing of 'Darshan do ghanshyam nath'
>
> 5. Roshan: He has exploited the emotional depth in Hemant Kumar's
> voice with breathtaking results in 'Chupa lo yun dil mein'. Is that
> all these two stalwarts have together?
Some more I can remember...
C.Ramchandra: Gagan zanzanaa rahaa (Nastik)
Ustad Ali Akbar Khan: Hai kahin par shaadmaanee (Andhiyaan)
Anil Biswas: Kah rahee hai zindagi(Raahi?)
I am sure there is plenty more.
UVR
> adhar...@hotmail.com (Ashok) wrote in message news:<c4kf5p$2iousb$1...@ID-74854.news.uni-berlin.de>...
>>In article <406DAB18...@privacy.net>, me_a...@privacy.net says...
>>> BTW, did anyone mention "Jaag dard-e-ishq jaag"
>>> from "Anarkali" ?
>>>
>>> Afzal
>>
>>Mentioning songs like that to SDB freaks would be like casting
>>pearls in front of ... you know what.
>
> Bandar?
This is neither here nor there, but, FWIW, the angrezi muhaavra
Ashok was going for actually uses 'suuar' (swine) in it, not
bandar, methinks.
-UVR.
Shalini Razdan
The video of "Shikast" is readily available, so if you can't find the CD or
the audio tape, you can always watch the movie. As a matter of fact, I
really liked the movie and highly recommend it.
Shalini
shekhar
(snipped)
> The OPN song is a marginal one for me:
>
> Apna Maata Ke / Sambandh
The other Sambandh song "Jo diya tha tum ne ek din" (Hemant/MK duet)
is superb, though.
Regards
Shekhar
>
> Sudhir
Kanti Shah
> Some more I can remember...
> C.Ramchandra: Gagan zanzanaa rahaa (Nastik)
>
> Ustad Ali Akbar Khan: Hai kahin par shaadmaanee (Andhiyaan)
>
> Anil Biswas: Kah rahee hai zindagi(Raahi?)
>
> I am sure there is plenty more.
Ravi: Pathhar ki tarah ho dil jiska (Non-Film)
Jab jab hota hai naash (Prabhu Ki Maya)
Kamal Das Gupta: Bhala tha kitna apana (Non-Film)
Naresh Bhattacharya: Aye dil tu kahin le chal (Shole)
Regards
Kanti Shah
Satish Kalra
news:c4nf38$jih$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
...snipped...
> Naresh Bhattacharya: Aye dil tu kahin le chal (Shole)
Now that is one beautiful song, for me at least. Thanks for reminding me
of it, have to give it a fresh listen since haven't heard it in ages now.
Prithviraj Dasgupta
(about Valmiki bhajans by Hemant CD)
> No this is just bad conversion from the LP. It's by some obscure Ram
> Recording Company. Since the original was released quite late in the
> day logically the quality should be good. But it isn't.
The CD that I have has a "Nuff" recording label and
has quite good recording/transfer. I had got it at
khazana-dot-com about 6 years ago and they still
have it in stock. It seems to be a legit copy as
it has copyright notices on it. I saw the original
LP record in Calcutta once, after I got the CD. I
think the LP was a Polydor label release in 1976.
-Prithviraj
Sudhir
========================
I have the 78 rpm version (recorded from the sttated disk)
The 1st Para is : Aankh Zara Lagi Teri / Hemant
2nd: Kis Ko sunaon / Lata
3rd: Aesi Chali Hawain / Lata
Length: 3:11 min
LP / Film is soundtrack version and does not have the 1st Para
Length: 3:07 minutes
For Mr. DasGupta
=============
Your Haathiwala LP (Anarkali + Nagin) was released in India
also, at a later date - LP # CLPC 24 (C is for Capitol Records).
It was also released in U.K.. by EMI. The LP's title (Modern
Motion Picture Music of India) was specifically designed to market
it to the British public. All the songs on this LP are 78 rpm version.
HMV had not yet set-up it's EP and then LP manufacturing
plant in 1956. The 1st EP was for made in 1958 or 1959.
The re-recorded or version songs can not be for for 5 or 6 songs
of both the films
SUDHIR
---------------------------
prith...@yahoo.com (Prithviraj Dasgupta) wrote in message
>
> These stanzas with the rest of the song were actually
> commercially released, not in India, but in the US.
> It is on the LP record titled "Modern Motion Picture
> Music of India - Lata Mangeshkar and Hemant Kumar",
> Capitol of the World Series. The songs are mentioned as
> "recorded in Calcutta" while the record is "made
> in USA" in 1956. The record has 12 songs, 6 each from
> Nagin and Anarkali on each side.
>
> I initially thought all the songs were recorded from
> 78 rpms. But I am not sure about the source of the
> "jaag dard-e-ishq" song. AFAIK, the 78 record made
> in India did not have this stanza.
by Sudhir: the 78 rpm record does have it
Ritu
Let me check again.. I might be confusing the recording company with
that of another bhajan CD I have. So you say your CD is as good as the
LP? I find the bass part almost missing in mine.
Ritu
Ritu
> "Ritu" <rc0...@rediffmail.com> wrote in message
> news:8777cccd.04040...@posting.google.com...
> > >
> > > Right off the bat, I can recollect "aa niil gagan tale pyaar ham
> karein..."
> > > from Baadshaah, and "ham to hain khel khilaune khelo jii bhar ke
> raam..."
> > > from Shikast. These two films from 1954 and 1953, respectively, saw the
> > > only association between S-J and Hemant. BTW, all four songs are
> > > outstanding, IMO, especially the bhajan style song in Shikast.
> >
> > Haven't heard the Shikast songs. Is this available commercially?
>
> Very much so, In fact, the CD combo is Shikast and Poonam. The latter had
> all songs rendered by Lata only, solos or chorus. Whether that is a plus or
> not depends upon the listener. :-) But it is a great CD to have - I never
> tire of listening to it, though my most oft heard CD is Jaal/Patita.
Thanks Shalini and Satish ji for the pointers. Shalini who are the
lead actors in Shikast? I doubt the video is available at my local
fellow but I shall keep an eye out for it.
>
> I also know from some sources that this CD is not readily available any
> more. So you know where to turn to if you do not find it in the market.
I have been meaning to turn that way from very long :). I think by the
time I end up 'happening' at your place I would have lost track of all
the stuff that I have been looking for!
Cheers
Ritu
P.S I enjoy the Jaal/Patita CD a lot too. I esp. like the Talat songs
in Patita. That's what I was saying. SJ have some great songs with
Talat.
Ritu
>
> my favorite non-filmi sung by Hemant -
>
> 1. zamaanaa kyaa kahegaa tum agar hamko bhula do ge, hamaare pyaar ki ...
> 2. kal terii tasviir ko sajade kiye hai.n raat bhar, hum ne terii yaad ke
> aa.nsoo piye hai.n raat bhar
Are these commercially available?
Ritu
Gee thanks UVR!
Just when I was trying to deflect the volley towards Ganti..
btw. this angrezi challenged bandar was curious to know what FWIW stands for.
Cheers
Ritu
Ritu
> Prithviraj Dasgupta wrote:
> > Here is something I wrote on RMIM couple of years
> > ago. This might be a possible explanation to your
> > query about sparse body of work between SJ-Hemant:
> >
> > HemantK's wife Bela Mukherjee mentions in her interview
> > given to the "Anandalok" magazine for the June
> > 2001 issue that SJ offered Hemant a deal
> > after Nagin...they would give Hemant songs
> > in their movies provided Hemant quit
> > composing himself. Hemant evidently refused
> > to go ahead with anything like this.
> >
>
>
> After all, how many songs would SJ have given HK in
> an year --- 7 or 8 ? And that at a time when a singer
> got barely Rs. 500/- or Rs. 600/- for a song. OTOH,
> HK could have bagged at least 4 or 5 films per year
> (after the resounding success of "Nagin") and could
> have earned far more than as a singer. HK was nobody's
> fool and SJ themselves would have to be living in a fool's
> paradise if they thought otherwise.
Afzal Saab, your argument actually strengthens Mrs Mukherjee's point.
SJ did not want Hemant to eat into their market so they offered him a
more high profile singing carrot to keep him away. Hemant was smarter
and knew there was more money in composing so did not take their
offer.
However, on an aside, I wonder if SJ were *that* insecure considering
they were market leaders at that time. Also apart from 'Nagin' and
'Miss Mary' did Hemant Kumar really have so many outright hits to his
credit that he would make someone of SJ's standing insecure? He was
always a side-player when in came to Hindi films esp. from a
commercial point of view.
I don't know if Nimish is done with uploading Rasikeshu episodes on
Anil Biswas talking about other composers. If he is then there is an
interesting observation. Anilda talks about almost all the MDs of the
golden era. He even includes bit players like Sajjad Hussain and
Jaidev. The only two people he misses out on are Hemant Kumar and
Shankar-Jaikishen. Pretty surprising.
Ritu
>
>
> Afzal
Afzal A. Khan
"For Whatever It Is Worth", methinks.
Afzal
Afzal A. Khan
> Ritu
But that was exactly my point. I don't think SJ were
naive enough to think that HK might be taken in by such
a meaningless offer. That is what makes Mrs. HK's story
quite unbelievable. Your other point (about HK being on
the periphery of Hindi film music) is well taken. Despite
excellent music scores in quite a few films, he was never
quite a centre-stage MD. Besides, his commitment to
Bengali cinema tended to reduce his contribution to the
Hindi film scene. And that again sort of undermines
Mrs. HK's story --- there was no reason for SJ to feel
insecure. Besides, there were quite a few other MDs
well-entrenched in the Bombay film world and who too
commanded a reasonable share of the music market, people
like Madan Mohan, Roshan, SDB, CR and even Naushad.
One more composer (who was on the scene rather less often)
couldn't have caused any worries to SJ.
Afzal
Afzal A. Khan
Ritu wrote:
> Thanks Shalini and Satish ji for the pointers. Shalini who are the
> lead actors in Shikast? I doubt the video is available at my local
> fellow but I shall keep an eye out for it.
> Ritu
"Shikast" = Dilip Kumar and Nalini Jaywant
K. N. Singh was the villain.
Afzal
Sudhir
Talat's solo / Sapno Ki Suhani released on CD / Talat / Rare Gems
is the soundtrack version.
Hambala Dambala
---------------
"Afzal A. Khan" <me_a...@privacy.net> wrote in message
Tadatmya Vaishnav
<snipped>
> I don't know if Nimish is done with uploading Rasikeshu episodes on
> Anil Biswas talking about other composers. If he is then there is an
> interesting observation. Anilda talks about almost all the MDs of the
> golden era. He even includes bit players like Sajjad Hussain and
> Jaidev. The only two people he misses out on are Hemant Kumar and
> Shankar-Jaikishen. Pretty surprising.
>
> Ritu
Perhaps Anil Biswas didn't care enough for HK or SJ? I noticed the
absence of any mention of SJ immediately, and feel that that was Anil
Biswas' way of expressing his opinion of them.
Regards,
Tadatmya.
Ket...@att.net
says...
> Perhaps Anil Biswas didn't care enough for HK or SJ? I noticed the
>absence of any mention of SJ immediately, and feel that that was Anil
>Biswas' way of expressing his opinion of them.
Pure speculation follows:
I wonder if his being dropped as commercially unsound for "Basant Bahar" and
being replaced by S-J has anything to do with his non-remarks on S-J?
Ketan
Sudhir
===========
I am almost 99% certain that in the song: Jaag Dard-e-Ishq Jaag,
the 1st Para:
Aankh Zara Lagi Teri / Hemant
is not there in the film
In the last 20 plus years, when soundtrack versions of older films
have been released, I have never encountered a song, which was
edited in mid-point. All choppings have been done either in the
beginning (generally the two slow opening lines, if any or beginning
music) and at the end (sky is the limit - 4 para song can become
2 para songs)
Can you please torture yourself and watch this song again on your
VCD / Video tape and reconfirm your prior msg. The remark 'torture'
is related to Akbar ji shouting: Anarkali............... at the end of song:
Zamana Yeh Samjha Ki .....
Please also see my other post, addressed to: Mr. Dasgupta - reference
Haathiwala LP
Thanks
Sudhir
---------------------
"Deepak Sabnis" <deepakd...@hp.com> wrote in message >
> It is indeed the first stanzaa in the movie. I have a VCD of Anarkali that I
> bought 3 years ago from Rhythm House in Bombay. Must have watched 5 times in
> last 3 years and still enjoy it.
>
> Cheers...
>
> Deepak
Ritu
Possibly. But since SJ were such high-profile MDs it seems funny that
an exercise to recount film music history would leave them out. He
even includes OPN(who was considered an upstart by a lot of
old-timers).
And even HK's exclusion was baffling because why single him out to
leave aside. His music is way above average and he was also a fellow
bong. Further he had also lent his voice for Anilda's compositions.
Again, if he could include Salil Chowdhury then why not Hemant Kumar?
I would say politically very incorrect.
Regards,
Ritu
Ritu
Was that the only time he was dropped for another MD? I would think
these kind of things were(are) common in the film world.
Ritu
Afzal A. Khan
Sudhir wrote:
>
> Can you please torture yourself and watch this song again on your
> VCD / Video tape and reconfirm your prior msg. The remark 'torture'
> is related to Akbar ji shouting: Anarkali............... at the end of song:
> Zamana Yeh Samjha Ki .....
> Sudhir
Funny you should say that :
Anarkali = "Zamaana yeh samjha ke hum"
Mughal-e-Azam = "Pyaar kiya to Darna kya"
In both instances, the Emperor Saheb patiently listens
till the song is over and then comes out with "Anarkali"
and "DaroGHa-e-zindaaN !". And I recall having a quiet
chuckle over this while watching the two films. Tansen
or no Tansen, the Emperor Saheb did have an ear for music !
Afzal
Prithviraj Dasgupta
For Mr. Sabnis
> ===========
>
> I am almost 99% certain that in the song: Jaag Dard-e-Ishq Jaag,
> the 1st Para:
>
> Aankh Zara Lagi Teri / Hemant
>
> is not there in the film
>
> In the last 20 plus years, when soundtrack versions of older films
> have been released, I have never encountered a song, which was
> edited in mid-point. All choppings have been done either in the
> beginning (generally the two slow opening lines, if any or beginning
> music) and at the end (sky is the limit - 4 para song can become
> 2 para songs)
>
> Can you please torture yourself and watch this song again on your
> VCD / Video tape and reconfirm your prior msg. The remark 'torture'
> is related to Akbar ji shouting: Anarkali............... at the end of song:
> Zamana Yeh Samjha Ki .....
>
>
> Please also see my other post, addressed to: Mr. Dasgupta - reference
> Haathiwala LP
>
Hi Sudhir,
Deepak is indeed correct. These are the 3 versions of the song
I heard:
1) All 3 stanzas with an extended alaap at the beginning by
Hemant and dance music at the end. This version is about 4 min long.
It is there in the movie (DVD/video). This version used to
also come on DD Chitrahaar.
2) All 3 stanzas but alaap by Hemant at the beginning is slightly
chopped, dance music at the end not there. I learnt from
you on this thread that this is the 78 rpm version. It is
also there in the Hathiwala LP. Length 3:11 as mentioned by you.
3) 2 stanzas. Entire alaap by Hemant at the beginning is
chopped. Hemant stanza is chopped. No dance music at the end.
This is the version that appears on HMV LPs, tapes, CD.
(You said it was 3:07 long. I haven't measured the time yet.)
The oldest release of version 3 by HMV I have seen is
on an LP titled: Duets to Remember - Lata/Hemant. I don't
have this LP with me now, but IIRC it was an early 70s
release. It is possible that Anarkali sdtrk LP came out
before this and that record was the first to have version
3 above. AFAIK Anarkali LP had film/sdtrk version of all songs.
So, what puzzled me till now: Why was a version created for
Anarkali LP that was different from the film version and
from the 78 version?
FWIW, this is the track listing of Anarkali LP:
ae baad e saba ahista chal
yeh zindagi usiki hai part 1 and 2
aaja ab to aaja
mujhse mat poochh
dua kar gham e dil
jaag dard e ishq jaag
mohabbat aesi dharkan hai
zindagi pyar do char ghadi
zamana yeh samjha keh ham pee ke aaye
o aasman wale
So, this is my speculation: The record engineer who
was in-charge of the Anarkali LP was not able to fit
all songs on the LP because of the LP's time limitation.
He decided to chop "jaag dard ishq jaag". (Why this
song, I can't explain). Chopping stanza 1 (hemant) and
retaining stanza 2 and 3(Lata) was little more work than
retaining stanza 1 and 2 and chopping stanza 3 - the last
one, but probably sounded more free-flowing
to him or his supervisors (or maybe they were Lata bhakts:)).
So they decided to go with the former option and that's how
the record ended up with the version 3 of the song above.
-Prithviraj
PS: Another similar enigma to me is "zindagi pyar ki do
chaar ghadi". It seems to have 3 versions: i)film version
appearing as 2 separate parts in the movie, ii)78 version
with certain lines being repeated by Hemant, that are
not in version i) and ii), and iii) Anarakali LP version
(I have this on Anarkali sdtrk tape bought in 1985) without
repetitions in ii), and has 2 separate parts of i) back
to back with a flute interlude in the middle that is not in
i) or ii).
Prithviraj Dasgupta
> >
> > S Mohinder: duet with Lata "aa aajaa aajaa o jaanevafaa",
>
> Isn't it Geeta Dutt? Or am I confusing it with a Hemant-Geeta tandem.
It is Hemant-Lata. Hope you are not confusing with
Geeta song from Anarkali with a similar starting line.
> Again Salil-Hemant IMO, could not really recreate their bangla magic
> in Hindi. Salil also gave a large number of those songs to Mukesh in
> Hindi. I find the same thing with Hemant-Geeta in Hindi. The chemistry
> one sees in their bangla output is more or less missing in their Hindi
> work.
One possible reason for your finding the chemistry missing might
be that Hindi was not the native language for either of them.
If possible, check out the Hemant-Geeta duet "jadu bhara
oi banshi" from the film "Sathi haaraa" and its
Hindi counterpart by Rafi-Arti "saaraa moraa kajaraa" from
Do Dil. I find the Bengali version to be much more appealing.
Other Hemant MD-ed Hemant-Geeta songs with multilingual versions
that I know of are:
"tume je amar"/Geeta/Harano Sur
and
"chale ham kahaa.N"/Hemant-Geeta/Police;
"ei raat holo kato sundar"/Geeta/Swaralipi
and
"paa kar bhi tumhen"/Hemant/Non-film;
"alir katha shune"/Hemant/Non-film
and
"na jaao saiyan"/Geeta/SBG.
Flip side on 78 of the last Bengali song is "ami dur hote"/Hemant/Non-film
which has a Hindi counter part "meri baat rahi"/Asha/SBG.
-Prithviraj
Prithviraj Dasgupta
Indian CDs made in the early-mid 90s rarely have the same audio
range as the LP from which they have been mastered. Part of the
reason is sloppy re-mastering. Another reason could be a source
(LP) with not a very good quality. Nowadays with soundforge and
similar audio processing software tools, remastering has got a
little better. This CD was made in 1995 and its no way as good as
the LP. The bass is missing partly, as you say. But its still
listenable.
-Prithviraj
Surma Bhopali
> "Arun Iyengar" <arun_iy...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<c4kfak$a...@netnews.proxy.lucent.com>...
> >
> > Salilda: "ga.ngaa aaye kahaa.N se", Lata duet "halake halake chalo
> > saa.Nvare", Geeta duet "ho jab se milii tose akhiyaa.N" (Tune similar to
> > Bhupen Hazarika's maulaa maulaa in Rudaali),
>
> Again Salil-Hemant IMO, could not really recreate their bangla magic
> in Hindi. Salil also gave a large number of those songs to Mukesh in
> Hindi. I find the same thing with Hemant-Geeta in Hindi. The chemistry
> one sees in their bangla output is more or less missing in their Hindi
> work.
>
gaaner swaralipi" his disappointment for not getting to sing those
Salil gems in Hindi. I remember him mentioning the song "kahii.n duur
jab din"("aamaay prashna kare").
V S Rawat
or/and, an eye for dance. :)
-------------
btw, I find that in Mughal-e-Azam of the great Naushad, the
built up of the emperor's anger had been shown duly progressing.
The kaneez did transcend her limits and intentionally did
everything to provoke the emperor. Not just the lyrics or
the dance, her taking out the kha.njar from saaheb-e-aalam
and then presenting it to the emperor, that too daring him
to use it on her, could itself be one single reason for
which she had made worthy of getting beheaded sar-e-mehfil
then and there.
I had read somewhere about Kamal Amrohi and other dialogue
writers of Mughal-e-azam that they did not take care of
baadshaahi protocols in the film. The Kaneez was shown as
matching sentence for sentence and word for word of emperor
which must have been impossible in the real scenario. Recall
that akbar anarkali interaction
"hame.n yaqiin hai qaidkhaane ke a.ndhero.n ne terii
aarazu_o.n me.n wo chamak baaqii na rakhii hogii jo kabhii
thii."
"qaidkhaane ke a.ndhere kaneez kii aarazu_o.n se kam the".
"a.ndhere aur ba.Dhaa diye jaaye.nge."
"aarazu_e.n aur ba.Dh jaaye.ngii."
(not verbatim.)
no kaneez could have spoken this much to akbar.
----------
In the song itself, The Kaneez did not remember her limits.
It was merciful of the emperor to imprison her, not behead her.
She should have heeded to the warning given before the song
"hosh-o-khirad pesh-e-baadashaah rahe" and the film might
have had a happier end.
-rawat
>
> Afzal
Tadatmya Vaishnav
> an exercise to recount film music history would leave them out. He
> even includes OPN(who was considered an upstart by a lot of
> old-timers).
>
> And even HK's exclusion was baffling because why single him out to
> leave aside. His music is way above average and he was also a fellow
> bong. Further he had also lent his voice for Anilda's compositions.
> Again, if he could include Salil Chowdhury then why not Hemant Kumar?
>
> I would say politically very incorrect.
But from what I have heard and read about him, I wouldn't bet that
political correctness would be high on his priority list. He recounted
history of Hindi film music as *he* saw it, and he wasn't compiling a series
that could serve as a complete reference. Ultimately, whatever he says is
his opinion only. Again note that though he doesn't speak anything bad about
people whose abilities he didn't think much of (like Rafi), he doesn't
praise them either.
And about Salil C. vs. HK, I would guess Salil Chowdhury was
different enough to deserve a special mention, and his being Bong wouldn't
have made much of a difference here.
> Regards,
> Ritu
Regards,
Tadatmya.
Sudhir
Adding some small correction and notes, below your write-up
Sudhir
------------------------
prith...@yahoo.com (Prithviraj Dasgupta) wrote in message > Hi Sudhir,
>
> Deepak is indeed correct. These are the 3 versions of the song
> I heard:
>
> 1) All 3 stanzas with an extended alaap at the beginning by
> Hemant and dance music at the end. This version is about 4 min long.
> It is there in the movie (DVD/video). This version used to
> also come on DD Chitrahaar.
> 2) All 3 stanzas but alaap by Hemant at the beginning is slightly
> chopped, dance music at the end not there. I learnt from
> you on this thread that this is the 78 rpm version. It is
> also there in the Hathiwala LP. Length 3:11 as mentioned by you.
> 3) 2 stanzas. Entire alaap by Hemant at the beginning is
> chopped. Hemant stanza is chopped. No dance music at the end.
> This is the version that appears on HMV LPs, tapes, CD.
> (You said it was 3:07 long. I haven't measured the time yet.)
> by Sudhir: Please note that the duration measurement can vary,
because Cassette Deck's transport speed change
with useage. 1 to 2% difference is quite common.
> The oldest release of version 3 by HMV I have seen is
> on an LP titled: Duets to Remember - Lata/Hemant. I don't
> have this LP with me now, but IIRC it was an early 70s
> release. It is possible that Anarkali sdtrk LP came out
> before this and that record was the first to have version
> 3 above. AFAIK Anarkali LP had film/sdtrk version of all songs.
> So, what puzzled me till now: Why was a version created for
> Anarkali LP that was different from the film version and
> from the 78 version?
by Sudhir: ANARKALI LP was released in 1974
Lata + Hemant LP / # ECLP 5889 was released in 1983
>
> FWIW, this is the track listing of Anarkali LP:
>
> ae baad e saba ahista chal
> yeh zindagi usiki hai part 1 and 2
by Sudhir: This song is as two tracks
Side A: = Part 1 (happy)
> aaja ab to aaja
> mujhse mat poochh
> dua kar gham e dil
> jaag dard e ishq jaag
> mohabbat aesi dharkan hai
> zindagi pyar do char ghadi
> zamana yeh samjha keh ham pee ke aaye
> o aasman wale
by Sudhir: Add track: Yeh Zindagi Uski Ki, Part II (sad)
>
> So, this is my speculation: The record engineer who
> was in-charge of the Anarkali LP was not able to fit
> all songs on the LP because of the LP's time limitation.
> He decided to chop "jaag dard ishq jaag". (Why this
> song, I can't explain). Chopping stanza 1 (hemant) and
> retaining stanza 2 and 3(Lata) was little more work than
> retaining stanza 1 and 2 and chopping stanza 3 - the last
> one, but probably sounded more free-flowing
> to him or his supervisors (or maybe they were Lata bhakts:)).
> So they decided to go with the former option and that's how
> the record ended up with the version 3 of the song above.
by Sudhir: Yes, that is what happened. I haven't seen this
type of editing in any other song
>
> -Prithviraj
>
> PS: Another similar enigma to me is "zindagi pyar ki do
> chaar ghadi". It seems to have 3 versions: i)film version
> appearing as 2 separate parts in the movie, ii)78 version
> with certain lines being repeated by Hemant, that are
> not in version i) and ii), and iii) Anarakali LP version
> (I have this on Anarkali sdtrk tape bought in 1985) without
> repetitions in ii), and has 2 separate parts of i) back
> to back with a flute interlude in the middle that is not in
> i) or ii).
by Sudhir: I have this song on Hemant's LP / Great Hits of
/ 3AEX 5271 / 78 rpm / P: 1970 - earlier than
LP / Film
The Film LP (soundtrack) is only 2:07 minutes long
Since I don't have Video of this film, so can not add any feed-back
It seems, I will will have to find the Haathi.
Prithviraj Dasgupta
(Prithviraj wrote:
> > PS: Another similar enigma to me is "zindagi pyar ki do
> > chaar ghadi". It seems to have 3 versions: i)film version
> > appearing as 2 separate parts in the movie, ii)78 version
> > with certain lines being repeated by Hemant, that are
> > not in version i) and ii), and iii) Anarakali LP version
> > (I have this on Anarkali sdtrk tape bought in 1985) without
> > repetitions in ii), and has 2 separate parts of i) back
> > to back with a flute interlude in the middle that is not in
> > i) or ii).
>
>
>
> by Sudhir: I have this song on Hemant's LP / Great Hits of
> / 3AEX 5271 / 78 rpm / P: 1970 - earlier than
> LP / Film
>
> The Film LP (soundtrack) is only 2:07 minutes long
>
> Since I don't have Video of this film, so can not add any feed-back
>
> It seems, I will will have to find the Haathi.
This song is not on Hathiwala LP.
I have it on i) the LP mentioned above (3AEX 5271)
ii) on Anarkali sdtrk tape (shorter version, possibly 2:07 mins
as you said) and iii) recorded from DVD of movie - two
stanzas are two separate pieces. Will send you iii) via
email.
-Prithviraj
Deepak Sabnis
FILMI)" CDNF 132173.
The recording quality is not to my liking. HMV had published a tape too
(don't remember the title). I have both. I like the tape quality more than
the one on the CD. If you can not find it in store, let me know.
Deepak
"Ritu" <rc0...@rediffmail.com> wrote in message
news:8777cccd.04040...@posting.google.com...
V S Rawat
> I find the Bengali version to be much more appealing.
Are there songs in which you like hindi version over bengali
version?
-rawat
Prithviraj Dasgupta
Most RDB MD-ed songs. Some SalilC songs; top off the head
e.g: milaa hai kisii kaa jhumakaa, baag me kalii khilii.
Hemant MD: na jaane ye chandaa(Champakali). There
are some Marathi Hridaynath MD-ed songs that I like
more than their Bengali(or Hindi) counterpart, e.g:
hii vaaT duur jaat(Asha), mogara phulala(Lata),
kaajal raatina(Lata). How about you? It would
be interesting to hear from a native Hindi speaker
like you if you have any preferences for non-Hindi
songs over Hindi ones.
V S Rawat
> V S Rawat <VSR...@datainfosys.net> wrote in message news:<40735DDC...@datainfosys.net>...
>
>>Prithviraj Dasgupta wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I find the Bengali version to be much more appealing.
>>
>>Are there songs in which you like hindi version over bengali
>>version?
>>
>>-rawat
>
>
> Most RDB MD-ed songs. Some SalilC songs; top off the head
> e.g: milaa hai kisii kaa jhumakaa, baag me kalii khilii.
> Hemant MD: na jaane ye chandaa(Champakali). There
> are some Marathi Hridaynath MD-ed songs that I like
> more than their Bengali(or Hindi) counterpart, e.g:
> hii vaaT duur jaat(Asha), mogara phulala(Lata),
> kaajal raatina(Lata).
In these and other such songs, do you find that the MD had
done some improvisation while re-composing the song in
hindi, which was not there in bengali?
It shall be interesting to know about some specific
instances, like some piece of music which you find more
lovely in hindi version. I might not have heard Bengali
version, still I can listen that part more carefully.
But, in all such cases, when someone hears the re-composed
song for the first time, it must be sounding to have some
discontinuity at the place of improvisation, because one
must have byheartened the original song. Remixes of old gems
sound peculiar due to that reason. It takes some efforts to
listen to recomposed song for some no. of times to
internalize the improvisations.
> How about you? It would
> be interesting to hear from a native Hindi speaker
> like you if you have any preferences for non-Hindi
> songs over Hindi ones.
that is a drawback for hindi speakers that they not knowing
any other language, chances of them coming to hear different
version becomes very less.
but, I like ARR chandralekha more in tamil version than in
hindi.
-rawat
V S Rawat
> But from what I have heard and read about him, I wouldn't
> bet that political correctness would be high on his
> priority list. He recounted history of Hindi film music
> as *he* saw it, and he wasn't compiling a series that
> could serve as a complete reference. Ultimately, whatever
> he says is his opinion only. Again note that though he
> doesn't speak anything bad about people whose abilities
> he didn't think much of (like Rafi), he doesn't praise
> them either. And about Salil C. vs. HK, I would guess
> Salil Chowdhury was different enough to deserve a special
> mention, and his being Bong wouldn't have made much of a
> difference here.
When people grow beyond a certain stature, they are supposed
to transcend any petty personal equations, and tell the
story as truthfully as possible, because the world take
whatever a great person is saying, as a gospel truth.
Maybe AB could not reach that level.
-------------
In this area, all praises to the great Naushad. He loves to
talk about anybody and everybody in a most humble manner,
irrespective of his personal equations. Though, he often
takes some freedom to proclaim that he did everything first.
------------
Currently, vividh bharati is broadcasting a serial
Nayyarnaamaa in Ujaale Unki Yadon Ke at 4:00 PM every
sunday. It has already been more than three months into it.
Yet, it is not juicy, inflammatory stuff. He simply recounts
his memories. Listening to it, it becomes impossible to
believe stories that Lata never sang for him because he used
abusive languages in their first recording.
--------------
In any case, AB's ommissions are much more acceptable than
people mentioning negative things about someone. Nadira is
one such personality who loves to say negative things about
people.
In a recent program on vividh Bharatii she expressed her
displeasure with Kamal Amrohi on taking Veena instead of her
in the climax scene of Pakeezah (that "Shahabuddin, aa_o
dekho....") claiming that she would have set the screen
afire if she had performed that scene. Personally I did not
find anything lacking in Veena's performance there. I felt
she rather carried a dignity that Nadira could not have
carried in the dialogue and facial expressions.
-rawat
Surma Bhopali
[Warning: long post]
A tune is like soul(or skeleton) of a song. But however important the
soul may be, it has no value until it gets its flesh to make a living
body. The same goes with a song. A tune has no language, but a song
does. In a number of occasions one tune has been used for 2 songs in
different languages, the most common pair being Hindi and Bengali.
This is because a lot of MDs of the golden era HFM had their origin in
Bengali music – Anil Biswas, Salil Choudhari, SD Burman, Hemant – to
name the common ones. An obvious question regarding these pairs of
songs that bothered me for ages is: How does one song rate compared to
its other language sibling? Is the original one(song created first)
always better? Or the later one more mature? Does singer's language
skills matter? Or lyrics? I tried to explore some song pairs which are
relatively popular in both the languages.
What I found is there is no straightforward answer to these questions.
There is a wide spectrum from… both the songs matching each other in
terms of quality to… one song sounding absolutely rubbish while the
other is a gem. I start with an example of the latter type.
[disclaimers like IMO, AFAIK, IIRC,…. go here]
Hindi: ye ghu.ngharuu, ghu.ngharuu mai.nne baa.ndhe to the [Salil /
Asha / Jeevan Jyoti]
Bengali: o mor moynaa go [Salil / Lata]
I couldn't find a pair with greater contrast than this. While Lata's
Bengali song is one of my all time favourites, I will be happy to
forget the Hindi version as a Salil song.
In the next pair from Salil again the contrast is there though not as
pronounced as the previous example. It's turn for a Bengali song to
look bad.
Hindi: dil ta.Dap ta.Dap ke kah rahaa hai aa bhi jaa [Salil /
Mukesh-Lata / Madhumati]
Bengali: jadi naa aashte bhaalo baashte [Salil / Suresh-Lata]
The same goes for this yet another Salil pair.
Hindi: mai.nne tere liye hii saat ra.ng ke sapane chune [Salil /
Mukesh / Anand]
Bengali: shudhu tomaari janye sur taal diye [Salil / Suresh-??]
From all the examples above it may look like the song that came first
is better. But what about this pair where the Hindi and Bengali films
were released simultaneously IIRC:
Hindi: saaraa pyaar tumhaaraa mai.nne baa.ndh liyaa hai aa.Nchal me.n
[Shyamal Mitra / Kishore-Lata / Anandmath]
Bengali: aamaar swapna tumi ogo chirodiner saathii [Shyamal Mitra /
Kishore-Lata / Anandmath]
Here the Bengali version doesn't quite appeal as much as the Hindi
song does. In Hemant's following two songs, the Bengali songs
definitely sound better than the later Hindi versions:
Hindi: ye nayan Dare Dare [Hemant / Hemant / Khamoshi]
Bengali: ei raat tomaar aamaar [Hemant / Hemant / Deep Jele Jai]
Hindi: o beqaraar dil [Hemant / Lata ]
Bengali: o nadi re [Hemant / Hemant]
One important type of ‘flesh' is the lyrics – how seamlessly it fits
into the tune. That could be the reason why the Bengali song (written
by Salil himself) below feels much much sweeter than the Hindi one:
Hindi: aahaa rimjhim ke ye pyaare pyaare giit liye [Salil / Talat]
Bengali: aahaa oi aa.Nkaa baa.Nkaa je path jaay suduure [Salil /
Shyamal]
But what about this pair where the Hindi song steals the show despite
similarity of lyrics:
Hindi: jaa re jaa re u.Da jaa re pa.nchii [Salil / Lata / Maya]
Bengali: jaa re jaa re u.De jaa re paakhii [Salil / Lata]
The Hindi song beats the Bengali song in this Salil/Lata pair too IMO:
Hindi: naa jiyaa laage naa [Salil / Lata / Anand]
Bengali: naa bhaalo laage naa [Salil / Lata]
For the songs listed below this line, the contrast is much less, as in
this SDB pair. Neeraj shows here why lyrics is important.
Hindi: phuulo.n ke ra.ng se dil kii kalam se [SDB / Kishore / Prem
Pujari]
Bengali: chha.nde giitiite [SDB / SDB]
The Hindi song though composed later appears to have a slight edge
here:
Hindi: ka_ii baar yuu.N hii dekhaa hai [Salil / Mukesh / Rajnigandha]
Bengali: aami chalte chalte theme gechhi [Salil / Pintu]
The gap in song quality from this point onwards is even less. The
songs below differ slightly though I still prefer the Bengali ones to
the Hindi versions in the following 3 pairs.
Hindi: merii bhiigii bhiigii sii [RDB / Kishore / Anamika]
Bengali: mane pare ##Ruby Ray## [RDB / RDB]
Pancham's voice sounds so different in Hindi. I think he deliberately
moulded his voice while rendering most Hindi songs like "mahabuubaa
mahabuubaa" or "dhanno kii aa.Nkho.n" to suit character roles.
Hindi: tum bin jaauu.N kahaa.N [RDB / Kishore, Rafi / Pyar Ka Mausam]
Bengali: ek din pakhii u.De [RDB / Kishore]
Hindi: khaa_ii hai re hamane qasam [SDB / Lata / Talash]
Bengali: shono go dakhin haawaa [SDB / SDB]
SDB's voice here suits the mood so well, I am compelled to rate the
Lata version low.
RDB has managed to extract comparable success in both the versions
mostly. For example, listen to these equally rated songs [IMO of
course, others may find one better than the other as we have come near
the end of the list ordered by declining contrast].
Hindi: ye kyaa huaa kaise huaa [RDB / Kishore / Amar Prem]
Bengali: e kii holo keno holo [RDB / Kishore]
To conclude, even after listening for more than 2 decades, I still
cannot decide which of the following two is better:
Hindi: kahii.N duur jab din Dhal jaaye [Salil / Mukesh / Anand]
Bengali: aamaay prashna kare niil dhrubataaraa [Salil / Hemant]
nor among these two:
Hindi: ham bekhudii me.n tum ko pukaare chale gaye [SDB / Rafi / Kala
Pani]
Bengali: ghum bhulechhi nijhum e nishithe jege thaaki [SDB / SDB]
Please help!
Tadatmya Vaishnav
"Surma Bhopali" <nanhaf...@yahoo.co.in> wrote in message
news:622ae881.04040...@posting.google.com...
>
> Hindi: saaraa pyaar tumhaaraa mai.nne baa.ndh liyaa hai aa.Nchal me.n
> [Shyamal Mitra / Kishore-Lata / Anandmath]
> Bengali: aamaar swapna tumi ogo chirodiner saathii [Shyamal Mitra /
> Kishore-Lata / Anandmath]
The Hindi version was by Kishore-Asha.
> Hindi: ham bekhudii me.n tum ko pukaare chale gaye [SDB / Rafi / Kala
> Pani]
> Bengali: ghum bhulechhi nijhum e nishithe jege thaaki [SDB / SDB]
Did the SDB version come first in this case? If yes, Majrooh seems to
have done a great job in writing the lyrics, with the mukha.Daa sounding
quite similar in both languages.
Regards,
Tadatmya.
Tadatmya Vaishnav
>
> "Surma Bhopali" <nanhaf...@yahoo.co.in> wrote in message
> news:622ae881.04040...@posting.google.com...
> >
> > Hindi: saaraa pyaar tumhaaraa mai.nne baa.ndh liyaa hai aa.Nchal me.n
> > [Shyamal Mitra / Kishore-Lata / Anandmath]
> > Bengali: aamaar swapna tumi ogo chirodiner saathii [Shyamal Mitra /
> > Kishore-Lata / Anandmath]
>
> The Hindi version was by Kishore-Asha.
Sorry to follow up on my own post...but forgot to mention that the film
is 'Anand ashram' and not 'Anandmath'.
-Tadatmya.
UVR
>
> The Hindi song beats the Bengali song in this Salil/Lata pair too IMO:
>
> Hindi: naa jiyaa laage naa [Salil / Lata / Anand]
> Bengali: naa bhaalo laage naa [Salil / Lata]
I agree completely here. I only very recently [re]heard the
Bengali version. Which song came first, chronologically?
I think the Hindi version has a few subtle differences. One,
specifically, that struck me was that the initial extended
portion of these two phrases is a lot more elongated in the
Hindi version than in the Bengali version.
. zindagii ... zindagii tere binaa haay bhaaye naa, naa
. wo gha.Dii ... wo gha.Dii vahii.n rahe, naa jaaye, naa, naa
I also remember thinking that the accompanying music in the
Hindi version was a bit better 'rounded' than in the Bengali
version.
-UVR.
Surma Bhopali
> > "Surma Bhopali" <nanhaf...@yahoo.co.in> wrote in message
> > news:622ae881.04040...@posting.google.com...
> > >
> > > Hindi: saaraa pyaar tumhaaraa mai.nne baa.ndh liyaa hai aa.Nchal me.n
> > > [Shyamal Mitra / Kishore-Lata / Anandmath]
> > > Bengali: aamaar swapna tumi ogo chirodiner saathii [Shyamal Mitra /
> > > Kishore-Lata / Anandmath]
> >
> > The Hindi version was by Kishore-Asha.
>
> Sorry to follow up on my own post...but forgot to mention that the film
> is 'Anand ashram' and not 'Anandmath'.
>
> -Tadatmya.
You are right. My bad.
Ritu
> Tadatmya Vaishnav wrote:
>
> > But from what I have heard and read about him, I wouldn't
> > bet that political correctness would be high on his
> > priority list. He recounted history of Hindi film music
> > as *he* saw it, and he wasn't compiling a series that
> > could serve as a complete reference. Ultimately, whatever
> > he says is his opinion only. Again note that though he
> > doesn't speak anything bad about people whose abilities
> > he didn't think much of (like Rafi), he doesn't praise
> > them either. And about Salil C. vs. HK, I would guess
> > Salil Chowdhury was different enough to deserve a special
> > mention, and his being Bong wouldn't have made much of a
> > difference here.
I know what you say (Tadatmya). Hemant Kumar's music was very close to
Anil Da's in terms of inspiration. I guess he had nothing to say. Also
Hemant Kumar was always a fringe player in HFM. But I was just
wondering why he chose to only leave him out. It's too glaring an
ommision. He mentions nearly every other known composer of those
times. Wonder if he had some problem with Hemantda.
> In this area, all praises to the great Naushad. He loves to
> talk about anybody and everybody in a most humble manner,
> irrespective of his personal equations.
The 'Great Naushad' I believe, recently made disparaging remarks
against RDB in the 'most humble manner' :). (check the Pancham group
archives). He said something to the effect that RDB was responsible
for the decline in HFM and even Burman Saab(Senior) would tell Naushad
to knock some sense into his son. So the 'Great Naushad' is not
without biases. For that matter of fact neither is the 'Great
SDB'(remember the doggy remark)
And he(Great Naushad) has made enough statements about overt western
influence, banning synthesizers etc. etc. in public over the years.
> ------------
> Currently, vividh bharati is broadcasting a serial
> Nayyarnaamaa in Ujaale Unki Yadon Ke at 4:00 PM every
> sunday. It has already been more than three months into it.
>
> --------------
You would do a great favour if you could record these for us and make
them available over the internet.
> afire if she had performed that scene. Personally I did not
> find anything lacking in Veena's performance there. I felt
> she rather carried a dignity that Nadira could not have
> carried in the dialogue and facial expressions.
Agreed! Veena seemed to have been tailor-made for those roles. Her
face had a regal bearing. But on second thoughts, since the role was
that of a prostitute and not a queen, dignity might not be the main
requirement. By that yardstick, Nadira might have been more realistic.
-Ritu
V S Rawat
> Surma Bhopali wrote:
>
>>
>> The Hindi song beats the Bengali song in this
>> Salil/Lata pair too IMO:
>>
>> Hindi: naa jiyaa laage naa [Salil / Lata / Anand]
>> Bengali: naa bhaalo laage naa [Salil / Lata]
>
>
> I agree completely here. I only very recently [re]heard
> the Bengali version. Which song came first,
> chronologically? I think the Hindi version has a few
> subtle differences. One, specifically, that struck me
> was that the initial extended portion of these two
> phrases is a lot more elongated in the Hindi version than
> in the Bengali version.
>
> .. wo gha.Dii ... wo gha.Dii vahii.n rahe, naa jaaye,
> naa, naa
>
> I also remember thinking that the accompanying music in
> the Hindi version was a bit better 'rounded' than in the
> Bengali version.
>
> -UVR.
Are lyrics in both versions by Gulzar, and are these word to
word translation?
If not, who did bengali lyrics and what were the bengali
equivalent of:
jiinaa bhuule the kahaa.N yaad nahii.n
tumako paayaa hai jahaa.N saa.Ns phir aa_ii wahii.n
Please, also mention the word for word translation of any
different bengali words in that version.
What a gem.
-Rawat
Afzal A. Khan
UVR wrote:
> I also remember thinking that the accompanying music in the
> Hindi version was a bit better 'rounded' than in the Bengali
> version.
>
> -UVR.
In other words, the accompanying Hindi version
music was just like the original Bengali version
lyrics --- "better rounded" !
Afzal
V S Rawat
> V S Rawat <VSR...@datainfosys.net> wrote in message news:<40744CD1...@datainfosys.net>...
>
>
>>talk about anybody and everybody in a most humble manner,
>>irrespective of his personal equations.
>
>
> The 'Great Naushad' I believe, recently made disparaging remarks
> against RDB in the 'most humble manner' :). (check the Pancham group
> archives). He said something to the effect that RDB was responsible
> for the decline in HFM and even Burman Saab(Senior) would tell Naushad
> to knock some sense into his son.
In this, he was quoting someone, so it was not his own
badmouthing it.
btw, if you could dig that post out of your archives, why
not save us trouble of online reference. Please post the
relevant parts.
I did not find statement that "Mr X is responsible for
effect Y" a badmouthing. If it had been so, probably entire
RMIM is a place full of such badmouthings.
> So the 'Great Naushad' is not
> without biases. For that matter of fact neither is the 'Great
> SDB'(remember the doggy remark)
no. I did not find doggy remark in bad taste. It was just
that he was using some out of the way simile to express his
feelings.
In any case that statement was not against any person or
RDB, that was more for the style of song.
> And he(Great Naushad) has made enough statements about overt western
> influence, banning synthesizers etc. etc. in public over the years.
>
When the Great Naushad appreciated ARR, you can take that as
his retraction of all those statements. :)
>
>
>>------------
:) btw, you forgot to prefix "The" with 'Great Naushad' all
the time. :)
no. no. no. The "The" should be within quotes as in "The
Great Naushad".
>>Currently, vividh bharati is broadcasting a serial
>>Nayyarnaamaa in Ujaale Unki Yadon Ke at 4:00 PM every
>>sunday. It has already been more than three months into it.
>>
>>--------------
>
>
> You would do a great favour if you could record these for us and make
> them available over the internet.
>
now you are telling me. OK. This sunday I am busy. Next
Sunday onwards, I will do it.
>>afire if she had performed that scene. Personally I did not
>>find anything lacking in Veena's performance there. I felt
>>she rather carried a dignity that Nadira could not have
>>carried in the dialogue and facial expressions.
>
>
> Agreed! Veena seemed to have been tailor-made for those roles. Her
> face had a regal bearing.
Exactly.
> But on second thoughts, since the role was
> that of a prostitute and not a queen, dignity might not be the main
> requirement. By that yardstick, Nadira might have been more realistic.
>
> -Ritu
A lady is saying this? What the earth has come to!
-------------
You mean a prostitute is supposed to look undignified
meaning cheap, etc.
You probably missed the entire message of the film. A woman
destined to become a prostitute became honourable wife/ bahu
of a dignified khandaan in it.
-Rawat
Surjit Singh
>
>
> Agreed! Veena seemed to have been tailor-made for those roles. Her
> face had a regal bearing. But on second thoughts, since the role was
I didn't like her teeth.
> that of a prostitute and not a queen, dignity might not be the main
> requirement. By that yardstick, Nadira might have been more realistic.
>
> -Ritu
--
Surjit Singh, a diehard movie fan(atic), period.
Visit my home page at
http://hindi-movies-songs.com/index.html
Prithviraj Dasgupta
> Surma Bhopali wrote:
> >
> > The Hindi song beats the Bengali song in this Salil/Lata pair too IMO:
> >
> > Hindi: naa jiyaa laage naa [Salil / Lata / Anand]
> > Bengali: naa bhaalo laage naa [Salil / Lata]
naa man laage naa, right? "bhalo lage naa" is line #4.
>
> I agree completely here. I only very recently [re]heard the
> Bengali version. Which song came first, chronologically?
(snipped)
"naa man laage naa" is a 1969 release. Same year as RDB's
"Ruby Roy" and Hemant-Salil's "aamaay proshno kore"(Hindi=
kahin duur jab) and KK's "ekdin pakhi ure"(Hindi=tum bin
jaun kahan)/flip side="se to elo naa". In fact, 1969 was a
great resurgence year for Puja (Durga) record sales for HMV;
this was the first year when the songs came out on 45 rpms
instead of 78; SDB sang a non-film Bengali song after about
10 years. If you look at the Puja-sangiit record catalog of
1969 almost every song released that year is a hit.
Coming back to the song, I like the Bengali version better
mainly because of Salil's lyrics. He compares man[jiyaa]
to a river, talks about trying to cross that river to
meet ever-present "tum", and then towards the end has
a wonderful play of words "ki habe aar michhe micche beye beye
ei michhe nao" to convey the futility of his attempts
to cross the river.
-Prithviraj
Afzal A. Khan
Surjit Singh wrote:
>
> Ritu wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Agreed! Veena seemed to have been tailor-made for those roles. Her
> > face had a regal bearing. But on second thoughts, since the role was
>
> I didn't like her teeth.
As if Nadira's were much better !
BTW, can we have a thread as to who among our
leading ladies had the best teeth ? Probably,
Jayaprada would be amongst the first three.
Afzal
Ritu
> V S Rawat wrote:
> > Prithviraj Dasgupta wrote:
> >
> > > I find the Bengali version to be much more appealing.
> >
> > Are there songs in which you like hindi version over bengali
> > version?
> ----------------------------------------------
> [Warning: long post]
Fascinating topic! This is a comparison that I end up making quite
often myself. While there are no hard and fast rules, my belief is
that the song that was made first is better most of them times (esp.
if the lyrcist is good). The second version has a chance of being
better if the tune is improvised a little to fit the needs of the new
language. Then the choice of singer makes a difference too. With Salil
Chowdhury, I see that his tunes do not change much in between
languages (even though the orchestration does). More often than not
his Bengali original is much better than the corrosponding Hindi
version. (though you have a couple of examples of the opposite case
which I need to check out). Salil Chowdhury, at times keeps the
ochestration also just the same. It's no wonder then that the original
song will appeal.
With Hemant Kumar I find a 50-50 case. Some Hindi songs are better and
sometimes the bangla song is better. With SDB, (given my weakness for
his voice), the bangla songs are in a class by themselves, but by and
large they are radically different from the Hindi counterparts in
presentation. Even the tunes not entirely the same in both versions.
>
> What I found is there is no straightforward answer to these questions.
> There is a wide spectrum from? both the songs matching each other in
> terms of quality to? one song sounding absolutely rubbish while the
> other is a gem. I start with an example of the latter type.
> [disclaimers like IMO, AFAIK, IIRC,?. go here]
>
> Hindi: ye ghu.ngharuu, ghu.ngharuu mai.nne baa.ndhe to the [Salil /
> Asha / Jeevan Jyoti]
> Bengali: o mor moynaa go [Salil / Lata]
>
> I couldn't find a pair with greater contrast than this. While Lata's
> Bengali song is one of my all time favourites, I will be happy to
> forget the Hindi version as a Salil song.
I think an example to parallel the one above would be
Dhitang Dhitang Bole (Salil/Hemant)
The Bengali version is a outright winner whilst the Hindi version has
deservedly sunk without a trace.
Another one is
Banshi Keno Gaye/ Salil-Lata
The Hindi version is not in the same class.
>
> From all the examples above it may look like the song that came first
> is better. But what about this pair where the Hindi and Bengali films
> were released simultaneously IIRC:
>
> Hindi: saaraa pyaar tumhaaraa mai.nne baa.ndh liyaa hai aa.Nchal me.n
> [Shyamal Mitra / Kishore-Lata / Anandmath]
> Bengali: aamaar swapna tumi ogo chirodiner saathii [Shyamal Mitra /
> Kishore-Lata / Anandmath]
I found both the Hindi and Bengali version almost the same. I prefer
the Hindi version because I understand the language. But by and large
the tune, orchestration, singing and basic flow of the song do not
change much.
>
> Here the Bengali version doesn't quite appeal as much as the Hindi
> song does. In Hemant's following two songs, the Bengali songs
> definitely sound better than the later Hindi versions:
>
> Hindi: ye nayan Dare Dare [Hemant / Hemant / Khamoshi]
> Bengali: ei raat tomaar aamaar [Hemant / Hemant / Deep Jele Jai]
I prefer 'Yeh nayan dare dare'
>
> Hindi: o beqaraar dil [Hemant / Lata ]
> Bengali: o nadi re [Hemant / Hemant]
I agree. Hemant's voice and rendition (the bhatiyali style) suit the
tune and composition much more than Lata's voice. I don't care much
for the Hindi version.
Between 'Ammaye prashan kare' and 'Kahin door jab din dhal jaaye' I
prefer Mukesh's version. The warmth and timbre in Mukesh's voice along
with an inherent pathos make this song special. Hemant's version is
just OK.
>
> One important type of ?flesh' is the lyrics ? how seamlessly it fits
> into the tune. That could be the reason why the Bengali song (written
> by Salil himself) below feels much much sweeter than the Hindi one:
>
> Hindi: aahaa rimjhim ke ye pyaare pyaare giit liye [Salil / Talat]
> Bengali: aahaa oi aa.Nkaa baa.Nkaa je path jaay suduure [Salil /
> Shyamal]
>
Very true :). I like the sound of the words in the Bengali version.
They are very bright. Though the Hindi version is also nice
>
> For the songs listed below this line, the contrast is much less, as in
> this SDB pair. Neeraj shows here why lyrics is important.
>
> Hindi: phuulo.n ke ra.ng se dil kii kalam se [SDB / Kishore / Prem
> Pujari]
> Bengali: chha.nde giitiite [SDB / SDB]
I think this is one of those rare songs where SDB's original in bangla
is surpassed completely in the Hindi version. I feel the Hindi version
is far superior to the Bangla version. Ofcourse Neeraj's lyrics play
an important role but more than that it's Kishore's rendition. The
soft romantic mood that Kishore gives to the song elevates this song
to one of the all time greatest romantic songs (IMO). SDB did not
really have a voice to portray romance.
>
> Hindi: merii bhiigii bhiigii sii [RDB / Kishore / Anamika]
> Bengali: mane pare ##Ruby Ray## [RDB / RDB]
I prefer 'Mone Pore Ruby Ray' much more to 'Meri Bheegi Bheegi si'.
There was something unusual in Pancham's voice that adds a unique
energy to the song. I find the Hindi version one more of those
overrated Kishore-RDB songs :)
> Hindi: khaa_ii hai re hamane qasam [SDB / Lata / Talash]
> Bengali: shono go dakhin haawaa [SDB / SDB]
>
> SDB's voice here suits the mood so well, I am compelled to rate the
> Lata version low.
I actually like Lata's version more :). The lilt in her voice makes
the song special. Though it's a slightly unusual song. One Lata song
that I would have loved to hear in SDB's voice is 'Rangeela Re'.
Something tells me that would be great in his voice.
> Hindi: ham bekhudii me.n tum ko pukaare chale gaye [SDB / Rafi / Kala
> Pani]
> Bengali: ghum bhulechhi nijhum e nishithe jege thaaki [SDB / SDB]
Here I agree both are stellar.
With SDB as I mentioned before, his renditions have a light classical
or folk feel which give the tune a completely different flavour. A
couple of my favourite SDB songs that paled out after I heard SDB's
originals
1. Aan milo shyam sanware (Devdas/Geeta-Manna)
Rongila re (SDB).
Rongila Rongila is riveting. I have never been able to view Aan milo
with the same ears
2. Jaane kya tune kahi (Pyaasa/Geeta)
Mono Dilo na Bodhu (SDB)
Again, the light classical feel of the bengali version is very
appealing and radically different. Even though the tunes are the same
the presentation is poles apart. SDB's version has some nice tabla
too. One can actually treat them as two different songs.
3. Jab bhi koi kangana bole (Shaukeen/Kishore)
Nitol Paaye rinik jhink (SDB)
Again both the versions hold a charm that is unique to them.
There are quite a few more in this category but I am tired writing now
:)
Cheers
Ritu
>
> Please help!
Surjit Singh
>
> Surjit Singh wrote:
>
>>Ritu wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Agreed! Veena seemed to have been tailor-made for those roles. Her
>>>face had a regal bearing. But on second thoughts, since the role was
>>
>>I didn't like her teeth.
> As if Nadira's were much better !
>
>
> BTW, can we have a thread as to who among our
> leading ladies had the best teeth ? Probably,
> Jayaprada would be amongst the first three.
>
Of course, Madhu was perfect in every way!
>
>
> Afzal
>
>>>that of a prostitute and not a queen, dignity might not be the main
>>>requirement. By that yardstick, Nadira might have been more realistic.
>>>
>>>-Ritu
>>
>>--
>>Surjit Singh
--
V S Rawat
>
> Surjit Singh wrote:
>
>>Ritu wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Agreed! Veena seemed to have been tailor-made for those roles. Her
>>>face had a regal bearing. But on second thoughts, since the role was
>>
>>I didn't like her teeth.
>
>
>
>
>
> As if Nadira's were much better !
>
>
> BTW, can we have a thread as to who among our
> leading ladies had the best teeth ? Probably,
> Jayaprada would be amongst the first three.
>
and Maushumi Chatterji the last. Unless professor insists on
Veena.
-rawat
Ritu
> UVR <u...@usa.net> wrote in message news:
> > Surma Bhopali wrote:
> > >
> > > The Hindi song beats the Bengali song in this Salil/Lata pair too IMO:
> > >
> > > Hindi: naa jiyaa laage naa [Salil / Lata / Anand]
> > > Bengali: naa bhaalo laage naa [Salil / Lata]
>
> naa man laage naa, right? "bhalo lage naa" is line #4.
>
> >
> > I agree completely here. I only very recently [re]heard the
> > Bengali version. Which song came first, chronologically?
> (snipped)
>
> "naa man laage naa" is a 1969 release. Same year as RDB's
> "Ruby Roy" and Hemant-Salil's "aamaay proshno kore"(Hindi=
> kahin duur jab) and KK's "ekdin pakhi ure"(Hindi=tum bin
> jaun kahan)/flip side="se to elo naa". In fact, 1969 was a
> great resurgence year for Puja (Durga) record sales for HMV;
> this was the first year when the songs came out on 45 rpms
> instead of 78; SDB sang a non-film Bengali song after about
> 10 years. If you look at the Puja-sangiit record catalog of
> 1969 almost every song released that year is a hit.
Interesting bit of titbit. In true KCP mode let me zero in and ask you
which SDB song was this? :) I still have not been able to
chronologically place SDB's bong songs. One can only make guesses
based recording quality and state of his voice.
Also another question, what is the vintage of 'Jibon porer pathik re
bhai'?
>
> Coming back to the song, I like the Bengali version better
> mainly because of Salil's lyrics. He compares man[jiyaa]
> to a river, talks about trying to cross that river to
> meet ever-present "tum", and then towards the end has
> a wonderful play of words "ki habe aar michhe micche beye beye
> ei michhe nao" to convey the futility of his attempts
> to cross the river.
I wonder if we could have a regional ISB. I believe there are some
marathi songs already there. It would be nice if we could have
regional songs. For me atleast that's where the need for lyrics is the
most. If you ever have the free time(and inclination) a translation
would be much welcomed.
Cheers
Ritu
Sambit Basu
> Fascinating topic! This is a comparison that I end up making quite
> often myself. While there are no hard and fast rules, my belief is
> that the song that was made first is better most of them times (esp.
> if the lyrcist is good).
My observation is, in the later part of composers' lives -
when they are almost depleted of their creative prowess,
the hindi songs sounded much better. This I found true for
SC, SDB and RDB (with certain exceptions).
> The second version has a chance of being
> better if the tune is improvised a little to fit the needs of the new
> language. Then the choice of singer makes a difference too. With Salil
> Chowdhury, I see that his tunes do not change much in between
> languages (even though the orchestration does). More often than not
> his Bengali original is much better than the corrosponding Hindi
> version. (though you have a couple of examples of the opposite case
> which I need to check out). Salil Chowdhury, at times keeps the
> ochestration also just the same. It's no wonder then that the original
> song will appeal.
Actually Salil changed the tunes minutely sometimes. He
changed arrangements profusely. One example is Hindi:
"Janeman Janeman" and Bangla: "Prajapati prajapti".
The antaras have subtle differences. The arrangements
are vastly different - and those I think for difference
in moods of the songs.
> With Hemant Kumar I find a 50-50 case. Some Hindi songs are better and
> sometimes the bangla song is better. With SDB, (given my weakness for
> his voice), the bangla songs are in a class by themselves, but by and
> large they are radically different from the Hindi counterparts in
> presentation. Even the tunes not entirely the same in both versions.
Again SDB's later songs, mostly penned by MDB, had
sometimes extremely lame lyrics, though musically
may be as interesting as his earlier songs. His own
singing voice was also showing strains.
But those when transformed into the able voices of Kishore,
Lata or Rafi with powerful lyrics and interesting
arrangements in Hindi, they became improved version of their
Bangla counterpart. This was not the cases of his early
transformations.
> > Hindi: ye ghu.ngharuu, ghu.ngharuu mai.nne baa.ndhe to the [Salil /
> > Asha / Jeevan Jyoti]
> > Bengali: o mor moynaa go [Salil / Lata]
> >
> > I couldn't find a pair with greater contrast than this. While Lata's
> > Bengali song is one of my all time favourites, I will be happy to
> > forget the Hindi version as a Salil song.
>
>
> I think an example to parallel the one above would be
> Dhitang Dhitang Bole (Salil/Hemant)
>
> The Bengali version is a outright winner whilst the Hindi version has
> deservedly sunk without a trace.
There are multiple counter-examples from maestro's later
phase. One such:
Hindi: Kanha Bole na - puchho baar baar
Bangla: Bhalo laage naa
Bangla version is nowhere to be found.
> > From all the examples above it may look like the song that came first
> > is better. But what about this pair where the Hindi and Bengali films
> > were released simultaneously IIRC:
> >
> > Hindi: saaraa pyaar tumhaaraa mai.nne baa.ndh liyaa hai aa.Nchal me.n
> > [Shyamal Mitra / Kishore-Lata / Anandmath]
> > Bengali: aamaar swapna tumi ogo chirodiner saathii [Shyamal Mitra /
> > Kishore-Lata / Anandmath]
>
> I found both the Hindi and Bengali version almost the same. I prefer
> the Hindi version because I understand the language. But by and large
> the tune, orchestration, singing and basic flow of the song do not
> change much.
In this Shyamal Mitra/Kishore Kumar combo discussion,
I want to ask clarification for one thing. In Bangla
version of "Amanush" Kishore sang an unforgettable
"Ki ashaay bNaadhi khelaaghar". I understand in the
same situation in the hindi counterpart, Kishore sang
"dil aisa kisine mera toDa" in a completely different,
and if I may add, forgettable melody. In a
double-version movie, why is this different treatment?
> Between 'Ammaye prashan kare' and 'Kahin door jab din dhal jaaye' I
> prefer Mukesh's version. The warmth and timbre in Mukesh's voice along
> with an inherent pathos make this song special. Hemant's version is
> just OK.
I agree Mukesh version had almost everything you can
expect from such a song (don't forget the interlude),
But Hemanta's version produced a different kind of song
with it's own unique value. It stood as a classic on
its own.
RDB sang some of his own songs in Bangla, which remained
nondescript in Hindi. RDB's Bangla "tomaate aamaate
dekhaa hoyechhilo" is a gem - must be one of his bests
in Bangla. I don't even remember it's Hindi counterpart.
RDB's rendition of "Bolo ki aachhe go" stands much higher,
IMO, over Manna's "ayi sakhi radhike".
- Sambit
joshilay
> [Shyamal Mitra / Kishore-Lata / Anandmath]
> Bengali: aamaar swapna tumi ogo chirodiner saathii [Shyamal Mitra /
> Kishore-Lata / Anandmath]
a rehash of an earlier SJ composition - Mujhko apne gale laga lo (Hamrahi)
Ket...@att.net
> My observation is, in the later part of composers' lives -
> when they are almost depleted of their creative prowess,
> the hindi songs sounded much better. This I found true for
> SC, SDB and RDB (with certain exceptions).
To me the exceptions include, SC's Bengali version of "Aaj koi nahi apna" in
1981 and his "O amar sojoni go" from 1984 which are, IMHO superior to their
Hindi counterparts.
> In this Shyamal Mitra/Kishore Kumar combo discussion,
> I want to ask clarification for one thing. In Bangla
> version of "Amanush" Kishore sang an unforgettable
> "Ki ashaay bNaadhi khelaaghar". I understand in the
> same situation in the hindi counterpart, Kishore sang
> "dil aisa kisine mera toDa" in a completely different,
> and if I may add, forgettable melody. In a
> double-version movie, why is this different treatment?
Interestingly IIRC Kishore won the filmfare award for that same Amanush song,
beating out amongst others RDB's rendition of "Mehbooba".
> RDB sang some of his own songs in Bangla, which remained
> nondescript in Hindi. RDB's Bangla "tomaate aamaate
> dekhaa hoyechhilo" is a gem - must be one of his bests
> in Bangla. I don't even remember it's Hindi counterpart.
"Do naino main, aansoo bhare hai, nindiya kaise samaye" from Khushboo is the
Hindi counterpart.
> RDB's rendition of "Bolo ki aachhe go" stands much higher,
> IMO, over Manna's "ayi sakhi radhike".
To me one of the real RD gems is his "Phire eso anuradha" for the sheer volume
of feeling that RD seems to have poured into the song. Made into Hindi as
"Saajan kahan jaaongi main" from Jaise ko taisa and picturised as a ghost-song
it does its desired effect, but still here is one song in which RD scores over
even Lata, IMHO.
Ketan
Sami Mohammed
> 1. Naushad : Naushad and Hemant Kumar have two unforgettable songs
> 'Chandan ka Palna' and the later 'Insaaf ki dagar pe'. Apart from
> these two songs I can't think of any other time these two artists came
> together. Did they?
There is a Hemant Kumar version of the more popular Manna Dey song
"Bhagat ke bas me hai Bhagwaan..." in the movie Shabab. I'm positive
that the opening verse "Sangeet hai shakti Ishwar ki..." is sung by
Bharat Bhooshan in Hemant Kumar's voice. I think the rest of the song
is also available in his voice.
Sami Mohammed (A Naushad fan)
> Ritu
Ritu
Thanks for the info Sami (and good to see you posting after a long
while :)). Interestingly, the Hemant Kumar CD I mentioned before in
this thread has a completely different version (I suspect the film
version) of 'Chandan ka palna'. This version is a Hemant solo as
opposed to a duet with Lata. Also this version has a prelude which I
have never heard before in any of the other places I have this song.
That prelude is 'Sangeet hai shakti ishwar ki' !
Are you saying the film version of 'Bhagat ke bas mein hai bhagwan' is
by Hemantda?
Cheers
Ritu
Deepak Sabnis
"Ritu" <rc0...@rediffmail.com> wrote in message
news:8777cccd.04040...@posting.google.com...
>'Chandan ka palna'. This version is a Hemant solo as
> opposed to a duet with Lata. Also this version has a prelude which I
> have never heard before in any of the other places I have this song.
> That prelude is 'Sangeet hai shakti ishwar ki' !
>
>
> Are you saying the film version of 'Bhagat ke bas mein hai bhagwan' is
> by Hemantda?
The same identical prelude (Sangeet Hai Shakti ...) is also there to both
the songs (Bhagat ke bas mein... and Chandal Kaa Palanaa..). The first song
is sung by Manna Dey and the second by Hemant.
Deepak
Prithviraj Dasgupta
> >
> > "naa man laage naa" is a 1969 release. Same year as RDB's
> > "Ruby Roy" and Hemant-Salil's "aamaay proshno kore"(Hindi=
> > kahin duur jab) and KK's "ekdin pakhi ure"(Hindi=tum bin
> > jaun kahan)/flip side="se to elo naa". In fact, 1969 was a
> > great resurgence year for Puja (Durga) record sales for HMV;
> > this was the first year when the songs came out on 45 rpms
> > instead of 78; SDB sang a non-film Bengali song after about
> > 10 years. If you look at the Puja-sangiit record catalog of
> > 1969 almost every song released that year is a hit.
>
> Interesting bit of titbit. In true KCP mode let me zero in and ask you
> which SDB song was this? :) I still have not been able to
> chronologically place SDB's bong songs. One can only make guesses
> based recording quality and state of his voice.
I don't have the 1969 catalog with me now, so I am
saying this from memory. SDB sang 4 songs on
a 45 rpm EP. They were: 1) ke jaas re bhaaTi
gaa~N baa_iyaa (sure) 2) gaaner kali surer Durite (almost
sure). I can't rememeber the other two. Probably I
will remember if I look at SDB's 4-pack tape.
SDB was the only singer who had a 4-song 45-record
in the Puja release of 1969. All others had a
2-song 45 rpm. Hemant had a later release in
Dec. '69 for songs MD-ed by another MD. There was some
incident about that MD (Dec. release) being put off
because Hemant decided to pair with Salil for the
Puja number, inspite of that MD contacting Hemant first.
Apparently, there was a 2-song limit per artiste
for Puja release every year (possibly imposed by HMV
sales, and possibly stemming from the fact that till
then only 78 records had been manufactured in India
that had a physical limit of 2 songs/record).
FWIW, SDB's 'barne gandhe chhande' was in 1970. That
record had 3 more songs. 'takdum takdum' was 1971
and as mentioned in many records released that
year, it was "sung on Bangladesh" (meaning part of
proceeds from record sales went towards funds for jawans
involved in the 1971 war). As you must be knowing
it was a rehash of an earlier SDB song with a similar
starting line.
>
> Also another question, what is the vintage of 'Jibon porer pathik re
> bhai'?
1963. Also it's jibanp_u_r (as in jabalpur).
-Prithviraj
joshilay
> RDB sang some of his own songs in Bangla, which remained
> nondescript in Hindi. RDB's Bangla "tomaate aamaate
> dekhaa hoyechhilo" is a gem - must be one of his bests
> in Bangla. I don't even remember it's Hindi counterpart.
> RDB's rendition of "Bolo ki aachhe go" stands much higher,
> IMO, over Manna's "ayi sakhi radhike".
True. Manna's voice is flat compared to modulation in RD's voice. this
is one of those songs i will classify as the one which sounds the best
only in RD's voice. Not even Lata,Asha,Rafi or Kishore can bring in
the same feeling into these numbers
1. Bengali :Modhumash jaye - RD
hindi : Pyar hai ek nishan - Rafi (Mukti)
2. Bengali : se to elo na - kishore
Hindi : ye jindagi kuch bhi sahii - RD(Romance)
3. Bengali : jete jete pathe holoa deri - RD
Hindi : tere bina jindagise shikwa - Lata,Kishore (Aandhi)
4. Bengali : Tomate Aamate - RD
Hindi : do naino mein - Lata (Khushboo)
J.L.A
Arun Iyengar
news:622ae881.04040...@posting.google.com...
> But what about this pair where the Hindi song steals the show despite
> similarity of lyrics:
>
> Hindi: jaa re jaa re u.Da jaa re pa.nchii [Salil / Lata / Maya]
> Bengali: jaa re jaa re u.De jaa re paakhii [Salil / Lata]
>
> The Hindi song beats the Bengali song in this Salil/Lata pair too IMO:
>
> Hindi: naa jiyaa laage naa [Salil / Lata / Anand]
> Bengali: naa bhaalo laage naa [Salil / Lata]
IIRC, it is naa mono laage naa. I agree with you that the hindi versions of
both the above songs are superior. Similarly the Parakh number o o sajanaa
is better than the bengali counterpart naa jaiyyo naa. Lata sounds fresher
in the hindi versions of all the three songs though the Bengali versions
were recorded earlier. However the bengali Lata number "kiije korii"?? is
miles ahead of the the equivalent hindi number by Talat, aa.Nsuu samajh ke
kyuu.n mujhe.
I haven't heard quite a few of the bengali versions that you and others
cite. Are these songs easily available commercially? Any specifics about the
CDs (the non-Lata ones)? In general, any recommendations about must-have
bengali compilations would be great? How is the 8 CD millenium collection?
A
--
(Remove 999 to reply)
Surma Bhopali
>
> RDB sang some of his own songs in Bangla, which remained
> nondescript in Hindi. RDB's Bangla "tomaate aamaate
> dekhaa hoyechhilo" is a gem - must be one of his bests
> in Bangla. I don't even remember it's Hindi counterpart.
It's 'do naino me.n aa.Nsuu.n bhare hai.n' from Khushboo. That's a gem too.
Surma Bhopali
> Surma Bhopali wrote:
>
> > From all the examples above it may look like the song that came first
> > is better. But what about this pair where the Hindi and Bengali films
> > were released simultaneously IIRC:
> >
> > Hindi: saaraa pyaar tumhaaraa mai.nne baa.ndh liyaa hai aa.Nchal me.n
> > [Shyamal Mitra / Kishore-Lata / Anandmath]
> > Bengali: aamaar swapna tumi ogo chirodiner saathii [Shyamal Mitra /
> > Kishore-Lata / Anandmath]
>
> I found both the Hindi and Bengali version almost the same. I prefer
> the Hindi version because I understand the language. But by and large
> the tune, orchestration, singing and basic flow of the song do not
> change much.
>
specific "tunhaare pyaar ko aa.Nchal me.n baa.ndh liyaa" fits to the
tune much better than the generic "he mere jiivan saathii tumhii meraa
sapanaa ho".
> >
> > In Hemant's following two songs, the Bengali songs
> > definitely sound better than the later Hindi versions:
> >
> > Hindi: ye nayan Dare Dare [Hemant / Hemant / Khamoshi]
> > Bengali: ei raat tomaar aamaar [Hemant / Hemant / Deep Jele Jai]
>
> I prefer 'Yeh nayan dare dare'
>
To me 'ei raat tomaar aamaar' is classic.
>
> Between 'Ammaye prashan kare' and 'Kahin door jab din dhal jaaye' I
> prefer Mukesh's version. The warmth and timbre in Mukesh's voice along
> with an inherent pathos make this song special. Hemant's version is
> just OK.
>
I agree with your view on 'kahii.n duur jab'. However, I can't say
'just OK' to the Hemant's Bengali version. In fact because of the
'lyrics' factor, it feels a little better sometimes. I feel a lot of
lyrics in the Hindi song does not follow the flow of the tune. The
Bengali version has a perfectly flowing lyrics that suits the mood set
by the tune very well.
BTW, this song is a good example of how to make successful songs in
different languages using the same tune, which is a strength of SDB
and RDB perhaps. The more you break the continuity of voice, the
better it sounds in Hindi IMO. While you have in Bengali:
aamaay~prashna~kare~niil~dhrubataaraa
aar~kata~kaal~aamii raba~dishaahaaraa
the Hindi song goes like:
kahii.n duur jab~din dhal jaaye
saa.Njh kii~dulhan badan~churaaye
>
> >
> > One important type of ?flesh' is the lyrics ? how seamlessly it fits
> > into the tune. That could be the reason why the Bengali song (written
> > by Salil himself) below feels much much sweeter than the Hindi one:
> >
> > Hindi: aahaa rimjhim ke ye pyaare pyaare giit liye [Salil / Talat]
> > Bengali: aahaa oi aa.Nkaa baa.Nkaa je path jaay suduure [Salil /
> > Shyamal]
> >
>
> Very true :). I like the sound of the words in the Bengali version.
> They are very bright. Though the Hindi version is also nice
>
One fantastic Salil composition along similar lines is "duur nay
beshii duur oi saajaano saajaano... jaak jaa gechhe taa jaak" sung by
Shyamal Mitra. Unfortunately it doesn't have a Hindi sibling AFAIK.
> >
> > Hindi: merii bhiigii bhiigii sii [RDB / Kishore / Anamika]
> > Bengali: mane pare ##Ruby Ray## [RDB / RDB]
>
> I prefer 'Mone Pore Ruby Ray' much more to 'Meri Bheegi Bheegi si'.
> There was something unusual in Pancham's voice that adds a unique
> energy to the song. I find the Hindi version one more of those
> overrated Kishore-RDB songs :)
>
Well, 'mone pare Runy Ray' is a landmark song in Bengali and therefore
stands tall against 'merii bhiibii bhiigii sii' when compared
one-to-one. But individually 'merii bhiigii bhiigii sii' is not bad
IMO.
>
>
> > Hindi: khaa_ii hai re hamane qasam [SDB / Lata / Talash]
> > Bengali: shono go dakhin haawaa [SDB / SDB]
> >
> > SDB's voice here suits the mood so well, I am compelled to rate the
> > Lata version low.
>
> I actually like Lata's version more :). The lilt in her voice makes
> the song special. Though it's a slightly unusual song. One Lata song
To me SDB version above is superior as also in the following pair:
Hindi: sun rii pawan pawan purvaiyaa [SDB / Lata / Anurag]
Bengali: ke jaash re [SDB / SDB]
Surma Bhopali
> > Pani]
> > Bengali: ghum bhulechhi nijhum e nishithe jege thaaki [SDB / SDB]
>
> have done a great job in writing the lyrics, with the mukha.Daa sounding
> quite similar in both languages.
>
SDB Bengali version is 1957 whereas Kala Pani was released in 1958 if
I am not wrong. The two songs then are not much separated
chronologically.
rkusenet
"Ritu" <rc0...@rediffmail.com> wrote
> I found both the Hindi and Bengali version almost the same. I prefer
> the Hindi version because I understand the language. But by and large
> the tune, orchestration, singing and basic flow of the song do not
> change much.
IMO 2 songs of the Bong version of Barsaat Ke Ek Raat (Amithab-Rahkee) songs
sounded much better. They are : "apne pyaar ke" and "hai woh pardesi". I heard
the bong version 5 years after the movie was released and took an instant
liking. In contrast I found the hindi version insipid. May be the sweetness
of the language made the difference.
Ritu
> Ritu wrote:
>
> > Fascinating topic! This is a comparison that I end up making quite
> > often myself. While there are no hard and fast rules, my belief is
> > that the song that was made first is better most of them times (esp.
> > if the lyrcist is good).
>
> My observation is, in the later part of composers' lives -
> when they are almost depleted of their creative prowess,
> the hindi songs sounded much better. This I found true for
> SC, SDB and RDB (with certain exceptions).
That's an interesting observation. I wonder how 'depletion of creative
prowess' selectively impacts the Bengali work. I guess in case of SDB
and RDB it could be understood to the extent that they sang their own
songs in Bangla. So if their voice was not in peak form, the
compositions would suffer. But I wonder how language would make a
difference in the case of Salil.
>
>
> Actually Salil changed the tunes minutely sometimes. He
> changed arrangements profusely. One example is Hindi:
> "Janeman Janeman" and Bangla: "Prajapati prajapti".
> The antaras have subtle differences. The arrangements
> are vastly different - and those I think for difference
> in moods of the songs.
>
I guess it depends a great degree on personal taste. For me if the
tune(+/singer) does not change then the song sounds more or less the
same. I notice vocals much more than orchestration. Which is why in
most Salil-Lata songs I don't find much difference between the two
languages.
Adding onto a list of equally good songs in both languages by Salil,
let me add 'Duranto gurnir' by Hemant. While the Bengali version is
got all the qualities of a chart-buster, the Hindi version is also
very peppy and bright and is one of my favourite Mukesh-Lata duets.
>
> > With Hemant Kumar I find a 50-50 case. Some Hindi songs are better and
> > sometimes the bangla song is better. With SDB, (given my weakness for
> > his voice), the bangla songs are in a class by themselves, but by and
> > large they are radically different from the Hindi counterparts in
> > presentation. Even the tunes not entirely the same in both versions.
>
> Again SDB's later songs, mostly penned by MDB, had
> sometimes extremely lame lyrics, though musically
> may be as interesting as his earlier songs. His own
> singing voice was also showing strains.
I guess it's here when someone like you can make a true evaluation.
Because at the end of the day the maximum I can do is judge the lyrics
for their phonetic value. However, even phonetically I know what you
mean. The Meera Dev Burman version of 'Takdum Takdum Baaje' sounds
exactly as you charecterised it.. lame. The original version had some
fantastic dhol also which is missing in this 70s version. So there is
surely a lot of watering down.
However, I do find a lot of SDB's later day (I assume) songs like
'Nitol Paaye rinik jhinik', 'Tumi eshechille porashu', 'Banshi shune
aar' etc. quite interesing. Also SDB's voice did not change
drastically over the years. (Even in his youth he never did sound like
a strapping young lad :)). If 'Ke jaash ke' is early 70s then there is
not much differance from a 'Mono Dilo na bondhu'.
>
> But those when transformed into the able voices of Kishore,
> Lata or Rafi with powerful lyrics and interesting
> arrangements in Hindi, they became improved version of their
> Bangla counterpart. This was not the cases of his early
> transformations.
Again, I feel some of SDB's later day transformations in Hindi were
not as good as the Bangla songs. Eg. 'Na amare shashi cheyo na' or
'Banshi shune aar kaaj nahin'. I would put it at 50-50. Though his 50s
songs (that is one's with the Hindi version released in the 50s) all
were equally good in both languages. I assume that's the difference
between Majrooh/Sahir/Shailendra and Anand Bakshi!
>
> There are multiple counter-examples from maestro's later
> phase. One such:
>
> Hindi: Kanha Bole na - puchho baar baar
> Bangla: Bhalo laage naa
>
> Bangla version is nowhere to be found.
This is beautiful song. I had forgotton about it completely. What are
the p-stats of the song? Lyrics.. Yogesh?
Ritu
Ritu
chirodiner saathii [Shyamal Mitra /
> > > Kishore-Lata / Anandmath]
> >
> > I found both the Hindi and Bengali version almost the same. I prefer
> > the Hindi version because I understand the language. But by and large
> > the tune, orchestration, singing and basic flow of the song do not
> > change much.
> >
> I think it's the lyrics which makes the Hindi version better. The
> specific "tunhaare pyaar ko aa.Nchal me.n baa.ndh liyaa" fits to the
> tune much better than the generic "he mere jiivan saathii tumhii meraa
> sapanaa ho".
Yes.. as I said before, that's a truer evaluation. A lot of times when
it's the same singer and same tune and the Hindi version has
outstanding lyrics then i end up liking the Hindi version more because
I understand it completely. E.g. Janam se banjara hoon bandhu (here
apart from the meaning, I also prefer the Hindi version from a purely
phonetic point of view). The same for 'Wahan kaun hai tera' and 'Door
kon porabashe'.
>
> > >
> > > In Hemant's following two songs, the Bengali songs
> > > definitely sound better than the later Hindi versions:
> > >
> > > Hindi: ye nayan Dare Dare [Hemant / Hemant / Khamoshi]
> > > Bengali: ei raat tomaar aamaar [Hemant / Hemant / Deep Jele Jai]
> >
> > I prefer 'Yeh nayan dare dare'
> >
> To me 'ei raat tomaar aamaar' is classic.
Doesn't 'ei raat tomaar aamaar' have some interlude pieces that are
similiar to 'Tum pukar lo'? I always get confused.
>
> >
> > Between 'Ammaye prashan kare' and 'Kahin door jab din dhal jaaye' I
> > prefer Mukesh's version. The warmth and timbre in Mukesh's voice along
> > with an inherent pathos make this song special. Hemant's version is
> > just OK.
> >
> I agree with your view on 'kahii.n duur jab'. However, I can't say
> 'just OK' to the Hemant's Bengali version. In fact because of the
> 'lyrics' factor, it feels a little better sometimes. I feel a lot of
> lyrics in the Hindi song does not follow the flow of the tune. The
> Bengali version has a perfectly flowing lyrics that suits the mood set
> by the tune very well.
You know sometimes that slightly awkward fit in the lyrics (just
slightly not overtly) actually is attractive. It adds an unusual
energy to the song which keeps familiarity at the bay. I actually like
that :)!
>
> BTW, this song is a good example of how to make successful songs in
> different languages using the same tune, which is a strength of SDB
> and RDB perhaps. The more you break the continuity of voice, the
> better it sounds in Hindi IMO. While you have in Bengali:
>
> aamaay~prashna~kare~niil~dhrubataaraa
> aar~kata~kaal~aamii raba~dishaahaaraa
>
> the Hindi song goes like:
> kahii.n duur jab~din dhal jaaye
> saa.Njh kii~dulhan badan~churaaye
> >
Actually this pausing and continuity business is an art by itself. You
can seperate the wheat from the chaff so as to say by simply observing
how a performer (and music director) nuances the song. To me these
little things provide the maximum enjoyment in a piece.
> One fantastic Salil composition along similar lines is "duur nay
> beshii duur oi saajaano saajaano... jaak jaa gechhe taa jaak" sung by
> Shyamal Mitra. Unfortunately it doesn't have a Hindi sibling AFAIK.
Thank you, I shall try and get hold of this one too. I adore Salil's
peppy songs in Bengali. They are very bright and foot-tapping.
>
> > >
> > > Hindi: merii bhiigii bhiigii sii [RDB / Kishore / Anamika]
> > > Bengali: mane pare ##Ruby Ray## [RDB / RDB]
> >
> > I prefer 'Mone Pore Ruby Ray' much more to 'Meri Bheegi Bheegi si'.
> > There was something unusual in Pancham's voice that adds a unique
> > energy to the song. I find the Hindi version one more of those
> > overrated Kishore-RDB songs :)
> >
> Well, 'mone pare Runy Ray' is a landmark song in Bengali and therefore
> stands tall against 'merii bhiibii bhiigii sii' when compared
> one-to-one. But individually 'merii bhiigii bhiigii sii' is not bad
> IMO.
> >
Why is 'Mone pare Ruby Ray' a landmark song? Is this the first song
RDB sang or something or just because it was very popular.
> >
> > > Hindi: khaa_ii hai re hamane qasam [SDB / Lata / Talash]
> > > Bengali: shono go dakhin haawaa [SDB / SDB]
> > >
> > > SDB's voice here suits the mood so well, I am compelled to rate the
> > > Lata version low.
> >
> > I actually like Lata's version more :). The lilt in her voice makes
> > the song special. Though it's a slightly unusual song. One Lata song
>
> To me SDB version above is superior as also in the following pair:
> Hindi: sun rii pawan pawan purvaiyaa [SDB / Lata / Anurag]
> Bengali: ke jaash re [SDB / SDB]
I agree for the other two. Particularly 'Sun ri pawan' which is quite
insipid in Hindi. I used to like 'Neend Churaye' a lot but SDB's
version has much more vibrance.
What about Manna Dey? He does not seem to be mentioned here much. Did
he have some memorable transformations?
Cheers
Ritu
Ritu
chirodiner saathii [Shyamal Mitra /
> > > Kishore-Lata / Anandmath]
> >
> > I found both the Hindi and Bengali version almost the same. I prefer
> > the Hindi version because I understand the language. But by and large
> > the tune, orchestration, singing and basic flow of the song do not
> > change much.
> >
> I think it's the lyrics which makes the Hindi version better. The
> specific "tunhaare pyaar ko aa.Nchal me.n baa.ndh liyaa" fits to the
> tune much better than the generic "he mere jiivan saathii tumhii meraa
> sapanaa ho".
Yes.. as I said before, that's a truer evaluation. A lot of times when
it's the same singer and same tune and the Hindi version has
outstanding lyrics then i end up liking the Hindi version more because
I understand it completely. E.g. Janam se banjara hoon bandhu (here
apart from the meaning, I also prefer the Hindi version from a purely
phonetic point of view). The same for 'Wahan kaun hai tera' and 'Door
kon porabashe'.
>
> > >
> > > In Hemant's following two songs, the Bengali songs
> > > definitely sound better than the later Hindi versions:
> > >
> > > Hindi: ye nayan Dare Dare [Hemant / Hemant / Khamoshi]
> > > Bengali: ei raat tomaar aamaar [Hemant / Hemant / Deep Jele Jai]
> >
> > I prefer 'Yeh nayan dare dare'
> >
> To me 'ei raat tomaar aamaar' is classic.
Doesn't 'ei raat tomaar aamaar' have some interlude pieces that are
similiar to 'Tum pukar lo'? I always get confused.
>
> >
> > Between 'Ammaye prashan kare' and 'Kahin door jab din dhal jaaye' I
> > prefer Mukesh's version. The warmth and timbre in Mukesh's voice along
> > with an inherent pathos make this song special. Hemant's version is
> > just OK.
> >
> I agree with your view on 'kahii.n duur jab'. However, I can't say
> 'just OK' to the Hemant's Bengali version. In fact because of the
> 'lyrics' factor, it feels a little better sometimes. I feel a lot of
> lyrics in the Hindi song does not follow the flow of the tune. The
> Bengali version has a perfectly flowing lyrics that suits the mood set
> by the tune very well.
You know sometimes that slightly awkward fit in the lyrics (just
slightly not overtly) actually is attractive. It adds an unusual
energy to the song which keeps familiarity at the bay. I actually like
that :)!
>
> BTW, this song is a good example of how to make successful songs in
> different languages using the same tune, which is a strength of SDB
> and RDB perhaps. The more you break the continuity of voice, the
> better it sounds in Hindi IMO. While you have in Bengali:
>
> aamaay~prashna~kare~niil~dhrubataaraa
> aar~kata~kaal~aamii raba~dishaahaaraa
>
> the Hindi song goes like:
> kahii.n duur jab~din dhal jaaye
> saa.Njh kii~dulhan badan~churaaye
> >
Actually this pausing and continuity business is an art by itself. You
can seperate the wheat from the chaff so as to say by simply observing
how a performer (and music director) nuances the song. To me these
little things provide the maximum enjoyment in a piece.
> One fantastic Salil composition along similar lines is "duur nay
> beshii duur oi saajaano saajaano... jaak jaa gechhe taa jaak" sung by
> Shyamal Mitra. Unfortunately it doesn't have a Hindi sibling AFAIK.
Thank you, I shall try and get hold of this one too. I adore Salil's
peppy songs in Bengali. They are very bright and foot-tapping.
>
> > >
> > > Hindi: merii bhiigii bhiigii sii [RDB / Kishore / Anamika]
> > > Bengali: mane pare ##Ruby Ray## [RDB / RDB]
> >
> > I prefer 'Mone Pore Ruby Ray' much more to 'Meri Bheegi Bheegi si'.
> > There was something unusual in Pancham's voice that adds a unique
> > energy to the song. I find the Hindi version one more of those
> > overrated Kishore-RDB songs :)
> >
> Well, 'mone pare Runy Ray' is a landmark song in Bengali and therefore
> stands tall against 'merii bhiibii bhiigii sii' when compared
> one-to-one. But individually 'merii bhiigii bhiigii sii' is not bad
> IMO.
> >
Why is 'Mone pare Ruby Ray' a landmark song? Is this the first song
RDB sang or something or just because it was very popular.
> >
> > > Hindi: khaa_ii hai re hamane qasam [SDB / Lata / Talash]
> > > Bengali: shono go dakhin haawaa [SDB / SDB]
> > >
> > > SDB's voice here suits the mood so well, I am compelled to rate the
> > > Lata version low.
> >
> > I actually like Lata's version more :). The lilt in her voice makes
> > the song special. Though it's a slightly unusual song. One Lata song
>
> To me SDB version above is superior as also in the following pair:
> Hindi: sun rii pawan pawan purvaiyaa [SDB / Lata / Anurag]
> Bengali: ke jaash re [SDB / SDB]
I agree for the other two. Particularly 'Sun ri pawan' which is quite
Prithviraj Dasgupta
(snipped)
> However, I do find a lot of SDB's later day (I assume) songs like
> 'Nitol Paaye rinik jhinik', 'Tumi eshechille porashu', 'Banshi shune
> aar' etc. quite interesing.
(snipped)
The first two songs above are early 70s release. Chronologically,
the last one (banshi shune aar) can't be grouped with the other
two as it was released almost 10 years ago (late 50s or early
60s). It featured on a great Bengali LP called "The Incomparable SDB"
a 1963 release, IIRC.
-Prithviraj
Surma Bhopali
Surma Bhopali wrote:
> > > > Kishore-Lata / Anandmath]
> > >
> > > I found both the Hindi and Bengali version almost the same. I prefer
> > > the Hindi version because I understand the language. But by and large
> > > the tune, orchestration, singing and basic flow of the song do not
> > > change much.
> > >
> > I think it's the lyrics which makes the Hindi version better. The
> > specific "tunhaare pyaar ko aa.Nchal me.n baa.ndh liyaa" fits to the
> > tune much better than the generic "he mere jiivan saathii tumhii meraa
> > sapanaa ho".
>
> Yes.. as I said before, that's a truer evaluation. A lot of times when
> it's the same singer and same tune and the Hindi version has
> outstanding lyrics then i end up liking the Hindi version more because
> I understand it completely. E.g. Janam se banjara hoon bandhu (here
> apart from the meaning, I also prefer the Hindi version from a purely
> phonetic point of view). The same for 'Wahan kaun hai tera' and 'Door
> kon porabashe'.
>
kon parabaashe" is superb as a complete folk song... the way "bandhu
re... kabe aa_ibaa re" has been rendered, it takes me to the village I
was born in. It's just too personal for me. Feels like someone from my
village is singing at the end of my India visit... "duur kisii pravaas
me.n tum chale jaaoge... chale jaaoge... tum chale jaaoge... dost...
phir kab aaoge"
Surma Bhopali
Surma Bhopali wrote:
>
> > beshii duur oi saajaano saajaano... jaak jaa gechhe taa jaak" sung by
> > Shyamal Mitra. Unfortunately it doesn't have a Hindi sibling AFAIK.
>
> Thank you, I shall try and get hold of this one too. I adore Salil's
> peppy songs in Bengali. They are very bright and foot-tapping.
>
can find it on many selective Salil collections.
> > > I prefer 'Mone Pore Ruby Ray' much more to 'Meri Bheegi Bheegi si'.
> > > There was something unusual in Pancham's voice that adds a unique
> > > energy to the song. I find the Hindi version one more of those
> > > overrated Kishore-RDB songs :)
> > >
> > Well, 'mone pare Runy Ray' is a landmark song in Bengali and therefore
> > stands tall against 'merii bhiibii bhiigii sii' when compared
> > one-to-one. But individually 'merii bhiigii bhiigii sii' is not bad
> > IMO.
> > >
>
> Why is 'Mone pare Ruby Ray' a landmark song? Is this the first song
> RDB sang or something or just because it was very popular.
>
I have a feeling if you wake a person up from sleep and ask "tell me
one Bengali song in RDB's voice", he is most likely to cite this song.
That's why I called it a landmark song.
>
> What about Manna Dey? He does not seem to be mentioned here much. Did
> he have some memorable transformations?
>
You are right Manna Dey is the odd one out in this discussion. The
reason IMO - majority of his Bengali works are with composers who
didn't venture into (AFAIK) composing for HFM. This includes Nachiketa
Ghosh, Sudhin Dasgupta and he himself. Because his name popped up, I
can't help mentioning that I miss Nachiketa Ghosh very much in HFM. He
is one of my favorite Bengali composers besides the ones commonly
known to the hindi world.
Sambit Basu
> sambi...@hotmail.com (Sambit Basu) wrote in message news:<1df3ae06.0404...@posting.google.com>...
> > My observation is, in the later part of composers' lives -
> > when they are almost depleted of their creative prowess,
> > the hindi songs sounded much better. This I found true for
> > SC, SDB and RDB (with certain exceptions).
>
> That's an interesting observation. I wonder how 'depletion of creative
> prowess' selectively impacts the Bengali work. I guess in case of SDB
> and RDB it could be understood to the extent that they sang their own
> songs in Bangla. So if their voice was not in peak form, the
> compositions would suffer. But I wonder how language would make a
> difference in the case of Salil.
It's an observation, I really don't know why this
happened (or if this observation will stand
under closer scrutiny). If this is really true, then
my conjecture would be like the following:
SC in last phase of his life didn't get to do much
hindi composition. So we are talking about Bangla
songs here. And for the Bangla songs which have a Hindi
counterpart, the hindi songs are much older. For example,
in 1988 Antara Chowdhury recorded "ekdin sandhyaay
jhirijhiri barshaay" which is a rehash of Lata-Hemanta
"jhirjhirjhirjhir badaria barase". Antara is a fine
singer, but nowhere near Lata in her prime. So that
makes a difference. SC in those days were working with
Saikat Mitra, Haimanti Shukla, Arundhati HolmChowdhury,
Shibaji Bandopadhyay ... they all are second rung
singers if compared Lata, Hemanta, Manna, Kishore, Rafi,
Asha, Talat - even Sabita.
Even "haal chaal Thik Thaak hay" had been rehashed in
Hemanta's tired voice in (around) 1981. Or Kishore's
"koi hota jisko aapnaa" transformed into Hemanta's
"jete jete pathe" around the same time.
So to make my point: the "depletion of creative
prowess" was responsible for not adapting the
hindi tunes to suit this not-so-able or tired
voices with interesting lyrics and/or arrangements
and/or adding choir part (one exception - Lata's
"Champabaati kanya" has a great choir part) or
vocal refrains.
> However, I do find a lot of SDB's later day (I assume) songs like
> 'Nitol Paaye rinik jhinik', 'Tumi eshechille porashu', 'Banshi shune
> aar' etc. quite interesing. Also SDB's voice did not change
> drastically over the years. (Even in his youth he never did sound like
> a strapping young lad :)). If 'Ke jaash ke' is early 70s then there is
> not much differance from a 'Mono Dilo na bondhu'.
This must be that "personal liking" thing. "Banshi shune"
is an older song, so cannot be compared with the others
here. But as for 'Tumi eshechhile porshu', 'ke jaash
re' or 'Nitol Paaye rinik jhinik', they do not interest
me that much.
> > There are multiple counter-examples from maestro's later
> > phase. One such:
> >
> > Hindi: Kanha Bole na - puchho baar baar
> > Bangla: Bhalo laage naa
> >
> > Bangla version is nowhere to be found.
>
> This is beautiful song. I had forgotton about it completely. What are
> the p-stats of the song? Lyrics.. Yogesh?
Singer: Lata Mangeshkar & Manna Dey
Lyrics: Jan Nisar Akhtar
Music: Salil Chaowdhury
Film: Sangat
- Sambit
Sambit Basu
> Phonetically you may like "wahaa.n kaun hai teraa" better, but "duur
> kon parabaashe" is superb as a complete folk song...
If you notice closely, this song is a folk simulation
(or what Hemanga Biswas, Debabrata Biswas, Nirmalendu
Chowdhury et al. termed as "folko-modern"), not really
a complete folk as you described it. The antaras
are recycled version of antara of SDB's earlier song
"bodhu go ei madhumaash". Just compare this song's
aamaar e prem dhuper surabhi jena
jwalite jaane, jwalaate jaane na kena !
with "duur kon parabaase"'s antara like
padmapaataay raater shishira sama
jaaibe shukaaye haay re piriti mama - etc.
I do not know whether these parts were originally
influenced by any folk (I doubt it because the
transpose that happens in the second line is very
non-folk like), bacause the melody of the first
line appears in another MD's music. Rabin
Chattapadhyay in Deya-Neya's "e gaaner prajapati"
uses same notes and same scanning in the antara:
aamaar e gaan sunil sagara kuule ...
- Sambit
Ashok
>
>You are right Manna Dey is the odd one out in this discussion. The
>reason IMO - majority of his Bengali works are with composers who
>didn't venture into (AFAIK) composing for HFM. This includes Nachiketa
>Ghosh, Sudhin Dasgupta and he himself.
Can you say more about Manna Dey as a music director in
Bangla?
Just the couple of his compostions that I have heard in
Hindi suggest that he might have been a better music director
than singer!
Ashok
Ritu
> > Interesting bit of titbit. In true KCP mode let me zero in and ask you
> > which SDB song was this? :) I still have not been able to
> > chronologically place SDB's bong songs. One can only make guesses
> > based recording quality and state of his voice.
>
> I don't have the 1969 catalog with me now, so I am
> saying this from memory. SDB sang 4 songs on
> a 45 rpm EP. They were: 1) ke jaas re bhaaTi
> gaa~N baa_iyaa (sure) 2) gaaner kali surer Durite (almost
> sure). I can't rememeber the other two. Probably I
> will remember if I look at SDB's 4-pack tape.
I'm sorry I saw this post just now. Thanks for the information PDG. If
you get a chance sometime could you also tell me how many songs are
there in this 4 pack tape set? Also are these his songs from HMV or
Inreco? I ask because I want to know how many songs I am missing in my
collection. From the HMV side I have 2 cassettes (with 2 or 3
repetitions) and that's all I asked a friend who had gone to Calcutta
to get me SDB and he got the same songs.
There is more stuff from his earlier stint with INRECO which includes
his folk songs and his classical songs. Does your 4 pack set include
these?
>
> SDB was the only singer who had a 4-song 45-record
> in the Puja release of 1969. All others had a
> 2-song 45 rpm. Hemant had a later release in
> Dec. '69 for songs MD-ed by another MD. There was some
> incident about that MD (Dec. release) being put off
> because Hemant decided to pair with Salil for the
> Puja number, inspite of that MD contacting Hemant first.
> Apparently, there was a 2-song limit per artiste
> for Puja release every year (possibly imposed by HMV
> sales, and possibly stemming from the fact that till
> then only 78 records had been manufactured in India
> that had a physical limit of 2 songs/record).
Thanks for the info.
>
> FWIW, SDB's 'barne gandhe chhande' was in 1970. That
> record had 3 more songs. 'takdum takdum' was 1971
> and as mentioned in many records released that
> year, it was "sung on Bangladesh" (meaning part of
> proceeds from record sales went towards funds for jawans
> involved in the 1971 war). As you must be knowing
> it was a rehash of an earlier SDB song with a similar
> starting line.
I guess then, apart from a couple of songs here and there, most of
SDB's songs generally have the same vintage in Hindi and Bangla ?
(esp. post 50s)
Pre 50s he seemed to have recycled his Bangla songs enmasse. For
instance, most of the songs I have heard from Shikari are recycled.
>
> >
> > Also another question, what is the vintage of 'Jibon porer pathik re
> > bhai'?
>
> 1963. Also it's jibanp_u_r (as in jabalpur).
Thanks... To me it seems to translate to 'Saar jeeven pathik raha hoon
re bhai' or 'I have been a traveller all my life'.. is that right?
What is your take of the Bangla version over the Hindi version in
terms of the lyrics?
Regards
Ritu
>
> -Prithviraj
Ritu
>
> So to make my point: the "depletion of creative
> prowess" was responsible for not adapting the
> hindi tunes to suit this not-so-able or tired
> voices with interesting lyrics and/or arrangements
> and/or adding choir part (one exception - Lata's
> "Champabaati kanya" has a great choir part) or
> vocal refrains.
OK.. I get you now. If the Hindi version was of earlier vintage then
one can understand it being superior (it's not me it's 30s mafia that
is speaking :)). I had heard a nice light classical song in Antara's
voice and I had quite liked it. Actually sometimes lesser singers can
also sound good if utilised well. Salil did utilise Mukesh very well
right till the end. Infact in the 70s I find Mukesh quite off-colour
unless he's singing for Salil Chowdhury. I would suspect Salil would
be responsile for more than 70% of the superior Mukesh output in the
70s.
Also I never knew 'Champavati tu aaja' is Salil (The singer is Kishore
right?). Another peppy song from him. I should make a list of these
songs and compile them. They are great uppers.
Regards
Ritu